Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:28 AM - Re: Re: Alex & the Rudder Factory (kevinbonds)
2. 03:21 AM - Zenith 601XL Flight Simulator (Jim Pellien)
3. 04:43 AM - Re: Zenith 601XL Flight Simulator (Paul Mulwitz)
4. 07:38 AM - Re: Oshkosh Lodging (B Johnson)
5. 08:32 AM - Rivet Tools (Alex Rodriguez, MD)
6. 09:02 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Graham Kirby)
7. 09:08 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Robert Schoenberger)
8. 09:15 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
9. 09:22 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Lance Gingell)
10. 09:49 AM - C-IDUS cross-country (Trevor Page)
11. 10:05 AM - Re: C-IDUS cross-country (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
12. 10:07 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Paul Mulwitz)
13. 10:11 AM - Re: rivet tools (Zed Smith)
14. 10:31 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Kent Brown)
15. 10:36 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Kent Brown)
16. 11:09 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
17. 11:49 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Kent Brown)
18. 12:33 PM - Re: C-IDUS cross-country (Larry McFarland)
19. 12:40 PM - Re: Rivet Tools ()
20. 12:53 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (jnbolding1)
21. 12:54 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Air vs. Electric Tools) (N5SL)
22. 01:08 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
23. 01:18 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Clyde Barcus)
24. 01:18 PM - pissshh-bonk (Zed Smith)
25. 01:23 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
26. 01:46 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
27. 01:47 PM - Re: Last Call For Builders dinner RSVP (N5SL)
28. 01:47 PM - Re: Last Call For Builders dinner RSVP (N5SL)
29. 01:50 PM - Re: [ Johann G. Johannsson ] (Tebenkof@aol.com)
30. 02:14 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (VideoFlyer@aol.com)
31. 03:55 PM - Re: Oshkosh Lodging (David Alberti)
32. 04:28 PM - Lodging (Neitzel)
33. 04:49 PM - Not Getting Daily Postings (Dave VanLanen)
34. 05:46 PM - Re: Oshkosh Lodging (WAYNE BEATTIE)
35. 07:58 PM - Re: Last Call For Builders dinner RSVP (Jim Pellien)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Alex & the Rudder Factory |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Hey guys
I'll be right back. I've got to run over to the pharmacist and have him read
Alex's emails to me :)
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Rodriguez, MD [mailto:proteus@mac.com]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder Factory
Hi Kevin,
I guess my signature is just asking for trouble. :)
I can tell this list is going to be great fun though. Take care,
Alex
On Jul 19, 2005, at 2:40 PM, kevinbonds wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds"
> <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
>
> So that's Workshop . . . yes. Admit you are a doctor or lawyer on
> this list
> . . .no.
>
> Kevin Bonds
>
> Nashville TN
>
> 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
>
> Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
>
>
> do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> VideoFlyer@aol.com
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder Factory
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com
>
> Yes! Do the workshop! I highly recommend it.
>
> Dave
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Zenith 601XL Flight Simulator |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Pellien" <jim@pellien.com>
I downloaded the 601XL flight simulator from the Zenith site. It works well
except that it has no airspeed indicator. Does somebody know where I can
get an improved version with an airspeed indicator.
Jim
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith 601XL Flight Simulator |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
At 03:18 AM 7/20/2005, you wrote:
>I downloaded the 601XL flight simulator from the Zenith site. It works well
>except that it has no airspeed indicator. Does somebody know where I can
>get an improved version with an airspeed indicator.
>
>
>Jim
I also downloaded the simulator model from the ZAC site, and it works
fine for me.
If you look at the included instructions there is some complication
with the instruments you need to deal with. I don't remember exactly
what was required, but I followed the instructions and it worked.
Also, I am using the latest version of the microsoft flight simulator
(2004) which might have an impact.
Good luck,
Paul
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 4
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" <bjohnson@satx.rr.com>
Scott, the EAA claims they NEVER run out of space for "car camping" right on
the grounds. That's were I'll be for 2 or 3 days....
http://airventure.org/2005/planning/camp_scholler_guidelines.html
Just in case you don't get a response from someone with
Air-conditioning......
Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cory Emberson
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Oshkosh Lodging
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cory Emberson" <bootless@earthlink.net>
Scott,
I wrote you an offline reply with a contact...
Best, Cory
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N5SL
Subject: Zenith-List: Oshkosh Lodging
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Hi guys:
I'm going to make my first trip to Oshkosh AirVenture this year and I'm
looking for a place to stay for one night. I'm going to try to drive 8
hours, spend 1/2 day, find a place to sleep, look around the second day and
drive 8 hours home. It's all the time I have and I know I won't see
everything but that's the way it is.
At this point I have found a Holiday Inn over an hour away that has a room.
Does anybody have a room (or a camping spot?) closer that would like to
share the expense of the room? I'm not picky and just need one night. I'm
somewhat flexible on the night - either Monday or Tuesday night. (Sorry
Mark and David, I can't make the ZAC dinner like I had hoped).
Thanks in advance for your help,
Scott Laughlin
601XL / Corvair
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
Waiting on Engine Parts
---------------------------------
--
--
Message 5
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Alex Rodriguez, MD" <proteus@mac.com>
I was just about to ask the list if many people have invested in air
tools for riveting when I saw this post by Paul. In preparing my budget
for tools, it seems that adding $300-$500 would make sense to purchase
an air compressor, fittings and air tools. Seems to me that even for
blind rivets having air tools would be more convenient. But I didn't
know it was a requirement.
Does anyone feel that air tools for blind riveting is a requirement
rather than a convienence? One of the decision points on this kit for
me was not having the noise issue since I like to work late.
Thanks for your comments,
Alex
On Jul 20, 2005, at 1:42 AM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
> I wonder how many builders of the 601 XL have the version that
> requires kit builders to set solid rivets - in spite of all the
> promises this was not the case. Any comments from the crowd?
>
> Paul
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Graham Kirby" <graham@601hd.com>
Alex,
So after we have finished off one can of worms it must be time to open
another :)
There is a lot of discussion in the archives on the pros/cons of air tools.
I'll foolishly try to summarize:
1) Whether to use an air drill or not is split 50/50. Some claim that a
quality lightweight air drill makes better holes and is easier to use.
Others prefer the mobility of battery powered drills (be sure to find a fast
one)
2) A majority of builders use a pneumatic rivet puller. ZAC sells one,
Harbor freight occasionally have a great offer on one for about $39. It
takes some getting used to but it is probably my favorite tool of them all.
Popeye may not need one but there are a lot of rivets to pull!
3) Oil-less compressors are very noisy. It may not be socially acceptable
to use one late in the evening. If I did it againg I would pay a little
more to get one of the quieter ones.
4) Being able to use air to blow away dust and shavings is a great thing for
keeping the workplace clean. It helps reduce the number of accidental
scratches you'll get on the skins.
Graham
601HD
I was just about to ask the list if many people have invested in air
tools for riveting when I saw this post by Paul. In preparing my budget
for tools, it seems that adding $300-$500 would make sense to purchase
an air compressor, fittings and air tools. Seems to me that even for
blind rivets having air tools would be more convenient. But I didn't
know it was a requirement.
Does anyone feel that air tools for blind riveting is a requirement
rather than a convienence? One of the decision points on this kit for
me was not having the noise issue since I like to work late.
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
Alex . . . I think you want a air compressor to power the blind rivet
puller. They are noisy, and I put mine in the garage with a long hose
through the band joist to the basement. That eliminates some of the noise.
It only goes off every fifteen or twenty minutes. The powered rivet puller
makes the job ever so much easier, and you still have the option of using
the hand puller at night if quiet is a concern. I also like the air
drills - they're lighter and seem easier to control than the electric ones.
Personal preference. Robert Schoenberger 701 55%
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Rodriguez, MD" <proteus@mac.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Rivet Tools
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Alex Rodriguez, MD" <proteus@mac.com>
>
> I was just about to ask the list if many people have invested in air
> tools for riveting when I saw this post by Paul. In preparing my budget
> for tools, it seems that adding $300-$500 would make sense to purchase
> an air compressor, fittings and air tools. Seems to me that even for
> blind rivets having air tools would be more convenient. But I didn't
> know it was a requirement.
>
> Does anyone feel that air tools for blind riveting is a requirement
> rather than a convienence? One of the decision points on this kit for
> me was not having the noise issue since I like to work late.
>
> Thanks for your comments,
>
> Alex
>
> On Jul 20, 2005, at 1:42 AM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
>> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>> I wonder how many builders of the 601 XL have the version that
>> requires kit builders to set solid rivets - in spite of all the
>> promises this was not the case. Any comments from the crowd?
>>
>> Paul
>
>
>
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Personally speaking the idea that you can build this airplane without
using an air riviter is a joke. Well maybe not a joke but it's a bit
like re landscaping an enourmous yard...You have a choice, either you
spend days and days of back breaking work with a shovel or spend a
couple of hundred on a backhoe and do it in one day....In other words
its simply NOT worth NOT having the labour saving tool.
Having said that you don't need a large air compressor to run a
pnuematic riviter..You can use a less than 1HP compressor and smaller
compressors mean less noise...In fact I think you can get them very
quiet indeed.
The riviter itself will cost about $50 from Harbor freight. And make
very little noise.
Put it this way, there are about 100 rivets that you can't get to with a
pnuematic puller. By the time you have done those 200 rivets under the
fuse you will be a believer...Either that or live with carpel tunnel
syndrome..:)
Now having said that air drills are also a wonderful improvment to
productivity, however drills take a LOT of air and will require a larger
compressor. They are also very noisy...I use ear defenders every time I
use mine. So probably you want to stay away from an air drill and use a
nice (don't use a cheap one) lightweight battery drill. I have used the
snot out of my 9.6V makita, its fell of the roof several times and
almost built two airplanes...Its a bit worn but I still use it to build
my current airplane.
Frank
HDS 370 hours
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alex
Rodriguez, MD
Subject: Zenith-List: Rivet Tools
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Alex Rodriguez, MD"
--> <proteus@mac.com>
I was just about to ask the list if many people have invested in air
tools for riveting when I saw this post by Paul. In preparing my budget
for tools, it seems that adding $300-$500 would make sense to purchase
an air compressor, fittings and air tools. Seems to me that even for
blind rivets having air tools would be more convenient. But I didn't
know it was a requirement.
Does anyone feel that air tools for blind riveting is a requirement
rather than a convienence? One of the decision points on this kit for me
was not having the noise issue since I like to work late.
Thanks for your comments,
Alex
On Jul 20, 2005, at 1:42 AM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
> I wonder how many builders of the 601 XL have the version that
> requires kit builders to set solid rivets - in spite of all the
> promises this was not the case. Any comments from the crowd?
>
> Paul
Message 9
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
Alex,
I bought a $200 compressor, the rivet gun from ZAC (with heads), and a
cheap Harbor Freight air angle drill. I think these were *essential*...
However, I too wanted to be quiet. I used a fast variable speed $40
drill from Sears for most of the drilling (so I didn't have to listen to
a compressor!). For tight corner riveting, and some A4 rivets in small
batches, I bought a $6 Harbor Freight hand rivet puller - the ZAC rivet
heads are the same so I can switch between each.
Put a belt sander upside down clamped to a bench on your list too. Great
for filing L angle cut offs etc. etc. (wish I had this at the start).
Hope that helps..
..lance
http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Alex Rodriguez, MD"
--> <proteus@mac.com>
I was just about to ask the list if many people have invested in air
tools for riveting when I saw this post by Paul. In preparing my budget
for tools, it seems that adding $300-$500 would make sense to purchase
an air compressor, fittings and air tools. Seems to me that even for
blind rivets having air tools would be more convenient. But I didn't
know it was a requirement.
Does anyone feel that air tools for blind riveting is a requirement
rather than a convienence? One of the decision points on this kit for me
was not having the noise issue since I like to work late.
Thanks for your comments,
Alex
Message 10
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| Subject: | C-IDUS cross-country |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
Listers, this weather was so nice this morning I decided to take C-
IDUS for her first real cross-country!!
I took off at 8:30 AM and headed towards my home in St. George
Ontario, flew around the town then headed South and around Brantford
and Paris, then back towards Kitchener. Seeing that I had lots of
fuel I decided to take her out further and ended up landing on the
pavement for the first time in Stratford Ontario. She made a real
satisfying "chirp" when the wheels touched down ;) I stayed in the
lounge for 45 minutes or so to have a drink and relax. It wasn't
busy, only 1 plane flew is as I was leaving. The trip was back
uneventful and took only 20 minutes but the thermals were starting to
kick in so I had fun climbing out to try and get out of the bumps
(didn't work).
My engines problems have finally been licked, all of them due to air
pockets in the coolant on my 912. Switching to Evans fixed that. She
flew beautifully and was nicely in trim. The only problem I had was
my Garmin GPS died in Stratford. Not sure why, I'll have to call them
to see what can be done. I don't rely on the GPS anyhow so it wasn't
a big deal.
I took some pictures during the flight but since I can't post them
here you'll have to see them on my site at
http://pagefamily.homeunix.org/picture_album/
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912 11 hours so far
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: C-IDUS cross-country |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Tev, sounds like a great time. Some of us in the lower 48 are still tied to
the 25 mile FAA rule and envy you your freedom. Oh, for 38.5 more hours of good
weather, Best regards, Bill of Georgia
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>Put a belt sander upside down clamped to a bench on your list too. Great
>for filing L angle cut offs etc. etc. (wish I had this at the start).
I agree completely on the belt sander subject. I went one step
further and bought a Delta 1x42 inch bench sander. I actually bought
this tool for wood working, but it has proven to be the heaviest use
tool for both wood and metal forming for me. It costs around $100 at
Lowes and includes an adjustable table for angle work (like the sides
of rib forming blocks) and a disk sander on the side that I have never used.
For precision part forming, the trick is to mark the line where you
want the finished part to end. Rough cut the part leaving a little
extra material. Then, take the part to the sander and gently sand to
the line. Keep moving the part back and forth across the belt taking
little bits on each pass. This is an old trick from wood airplane
building, but it works great on aluminum too.
Paul
XL Barely started
Message 13
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
My only comment, suggestion, etc....
Air tools are great but they need a LOT of clean air, without water.
Buy a BIG compressor. Large tank, regulator, moisture filter and RUBBER hoses.
The cheap vinyl/plastic hoses will result in some salty language as they are always
un-cooperative.
Obviously you will get varying slants on this particular subject.
Zed/701/etc do not archive
Message 14
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kent Brown" <kentbrown@verizon.net>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alex Rodriguez, MD
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 8:32 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Rivet Tools
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Alex Rodriguez, MD" <proteus@mac.com>
>
> I was just about to ask the list if many people have invested in air
> tools for riveting when I saw this post by Paul. In preparing my budget
> for tools, it seems that adding $300-$500 would make sense to purchase
> an air compressor, fittings and air tools. Seems to me that even for
> blind rivets having air tools would be more convenient. But I didn't
> know it was a requirement.
>
> Does anyone feel that air tools for blind riveting is a requirement
> rather than a convienence? One of the decision points on this kit for
> me was not having the noise issue since I like to work late.
>
> Thanks for your comments,
>
I built the rudder and one wing (HDS) using the hand rivet puller and an
electric drill, so it can certainly be done. However, I am very happy I
decided to add a compressor and air tools to the project at that point, and
wish I done it sooner!
Kent
HDS, major airframe parts mostly complete
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kent Brown" <kentbrown@verizon.net>
> nice (don't use a cheap one) lightweight battery drill. I have used the
> snot out of my 9.6V makita, its fell of the roof several times and
> almost built two airplanes...Its a bit worn but I still use it to build
> my current airplane.
>
> Frank
> HDS 370 hours
>
Frank,
Did you build the airplanes on the roof? Did that make the first flight
easier? :)
Kent
Do not archive
Message 16
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
No I had to earn the privilage to build a second airplane...So we
doubled the size of our house (drove every nail ourselves) and then
extended the shop..Then I was given permission to build the RV...:)
Makita built the zodiac and part of the house, shop and now its just
finishing the airframe on the RV...Quite the best value for money tool
by far...:)
On a serious note...Try not to buy a 12V battery drill, they are
significantly heavier and much less easy to get in relatively tight
spaces.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kent Brown
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rivet Tools
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kent Brown" <kentbrown@verizon.net>
> nice (don't use a cheap one) lightweight battery drill. I have used
> the snot out of my 9.6V makita, its fell of the roof several times and
> almost built two airplanes...Its a bit worn but I still use it to
> build my current airplane.
>
> Frank
> HDS 370 hours
>
Frank,
Did you build the airplanes on the roof? Did that make the first flight
easier? :)
Kent
Do not archive
Message 17
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kent Brown" <kentbrown@verizon.net>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 11:09 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rivet Tools
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> No I had to earn the privilage to build a second airplane...So we
> doubled the size of our house (drove every nail ourselves) and then
> extended the shop..Then I was given permission to build the RV...:)
Frank,
It's amazing how many "incidental" costs there are when you get into
the airplane building game!
Kent
Do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: C-IDUS cross-country |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Trevor,
You've really done a nice job with your plane. Excellent web site too.
Thanks for sharing. Very exciting time for you.
Larry McFarland
do not archive
Trevor Page wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
>
>Listers, this weather was so nice this morning I decided to take C-
>IDUS for her first real cross-country!!
>
>I took off at 8:30 AM and headed towards my home in St. George
>Ontario, flew around the town then headed South and around Brantford
>and Paris, then back towards Kitchener. Seeing that I had lots of
>fuel I decided to take her out further and ended up landing on the
>pavement for the first time in Stratford Ontario. She made a real
>satisfying "chirp" when the wheels touched down ;) I stayed in the
>lounge for 45 minutes or so to have a drink and relax. It wasn't
>busy, only 1 plane flew is as I was leaving. The trip was back
>uneventful and took only 20 minutes but the thermals were starting to
>kick in so I had fun climbing out to try and get out of the bumps
>(didn't work).
>
>My engines problems have finally been licked, all of them due to air
>pockets in the coolant on my 912. Switching to Evans fixed that. She
>flew beautifully and was nicely in trim. The only problem I had was
>my Garmin GPS died in Stratford. Not sure why, I'll have to call them
>to see what can be done. I don't rely on the GPS anyhow so it wasn't
>a big deal.
>
>I took some pictures during the flight but since I can't post them
>here you'll have to see them on my site at
>http://pagefamily.homeunix.org/picture_album/
>
>Trev Page
>C-IDUS 601HD R912 11 hours so far
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
Not having read all the posts yet, I'm probably just reiterating what someone else
has written, but yes, I would certainly invest in an air compressor and an
air-driven rivet puller (something like $40 from Harbor Freight). That is, unless
you have a burning desire to develop 15-inch wrists and a grip that will
substitute for a sheet metal brake. Unless you are building from scratch, there
is very little rat-tat-tat, and a lot of pissshh-bonk during the riveting.
Some compressors are quieter than others, and you can always build a sound-insulated
cage for it to reside in.
Paul Rodriguez
601XL/Corvair
Still hangin' gear
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: Alex Rodriguez, MD<mailto:proteus@mac.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 10:31 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Rivet Tools
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Alex Rodriguez, MD" <proteus@mac.com<mailto:proteus@mac.com>>
I was just about to ask the list if many people have invested in air
tools for riveting when I saw this post by Paul. In preparing my budget
for tools, it seems that adding $300-$500 would make sense to purchase
an air compressor, fittings and air tools. Seems to me that even for
blind rivets having air tools would be more convenient. But I didn't
know it was a requirement.
Does anyone feel that air tools for blind riveting is a requirement
rather than a convienence? One of the decision points on this kit for
me was not having the noise issue since I like to work late.
Thanks for your comments,
Alex
On Jul 20, 2005, at 1:42 AM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net<mailto:p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>>
> I wonder how many builders of the 601 XL have the version that
> requires kit builders to set solid rivets - in spite of all the
> promises this was not the case. Any comments from the crowd?
>
> Paul
Message 20
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
>> No I had to earn the privilage to build a second airplane...So
we
>> doubled the size of our house (drove every nail ourselves) and
then
>> extended the shop..Then I was given permission to build the
RV...:)
>
>Frank,
> It's amazing how many "incidental" costs there are when
you get into
>the airplane building game!
>
>Kent
In Nov. of 1973 I read an article in Private Pilot on the RV3, the
article REALLY blew my skirt up and I built on of the first to
fly. That article so far has led to direct expenditures of close
to a half million dollars and the end is not in sight.
It includes building 4 airplanes (latest a 701 on amphibs both
scratch built) rebuilding 4-5 airplanes including a Champ, Pacer,
AG14, Seabee and now a Lake, a house and 60x40 hanger on an
airpark and about 3 swimming pools full of avgas. I give Davisson
the "new" total every year at Osh but he just laughs, think I'll
sue him. Welcome to the party. John Bolding Baytown TX 54T Do
not archive
Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Rivet Tools (Air vs. Electric Tools) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Alex:
I have filled three Gatorade bottles with rivet stems for my fuselage, wings and tail. If you don't believe me - see this photo: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/1_01_05_Stems.JPG
For drilling I mostly used a small (9-volt) cordless drill. You will need two
batteries so one can be charging all the time. I used an air drill occasionally,
but it was more trouble that it was worth most of the time. The main advantage
of having air is the pneumatic riveter from Harbor Freight. That will save
you loads of time vs. hand-pulling rivets. A small air compressor is all
you need. I have a 25 gallon compressor from Sears I got in 1987. It still works
fine. Also the riveter has done well for $35 on sale.
As someone else said, don't get a large electric drill because of the weight.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
"Alex Rodriguez, MD" <proteus@mac.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Alex Rodriguez, MD"
I was just about to ask the list if many people have invested in air
tools for riveting when I saw this post by Paul.
Message 22
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
pissshh-bonk
Perfect description....:)
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
PAULROD36@msn.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivet Tools
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
Not having read all the posts yet, I'm probably just reiterating what
someone else has written, but yes, I would certainly invest in an air
compressor and an air-driven rivet puller (something like $40 from
Harbor Freight). That is, unless you have a burning desire to develop
15-inch wrists and a grip that will substitute for a sheet metal brake.
Unless you are building from scratch, there is very little rat-tat-tat,
and a lot of pissshh-bonk during the riveting. Some compressors are
quieter than others, and you can always build a sound-insulated cage for
it to reside in.
Paul Rodriguez
601XL/Corvair
Still hangin' gear
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: Alex Rodriguez, MD<mailto:proteus@mac.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 10:31 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Rivet Tools
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Alex Rodriguez, MD"
<proteus@mac.com<mailto:proteus@mac.com>>
I was just about to ask the list if many people have invested in air
tools for riveting when I saw this post by Paul. In preparing my
budget
for tools, it seems that adding $300-$500 would make sense to purchase
an air compressor, fittings and air tools. Seems to me that even for
blind rivets having air tools would be more convenient. But I didn't
know it was a requirement.
Does anyone feel that air tools for blind riveting is a requirement
rather than a convienence? One of the decision points on this kit for
me was not having the noise issue since I like to work late.
Thanks for your comments,
Alex
On Jul 20, 2005, at 1:42 AM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net<mailto:p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>>
> I wonder how many builders of the 601 XL have the version that
> requires kit builders to set solid rivets - in spite of all the
> promises this was not the case. Any comments from the crowd?
>
> Paul
Message 23
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus" <barcusc@comcast.net>
I agree with Frank, I would not want to build an airplane without an air
riveter, another tool I consider necessary is a Dremel, the large reinforced
wheel is great for cutouts such as elevator trim, inspection holes, and the
small drum sanding wheels make perfect inside corner radii, someone
mentioned the beltsander with a disk sander from Lowe's, that's also a great
tool. I used the disk sander to form the angles that hold the bellcrank and
similar items, just draw the pattern with a pilot point marker, cut it close
to the line and shape it on the disk sander, it does a great job on outside
radii. I also bought the fan spacer for marking rivet locations, I really
don't like it and no longer use it. Instead I bought an aluminum yard stick
for $3.00 and used a square and a Stanley knife to layout rivet pitch, works
great and bends to fit the wing. Another tool I like a lot but it is not
really necessary but a great help when you are working by yourself. It is a
digital angle finder or digital level if you prefer, you can clamp it to the
spar, set the alarm and shim the spar until the alarm goes off, it is dead
level. It works on any angle, mine is called a Smarttool, the downside is it
cost $120.00. I got the idea from the series "From the Ground Up." The guys
on this list have found a lot of ways to accomplish the same tasks, some you
will use, some you won't, and you will probably come up with a few of your
own, that's what makes it fun.
Best Regards;
Clyde Barcus
601XL Corvair Powered
Completed so far:
Rudder, Elevator, Flaps, Ailerons, electric trim,
left wing, right wing nearly done, working on the engine
DO NOT ARCHIVE----- Original Message -----
From: "Kent Brown" <kentbrown@verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rivet Tools
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kent Brown" <kentbrown@verizon.net>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-
>> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 11:09 AM
>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rivet Tools
>>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
>> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>>
>> No I had to earn the privilage to build a second airplane...So we
>> doubled the size of our house (drove every nail ourselves) and then
>> extended the shop..Then I was given permission to build the RV...:)
>
> Frank,
> It's amazing how many "incidental" costs there are when you get
> into
> the airplane building game!
>
> Kent
> Do not archive
>
>
>
Message 24
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
"pissshh-bonk" ??
I'll sleep better knowing how to spell the sound a riveter makes.
Thanks, Paul!!
Zed/70 pisshh-bonk 1/R912/do not pissh-bonk archve
Message 25
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
..Woah...Maybe therapy might be cheaper?
Frank
1.5 airplanes, one house, 2 shop extensions
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jnbolding1
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rivet Tools
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1"
--> <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
>> No I had to earn the privilage to build a second airplane...So
we
>> doubled the size of our house (drove every nail ourselves) and
then
>> extended the shop..Then I was given permission to build the
RV...:)
>
>Frank,
> It's amazing how many "incidental" costs there are when
you get into
>the airplane building game!
>
>Kent
In Nov. of 1973 I read an article in Private Pilot on the RV3, the
article REALLY blew my skirt up and I built on of the first to fly. That
article so far has led to direct expenditures of close to a half million
dollars and the end is not in sight.
It includes building 4 airplanes (latest a 701 on amphibs both scratch
built) rebuilding 4-5 airplanes including a Champ, Pacer, AG14, Seabee
and now a Lake, a house and 60x40 hanger on an airpark and about 3
swimming pools full of avgas. I give Davisson the "new" total every year
at Osh but he just laughs, think I'll
sue him. Welcome to the party. John Bolding Baytown TX 54T Do
not archive
Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net
Message 26
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Very true,
One advantage to building an RV is you become completely numb to the
cost...twice as fast 3 times the cost...seems about right..:)
I bought a digital level, rarely use it but Oh boy when you need it its
just awesome...I found mine on Amazon.com for $84 very well worth it!
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clyde
Barcus
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivet Tools
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus" <barcusc@comcast.net>
I agree with Frank, I would not want to build an airplane without an air
riveter, another tool I consider necessary is a Dremel, the large
reinforced wheel is great for cutouts such as elevator trim, inspection
holes, and the small drum sanding wheels make perfect inside corner
radii, someone mentioned the beltsander with a disk sander from Lowe's,
that's also a great tool. I used the disk sander to form the angles that
hold the bellcrank and similar items, just draw the pattern with a pilot
point marker, cut it close to the line and shape it on the disk sander,
it does a great job on outside radii. I also bought the fan spacer for
marking rivet locations, I really don't like it and no longer use it.
Instead I bought an aluminum yard stick for $3.00 and used a square and
a Stanley knife to layout rivet pitch, works great and bends to fit the
wing. Another tool I like a lot but it is not really necessary but a
great help when you are working by yourself. It is a digital angle
finder or digital level if you prefer, you can clamp it to the spar, set
the alarm and shim the spar until the alarm goes off, it is dead level.
It works on any angle, mine is called a Smarttool, the downside is it
cost $120.00. I got the idea from the series "From the Ground Up." The
guys on this list have found a lot of ways to accomplish the same tasks,
some you will use, some you won't, and you will probably come up with a
few of your own, that's what makes it fun.
Best Regards;
Clyde Barcus
601XL Corvair Powered
Completed so far:
Rudder, Elevator, Flaps, Ailerons, electric trim, left wing, right wing
nearly done, working on the engine DO NOT ARCHIVE----- Original Message
-----
From: "Kent Brown" <kentbrown@verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rivet Tools
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kent Brown"
<kentbrown@verizon.net>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-
>> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 11:09 AM
>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rivet Tools
>>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
>> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>>
>> No I had to earn the privilage to build a second airplane...So we
>> doubled the size of our house (drove every nail ourselves) and then
>> extended the shop..Then I was given permission to build the RV...:)
>
> Frank,
> It's amazing how many "incidental" costs there are when you get
> into
> the airplane building game!
>
> Kent
> Do not archive
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Last Call For Builders dinner RSVP |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Mark:
I have to cancel. Family obligations require me to be home on Thursday and Friday.
I'll be there Monday afternoon and Tuesday.
Thanks,
Scott Laughlin
Zodie Rocket <zodierocket@hsfx.ca> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket"
Hi Gang, I'm about to print name tags and I would like everyone to have
one with there name on it, plus we would like to have an idea of the
attendance for the builders dinner. So if you have not RSVP ed already
please do at www.ch601.org or www.ch701.com
Thanks
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Last Call For Builders dinner RSVP |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Mark:
I have to cancel. Family obligations require me to be home on Thursday and Friday.
I'll be there Monday afternoon and Tuesday.
Thanks,
Scott Laughlin
Zodie Rocket <zodierocket@hsfx.ca> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket"
Hi Gang, I'm about to print name tags and I would like everyone to have
one with there name on it, plus we would like to have an idea of the
attendance for the builders dinner. So if you have not RSVP ed already
please do at www.ch601.org or www.ch701.com
Thanks
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: [ Johann G. Johannsson ] |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com
Johann,
Been traveling so I am late about this: Congratulations, and I loved the
photos. Take care, and may things continue to fly well.
I have appreciated your many mnay comments, and your specific responses to
my queries over the last couple of years.
Jim Greenough
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 30
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com
In a message dated 7/20/2005 3:25:30 PM Central Standard Time,
frank.hinde@hp.com writes:
<<<Frank .....1.5 airplanes, one house, 2 shop extensions>>>
<<<> Woah...Maybe therapy might be cheaper?>>>>
I think so too...but probably not as effective!
Dave
Message 31
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Alberti" <daberti@sbcglobal.net>
there is a problem, I think they have a three day minimum for camping
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of B Johnson
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Oshkosh Lodging
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" <bjohnson@satx.rr.com>
Scott, the EAA claims they NEVER run out of space for "car camping" right on
the grounds. That's were I'll be for 2 or 3 days....
http://airventure.org/2005/planning/camp_scholler_guidelines.html
Message 32
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Neitzel" <dickandjudy@frontiernet.net>
Howdy
There is another camp ground that is with in very short walking distance
from a gate. There is no minimum, you do not have to be an EAA member and
the stay is $10 per night. It is located on the corner of Knapp and Waupun
streets which is right across the street from the ultra light parking area
and there is an entrance facility right there. If I remember correctly,
they sold arm bands there. Basically this is a farm that the guy turns into
a huge camp ground. There is lots of room, unfortunately there are not many
shady spots. Also there is no electric and water must be carried from the
house to your camper. There are several porta potties on the property
incase you are not self contained.
If anyone would like more info contact me off list.
Dick Neitzel
Sayner WI
Soon to be a 701 builder
Jabiru 2200
dickandjudy@frontiernet.net
do not archive
Message 33
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| Subject: | Not Getting Daily Postings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
Dear List,
Is there something wrong with the daily postings? I have not gotten regular
daily postings now for several days.
Please respond off-list.
Thanks,
Dave Van Lanen
davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net
Do Not Archive
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh Lodging |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: WAYNE BEATTIE <waynebeattie@optonline.net>
Might try the Roadstar Inn in Appleton. 20 Minutes north.
May not be filled for Monday night.
Not exactly the Hilton, but it is the cheapest in the area at about
$85/night.
Wayne
N601WB
----- Original Message -----
From: "N5SL" <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Oshkosh Lodging
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi guys:
>
> I'm going to make my first trip to Oshkosh AirVenture this year and I'm
> looking for a place to stay for one night. I'm going to try to drive 8
> hours, spend 1/2 day, find a place to sleep, look around the second day
> and drive 8 hours home. It's all the time I have and I know I won't see
> everything but that's the way it is.
>
> At this point I have found a Holiday Inn over an hour away that has a
> room. Does anybody have a room (or a camping spot?) closer that would
> like to share the expense of the room? I'm not picky and just need one
> night. I'm somewhat flexible on the night - either Monday or Tuesday
> night. (Sorry Mark and David, I can't make the ZAC dinner like I had
> hoped).
>
> Thanks in advance for your help,
>
> Scott Laughlin
> 601XL / Corvair
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
> Waiting on Engine Parts
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Last Call For Builders dinner RSVP |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Pellien" <jim@pellien.com>
Mark,
I'll be coming on Thursday night 28 July at the Robbins Restaurant. I'll
check to see if any of the other 9 Sportsplanes.com reps plan to come. What
time does it start?
I'm still looking for a 601XL for our SPL booth since my 601XL was not
shipped in time for Oshkosh. Do you know anyone who wants to showcase their
pride and joy in the midst of the greatest air show on earth? Free tiedowns
and we will share in direct costs according to the FAA regulations. For
somebody that is selling their EX-AM Built 601XL, this would be the absolute
best way to advertise their aircraft.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N5SL
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Last Call For Builders dinner RSVP
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Mark:
I have to cancel. Family obligations require me to be home on Thursday and
Friday.
I'll be there Monday afternoon and Tuesday.
Thanks,
Scott Laughlin
Zodie Rocket <zodierocket@hsfx.ca> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket"
Hi Gang, I'm about to print name tags and I would like everyone to have
one with there name on it, plus we would like to have an idea of the
attendance for the builders dinner. So if you have not RSVP ed already
please do at www.ch601.org or www.ch701.com
Thanks
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
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