Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:22 AM - Re: 601XL Trouble with top skin and side cover (Larry McFarland)
2. 06:34 AM - Re: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! (n801bh@netzero.com)
3. 07:24 AM - Re: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! (Bill Cardell)
4. 08:13 AM - Re: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! (jim cantrell)
5. 09:33 AM - Re: 601XL Trouble with top skin and side cover (Mark Stauffer)
6. 10:54 AM - wing rib orientation (Brad Cohen)
7. 11:09 AM - Re: wing rib orientation (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
8. 12:27 PM - Re: wing rib orientation (george may)
9. 12:35 PM - regarding weep holes (Tebenkof@aol.com)
10. 01:46 PM - Re: 601XL Trouble with top skin and side cover (Leo Corbalis)
11. 02:11 PM - Re: 601XL Trouble with top skin and side cover (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
12. 06:16 PM - Carburetor Synchronization (Jeffrey A Beachy)
13. 09:20 PM - Re: Carburetor Synchronization (RURUNY@aol.com)
14. 11:41 PM - Suzuki G13 engine (chrisoz@bmail.com.au)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Trouble with top skin and side cover |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Mark,
I think you have to use a rubber trim piece to get the rub and seal
you're after. Take a look at my
canopy page and perhaps you'll see something there that will help. My
601HDS is basically the same
construct and being a plans built you will see the progression of
pictures that lead thru the canopy arm
assembly. I also made my forward top skin removable which has been off
half a dozen times this year
and provides excellent access behind the instrument panel.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/flash&rubber.gif
Hope this helps,
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Mark Stauffer wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" <mark.stauffer@cablespeed.com>
>
>Fellow builders,
>
>I'm working on the side covers that go along the canopy arms at the pivot
>point. The side cover binds with the top skin when trying to open the
>canopy. I've got the top skin cut back as far as I can from the bend radius
>of the panel side angle without blowing the edge distance. I really don't
>want to cut the side cover down anymore either because it won't look right.
>I've only done one side and maybe it will be ok when I've got the rear
>canopy frame installed but I don't think so. Has anyone else run into this
>and if so how did you solve it. All I can come up with now is bending the
>welded tab a little more outboard and see if that helps.
>
>A bit of caution. I bought my kit in Jan '03, SN:4999. I always download the
>newest chapter of the photo guide before I start a new section. I also
>bought an updated set of plans about 6 months ago. Well, the photo guide
>uses the new side cover and I tried (didn't notice is a better explanation)
>it with the older parts. Well, that didn't work. Zenith did come through and
>send me the new parts at no cost, BUT the tab on the canopy arms is welded
>at the old angle. Just be careful, once again I wasn't paying 100%
>attention!
>
>I wonder if I should go back and make the side cover the old way, with the
>rubber seal and everything. It's not nearly as nice a fit as the new way
>though. Hopefully I can work through this one.
>
>Thanks for any thoughts or ideas.
>
>Mark Stauffer
>601XL Still messing with the canopy
>Odenton, MD
>August 2&3 Jabiru Class
>
>Do not archive
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com>
My redrive does the same thing, the belt wandering is from poor manufacturing.
I have been through three belts and all three have had different patterns of moving.
Jess at Belted Air sees this all the time. My drive makes a slight noise
too at idle too with the cowling off. If you are concerned about your top bearing
you can simply grab onto the prop and pull up and down and in and out. If
the bearing is going bad you will feel it. It will also run hot so feel it after
you shut down the next time.You need to do this pretty quickly as the heat
from the engine will transfer into the redrive fast.If the belt is slightly
larger on one side then the other it will travel that way when full power is applied.
The one way to help this is of the redrive manuracturer will machine a
slight dish in the top sprocket, that way the belt will always try to fall into
the middle of the sprocket. THe redrive is the only thing I did not fabricate
on my plane and it is the only thing that has trie
d to kill me. Of course I am transferring several times more power through it
then they advertise it will take. Oh, the fun or experimenting !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Cardell" <Bill@flyinmiata.com>
Strangely enough, from what I understand you actually want the opposite
of a dish in the sprockets to center the belt, IOW, the center should be
higher. Counter-intuitive, but if you look at idlers, etc, they are
usually made slightly high centered.
TurboDog's Dad
Bill Cardell
www.flyinmiata.com
--
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com"
--> <n801bh@netzero.com>
My redrive does the same thing, the belt wandering is from poor
manufacturing. I have been through three belts and all three have had
different patterns of moving. Jess at Belted Air sees this all the time.
My drive makes a slight noise too at idle too with the cowling off. If
you are concerned about your top bearing you can simply grab onto the
prop and pull up and down and in and out. If the bearing is going bad
you will feel it. It will also run hot so feel it after you shut down
the next time.You need to do this pretty quickly as the heat from the
engine will transfer into the redrive fast.If the belt is slightly
larger on one side then the other it will travel that way when full
power is applied. The one way to help this is of the redrive
manuracturer will machine a slight dish in the top sprocket, that way
the belt will always try to fall into the middle of the sprocket. THe
redrive is the only thing I did not fabricate on my plane and it is the
only thing that has trie d to kill me. Of course I am transferring
several times more power through it then they advertise it will take.
Oh, the fun or experimenting !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: jim cantrell <jcant1@direcway.com>
In my experience with flat belt drives if you crown the pulley the belt will
center itself.
FWIW dept.
Jim Cantrell
Applying adhesive to spar and lift strut brackets today.
Kitfox 5 TD
Do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Cardell" <Bill@flyinmiata.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my!
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Cardell" <Bill@flyinmiata.com>
>
> Strangely enough, from what I understand you actually want the opposite
> of a dish in the sprockets to center the belt, IOW, the center should be
> higher. Counter-intuitive, but if you look at idlers, etc, they are
> usually made slightly high centered.
>
>
> TurboDog's Dad
> Bill Cardell
> www.flyinmiata.com
> --
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com"
> --> <n801bh@netzero.com>
>
>
> My redrive does the same thing, the belt wandering is from poor
> manufacturing. I have been through three belts and all three have had
> different patterns of moving. Jess at Belted Air sees this all the time.
> My drive makes a slight noise too at idle too with the cowling off. If
> you are concerned about your top bearing you can simply grab onto the
> prop and pull up and down and in and out. If the bearing is going bad
> you will feel it. It will also run hot so feel it after you shut down
> the next time.You need to do this pretty quickly as the heat from the
> engine will transfer into the redrive fast.If the belt is slightly
> larger on one side then the other it will travel that way when full
> power is applied. The one way to help this is of the redrive
> manuracturer will machine a slight dish in the top sprocket, that way
> the belt will always try to fall into the middle of the sprocket. THe
> redrive is the only thing I did not fabricate on my plane and it is the
> only thing that has trie d to kill me. Of course I am transferring
> several times more power through it then they advertise it will take.
> Oh, the fun or experimenting !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Ben Haas
> N801BH
> www.haaspowerair.com
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | 601XL Trouble with top skin and side cover |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" <mark.stauffer@cablespeed.com>
I probably need to clarify this a bit more. The side cover binds with the
top skin along the upper edge of the top skin rather than the forward edge.
Mark
Do not archive
Fellow builders,
I'm working on the side covers that go along the canopy arms at the pivot
point. The side cover binds with the top skin when trying to open the
canopy. I've got the top skin cut back as far as I can from the bend radius
of the panel side angle without blowing the edge distance. I really don't
want to cut the side cover down anymore either because it won't look right.
I've only done one side and maybe it will be ok when I've got the rear
canopy frame installed but I don't think so. Has anyone else run into this
and if so how did you solve it. All I can come up with now is bending the
welded tab a little more outboard and see if that helps.
Message 6
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| Subject: | wing rib orientation |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brad Cohen" <bradfnp@msn.com>
Help!
I have just started working on the right wing of my 601XL with the wing locker
option and I am confused about the orientation of the #4 rear rib. I installed
the L-angle stiffners for the first three ribs without incident (amazing!).
In the drawings it shows all the flanges for the wing ribs facing outboard EXCEPT
for rear rib#4, which is the inboard rib for the wing locker, this flange faces
inboard, is that correct? If it is correct, and the rear rib #4 flange faces
inboard, which side do the stiffners go on? the assembly guide says they go
on the outboard side (which puts them inside the locker) but this does not make
any sense. I tried calling ZAC but of course, they are all @ OSH this week.
Any XL builders (or HDS if the wing is built the same) with any suggestions?
Thanks
Brad Cohen
tail completed, working on wings
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: wing rib orientation |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Call Nick at ZAC.
Message 8
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| Subject: | wing rib orientation |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" <gfmjr_20@hotmail.com>
Brad--
I just checked my wings. Built with wing lockers a couple of months ago.
Ribs 1 thru 4 flanges
all face outboard. I put the stiffeners on Rib 1 outboard, Rib 2&3 outboard
and Rib 4 inboard.
The reason for the outboard placement on Rib 1 was to give move room between
the rib
and fuse side. The reason for the inboard placement for the stiffeners on
Rib 4 was to
keep them out of the lockers.
Possibly ZAC changed the flanges of Rib 4 with the wing locker option so
that they
face inboard, but it's not a big deal either way
George May
601XL working on fuse
>From: "Brad Cohen" <bradfnp@msn.com>
>Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>To: "zenith-list" <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Zenith-List: wing rib orientation
>Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 13:52:50 -0400
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brad Cohen" <bradfnp@msn.com>
>
>Help!
>
>I have just started working on the right wing of my 601XL with the wing
>locker option and I am confused about the orientation of the #4 rear rib. I
>installed the L-angle stiffners for the first three ribs without incident
>(amazing!).
>
>In the drawings it shows all the flanges for the wing ribs facing outboard
>EXCEPT for rear rib#4, which is the inboard rib for the wing locker, this
>flange faces inboard, is that correct? If it is correct, and the rear rib
>#4 flange faces inboard, which side do the stiffners go on? the assembly
>guide says they go on the outboard side (which puts them inside the locker)
>but this does not make any sense. I tried calling ZAC but of course, they
>are all @ OSH this week.
>
>Any XL builders (or HDS if the wing is built the same) with any
>suggestions?
>
>Thanks
>Brad Cohen
>tail completed, working on wings
>
>
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 9
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| Subject: | regarding weep holes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com
Thanks to everyone who responded about weep hole in the H. Stab. (and some
other places also, it seems). As usual the opinions covered a range, but the
concensus seems to lie between a good idea and essential. So I will.
Thanks again,
Jim Greenough
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Trouble with top skin and side cover |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
I retrofitted a fwd open canopy on my HDS. I covered the inside front and
top edges with propeller tape and ran a bead of silicone II (from GE) on the
cowl. Just close it for 2 days and trim off the excess silicone. I outlined
the edge of the cover in the closed position with masking tape so that the
edge of the silicone matches the edge of the arm cover. the prop tape acts
as a parting agent and bearing surface at the front when you open the
canopy.
Leo Corbalis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Trouble with top skin and side cover
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> Mark,
> I think you have to use a rubber trim piece to get the rub and seal
> you're after. Take a look at my
> canopy page and perhaps you'll see something there that will help. My
> 601HDS is basically the same
> construct and being a plans built you will see the progression of
> pictures that lead thru the canopy arm
> assembly. I also made my forward top skin removable which has been off
> half a dozen times this year
> and provides excellent access behind the instrument panel.
> http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/flash&rubber.gif
> Hope this helps,
>
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
> do not archive
>
> Mark Stauffer wrote:
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer"
>><mark.stauffer@cablespeed.com>
>>
>>Fellow builders,
>>
>>I'm working on the side covers that go along the canopy arms at the pivot
>>point. The side cover binds with the top skin when trying to open the
>>canopy. I've got the top skin cut back as far as I can from the bend
>>radius
>>of the panel side angle without blowing the edge distance. I really don't
>>want to cut the side cover down anymore either because it won't look
>>right.
>>I've only done one side and maybe it will be ok when I've got the rear
>>canopy frame installed but I don't think so. Has anyone else run into this
>>and if so how did you solve it. All I can come up with now is bending the
>>welded tab a little more outboard and see if that helps.
>>
>>A bit of caution. I bought my kit in Jan '03, SN:4999. I always download
>>the
>>newest chapter of the photo guide before I start a new section. I also
>>bought an updated set of plans about 6 months ago. Well, the photo guide
>>uses the new side cover and I tried (didn't notice is a better
>>explanation)
>>it with the older parts. Well, that didn't work. Zenith did come through
>>and
>>send me the new parts at no cost, BUT the tab on the canopy arms is welded
>>at the old angle. Just be careful, once again I wasn't paying 100%
>>attention!
>>
>>I wonder if I should go back and make the side cover the old way, with the
>>rubber seal and everything. It's not nearly as nice a fit as the new way
>>though. Hopefully I can work through this one.
>>
>>Thanks for any thoughts or ideas.
>>
>>Mark Stauffer
>>601XL Still messing with the canopy
>>Odenton, MD
>>August 2&3 Jabiru Class
>>
>>Do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | 601XL Trouble with top skin and side cover |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Never heard of anyone using silicone I this manner Leo...Great idea if
it hold sup..If it doesn't I guess you can simply re do it...Hmm, I have
a similar application on my RV project...
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Leo
Corbalis
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Trouble with top skin and side cover
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis"
--> <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
I retrofitted a fwd open canopy on my HDS. I covered the inside front
and top edges with propeller tape and ran a bead of silicone II (from
GE) on the cowl. Just close it for 2 days and trim off the excess
silicone. I outlined the edge of the cover in the closed position with
masking tape so that the edge of the silicone matches the edge of the
arm cover. the prop tape acts as a parting agent and bearing surface at
the front when you open the canopy.
Leo Corbalis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Trouble with top skin and side cover
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland
<larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> Mark,
> I think you have to use a rubber trim piece to get the rub and seal
> you're after. Take a look at my
> canopy page and perhaps you'll see something there that will help. My
> 601HDS is basically the same
> construct and being a plans built you will see the progression of
> pictures that lead thru the canopy arm
> assembly. I also made my forward top skin removable which has been
off
> half a dozen times this year
> and provides excellent access behind the instrument panel.
> http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/flash&rubber.gif
> Hope this helps,
>
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
> do not archive
>
> Mark Stauffer wrote:
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer"
>><mark.stauffer@cablespeed.com>
>>
>>Fellow builders,
>>
>>I'm working on the side covers that go along the canopy arms at the
pivot
>>point. The side cover binds with the top skin when trying to open the
>>canopy. I've got the top skin cut back as far as I can from the bend
>>radius
>>of the panel side angle without blowing the edge distance. I really
don't
>>want to cut the side cover down anymore either because it won't look
>>right.
>>I've only done one side and maybe it will be ok when I've got the rear
>>canopy frame installed but I don't think so. Has anyone else run into
this
>>and if so how did you solve it. All I can come up with now is bending
the
>>welded tab a little more outboard and see if that helps.
>>
>>A bit of caution. I bought my kit in Jan '03, SN:4999. I always
download
>>the
>>newest chapter of the photo guide before I start a new section. I also
>>bought an updated set of plans about 6 months ago. Well, the photo
guide
>>uses the new side cover and I tried (didn't notice is a better
>>explanation)
>>it with the older parts. Well, that didn't work. Zenith did come
through
>>and
>>send me the new parts at no cost, BUT the tab on the canopy arms is
welded
>>at the old angle. Just be careful, once again I wasn't paying 100%
>>attention!
>>
>>I wonder if I should go back and make the side cover the old way, with
the
>>rubber seal and everything. It's not nearly as nice a fit as the new
way
>>though. Hopefully I can work through this one.
>>
>>Thanks for any thoughts or ideas.
>>
>>Mark Stauffer
>>601XL Still messing with the canopy
>>Odenton, MD
>>August 2&3 Jabiru Class
>>
>>Do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Carburetor Synchronization |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jeffrey A Beachy <beachyjeff@juno.com>
Hello list,
my Aug 2005 EAA Sport Pilot contains an article by Philip Lockwood on
installing Rotax 912 engines. While I am far from that point (working on
the wings currently) I will be installing a 912ULS on my 701. The article
mentions that the April and May 2004 issues of EAA Sport Pilot had a
detailed description of the carb synchronizing procedure. Well, I looked
in my stacks and discovered that I threw out those issues without saving
the carb sync articles. Would one of you be so kind as to either send me
photocopies of the article or scan them and email them to me? I have
received Sport Pilot for 5 years, so I do not think that this would be a
copyright violation. Since I started building my 701 this year, I
routinely tear out articles that may come in handy and store them, but a
year ago I was not thinking of building a plane! How quickly things
change.
Regards,
Jeff Beachy
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Carburetor Synchronization |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: RURUNY@aol.com
Jeff,
Those articles are the "Power On" articles by Phil. They are very well
written.
Very worthwhile to print for 912 owners. Browse thru because the titles do
not indicate all
subjects.
They are all at this link in PDF format
_http://www.sportpilot.org/magazine/feature/_
(http://www.sportpilot.org/magazine/feature/)
I found Jon Crokes video at Homebuilthelp.com very helpful also. Doesn't
hurt to absorb
as much info as possible before you take on the engine install task, even if
it is a way off
in the future. My engine install went very smoothly. The Zenith manuals were
very good in this area also.
Brian
Message 14
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| Subject: | Suzuki G13 engine |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: chrisoz@bmail.com.au
Ladies (?) and Gentlemen,
I have recently started to build an other Zodiac, and am pondering the engine
question at the moment. I have had Rotax 912 (twice), EA 81 and Verner in my
last Zodies, and except for the Verner which turned out to be a bit anaemic
(but sooo easy to install) the engines were fine, with the Subaru a bit on the
heavy side.
Without trying to start an other line of the engine debate, due to financial
constrains and the non availability of second hand Rotax 912 over here in
Australia I am seriously thinking about a Suzuki G13 four cylinder engine, 16
valves, turbo-charged and fuel injected, about 125 hp. I actually already
bought the car with the overhauled engine installed, so I can test drive for a
while. I intend to mate it with a geared reduction drive from Air Trikes in
Canada. Oh, and put a BRS system in the plane, better safe than sorry, and
$3600 well spent.
Now here is my question:
Has anybody got experience with the engine set up, any comments or points to
ponder, warnings (not the automotive engines should not fly bit)?
BTW, I have always been wondering about the "automotive engines are not
designed to run at high rpm over extended periods of time " bit. I originally
hail from Germany, and there is no speed limit there. I grew up going 180 km/h
in my BMW on a regular basis, never getting lower than 5000 odd rpm, along
with lots of other cars in the speed range. And the engines seem to cope just
fine.
Just a thought...
Cheers,
Chris from Oz
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