---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 07/27/05: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:22 AM - Re: 601XL Trouble with top skin and side cover (Larry McFarland) 2. 06:34 AM - Re: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! (n801bh@netzero.com) 3. 07:24 AM - Re: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! (Bill Cardell) 4. 08:13 AM - Re: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! (jim cantrell) 5. 09:33 AM - Re: 601XL Trouble with top skin and side cover (Mark Stauffer) 6. 10:54 AM - wing rib orientation (Brad Cohen) 7. 11:09 AM - Re: wing rib orientation (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 8. 12:27 PM - Re: wing rib orientation (george may) 9. 12:35 PM - regarding weep holes (Tebenkof@aol.com) 10. 01:46 PM - Re: 601XL Trouble with top skin and side cover (Leo Corbalis) 11. 02:11 PM - Re: 601XL Trouble with top skin and side cover (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 12. 06:16 PM - Carburetor Synchronization (Jeffrey A Beachy) 13. 09:20 PM - Re: Carburetor Synchronization (RURUNY@aol.com) 14. 11:41 PM - Suzuki G13 engine (chrisoz@bmail.com.au) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:22:48 AM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Trouble with top skin and side cover --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Mark, I think you have to use a rubber trim piece to get the rub and seal you're after. Take a look at my canopy page and perhaps you'll see something there that will help. My 601HDS is basically the same construct and being a plans built you will see the progression of pictures that lead thru the canopy arm assembly. I also made my forward top skin removable which has been off half a dozen times this year and provides excellent access behind the instrument panel. http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/flash&rubber.gif Hope this helps, Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive Mark Stauffer wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" > >Fellow builders, > >I'm working on the side covers that go along the canopy arms at the pivot >point. The side cover binds with the top skin when trying to open the >canopy. I've got the top skin cut back as far as I can from the bend radius >of the panel side angle without blowing the edge distance. I really don't >want to cut the side cover down anymore either because it won't look right. >I've only done one side and maybe it will be ok when I've got the rear >canopy frame installed but I don't think so. Has anyone else run into this >and if so how did you solve it. All I can come up with now is bending the >welded tab a little more outboard and see if that helps. > >A bit of caution. I bought my kit in Jan '03, SN:4999. I always download the >newest chapter of the photo guide before I start a new section. I also >bought an updated set of plans about 6 months ago. Well, the photo guide >uses the new side cover and I tried (didn't notice is a better explanation) >it with the older parts. Well, that didn't work. Zenith did come through and >send me the new parts at no cost, BUT the tab on the canopy arms is welded >at the old angle. Just be careful, once again I wasn't paying 100% >attention! > >I wonder if I should go back and make the side cover the old way, with the >rubber seal and everything. It's not nearly as nice a fit as the new way >though. Hopefully I can work through this one. > >Thanks for any thoughts or ideas. > >Mark Stauffer >601XL Still messing with the canopy >Odenton, MD >August 2&3 Jabiru Class > >Do not archive > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:13 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" My redrive does the same thing, the belt wandering is from poor manufacturing. I have been through three belts and all three have had different patterns of moving. Jess at Belted Air sees this all the time. My drive makes a slight noise too at idle too with the cowling off. If you are concerned about your top bearing you can simply grab onto the prop and pull up and down and in and out. If the bearing is going bad you will feel it. It will also run hot so feel it after you shut down the next time.You need to do this pretty quickly as the heat from the engine will transfer into the redrive fast.If the belt is slightly larger on one side then the other it will travel that way when full power is applied. The one way to help this is of the redrive manuracturer will machine a slight dish in the top sprocket, that way the belt will always try to fall into the middle of the sprocket. THe redrive is the only thing I did not fabricate on my plane and it is the only thing that has trie d to kill me. Of course I am transferring several times more power through it then they advertise it will take. Oh, the fun or experimenting !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:04 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! From: "Bill Cardell" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Cardell" Strangely enough, from what I understand you actually want the opposite of a dish in the sprockets to center the belt, IOW, the center should be higher. Counter-intuitive, but if you look at idlers, etc, they are usually made slightly high centered. TurboDog's Dad Bill Cardell www.flyinmiata.com -- --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" --> My redrive does the same thing, the belt wandering is from poor manufacturing. I have been through three belts and all three have had different patterns of moving. Jess at Belted Air sees this all the time. My drive makes a slight noise too at idle too with the cowling off. If you are concerned about your top bearing you can simply grab onto the prop and pull up and down and in and out. If the bearing is going bad you will feel it. It will also run hot so feel it after you shut down the next time.You need to do this pretty quickly as the heat from the engine will transfer into the redrive fast.If the belt is slightly larger on one side then the other it will travel that way when full power is applied. The one way to help this is of the redrive manuracturer will machine a slight dish in the top sprocket, that way the belt will always try to fall into the middle of the sprocket. THe redrive is the only thing I did not fabricate on my plane and it is the only thing that has trie d to kill me. Of course I am transferring several times more power through it then they advertise it will take. Oh, the fun or experimenting !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:13:49 AM PST US From: jim cantrell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! --> Zenith-List message posted by: jim cantrell In my experience with flat belt drives if you crown the pulley the belt will center itself. FWIW dept. Jim Cantrell Applying adhesive to spar and lift strut brackets today. Kitfox 5 TD Do not archive. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Cardell" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Cardell" > > Strangely enough, from what I understand you actually want the opposite > of a dish in the sprockets to center the belt, IOW, the center should be > higher. Counter-intuitive, but if you look at idlers, etc, they are > usually made slightly high centered. > > > TurboDog's Dad > Bill Cardell > www.flyinmiata.com > -- > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" > --> > > > My redrive does the same thing, the belt wandering is from poor > manufacturing. I have been through three belts and all three have had > different patterns of moving. Jess at Belted Air sees this all the time. > My drive makes a slight noise too at idle too with the cowling off. If > you are concerned about your top bearing you can simply grab onto the > prop and pull up and down and in and out. If the bearing is going bad > you will feel it. It will also run hot so feel it after you shut down > the next time.You need to do this pretty quickly as the heat from the > engine will transfer into the redrive fast.If the belt is slightly > larger on one side then the other it will travel that way when full > power is applied. The one way to help this is of the redrive > manuracturer will machine a slight dish in the top sprocket, that way > the belt will always try to fall into the middle of the sprocket. THe > redrive is the only thing I did not fabricate on my plane and it is the > only thing that has trie d to kill me. Of course I am transferring > several times more power through it then they advertise it will take. > Oh, the fun or experimenting !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > Ben Haas > N801BH > www.haaspowerair.com > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:33:22 AM PST US From: "Mark Stauffer" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL Trouble with top skin and side cover --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" I probably need to clarify this a bit more. The side cover binds with the top skin along the upper edge of the top skin rather than the forward edge. Mark Do not archive Fellow builders, I'm working on the side covers that go along the canopy arms at the pivot point. The side cover binds with the top skin when trying to open the canopy. I've got the top skin cut back as far as I can from the bend radius of the panel side angle without blowing the edge distance. I really don't want to cut the side cover down anymore either because it won't look right. I've only done one side and maybe it will be ok when I've got the rear canopy frame installed but I don't think so. Has anyone else run into this and if so how did you solve it. All I can come up with now is bending the welded tab a little more outboard and see if that helps. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:54:09 AM PST US From: "Brad Cohen" Subject: Zenith-List: wing rib orientation --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brad Cohen" Help! I have just started working on the right wing of my 601XL with the wing locker option and I am confused about the orientation of the #4 rear rib. I installed the L-angle stiffners for the first three ribs without incident (amazing!). In the drawings it shows all the flanges for the wing ribs facing outboard EXCEPT for rear rib#4, which is the inboard rib for the wing locker, this flange faces inboard, is that correct? If it is correct, and the rear rib #4 flange faces inboard, which side do the stiffners go on? the assembly guide says they go on the outboard side (which puts them inside the locker) but this does not make any sense. I tried calling ZAC but of course, they are all @ OSH this week. Any XL builders (or HDS if the wing is built the same) with any suggestions? Thanks Brad Cohen tail completed, working on wings ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:09:42 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: wing rib orientation --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Call Nick at ZAC. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:27:41 PM PST US From: "george may" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: wing rib orientation --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" Brad-- I just checked my wings. Built with wing lockers a couple of months ago. Ribs 1 thru 4 flanges all face outboard. I put the stiffeners on Rib 1 outboard, Rib 2&3 outboard and Rib 4 inboard. The reason for the outboard placement on Rib 1 was to give move room between the rib and fuse side. The reason for the inboard placement for the stiffeners on Rib 4 was to keep them out of the lockers. Possibly ZAC changed the flanges of Rib 4 with the wing locker option so that they face inboard, but it's not a big deal either way George May 601XL working on fuse >From: "Brad Cohen" >Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com >To: "zenith-list" >Subject: Zenith-List: wing rib orientation >Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 13:52:50 -0400 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brad Cohen" > >Help! > >I have just started working on the right wing of my 601XL with the wing >locker option and I am confused about the orientation of the #4 rear rib. I >installed the L-angle stiffners for the first three ribs without incident >(amazing!). > >In the drawings it shows all the flanges for the wing ribs facing outboard >EXCEPT for rear rib#4, which is the inboard rib for the wing locker, this >flange faces inboard, is that correct? If it is correct, and the rear rib >#4 flange faces inboard, which side do the stiffners go on? the assembly >guide says they go on the outboard side (which puts them inside the locker) >but this does not make any sense. I tried calling ZAC but of course, they >are all @ OSH this week. > >Any XL builders (or HDS if the wing is built the same) with any >suggestions? > >Thanks >Brad Cohen >tail completed, working on wings > > Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:35:25 PM PST US From: Tebenkof@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: regarding weep holes --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com Thanks to everyone who responded about weep hole in the H. Stab. (and some other places also, it seems). As usual the opinions covered a range, but the concensus seems to lie between a good idea and essential. So I will. Thanks again, Jim Greenough ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:46:06 PM PST US From: "Leo Corbalis" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Trouble with top skin and side cover --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" I retrofitted a fwd open canopy on my HDS. I covered the inside front and top edges with propeller tape and ran a bead of silicone II (from GE) on the cowl. Just close it for 2 days and trim off the excess silicone. I outlined the edge of the cover in the closed position with masking tape so that the edge of the silicone matches the edge of the arm cover. the prop tape acts as a parting agent and bearing surface at the front when you open the canopy. Leo Corbalis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Trouble with top skin and side cover > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland > > Mark, > I think you have to use a rubber trim piece to get the rub and seal > you're after. Take a look at my > canopy page and perhaps you'll see something there that will help. My > 601HDS is basically the same > construct and being a plans built you will see the progression of > pictures that lead thru the canopy arm > assembly. I also made my forward top skin removable which has been off > half a dozen times this year > and provides excellent access behind the instrument panel. > http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/flash&rubber.gif > Hope this helps, > > Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > do not archive > > Mark Stauffer wrote: > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" >> >> >>Fellow builders, >> >>I'm working on the side covers that go along the canopy arms at the pivot >>point. The side cover binds with the top skin when trying to open the >>canopy. I've got the top skin cut back as far as I can from the bend >>radius >>of the panel side angle without blowing the edge distance. I really don't >>want to cut the side cover down anymore either because it won't look >>right. >>I've only done one side and maybe it will be ok when I've got the rear >>canopy frame installed but I don't think so. Has anyone else run into this >>and if so how did you solve it. All I can come up with now is bending the >>welded tab a little more outboard and see if that helps. >> >>A bit of caution. I bought my kit in Jan '03, SN:4999. I always download >>the >>newest chapter of the photo guide before I start a new section. I also >>bought an updated set of plans about 6 months ago. Well, the photo guide >>uses the new side cover and I tried (didn't notice is a better >>explanation) >>it with the older parts. Well, that didn't work. Zenith did come through >>and >>send me the new parts at no cost, BUT the tab on the canopy arms is welded >>at the old angle. Just be careful, once again I wasn't paying 100% >>attention! >> >>I wonder if I should go back and make the side cover the old way, with the >>rubber seal and everything. It's not nearly as nice a fit as the new way >>though. Hopefully I can work through this one. >> >>Thanks for any thoughts or ideas. >> >>Mark Stauffer >>601XL Still messing with the canopy >>Odenton, MD >>August 2&3 Jabiru Class >> >>Do not archive >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:04 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL Trouble with top skin and side cover From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Never heard of anyone using silicone I this manner Leo...Great idea if it hold sup..If it doesn't I guess you can simply re do it...Hmm, I have a similar application on my RV project... Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Leo Corbalis Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Trouble with top skin and side cover --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" --> I retrofitted a fwd open canopy on my HDS. I covered the inside front and top edges with propeller tape and ran a bead of silicone II (from GE) on the cowl. Just close it for 2 days and trim off the excess silicone. I outlined the edge of the cover in the closed position with masking tape so that the edge of the silicone matches the edge of the arm cover. the prop tape acts as a parting agent and bearing surface at the front when you open the canopy. Leo Corbalis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Trouble with top skin and side cover > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland > > Mark, > I think you have to use a rubber trim piece to get the rub and seal > you're after. Take a look at my > canopy page and perhaps you'll see something there that will help. My > 601HDS is basically the same > construct and being a plans built you will see the progression of > pictures that lead thru the canopy arm > assembly. I also made my forward top skin removable which has been off > half a dozen times this year > and provides excellent access behind the instrument panel. > http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/flash&rubber.gif > Hope this helps, > > Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > do not archive > > Mark Stauffer wrote: > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" >> >> >>Fellow builders, >> >>I'm working on the side covers that go along the canopy arms at the pivot >>point. The side cover binds with the top skin when trying to open the >>canopy. I've got the top skin cut back as far as I can from the bend >>radius >>of the panel side angle without blowing the edge distance. I really don't >>want to cut the side cover down anymore either because it won't look >>right. >>I've only done one side and maybe it will be ok when I've got the rear >>canopy frame installed but I don't think so. Has anyone else run into this >>and if so how did you solve it. All I can come up with now is bending the >>welded tab a little more outboard and see if that helps. >> >>A bit of caution. I bought my kit in Jan '03, SN:4999. I always download >>the >>newest chapter of the photo guide before I start a new section. I also >>bought an updated set of plans about 6 months ago. Well, the photo guide >>uses the new side cover and I tried (didn't notice is a better >>explanation) >>it with the older parts. Well, that didn't work. Zenith did come through >>and >>send me the new parts at no cost, BUT the tab on the canopy arms is welded >>at the old angle. Just be careful, once again I wasn't paying 100% >>attention! >> >>I wonder if I should go back and make the side cover the old way, with the >>rubber seal and everything. It's not nearly as nice a fit as the new way >>though. Hopefully I can work through this one. >> >>Thanks for any thoughts or ideas. >> >>Mark Stauffer >>601XL Still messing with the canopy >>Odenton, MD >>August 2&3 Jabiru Class >> >>Do not archive >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:00 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Carburetor Synchronization From: Jeffrey A Beachy --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jeffrey A Beachy Hello list, my Aug 2005 EAA Sport Pilot contains an article by Philip Lockwood on installing Rotax 912 engines. While I am far from that point (working on the wings currently) I will be installing a 912ULS on my 701. The article mentions that the April and May 2004 issues of EAA Sport Pilot had a detailed description of the carb synchronizing procedure. Well, I looked in my stacks and discovered that I threw out those issues without saving the carb sync articles. Would one of you be so kind as to either send me photocopies of the article or scan them and email them to me? I have received Sport Pilot for 5 years, so I do not think that this would be a copyright violation. Since I started building my 701 this year, I routinely tear out articles that may come in handy and store them, but a year ago I was not thinking of building a plane! How quickly things change. Regards, Jeff Beachy ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:26 PM PST US From: RURUNY@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Carburetor Synchronization --> Zenith-List message posted by: RURUNY@aol.com Jeff, Those articles are the "Power On" articles by Phil. They are very well written. Very worthwhile to print for 912 owners. Browse thru because the titles do not indicate all subjects. They are all at this link in PDF format _http://www.sportpilot.org/magazine/feature/_ (http://www.sportpilot.org/magazine/feature/) I found Jon Crokes video at Homebuilthelp.com very helpful also. Doesn't hurt to absorb as much info as possible before you take on the engine install task, even if it is a way off in the future. My engine install went very smoothly. The Zenith manuals were very good in this area also. Brian ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:41:21 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Suzuki G13 engine From: chrisoz@bmail.com.au --> Zenith-List message posted by: chrisoz@bmail.com.au Ladies (?) and Gentlemen, I have recently started to build an other Zodiac, and am pondering the engine question at the moment. I have had Rotax 912 (twice), EA 81 and Verner in my last Zodies, and except for the Verner which turned out to be a bit anaemic (but sooo easy to install) the engines were fine, with the Subaru a bit on the heavy side. Without trying to start an other line of the engine debate, due to financial constrains and the non availability of second hand Rotax 912 over here in Australia I am seriously thinking about a Suzuki G13 four cylinder engine, 16 valves, turbo-charged and fuel injected, about 125 hp. I actually already bought the car with the overhauled engine installed, so I can test drive for a while. I intend to mate it with a geared reduction drive from Air Trikes in Canada. Oh, and put a BRS system in the plane, better safe than sorry, and $3600 well spent. Now here is my question: Has anybody got experience with the engine set up, any comments or points to ponder, warnings (not the automotive engines should not fly bit)? BTW, I have always been wondering about the "automotive engines are not designed to run at high rpm over extended periods of time " bit. I originally hail from Germany, and there is no speed limit there. I grew up going 180 km/h in my BMW on a regular basis, never getting lower than 5000 odd rpm, along with lots of other cars in the speed range. And the engines seem to cope just fine. Just a thought... Cheers, Chris from Oz