---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 07/29/05: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:41 AM - G13 engine (chrisoz@bmail.com.au) 2. 03:02 AM - Re: G13 engine (Paul Mulwitz) 3. 03:44 AM - Re: 601XL Main gear routing (Phil Maxson) 4. 06:11 AM - Re: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! (n801bh@netzero.com) 5. 06:45 AM - Re: 601XL Main gear routing (Heat Treating?) (N5SL) 6. 07:30 AM - Re: 601XL Main gear routing (Heat Treating?) (William Dominguez) 7. 08:23 AM - 601 Wheel Pants Problem (japhillipsga@aol.com) 8. 08:26 AM - Re: 601XL Main gear BENDING (N5SL) 9. 08:33 AM - 1993 ch601HD for sale (rical26) 10. 08:35 AM - Re: Suzuki G13 engine (japhillipsga@aol.com) 11. 09:17 AM - Re: 601XL Main gear BENDING (William Dominguez) 12. 09:43 AM - Re: 601XL Main gear routing (Heat Treating?) (Paul Mulwitz) 13. 10:09 AM - Belt vs Gear Drives vs direct drives (Don Mountain) 14. 01:39 PM - Re: Belt vs Gear Drives vs direct drives (Larry McFarland) 15. 04:19 PM - Re: 1993 ch601HD for sale (R. Saarinen) 16. 04:45 PM - Re: 601XL Main gear BENDING (Monty Graves) 17. 06:02 PM - Where is page 6W12 in the drawings? (William Dominguez) 18. 06:51 PM - Re: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! (Larry) 19. 06:59 PM - Re: 1993 ch601HD for sale (rical26) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:41:26 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: G13 engine From: chrisoz@bmail.com.au --> Zenith-List message posted by: chrisoz@bmail.com.au Hello Listers, thank you to everybody who answered to my posting about the Suzuki engine, quite a few interesting leads have popped up that way! Paul, as far as reasons for a BRS are concerned, most of them have already been brought up by William and others. I would like to add inflight incapacitation (for example gas yourself with carbon monoxide because of exhaust failure)(happened to me in 2001), loss of orientation, i.e. in clouds if the weather closes in, you stuff up your flight plan and suddenly find the sun go down on you, etc. pp. An other reason for me is that I will heavily modify my Zodiac (again), I picked up a Fiat G91 Jet canopy in Europe on my last holiday, it weights only 46 lb and I couldn't resist. So my Zodiac will be a tandem taildragger XL with a rear hinging top-gun canopy, and that is going far enough off the beaten track to justify the BRS on top of all the usual reasons :-) What intrigues me is your notion that the landing speed of a Zodiac is not much faster than you can run. You must be very swift on your feet! My HD Zodies all touched down at around 80 km/h... I would love to go with a Corvair, but they are heavy and there are not many in Australia, and at the end of the day the Suzuki installation will only set me back $4000.- The engine comes from a Suzuki Swift GTI, and there are quite a few on the market. I will let you guys know how I go, and wether the engine is a viable option for our class of aircraft. And if the bird doesn't turn out too ugly I might post a picture :-) Cheers Chris from Oz ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:02:40 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: G13 engine --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz >What intrigues me is your notion that the landing speed of a Zodiac is not >much faster than you can run. You must be very swift on your feet! My HD >Zodies all touched down at around 80 km/h... I agree with your numbers about landing speed. OK, I exaggerated a little about how slow this landing speed is. On the other hand, it is a lot slower than some single engine planes. The USA standard for maximum stall speed is around 70 knots (if I remember correctly) and some experimental planes don't meet that. As I understand it, it is normal for jets to stall around 150 Kts. By comparison the 35 kts speed of the Zodiac is very slow. I guess I am just too old fashioned to want to give up control of my airplane to an explosive parachute. I can't argue with your notion that carbon monoxide poisoning could be a real problem. On the other hand, I don't think I would have any big problem with weather or loss of daylight that would make a parachute a better pilot than I am. And, with the slow landing speed and higher altitude where I prefer to fly it seems unlikely that I would find myself without power and with no alternatives about where to land. Lastly, I don't really believe a one-off design for an airplane and associated parachute would really be guaranteed to be safe. Still, I realize my pilot skills might be significantly better than some people who build Zodiacs. I also realize that installation of a BRS on this class of plane is common in some parts of the world. While I firmly believe a Zodiac pilot's money would be better spent on some good training in basic instrument flying, night flying, and related stuff, I also can't fault anyone who would prefer to spend the money and weight for a BRS. Paul XL barely started Do not archive --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:44:26 AM PST US From: "Phil Maxson" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL Main gear routing --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" I went through the same dilema. I opted to use an adel clamp to hold he line against the back of the landing gear. I think the idea of using a router to cut a slot in the trailing edge of the landing gear is slick, but I had enough trouble using the router to clean up the edges where I cut the landing gear to hold the wheel hub. It looked like too much trouble to me. My way doesn't look too bad after all. I think it's completely an asthetics thing. Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair Northwest New Jersey >From: Lincoln Probst >Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Main gear routing > >Well I have un-routed landing gear... I happen to own a router that I never >have >used, what bit would I use to route the 1/4" slot into the leading and >trailing >edges of the landing gear? Or would I be better off sending it to a >machine shop? >Or, just not do it.... ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:39 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" flat belts will always try to climb to the high side of a flat pulley, if you will look at any catalog of belt conveyor products the drive and tension pulleys will always be crowned. Even bucket elevator pulleys are crowned. I spent ten years designing bulk material handling conveyors, and my experience was that if a belt could not be trained with a crowned pulley, and the shafts were square with each other, then the problem was with the plys in the belt construction. Russell J. do not archive /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// This is the problem exactly. The belts have a manufacturing tolerance, in most applications the belt is probably going to be ok, in this setting the belt is pushed to the higher loading. In a pulley crowned set up a perfectly flat belt will try to center, if the belts plys are off any at all it will take off downhill from the crowned pulley even faster. To set the record straight I am VERY happy with me Belter Air redrive, if I had a V-6 or stock V-8 Chevy the Belted Air unit is by far the best thing on the market..... I told Jess @ Belted Air what I was going to do and he under estimated my ability to dial in a new motor combination. I probably didnt tell him I was a professional racing engine builder in a previous life. He worked with me through some issues till all weak points were indentified and corrected. I can assure you no other redrive manufacturer would have done that. I am also a machinist too so all you guys who think engineering a fireall forward and getting one to work is easy better rethink it. It is not for the feint of heart thats for sure. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:54 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Main gear routing (Heat Treating?) --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Maybe the drawings have changed since I got mine, but 6-G-3-1 clearly says "Cold Bend" for the main gear. This is the way I had mine bent (cold). There's no mention of "heat treating." As for cutting 6061-T6 aluminum with a router and a carbide-tipped bit, it cuts like butter. A jig can easily be made to cut a groove in the gear edge if desired. I routed the edges (as described in the drawing as "Routered Edge") of my main gear with no problem. It does make a mess of aluminum chips on the floor. Compared to most of the parts of the 601XL, the main gear is a huge, heavy hunk of aluminum. Routing a 1/4" groove in the trailing or leading edge won't affect it structurally for our application. Happy Building, Scott Laughlin www.cooknwithgas.com Engine Assembly in Progress --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz I understand the landing gear part you refer to is a heat treated metal part. This is not the kind of material your router was designed to cut. --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:53 AM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Main gear routing (Heat Treating?) --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez Scott, How did you bent your main gear? William Dominguez 601XL Corvair Working on tail --- N5SL wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL > > > Maybe the drawings have changed since I got mine, > but 6-G-3-1 clearly says "Cold Bend" for the main > gear. This is the way I had mine bent (cold). > There's no mention of "heat treating." > > As for cutting 6061-T6 aluminum with a router and a > carbide-tipped bit, it cuts like butter. A jig can > easily be made to cut a groove in the gear edge if > desired. I routed the edges (as described in the > drawing as "Routered Edge") of my main gear with no > problem. It does make a mess of aluminum chips on > the floor. > > Compared to most of the parts of the 601XL, the main > gear is a huge, heavy hunk of aluminum. Routing a > 1/4" groove in the trailing or leading edge won't > affect it structurally for our application. > > Happy Building, > > Scott Laughlin > www.cooknwithgas.com > Engine Assembly in Progress > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz > > > I understand the landing gear part you refer to is a > heat treated > metal part. This is not the kind of material your > router was > designed to cut. > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:15 AM PST US From: japhillipsga@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Wheel Pants Problem --> Zenith-List message posted by: japhillipsga@aol.com Dear Thread Friends, some months ago we all read ZAC's notice about cracks in the front landing gear wheel support and the fix ZAC sold as a doubler you just drill and bolt on the orginal support. Problem is I purchased and fitted the front wheel pants without the doubler, painted pretty and boxed up for mounting later. Then I purchased and installed the doubler. Tried last night to assemble and mount the front pants and BANG they don't fit anymore. So I had to drimmel out rather large holes near the top to allow for the increased girth of the wheel support doubler, fiberglass patchs about the size of your hand on both sides, fill, sand and re-paint. FWIW if you order the doubler from ZAC their standard wheel pant will not fit without significant modification. If ZAC does not have pants for installation with the doubler modification I recommend we builders look to other sources for that front gear pants. Hope this saves some of you all $, effort and lost flying time. Best re gards, Bill of Georgia -----Original Message----- From: Zenith-List Digest Server Subject: Zenith-List Digest: 23 Msgs - 07/28/05 * ================================================== Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================== Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2005-07-28.html Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2005-07-28.txt ================================================ EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================ Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 07/28/05: 23 Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:43 AM - Re: suzuki g13 (BIANCO Tadeusz Forgacz) 2. 12:53 AM - Re: Suzuki G13 engine (Craig Payne) 3. 03:10 AM - Re: Suzuki G13 engine with BRS (Paul Mulwitz) 4. 06:04 AM - Re: Suzuki G13 engine with BRS (William Dominguez) 5. 06:28 AM - Re: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! (Larry) 6. 06:39 AM - Re: Carburetor Synchronization (Robert Schoenberger) 7. 06:53 AM - Re: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! (Bill Cardell) 8. 07:47 AM - Re: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! (Ed Jeffko) 9. 08:21 AM - Re: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! (Russell J.) 10. 09:16 AM - Re: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! (Paul Mulwitz) 11. 10:52 AM - Re: Suzuki G13 engine with BRS (Traveling Man) 12. 10:59 AM - Re: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! (baileys) 13. 12:21 PM - Re: Suzuki G13 engine (Gary Gower) 14. 12:55 PM - Re: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! (Rich Dodson) 15. 01:34 PM - 701 Progress... (Tommy Walker) 16. 01:43 PM - Re: Suzuki G13 engine (Eddie Seve) 17. 02:38 PM - 601XL Main gear routing (Lincoln Probst) 18. 02:38 PM - 601XL Main gear routing (Lincoln Probst) 19. 05:08 PM - Re: 601XL Main gear routing (Paul Mulwitz) 20. 06:01 PM - Re: Suzuki G13 engine (Larry McFarland) 21. 06:31 PM - Re: Suzuki G13 engine (Craig Payne) 22. 08:40 PM - Re: Suzuki G13 engine (gary) 23. 10:16 PM - Re: 601XL Main gear routing (Brandon Tucker) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:43:41 AM PST US From: "BIANCO Tadeusz Forgacz" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: suzuki g13 Date: ...8 Jul 2005 09:42:16 +0200 (\214rodkowoeuropejs... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "BIANCO Tadeusz Forgacz" Yes, that's true - You can drive 180km/h but with NEW engine with 5-6 year old car it is also possible but for ex. some belt tension bearing will 'say no' and probably that's why some people don't like automotive engines in plane. if You prepare engine well - it has to work. of course Rotax will be the easiest choose, because of ease of installation, weight, shape,.. but You have to pay for it. Many people in Poland flies on Subaru, BMW conversions and I always hear best opinions. Problem may occur with gearbox, not with engine. I don't know anybody flying with Suzuki G13 - but will ask. It may be as good as BMW conversion (fuel inject) and it has turbine - may be interresting. In which model man can find that engine? Tadeusz Forgacz CH601HD just started Poland ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:53:58 AM PST US From: Craig Payne Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Suzuki G13 engine --> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne Here are a pair of sites you may already know about (linked from http://www.ch601.org/engines.htm): http://www.raven-rotor.com/ http://nessaaircraft.net/index.htm I don't think the conversion you are planning is all that common. Speaking for myself I would want to talk to a number of people who have *personally* flown that engine before I tried it. But more power to you, let's keep the "experiment" in Experimental Aviation. I'm going with the somewhat proven Corvair conversion ala William Wynne. -- Craig chrisoz@bmail.com.au wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: chrisoz@bmail.com.au > > Ladies (?) and Gentlemen, > > I have recently started to build an other Zodiac, and am pondering the engine > question at the moment. I have had Rotax 912 (twice), EA 81 and Verner in my > last Zodies, and except for the Verner which turned out to be a bit anaemic > (but sooo easy to install) the engines were fine, with the Subaru a bit on the > heavy side. > > Without trying to start an other line of the engine debate, due to financial > constrains and the non availability of second hand Rotax 912 over here in > Australia I am seriously thinking about a Suzuki G13 four cylinder engine, 16 > valves, turbo-charged and fuel injected, about 125 hp. I actually already > bought the car with the overhauled engine installed, so I can test drive for a > while. I intend to mate it with a geared reduction drive from Air Trikes in > Canada. Oh, and put a BRS system in the plane, better safe than sorry, and > $3600 well spent. > > Now here is my question: > > Has anybody got experience with the engine set up, any comments or points to > ponder, warnings (not the automotive engines should not fly bit)? > > BTW, I have always been wondering about the "automotive engines are not > designed to run at high rpm over extended periods of time " bit. I originally > hail from Germany, and there is no speed limit there. I grew up going 180 km/h > in my BMW on a regular basis, never getting lower than 5000 odd rpm, along > with lots of other cars in the speed range. And the engines seem to cope just > fine. > > Just a thought... > > Cheers, > > Chris from Oz > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:10:53 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Suzuki G13 engine with BRS --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz >put a BRS system in the plane, better safe than sorry, and >$3600 well spent. Sorry, Chris. I don't have any information on your engine question. Instead, I have a question of my own. Why spend all that money on a BRS? What is the thinking that would lead you to consider this option? Are you expecting a major structural failure? Perhaps an engine failure over endless water? I guess I can't imagine what circumstances would get a pilot to deploy a parachute on a plane that lands only a little faster than a man can run. Paul XL barely started ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:21 AM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Suzuki G13 engine with BRS --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez Allow me to give you my answer to that question even if was not directed at me (I hope Chris will give his). My answer is with another question: Can you be 100% sure that the plane you build or the propeller you use would not have a structural failure? Or you will never enter in a tail spin at 1000 feet. A failure in the propeller might mean your whole engine departing the airframe (it has happened even with certified planes flying with passengers) and your plane becoming a glider with the CG close the tail. There might be other scenarios but dont want to get this too long. I know a structural failure is a low probability event but as Chris says better safe than sorry William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL with Corvair Working on tail --- Paul Mulwitz wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz > > > > >put a BRS system in the plane, better safe than > sorry, and > >$3600 well spent. > > > Sorry, Chris. I don't have any information on your > engine > question. Instead, I have a question of my own. > > Why spend all that money on a BRS? What is the > thinking that would > lead you to consider this option? Are you expecting > a major > structural failure? Perhaps an engine failure over > endless water? > > I guess I can't imagine what circumstances would get > a pilot to > deploy a parachute on a plane that lands only a > little faster than a > man can run. > > Paul > XL barely started > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:35 AM PST US From: "Larry" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" Well I don't understand how a crown on a pulley can keep the belt centered unless the belt is concaved. It seems to me that a flat belt would want to wander to one side or the other of the crown. Ben Haas's thought of dishing the center makes a lot more sense to me. Someone explane this crown logic to me, in good old boy terms. Maybe I'm just not seeing something. Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701 ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim cantrell" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! > --> Zenith-List message posted by: jim cantrell > > In my experience with flat belt drives if you crown the pulley the belt will > center itself. > FWIW dept. > Jim Cantrell > Applying adhesive to spar and lift strut brackets today. > Kitfox 5 TD > Do not archive. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Cardell" > To: > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Cardell" > > > > Strangely enough, from what I understand you actually want the opposite > > of a dish in the sprockets to center the belt, IOW, the center should be > > higher. Counter-intuitive, but if you look at idlers, etc, they are > > usually made slightly high centered. > > > > > > TurboDog's Dad > > Bill Cardell > > www.flyinmiata.com > > -- > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" > > --> > > > > > > My redrive does the same thing, the belt wandering is from poor > > manufacturing. I have been through three belts and all three have had > > different patterns of moving. Jess at Belted Air sees this all the time. > > My drive makes a slight noise too at idle too with the cowling off. If > > you are concerned about your top bearing you can simply grab onto the > > prop and pull up and down and in and out. If the bearing is going bad > > you will feel it. It will also run hot so feel it after you shut down > > the next time.You need to do this pretty quickly as the heat from the > > engine will transfer into the redrive fast.If the belt is slightly > > larger on one side then the other it will travel that way when full > > power is applied. The one way to help this is of the redrive > > manuracturer will machine a slight dish in the top sprocket, that way > > the belt will always try to fall into the middle of the sprocket. THe > > redrive is the only thing I did not fabricate on my plane and it is the > > only thing that has trie d to kill me. Of course I am transferring > > several times more power through it then they advertise it will take. > > Oh, the fun or experimenting !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > > Ben Haas > > N801BH > > www.haaspowerair.com > > > > > > > -- > > -- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:59 AM PST US From: "Robert Schoenberger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Carburetor Synchronization --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" Jeff . . . go to John Croke's site at Homebuilthelp.com. He has a very professional CD that goes through the complete 912 installation. It's well worth the money, and it will save you a lot of time and prevent possible mistakes. His other CD's are equally excellent. Robert Schoenberger 701 55% ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey A Beachy" Subject: Zenith-List: Carburetor Synchronization > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jeffrey A Beachy > > Hello list, > > my Aug 2005 EAA Sport Pilot contains an article by Philip Lockwood on > installing Rotax 912 engines. While I am far from that point (working on > the wings currently) I will be installing a 912ULS on my 701. The article > mentions that the April and May 2004 issues of EAA Sport Pilot had a . . . > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:25 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! From: "Bill Cardell" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Cardell" This http://www.belttechnologies.com/designinfo/crown.html might help some. TurboDog's Dad Bill Cardell www.flyinmiata.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Subject: Re: Zenith-List: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" Well I don't understand how a crown on a pulley can keep the belt centered unless the belt is concaved. It seems to me that a flat belt would want to wander to one side or the other of the crown. Ben Haas's thought of dishing the center makes a lot more sense to me. Someone explane this crown logic to me, in good old boy terms. Maybe I'm just not seeing something. Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701 ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim cantrell" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! > --> Zenith-List message posted by: jim cantrell > > In my experience with flat belt drives if you crown the pulley the > belt will > center itself. > FWIW dept. > Jim Cantrell > Applying adhesive to spar and lift strut brackets today. > Kitfox 5 TD > Do not archive. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Cardell" > To: > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Cardell" > > --> > > > > Strangely enough, from what I understand you actually want the > > opposite of a dish in the sprockets to center the belt, IOW, the > > center should be higher. Counter-intuitive, but if you look at > > idlers, etc, they are usually made slightly high centered. > > > > > > TurboDog's Dad > > Bill Cardell > > www.flyinmiata.com > > -- > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" > > --> > > > > > > My redrive does the same thing, the belt wandering is from poor > > manufacturing. I have been through three belts and all three have > > had different patterns of moving. Jess at Belted Air sees this all the time. > > My drive makes a slight noise too at idle too with the cowling off. > > If you are concerned about your top bearing you can simply grab onto > > the prop and pull up and down and in and out. If the bearing is > > going bad you will feel it. It will also run hot so feel it after > > you shut down the next time.You need to do this pretty quickly as > > the heat from the engine will transfer into the redrive fast.If the > > belt is slightly larger on one side then the other it will travel > > that way when full power is applied. The one way to help this is of > > the redrive manuracturer will machine a slight dish in the top > > sprocket, that way the belt will always try to fall into the middle > > of the sprocket. THe redrive is the only thing I did not fabricate > > on my plane and it is the only thing that has trie d to kill me. Of > > course I am transferring several times more power through it then they advertise it will take. > > Oh, the fun or experimenting !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > > Ben Haas > > N801BH > > www.haaspowerair.com > > > > > > > -- > > -- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:54 AM PST US From: "Ed Jeffko" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ed Jeffko" I have an older belt drive, it has a shoulder on both sides of the drive pully. I'll find out if it works when I fire it up. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" > > Well I don't understand how a crown on a pulley can keep the belt centered > unless the belt is concaved. It seems to me that a flat belt would want to > wander to one side or the other of the crown. Ben Haas's thought of dishing > the center makes a lot more sense to me. Someone explane this crown logic > to me, in good old boy terms. Maybe I'm just not seeing something. > Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jim cantrell" > To: > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: jim cantrell > > > > In my experience with flat belt drives if you crown the pulley the belt > will > > center itself. > > FWIW dept. > > Jim Cantrell > > Applying adhesive to spar and lift strut brackets today. > > Kitfox 5 TD > > Do not archive. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bill Cardell" > > To: > > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! > > > > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Cardell" > > > > > > Strangely enough, from what I understand you actually want the opposite > > > of a dish in the sprockets to center the belt, IOW, the center should be > > > higher. Counter-intuitive, but if you look at idlers, etc, they are > > > usually made slightly high centered. > > > > > > > > > TurboDog's Dad > > > Bill Cardell > > > www.flyinmiata.com > > > -- > > > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" > > > --> > > > > > > > > > My redrive does the same thing, the belt wandering is from poor > > > manufacturing. I have been through three belts and all three have had > > > different patterns of moving. Jess at Belted Air sees this all the time. > > > My drive makes a slight noise too at idle too with the cowling off. If > > > you are concerned about your top bearing you can simply grab onto the > > > prop and pull up and down and in and out. If the bearing is going bad > > > you will feel it. It will also run hot so feel it after you shut down > > > the next time.You need to do this pretty quickly as the heat from the > > > engine will transfer into the redrive fast.If the belt is slightly > > > larger on one side then the other it will travel that way when full > > > power is applied. The one way to help this is of the redrive > > > manuracturer will machine a slight dish in the top sprocket, that way > > > the belt will always try to fall into the middle of the sprocket. THe > > > redrive is the only thing I did not fabricate on my plane and it is the > > > only thing that has trie d to kill me. Of course I am transferring > > > several times more power through it then they advertise it will take. > > > Oh, the fun or experimenting !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > > > > Ben Haas > > > N801BH > > > www.haaspowerair.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:21:15 AM PST US From: "Russell J." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Russell J." > Well I don't understand how a crown on a pulley can keep the belt centered > unless the belt is concaved. It seems to me that a flat belt would want > to > wander to one side or the other of the crown. Ben Haas's thought of > dishing > the center makes a lot more sense to me. Someone explane this crown > logic > to me, in good old boy terms. Maybe I'm just not seeing something. > Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701 ++++++++++++++++++++++++ flat belts will always try to climb to the high side of a flat pulley, if you will look at any catalog of belt conveyor products the drive and tension pulleys will always be crowned. Even bucket elevator pulleys are crowned. I spent ten years designing bulk material handling conveyors, and my experience was that if a belt could not be trained with a crowned pulley, and the shafts were square with each other, then the problem was with the plys in the belt construction. Russell J. do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:17 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz I can't really explain why a crown keeps a belt centered, but I can give an example of where this technique is used. Just look at the bearing wheels on a band saw. Paul XL Barely Started At 06:27 AM 7/28/2005, you wrote: >Well I don't understand how a crown on a pulley can keep the belt centered >unless the belt is concaved. It seems to me that a flat belt would want to >wander to one side or the other of the crown. Ben Haas's thought of dishing >the center makes a lot more sense to me. Someone explane this crown logic >to me, in good old boy terms. Maybe I'm just not seeing something. >Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701 --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:18 AM PST US From: "Traveling Man" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Suzuki G13 engine with BRS --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Traveling Man" Alow me to add my two cents: Structural failure is not the only reason to add a BRS to your aircraft. Engine out at low altitudes and over unlandable terrain make up a large percentage of the BRS "Saves" list. I think of it as life insurance that could save my life, and yes, I'll be installing one in my 601. If I can ever get started on it :) ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:55 AM PST US From: "baileys" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "baileys" Could it be that the crown is traveling faster in terms of surface feet per minute and thus is carrying most of the load which tends to keep it centered? Bob B. ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Mulwitz To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:12 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz I can't really explain why a crown keeps a belt centered, but I can give an example of where this technique is used. Just look at the bearing wheels on a band saw. Paul XL Barely Started At 06:27 AM 7/28/2005, you wrote: >Well I don't understand how a crown on a pulley can keep the belt centered >unless the belt is concaved. It seems to me that a flat belt would want to >wander to one side or the other of the crown. Ben Haas's thought of dishing >the center makes a lot more sense to me. Someone explane this crown logic >to me, in good old boy terms. Maybe I'm just not seeing something. >Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701 --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:21:09 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Suzuki G13 engine --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower The only real expert I know about the 1,300 cc Geo/Suzuky conversion (I research only by internet) is in Canada. is Mr. Jim Alexandre. He has a great "do it yourself" page. He does not sell anything of the reduction or fuel system conversion parts... Very good page: http://www.nessaaircraft.net/ Saludos GaryGower. Guadalajara, Mexico. chrisoz@bmail.com.au wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: chrisoz@bmail.com.au Ladies (?) and Gentlemen, I have recently started to build an other Zodiac, and am pondering the engine question at the moment. I have had Rotax 912 (twice), EA 81 and Verner in my last Zodies, and except for the Verner which turned out to be a bit anaemic (but sooo easy to install) the engines were fine, with the Subaru a bit on the heavy side. Without trying to start an other line of the engine debate, due to financial constrains and the non availability of second hand Rotax 912 over here in Australia I am seriously thinking about a Suzuki G13 four cylinder engine, 16 valves, turbo-charged and fuel injected, about 125 hp. I actually already bought the car with the overhauled engine installed, so I can test drive for a while. I intend to mate it with a geared reduction drive from Air Trikes in Canada. Oh, and put a BRS system in the plane, better safe than sorry, and $3600 well spent. Now here is my question: Has anybody got experience with the engine set up, any comments or points to ponder, warnings (not the automotive engines should not fly bit)? BTW, I have always been wondering about the "automotive engines are not designed to run at high rpm over extended periods of time " bit. I originally hail from Germany, and there is no speed limit there. I grew up going 180 km/h in my BMW on a regular basis, never getting lower than 5000 odd rpm, along with lots of other cars in the speed range. And the engines seem to cope just fine. Just a thought... Cheers, Chris from Oz ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:55:14 PM PST US From: Rich Dodson Subject: Re: Zenith-List: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rich Dodson Or could it be that the centrifugal force of the belt going around the pulley tends to elongate it temporarily (all the "slack" is taken up as it comes over the top) so the crown is put in to make sure the pulley stays in contact with the belt? - I should not have slept through all those classes after lunch! ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:34:06 PM PST US From: "Tommy Walker" Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Progress... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" After several months I'm beginning to see some progress. I started work on my kit in December. To date I've finished the Rudder, Stabilizer, Elevator (and trim), Lt. Wing, Rt. Wing, Lt. Flaperon, Rt. Flaperon, Lt. Slat, Rt. Slat. 2/3 of the A4 rivets are gone too. I'm taking a week off to work in Oklahoma in order to earn money for a Comm radio and a few other goodies. I think I will probably go the Icomm radio route, plus, would like to get a transponder if I make enough money this coming week. Those of you who look in on my web cam will see less activity than usual. So far, it has been a learning experience. An old boss told me that experience is a hard teacher, it gives you the test, then teaches you the lesson. I am 62 and retired. I try to work on the plane a little every day and it looks like it is going to be a 1500 hour project. When I started my goal was to fly October 31 of this year. It doesn't look I will make that, so I am shooting for a December date. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the listers in the Zenith-List for their well thought out advice. Even though many of us aren't brave enough to offer many comments, we do study a lot of the discussions. For several years, I was on the AOPA WebBoard. AOPA finally shut it down because of a few guys who enjoyed harassing the regular posters. It got to the point that you couldn't ask a question or make a comment without two or three guys taking things out of context and they next thing you knew, it was a shouting match. This is much better. Thanks for all the good advice and especially the good attitudes. Tommy Walker in Alabama http://69.92.2.166/img/main_fs.htm ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:43:32 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Suzuki G13 engine From: "Eddie Seve" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Eddie Seve" Hi Chris, I live in Sydney and fly out of Cessnock in the Hunter Valley where a friend of mine has a similar Suzuki engine installation in his Loehle P51 Mustang with reduction drive and 4 blade brolga prop, performance appears to be excellent. Please contact me off list and I can supply phone number etc. Regards, Eddie Seve eddie.seve@clarity.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of chrisoz@bmail.com.au Subject: Zenith-List: Suzuki G13 engine --> Zenith-List message posted by: chrisoz@bmail.com.au Ladies (?) and Gentlemen, I have recently started to build an other Zodiac, and am pondering the engine question at the moment. I have had Rotax 912 (twice), EA 81 and Verner in my last Zodies, and except for the Verner which turned out to be a bit anaemic (but sooo easy to install) the engines were fine, with the Subaru a bit on the heavy side. Without trying to start an other line of the engine debate, due to financial constrains and the non availability of second hand Rotax 912 over here in Australia I am seriously thinking about a Suzuki G13 four cylinder engine, 16 valves, turbo-charged and fuel injected, about 125 hp. I actually already bought the car with the overhauled engine installed, so I can test drive for a while. I intend to mate it with a geared reduction drive from Air Trikes in Canada. Oh, and put a BRS system in the plane, better safe than sorry, and $3600 well spent. Now here is my question: Has anybody got experience with the engine set up, any comments or points to ponder, warnings (not the automotive engines should not fly bit)? BTW, I have always been wondering about the "automotive engines are not designed to run at high rpm over extended periods of time " bit. I originally hail from Germany, and there is no speed limit there. I grew up going 180 km/h in my BMW on a regular basis, never getting lower than 5000 odd rpm, along with lots of other cars in the speed range. And the engines seem to cope just fine. Just a thought... Cheers, Chris from Oz ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:38:14 PM PST US From: Lincoln Probst Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Main gear routing --> Zenith-List message posted by: Lincoln Probst Well I have un-routed landing gear... I happen to own a router that I never have used, what bit would I use to route the 1/4" slot into the leading and trailing edges of the landing gear? Or would I be better off sending it to a machine shop? Or, just not do it.... I think this is just so you can put the brake-lines into the edge... the assembly guide just says use clips which isn't as pretty but is what I may do just for simplicity's sake. Thanks for help! Lincoln www.1Linc.com 601XL - fuselage ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:38:14 PM PST US From: Lincoln Probst Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Main gear routing --> Zenith-List message posted by: Lincoln Probst Well I have un-routed landing gear... I happen to own a router that I never have used, what bit would I use to route the 1/4" slot into the leading and trailing edges of the landing gear? Or would I be better off sending it to a machine shop? Or, just not do it.... I think this is just so you can put the brake-lines into the edge... the assembly guide just says use clips which isn't as pretty but is what I may do just for simplicity's sake. Thanks for help! Lincoln www.1Linc.com 601XL - fuselage ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:08:55 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Main gear routing --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz I understand the landing gear part you refer to is a heat treated metal part. This is not the kind of material your router was designed to cut. Your router is meant to cut large flat pieces of wood rather than skinny pieces of metal. I won't go so far as advising you how to deal with your design problem. I would say you should consider contacting ZAC if you intend to mess around with the structure of the landing gear by cutting away some of the metal. Paul XL barely started >Well I have un-routed landing gear... I happen to own a router that >I never have >used, what bit would I use to route the 1/4" slot into the leading >and trailing >edges of the landing gear? Or would I be better off sending it to >a machine shop? >Or, just not do it.... > >I think this is just so you can put the brake-lines into the edge... >the assembly >guide just says use clips which isn't as pretty but is what I may do just for >simplicity's sake. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:20 PM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Suzuki G13 engine --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Chris, I'd think you'd have considered the Corvair after your experiences. Lots of data, good history, most mistakes already pointed out. very inexpensive. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive chrisoz@bmail.com.au wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: chrisoz@bmail.com.au > >Ladies (?) and Gentlemen, > >I have recently started to build an other Zodiac, and am pondering the engine >question at the moment. I have had Rotax 912 (twice), EA 81 and Verner in my >last Zodies, and except for the Verner which turned out to be a bit anaemic >(but sooo easy to install) the engines were fine, with the Subaru a bit on the >heavy side. > >Without trying to start an other line of the engine debate, due to financial >constrains and the non availability of second hand Rotax 912 over here in >Australia I am seriously thinking about a Suzuki G13 four cylinder engine, 16 >valves, turbo-charged and fuel injected, about 125 hp. I actually already >bought the car with the overhauled engine installed, so I can test drive for a >while. I intend to mate it with a geared reduction drive from Air Trikes in >Canada. Oh, and put a BRS system in the plane, better safe than sorry, and >$3600 well spent. > >Now here is my question: > >Has anybody got experience with the engine set up, any comments or points to >ponder, warnings (not the automotive engines should not fly bit)? > >BTW, I have always been wondering about the "automotive engines are not >designed to run at high rpm over extended periods of time " bit. I originally >hail from Germany, and there is no speed limit there. I grew up going 180 km/h >in my BMW on a regular basis, never getting lower than 5000 odd rpm, along >with lots of other cars in the speed range. And the engines seem to cope just >fine. > >Just a thought... > >Cheers, > > Chris from Oz > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:31:24 PM PST US From: Craig Payne Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Suzuki G13 engine --> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne But not terribly available in Australia? -- Craig Larry McFarland wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland > > Chris, > I'd think you'd have considered the Corvair after your experiences. > Lots of data, good history, most mistakes already pointed out. very > inexpensive. > > Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > do not archive > > chrisoz@bmail.com.au wrote: > > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: chrisoz@bmail.com.au >> >>Ladies (?) and Gentlemen, >> >>I have recently started to build an other Zodiac, and am pondering the engine >>question at the moment. I have had Rotax 912 (twice), EA 81 and Verner in my >>last Zodies, and except for the Verner which turned out to be a bit anaemic >>(but sooo easy to install) the engines were fine, with the Subaru a bit on the >>heavy side. >> >>Without trying to start an other line of the engine debate, due to financial >>constrains and the non availability of second hand Rotax 912 over here in >>Australia I am seriously thinking about a Suzuki G13 four cylinder engine, 16 >>valves, turbo-charged and fuel injected, about 125 hp. I actually already >>bought the car with the overhauled engine installed, so I can test drive for a >>while. I intend to mate it with a geared reduction drive from Air Trikes in >>Canada. Oh, and put a BRS system in the plane, better safe than sorry, and >>$3600 well spent. >> >>Now here is my question: >> >>Has anybody got experience with the engine set up, any comments or points to >>ponder, warnings (not the automotive engines should not fly bit)? >> >>BTW, I have always been wondering about the "automotive engines are not >>designed to run at high rpm over extended periods of time " bit. I originally >>hail from Germany, and there is no speed limit there. I grew up going 180 km/h >>in my BMW on a regular basis, never getting lower than 5000 odd rpm, along >>with lots of other cars in the speed range. And the engines seem to cope just >>fine. >> >>Just a thought... >> >>Cheers, >> >>Chris from Oz >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:21 PM PST US From: "gary" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Suzuki G13 engine --> Zenith-List message posted by: "gary" > Australia I am seriously thinking about a Suzuki G13 four cylinder engine, > 16 > valves, turbo-charged and fuel injected, about 125 hp. I actually already > bought the car with the overhauled engine installed, so I can test drive > for a > while. I intend to mate it with a geared reduction drive from Air Trikes > in > Canada. Oh, and put a BRS system in the plane, better safe than sorry, and > $3600 well spent. > Has anybody got experience with the engine set up, any comments or points > to > ponder, warnings (not the automotive engines should not fly bit)? try http://www.tampabayaerosport.com/ and look under aircraft - Klass - and scroll to bottom. they are selling the suzukis installed as an option, should be some good info from them. probably the same source as Air Trikes. gary ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:55 PM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Main gear routing --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker Lincoln, I built my own gear, and routered the edges with a standard wood carbide bit. The bit worked fine for two sets of gear, on 6061 T6. If you have a good router table, you might be able to pull off grooves, but I tried on a piece of scrap metal with no luck at all. If you are asking for opinion, I would just leave them external. I am not building mine for warp speed, or for Osh grand champion... 2 cents, Brandon ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:26:29 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Main gear BENDING --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL William: I drew it out in Visio on my PC and had it plotted full-size on a huge sheet of paper (Thanks Mark Townsend and David Barth for the idea). Next I used my skill saw with a normal wood-cutting, carbide-tipped blade to cut the aluminum according to the plans. Next I used my Sears Craftsman Router to make the round edges. I cut the nose fork the same way. Then I brought the full-size plot and the hunk of aluminum to a local fab shop with a huge press brake. The guy did it after hours because the shop didn't want the liability. I paid him $100 for the main gear and the nose fork. The aluminum was purchased from a vendor on Ebay who sells cutoffs. William Dominguez wrote: Scott, How did you bent your main gear? William Dominguez --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:41 AM PST US From: rical26 Subject: Zenith-List: 1993 ch601HD for sale --> Zenith-List message posted by: rical26 HI all, for medical reason I have to sell my 601, The plane is in the Ottawa,Ontario,Canada region. For more info and picture please e-mail me at rical26@rogers.com Fly save! Richard Do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:03 AM PST US From: japhillipsga@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Suzuki G13 engine --> Zenith-List message posted by: japhillipsga@aol.com Chris, the other day at our airport another builder guy that seems to know what he's talking about (?)was raving about some new engine built by Subaru that was built just for airplanes, loads of hp, no turbo, etc, etc. and that it was the best of everything ? I have my own opinion about "car" motors and airplanes, so I'm not very well versed in the subject, but you might investigate this engine. FWIW, best of luck, Bill -----Original Message----- From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Suzuki G13 engine --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Chris, I'd think you'd have considered the Corvair after your experiences. Lots of data, good history, most mistakes already pointed out. very inexpensive. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive chrisoz@bmail.com.au wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: chrisoz@bmail.com.au > >Ladies (?) and Gentlemen, > >I have recently started to build an other Zodiac, and am pondering the engine >question at the moment. I have had Rotax 912 (twice), EA 81 and Verner in my >last Zodies, and except for the Verner which turned out to be a bit anaemic >(but sooo easy to install) the engines were fine, with the Subaru a bit on the >heavy side. > >Without trying to start an other line of the engine debate, due to financial >constrains and the non availability of second hand Rotax 912 over here in >Australia I am seriously thinking about a Suzuki G13 four cylinder engine, 16 >valves, turbo-charged and fuel injected, about 125 hp. I actually already >bought the car with the overhauled engine installed, so I can test drive for a >while. I intend to mate it with a geared reduction drive from Air Trikes in >Canada. Oh, and put a BRS system in the plane, better safe than sorry, and >$3600 well spent. > >Now here is my question: > >Has anybody got experience with the engine set up, any comments or points to >ponder, warnings (not the automotive engines should not fly bit)? > >BTW, I have always been wondering about the "automotive engines are not >designed to run at high rpm over extended periods of time " bit. I originally >hail from Germany, and there is no speed limit there. I grew up going 180 km/h >in my BMW on a regular basis, never getting lower than 5000 odd rpm, along >with lots of other cars in the speed range. And the engines seem to cope just >fine. > >Just a thought... > >Cheers, > > Chris from Oz > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:03 AM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Main gear BENDING --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez Thanks Scott. William Dominguez do not archive --- N5SL wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL > > > William: > > I drew it out in Visio on my PC and had it plotted > full-size on a huge sheet of paper (Thanks Mark > Townsend and David Barth for the idea). > > Next I used my skill saw with a normal wood-cutting, > carbide-tipped blade to cut the aluminum according > to the plans. Next I used my Sears Craftsman Router > to make the round edges. I cut the nose fork the > same way. > > Then I brought the full-size plot and the hunk of > aluminum to a local fab shop with a huge press > brake. The guy did it after hours because the shop > didn't want the liability. I paid him $100 for the > main gear and the nose fork. > > The aluminum was purchased from a vendor on Ebay who > sells cutoffs. > > William Dominguez wrote: > > Scott, > > How did you bent your main gear? > > William Dominguez > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:59 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Main gear routing (Heat Treating?) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz At 06:45 AM 7/29/2005, you wrote: >Maybe the drawings have changed since I got mine, but 6-G-3-1 >clearly says "Cold Bend" for the main gear. This is the way I had >mine bent (cold). There's no mention of "heat treating." I believe the "T6" in 6061-T6 specifies heat treating. Paul do not archive --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:53 AM PST US From: Don Mountain Subject: Zenith-List: Belt vs Gear Drives vs direct drives --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain I have been studying the discussions about engines that might work in my 601 XL recently, and have a general question about reliability of the different drive types. I realize that belt drives are probably more efficient than gear drives, but may be a little less reliable or subject to sudden breakage. I have had cam drive belts break in my car engines and stall the engine, a problem that might cause some concern in an airplane. But of course they may have a relatively predictable life span so they can be replaced while still leaving a factor of safety. Does the same go for the big propeller belt drives being sold now? Or is the friction horsepower reducing gear drives safer? I think the Rotax may have a gear drive on it. Any problems with those? Are the gear drives available for auto engines? Don 601 XL, tail and wings done ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:08 PM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Belt vs Gear Drives vs direct drives --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Don, I believe belts have the same reliability within their expected lifespans as crankshafts. I had a Subaru with a adapter plate for a Rotax C drive and in stead, purchased a Stratus belt redrive because the Rotax gear drives were problematic at that time. After looking at the work that the Stratus engine represented, I just returned the redrive and bought the whole Stratus engine. I belive you get reliability that is as good one as the other so long as you replace the belt every 300 hours and pay close attention to alignment and tension. I havn't heard of a gear drive going out for a long time so maybe we're in for an interesting time if the quality of the belts has changed. Larry McFarland do not archive Don Mountain wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain > >I have been studying the discussions about engines >that might work in my 601 XL recently, and have a >general question about reliability of the different >drive types. I realize that belt drives are probably >more efficient than gear drives, but may be a little >less reliable or subject to sudden breakage. I have >had cam drive belts break in my car engines and stall >the engine, a problem that might cause some concern in >an airplane. But of course they may have a relatively >predictable life span so they can be replaced while >still leaving a factor of safety. Does the same go >for the big propeller belt drives being sold now? Or >is the friction horsepower reducing gear drives safer? > I think the Rotax may have a gear drive on it. Any >problems with those? Are the gear drives available >for auto engines? > >Don >601 XL, tail and wings done > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:55 PM PST US From: "R. Saarinen" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 1993 ch601HD for sale --> Zenith-List message posted by: "R. Saarinen" Richard, Can you send me information, Photos, Price, if built from Kit, who built by, (etc) on you aircraft Please. Regards Ron Saarinen ----- Original Message ----- From: "rical26" Subject: Zenith-List: 1993 ch601HD for sale > --> Zenith-List message posted by: rical26 > > HI all, for medical reason I have to sell my 601, The plane is in the > Ottawa,Ontario,Canada region. For more info and picture please e-mail me > at > rical26@rogers.com > Fly save! > Richard > > Do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:45:38 PM PST US From: Monty Graves Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Main gear BENDING --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves Do you have name or link to the Ebay vender? Monty >The aluminum was purchased from a vendor on Ebay who sells cutoffs. > >William Dominguez wrote: ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:21 PM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Zenith-List: Where is page 6W12 in the drawings? --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez I'm preparing to start cutting the aluminum sheets based on the part layout from CH601.org. The layout for the .040 sheets have several reserved areas for 6W12-3 and 6W12-4. However, I don't find page 6W12 in my drawings in paper or electronic. The last 6W page is 6W10, am I missing something? William Dominguez Plansbuilt 601XL with Corvair Cutting Material http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:02 PM PST US From: "Larry" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" I pulled this statement off Don Parhams' site. http://www.geocities.com/rfisubaru/whyBelt.html. And that's all I know except I've had owned belt drives, one from Don and two from RAF and never had a problem. Highest time belt redrive we know of is from Belted Air Power. He ran an aluminum block V8 engine 4000 hrs & didn`t even change the belt over 14 years. This fact was featured in Kitplanes. Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701 ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: "Bearings and Belt Drives" - oh my! > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" > > > flat belts will always try to climb to the high side of a flat pulley, if > you will look at any catalog of belt conveyor products the > drive and tension pulleys will always be crowned. > Even bucket elevator pulleys are crowned. > I spent ten years designing bulk material handling conveyors, and my > experience was that if a belt could not be trained with a crowned pulley, > and the shafts were square with each other, then the problem was with the > plys in the belt construction. > > Russell J. > > do not archive > > /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// > > This is the problem exactly. The belts have a manufacturing tolerance, in most applications the belt is probably going to be ok, in this setting the belt is pushed to the higher loading. In a pulley crowned set up a perfectly flat belt will try to center, if the belts plys are off any at all it will take off downhill from the crowned pulley even faster. To set the record straight I am VERY happy with me Belter Air redrive, if I had a V-6 or stock V-8 Chevy the Belted Air unit is by far the best thing on the market..... I told Jess @ Belted Air what I was going to do and he under estimated my ability to dial in a new motor combination. I probably didnt tell him I was a professional racing engine builder in a previous life. He worked with me through some issues till all weak points were indentified and corrected. I can assure you no other redrive manufacturer would have done that. I am also a machinist too so all you guys who think engineering a fireall forward and getting one > to work is easy better rethink it. It is not for the feint of heart thats for sure. > > do not archive > > Ben Haas > N801BH > www.haaspowerair.com > > > -- > > -- ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:12 PM PST US From: rical26 Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 1993 ch601HD for sale --> Zenith-List message posted by: rical26 Hi Ron, thanks for your interest. here are some pictures and description you asked for. Feel free to contact me if you need more info regards Richard R. Saarinen wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "R. Saarinen" > >Richard, > >Can you send me information, Photos, Price, if built from Kit, >who built by, (etc) on you aircraft Please. > > Regards > Ron Saarinen > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "rical26" >To: >Subject: Zenith-List: 1993 ch601HD for sale > > > > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: rical26 >> >>HI all, for medical reason I have to sell my 601, The plane is in the >>Ottawa,Ontario,Canada region. For more info and picture please e-mail me >>at >>rical26@rogers.com >>Fly save! >>Richard >> >>Do not archive >> >> >> >> >> > > > >