---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 08/06/05: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:04 AM - Re: CH 701 (Monty Graves) 2. 07:21 AM - Re: Jabiru 3300 Econ Tuning Kit (Pete Krotje) 3. 10:36 AM - Corvair Carbs ( was "Jabiru 3300 Econ Tuning Kit" ) (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 4. 11:27 AM - 801: Door Trim, Top Window, and Fuel Lines... (Scott and Valeree Stout) 5. 11:33 AM - Matco reservoir leak? (Trevor Page) 6. 12:45 PM - Microflight Tach (Thilo Kind) 7. 12:45 PM - Inflight adjustable prop (Thilo Kind) 8. 01:23 PM - Re: Jabiru CHT wire routing (Chuck Deiterich) 9. 02:20 PM - () 10. 06:43 PM - Re: Corvair Carbs (Phil Maxson) 11. 06:58 PM - Re: CH 701 (Bruce Bockius) 12. 09:58 PM - Re: Corvair Carbs (Craig Payne) 13. 10:46 PM - (kevinbonds) 14. 11:03 PM - Re: metal cutting-let me try it again (kevinbonds) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:04:35 AM PST US From: Monty Graves Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves Yes there is a 701 with VW and Valley eng redrive flying. I posted a response several days ago, but it didn't come through for some reason. So here it is again. There is still only a couple of 701's with VW engines that I know of. B.J. Schwaller has about 30 hrs now on his with a 1915cc VW and Valley Eng redrive. I have seen it fly many times. It flys great with performance equal to or better than the 80 hp Rotax. He is using a 72 inch three blade IVO prop. Take off roll is about 100 ft, and climb is 1000+ ftm at 2000 ft density altitude. But 30 hrs isn't a lot of hours to be recomending an engine either way.. But it sure looks like it is an economical choice for the 701. I don't have any doubt that a Great Plains 2180cc VW and Valley Eng redrive and the correct prop combo will perform as well if not better than the 100hp Rotax. Val Eng/ Culver Prop has had a lot of interest in B.J.'s plane, and I think they are in the process of offering a VW engine mount to fit the 701. (They make the redrive that Great Plains also sells) I understand now they will even build and TEST fly a complete VW engine redrive prop combo, which the buyer can test fly and take it home to put on his airplane.. But its not cheap. http://www.culverprops.com/ There are pictures of B.J.s plane on their web site. There are also pictures of B.J.s plane in the Zenith builders section web site There is also a fellow in South Africa I believe that has a 2180cc AERO VEE direct drive VW engine. He is reporting 500 ft takeoff roll at 5000ft density altitude. To me that seems WAY TOO LONG, but is about what I expected for a direct drive VW turning a much smaller prop at higher prop rpms.. The Monetts of Aero Vee are semi recomending their engines as a good choice for the 701. I disagree. And Gary's recent response about his performance at 5000 ft just reconfirm my thinking on using a direct drive VW in the 701 IMHO, at this time a direct drive VW is NOT the best choice for the 701, because the whole reason for owning a 701 is short takeoff roll and climb out. Steve Bennet of Great Plains says in his manual something to the effect, that a 582 rotax with its gear reduction, develops more torque at the prop than the direct drive 2180cc VW. There are many other considerations too. Ease of installation, TBO, maintenance, cooling, cowling, all still have to be worked out for the VW. Its pretty much a KNOWN quantity with a Rotax install. Its not with a VW. Monty At 07:01 AM 8/5/2005 -1000, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "gary" > > > > Thanks for your input. I am going to check out the Suzuki RAven TB engines > > and also a link sent to me for RAM performance engines (apparently a > > SUbaru > > conversion) claims to output 140 hp on a 195 lbs weight. > >has anyone tried a VW engine? just curious because Gene Smith's conversions >look like the ultimate STOL engine, >http://www.culverprops.com/galleryenginecompany.htm > >coincidence? - at OSH last year, the only two still flying on the windiest >day were the 701 and that biplane. I heard 550 lbs of thrust with the 8' >prop, that's more than a 912S. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:00 AM PST US From: "Pete Krotje" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Jabiru 3300 Econ Tuning Kit --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pete Krotje" Frank, The Bing Carb with the tuning kit from Jabiru has some limiting parameters built into it that still limit how far it can be leaned. It is not set up so a pilot can reduce fuel flow to the point of over leaning or creating too high a EGT. As far as using more or less restrictive filters, the compensating circuits in the carb will automaticall adjust for differences in air flow as long as those differences are not huge. In short, we now have a carb that keeps mixture right where it should be over the entire operating range of the engine where before the jetting was on the rich side over too much of the operating range. Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Jabiru 3300 Econ Tuning Kit --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Your welcome George, It would be worth your while doing a search on "John Deakin" He writes a colum for Avweb...Generally considered to be a Guru of such things. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:36:45 AM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Corvair Carbs ( was "Jabiru 3300 Econ Tuning Kit" ) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com Hello Listers: I have been reading this thread for some time and I have a question regarding carbs: I am interested in the Corvair engine for my XL ( yes, I bought the manual from WW but haven't got that far into carbs yet ), and I DO have experience with Bing carbs and thier theory of operation, having owned and rebuilt BMW motorcycle carbs in the past. Is a Bing carb a good choice for the Corvair? Is there a BETTER choice? Thank you, as always, for the advise and insight. Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT 601xl N458XL (reserved) do not archive In a message dated 8/6/2005 10:22:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, pkrotje@athenet.net writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pete Krotje" Frank, The Bing Carb with the tuning kit from Jabiru has some limiting parameters built into it that still limit how far it can be leaned. It is not set up so a pilot can reduce fuel flow to the point of over leaning or creating too high a EGT. As far as using more or less restrictive filters, the compensating circuits in the carb will automaticall adjust for differences in air flow as long as those differences are not huge. In short, we now have a carb that keeps mixture right where it should be over the entire operating range of the engine where before the jetting was on the rich side over too much of the operating range. Pete ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:27:57 AM PST US From: Scott and Valeree Stout Subject: Zenith-List: 801: Door Trim, Top Window, and Fuel Lines... --> Zenith-List message posted by: Scott and Valeree Stout Hello All... Many thanks to all who responded on my query about static ports. Unfortunately, living under a class B umbrella it is important to have a consistent and correct static reading. There are a few questions I have around the trim fitting and windows... Referring to the Fuel Line Trim Diagram( http://www.zenithair.com/stolch801/data/8fe-2.pdf ): The 8e1-2 Top Door Post Fuel Line trim: How does this trim fit with the Top Door Sill piece? Does the top fuel trim fit inside the top door sill piece, as it naturally seems to fit? If so, how did you rivet the two pieces together? On to the top cabin window, referring to Cabin Frame Manual p.10 ( http://www.zenithair.com/stolch801/data/new/801fuselage-cabin-section3.pdf ) and Windows Manual p.7 ( http://www.zenithair.com/stolch801/data/windows.pdf ): What is the pitch of the holes down the sides of the cabin frame? When you attached the window to the rear fuselage top skin, did you put the top window on top of the skin or underneath the skin? If you put it underneath, how did you handle thickness buildup of items at top longeron gusset ends, the top rear fuselage skin, top window, and top door sill? Also, the top longeron/cabin frame gussets refer to riveting, yet most of the window doc refers to screwing, do both methods word equally well? Additionally, it would seem intuitive to rivet the gussets to the cabin frame, then divot out the top window and figure another way to attach the window... With regards to fuel lines, I am using rigid fuel lines on the door posts, however the ms21919 rubber clamps would seem to interfere with each other when 2 lines are run within the rear support fuel line trim, if you ran rigid lines in this area how did you properly support the lines? Thanx in advance for the help and advice... -Scott ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:33:36 AM PST US From: Trevor Page Subject: Zenith-List: Matco reservoir leak? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page It seems I have some sort of problem with my left brake on my HD. A few days ago I noticed a small puddle of brake fluid on the floor (I use tranny fluid) and it progressively worse until today I lost the brakes totally on the left side. I've checked my line coming the master cylinder (MC5) and I can't find any cuts in it (I have a grommet it passes through in the side wall) and the fitting doesn't seem to have a leak (no fluid dripping from the threads). The top of the cylinder is also clean. If I pump the brake I can see some small specks of dirt in the line moving back in forth but since the reservoir is perhaps empty it's not leaking. I can't see any air in the line either. The brakes are OK as well, no leaks on the wheel. Any thoughts on where this leak might be coming from?? I'm baffled.... Trevor Page C-IDUS 601HD 17 hours ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:45:05 PM PST US From: "Thilo Kind" Subject: Zenith-List: Microflight Tach --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" Hi folks, some of you might remember my problems with the Microflight tach 1000: it showed the RPM of the Rotax 912 okay up to approx. 3000 RPM. At higher RPMs the needle just moved all the way to the right stop. I fiddled with this issue since a few years without any success. A few days ago I got an e-mail off-list from Duncan Fadyean (not sure, whether he is on the list, but he found one of my old e-mails in the archives). He advised me to use a 50 K Ohm resistor in the sensing wire of the tach. So, I tried that today. The tach works now just fine. Other tan that, I'm now getting honest 120 mph at 5,000 RPM on my CH 601 HDS with Rotax 912 and Woodcomp flight-adjustable prop. Empty weight of the plane is 650 lbs. No wheelpants yet (working on a mold). Happy building / flying Thilo Kind ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:45:26 PM PST US From: "Thilo Kind" Subject: Zenith-List: Inflight adjustable prop --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" Hi folks, besides fixing the tach other thing I did today was to add a limit switch for the Woodcomp prop. The prop is flight-adjustable with reverse option (which makes the plane stop in a heart beat on a short runway). However, the guys in my flying club were just scared of the reverse option. We had an accident last year with a plane with the same prop, when two guys came in long. One pilot decided to go around, the other guy activated the reverse switch. They made it 60 ' into the air.... Plane was totaled, but the guys walked away with minor injuries. Also last year we lost two guys in a crash with a brand new airplane and the same prop. The cause of the accident is still not clear, but my flying buddies suspect the reverse option. In order to put the prop in reverse I now have to pull up a safety cap and activate the reverse switch. In addition, the throttle has to be in the idle position (limit switch). Guess, that will pretty much make sure, that the reverse will not come on during flight. Happy building / flying Thilo Kind ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:23:13 PM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru CHT wire routing --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" Lance, I put the CHT wires inside heat shield sleeving I got from NAPA good to 500 F. It has COOPER AUTOMOTIVE on the sleeving and is for spark plug wires near hot items. I was concerned about the CHT wire rubbing on the heads. See: http://www.geocities.com/cffd66/Airplane/Jabinstall/JabInstall.html from my web pages, look at pix. The pix shows the front wire incorrectly, it goes past the rear plugs with the rear CHT wire and down the side and comes out the airduct beside the cylinder. Chuck D. N701TX ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:20:49 PM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Hi all, I'm new to the list . I am a 601XL Builder from Mcewen,TN. are their any Builders in TN.? ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:04 PM PST US From: "Phil Maxson" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Corvair Carbs --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" Tracy, The two main carbs that William has been working with lately are the Ellison EFS-3A (my choice) and the Marvel Schebler MA3-SPA. I don't know of anyone using a Bing on the Corvair, but there may be someone out there doing it. You should probably join the corvair list at : http://mylist.net/listinfo/corvaircraft and post the question there. Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair Northwest New Jersey >From: Crvsecretary@aol.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Corvair Carbs ( was "Jabiru 3300 Econ Tuning Kit" ) >Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 13:34:59 EDT > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com > > >Hello Listers: > >I have been reading this thread for some time and I have a question >regarding carbs: > >I am interested in the Corvair engine for my XL ( yes, I bought the manual >from WW but haven't got that far into carbs yet ), and I DO have >experience >with Bing carbs and thier theory of operation, having owned and rebuilt >BMW >motorcycle carbs in the past. Is a Bing carb a good choice for the >Corvair? Is >there a BETTER choice? > >Thank you, as always, for the advise and insight. > > >Tracy Smith >Naugatuck, CT >601xl N458XL (reserved) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:41 PM PST US From: "Bruce Bockius" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CH 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bruce Bockius" The Stratus Subaru EA-81 engine/redrive weighs 185 lbs dry, not including the radiator (the one ZAC supplied weighs something like 4 lbs empty). -Bruce/601HD/Stratus Subaru/TDO/464 hours *************** Bruce Bockius Black Forest, CO, USA bruce@WhiteAntelopeSoftware.com http://www.WhiteAntelopeSoftware.com/zodiac > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Gary Gower > Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 12:22 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: [aviation] Re: Zenith-List: CH 701 > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower > > Efraim, > > Definitly no, the Subaru is not that light weight, I am > sure is more than 200 dry. Any imput Frank? Definitly > also to heavy for the 701 ready to fly... No first hand info here. > > Where is (was) this Catalina based? The only two airports > near Mexico City for general aviation are Atizapan or > Toluca, both way over 7,000 ft. If near Cuernavaca is > about 3,000 ft... Just curious not important. > > If you plan to use the Zuzuki, go for the 1,300 (4 cyl) > there is a page that says that of properly lightened is very > near the 3 cyl. weight (?) > The page is: > http://www.nessaaircraft.net/ > > > The 912S will be perfect, but yes, expensive... > > Saludos > Gary Gower. > > Efraim Otero wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Efraim Otero" > > Hola Gary: > > Thanks for your input. I am going to check out the Suzuki > RAven TB engines > and also a link sent to me for RAM performance engines > (apparently a SUbaru > conversion) claims to output 140 hp on a 195 lbs weight. > > Monty's question is adequate. We have available a 6,000 ft > paved runway here > in Bogot but temps do go up on the average 19 C! This ups the density > altitude a lot!! The again, waht i believe really does the > trick is teh > thrust output, which in turn depends on the prop and torque > (correct me if I > am wrong). I used to chat with a guy in Mexico city > (elevation similar to > BOG) and he operated a three seat Avid Catalina amphib witha > rotax 582 > 2stroke. Although he managed to lift off with two adults on > board, he ended > up bending the crankshaft (too much stress, I guess!) and > changed to a 912S. > That worked out fine. > > So I guess the STOL capabilities of the CH701 coupled with a > good prop and > getting the correct RPMs would do the trick!! > > Let's get on to building and in a year or so we'll see! > Thanks again for all you guys' input. Will definitely draw upon your > experience. > Have a good one!! > EFRAIM > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Monty Graves" > To: > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH 701 > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves > > > > Gary, > > > > What is your takeoff roll length, and feet per minute climb at that > > altitude with the 912S? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Monty > > > > > > At 04:04 PM 8/4/2005 -0700, you wrote: > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower > >> > >> > >>I fly from 5,000 and 6.700 ft ASL with a 912S without problem. > >> > >>Remember also that temperature and humidity are important > in altitude > >>take off performance. > >> > >>Good luck with your engine search not much options I think.... > >> > >>Saludos > >>Gary Gower > >>Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:15 PM PST US From: Craig Payne Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Corvair Carbs --> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne If you've got WW's manual then jump ahead to page 72 (at least in the "6xxx" series). Also go to the link below to search William's web site for "carb". http://www.davemorris.com/SearchFlyCorvair.cfm -- Craig Phil Maxson wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" > > Tracy, > > The two main carbs that William has been working with lately are the Ellison > EFS-3A (my choice) and the Marvel Schebler MA3-SPA. I don't know of anyone > using a Bing on the Corvair, but there may be someone out there doing it. > You should probably join the corvair list at : > > http://mylist.net/listinfo/corvaircraft > > and post the question there. > > Phil Maxson > 601XL/Corvair > Northwest New Jersey > > >>From: Crvsecretary@aol.com >>Subject: Zenith-List: Corvair Carbs ( was "Jabiru 3300 Econ Tuning Kit" ) >>Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 13:34:59 EDT >> >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com >> >> >>Hello Listers: >> >>I have been reading this thread for some time and I have a question >>regarding carbs: >> >>I am interested in the Corvair engine for my XL ( yes, I bought the manual > >>from WW but haven't got that far into carbs yet ), and I DO have > >>experience >>with Bing carbs and thier theory of operation, having owned and rebuilt >>BMW >>motorcycle carbs in the past. Is a Bing carb a good choice for the >>Corvair? Is >>there a BETTER choice? >> >>Thank you, as always, for the advise and insight. >> >> >>Tracy Smith >>Naugatuck, CT >>601xl N458XL (reserved) > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:46:14 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" "Damian and Lydia Monyoya" Subject: Zenith-List: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" Hey guys I=92m trying to make part 6w4-5 (center spar spacers). I have some =BE inch round stock (6061-T6) that I=92m trying to cut into 13.7mm pieces (then I have to drill a =BC inch hole in the center). I made an embarrassing attempt at this with the band saw (definitely not square). Do you have any experience with or recommendation of a metal cutting sawblade that I could put in my compound miter saw to cut these pieces? I see these things around, but they just seem to have too few teeth. They just look a lot like wood cutting blades. I would be scared as hell to use one of those monsters to cut such a small piece. Seems like I need a thin kerf blade similar to a diamond blade or something but, all of those seem to be for cutting concrete. Seems like, it should have very fine teeth. I=92m not very experience with this sort of thing. Please help. Also have some 4130 steel to cut eventually. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:03:43 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: metal cutting-let me try it again --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" . . . . Let me try this again some of my characters did not translate. >>>>>>>> Hey guys I am trying to make part 6w4-5 (center spar spacers). I have some three-quarter inch round stock (6061-T6) that I am trying to cut into 13.7mm pieces (then I have to drill a one-quarter inch hole in the center). I made an embarrassing attempt at this with the band saw (definitely not square). Do you have any experience with or recommendation of a metal cutting sawblade that I could put in my compound miter saw to cut these pieces? I see these things around, but they just seem to have too few teeth. They just look a lot like wood cutting blades. I would be scared as hell to use one of those monsters to cut such a small piece. Seems like I need a thin kerf blade similar to a diamond blade or something but, all of those seem to be for cutting concrete. Seems like, it should have very fine teeth. I am not very experienced with this sort of thing. Please help. Also have some 4130 steel to cut eventually. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds