---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 08/07/05: 26 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:14 AM - 601 Engine Compartment (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 2. 03:58 AM - Re: Cutting 6061-T6 (Paul Mulwitz) 3. 04:11 AM - Re: metal cutting-let me try it again (Monty Graves) 4. 06:58 AM - Re: metal cutting-let me try it again (Larry) 5. 06:58 AM - Re: (Larry) 6. 10:50 AM - Re: metal cutting-let me try it again (kevinbonds) 7. 11:55 AM - Re: metal cutting-let me try it again (Paul Mulwitz) 8. 12:39 PM - Cutting 4130N (George Swinford) 9. 12:41 PM - Re: metal cutting-let me try it again () 10. 02:47 PM - Cutting 4130N (Brandon Tucker) 11. 03:14 PM - Re: Cutting 4130N (Paul Mulwitz) 12. 05:19 PM - Re: 601 Engine Compartment (Bill Cardell) 13. 05:19 PM - strobe/nav light wiring (Brad Cohen) 14. 05:36 PM - Re: Cutting 4130N (cummings@stingray.net) 15. 05:37 PM - Cutting 4130N (Brandon Tucker) 16. 06:13 PM - Re: strobe/nav light wiring (Bryan Martin) 17. 06:48 PM - Re: Re: metal cutting-let me try it again (nhulin) 18. 08:25 PM - Re: Re: Re: metal cutting-let me try it again (Paul Mulwitz) 19. 09:09 PM - Re: Re: Re: metal cutting-let me try it again (kevinbonds) 20. 09:30 PM - Re: metal cutting-let me try it again (kevinbonds) 21. 09:33 PM - Re: Re: Re: metal cutting-let me try it again (kevinbonds) 22. 09:35 PM - Re: Cutting 4130N (kevinbonds) 23. 09:39 PM - Re: Cutting 4130N (kevinbonds) 24. 09:47 PM - Re: Re: Re: metal cutting-let me try it again (kevinbonds) 25. 09:56 PM - Re: Cutting 4130N (kevinbonds) 26. 10:03 PM - Re: Re: Re: metal cutting-let me try it again (Randy L. Thwing) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:14:40 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Engine Compartment --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Dear Thread friends, today was a very good day for flying. I have been concerned about the temperature inside the engine compartment especially for the rectifier and mags. How hot does it get in there ? My friend Harold and I rigged a digital temperature gauge in the engine box at the rectifier, near the firewall. Flew 1.6 hours pretty hard from 3 to 5 K alt, different speed ranges and never got the temp above 123 deg F. Most of the time it was near 110 F. Outside temperature in compartment before start up was 99 degrees F so running the 3300 didn't add much. Hope this eases some minds about plumping all kinds of air ducts all over the compartment to cool stuff. It probably isn't really necessary. FWIW, Bill of Georgia 601XL-3300w/DC ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:58:37 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cutting 6061-T6 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz I couldn't read your message completely - some of the special characters were translated before it got to me. So, some of my answer is rather vague. You should be able to cut aluminum using the same tools you would use for hard wood. I would prefer carbide blades over steel teeth, but that may not be necessary. (I use carbide blades on wood too.) If you were cutting steel, it would be important that the tooth pitch on your blades makes two teeth always in contact with the part you are cutting. That means to cut a one sixteenth inch thick part you need a tooth count greater than 16 per inch. This doesn't seem as important when cutting softer materials like wood or aluminum. You definitely need blades with teeth rather than abrasive blades like the kind used for cutting ceramics. Abrasive blades will fill up very quickly with relatively soft materials like aluminum. I have never used a chop saw on small pieces of aluminum, but you should be able to do it if the parts are properly supported so they don't jump at you when the blade hits them. I would prefer a band saw since it does not tend to make parts jump because the blade moves directly against the table. I don't know why you should have trouble making square cuts with a band saw. It could be your blade tension is not tight enough. It could be you are not feeding the parts straight into the blade (holding the part with pliers might help with this - so long as you keep the pliers away from the teeth). It could be your blade is not square to the table. I keep a high tooth count blade in my band saw for cutting aluminum parts from thin sheets (in this case thin means .040 or so - thinner gets cut with shears). In the band saw I don't use carbide teeth, but I do use hardened "Bi-metal" teeth. The resulting cuts need filing to be really smooth since the teeth "Set" leaves noticeable grooves in the cut part. Still, I think this is the quickest and easiest way to cut many parts. If I have missed the point of your question, please ask again. If you avoid using special characters it will make your question easier to read. Paul XL barely started >I=92m trying to make part 6w4-5 (center spar spacers). I have some =BE inch >round stock (6061-T6) that I=92m trying to cut into 13.7mm pieces (then I have >to drill a =BC inch hole in the center). I made an embarrassing attempt at >this with the band saw (definitely not square). Do you have any experience >with or recommendation of a metal cutting sawblade that I could put in my >compound miter saw to cut these pieces? I see these things around, but they >just seem to have too few teeth. They just look a lot like wood cutting >blades. I would be scared as hell to use one of those monsters to cut such a >small piece. Seems like I need a thin kerf blade similar to a diamond blade >or something but, all of those seem to be for cutting concrete. Seems like, >it should have very fine teeth. I=92m not very experience with this sort of >thing. Please help. Also have some 4130 steel to cut eventually. > > >Kevin Bonds > >Nashville TN --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:11:37 AM PST US From: Monty Graves Subject: RE: Zenith-List: metal cutting-let me try it again --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves Any good carbide tooth wood blade (the more teeth the smoother the finish) will cut alum stock. Either on a table saw or your power miter saw. Secure it either with clamps, or make a wood shelf to hold the round stock and cut the shelf and the alum at the same time. I have cut 3/4 round stock and plate on both my table saw and power miter saw. Leave it a faction long to sand smooth. Safety first. SLOW FEED, and CLAMP and watch your fingers wear eye protection. Lots of little chips. Monty At 01:01 AM 8/7/2005 -0500, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" > >. . . . Let me try this again some of my characters did not translate. > >>>>>>>> > >Hey guys > >I am trying to make part 6w4-5 (center spar spacers). I have some >three-quarter inch >round stock (6061-T6) that I am trying to cut into 13.7mm pieces (then I >have to drill a one-quarter inch hole in the center). I made an embarrassing >attempt at this with the band saw (definitely not square). Do you have any >experience with or recommendation of a metal cutting sawblade that I could >put in my >compound miter saw to cut these pieces? I see these things around, but they >just seem to have too few teeth. They just look a lot like wood cutting >blades. I would be scared as hell to use one of those monsters to cut such a >small piece. Seems like I need a thin kerf blade similar to a diamond blade >or something but, all of those seem to be for cutting concrete. Seems like, >it should have very fine teeth. I am not very experienced with this sort of >thing. Please help. Also have some 4130 steel to cut eventually. > > >Kevin Bonds > >Nashville TN > >601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. > >Empennage done; working on wings and engine. >http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:08 AM PST US From: "Larry" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: metal cutting-let me try it again --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" Measure and drill all you holes first, before cutting the tubing. Then use a plumbers pipe cutting tool. You know, one of them things you manually spin around and around while increasing the pressure with the turn knob. They are real cheap and make a perfect cut. Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701 ----- Original Message ----- From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: metal cutting-let me try it again > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" > > . . . . Let me try this again some of my characters did not translate. > >>>>>>>> > > Hey guys > > I am trying to make part 6w4-5 (center spar spacers). I have some > three-quarter inch > round stock (6061-T6) that I am trying to cut into 13.7mm pieces (then I > have to drill a one-quarter inch hole in the center). I made an embarrassing > attempt at this with the band saw (definitely not square). Do you have any > experience with or recommendation of a metal cutting sawblade that I could > put in my > compound miter saw to cut these pieces? I see these things around, but they > just seem to have too few teeth. They just look a lot like wood cutting > blades. I would be scared as hell to use one of those monsters to cut such a > small piece. Seems like I need a thin kerf blade similar to a diamond blade > or something but, all of those seem to be for cutting concrete. Seems like, > it should have very fine teeth. I am not very experienced with this sort of > thing. Please help. Also have some 4130 steel to cut eventually. > > > Kevin Bonds > > Nashville TN > > 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. > > Empennage done; working on wings and engine. > http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds > > > -- > > -- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:08 AM PST US From: "Larry" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" You can e-mail Zenith and they will give you a list of builders in TN. I did it for the 701 in Arkansas, and there are 15 of us fine fellers in Arkansas. Zenith is really nice to do things like that. Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701 ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Zenith-List: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: > > Hi all, I'm new to the list . I am a 601XL Builder from Mcewen,TN. are their any Builders in TN.? > > > -- > > -- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:50:26 AM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: metal cutting-let me try it again --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" Larry I had not thought of that for my tubing (I have some of those tubing cutters), but my question was about solid bar stock (sorry I was not clear). I will try that technique with the little steel tubing I was referring to at the end of my post. Think it will work with 4130. I'm thinking about the one-quarter inch X .028 4130N for the rudder bushings etc. Hadn't gotten that far yet, but don't know if it would have dawned on me to use one of those. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Subject: Re: Zenith-List: metal cutting-let me try it again --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" Measure and drill all you holes first, before cutting the tubing. Then use a plumbers pipe cutting tool. You know, one of them things you manually spin around and around while increasing the pressure with the turn knob. They are real cheap and make a perfect cut. Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701 ----- Original Message ----- From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: metal cutting-let me try it again ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:55:03 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: RE: Zenith-List: metal cutting-let me try it again --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz > Think it will work with 4130. I'm thinking about the >one-quarter inch X .028 4130N for the rudder bushings etc. Hadn't gotten >that far yet, but don't know if it would have dawned on me to use one of >those. I have not tried to cut 4130 for many years, but I remember it is nearly impossible to cut. In the past the only luck I have had with it is using some sort of grinding wheel like the kind mounted on Dremel tools. I don't think you will have much luck cutting that stuff with any sort of saw, and I am afraid the pipe cutting tool won't even make a scratch. I am sure there are experts on cutting 4130 out there in the tube and fabric airplane world. Part of the reason for building an aluminum plane is so you don't have to deal with 4130 tubing. Good luck, Paul XL barely started ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:39:34 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Zenith-List: Cutting 4130N --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" 4130n cuts very nicely with a hacksaw or metal-cutting bandsaw. Of course, a reinforced cutoff wheel in the Dremel tool works well also. George ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:41:10 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: metal cutting-let me try it again --> Zenith-List message posted by: 4130 can be cut with a tubing cutter. Just make sure you don't side load the cutter while you spin it. Then dress it on a wheel or sander. For the solid bar aluminum stock, I would cut it with a hack saw and dress it on a sanding wheel to square it up. My combo 8" delta disk and 1" x 42 belt sander tool works very well for dressing aluminum parts and making them square and it has been worth its weight in gold during my build. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: metal cutting-let me try it again > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" > > Larry > > I had not thought of that for my tubing (I have some of those tubing > cutters), but my question was about solid bar stock (sorry I was not clear). > I will try that technique with the little steel tubing I was referring to at > the end of my post. Think it will work with 4130. I'm thinking about the > one-quarter inch X .028 4130N for the rudder bushings etc. Hadn't gotten > that far yet, but don't know if it would have dawned on me to use one of > those. > > Kevin Bonds > > Nashville TN > > 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. > > Empennage done; working on wings and engine. > > http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds > > > do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: metal cutting-let me try it again > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" > > Measure and drill all you holes first, before cutting the tubing. Then use > a plumbers pipe cutting tool. You know, one of them things you manually > spin around and around while increasing the pressure with the turn knob. > They are real cheap and make a perfect cut. > Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "kevinbonds" > To: > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: metal cutting-let me try it again > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:51 PM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: Cutting 4130N --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker Kevin, You can buy an abrasive disk blade for a standard chop saw, and it will cut it like butta'. If you like tools like I do, you can also get one of these: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=44829 This blade is only 7" and will probably fit into most chop saws: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=90403 -You would have to check on arbor size though. It says masonry blade, but I know from experience that it will work for metal, just not last as long. I did a lot of cutting and drilling 4130 while fabricating my mechanical brake actuators and rudder pedals. The problem I was running into was burning up my drill bits. Have a couple of good ones handy, and lubricate / cool well while drilling. R/ Brandon Tucker 601 hds airframe complete corvair built building header tank and starting wiring ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:52 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cutting 4130N --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz > >4130n cuts very nicely with a hacksaw or metal-cutting bandsaw. Of >course, a reinforced cutoff wheel in the Dremel tool works well also. I got curious about this issue and did a search on the EAA builder's web site for cutting 4130. The only tool reference I found called for a "Cuttoff Saw". I think this is similar to a circular miter saw but uses an abrasive blade instead of one with teeth. (They also said if you are building a tube and fabric plane you will want a notcher.) Paul XL barely started do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:19:10 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Engine Compartment From: "Bill Cardell" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Cardell" Good info. FWIW, it's usually in the 140-150 range for car underhood temps. TurboDog's Dad Bill Cardell www.flyinmiata.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Engine Compartment --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Dear Thread friends, today was a very good day for flying. I have been concerned about the temperature inside the engine compartment especially for the rectifier and mags. How hot does it get in there ? My friend Harold and I rigged a digital temperature gauge in the engine box at the rectifier, near the firewall. Flew 1.6 hours pretty hard from 3 to 5 K alt, different speed ranges and never got the temp above 123 deg F. Most of the time it was near 110 F. Outside temperature in compartment before start up was 99 degrees F so running the 3300 didn't add much. Hope this eases some minds about plumping all kinds of air ducts all over the compartment to cool stuff. It probably isn't really necessary. FWIW, Bill of Georgia 601XL-3300w/DC ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:19:48 PM PST US From: "Brad Cohen" Subject: Zenith-List: strobe/nav light wiring --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brad Cohen" O.K. So I need some remedial electrical instruction; I have the combination aeroflash/position light option from ZAC but having trouble figuring out the wiring. There are four wires coming out of the position light. Three attach to the capacitor via the supplied connector. Then there is a solitary red wire from the position light. From the capacitor, in addition to the three wire clip already mentioned, there is a black ground and a red power wire. My ASSUMPTION is the black ground wire runs to the airframe and the two red wires (one from the position light, the other from the capacitor) are connected then run via the white, single strand wire provided in the kit to the power bus, thus completing the curcuit because the power bus will be grounded to the airframe. But to test the light and the capacitor before installing, I run the combined red wires to battery positive and black (ground) to battery negative, right?...Please let me know (off list is fine) if my assumptions are correct Thanks Brad Cohen 601XL 5-6803 Do not archieve ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:36:37 PM PST US From: cummings@stingray.net Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cutting 4130N --> Zenith-List message posted by: cummings@stingray.net On Sun, 7 Aug 2005, Paul Mulwitz wrote: > I got curious about this issue and did a search on the EAA builder's > web site for cutting 4130. The only tool reference I found called In some old back issues of their mag I saw a reference to using a pipe cutter, i.e. the ones you use to cut copper tubing. Buy a good one and cut, it's fine. You get a cleaner cut and if it's a good one you might be able to cut all the tubing for a fuselage, I know I did for my Wag Aero Sportsman 2+2. Now, the downside, the tubing diameter will be slightly reduced where you cut it, depends on how much pressure you used. For the most part you can cut tubing almost as quickly as with a chop saw this way. -- Matthew P. Cummings 1974 Cessna 150L N10667 Moberly, MO (MBY) ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:27 PM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: Cutting 4130N --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker Paul, You are correct. I also use my horizontal bandsaw to cut 4130, but an abrasive disc cutoff saw like the one I previously posted about works best. Since you mentioned a notcher, I will comment there as well. Make sure you buy a good quality notcher and a very good quality hole saw. The one I bought does not work very well, and I find that a 4" disk grinder works much faster. A lathe with a notching tool works best, but I don't have the cash for a lathe... Yet... R/ Brandon ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:07 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: strobe/nav light wiring From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin You have two separate circuits involved here, the nav light and the strobe light. I would not wire them to a common power wire as you may want to turn off the strobe light either to avoid blinding other pilots on the ground at night or to eliminate a potentially disorientating condition if you happen to fly into hazy conditions at night. I would run a wire from the nav light red wire to a nav light switch and a separate wire from the flash unit red wire to a strobe light switch. In addition to the black ground wire from the flash unit, you will need to connect a ground wire to the shell of the nav light if you plan on mounting it on a fiberglass wing tip fairing. For simple lighting circuits, using the airframe as ground is acceptable. In these circuits, the black wires are to be connected to the negative side of the battery and the red wires to the positive side. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive. on 8/7/05 8:13 PM, Brad Cohen at bradfnp@msn.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brad Cohen" > > O.K. > So I need some remedial electrical instruction; > > > My ASSUMPTION is the black ground wire runs to the airframe and the two red > wires (one from the position light, the other from the capacitor) are > ... > > Brad Cohen > 601XL 5-6803 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:44 PM PST US From: "nhulin" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: RE: metal cutting-let me try it again --> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" On Sat Aug 06 at 11:03 PM, kevinbonds (kevinbonds@comcast.net) wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" I am trying to make part 6w4-5 (center spar spacers). I have some three-quarter inch round stock (6061-T6) that I am trying to cut into 13.7mm pieces (then I have to drill a one-quarter inch hole in the center). Kevin, I know that you are asking about a recommendation for a saw blade but the simplest and best way to make these would be to ask the guys in your EAA chapter if anyone has a lathe who can help you out. This is trivial with the right tools. Centre drill and run the 0.250" hole down the middle, then use a parting off tool to cut them very accurately. The lathe will ensure that the spacers have parallel sides which will be important for ensuring that the assembled structure is carrying the loads correctly. Failing that, I'd ask around and see if anyone knows of someone who does onesy-twoseys in a backyard shop. Its amazing what you can find, sometimes just around the corner, just by asking. Since you have the stock you should be able to get a reasonable price. ..neil 601XL/Corvair Electrical and stuff ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:44 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: RE: metal cutting-let me try it again --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" > >I know that you are asking about a recommendation for a saw blade but the >simplest and best way to make these would be to ask the guys in your EAA >chapter if anyone has a lathe who can help you out. This is trivial with the >right tools. Centre drill and run the 0.250" hole down the middle, then use >a parting off tool to cut them very accurately. The lathe will ensure that >the spacers have parallel sides which will be important for ensuring that >the assembled structure is carrying the loads correctly. > >Failing that, I'd ask around and see if anyone knows of someone who does >onesy-twoseys in a backyard shop. Its amazing what you can find, sometimes >just around the corner, just by asking. Since you have the stock you should >be able to get a reasonable price. > >..neil What a great idea, Neil. I do indeed have a lathe that could easily do the task you mentioned. I might take a different order of operations though, depending on how many bushings are needed. The other way would be to cut the cylindrical blanks on a band saw and then drill each one on the lathe. This would mean you don't have to do any very deep drilling which can be a big problem. If you want a really flat and smooth end for the pieces, a facing operation could be performed on each end of each piece. Also, if you need really accurate holes in the bushings (which I don't think is the case here) you can drill slightly undersized holes and ream them on the lathe to a mirror smooth perfect dimension. The trick to getting a low price for this kind of work is to be as loose as is appropriate in specifying the dimensions needed. If the length is 13.7 +/- .01 mm the effort needed to make them is a lot more than if it is 13.7 +/- .5 mm. (It might be better to use inches instead of millimeters, too.) A similar issue can be said about the hole - is a drilled hole OK or does it need to be reamed? If this is just a spacer similar to a thick washer to be bolted in place then the specifications could be very loose and still be OK. If this is really a crude spacer then cutting on a saw and drilling on a drill press might be just fine. This is just another of the millions of decisions we all need to make when building our own custom airplane. Paul XL barely started Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:59 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: RE: metal cutting-let me try it again --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" Thanks for all the replies on and off list. I bought a 60teeth thin kerf wood cutting blade at The Home Depot. I think it may work. I just have to come up with a way to clamp it down tight so it does not creep. I held it by hand (carefully) and cut some pieces but it creeped on me ever so slightly (about .2mm) leaving a slight ridge that you can just feel. If you score it precisely and place a tooth absolutely perfectly on that mark it is possible to cut it accurately. My third try would have been perfect had it not creeped a little. Came out 13.5mm instead of 13.7mm. Yeah . . . I am surprised I could get it that accurate too! I have thought about using this as an excuse to buy a lathe though. :) Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nhulin Subject: Zenith-List: Re: RE: metal cutting-let me try it again --> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" On Sat Aug 06 at 11:03 PM, kevinbonds (kevinbonds@comcast.net) wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" I am trying to make part 6w4-5 (center spar spacers). I have some three-quarter inch round stock (6061-T6) that I am trying to cut into 13.7mm pieces (then I have to drill a one-quarter inch hole in the center). Kevin, I know that you are asking about a recommendation for a saw blade but the simplest and best way to make these would be to ask the guys in your EAA chapter if anyone has a lathe who can help you out. This is trivial with the right tools. Centre drill and run the 0.250" hole down the middle, then use a parting off tool to cut them very accurately. The lathe will ensure that the spacers have parallel sides which will be important for ensuring that the assembled structure is carrying the loads correctly. Failing that, I'd ask around and see if anyone knows of someone who does onesy-twoseys in a backyard shop. Its amazing what you can find, sometimes just around the corner, just by asking. Since you have the stock you should be able to get a reasonable price. ..neil 601XL/Corvair Electrical and stuff ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:30:35 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: metal cutting-let me try it again --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" I have a disk sander, thought about that as well. Just need lots of sandpaper disks as I'm sure they will load up quickly. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of davgray@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: Zenith-List: metal cutting-let me try it again --> Zenith-List message posted by: 4130 can be cut with a tubing cutter. Just make sure you don't side load the cutter while you spin it. Then dress it on a wheel or sander. For the solid bar aluminum stock, I would cut it with a hack saw and dress it on a sanding wheel to square it up. My combo 8" delta disk and 1" x 42 belt sander tool works very well for dressing aluminum parts and making them square and it has been worth its weight in gold during my build. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: metal cutting-let me try it again > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" > > Larry > > I had not thought of that for my tubing (I have some of those tubing > cutters), but my question was about solid bar stock (sorry I was not clear). > I will try that technique with the little steel tubing I was referring to at > the end of my post. Think it will work with 4130. I'm thinking about the > one-quarter inch X .028 4130N for the rudder bushings etc. Hadn't gotten > that far yet, but don't know if it would have dawned on me to use one of > those. > > Kevin Bonds > > Nashville TN > > 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. > > Empennage done; working on wings and engine. > > http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds > > > do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: metal cutting-let me try it again > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" > > Measure and drill all you holes first, before cutting the tubing. Then use > a plumbers pipe cutting tool. You know, one of them things you manually > spin around and around while increasing the pressure with the turn knob. > They are real cheap and make a perfect cut. > Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "kevinbonds" > To: > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: metal cutting-let me try it again > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:11 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: RE: metal cutting-let me try it again --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" I think if you are very meticulous about it, The saw and drill press method won't be too crude. BTW, I realize this is something I should know, but on the plans for the bushings 6w4-5, what is the little sign preceeding the one-quarter inch designation for the hole? Looks like an "O" with a line through it. Does that mean approximately? As in approximately one-quarter inch? Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: RE: metal cutting-let me try it again --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz > >Failing that, I'd ask around and see if anyone knows of someone who does >onesy-twoseys in a backyard shop. Its amazing what you can find, sometimes >just around the corner, just by asking. Since you have the stock you should >be able to get a reasonable price. > >..neil What a great idea, Neil. I do indeed have a lathe that could easily do the task you mentioned. I might take a different order of operations though, depending on how many bushings are needed. The other way would be to cut the cylindrical blanks on a band saw and then drill each one on the lathe. This would mean you don't have to do any very deep drilling which can be a big problem. If you want a really flat and smooth end for the pieces, a facing operation could be performed on each end of each piece. Also, if you need really accurate holes in the bushings (which I don't think is the case here) you can drill slightly undersized holes and ream them on the lathe to a mirror smooth perfect dimension. The trick to getting a low price for this kind of work is to be as loose as is appropriate in specifying the dimensions needed. If the length is 13.7 +/- .01 mm the effort needed to make them is a lot more than if it is 13.7 +/- .5 mm. (It might be better to use inches instead of millimeters, too.) A similar issue can be said about the hole - is a drilled hole OK or does it need to be reamed? If this is just a spacer similar to a thick washer to be bolted in place then the specifications could be very loose and still be OK. If this is really a crude spacer then cutting on a saw and drilling on a drill press might be just fine. This is just another of the millions of decisions we all need to make when building our own custom airplane. Paul XL barely started Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:00 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cutting 4130N --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" Yeah Mathew I have noticed the tendency for these tools to reduce the diameter as well. Especially the thin walled stuff. I will watch out for that. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cummings@stingray.net Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cutting 4130N --> Zenith-List message posted by: cummings@stingray.net On Sun, 7 Aug 2005, Paul Mulwitz wrote: > I got curious about this issue and did a search on the EAA builder's > web site for cutting 4130. The only tool reference I found called In some old back issues of their mag I saw a reference to using a pipe cutter, i.e. the ones you use to cut copper tubing. Buy a good one and cut, it's fine. You get a cleaner cut and if it's a good one you might be able to cut all the tubing for a fuselage, I know I did for my Wag Aero Sportsman 2+2. Now, the downside, the tubing diameter will be slightly reduced where you cut it, depends on how much pressure you used. For the most part you can cut tubing almost as quickly as with a chop saw this way. -- Matthew P. Cummings 1974 Cessna 150L N10667 Moberly, MO (MBY) ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:37 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cutting 4130N --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" How are you guys keeping all these abrasive blades and grinding wheels from loading up with aluminum? I have never had any luck with this. I tried using (by hand) a honing stone today to clean up my cut. It quickly turned silver with aluminum sludge. Once it does that it isn't good for crap. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: Cutting 4130N --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker Paul, You are correct. I also use my horizontal bandsaw to cut 4130, but an abrasive disc cutoff saw like the one I previously posted about works best. Since you mentioned a notcher, I will comment there as well. Make sure you buy a good quality notcher and a very good quality hole saw. The one I bought does not work very well, and I find that a 4" disk grinder works much faster. A lathe with a notching tool works best, but I don't have the cash for a lathe... Yet... R/ Brandon ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:47 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: RE: metal cutting-let me try it again --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" . . . neil You should know better than to suggest to a "plans builder" that they have someone else do it for them. :) Were too stubborn! . . .Then I'd have to admit that I didn't make everything on the plane. BTW can anyone tell me the process for smelting aluminum?! LOL. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nhulin Subject: Zenith-List: Re: RE: metal cutting-let me try it again --> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" On Sat Aug 06 at 11:03 PM, kevinbonds (kevinbonds@comcast.net) wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" I am trying to make part 6w4-5 (center spar spacers). I have some three-quarter inch round stock (6061-T6) that I am trying to cut into 13.7mm pieces (then I have to drill a one-quarter inch hole in the center). Kevin, I know that you are asking about a recommendation for a saw blade but the simplest and best way to make these would be to ask the guys in your EAA chapter if anyone has a lathe who can help you out. This is trivial with the right tools. Centre drill and run the 0.250" hole down the middle, then use a parting off tool to cut them very accurately. The lathe will ensure that the spacers have parallel sides which will be important for ensuring that the assembled structure is carrying the loads correctly. Failing that, I'd ask around and see if anyone knows of someone who does onesy-twoseys in a backyard shop. Its amazing what you can find, sometimes just around the corner, just by asking. Since you have the stock you should be able to get a reasonable price. ..neil 601XL/Corvair Electrical and stuff ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:56:47 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cutting 4130N --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" Sorry Brandon . . . Just realized you were talking about 4130. duh. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinbonds Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cutting 4130N --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" How are you guys keeping all these abrasive blades and grinding wheels from loading up with aluminum? I have never had any luck with this. I tried using (by hand) a honing stone today to clean up my cut. It quickly turned silver with aluminum sludge. Once it does that it isn't good for crap. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: Cutting 4130N --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker Paul, You are correct. I also use my horizontal bandsaw to cut 4130, but an abrasive disc cutoff saw like the one I previously posted about works best. Since you mentioned a notcher, I will comment there as well. Make sure you buy a good quality notcher and a very good quality hole saw. The one I bought does not work very well, and I find that a 4" disk grinder works much faster. A lathe with a notching tool works best, but I don't have the cash for a lathe... Yet... R/ Brandon ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:09 PM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: RE: metal cutting-let me try it again --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" If the line goes from one edge of the "O" through the center to the other edge it simply means "diameter" or the distance from one edge of the circle to the other. If the line only goes from the center of the circle to the edge, it means "radius" (half a diameter, or half a circle). Randy, Las Vegas what is the little sign preceeding the one-quarter inch > designation for the hole? Looks like an "O" with a line through it. Does > that mean approximately? As in approximately one-quarter inch?