Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:25 AM - Re: CH 701 The Earth. (Efraim Otero)
2. 01:04 AM - Re: Inflight adjustable prop (ivor.phillips)
3. 04:27 AM - Re: 701 Detailed Material List (Zodie Rocket)
4. 04:36 AM - Re: Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location (Zodie Rocket)
5. 04:37 AM - Re: O-200 continental as engine choice for CH601 (Zodie Rocket)
6. 05:33 AM - Re: Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location (Paul Mulwitz)
7. 05:38 AM - Re: hinge-less with autopilot (Michel Therrien)
8. 05:45 AM - Re: To Paint Or Not To Paint (Michel Therrien)
9. 05:51 AM - Re: To Paint Or Not To Paint (Michel Therrien)
10. 06:12 AM - Re: Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location (Zodie Rocket)
11. 06:30 AM - GLASS, Experimentals & IFR (Gig Giacona)
12. 07:15 AM - Re: Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
13. 07:18 AM - Alternative Engines - Geo/Suzuki (Bill Smith)
14. 07:23 AM - Nut plate installation (Don Mountain)
15. 07:32 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS lite (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
16. 07:36 AM - Re: Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
17. 07:43 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS lite (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
18. 07:44 AM - Re: To Paint Or Not To Paint (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
19. 07:47 AM - Re: O-200 continental as engine choice for CH601 (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
20. 07:52 AM - Re: Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
21. 08:08 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS lite (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
22. 08:21 AM - Re: Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location (Don Mountain)
23. 08:51 AM - Re: Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
24. 09:14 AM - Zodiac Cross Country (Paul Mulwitz)
25. 10:23 AM - Re: Zodiac Cross Country (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
26. 11:28 AM - Re: Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location (Leo Corbalis)
27. 11:57 AM - Re: Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location (Leo Corbalis)
28. 11:57 AM - Re: O-200 continental for CH601 (jim)
29. 12:17 PM - Re: Nut plate installation (Al Young)
30. 12:17 PM - Re: Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
31. 01:17 PM - Comparison: 601XL: Continental O-200 versus Rotax 912S (jim)
32. 01:33 PM - Re: Nut plate installation (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
33. 01:37 PM - Re: Nut plate installation (Don Mountain)
34. 01:51 PM - Re: To Paint Or Not To Paint ()
35. 02:15 PM - Re: To Paint Or Not To Paint (Graham Kirby)
36. 02:39 PM - Re: Nut plate installation (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
37. 02:49 PM - John W Tarabocchia (601corvair)
38. 02:59 PM - Re: To Paint Or Not To Paint (Jon Croke)
39. 03:30 PM - Re: To Paint Or Not To Paint (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
40. 03:41 PM - Re: To Paint Or Not To Paint (Keith Ashcraft)
41. 03:57 PM - Re: To Paint Or Not To Paint (George Swinford)
42. 08:57 PM - Re: Blue mountain lite (Brandon Tucker)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: CH 701 The Earth. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Efraim Otero" <eotero@bcfcolombia.com>
GAry:
HOW VERY COOL!! ALL missing is your CH701 in the hanger!! Jeje!!
I tried it wiht BOG but it is cloudy outside today so no good.
So you are at N 20 18min 33 seconds (APROX!!!) W 103 9 min 35 sec at 5015
ft elevation, right??
EVERYONE SHOULD TRY THIS OUT vwery cool!!
Will give you a call once in MEX, thanks!! Awesome to see your plane from up
close ( not 20, 834 ft up!!jeje!)
EFRAIM
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gower" <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH 701 The Earth.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
>
> Hello Efraim,
>
> Our Club is in the Chapala Lake shore, South of Guadalajara, The flying
> day in our Club is Saturday (Sunday is a family day) a few week ends a
> year we go XCountry.
> Please give me a call (cel 044333-176-6566) will be great to meet you,
> Inexpensive and clean town hotels at Chapala for the week end...
>
> A good way to see where I fly from is using the great program Google Earth
> (search in Google of course) Caution in a big download for tel
> conections. Is a free satelite photo program.
> ---
> USA friends: type your address in the "fly to" top left corner of the
> screen and see your house!
> ---
> When the program starts "move" (with the game type buttons) the earth to
> center Mexico and Zoom in...
> The Mexico City note is the first to "pop" as you aproach earth. betwen
> Mex City and the Pacific Coast you will find Chapala lake (a East West
> long lake). Center Chapala lake and keep zooming in...
> When Chapala town note apears, you will see, (about 3 miles) to the
> right, a long blue line.in the shore, this is the water chanel for the
> city pumps. Well, betwen the chanel and Chapala town there is our
> aerodrome a "mirror" 9 type with the longest strip towards the lake....
> Have FUN I know you all will like the progam.
>
> Sorry no hands on experience with Raven, but I was in the list for more
> than a year... A good engine conversion. Hope someone has real
> experience with this conversion, or someone in his airstrip...
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower.
>
> Efraim Otero <eotero@bcfcolombia.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Efraim Otero"
>
> Gary:
>
> Hola, where are you flying out of? Or not yet?? I am visiting mexico city
> from 13 august to the 27th to do the tourist bit, but maybe I can see your
> work. Please let me know.
> The guy with the Catalina was named Manfredi Carnevale and I believe he
> flew
> out of Toluca but I am not sure! Lost touch...
>
> How true to the stated performance are Raven's engines and how well do
> they
> fly with and without a turbo? Anyone out there know??
>
> Best regards,
>
> EFRAIM
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Gower"
> To:
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH 701
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower
>>
>> Efraim,
>>
>> Definitly no, the Subaru is not that light weight, I am sure is more
>> than 200 dry. Any imput Frank? Definitly also to heavy for the 701
>> ready to fly... No first hand info here.
>>
>> Where is (was) this Catalina based? The only two airports near Mexico
>> City for general aviation are Atizapan or Toluca, both way over 7,000
>> ft. If near Cuernavaca is about 3,000 ft... Just curious not
>> important.
>>
>> If you plan to use the Zuzuki, go for the 1,300 (4 cyl) there is a page
>> that says that of properly lightened is very near the 3 cyl. weight (?)
>> The page is:
>> http://www.nessaaircraft.net/
>>
>>
>> The 912S will be perfect, but yes, expensive...
>>
>> Saludos
>> Gary Gower.
>>
>> Efraim Otero wrote:
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Efraim Otero"
>>
>> Hola Gary:
>>
>> Thanks for your input. I am going to check out the Suzuki RAven TB
>> engines
>> and also a link sent to me for RAM performance engines (apparently a
>> SUbaru
>> conversion) claims to output 140 hp on a 195 lbs weight.
>>
>> Monty's question is adequate. We have available a 6,000 ft paved runway
>> here
>> in Bogot but temps do go up on the average 19 C! This ups the density
>> altitude a lot!! The again, waht i believe really does the trick is teh
>> thrust output, which in turn depends on the prop and torque (correct me
>> if
>> I
>> am wrong). I used to chat with a guy in Mexico city (elevation similar to
>> BOG) and he operated a three seat Avid Catalina amphib witha rotax 582
>> 2stroke. Although he managed to lift off with two adults on board, he
>> ended
>> up bending the crankshaft (too much stress, I guess!) and changed to a
>> 912S.
>> That worked out fine.
>>
>> So I guess the STOL capabilities of the CH701 coupled with a good prop
>> and
>> getting the correct RPMs would do the trick!!
>>
>> Let's get on to building and in a year or so we'll see!
>> Thanks again for all you guys' input. Will definitely draw upon your
>> experience.
>> Have a good one!!
>> EFRAIM
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Monty Graves"
>> To:
>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH 701
>>
>>
>>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves
>>>
>>> Gary,
>>>
>>> What is your takeoff roll length, and feet per minute climb at that
>>> altitude with the 912S?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Monty
>>>
>>>
>>> At 04:04 PM 8/4/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>>>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I fly from 5,000 and 6.700 ft ASL with a 912S without problem.
>>>>
>>>>Remember also that temperature and humidity are important in altitude
>>>>take
>>>>off performance.
>>>>
>>>>Good luck with your engine search not much options I think....
>>>>
>>>>Saludos
>>>>Gary Gower
>>>>Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Inflight adjustable prop |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" <ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com>
This is the the URL for Woodcomp http://www.woodcomp.cz/en/index.htm
Ivor Phillips
XS486 London UK
CM Installed, rudder cables complete,
undercarriage fitted brakes working
flap tube fitted
wing lift pins fitted,tiebar fitted instrument
panel being finalised,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Efraim Otero" <eotero@bcfcolombia.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Inflight adjustable prop
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Efraim Otero" <eotero@bcfcolombia.com>
>
> List:
>
> Where can I find info regarding this WoodComp Inflight adjustable prop?
>
> Regards,
>
> EFRAIM
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind@gmx.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Inflight adjustable prop
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind@gmx.net>
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> besides fixing the tach other thing I did today was to add a limit switch
>> for the Woodcomp prop. The prop is flight-adjustable with reverse option
>> (which makes the plane stop in a heart beat on a short runway). However,
>> the guys in my flying club were just scared of the reverse option. We had
>> an accident last year with a plane with the same prop, when two guys came
>> in long. One pilot decided to go around, the other guy activated the
>> reverse switch. They made it 60 ' into the air.... Plane was totaled, but
>> the guys walked away with minor injuries. Also last year we lost two guys
>> in a crash with a brand new airplane and the same prop. The cause of the
>> accident is still not clear, but my flying buddies suspect the reverse
>> option.
>>
>> In order to put the prop in reverse I now have to pull up a safety cap
>> and
>> activate the reverse switch. In addition, the throttle has to be in the
>> idle position (limit switch). Guess, that will pretty much make sure,
>> that
>> the reverse will not come on during flight.
>>
>> Happy building / flying
>>
>> Thilo Kind
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | 701 Detailed Material List |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
No there is no rudder parts included, but if someone has the time I
would appreciate an updated version. Also the 601XL cutting list is now
outdated from the new plans as most fuselage skins have changed to .025
over the .016
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mike king
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Detailed Material List
--> Zenith-List message posted by: mike king <jkingpawn@yahoo.com>
I also don't think the ch701.com materials list includes the rudder,
if it does i cant find it,,newbee here, or maybe just a dummy,but i've
found alot of good info here from you guy's,, you up the good work
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Efraim Otero"
Todd:
In ch701.com I found a list of materials. It is under "Builders
resources"
However, I believe it does not include materials for the gear! It is a
good
start.
If you end up finishing your compilation in excel, I would very much
appreciate a copy! If you can, please send it to
eotero@bcfcolombia.com
Thanks!
EFRAIM
----- Original Message -----
From: "CH701" <701stol@gmail.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Detailed Material List
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "CH701" <701stol@gmail.com>
>
> For "Flat Material" (plans) builders, the Zenith construction manual
> states
> that no material list is available (4th Edition 2/02, Pg 7). Has
anyone
> compiled a Bill of Materials from their Plans as suggested?
>
> I've begun to compile the data in an xls format, but due to the amount
of
> line items, have realized that the task will take some time, and would
> like
> to find a shortcut or two...
>
> Todd
> 5th Edition, Rev 2 Plans Builder In Wisconsin
>
>
>
---------------------------------
--
--
Message 4
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| Subject: | Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
I'm jumping in on this one, the AOA is less used for telling where the
stall is located (if you don't realize stall in a Zodiac give up
flying)but more for achieving a shorter field take-off and landing. With
an AOA or LRI you will be amazed at how much slower you can approach and
also just how much you can reduce you landing distance. Once you are
used to using the LRI in approaches you will never use any other
instrument in landings. As for the DYNON I'm too much like the flies in
a bugs life " Wow man look at all the pretty lights, I can't resist !!"
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
I'm with Frank, Bill
--
--
Message 5
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| Subject: | O-200 continental as engine choice for CH601 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
The 0-200 can't be a bad choice as AMD is selling completed 601's with a
continental FWF.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde,
Frank George (Corvallis)
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: O-200 continental as engine choice for CH601
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hmm...Don't know what the likelyhood of finding a good O200 is...what
about an O235?
Either way my gut tells me this could be a very expensive route as you
have no idea the internal condition of the engine unless you strip it
down. Guy I know did the same with an O320 and ended up spending More
than what a Brand new Lycoming clone would have cost...And he still had
a second hand engine.
Trouble with airplane motors is a rebuild can be several thousand
dollars in parts vs a few hundred for a car engine.
I think bottom line is there are no cheap options in reality and with a
used airplane motor you might get lucky but if you don't.....
If it were me I would talk to Mattituck to see if they could make any
recommendations....Awesome company (my new IO360 is coming from them)
and they deal in some of the smaller motors I believe.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
deanmford@aol.com
Subject: Zenith-List: O-200 continental as engine choice for CH601
--> Zenith-List message posted by: deanmford@aol.com
I am building a 601XL and am still quite a ways from needing an engine.
A friend of mine suggested that I could purchase a damaged 1968 cessna
150 that has an engine with >1000 hours left before major overhaul.
This is the Continental O-200 engine (100 hp). Would this be a good
route to go to obtain an engine for my XL? Would it end up being very
heavy?
Are there other components (such as instruments) that would transfer
into the 601XL?
Dean M. Ford
working on wings
--
--
Message 6
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| Subject: | Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Mark,
I am interested in hearing more about the stall characteristics of
the Zodiac. I have had one demo flight and the clouds prevented
getting enough altitude to do some stalls. My XL is only
tail-feathers so far, and I am wondering if I should install some
sort of stall warning device.
Paul
At 04:35 AM 8/9/2005, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
>
>I'm jumping in on this one, the AOA is less used for telling where the
>stall is located (if you don't realize stall in a Zodiac give up
>flying)but more for achieving a shorter field take-off and landing. With
>an AOA or LRI you will be amazed at how much slower you can approach and
>also just how much you can reduce you landing distance. Once you are
>used to using the LRI in approaches you will never use any other
>instrument in landings. As for the DYNON I'm too much like the flies in
>a bugs life " Wow man look at all the pretty lights, I can't resist !!"
>
>Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
>Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
>President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
>www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
>
>I'm with Frank, Bill
>
>
>--
>
>
>--
>
>
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 7
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| Subject: | hinge-less with autopilot |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
I (seldom ;-) use a Navaid autopilot on my 601-HD with
hingeless ailerons.
On the ground, the servo is not powerful enough to
move the stick completely to the right side (I hear
the clutch mechanism working hard). However, in
flight, it works well. I can trim the aircraft and it
will turn nicely.
I've done two things. I increased the tension on the
clutch mechanism following the instructions in the
manual and I also reduced the range of the servo (by
using the appropriate potentiometer in the servo box).
This alleviated the issue.
I think that with hinged ailerons, there would be no
issue at all, but I would probably do the same
adjustments.
Michel
112 hr (flight time since October 5, 2005, last flight
yesterday evening :)
CH601-HD : 121 hr (air time)
PU: (Progress update) last year and until this spring,
I could not go to the airport w/o bringing a mobile
garage to tweak and adjust stuff on the airplane and
engine. Since about April or May, I only need the
fuel check device with the screwdriver... this is fun
(I was in the same situation for a couple of months
last fall)! I still spend time for mods and tweaking,
but it is just more fun when I can use the plane
anytime I want w/o bringing tools. I replaced cyl.
heads last saturday to try higher performance (ported)
heads... yesterday, I did not bring tools and the
plane was flying well (although again to slow to my
taste).
> On Mon, 8 Aug 2005, kevinbonds wrote:
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds"
> <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
> >
> > On the subject of autopilots, anyone have concerns
> about the hinge-less
> > aileron system putting unnecessary strain on an
> autopilot? I'm thinking of
> > going the hinged route because of this.
> >
> > Kevin Bonds
> > 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
> > http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
> >
> > do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
> >
>
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: To Paint Or Not To Paint |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
I agree with Trev with reserve.
While doing test flights, I had this usual heavy left
wing problem. My plane was not painted and I was not
affraid of doing the necessary work to modify the
incidence of the left wing. I also readjusted the
incidence of the fuselage fairing. The wing
adjustment could have been done w/o affecting paint,
but great care would be required.
This being said, Trev is absolutely right saying that
when you have the plane, you cannot see yourself
dismantling it and bringing it home for a period of
time.
There are a bunch of things I'd like to do to my 601,
but I simply do not want to stop flying. As a result,
my plane is still not painted and is hugly. It does
not have wheel pants and I cannot see when it will
have any. My cowling is still on primer and not fully
sanded... one day I'll take care of it :-)
Michel
--- Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page
> <webmaster@upac.ca>
>
> Tommy, I'll chime in here and say paint it now.
>
> I was trying to decide myself and after speaking
> with others I opted
> to paint before the trip to the field.
> I'm happy I did now because I'm having way too much
> fun flying.
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
Message 9
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| Subject: | To Paint Or Not To Paint |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
> To paint....
>
> 1) It looks pretty
> 2) You get less grief from the Wife...You might be
> ugly but that's more
> acceptable somehow?
> 3) you get to play with more toys...I mean tools..:)
And for whatever reason, it looks stronger. My wife
and friends feels that an unpainted can looks weak.
do not archive
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
Message 10
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| Subject: | Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Paul there is no need for a stall warning device in my opinion, the 601
series all have similar characteristics in which the plane bucks quite
noticeably approaching stall and is to some degree a fight to get there.
If your hand is numb beyond all feeling your ass will be more then happy
to let you know the 601 is nearing stall. Typically recovery is a non
event with mostly a clean break and recovery consisting of released back
pressure on the stick. The Zodiac just wants to fly and it will do that
for you on it's own in most circumstances.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
<p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Mark,
I am interested in hearing more about the stall characteristics of
the Zodiac. I have had one demo flight and the clouds prevented
getting enough altitude to do some stalls. My XL is only
tail-feathers so far, and I am wondering if I should install some
sort of stall warning device.
Paul
--
Message 11
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| Subject: | GLASS, Experimentals & IFR |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
>
> > Time: 09:08:55 PM PST US
> From: "jackyager" <jackyager@usa.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jackyager" <jackyager@usa.com>
>
> I need to respectfully disagree with Frank. The Dynon is perfect for VFR.
> And since it's not TSOed, you can't use it for IFR.
>
This has been rehashed many times in many places but there is no need for
these instruments to be TSO'd for IFR when used in Experimentals. In fact
the NAV radio used doesn't even have to be TSO'd. There is one exception to
this though. GPS. The GPS unit must be IFR certified and installed to the
TSO standard.
This is what turned me off of the Blue Mountain unit its' GPS isn't
certified and I hate the idea of paying for it if I'm not going to use it.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Nope, it will be just fine...I used hinges but would go the hingless
route next time..>The exta stiffness is not noticable in flight.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinbonds
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
On the subject of autopilots, anyone have concerns about the hinge-less
aileron system putting unnecessary strain on an autopilot? I'm thinking
of going the hinged route because of this.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde,
Frank George (Corvallis)
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
Yes it will...But....
The but is (and this is for the HDS) the AOA is a bit overkill. The
airframe is shaking and vibrating like mad well before the onset of the
stall...I don't think no matter how hard I try I have not yet manged to
do an accelerated stall in this airplane.
I also thing the Dynon EFIS is a bit overkill in this airplane, unless
you are going IFR....Not recommended for the HDS at least (might be OK
with an autopilot).
Message 13
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| Subject: | Alternative Engines - Geo/Suzuki |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Smith <ocleju@yahoo.com>
Alternative Engines - Geo/Suzuki
If you are interested in alternative engines for
experimental aircraft you are invited to
join the flyGeo_uncensored group and learn about the
fantastic Geo/Suzuki engines used in
aircraft.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FlyGeo_uncensored
Both bolt on gearbox and cog belt redrives and all
other aircraft
conversion parts are available for very reasonable
cost. Turbo
versions are available also. Gearbox type redrives for
around US$1750-
The Geo/Suzuki engine uses about half the fuel that
the two stroke
engines use.
The 1.3 litre four cylinder Suzuki engine beats the
Rotax 912 in
power and weight, again both gearbox and belt type
redrives are
available.
The Geo/Suzuki one litre engine weighs a little more
than a Rotax
582, it produces 62 HP normally aspirated but with a
better, flatter
torque curve.
All those advantages plus flying engines with the
hours up to prove
them and last but not lease, far, far cheaper than a
Rotax two or four stroke engine.
One person on the group has over 1000 hours on one
installation.
FlyGeo_uncensored is a very active and helpful group
that is also a fun group and is not
doubt one of the fastest growing aircraft alternative
engine groups.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FlyGeo_uncensored
The FlyGeo_uncensored Management
Message 14
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| Subject: | Nut plate installation |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
I am working on the wing access hole cover plates on a
601 XL, and can't find the instructions or rivet type
and sizes for the nut plate installation. In section
8b of the manual, it says that this information is in
section 10 somewhere. But I can't find it. Does
anybody know where this information is or can tell me
how to install the nut plates and what size rivets are
used? Are these the flat head rivets in the kit? And
how are they installed? We just moved and I seem to
have misplaced that book I bought on aircraft
mechanics.
Don
601 XL
Message 15
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| Subject: | Blue Mountain EFIS lite |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Oh wow...Are you going IFR with this plane....Gee whizz yes its your
plane and you can do whatever you want but a blue mountain is way out
there...it really is in IFR territory and if your not thinking of going
there this really is way more panel than airplane. My RV collegues
swallow hard to justify a BMA even if going IFR.
Even the autopilot is over priced. I just bought a Truetrack pictorial
pilot for my RV for $1900. Currently regarded to be the best performing
A/P bar none!
The ILS is of course not "built in". Its simply an indicator that needs
a NAV/COM radio like the Appollo SL30 to drive it...Thats another $3000.
Have you looked at the support costs for the BMA...to update the GPS
etc?
I'm sorry I just don't get it, this is a fun lightwieght airplane with
occasional X country performance. Adding these toys is a bit like
"lipstick on a pig"....Just heard that the other day....The Zodiac is a
wonderful airplane but it is not a most natural IFR airplane.
I just think your adding toys you will never use.
Just my opinion from someone who's bin there...:)
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brandon
Tucker
Subject: Zenith-List: Blue Mountain EFIS lite
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
Gents,
I was going to go with the Dynon unit until I ran across this:
http://bluemountainavionics.com/elitemain.php
-The built in GPS and ILS input gives it a little more
functionality than the Dynon unit. I have a Lowrance airmap 1000 that I
was going to mount on the panel, but will just sell it to make up the
difference in the price between the Dynon and the Lite. You can even
add an autopilot for another $3500.
I am also going with the stratomaster e1 ems:
http://www.sportflyingshop.com/Instr/Stratomaster/MaxiSingles/maxisingle
s.html
Look down about half of the page. It is for a Corvair with two
heads and and exhaust manifold that's design minimizes the affectiveness
of individual EGT's, so I think 2 and 2 is sufficient.
These instruments combined get me into the IFR arena with the ILS
radio that I already have for about $3000, including engine stuff.
Before we get into the IFR in the Zodiac debate, no, I do not plan on
doing hard IFR in it. I live on the coast near San Diego, and popping
through the marine layer opens up a lot of flying days that would
otherwise not be an option.
-Just thought I would share my panel ideas. Comments are welcome.
R/
Brandon
Message 16
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| Subject: | Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Er sorry,.... an untrue statement.
You can use any instrument you feel like for IFR whether its TSO'ed or
not....There are a lot of Dynon's being used for IFR
I'm not saying the Dynon is bad...I'm buying one for the RV,....But a
Truetrack autopilot would offer functionality that would be much more
useful in a Zodiac than the Dynon would.
I've flown the Zod for nearly 400 hours and have never felt the need for
"gyro" instruments....VFR means look out the window...
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jackyager
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jackyager" <jackyager@usa.com>
I need to respectfully disagree with Frank. The Dynon is perfect for
VFR.
And since it's not TSOed, you can't use it for IFR.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Blue Mountain EFIS lite |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Yup IFR with non TSO'd instruments is legal...RV drivers do it all the
time.
You might feel comfortable with the idea.....I can guarantee the zod
would be a real handful IFR....Go fly in the clouds with your instructor
when the turbulence is trying to flip the C172 upside down...The fly
your zod VFR and then you will get it.
The HDS at least has almost nervous handling...for IFR you want
STABLE...The Zods are not natural IFR airplanes.
Now if you had a good autopilot maybe they would be marginally OK....But
to be honest this airplane is the wrong tool for the job. Hard to
explain until you've done some real IFR but it is the truth.
One area I do agree, delay your instrument purchase as long as possible.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Mulwitz
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Blue Mountain EFIS lite
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
--> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
> These instruments combined get me into the IFR arena with the ILS
>radio that I already have for about $3000, including engine stuff.
>Before we get into the IFR in the Zodiac debate, no, I do not plan on
>doing hard IFR in it. I live on the coast near San Diego, and popping
>through the marine layer opens up a lot of flying days that would
>otherwise not be an option.
I like the Blue Mountain unit too, but I think the Dynon new model might
be nicer. Either way the glass cockpit is the direction I will go (in
14 years when I finish my plane).
I don't have any problem with the idea of flying a Zodiac IFR - -
except that I can't do it. I don't have the rating (although I could
probably pass all the necessary tests). More importantly, I don't have
a medical certificate and plan on living with the Sport Pilot
limitations which means no IFR. I suppose I could break the rules, but
I just don't plan to do that.
In the early 1980's my boss had a Globe Swift that had been modified by
changing from an 85 hp engine to a 145. Alas, he still had the original
fuel tanks. That meant he carried a maximum of 2 hours of fuel. He
flew his Swift in hard IFR frequently and thought nothing
of it. BTW the Swift is a lot more responsive than a Zodiac. Also,
it is extremely common for military pilots to fly really nasty fighters
in hard IFR and this has been the case ever since they invented IFR. I
don't see why a Zodiac can't do this.
Just as an academic question, though, I wonder if it is "Legal" to fly
an experimental plane with non-TSO'd instruments like the Dynon or Blue
Mountain gizmos in the system. Perhaps someone knows the answer to this
one?
One more comment . . . my years in the electronics business tell me to
hold off from buying any electronic stuff until I am ready to install it
and use it. I have seen every kind of electronic equipment go up in
features and down in price with each passing year. I presume this will
be the case with glass cockpit equipment too.
Paul
XL barely started
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: To Paint Or Not To Paint |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Tommy, about painting in sections. Depends if you CAN paint it all together
or not. I know most folks don't have a paint booth 29 feet wide and 25 feet
long and painting at airport hanger may cause all other hanger renters/owners to
come for you with torches and pitch folks because of possible over spray.
Also, are you painting several colors cause that is extra coats. I painted wings
off, flaps off, wheel pants off, cowls and spinner off, canopy off, fuselage
separate in that order. Moved to hanger and assembled. Each was a real chore.
Cause remember, you have to paint the top, sides, and bottom. I'm pretty good,
but I would not want to tackle a whole plane for 3-4 coats of primer and paint
all at once. Heart attack time ! Course it has been done before and you can
probably do it. Write me off thread and I'll be glad to discuss the chore. Least
I can do for a fellow from Alabama, Best regards, Bill of Georgia
Message 19
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| Subject: | O-200 continental as engine choice for CH601 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I Didn't say they were, but the risks are higher with a second hand
airplane motor because of the potential "sold a lemon" costs.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zodie
Rocket
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: O-200 continental as engine choice for CH601
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
The 0-200 can't be a bad choice as AMD is selling completed 601's with a
continental FWF.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com
/ www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde,
Frank George (Corvallis)
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: O-200 continental as engine choice for CH601
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hmm...Don't know what the likelyhood of finding a good O200 is...what
about an O235?
Either way my gut tells me this could be a very expensive route as you
have no idea the internal condition of the engine unless you strip it
down. Guy I know did the same with an O320 and ended up spending More
than what a Brand new Lycoming clone would have cost...And he still had
a second hand engine.
Trouble with airplane motors is a rebuild can be several thousand
dollars in parts vs a few hundred for a car engine.
I think bottom line is there are no cheap options in reality and with a
used airplane motor you might get lucky but if you don't.....
If it were me I would talk to Mattituck to see if they could make any
recommendations....Awesome company (my new IO360 is coming from them)
and they deal in some of the smaller motors I believe.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
deanmford@aol.com
Subject: Zenith-List: O-200 continental as engine choice for CH601
--> Zenith-List message posted by: deanmford@aol.com
I am building a 601XL and am still quite a ways from needing an engine.
A friend of mine suggested that I could purchase a damaged 1968 cessna
150 that has an engine with >1000 hours left before major overhaul.
This is the Continental O-200 engine (100 hp). Would this be a good
route to go to obtain an engine for my XL? Would it end up being very
heavy?
Are there other components (such as instruments) that would transfer
into the 601XL?
Dean M. Ford
working on wings
--
--
Message 20
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| Subject: | Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Stall characteristics...Okay...climb inside a metal trash can and have
several teenage boys beat the outside rapidly with large sticks!
Yes, everthing rattles and it shakes about...This happens above the
actual stall point....Can't miss it.
I can see the logic of an AOA for short field landings. I guess it
depends on how much of a requirement this is for you to justify an
AOA....Maybe the Navy won't mind the occasional shot at one of their
carrier decks?....:)
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Mulwitz
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
--> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Mark,
I am interested in hearing more about the stall characteristics of the
Zodiac. I have had one demo flight and the clouds prevented getting
enough altitude to do some stalls. My XL is only tail-feathers so far,
and I am wondering if I should install some sort of stall warning
device.
Paul
At 04:35 AM 8/9/2005, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
>
>I'm jumping in on this one, the AOA is less used for telling where the
>stall is located (if you don't realize stall in a Zodiac give up
>flying)but more for achieving a shorter field take-off and landing.
>With an AOA or LRI you will be amazed at how much slower you can
>approach and also just how much you can reduce you landing distance.
>Once you are used to using the LRI in approaches you will never use any
>other instrument in landings. As for the DYNON I'm too much like the
>flies in a bugs life " Wow man look at all the pretty lights, I can't
resist !!"
>
>Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
>Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
>President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com
>/ www.Osprey2.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
>
>I'm with Frank, Bill
>
>
>--
>
>
>--
>
>
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain EFIS lite |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Frank, "lipstick on a pig" Great, can I use that ? Profound, Great, describes
my whole life, Bill
Message 22
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| Subject: | Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
> You can use any instrument you feel like for IFR
> whether its TSO'ed or
> not....There are a lot of Dynon's being used for IFR
> I've flown the Zod for nearly 400 hours and have
> never felt the need for
> "gyro" instruments....VFR means look out the
> window...
Thanks Frank. But my copilot liked the clean dash
appearance and functionality of the paired Dynon
Flight and Engine instruments, and the ability to
switch the screens. So when she lets me fly the plane
from the right seat, I can switch the views so the
Flight Instrument cluster is on the right side in
front of me. And we wanted to avoid any vacuum
instruments in the plane, and the Dynon instruments
appeared to be cheaper than the steam gauge type. We
are also going to mount a Garman 295 GPS in the center
of the dash also. We have been flying an IFR
instrumented Piper Cherokee for several years now, and
feel more comfortible with having at least rudimentry
IFR instrumentation available if needed. On several
occasions I have been trapped in IMC and had to rely
on the instruments to fly clear of it. The only thing
we would like to have is larger screens on the Dynon
instruments, which I have heard they are working on.
Don
601 XL, tail done, finishing up wings
Message 23
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| Subject: | Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Actually I have ordered the D100 EFIS which is a 7" display...Looks
great. It was a challenge to mount it in the RV panel due to the space
it occupied. Then again, I have a an ASI and alt steam guage for back
up, a CDI and the A/P. Add that lot to the radio stack and the EMS and
it a lot of space, weight and cost. Not sure how much space you would
have left over if you tried to fit both a 7" EFIS and a 7" EMS in the
zod panel?
Even for the RV I am bemoaning the fact that I've added 25lbs and about
$17k to the airplane....But you wanna fly in clouds that's what you
gotta do.
I too am going with the screen swap feature, that is very handy.
If your determined to go this way avoiding mechanical gyros like the
plague is definatly the way to go.
I still think the Trutrack A/P will be more useful to you than a Dynon
even if you did accidently stray into IMC...What could be better than
having the thing flown for you...you just request either a destination
or a direction and it will take you there wings level....You don't need
to try to fly the instruments.
Added to that the a/p flying cross country I understnd is just
awesome...If you did file IFR you can even read a book while
PIC....OK...even that's a bit too out-there for me, but I know of a
Van's employee who does this all the time. You must admit the A/p
certainly generates faith in the technology.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Mountain
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
> You can use any instrument you feel like for IFR whether its TSO'ed or
> not....There are a lot of Dynon's being used for IFR
> I've flown the Zod for nearly 400 hours and have never felt the need
> for "gyro" instruments....VFR means look out the window...
Thanks Frank. But my copilot liked the clean dash appearance and
functionality of the paired Dynon Flight and Engine instruments, and the
ability to switch the screens. So when she lets me fly the plane from
the right seat, I can switch the views so the Flight Instrument cluster
is on the right side in front of me. And we wanted to avoid any vacuum
instruments in the plane, and the Dynon instruments appeared to be
cheaper than the steam gauge type. We are also going to mount a Garman
295 GPS in the center of the dash also. We have been flying an IFR
instrumented Piper Cherokee for several years now, and feel more
comfortible with having at least rudimentry IFR instrumentation
available if needed. On several occasions I have been trapped in IMC
and had to rely on the instruments to fly clear of it. The only thing
we would like to have is larger screens on the Dynon instruments, which
I have heard they are working on.
Don
601 XL, tail done, finishing up wings
Message 24
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| Subject: | Zodiac Cross Country |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>I'm sorry I just don't get it, this is a fun lightwieght airplane with
>occasional X country performance. Adding these toys is a bit like
>"lipstick on a pig"....Just heard that the other day....The Zodiac is a
>wonderful airplane but it is not a most natural IFR airplane.
I wonder if we are talking about just one airplane when we say
Zodiac. I chose the XL because it is the best cross country aircraft
available that still meets LSA limits. It goes significantly faster
than a C-172 on a lot less fuel. It has plenty more range than I do
for a single hop - even with standard 24 gallon tanks. It even holds
a passenger. What more do you want?
Paul
XL barely started
do not archive
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 25
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| Subject: | Zodiac Cross Country |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
My experience is directly relted to the HDS. The XL has a different wing
so I don't know for sure.
What more do I want?...Well I won't go there but I will say the HDS has
been a fantastic little airplane and I love it to death.
But the need for REAL speed,aerobatics,altitude performance and full IFR
capability finally caught up with me...Hence I settled on the RV7A as my
second project. It was a close run thing though. I am certain the HDS is
capable of quite a bit more speed than I was getting if I was prepared
to work on it but thrashing the thing to 13000 feet is not
fun...Especially when my Wife's Parents live on the other side of 14000
ft mountains...:)
Note the RV might be almost twice as fast but it costs three times the
money to get there...The 601 has been hard to beat in terms of fun vs
money equation.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Mulwitz
Subject: Zenith-List: Zodiac Cross Country
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
--> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>I'm sorry I just don't get it, this is a fun lightwieght airplane with
>occasional X country performance. Adding these toys is a bit like
>"lipstick on a pig"....Just heard that the other day....The Zodiac is a
>wonderful airplane but it is not a most natural IFR airplane.
I wonder if we are talking about just one airplane when we say Zodiac.
I chose the XL because it is the best cross country aircraft available
that still meets LSA limits. It goes significantly faster than a C-172
on a lot less fuel. It has plenty more range than I do for a single hop
- even with standard 24 gallon tanks. It even holds a passenger. What
more do you want?
Paul
XL barely started
do not archive
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
I have a Navaid Autopilot coupled to the GPS. I have almost 500 hrs on it
with no problems with the hingeless ailerons. If you study the situation you
will find that very little deflection is actually used and the loads are
quite small for small corrections. The servo has plenty of muscle for normal
flying. As a test, I cranked in the maximum turn on the knob and I was able
to level the wings easily overpowering the servo. Don't do this regularly as
it will overheat the servo motor.
Leo Corbalis
----- Original Message -----
From: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
>
> On the subject of autopilots, anyone have concerns about the hinge-less
> aileron system putting unnecessary strain on an autopilot? I'm thinking of
> going the hinged route because of this.
>
> Kevin Bonds
> Nashville TN
> 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
> Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
>
> do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank
> George (Corvallis)
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Yes it will...But....
>
> The but is (and this is for the HDS) the AOA is a bit overkill. The
> airframe is shaking and vibrating like mad well before the onset of the
> stall...I don't think no matter how hard I try I have not yet manged to
> do an accelerated stall in this airplane.
>
> I also thing the Dynon EFIS is a bit overkill in this airplane, unless
> you are going IFR....Not recommended for the HDS at least (might be OK
> with an autopilot).
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
There is one aspect of the 601 HDS that you must respect. On final if you
slow down, without getting a buffet, you will start to sink like a rock. In
this situation if raise the nose, you will not round out but run right into
the ground. Hard.
Leo Corbalis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
>
> Paul there is no need for a stall warning device in my opinion, the 601
> series all have similar characteristics in which the plane bucks quite
> noticeably approaching stall and is to some degree a fight to get there.
> If your hand is numb beyond all feeling your ass will be more then happy
> to let you know the 601 is nearing stall. Typically recovery is a non
> event with mostly a clean break and recovery consisting of released back
> pressure on the stick. The Zodiac just wants to fly and it will do that
> for you on it's own in most circumstances.
>
> Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
> Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
> President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
> www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
> -----Original Message-----
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> I am interested in hearing more about the stall characteristics of
> the Zodiac. I have had one demo flight and the clouds prevented
> getting enough altitude to do some stalls. My XL is only
> tail-feathers so far, and I am wondering if I should install some
> sort of stall warning device.
>
> Paul
>
>
> --
>
>
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | O-200 continental for CH601 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jim" <jim@pellien.com>
Mark et al,
Remember that the redesigned O-200 that AMD is using in the 601XL SLSA, which SportsPlanes.com
distributes, is quite a few pounds lighter that a regular stock
O-200 from a used Cessna.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
jim@sportsplanes.com
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
>
>The 0-200 can't be a bad choice as AMD is selling completed 601's with a
>continental FWF.
>
>Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
>Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
>President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
>www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde,
>Frank George (Corvallis)
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: O-200 continental as engine choice for CH601
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
><frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>Hmm...Don't know what the likelyhood of finding a good O200 is...what
>about an O235?
>
>Either way my gut tells me this could be a very expensive route as you
>have no idea the internal condition of the engine unless you strip it
>down. Guy I know did the same with an O320 and ended up spending More
>than what a Brand new Lycoming clone would have cost...And he still had
>a second hand engine.
>
>Trouble with airplane motors is a rebuild can be several thousand
>dollars in parts vs a few hundred for a car engine.
>
>I think bottom line is there are no cheap options in reality and with a
>used airplane motor you might get lucky but if you don't.....
>
>
>If it were me I would talk to Mattituck to see if they could make any
>recommendations....Awesome company (my new IO360 is coming from them)
>and they deal in some of the smaller motors I believe.
>
>Frank
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>deanmford@aol.com
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: O-200 continental as engine choice for CH601
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: deanmford@aol.com
>
>I am building a 601XL and am still quite a ways from needing an engine.
>A friend of mine suggested that I could purchase a damaged 1968 cessna
>150 that has an engine with >1000 hours left before major overhaul.
>This is the Continental O-200 engine (100 hp). Would this be a good
>route to go to obtain an engine for my XL? Would it end up being very
>heavy?
>Are there other components (such as instruments) that would transfer
>into the 601XL?
>
>Dean M. Ford
>working on wings
>
>
>--
>
>
>--
>
>
Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Nut plate installation |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" <armyret@one-eleven.net>
Don- See 6-W-9. It shows the access cover. Uses Machine screws
AN-525-10R7 and nutplates MS21075L3. You use 3/32 cherry rivets. I think
all the above is furnished with the XL kit. The rivets can be found on page
97 of Aircraft spruce Cat. I would use a flat head on the rivet gun. Good
luck.
Al Young
Re-building XL
Message 30
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| Subject: | Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Brings a whole new meaning to the term "Angle of attack"...:)
I have found I can do pretty slow approaches (65 to 70mph) and blat the
throttle hard just before touchdown to arrest the fall. Makes for a
short landing as long as you don't hit the throttle too hard so as to
end up flying again.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Leo
Corbalis
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis"
--> <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
There is one aspect of the 601 HDS that you must respect. On final if
you slow down, without getting a buffet, you will start to sink like a
rock. In this situation if raise the nose, you will not round out but
run right into the ground. Hard.
Leo Corbalis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Dynon Angle of Attack Pitot tube location
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket"
<zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
>
> Paul there is no need for a stall warning device in my opinion, the
601
> series all have similar characteristics in which the plane bucks quite
> noticeably approaching stall and is to some degree a fight to get
there.
> If your hand is numb beyond all feeling your ass will be more then
happy
> to let you know the 601 is nearing stall. Typically recovery is a non
> event with mostly a clean break and recovery consisting of released
back
> pressure on the stick. The Zodiac just wants to fly and it will do
that
> for you on it's own in most circumstances.
>
> Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
> Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
> President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
> www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
> -----Original Message-----
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> I am interested in hearing more about the stall characteristics of
> the Zodiac. I have had one demo flight and the clouds prevented
> getting enough altitude to do some stalls. My XL is only
> tail-feathers so far, and I am wondering if I should install some
> sort of stall warning device.
>
> Paul
>
>
> --
>
>
>
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Comparison: 601XL: Continental O-200 versus Rotax 912S |
0.25 ADVANCE_FEE_1 Appears to be advance fee fraud (Nigerian 419)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jim" <jim@pellien.com>
All,
We sell the 601XL SLSA produced by AMD as well as the 601XL ELSA version with the
Rotax 912S engine produced by Czech Aircraft Works. There is a great advantage
to having a Continental O-200 engine in that there are maintenance facilities
throughout the world capable of repairing and maintaining this engine, which
is the same engine that the Cessna 150 uses. Owners of a Continental-equipped
601XL have confidence in knowing that if the engine breaks down 500 or 1000
miles away from its home base, that in almost all cases a local aviation repair
shop can repair it. Rotax service centers, today, are far less numerous,
thus adding an element of risk when it comes to finding a repair shop. This
will not be the case in a few years when the number of Rotax shops will be near
to or exceed those that repair Continentals, because it is expected that large
numbers of Rotax equipped LSA aircraft will be sold in the coming years. Today
however, there are significantly more Continenta
l repair shops than Rotax repair shops is not the case.
However there is a significant weight penalty that comes with the O-200. There
is a 60 lb difference in useful load between the two aircraft (580 lbs for the
ELSA with the Rotax 912S and 520 lbs for the SLSA with the Continental O-200
engine). So the buyer has a choice: better repair availability today (O-200)
or 60 lbs more useful load (912S). If you are my size, 230 lbs, the choice
is pretty clear.....that is why I'm purchasing the Rotax-equipped 601XL.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
jim@sportsplanes.com
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
>
>The 0-200 can't be a bad choice as AMD is selling completed 601's with a
>continental FWF.
>
>Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
>Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
>President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
>www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde,
>Frank George (Corvallis)
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: O-200 continental as engine choice for CH601
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
><frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>Hmm...Don't know what the likelyhood of finding a good O200 is...what
>about an O235?
>
>Either way my gut tells me this could be a very expensive route as you
>have no idea the internal condition of the engine unless you strip it
>down. Guy I know did the same with an O320 and ended up spending More
>than what a Brand new Lycoming clone would have cost...And he still had
>a second hand engine.
>
>Trouble with airplane motors is a rebuild can be several thousand
>dollars in parts vs a few hundred for a car engine.
>
>I think bottom line is there are no cheap options in reality and with a
>used airplane motor you might get lucky but if you don't.....
>
>
>If it were me I would talk to Mattituck to see if they could make any
>recommendations....Awesome company (my new IO360 is coming from them)
>and they deal in some of the smaller motors I believe.
>
>Frank
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>deanmford@aol.com
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: O-200 continental as engine choice for CH601
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: deanmford@aol.com
>
>I am building a 601XL and am still quite a ways from needing an engine.
>A friend of mine suggested that I could purchase a damaged 1968 cessna
>150 that has an engine with >1000 hours left before major overhaul.
>This is the Continental O-200 engine (100 hp). Would this be a good
>route to go to obtain an engine for my XL? Would it end up being very
>heavy?
>Are there other components (such as instruments) that would transfer
>into the 601XL?
>
>Dean M. Ford
>working on wings
>
>
>--
>
>
>--
>
>
Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Nut plate installation |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Don, Al Young is correct on the attachment. On the other hand, I used little,
tiny solid rivets (I think mine came with the kit) that I counter sunk for a
smoother face on the plate and tighter seal. FWIW, Bill of Georgia
Al, how's the rebuilding coming along ? I thought of you again Saturday as I
kamikazied in for another dive to destruction landing. Seems like slowing the
beast down to 80-70 must have some kind of trick to it. I felt the ground
effect more strongly then earlier. It sure has authority. Hope the bending,
hammering and drilling is going well and we see you up again real soon, Bill
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Nut plate installation |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
Thanks Al. I knew about the 6-W-9 drawing info,
including the numbers for the screws and nutplates,
but nowhere do the plans or instruction manual tell me
what rivets to use. I was guessing that the solid
3/32" rivets that came from ZAC in the hardware and
bolt kit matched the number of holes in the nutplates
provided. And it appears that I can use a #40 drill
for the holes for these rivets, but then what? Do the
heads of the rivets go through the aluminum cover
plate in beveled holes? And the end of the rivet
squashed down somehow on the back of the steel
nutplate? With what tools? I could lay the cover
plate on a steel anvil and punch the rivets out some
with a punch or something against the nutplate? I
don't have a rivet gun for this type of solid rivet.
Where would I get one?
Don
> Don- See 6-W-9. It shows the access cover. Uses
> Machine screws
> AN-525-10R7 and nutplates MS21075L3. You use 3/32
> cherry rivets. I think
> all the above is furnished with the XL kit. The
> rivets can be found on page
> 97 of Aircraft spruce Cat. I would use a flat head
> on the rivet gun. Good
> luck.
>
> Al Young
> Re-building XL
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Re: To Paint Or Not To Paint |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
Re painting, do the wise thing..........First, determine the pros and cons, then
fully brief, and get a decision from SWMBO. (She Who Must Be Obeyed). If you
have no SWMBO, do what you want.
Paul Rodriguez
601XL/Corvair
Gear almost hung
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry McFarland<mailto:larrymc@qconline.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: To Paint Or Not To Paint
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com<mailto:larrymc@qconline.com>>
Tommy,
You should probably paint it now, because if you wait till you've flown
it you'll find it's really hard to
paint when the adrenalin says "FLY!". I wanted to paint this spring,
after just a few flights and it's August
already, nearly time to fly to ZACs Open House. Well, there isn't time
to paint till after that trip, ,,,,,,,so September
maybe?
Larry McFarland - 601HDS
do not archive
Tommy Walker wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net<mailto:twalker@cableone.net>>
>
>Gentlemen and builders... :),
>
>
>I would like some opinions about painting. I have just about finished all
>the control surfaces, wings, stabilizer, etc.... I have a serious space
>problem in that I'm quickly running out of space....
>
>What are the advantages and disadvantages of painting the component parts
>and then attaching them to the completed fuselage (if I get that far before
>the rapture)? I would think that an advantage would be ease of getting to
>all surfaces, but what are the disadvantages?
>
>I am sort of leaning toward painting those surfaces now, but would like the
>opinions of those who've been there, done that...
>
>Thanks,
>
>Tommy Walker in Alabama
>
>
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | To Paint Or Not To Paint |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Graham Kirby" <graham@601hd.com>
Tommy,
Instead of a full paint job, have you considered polishing the bare metal?
Graham Kirby
601HD
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Nut plate installation |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Don, The plates go inside the wings and are screwed down to seal the hole.
Course when you mount the wing you will be screwing up. Tape the plate over the
hole and circle mark it so you know it's big enough and aligned evenly. Drill
all the holes (6 ?) through the wing skin and plate at the same time so all
will align, cleco at you go. Mark the plate so you will not get the face and
wings mixed up. Take the plate off, drill out each hole so that the metal machine
screw will go threw it. Use a machine screw from the front to hold the keeper
aligned on the back and drill the two small holes for the rivets. Use a solid
rivet to keep the nut keeper in place between first hole and second hole.
Remover screw and keeper. You should have a screw hole and two smaller holes on
either side. Use a larger drill bit and gently counter-sink both of the smaller
holes on the side of the plate going towards the inside of the wing. Drill a
little and test to get flush. Put two solid rivets on anvil head down. Put
plate face down over rivets going through the holes. Place keeper nut over
rivets. With a wide punch (or a steel bolt of some kind) and light hamme, tap the
small rivet ends down. They smash real easy. Do same for all holes. Drill out
holes in wing skin to fit attachment screws. Test and adjust if necessary. All
pretty easy, but will take a couple hours to make both. Best of luck, Bill of
Georgia
Message 37
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| Subject: | John W Tarabocchia |
0.30 FROM_STARTS_WITH_NUMS From": Zenith-List@matronics.com
--> Zenith-List message posted by: 601corvair <airvair601@yahoo.com>
Does anyone know John's new e-mail? I was hoping to
get some additional info on his flap design. Thanks
phill
airvair601@yahoo.com
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: To Paint Or Not To Paint |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
> Tommy,
> Instead of a full paint job, have you considered polishing the bare metal?
> Graham Kirby
> 601HD
>
My piece of advice for the year (and worth every penny you paid for it!) :
DON'T do that! With thousands of rivet heads protruding (this is not an
RV) your buffer/rag will snag each one AND the polishing compound that is
required will adhere under the edges and center of those rivets and it will
turn out that painting will take LESS time than polishing. Guess how I
know!
Another idea: I am planning on obtaining decals (which any sign shop can
make inexpensively) of cartoon figures, or military insignas, or just plain
lettering (like: 'DEA' or 'CUSTOMS') on the bottom and sides of the fuse..
Adheres right to the bare metal with easy preparation. Lots of colors,
stripes, sizes and are weather resistant, using the same material that the
professional auto trade uses.
Just another idea from the budget minded!
Jon
>
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | To Paint Or Not To Paint |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
How about "State Police"?...
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Croke
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: To Paint Or Not To Paint
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
> Tommy,
> Instead of a full paint job, have you considered polishing the bare
metal?
> Graham Kirby
> 601HD
>
My piece of advice for the year (and worth every penny you paid for it!)
:
DON'T do that! With thousands of rivet heads protruding (this is not
an
RV) your buffer/rag will snag each one AND the polishing compound that
is required will adhere under the edges and center of those rivets and
it will turn out that painting will take LESS time than polishing.
Guess how I know!
Another idea: I am planning on obtaining decals (which any sign shop
can
make inexpensively) of cartoon figures, or military insignas, or just
plain lettering (like: 'DEA' or 'CUSTOMS') on the bottom and sides of
the fuse..
Adheres right to the bare metal with easy preparation. Lots of colors,
stripes, sizes and are weather resistant, using the same material that
the professional auto trade uses.
Just another idea from the budget minded!
Jon
>
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: To Paint Or Not To Paint |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Ashcraft <keith.ashcraft@itt.com>
Tommy,
Here is a Sonex builder that used polish. You might want to check it out.
http://n36sx.wheelsup.org/polish/index.html
Keith
CH701 -- to embarrased to tell how far I'm NOT done
N 38.9947
W 105.1305
Alt. 9,100'
>Tommy,
>Instead of a full paint job, have you considered polishing the bare metal?
>Graham Kirby
>601HD
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Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: To Paint Or Not To Paint |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
Or "Oregon Border Control" which I saw on a Stearman at Arlington about 20
years ago.
George
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: To Paint Or Not To Paint
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> How about "State Police"?...
>
> Frank
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Croke
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: To Paint Or Not To Paint
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
>
> > Tommy,
> > Instead of a full paint job, have you considered polishing the bare
> metal?
> > Graham Kirby
> > 601HD
> >
>
> My piece of advice for the year (and worth every penny you paid for it!)
> :
>
> DON'T do that! With thousands of rivet heads protruding (this is not
> an
> RV) your buffer/rag will snag each one AND the polishing compound that
> is required will adhere under the edges and center of those rivets and
> it will turn out that painting will take LESS time than polishing.
> Guess how I know!
>
> Another idea: I am planning on obtaining decals (which any sign shop
> can
> make inexpensively) of cartoon figures, or military insignas, or just
> plain lettering (like: 'DEA' or 'CUSTOMS') on the bottom and sides of
> the fuse..
> Adheres right to the bare metal with easy preparation. Lots of colors,
> stripes, sizes and are weather resistant, using the same material that
> the professional auto trade uses.
>
> Just another idea from the budget minded!
>
> Jon
>
>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 42
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| Subject: | RE: Blue mountain lite |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
Frank,
I'll add IFR to my list of things to mention to
get you on your soapbox... :) (IFR, autopilot, EFIS,
vapor lock) (tongue in cheek)
I did mention in my original post that the EFIS
lite is only a repeater, and that the ILS radio that I
already have would drive it. I got the ILS for $300,
not $3000. While the GPS is not IFR certified, my VOR
is, and would work fine, with the GPS aiding in VFR
navigation only, as per the letter... Again, as
originally stated, I only plan to pop through marine
layers and light IFR. I am an experienced military
pilot with a decent amount of actual instrument time.
This is what I am comfortable with.
Thanks for the input, as predictable as it can
be...
(tongue in cheek)
Respectfully,
Brandon
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