---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/11/05: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:53 AM - Re: Comparison: 601XL: Continental O-200 (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 2. 09:19 AM - Re: Comparison: 601XL: Continental O-200 (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 3. 09:39 AM - Re: Comparison: 601XL: Continental O-200 (jnbolding1) 4. 10:41 AM - Re: Comparison: 601XL: Continental O-200 (Paul Mulwitz) 5. 11:07 AM - Re: Comparison: 601XL: Continental O-200 (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 6. 11:36 AM - Corvair Users news group (Efraim Otero) 7. 11:49 AM - Re: Comparison: 601XL: Continental O-200 (Paul Moore) 8. 11:53 AM - Why to build a plane . . . (Paul Mulwitz) 9. 12:02 PM - Re: Corvair Users news group (Cory Emberson) 10. 12:21 PM - Re: Why to build a plane . . . (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 11. 12:53 PM - Re: Comparison: 601XL: Continental O-200 (JERICKSON03E@aol.com) 12. 07:33 PM - Re: Corvair Users news group (Daniel Dempsey) 13. 07:33 PM - 601XL engine selection (Brian Briggerman) 14. 09:03 PM - Re: 601XL engine selection (Craig Payne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:53:25 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Comparison: 601XL: Continental O-200 --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Paul, on your Cont. 200 there may be even another advantage. Does it rate as a certified engine ? If so your Phase I hours should only be 25 as opposed to the 40 hours restriction for Jab and Sub. Frank, correct me if I'm wrong, Best regards, Bill of Georgia 601XL-3300wDC ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:19:34 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Comparison: 601XL: Continental O-200 From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Indeed that is correct as far as an experimental with a certified engine. However you are only allowed to do minor maintenance as the owner (and I'm not sure exactly ehat that means). Bottom line if you strip down the engine and reassemble it is no longer a certified engine and must therefore have a 40 hour fly off. I think to be certied it must come with the appropriate log book entries. Regards Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Comparison: 601XL: Continental O-200 --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Paul, on your Cont. 200 there may be even another advantage. Does it rate as a certified engine ? If so your Phase I hours should only be 25 as opposed to the 40 hours restriction for Jab and Sub. Frank, correct me if I'm wrong, Best regards, Bill of Georgia 601XL-3300wDC ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:39:53 AM PST US From: "jnbolding1" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Comparison: 601XL: Continental O-200 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" >Paul, on your Cont. 200 there may be even another advantage. Does it rate as >a certified engine ? If so your Phase I hours should only be 25 as opposed to >the 40 hours restriction for Jab and Sub. Frank, correct me if I'm wrong, Best >regards, Bill of Georgia 601XL-3300wDC IF the prop is certified AND they (engine and prop) are certified as a combination. I've heard of some DARs not getting too stressed out about a wood non-certified prop but that's the rule LOW&SLOW John Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:41:10 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Comparison: 601XL: Continental O-200 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz >However you are only allowed to do minor maintenance as the owner (and >I'm not sure exactly ehat that means). Bottom line if you strip down the >engine and reassemble it is no longer a certified engine and must >therefore have a 40 hour fly off. Sorry Frank, I am afraid you got this point all wrong. According to the FAA stuff I have been reading, any certified equipment you put in an experimental plane immediately loses its certified status. The good news is that means you can do just as much maintenance on certified engines as any other kind. I guess the bad news is you can't sell your used engine as certified - probably not a big issue. I don't know how this all plays into the 25/40 hour initial flight test requirement, but the DAR who inspects your plane does. For my money a 40 hour restriction is merely a requirement that I hone my flying skills along with tuning the airplane a bit more before venturing off into cross country flights and carrying pasengers. Paul --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:07:48 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Comparison: 601XL: Continental O-200 From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Yes it does but I don't "think" the actual wording is quite clear...Yes I agree the moment its installed its not certified, but it is eligible for the 25 hour fly off. Where it got hazy (and I admit this was while back) to me was I you rebuilt the engine prior to installation, thereby the motor was "experimental" BEFORE it went into the plane. Then in theory it was no longer eligible for the 25 hour fly off. I remember having a few debates back when I built mine buts that's where the collective wisdom fell. Bottom line it probably makes little difference and is probably more down to the DAR than anything else. I know of at least on RV that got a 25hour flyoff with an experimental Lycoming clone...I.e an engine built of non certified parts...But all the others get 40 hour flyoffs. But your right Paul once its in the airplane you can do whatever you want with it as it is no longer certified...Thats the whole idea after all right? Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Comparison: 601XL: Continental O-200 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz --> >However you are only allowed to do minor maintenance as the owner (and >I'm not sure exactly ehat that means). Bottom line if you strip down >the engine and reassemble it is no longer a certified engine and must >therefore have a 40 hour fly off. Sorry Frank, I am afraid you got this point all wrong. According to the FAA stuff I have been reading, any certified equipment you put in an experimental plane immediately loses its certified status. The good news is that means you can do just as much maintenance on certified engines as any other kind. I guess the bad news is you can't sell your used engine as certified - probably not a big issue. I don't know how this all plays into the 25/40 hour initial flight test requirement, but the DAR who inspects your plane does. For my money a 40 hour restriction is merely a requirement that I hone my flying skills along with tuning the airplane a bit more before venturing off into cross country flights and carrying pasengers. Paul --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:36:02 AM PST US From: "Efraim Otero" Subject: Zenith-List: Corvair Users news group --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Efraim Otero" Hi listers. Anyone know if there is a corvair users group in yahoo or msn?? Specifically one for Zenith Airplanes?? Please let me know. Efraim Otero-Leong=F3mez Brackley Consulting & Finance Services Ltd - Sucursal Colombia Aerospace Technology - Air Power Doctrine Consultant Aerospace Business Unit Manager PBX +57-1-601-8833 FAX +57-1-640-5770 Mobile +57-310-330-1617 E-mail: eotero@bcfcolombia.com Carrera 13 No. 93-68 of. 406 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:49:04 AM PST US From: "Paul Moore" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Comparison: 601XL: Continental O-200 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Moore" I'm not exactly sure either. I know that it has to be a certified engine and prop combination (ie - is a certified set on a production aircraft). For example, a Cont. O-200A and Sensenich 69CKS12-0-50L is a certified combination on a C150L so if I use that combo on my XL, I'm only required to perform a 25 hour fly off. I don't think my uncertified rebuild has any impact on that because I'm allowed to do that type of maintenance on my experimental/homebuilt. At least, that's my understanding. Paul XL - O200 -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Comparison: 601XL: Continental O-200 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Indeed that is correct as far as an experimental with a certified engine. However you are only allowed to do minor maintenance as the owner (and I'm not sure exactly ehat that means). Bottom line if you strip down the engine and reassemble it is no longer a certified engine and must therefore have a 40 hour fly off. I think to be certied it must come with the appropriate log book entries. Regards Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Comparison: 601XL: Continental O-200 --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Paul, on your Cont. 200 there may be even another advantage. Does it rate as a certified engine ? If so your Phase I hours should only be 25 as opposed to the 40 hours restriction for Jab and Sub. Frank, correct me if I'm wrong, Best regards, Bill of Georgia 601XL-3300wDC ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:53:13 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Zenith-List: Why to build a plane . . . --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz >But your right Paul once its in the airplane you can do whatever you >want with it as it is no longer certified...Thats the whole idea after >all right? Oddly enough, I am still not sure about all the implications of building an experimental plane. For me, the kit building part is the primary focus. I have always wanted to have my own airplane, and I could never bring myself to pay the price for a new factory built one. Even with the advent of SLSA planes the stripped factory price is still North of $60,000 and with some radios and other stuff it would be a bit more than that. I really needed the project to keep me busy in my retirement without spending too much time playing poker (I played nearly every day for several years with mixed results - good financially and bad psychologically). Take the significant effort required to build the plane and add in the bonus of having my own plane at the end of the project and it is a win-win situation. I guess I like the idea of being able to put anything I want in my plane without approval from Uncle Sam. I have mixed feelings on doing my own maintenance. I may opt for paying somebody else to do some of that - particularly engine related stuff since I am not really well versed in that anyway. I guess building the airframe will make me expert enough to do any required maintenance and inspection in that area. The freedom to choose any combination of instruments, paint, engine, propeller, seat cushions, and a mountain of other options is a mixed blessing. The effort required to make good decisions on all of that seems like a lot of work to me. In any case, I am having a ball building my plane. When that is done, I expect to have just as much fun flying it. Paul XL barely started do not archive --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:02:08 PM PST US From: "Cory Emberson" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Corvair Users news group --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cory Emberson" Hi Efraim, Here are a couple of web addresses - I think there are builder forums in them... www.flycorvair.com The Corvair Engine Builders List is on: www.corvaircraft.com and CORSA is: www.corvair.org There is also a good article inthe September 05 Kitplanes magazine specifically about Corvair egines, with some reference to Zeniths. best, Cory -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Efraim Otero Subject: Zenith-List: Corvair Users news group --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Efraim Otero" Hi listers. Anyone know if there is a corvair users group in yahoo or msn?? Specifically one for Zenith Airplanes?? Please let me know. Efraim Otero-Leong=F3mez Brackley Consulting & Finance Services Ltd - Sucursal Colombia Aerospace Technology - Air Power Doctrine Consultant Aerospace Business Unit Manager PBX +57-1-601-8833 FAX +57-1-640-5770 Mobile +57-310-330-1617 E-mail: eotero@bcfcolombia.com Carrera 13 No. 93-68 of. 406 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:21:52 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Why to build a plane . . . From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Interesting perspective paul, One thing I realised is that airplanes are surprisingly maintenance intensive...Seems I'm always doing something to it. Have you found an A&P who will work on a homebuilt plane?...Seems most A&P's should be OK with it but some of them have a slightly different perspective...:) Frank I have mixed feelings on doing my own maintenance. I may opt for paying somebody else to do some of that - particularly engine related stuff since I am not really well versed in that anyway. I guess building the airframe will make me expert enough to do any required maintenance and inspection in that area. The freedom to choose any combination of instruments, paint, engine, propeller, seat cushions, and a mountain of other options is a mixed blessing. The effort required to make good decisions on all of that seems like a lot of work to me. In any case, I am having a ball building my plane. When that is done, I expect to have just as much fun flying it. Paul XL barely started do not archive --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:53:46 PM PST US From: JERICKSON03E@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Comparison: 601XL: Continental O-200 --> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com In a message dated 8/11/2005 1:50:45 PM Central Daylight Time, pmoore505@msn.com writes: I know that it has to be a certified engine and prop combination (ie - is a certified set on a production aircraft). For example, a Cont. O-200A and Sensenich 69CKS12-0-50L is a certified combination on a C150L so if I use that combo on my XL, I'm only required to perform a 25 hour fly off. I don't think my uncertified rebuild has any impact on that because I'm allowed to do that type of maintenance on my experimental/homebuilt. At least, that's my understanding. This is a good area to ask EAA HQ about. To get it right, up front. My recollection is that a "certified engine/prop" used in an experimental amateur built AC,, needs to be maintained by FAA authorized persons,, Powerplant Mechanic,, Maintenance shop,, IA annual condition inspection. That goes for the overhaul of the engine/prop As well. When using such a "certified" combo, ADs, Mfg.'s notices and such apply, not withstanding that it is installed in an Experimental aircraft. This is a cost of the decision to use such a "certified" combo. Somewhere it has been written that the engine data plate is to be sent to the FAA, surrendered, when the engine used will not be continued in a "certified''' condition. Someone on the list may help with this info? Rule? If not an A&P, it is useful to look at FAR part 43, appendix A, Preventative Maintenance, For the list of maintenance allowed on "certified" AC. As Experimental builder/Repairmen for our own AC, we are allowed do the annual condition inspection. FAR part 43, appendix D. Again, best to ask EAA HQ for help to clarify & convince yourself of your understanding of this area. Regards, Jerry, 701 SP/ 912 ULS / WARP DRIVE ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:50 PM PST US From: Daniel Dempsey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Corvair Users news group --> Zenith-List message posted by: Daniel Dempsey Efraim, I'm on a corvair mailing list. The combination of corvair and CH601 XL is becoming a popular one. It's a good group. Someone else mentioned flycorvair.com, William Wynne's web sight. It's an important source. Information below... Dan Dempsey Send CorvAircraft mailing list submissions to corvaircraft@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/corvaircraft or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to corvaircraft-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at corvaircraft-owner@mylist.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Efraim Otero" Subject: Zenith-List: Corvair Users news group > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Efraim Otero" > > Hi listers. > > Anyone know if there is a corvair users group in yahoo or msn?? > Specifically one for Zenith Airplanes?? > Please let me know. > > Efraim Otero-Leong=F3mez > Brackley Consulting & Finance Services Ltd - Sucursal Colombia > Aerospace Technology - Air Power Doctrine Consultant > Aerospace Business Unit Manager > PBX +57-1-601-8833 > FAX +57-1-640-5770 > Mobile +57-310-330-1617 > E-mail: eotero@bcfcolombia.com > Carrera 13 No. 93-68 of. 406 > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:58 PM PST US From: "Brian Briggerman" Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL engine selection --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brian Briggerman" I am trying to decide on what engine to put in my 601XL. I live in the Phoenix, AZ area and am concerned about engine cooling. We see 115 degrees in June. I would like to know anyone's experiences operating in temperatures like I experience here in Arizona and how the cooling was handled. I am interested in one of the following engines: the Jabiru 3300, Continental O-200 or the Lycoming O-235. Brian Briggerman Tail kit and wings completed and starting the fuselage! ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:08 PM PST US From: Craig Payne Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL engine selection --> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne Have you looked through the builders database on the Zenith site? It can be search/sorted by state and often list the builder's engine choice. -- Craig Brian Briggerman wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brian Briggerman" > > I am trying to decide on what engine to put in my 601XL. I live in the Phoenix, AZ area and am concerned about engine cooling. We see 115 degrees in June. I would like to know anyone's experiences operating in temperatures like I experience here in Arizona and how the cooling was handled. I am interested in one of the following engines: the Jabiru 3300, Continental O-200 or the Lycoming O-235. > > Brian Briggerman > > Tail kit and wings completed and starting the fuselage! > > > > > > >