Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:44 AM - Welder (Dave & Darlene)
2. 06:07 AM - Re: Welder (Steve Russell)
3. 06:31 AM - Re: Welder (N5SL)
4. 06:32 AM - Re: Comparison: 601XL: Continental O-200 (Schemmel, Grant)
5. 06:55 AM - Canadian airports (Carlos Sa)
6. 07:37 AM - Re: Comparison: 601XL: Continental O-200 (JAPhillipsGA@AOL.COM)
7. 07:44 AM - Re: Welder (Brandon Tucker)
8. 08:01 AM - Re: Welder (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
9. 08:04 AM - Re: Re: Welder (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
10. 10:13 AM - Re: Re: Welder (jnbolding1)
11. 10:14 AM - High Intensity Discharge (HID) Landing LIghts (Don Mountain)
12. 11:02 AM - Re: Welder (Larry McFarland)
13. 11:05 AM - Re: High Intensity Discharge (HID) Landing LIghts (Carlos Sa)
14. 11:26 AM - Re: High Intensity Discharge (HID) Landing LIghts (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
15. 11:28 AM - Re: High Intensity Discharge (HID) Landing LIghts (Lincoln Probst)
16. 11:36 AM - Looking for 701 builders in Washington State (Joe Scheibinger)
17. 11:38 AM - Re: Welder (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
18. 12:30 PM - Re: Re: Welder (Randy L. Thwing)
19. 12:30 PM - Re: High Intensity Discharge (HID) Landing LIghts (Don Mountain)
20. 12:58 PM - Re: High Intensity Discharge (HID) Landing LIghts (Paul Mulwitz)
21. 02:22 PM - 601xl thrust line (ken smith)
22. 02:27 PM - RFI Redrives (ABGS)
23. 04:00 PM - Re: Re: Welder (Larry McFarland)
24. 04:40 PM - TV Drill (fred sanford)
25. 05:11 PM - Re: TV Drill (CH701)
26. 05:14 PM - Re: Re: Welder (ron wehba)
27. 05:29 PM - Re: 601xl thrust line (N5SL)
28. 05:57 PM - Re: High Intensity Discharge (HID) Landing LIghts (Rick Tedford)
29. 08:03 PM - Fw: Dynon Angle of Attack (Carl Bertrand)
30. 10:00 PM - Re Re: Welder / 4130 filler rod (Brandon Tucker)
Message 1
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" <dnimigon@telusplanet.net>
Hi List
Canadian Tire is selling there Mig for $579, $200 savings. It's 175amp. Is this
a big enough unit for the welding in the XL or 701 that a guy has to do. I've
been looking for some time now and and watching for deals. Any thoughts
Dave
Alberta
701 Soon to be started
601XL (on hold)
99% to go
tail parts bent and ready
www.borrowmyhusband.com/Nimigon_601XL
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Russell" <steve@cccparis.com>
My understanding is that MIG welding is undesirable for aircraft welding and that
TIG or acelyn? is the preferred method.
Steve
701 plans
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Dave & Darlene" <dnimigon@telusplanet.net>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" <dnimigon@telusplanet.net>
>
>Hi List
>Canadian Tire is selling there Mig for $579, $200 savings. It's 175amp. Is this
a big enough unit for the welding in the XL or 701 that a guy has to do. I've
been looking for some time now and and watching for deals. Any thoughts
>
>Dave
>Alberta
>701 Soon to be started
>601XL (on hold)
>99% to go
>tail parts bent and ready
>www.borrowmyhusband.com/Nimigon_601XL
>
>
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Hi Dave:
There's not much on the 601XL that allowed me to use my MIG welder. The main gear
brackets are beefy enough to be MIG welded but I followed up with the gas
welder anyway. Any of the welding on Chromoly like the engine mount, the yoke,
torque tube canopy steel, steps, etc. was done with my gas welder.
I hope this helps,
Scott.
Dave & Darlene <dnimigon@telusplanet.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene"
Hi List
Canadian Tire is selling there Mig for $579, $200 savings. It's 175amp. Is this
a big enough unit for the welding in the XL or 701 that a guy has to do. I've
been looking for some time now and and watching for deals. Any thoughts
Dave
Alberta
701 Soon to be started
601XL (on hold)
99% to go
tail parts bent and ready
www.borrowmyhusband.com/Nimigon_601XL
---------------------------------
Message 4
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| Subject: | Comparison: 601XL: Continental O-200 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Schemmel, Grant" <Grant.Schemmel@Aeroflex.com>
Maybe I can help out here a bit, as I am currently flying behind a '68 O-200 from
a wrecked 150. I ended up completely overhauling the engine myself, under
the occasional supervision of an A&P buddy, who then signed off the engine log
for me. When it came time to do the airworthiness inspection, I borrowed a certified
Flowtorp prop from the same guy and arranged for the DAR inspection.
I don't know for sure if the combination of the two were ever actually certified
together, but the guy had used it on a Davis w/ an O-200 in the past.
Anyway, the DAR had no problem with the combination on my plane, and signed it
off with a 25hr flight test period.
Just as a side note, it was a rotten combination w/ the zodiac, resulting in very
poor performance. I'm now running a 3-blade Warp Drive and am much happier
(tho not completely, faster! faster! ;-))
Just my 2 cents I guess.
Grant Schemmel
Penrose, CO
Time: 11:49:04 AM PST US
From: "Paul Moore" <pmoore505@msn.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Comparison: 601XL: Continental O-200
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Moore" <pmoore505@msn.com>
I'm not exactly sure either.
I know that it has to be a certified engine and prop combination (ie - is a
certified set on a production aircraft). For example, a Cont. O-200A and
Sensenich 69CKS12-0-50L is a certified combination on a C150L so if I use
that combo on my XL, I'm only required to perform a 25 hour fly off. I
don't think my uncertified rebuild has any impact on that because I'm
allowed to do that type of maintenance on my experimental/homebuilt.
At least, that's my understanding.
Paul
XL - O200
Message 5
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| Subject: | Canadian airports |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Hello, all
A while back, somebody created an application that would list airports near a given
city.
That application was made available to all through a web page. I forget who did
it, my apologies.
The only drawback is that the database included (includes) only USA airports. Canada
wasn't
included for lack of free coordinate data.
Well, I found today just that info: it is available as a spreadsheet in this web
site (along with
other good stuff):
"Airports in Canada", owned by George Plews, a Flight Service Specialist.
http://www.plews.ca/AirportsinCanada.htm
Cheers
Carlos
Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Comparison: 601XL: Continental O-200 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Grant, the other part of the question is as the engine prop combo was
certified when the plane was signed off on by the DAR can you do maintenance on
the
engine (100 hour, tear downs and such) or do you have to have the A&P do it ?
Our at least have him sign off on your work ? Best regards, Bill
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
Dave,
I have a mig, tig, and gas. The only one I used
to build the HDS was the tig. To weld aluminum
affectively, you have to use tig. It can be done with
a mig and pure Argon shielding gas, but the result is
substandard to tig. This only comes into play if you
build you own gas tanks.
To weld 4130 properly, you have to use 4130
welding rod. I'm sure you can get a spool for a mig,
but since it is more expensive, you would probably
want to switch it out while welding mid steel. Having
said that, you can weld 4130 with mild steel rod, but
it's strength would be slightly compromised. -Not
something I am was willing to do for axles / torque
plates / tailwheel spring mounting components / ect...
I figured I should use the rod it was engineered for.
If mig is setup properly, it can weld steel well, but
it too often has insufficient penetration.
If you are a tool addict like some of us, I would
recommend looking into a tig. The prices are coming
down for inverter style tigs. If you don't think you
would get your money's worth, ask around at your local
EAA meetings. There is usually someone that has one.
I offered up my welding services to my chapter, and
have been called upon several times. It is all part
of the homebuilding brotherhood...
R/
Brandon
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I'm not an expert in this department but I thought that the FAA does not
approve (like we really care!) the use of MIG welding on 4130, there
might be a good reason for this however.
Personally I wouldn't do it unless somone could categorically prove that
it was OK.
Gas welding requires that it be brought slowely up to temperature by
heating the surrounding metal gradually. If you think about it this is
impossible to do with MIG.
Besides gas welding is so much more satisfying somehow....:)
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N5SL
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Welder
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Hi Dave:
There's not much on the 601XL that allowed me to use my MIG welder. The
main gear brackets are beefy enough to be MIG welded but I followed up
with the gas welder anyway. Any of the welding on Chromoly like the
engine mount, the yoke, torque tube canopy steel, steps, etc. was done
with my gas welder.
I hope this helps,
Scott.
Dave & Darlene <dnimigon@telusplanet.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene"
Hi List
Canadian Tire is selling there Mig for $579, $200 savings. It's 175amp.
Is this a big enough unit for the welding in the XL or 701 that a guy
has to do. I've been looking for some time now and and watching for
deals. Any thoughts
Dave
Alberta
701 Soon to be started
601XL (on hold)
99% to go
tail parts bent and ready
www.borrowmyhusband.com/Nimigon_601XL
---------------------------------
Message 9
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Good for you Brandon, I too have met lots of builders with broken parts
in their hands with worried looks on their faces...:)
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brandon
Tucker
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Welder
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
Dave,
I have a mig, tig, and gas. The only one I used to build the HDS
was the tig. To weld aluminum affectively, you have to use tig. It can
be done with a mig and pure Argon shielding gas, but the result is
substandard to tig. This only comes into play if you build you own gas
tanks.
To weld 4130 properly, you have to use 4130 welding rod. I'm sure
you can get a spool for a mig, but since it is more expensive, you would
probably want to switch it out while welding mid steel. Having said
that, you can weld 4130 with mild steel rod, but it's strength would be
slightly compromised. -Not something I am was willing to do for axles /
torque plates / tailwheel spring mounting components / ect...
I figured I should use the rod it was engineered for.
If mig is setup properly, it can weld steel well, but it too often has
insufficient penetration.
If you are a tool addict like some of us, I would recommend looking
into a tig. The prices are coming down for inverter style tigs. If you
don't think you would get your money's worth, ask around at your local
EAA meetings. There is usually someone that has one.
I offered up my welding services to my chapter, and have been called
upon several times. It is all part of the homebuilding brotherhood...
R/
Brandon
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <
> To weld 4130 properly, you have to use 4130 welding rod. >Brandon
That is blatantly a false statement. I know you said later that mild steel is
ok but would give a slightly inferior joint. I have asked this question of several
aeronautical engineers and WITHOUT FAIL they all said that unless the part
is going to be heat treated USE A MILD STEEL ROD. During an engineering meeting
with Dave Thurston (designer of the Teal Amphibian, Trojan Amphib and most
of the Lake Amphib) several years ago on a project I hired him to do for us
this subject came up. I showed him a landing gear drawing he had done several
years prior that speced 4130 rod along side the note that the complete gear leg
was to be heat treated. His reply was that mild steel filler was superior to
4130 in areas that were NOT to be heat treated due to being less brittle. He
said that it is hard to design a joint that does NOT have more than ample area
and length for mild filler .
Someone else mentioned that the FAA does not allow MIG welding, you better tell
American Champion to quit using it on the Decathalons.
As Smokey Unick once said "Most experts aren't" John
Message 11
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| Subject: | High Intensity Discharge (HID) Landing LIghts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
I am finishing up the wings on my 601 XL, and a friend
told me to consider High-Intensity Discharge (HID)
Xenon, or Metal Halide Lamps for the landing and taxi
lights. One supplier I found on the internet is:
http://www.xevision.com/
Has anybody tried these and have any comment on them?
Are they worth the money? It looks like they may be
brighter than the ZAC supplied bulbs, burn less power,
and last a lot longer.
Don
601 XL, tail done, finishing up wings
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Dave,
I'd recommend you obtain and use the Oxyacetylene process. Using a
drawn steel copper coated rod will have lesser
properties than the 4130, but will alloy itself with the 4130 and
because of the welds larger cross section, it will become better suited
to the task. Welds with 4130 rod tend to be hard and crack. Expansion
and contraction need the mild rod to act as a stress reliever. MIG
lacks control for a weld that is more demanding and critical to safety.
OK for stock cars, but not aircraft. I'd recommend if you need to weld
electronically, use TIG. I love TIG and the control it affords, but
it's expensive if you're not going to use it a lot. I welded 25 years
with gas and did 2 tube-structure aircraft before buying an electric
welder and still use the gas torch half the time.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Dave & Darlene wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" <dnimigon@telusplanet.net>
>
>Hi List
>Canadian Tire is selling there Mig for $579, $200 savings. It's 175amp. Is this
a big enough unit for the welding in the XL or 701 that a guy has to do. I've
been looking for some time now and and watching for deals. Any thoughts
>
>Dave
>Alberta
>701 Soon to be started
>601XL (on hold)
>99% to go
>tail parts bent and ready
>www.borrowmyhusband.com/Nimigon_601XL
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: High Intensity Discharge (HID) Landing LIghts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Don, there are some posts on this subject, see the archive.
I believe they can't be put on a wig-wag configuration.
Carlos
do not archive
--- Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
>
> I am finishing up the wings on my 601 XL, and a friend
> told me to consider High-Intensity Discharge (HID)
> Xenon, or Metal Halide Lamps for the landing and taxi
> lights. One supplier I found on the internet is:
>
> http://www.xevision.com/
>
> Has anybody tried these and have any comment on them?
> Are they worth the money? It looks like they may be
> brighter than the ZAC supplied bulbs, burn less power,
> and last a lot longer.
>
> Don
> 601 XL, tail done, finishing up wings
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca
Message 14
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| Subject: | High Intensity Discharge (HID) Landing LIghts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
For me it's a question of "how bright do you need landing lights?" and
what do you need them for?
If you want to be seen then install a wig-wag flasher....$35 from B&C
and others. Very cheap very effective and saves power. Can't be used on
HID lighting...so I'm told.
If you want to see the runway...Well from my experience landing lights
are almost useless in this regard...they give you a faint glow of the
tarmac just before you hit it...well ok kinda useful but not much in my
experience.
To me a twice as bright HID is still pretty close to useless but you
added weight and spent more money.
You could simply add two more standard landing lights for say 30bucks
and just switch them on on final...Just use the battery to drive them,
no need to upsize your alternator for these. Probably be less weight
to??
Just a thought
Frank
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
I am finishing up the wings on my 601 XL, and a friend told me to
consider High-Intensity Discharge (HID) Xenon, or Metal Halide Lamps for
the landing and taxi lights. One supplier I found on the internet is:
http://www.xevision.com/
Has anybody tried these and have any comment on them?
Are they worth the money? It looks like they may be brighter than the
ZAC supplied bulbs, burn less power, and last a lot longer.
Don
601 XL, tail done, finishing up wings
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: High Intensity Discharge (HID) Landing LIghts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Lincoln Probst <elprobst@yahoo.com>
I was considering xevision, but the light is expensive... and I called them to
see
if I could just get a reflector and that went over like a lead balloon and left
a
bit of a bad taste in my mouth. They do recommend using the DS1 type of bulb
because then you don't have a high voltage lead and is therefore
minimizes/eliminates potential for electromagnetic interference.
I ended up getting two aftermarket HID lights and talking to Duckworks to get a
reflector for them.
Benefits of HID are:
1) 3200Lumens bright [55 W halogen is 1000Lumens]
2) no filament to break, 3000hr "on" life [btw you can make halogens last longer
by
running 2amps through them all the time, makes the filament more pliable and last
longer]
3) Less amperage. runs at about 3amps @ 12volts(35watts)
Pitfalls:
1) cost: my kit for TWO DS1 bulbs(ignighter built-in) with ballest etc was about
$400
2) Can't "Wig-Wag" them... although xevision seems to have solved that. They take
about 20-40seconds to come to full brightness(making the metal salts vapor similar
to a mercury lamp)
3) Difficult to find a reflector that fits the DS1 bulbs and is suitable for an
airplane. Some have used the Accura TL square reflector but I don't know the angle
it sends light. They are typically fog lights and at too wide an angle. Something
that reflects the light at about 7 to 10degrees would work best. Auto stuff also
seems to have legal restrictions from having their "bright" lights be HID as it
is
too bright and blinds oncoming cars.
Bottom line half the power, 3 times the light, many times the cost...
http://www.duckworksaviation.com/ made a holder for the DS1 bulbs against a 4" Par36
standard round reflector. He started making light kits for RV's... and I have
no
association except found them on the web and am a customer.
Lincoln
www.1Linc.com
601xl, fuselage
--- Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
>
> I am finishing up the wings on my 601 XL, and a friend
> told me to consider High-Intensity Discharge (HID)
> Xenon, or Metal Halide Lamps for the landing and taxi
> lights. One supplier I found on the internet is:
>
> http://www.xevision.com/
>
> Has anybody tried these and have any comment on them?
> Are they worth the money? It looks like they may be
> brighter than the ZAC supplied bulbs, burn less power,
> and last a lot longer.
>
> Don
> 601 XL, tail done, finishing up wings
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Looking for 701 builders in Washington State |
(not processed: message from valid local sender)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Joe Scheibinger" <joe@kfiz.com>
Friends,
I am looking at purchasing a 701 Kit from Zenith. Is there anyone within a
few hundred miles of Seattle Washington that I can call, or maybe come to
see your project? I have some flying questions I would like to ask someone
who has built and flown a 701. Would anyone volunteer to let me call you and
talk about what it's like to fly one? If you can share some time with me on
the phone, please post your phone number and I will call, or call me at
206-365-9081. Thanks
Mel Struck
Seattle, Washington
Message 17
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
And after Larry reminded me of the gas welding techniques Oxy acet
welding is a real pleasure....One tip only use 1/16th rod for anything
up say 1/4" plate. A thicker rod simply quenches the weld and it breaks.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
McFarland
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Welder
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland
--> <larrymc@qconline.com>
Dave,
I'd recommend you obtain and use the Oxyacetylene process. Using a
drawn steel copper coated rod will have lesser properties than the 4130,
but will alloy itself with the 4130 and because of the welds larger
cross section, it will become better suited to the task. Welds with
4130 rod tend to be hard and crack. Expansion and contraction need the
mild rod to act as a stress reliever. MIG lacks control for a weld that
is more demanding and critical to safety.
OK for stock cars, but not aircraft. I'd recommend if you need to weld
electronically, use TIG. I love TIG and the control it affords, but
it's expensive if you're not going to use it a lot. I welded 25 years
with gas and did 2 tube-structure aircraft before buying an electric
welder and still use the gas torch half the time.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive
Dave & Darlene wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene"
>--> <dnimigon@telusplanet.net>
>
>Hi List
>Canadian Tire is selling there Mig for $579, $200 savings. It's 175amp.
>Is this a big enough unit for the welding in the XL or 701 that a guy
>has to do. I've been looking for some time now and and watching for
>deals. Any thoughts
>
>Dave
>Alberta
>701 Soon to be started
>601XL (on hold)
>99% to go
>tail parts bent and ready
>www.borrowmyhusband.com/Nimigon_601XL
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
His reply was that mild steel filler was superior to 4130 in areas that were
NOT to be heat treated due to being less brittle.
A real reason you can't use mild steel in heat treated assemblies is that
mild (carbon) steel will not heat treat other than case (surface) hardening.
A very quick (not thorough) check of "Machinery's Handbook" states that a
alloy steel that will through heat treat has 30 parts per thousand of carbon
minimum. The last two digits in steel designations generally refer to ppt
of carbon. Hence cold rolled carbon steel (C1018) has 18 ppt, 4130 alloy
steel has 30 ppt. The carbon content makes the difference.
I would ask Larry Mc to further explain (for us rookies, please use simple
terms) his statement that welds using 4130 rod would be brittle. I was
always under the impression that the reason 4130 was used is that it returns
to it's "normal" state after heating (as in welding), I assumed that would
include welds and all, when using correct "normalizing" technique.
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas
Message 19
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| Subject: | High Intensity Discharge (HID) Landing LIghts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
> For me it's a question of "how bright do you need
> landing lights?" and
> what do you need them for?
Well, I have a single headlight standard system in my
Piper Cherokee, and I can't see much with it even for
taxiing on a dark asphalt taxyway. I can't see the
stuff growing along the side of the taxyway or the
unlighted side markers on the ramp edge. And as for
landing, you are right. Standard lights are pretty
much only for showing the tower that you are coming in
for a landing, and not for actually seeing anything on
the strip before you touch down. So, I guess my
question is, do these newer HID lighting systems
improve this situation any to the point where you are
more comfortible landing and taxiing? Although I
don't have a real problem with landing with the
landing light off on a well marked landing strip. But
it might help to see the deer on the runway just
before I hit them.
> If you want to be seen then install a wig-wag
> flasher....$35 from B&C
I fly in the midwest. No traffic here. And if I do
fly into a towered field (most of them are closed
after dark around here) I can wake up the dispatcher
with a radio call.
> If you want to see the runway...Well from my
> experience landing lights
> are almost useless in this regard...they give you a
> faint glow of the
> tarmac just before you hit it...well ok kinda useful
> but not much in my
> experience.
>
> To me a twice as bright HID is still pretty close to
> useless but you
> added weight and spent more money.
So how about 3 or 5 times as bright? And take less
power to operate them? Any advantage there?
Don
601 XL
Message 20
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| Subject: | High Intensity Discharge (HID) Landing LIghts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
>
>For me it's a question of "how bright do you need landing lights?" and
>what do you need them for?
I agree with Frank on this point. I am not installing Landing/Taxi
lights on my XL.
I think the only reasonable use of these lights is collision
avoidance in the daytime. They are more of a problem than aid in
night landings and taxiing since they don't show you much and ruin
your night vision. If you are operating on a field with runway and
taxi lights you should not use these lights at all. If your airport
doesn't have these lights, then you won't be able to find it anyway.
If you have never tried night operations without headlights, I
strongly urge to do so.
Paul
XL barely started
do not archive
Message 21
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| Subject: | 601xl thrust line |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ken smith <lrepilot@yahoo.com>
I am just about to build the engine mount and a test stand for the
corvair and zenith 601xl. Having searched the archives for both corvair and
zenith, i cannot find a set of numbers for the engine thrust line for
this combination. (several for the 701/801). Any help appreciated.
Ken
Message 22
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ABGS" <abgs@impulse.net.au>
Hi All
I am trying to email RFI Redrives of Indianola Ok rfi@oklatel.net
The email has been returned.
Does anyone know if they are still around or closed up?
If they are still around does anyone have their new email address?
I am trying to get hold of the EJ22 Subrau motor rebuild manual they have, has
anyone got the manual or can tell where I might get one?
Thanks and Fly Safe
Allan
Cummins Spinners
www.cumminsspinners.com
Kit arrives in 2 weeks
Table built and ready
Message 23
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Randy,
4130 rod is an air hardening metal that, during the weld process, can
cool too rapidly as the weld progresses
and if the metal does not relieve its stress, what is called
back-cracking occurs. There is a proper rod
that is drawn steel, a bit better than regular mild, but both can be
made to work if the welder uses the proper
techniques. In the course of a weld, filler and base melt and the
alloys merge to a degree that works
better for general welding by use of a drawn steel rod of lesser
properties than 4130. A 4130 rod used on
4130 plate or tube would be semi-annealed after proper welding, but I'd
not want that kind of rod to be in my
engine mount. Few people can properly normalize or stress relieve a
weld after welding, so that's my reason
for staying with what is predominantly done using a lesser rod.
I'm not speaking for welds that require heat treatment as very few of us
get into the type of welded construct that
requires actual heat treatment after the fact anyway.
respectfully,
Larry McFarland
Randy L. Thwing wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
>
>His reply was that mild steel filler was superior to 4130 in areas that were
>NOT to be heat treated due to being less brittle.
>
>A real reason you can't use mild steel in heat treated assemblies is that
>mild (carbon) steel will not heat treat other than case (surface) hardening.
>A very quick (not thorough) check of "Machinery's Handbook" states that a
>alloy steel that will through heat treat has 30 parts per thousand of carbon
>minimum. The last two digits in steel designations generally refer to ppt
>of carbon. Hence cold rolled carbon steel (C1018) has 18 ppt, 4130 alloy
>steel has 30 ppt. The carbon content makes the difference.
>
>I would ask Larry Mc to further explain (for us rookies, please use simple
>terms) his statement that welds using 4130 rod would be brittle. I was
>always under the impression that the reason 4130 was used is that it returns
>to it's "normal" state after heating (as in welding), I assumed that would
>include welds and all, when using correct "normalizing" technique.
>
>Regards,
>Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: fred sanford <sonar1@cox.net>
Hi guys:
In aircraft building we are always innovating and making jigs, tools,
etc., but today's was a really neat one.
In rebuilding my wing, it seemed much better to drill the new skin from
the inside, than to use a hole-finder which often introduces small
errors with each hole.
We taped a small tv camera onto the side of the drill. These new tiny tv
cameras are really useful!
We were drilling down deep - through two lighting holes, and around the
corner with the holes and the drill always in view. Worked great!.
Pix at :
http:/members.cox.net/sonar1/tvdrill.jpg
Fred Sanford 701 N9701 rebuilding the wing after crash-into by another
plane
Message 25
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "CH701" <701stol@gmail.com>
Great idea Fred!
P.S. Your link has a typo - I believe it should read:
http://members.cox.net/sonar1/tvdrill.jpg
Todd Henning
701 from plans
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of fred sanford
Subject: Zenith-List: TV Drill
--> Zenith-List message posted by: fred sanford <sonar1@cox.net>
Hi guys:
In aircraft building we are always innovating and making jigs, tools,
etc., but today's was a really neat one.
In rebuilding my wing, it seemed much better to drill the new skin from
the inside, than to use a hole-finder which often introduces small
errors with each hole.
We taped a small tv camera onto the side of the drill. These new tiny tv
cameras are really useful!
We were drilling down deep - through two lighting holes, and around the
corner with the holes and the drill always in view. Worked great!.
Pix at :
http:/members.cox.net/sonar1/tvdrill.jpg
Fred Sanford 701 N9701 rebuilding the wing after crash-into by another
plane
Message 26
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ron wehba" <rwehba@pegasusbb.com>
if you use tig,,use a 70s2 filler rod, great for tig welding 4130
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Welder
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> Randy,
> 4130 rod is an air hardening metal that, during the weld process, can
> cool too rapidly as the weld progresses
> and if the metal does not relieve its stress, what is called
> back-cracking occurs. There is a proper rod
> that is drawn steel, a bit better than regular mild, but both can be
> made to work if the welder uses the proper
> techniques. In the course of a weld, filler and base melt and the
> alloys merge to a degree that works
> better for general welding by use of a drawn steel rod of lesser
> properties than 4130. A 4130 rod used on
> 4130 plate or tube would be semi-annealed after proper welding, but I'd
> not want that kind of rod to be in my
> engine mount. Few people can properly normalize or stress relieve a
> weld after welding, so that's my reason
> for staying with what is predominantly done using a lesser rod.
>
> I'm not speaking for welds that require heat treatment as very few of us
> get into the type of welded construct that
> requires actual heat treatment after the fact anyway.
>
> respectfully,
>
> Larry McFarland
>
>
> Randy L. Thwing wrote:
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing"
>><n4546v@mindspring.com>
>>
>>His reply was that mild steel filler was superior to 4130 in areas that
>>were
>>NOT to be heat treated due to being less brittle.
>>
>>A real reason you can't use mild steel in heat treated assemblies is that
>>mild (carbon) steel will not heat treat other than case (surface)
>>hardening.
>>A very quick (not thorough) check of "Machinery's Handbook" states that a
>>alloy steel that will through heat treat has 30 parts per thousand of
>>carbon
>>minimum. The last two digits in steel designations generally refer to ppt
>>of carbon. Hence cold rolled carbon steel (C1018) has 18 ppt, 4130 alloy
>>steel has 30 ppt. The carbon content makes the difference.
>>
>>I would ask Larry Mc to further explain (for us rookies, please use simple
>>terms) his statement that welds using 4130 rod would be brittle. I was
>>always under the impression that the reason 4130 was used is that it
>>returns
>>to it's "normal" state after heating (as in welding), I assumed that would
>>include welds and all, when using correct "normalizing" technique.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: 601xl thrust line |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Ken:
Look at your 601XL drawings for the other engines and you will see where it is.
I don't have my drawings with me, but I was able to determine it by looking at
the engine drawings.
Good luck,
Scott Laughlin
ken smith <lrepilot@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ken smith
I am just about to build the engine mount and a test stand for the
corvair and zenith 601xl. Having searched the archives for both corvair and
zenith, i cannot find a set of numbers for the engine thrust line for
this combination. (several for the 701/801). Any help appreciated.
Ken
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: High Intensity Discharge (HID) Landing LIghts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rick Tedford" <rick.tedford@sympatico.ca>
Hello Don : I feel the XEvision lights would be a lot better because other
traffic would see you better , especially in the daylight , and the life
span is longer . I just burnt out 1 of my 4509,s after about 25 hours of use
( estmated useage ) . Here in northern Ontario we do not have a lot of
traffic normally , but , when in the control zone it is a good saefty
feature to be lit up .
I run a JAB and the out put of the alternator is not a lot , so , a system
where the power requirements is low would be a great feature .
Our night flying equipment requirement includes a heated pitot tube and this
also requires 10 amps+- , therefore a system requiring less amperage is
highly beneficial .
I dont know if this sheds any more light on the subject ( no pun intended )
but for ehat its worth .
601XL , 107 hours
Best regards
Rick Tedford
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Mountain" <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: High Intensity Discharge (HID) Landing LIghts
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
>
>> For me it's a question of "how bright do you need
>> landing lights?" and
>> what do you need them for?
>
> Well, I have a single headlight standard system in my
> Piper Cherokee, and I can't see much with it even for
> taxiing on a dark asphalt taxyway. I can't see the
> stuff growing along the side of the taxyway or the
> unlighted side markers on the ramp edge. And as for
> landing, you are right. Standard lights are pretty
> much only for showing the tower that you are coming in
> for a landing, and not for actually seeing anything on
> the strip before you touch down. So, I guess my
> question is, do these newer HID lighting systems
> improve this situation any to the point where you are
> more comfortible landing and taxiing? Although I
> don't have a real problem with landing with the
> landing light off on a well marked landing strip. But
> it might help to see the deer on the runway just
> before I hit them.
>
>> If you want to be seen then install a wig-wag
>> flasher....$35 from B&C
>
> I fly in the midwest. No traffic here. And if I do
> fly into a towered field (most of them are closed
> after dark around here) I can wake up the dispatcher
> with a radio call.
>
>> If you want to see the runway...Well from my
>> experience landing lights
>> are almost useless in this regard...they give you a
>> faint glow of the
>> tarmac just before you hit it...well ok kinda useful
>> but not much in my
>> experience.
>>
>> To me a twice as bright HID is still pretty close to
>> useless but you
>> added weight and spent more money.
>
> So how about 3 or 5 times as bright? And take less
> power to operate them? Any advantage there?
>
> Don
> 601 XL
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Dynon Angle of Attack |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Carl Bertrand" <cgbrt@mondenet.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dynon Angle of Attack
> Followed the subject discussion with interest. I too am tempted with the
> Dynon "glass cockpit" but have resisted so far due to the $3k Cdn price. I
> also rationalized that it was "too much for my 701". In fact I'm already
> well equipped with steam gauges with one exception; I'm lacking a reliable
> compass due to magnetic anomalies in the cockpit and need a remote sensing
> compass.
> However to install Dynon or not is not what is prompting this post. That
> question I believe is a personal choice. Personally if I did not already
> have a well decorated panel, I would have a Dynon or something similar
> installed in my a/c.
> What really caught my interest was the discussion on the angle of attack
(A
> of A) indicator. I have to agree with those that rate this instrument
right
> up there with the ASI and other flight instrument. I first used one when
> flying CF101 an aircraft that was most unforgiving if stalled. It required
> over 7000 feet to recover and if stalled bellow 10,000 you were instructed
> to bailout. Needless to say that when manoeuvring you always had an eye
on
> the A of A indicator.
> I designed and constructed my own A of A for the CH701. It's presentation
is
> a series of green, yellow and red lights high and directly in front of PIC
> seat. The greens are the lowest/dimmest and the reds are the brightest and
> at the top of the panel.
> There is more than a letter and a number different between the Voodoo and
> the STOL and Chris made sure that stall characteristics of the CH 701 are
> tamer than the Voodoo. With the anticipation of practice stall, most of us
> can recover in less than 100 feet and this looks pretty gentle when done
at
> 3000 feet. But on your next TO or landing take a good look at what 100
feet
> looks like close to the ground! I sure don't want to stall anywhere close
to
> that altitude. A stall at that altitude or lower could be fatal if not
> detected early.
> I can't comment on the CH 601 types. I have 400 hrs on the 701 and think
> it's a great little aircraft but it has one characteristic that I respect
> very much. Because it is light it has little inertia and slows-down
rapidly.
> If I let my speed drop off , loose power in the climb, or encounter wind
> shear on final I need all the help I can get to prevent bent aluminium.
The
> A of A in my opinion is great insurance during such an event. No matter
what
> load I have onboard or what flap setting, it always gives me my angle of
> attack and when those reds start flashing I'd better be ready to land or
> pour-the-coals-on cause she coming down real soon. The A of A has many
other
> uses such as, best angles for range, endurance, climb, glide etc. no
matter
> what load is onboard. Something the ASI can only do if you have a book
full
> of charts to adjust for load ,temperature, altitude etc.
>
> Getting back to Dynon, I have not assessed the A of A for readability. An
A
> of A is useless if it does not get your attention when your busy, like
real
> busy. Therefore it should be right in your face or ear especially when the
> a/c is close to the stall angle.
>
> Returned from Osh to read 617 emails. I was disappointed to be the only
701
> there except ZAC's demo. Took two days out, had to stop short due to
weather
> at Osh on Saturday but returned to Ottawa in three hops on Thursday. Would
> have liked more speed but the STOL on amphibs is comforting when over wild
> country.
>
> Enjoy the list,
>
> Carl CH 701/912/amphibs
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Re Re: Welder / 4130 filler rod |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
John,
> That is blatantly a false statement.
Well, that puts me right on the defensive. It
certainly was not a "blatantly" false statement. This
would mean that it was made "In bad behavior" or
"completely lacking in subtlety." Yes I looked it up.
I also looked up in the welding manual what rod
is recommended for 4130. I tend to trust published
manuals rather my uncle's best friend who is an
engineer for Jelly Belly's. He came up with the hard
shelled coating on Jelly Beans, so he must know about
the tensile strength of a 4130 welded joint.
I hope that I did not describe myself as an
expert in metallurgy; only a guy that has scratch
built a few parts, and a certified welder for 15
years. Not an engineer though, so I couldn't possibly
know everything...
R/
Brandon
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