Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:21 AM - Canadian airports (Grant Corriveau)
2. 02:33 AM - High Intensity Discharge (HID) Landing LIghts (Grant Corriveau)
3. 03:27 AM - Re: High Intensity Discharge (HID) Landing LIghts (Paul Mulwitz)
4. 06:22 AM - Re: Fw: Angle of Attack (ron dewees)
5. 07:09 AM - Re:Welder / 4130 filler rod (Dabusmith@aol.com)
6. 07:18 AM - Re: Re: Fw: Angle of Attack (Paul Mulwitz)
7. 07:38 AM - Re: Re Re: Welder / 4130 filler rod (Larry McFarland)
8. 08:50 AM - Re: High Intensity Discharge (HID) Landing Lights (Bryan Martin)
9. 04:07 PM - Re: Re: Fw: Angle of Attack (Zodie Rocket)
10. 05:23 PM - Re: Re: Fw: Angle of Attack (ron dewees)
11. 09:38 PM - Re: Fw: Dynon Angle of Attack (Tebenkof@AOL.COM)
12. 11:08 PM - Re: Re: Fw: Angle of Attack (Gary Gower)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Canadian airports |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
Also see this one -- and add information about your favourite airport
http://www.copanational.org/PlacesToFly/
> Time: 06:55:29 AM PST US
> From: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Canadian airports
> "Airports in Canada", owned by George Plews, a Flight Service Specialist.
> http://www.plews.ca/AirportsinCanada.htm
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | High Intensity Discharge (HID) Landing LIghts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
> If you have never tried night operations without headlights, I
> strongly urge to do so.
Or just taxii all the time with your eyes closed for even more of a
challenge! I'd rather see the area I'm taxing over thanks... airport
surfaces sometimes contain 'stuff' that shouldn't be there...
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: High Intensity Discharge (HID) Landing LIghts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
> > If you have never tried night operations without headlights, I
> > strongly urge to do so.
>
>Or just taxii all the time with your eyes closed for even more of a
>challenge! I'd rather see the area I'm taxing over thanks... airport
>surfaces sometimes contain 'stuff' that shouldn't be there...
A great point!
The odd part of all this is you can actually see more with the lights
off. This assumes you have been in the dark for long enough to
develop "Night Vision" - about 20 minutes. In this condition, your
pupils are so wide open the ambient light is enough so you see
remarkably well. This is incredible if there is moon light, but
still works even when there is no moon.
When your eyes are exposed to a bright white light the pupils close
down. That means for the next 20 minutes or so all you can see is
brightly illuminated things. Red light doesn't have the same
impact. That is why it is normal to use red lights in the cockpit at
night. That way you can see your instruments and still see the
landscape outside.
I know this all sounds insane to someone who has never tried it. On
the other hand, it is so crazy maybe the guy talking about it has
actually experienced it rather than making it up.
Enjoy!
Paul
XL barely started
do not archive
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Angle of Attack |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Hi Carl,
You are preaching to the choir here with praise of the AOA gauge. I
built one with a probe that Scott Laughlin made for me and got an analog
meter on Ebay for $20. All up cost was about $60 and it is THE
instrument I use at landing and takeoff. You put it up there with ASI,
but a wing can stall at any speed and the ASI doesn't always predict it,
but the AOA is right on with where the lift is, or is not.
Sounds like you have really made a humdinger of a gauge. Mine is
totally air driven and can't fail with a battery. Guess I am like you
and like a lot of eye candy stuff in the panel. I already had two ASI
gauges , one digital and one analog so forsaking both for the AOA
surprised me till I made the first few flights with it. Forget stalling
at 100 feet, don't do it at 3 feet unless you like prop strikes and
landing gear repairs.
Good luck,
Ron N601TD
Carl Bertrand wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Carl Bertrand" <cgbrt@mondenet.com>
>
>
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dynon Angle of Attack
>
>
>
>
>>Followed the subject discussion with interest. I too am tempted with the
>>Dynon "glass cockpit" but have resisted so far due to the $3k Cdn price. I
>>also rationalized that it was "too much for my 701". In fact I'm already
>>well equipped with steam gauges with one exception; I'm lacking a reliable
>>compass due to magnetic anomalies in the cockpit and need a remote sensing
>>compass.
>>However to install Dynon or not is not what is prompting this post. That
>>question I believe is a personal choice. Personally if I did not already
>>have a well decorated panel, I would have a Dynon or something similar
>>installed in my a/c.
>>What really caught my interest was the discussion on the angle of attack
>>
>>
>(A
>
>
>>of A) indicator. I have to agree with those that rate this instrument
>>
>>
>right
>
>
>>up there with the ASI and other flight instrument. I first used one when
>>flying CF101 an aircraft that was most unforgiving if stalled. It required
>>over 7000 feet to recover and if stalled bellow 10,000 you were instructed
>>to bailout. Needless to say that when manoeuvring you always had an eye
>>
>>
>on
>
>
>>the A of A indicator.
>>I designed and constructed my own A of A for the CH701. It's presentation is
>>
<snip>
>>
>>Enjoy the list,
>>
>>Carl CH 701/912/amphibs
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re:Welder / 4130 filler rod |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com
>MIG lacks control for a weld that
is more demanding and critical to safety.
>His reply was that mild steel filler was superior to 4130 in areas that were
NOT to be heat treated due to being less brittle.
I believe Maule uses MiG welding for their fuselage don't they?. I have used
tig with 4130 rod many times and never a hint of trouble. Mild steel rod
works great also. I am convinced if the design is sound ,the parts fit well and
the weld looks good, it will hold up very well. I have heard conflicting
arguments from very qualified sources, but the welds, if they are nice, just
don't seem to fail. Just had to stir the pot.
BTW I'm leaving for Idaho Sunday for some back country flying. I'll test my
welds.
Dave Smith
N701XL
912ULS 470 HR
>Do not archive<
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Angle of Attack |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>Hi Carl,
>You are preaching to the choir here with praise of the AOA gauge. I
>built one with a probe that Scott Laughlin made for me and got an analog
>meter on Ebay for $20. All up cost was about $60 and it is THE
>instrument I use at landing and takeoff. You put it up there with ASI,
>but a wing can stall at any speed and the ASI doesn't always predict it,
>but the AOA is right on with where the lift is, or is not.
> Sounds like you have really made a humdinger of a gauge. Mine is
>totally air driven and can't fail with a battery
I have two questions:
1. What is the design for your $60 AOA? (And what does "can't fail
with a battery" mean?
2. Why are AOAs so popular with jet jockeys and unheard-of in
general aviation?
I have no doubt there is some value to having an AOA in a very light
plane with nearly instant stall recovery, but it is not clear to me
exactly what that value is. There is the "Stall Warning"
function. Also, there seems to be a multitude of other uses that I
have heard vague reference to but don't understand at all.
I understand from the first post in this batch that stall recovery is
so difficult in a jet fighter that it is critical to avoid it. This
is just not the case in a light plane.
I have a feeling there is some really important stuff here and I am
just "Not getting it". I would really appreciate a more detailed
understanding of the issues and solutions here.
Thanks,
Paul
XL barely started
do not archive
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Re Re: Welder / 4130 filler rod |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Brandon,
I apologize for not being more specific, but the application we speak to
is aircraft welding and as a mere retired designer, (not engineer) Ive
had to depend upon recommendations of Lindes Oxy-Acetylene Handbook.
Most of what Ive said comes from Chapter 22, Procedure Control as
Applied to Aircraft Welding. This book is one of the best manuals from
Union Carbide Ive read on gas welding at all applications and I highly
recommend it.
Anyone can learn to gas weld given that it doesnt get much more complex
than selecting a rod that wont get a new welder into trouble. I use a
.062 diameter FR70-S2 rod, which is the same rod I use to TIG weld
thinner 4130 aircraft materials.
The serious advantage for considering TIG is that welding aluminum is
much easier than oxy-acetylene.
MIG is not appropriate for most of us mostly because it doesnt provide
variable control of heat, melt and feed rates that we can provide
manually using Gas or TIG. A factory will program a robot and adjust
rates over and over until they have production, but we aircraft builders
generally only get a couple of shots at it.
Good luck,
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Brandon Tucker wrote:
> I also looked up in the welding manual what rod
>is recommended for 4130. I tend to trust published
>manuals
> I hope that I did not describe myself as an
>expert in metallurgy; only a guy that has scratch
>built a few parts, and a certified welder for 15
>years. Not an engineer though, so I couldn't possibly
>know everything...
>
>R/
>
>Brandon
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: High Intensity Discharge (HID) Landing Lights |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
I installed a set of HID off-road lights in my XL. I bought these lights
from JC Whitney for $600/pair. I had to fabricate a mounting pad for them
with a small access hole under thte wing to get at the mounting bolt for
adjustment. They do light up the runway significantly farther away than
standard lights. I think they would allow you to spot the reflection from a
deer's eyes from even farther away. This might be the big benefit of these
lights. If you operate from an private strip, a good set of reflectors
marking the runway would let these lights guide you in at night. They
really light up the path ahead of you on the taxiway also.
They don't seem to carry this brand anymore, the only one I found there now
is this one for $800:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W2EB31B9B
This place has some relatively inexpensive HID spot lights and fog lights
for sale:
http://www.autodirectsave.com/REAL_KIT_SYSTEM.asp
You would have to make your own mounting bracket for them.
You can do a google search for HID off road lights and find several other
sources for this type of light.
HID lights do tend to be expensive but they really light up the night and
the low current draw and long bulb life allows you to operate them
continuously in high traffic areas make you more visible to other traffic.
As far as a wig-wag system goes, how about a light-weight set of shutters
installed in front of the lights actuated by a small solonoid and a spring
to hold them open? This would be heavier than a standard wig-wag circuit
bout would only have to switch a few milliamps instaid of several amps.
on 8/12/05 1:13 PM, Don Mountain at mountain4don@yahoo.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
>
> I am finishing up the wings on my 601 XL, and a friend
> told me to consider High-Intensity Discharge (HID)
> Xenon, or Metal Halide Lamps for the landing and taxi
> lights. One supplier I found on the internet is:
>
> http://www.xevision.com/
>
> Has anybody tried these and have any comment on them?
> Are they worth the money? It looks like they may be
> brighter than the ZAC supplied bulbs, burn less power,
> and last a lot longer.
>
> Don
> 601 XL, tail done, finishing up wings
>
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Angle of Attack |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Hi Paul lets bring this back to the start, you can find the AOA (lift
reserve system) at http://www.ch601.org/builder%20resources.htm scroll
down to the Instruments section. You will also find a link to installing
one and some of the how it works. This is where Scott got his
information on it, and YES once you fly with one you will never be
without again!
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
1. What is the design for your $60 AOA? (And what does "can't fail
with a battery" mean?
Thanks,
Paul
XL barely started
do not archive
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
--
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Angle of Attack |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Hi Paul,
One of the most creative guys I have run across is Scott Laughlin and
he has a great website with photos and details of his scratchbuilt
601XL. Last year when he was machining a probe for his AOA gauge as
described several places on the internet and the 601 Builders group, he
asked me if I wanted a probe. I said yes, and mine is just like the
plans except that I polished it up a bit to make it look a bit slicker
and cut the weight down. He was kind enough to post the pictures I sent
to him and they are on his website at:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/RonDeWees/Ron.html
My situation may be a bit different from others since I fly out of a
short turf strip with the actual 50 foot obstacle at each end of the
field. My 601HDS is a taildragger and doesn't seem to have any angle at
which it "drops out from under you" or give a decent rate of descent.
In fact it floats and floats, etc. I tried 70 mph finals, 65 mph
finals, and 60 mph finals till I was fearful of getting into the coffin
corner of the envelope. When I added the AOA I found that I was being
conservative in my takeoff and landing numbers and can watch the lift
develop as I accelerate for takeoff, or the lift decay as I slow for
final. When I do mild areobatics and raise the nose till it's very
steep I can see the lift change and kick rudder in exactly before I am
out of momentum and lift. I am aware of the ASI at these times but find
that the lag in indicated speed is quite inexact as opposed to the
instantaneous readout of the AOA gauge. As the pix will indicate, I
put it in the most prominemt place on the panel and have never regretted
it. I say it's more or less foolproof because it works off two plastic
tubes similar to pitot and static lines and goes directly to the gauge,
which is actually a differential water pressure gauge. The only thing
that would screw it up would be dirt in the probe, ice, or kinked lines.
The battery isn't used at all unless I add a POST light to it
I hope a friend of mine will forgive me for mentioning his experience
today, but while landing his 601 in hot conditions it dropped out from
under him at the modest height of 3 feet or so. He had a prop strike
and it will take a lot of work to find the extent of the damage to the
plane. Nobody can say what an AOA gauge would have said, or if the
readout would have been fast enough to predict the stall, but they are
an analog display of lift. Your buzzer says it's almost stalled, but
until you hear it you didn't know. The AOA reads all the way from full
scale lift to below stall for really positive indication of the wing's
performance.
Best of luck and do some research. "Opinions will vary and your
results may be different," as they say.
Ron
do not archive
Paul Mulwitz wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
>
>
>
>>Hi Carl,
>>You are preaching to the choir here with praise of the AOA gauge. I
>>built one with a probe that Scott Laughlin made for me and got an analog
>>meter on Ebay for $20. All up cost was about $60 and it is THE
>>instrument I use at landing and takeoff. You put it up there with ASI,
>>but a wing can stall at any speed and the ASI doesn't always predict it,
>>but the AOA is right on with where the lift is, or is not.
>> Sounds like you have really made a humdinger of a gauge. Mine is
>>totally air driven and can't fail with a battery
>>
>>
>
>
>I have two questions:
>
>1. What is the design for your $60 AOA? (And what does "can't fail
>with a battery" mean?
>
>2. Why are AOAs so popular with jet jockeys and unheard-of in
>general aviation?
>
>I have no doubt there is some value to having an AOA in a very light
>plane with nearly instant stall recovery, but it is not clear to me
>exactly what that value is. There is the "Stall Warning"
>function. Also, there seems to be a multitude of other uses that I
>have heard vague reference to but don't understand at all.
>
>I understand from the first post in this batch that stall recovery is
>so difficult in a jet fighter that it is critical to avoid it. This
>is just not the case in a light plane.
>
>I have a feeling there is some really important stuff here and I am
>just "Not getting it". I would really appreciate a more detailed
>understanding of the issues and solutions here.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Paul
>XL barely started
>do not archive
>
>
>---------------------------------------------
>Paul Mulwitz
>32013 NE Dial Road
>Camas, WA 98607
>---------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Angle of Attack |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com
Carl,
Thanks for prompting more discussion of AOAs. Though I have yet to fly
with my Lift Reserve Indicator (Courtesy of Scott's assistance) I can well
believe it is an essential basic flight instrument. Today we installed the
probe, having taken a "flight" in a friend's Mazda to determine the best angle
as
a place to start in setting up the probe on the wing. We probably drove five
miles without a stall!
I am also considering the Dynon, but not for its AOA, which looks to me like
it does anything but jump out at you. Though you can probably get used to
looking for that little graph in the lower corner of the instrument it just
feels like too little and too well hidden IMHO. If I order the Dynon it will
be without the AOA probe, for all the other good stuff it has.
In theory, because I have yet to fly it, the kind of flying the 701 inspires
(short short fields etc) seem a perfect place for the AOA. Being able to
fly every approach consistently regardless of load or other conditions which
may make ASI a poor predictor of stall sounds really good.
Jim
701/Portland
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Angle of Attack |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
To get a good idea of the benefits of a AOA go to this page and give it a complete
rea"d:
http://www.liftreserve.com/
I have one installed in our 701 and is great.
This are also two great articles, in an RV 6:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/liftreserve.htm
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/liftreserve-pg2.htm
Enjoy...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
>Hi Carl,
>You are preaching to the choir here with praise of the AOA gauge. I
>built one with a probe that Scott Laughlin made for me and got an analog
>meter on Ebay for $20. All up cost was about $60 and it is THE
>instrument I use at landing and takeoff. You put it up there with ASI,
>but a wing can stall at any speed and the ASI doesn't always predict it,
>but the AOA is right on with where the lift is, or is not.
> Sounds like you have really made a humdinger of a gauge. Mine is
>totally air driven and can't fail with a battery
I have two questions:
1. What is the design for your $60 AOA? (And what does "can't fail
with a battery" mean?
2. Why are AOAs so popular with jet jockeys and unheard-of in
general aviation?
I have no doubt there is some value to having an AOA in a very light
plane with nearly instant stall recovery, but it is not clear to me
exactly what that value is. There is the "Stall Warning"
function. Also, there seems to be a multitude of other uses that I
have heard vague reference to but don't understand at all.
I understand from the first post in this batch that stall recovery is
so difficult in a jet fighter that it is critical to avoid it. This
is just not the case in a light plane.
I have a feeling there is some really important stuff here and I am
just "Not getting it". I would really appreciate a more detailed
understanding of the issues and solutions here.
Thanks,
Paul
XL barely started
do not archive
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|