---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/16/05: 30 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:06 AM - Re: High Intensity Discharge (HID) Landing LIghts (Leo Gates) 2. 07:30 AM - 601 Rudder Modification (JAPhillipsGA@AOL.COM) 3. 08:11 AM - Re: 601 Rudder Modification (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 4. 09:02 AM - Re: 601 Rudder Modification (Larry McFarland) 5. 09:02 AM - First flight of N414PZ (Paul Hartl) 6. 09:22 AM - Re: 601 Rudder Modification (ron dewees) 7. 09:40 AM - Jabiru Engine Seminar--A brief report (Bob Miller) 8. 09:48 AM - Re: First flight of N414PZ (Paul Mulwitz) 9. 09:49 AM - Re: 601 Rudder Modification (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 10. 09:54 AM - Re: First flight of N414PZ (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 11. 10:06 AM - Re: Jabiru Engine Seminar--A brief report 0.12 MISSING_HEADERS ... (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 12. 10:07 AM - Re: 601 Rudder Modification (Paul Mulwitz) 13. 10:07 AM - Re: 601 Rudder Modification (Leo Corbalis) 14. 10:15 AM - Re: First flight of N414PZ (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 15. 10:30 AM - Re: 601 Rudder Modification (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 16. 11:27 AM - Source for Adell clamps (Roger Venables) 17. 11:35 AM - Baloney detection 101!! ;-) (Grant Corriveau) 18. 11:42 AM - Re: Source for Adell clamps (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 19. 11:45 AM - Re: Source for Adell clamps (Lance Gingell) 20. 11:46 AM - Re: AOA question (Cleone Markwell) 21. 11:49 AM - The Research... (Beckman, Rick) 22. 12:07 PM - Re: First flight of N414PZ (Larry McFarland) 23. 12:18 PM - Re: 601 Rudder Modification (Larry McFarland) 24. 12:23 PM - Re: Baloney detection 101!! ;-) (Paul Mulwitz) 25. 12:54 PM - Re: 601 Rudder Modification (ron dewees) 26. 01:04 PM - Re: Baloney detection 101!! ;-) (John Adamson) 27. 04:48 PM - Re: The Research... (David Alberti) 28. 07:01 PM - Re: Re: Very Cool Tail Light (Was: Rotating beacon) (Carlos Sa) 29. 11:30 PM - Re: [aviation] Re: 601 Rudder Modification (Bruce Bockius) 30. 11:56 PM - Re: [aviation] Re: 601 Rudder Modification (Lance Gingell) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:18 AM PST US From: "Leo Gates" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: High Intensity Discharge (HID) Landing LIghts --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Gates" Another recommended procedure for emergency night landings is: Trim for hands off glide, at about 200' AGL lean forward and kiss your ass good by Do not archive. Leo Gates N601Z -------Original Message------- From: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: High Intensity Discharge (HID) Landing LIghts --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Tipton" The best quote I have heard regarding landing lights is for an emergency landing at night, "pick the darkest 'hole' you can find and head toward it... as you land, if you don't like what you see in your landing lights, turn them off!" ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:30 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@AOL.COM Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Dear Thread Friends, I have been looking at the front of my rudder and wondering if the area of the nose that hangs over the fiberglass cover for the elevator control cable might be a large air catcher. If you look at the front of the rudder from the nose of the plane with the rudder kicked either left or right I can see that the area is as large as my hand to my wrist and flowing air stream to the rear would smack into that pocket. Anybody else notice this? I might make a plate of .19 and attach it flush to the inside of that lip that would allow air flow around the nose bottom instead of into it. Anybody got any thoughts? Frank, what do you think? Best regards, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:11:23 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Bruce Bockius did exactly this. The tips of the RV are also finished in a similar way. My guess is that it would be beneficial as would covering all those gaps under the horizontal tail. If I ever got into this with the HDS I would investigate gap covers on the ailerons and possibly the elevaors as well. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Dear Thread Friends, I have been looking at the front of my rudder and wondering if the area of the nose that hangs over the fiberglass cover for the elevator control cable might be a large air catcher. If you look at the front of the rudder from the nose of the plane with the rudder kicked either left or right I can see that the area is as large as my hand to my wrist and flowing air stream to the rear would smack into that pocket. Anybody else notice this? I might make a plate of .19 and attach it flush to the inside of that lip that would allow air flow around the nose bottom instead of into it. Anybody got any thoughts? Frank, what do you think? Best regards, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:10 AM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Bill, Easy, process requires a little piece of posterboard to trace around and then reduce it by a 1/16" all round and transfer that to a couple of pieces of wood and cut out forms. Same process as making rib forms. Put a 7-degree back angle to allow you to get the 90-degree bend and after the rib's formed put your rivet interval in to match the rib above it. See links of completed filler rib and elevator trail edge. http://www.macsmachine.com/images/rudder/full/ruddernose.gif http://www.macsmachine.com/images/elevator/full/centercutout.gif Both this forward part of the rudder and the elevator center trailing edges need to be finished. Larry McFarland - 601HDS @ www.macsmachine.com JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com > >Dear Thread Friends, I have been looking at the front of my rudder and >wondering if the area of the nose that hangs over the fiberglass cover for the >elevator control cable might be a large air catcher. If you look at the front of >the rudder from the nose of the plane with the rudder kicked either left or >right I can see that the area is as large as my hand to my wrist and flowing air >stream to the rear would smack into that pocket. Anybody else notice this? I >might make a plate of .19 and attach it flush to the inside of that lip that >would allow air flow around the nose bottom instead of into it. Anybody got any >thoughts? Frank, what do you think? Best regards, Bill of Georgia > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:10 AM PST US From: "Paul Hartl" Subject: Zenith-List: First flight of N414PZ --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Hartl" Hi All, What is the old saying, Any landing you walk away from is a good one? So that's one good landing, and a pretty exciting morning of being a test pilot. Everything went well, at least from the airplane's perspective, but the test pilot was a might anxious and didn't exactly execute every pre-planned action according to the book. In fact, I didn't really plan to takeoff this morning, not at least until I had completed a couple of land-backs (a.k.a., crow hops). But the 2nd of these maneuvers put the plane a bit high in the air and not in a perfect land-back position, so I elected to fly instead, and applied full power. The plane responded beautifully, and flew nicely, with no balance problems, either fore to aft, nor side to side. So I was airborne in a well behaved airplane - which was nice, except that the radio chose this moment to no longer suppress noise (i.e., my squelch function disappeared). That would have been OK, except that I was flying from a towered airport, and the 2nd busiest in Idaho, with lots of high speed aircraft, including numerous corporate jets. The resulting difficulty in hearing what tower was trying to tell me made for a fairly flustering experience, and made the whole thing much less of the exhilarating experience I was hoping for, and instead yet one more problem-solving affair. As for specs of the flight, I don't have too many, as I was just a little too distracted by my radio problems. But here is what I have: outside air temp: 70 degrees F airport elevation: 5320' aircraft's empty weight: 695 lb aircraft type: CH601 HDS engine: Jabiru 3300A, with new, 2nd-generation cowl and ram-air ducts airspeed indicator: Dynon with Dynon probe takeoff weight: 940 lb takeoff roll: short (less than 1000') rate of climb: I don't know! Something like the Archer II I rent, perhaps 700 fpm duration of flight: ~40 minutes max altitude reached: 8600' (she had lots left to go higher) stall speed (IAS @ 8600'): about 55 mph stall characteristics: hardly noticeable, some rumbling (oil canning), and a loss of altitude landing approach speed: 90 mph IAS over the fence: about 80 mph max level flight speed (that I noticed - I wasn't really looking): 119 mph IAS @ 7500' max oil temp: about 190 degrees F max cylinder head temp: 298 degrees F oil pressure: steady around 50 psi Hopefully I'll be a little more cognizant of all of these things on the next flights, but the upshot is that she flies well, and easily, and that I no longer have those nagging doubts about whether she will be control-able once airborne. You builders out there, keep it up. 7 years was a long time, but it's pretty amazing to actually fly in something you built with your own two hands! N414PZ flies - and beautifully! Paul -- Paul Hartl, N414PZ, 601HDS/Jabiru 3300A My Flight Simulator 2002/4 Zodiac Website: http//members.cox.net/paulhartl SunValley, Idaho 83340 208-788-9147 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:22:20 AM PST US From: ron dewees Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees Hi Bill, I guess it's a bit like putting chrome on a tractor, but I did see the same thing and took some very thin aluminum gutter flashing and fashioned a plate with a lip around it and rivited it into the rudder hole. Don't know if it helps flying or not, but it looks a little more finished. Ron in Atlanta do not archive JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com > >Dear Thread Friends, I have been looking at the front of my rudder and >wondering if the area of the nose that hangs over the fiberglass cover for the >elevator control cable might be a large air catcher. If you look at the front of >the rudder from the nose of the plane with the rudder kicked either left or >right I can see that the area is as large as my hand to my wrist and flowing air >stream to the rear would smack into that pocket. Anybody else notice this? I >might make a plate of .19 and attach it flush to the inside of that lip that >would allow air flow around the nose bottom instead of into it. Anybody got any >thoughts? Frank, what do you think? Best regards, Bill of Georgia > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:40:24 AM PST US From: Bob Miller Subject: Zenith-List: Jabiru Engine Seminar--A brief report 0.12 MISSING_HEADERS Missing To: header --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bob Miller Of the 8 of us attending the August 4-5 Jabiru engine seminar at JabiruUSA in Shelbyville, Tennessee, 6 of us were Zodiac drivers. (Well, a couple of us are at still future Zodie drivers, while the others already making trees and clouds get bigger and smaller at will). Don Richter, a cheerful Aussie from the Jabiru factory, and Pete Krotje, owner of JabiruUSA, team taught the seminar. Don has been with Jabiru from the earliest days, and brought to Jabiru his background in building and maintaining racing engines in cars and boats. Since he's been in charge of Jabiru's engine program since the inception, he's clearly the world's foremost authority on these engines. Fortunately for us he's also a helluva a nice guy with a very understandable way of explaining the engine and responding to our many questions. I learned more than I expected, and found it far more useful than I'd hoped. The integrity and commitment that Don and the whole Jabiru Australian operation have brought to the development and continuing refinement of this engine comes through loud and clear. Pete Krotje's operation in Shelbyville is substantial and impressive, and his employees are some of the most friendly, helpful and professional people I've met in this or any other business. During breaks in the seminar, I took the time to wander around the large hangar and ask questions. No matter what they were doing, everybody including the test pilot, builders and builder assistants immediately turned their attention to my questions, and answered them thoroughly. A most rewarding experience. Overall, the seminar not only made me pleased with my engine choice (the 85hp Jabiru 2200) but much more confident in my ability to set-up, maintain and operate the engine with the utmost reliability and safety. (And if I can, believe me, anybody can!) It also made me confident that Pete and the rest of the folks at JabiruUSA have a very successful operation that will continue to provide reliable service to its customers. Re-reading what I've written here, it sounds like a paid testimonial, but it's not. I just want to share something that I found tremendously valuable with this great group of builders who have been so helpful to me. And I do want to help out the Jabiru folks, because they are a great bunch with a solid product. It's too seldom that things turn out better than hoped, and I really encourage all of you who have not decided on an engine to seriously consider the Jab, and those of you who are installing or flying the Jab to attend the seminar if it is offered again. The best money I've spent so far in the pursuit of building this aircraft. Now if I can ever get to that first flight. Bob Miller ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:48:59 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First flight of N414PZ --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz Congratulations Paul It sounds like the first flight couldn't have been any better - even if you had planned it. Keep up the good, and safe, flying. Paul XL barely started do not archive At 09:01 AM 8/16/2005, you wrote: > What is the old saying, Any landing you walk away from is a good >one? So that's one good landing, and a pretty exciting morning of >being a test pilot. Everything went well, at least from the airplane's >perspective, but the test pilot was a might anxious and didn't exactly >execute every pre-planned action according to the book. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:49:06 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Ron, you mean like Frank said last week, "lipstick on a pig" ? Bill ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:54:30 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First flight of N414PZ --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Paul, Congratulations !!!! Most fun you can have with your clothes on, Right ? Now for a quick 39 hours and 20 minutes to freedom, Best regards, I know your proud, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:45 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru Engine Seminar--A brief report 0.12 MISSING_HEADERS ... --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Bob, sounds like such a seminar was a real benefit. Did Pete mention why he didn't video/CD the whole thing for resale and distribution to all us poor stiffs out working our tails off to pay for FWF kits ? Seems like a product I would pay for, maybe many others would pay for same. Pete, you reading this ? Real Good idea, Right ? I don't expect any compensation for my good ideas, course if you agree and it makes you some doe you could send me a complementary Econo Tuning Kit for my 3300 in appreciation and gratitude, Best regards, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:35 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz I wonder if the rudder moves much at all while in flight. Perhaps it is like the ailerons where you apply pressure and get response from the plane but no real movement of the control surface. If the rudder doesn't move very much would this make the problem disappear? Paul XL barely started do not archive At 07:28 AM 8/16/2005, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com > >Dear Thread Friends, I have been looking at the front of my rudder and >wondering if the area of the nose that hangs over the fiberglass >cover for the >elevator control cable might be a large air catcher. If you look at >the front of >the rudder from the nose of the plane with the rudder kicked either left or >right I can see that the area is as large as my hand to my wrist and >flowing air >stream to the rear would smack into that pocket. Anybody else notice this? I >might make a plate of .19 and attach it flush to the inside of that lip that >would allow air flow around the nose bottom instead of into it. >Anybody got any >thoughts? Frank, what do you think? Best regards, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:37 AM PST US From: "Leo Corbalis" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" Don't bother. I filled the hole with foam and fiberglassed the surface flat. Net result, not even a 1 knot change in airspeed. The only time you use significant rudder deflection is when spinning or power on stalls. Rolling in and out of turns does take a small deflection but only momentarily. I was disappointed by the result of all my effort. Leo Corbalis ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification > --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com > > Dear Thread Friends, I have been looking at the front of my rudder and > wondering if the area of the nose that hangs over the fiberglass cover for > the > elevator control cable might be a large air catcher. If you look at the > front of > the rudder from the nose of the plane with the rudder kicked either left > or > right I can see that the area is as large as my hand to my wrist and > flowing air > stream to the rear would smack into that pocket. Anybody else notice this? > I > might make a plate of .19 and attach it flush to the inside of that lip > that > would allow air flow around the nose bottom instead of into it. Anybody > got any > thoughts? Frank, what do you think? Best regards, Bill of Georgia > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:14 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First flight of N414PZ From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" I second that!...Congratulations Paul, it really is a nice lill'e airplane with many hours of fun ahead. Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First flight of N414PZ --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Paul, Congratulations !!!! Most fun you can have with your clothes on, Right ? Now for a quick 39 hours and 20 minutes to freedom, Best regards, I know your proud, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:30:40 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Not totally surprised, sadly drag reductions make much less difference on a 100mph airplane than they do on a 200mph craft. I'm certain there are gains to be had though...cowling inlet size, sloping the deck behind the canopy etc. Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Leo Corbalis Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" --> Don't bother. I filled the hole with foam and fiberglassed the surface flat. Net result, not even a 1 knot change in airspeed. The only time you use significant rudder deflection is when spinning or power on stalls. Rolling in and out of turns does take a small deflection but only momentarily. I was disappointed by the result of all my effort. Leo Corbalis ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification > --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com > > Dear Thread Friends, I have been looking at the front of my rudder and > wondering if the area of the nose that hangs over the fiberglass cover for > the > elevator control cable might be a large air catcher. If you look at the > front of > the rudder from the nose of the plane with the rudder kicked either left > or > right I can see that the area is as large as my hand to my wrist and > flowing air > stream to the rear would smack into that pocket. Anybody else notice this? > I > might make a plate of .19 and attach it flush to the inside of that lip > that > would allow air flow around the nose bottom instead of into it. Anybody > got any > thoughts? Frank, what do you think? Best regards, Bill of Georgia > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:27:43 AM PST US From: "Roger Venables" Subject: Zenith-List: Source for Adell clamps --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Venables" Can't seem to find a source for Adell Clamps. Any suggestions? Roger Venables CH 701 N143TZ , ruddeer and stabilizer finished, busy on elevator ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:35:53 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Baloney detection 101!! ;-) From: Grant Corriveau --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau Fellow listers, On this list, and elsewhere in life, we all come up against the problem of filtering through conflicting facts, opinions and statements to try to find an answer to a problem. Whether it's deciding how many and which tools you'll really need to build our airplane, to what kind of equipment to install, to how to fly it, etc. etc. etc... you'll not only come across differing opinions, but often diametrically opposed opinions, claims and directives. How do we find the truth in all this? I just read an article that contains good advice. It's written about bible study (see the links), but I've obtained permission to post the salient points that would apply to most any field of endeavour. I hope it may be of help in planning, building and safely flying our aircraft. best Grant Corriveau C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100 ----------------------- http://www.ptm.org/O5PT/JulAug/baloney.pdf http://www.ptm.org/05PT/JulAug/SelectArtcl.htm#BALONEY BALONEY DETECTION 101 by Jerry Griffin The Fundamentals ... How can we separate fact from fiction and avoid swallowing a lot of baloney, ... For starters, here are some basic tools that should be part of everyone's baloney detection kit. 1 Examine the methodology. Ask yourself, "How do I know what I know? On what am I basing my understanding, and how valid is the reasoning?" 2 Verify the information. Don't rely on assumption, hearsay, conjecture, wishful thinking, propaganda, fibs or halftruths. Check it out. 3 Keep learning. Separating fact from fiction requires ongoing study, research and reading ... our best protection against misinformation is scholarship the personal responsibility that each of us has to examine and express information as accurately as possible.... scholarship is not just for academic professionals. It's a set of skills we all can use on a daily basis -- skills, such as, how to think critically and sort through today's information overload. Additional Guidelines To flesh out the fundamentals of scholarship in more detail, here are some additional tools for your baloney-detection toolbox. 4 Always go to the original sources in any field of study to obtain or verify information.... The mere fact that a statement, claim or opinion appears in print doesn't automatically make it true. Follow the principle of confirming every point by two or three reliable witnesses. 5 Be careful with generalizations. Avoid extending a particular to the whole (example: the terrorist in the news was a Muslim, so all Muslims must be terrorists). Also, avoid applying the whole to a particular (example: most Arabs are Muslims, so that Arab must be a Muslim). 6 Avoid the fallacy that fails to recognize distinctions. For example, someone may argue that because a and b are alike in some respects they are alike in all respects. Or one may try to argue the reverse: because a and b are different in some respects they are different in all respects. This all-or-nothing argument is another form of generalization. 7 Guard against the selective and prejudicial use of evidence, especially background material. Selective evidence does not constitute proof. For example, someone may cite a limited example as proof of his point, while excluding other examples that contradict his point. 8 Context is key; always pay attention to it when reading the Bible or any reference material. Read with the flow of thought in mind. And read with a critical eye: Who is saying what to whom, and why? What is going on? What are the underlying factors? What are the issues? What are the basic assumptions? What is the nature of the authors arguments, and how does he argue his points? 9 Avoid purely emotional appeals. Showing emotion or being passionate about what one believes is certainly appropriate. But using emotional appeals as a substitute for evidence or logic is not. Emotional appeals often deteriorate into sarcasm and are a cheap way of dismissing other views without dealing with their content. 10 Recognize and avoid a host of other fallacies, such as: a. Arguments from silence ... That's a bit like saying that just because pigs don't have wings doesn't mean they still couldn't fly. b. Either-or arguments "Either you believe this, or you're an idiot." Most likely, those are not the only two options. c. Stringing disconnected facts together illogically, arriving at an absurd conclusion ... d. Attacking the person instead of addressing his point "Look who's talking - a known thespian who was once seen matriculating in public!" e. Guilt by association - "He claims to be a conservative, but you can't believe a word he says because he went to one of those eastern, liberal schools. Yale, I believe." f. Circular reasoning - "If America is a Christian nation, then all Americans are Christians." g. Invalid arguments... The conclusion is invalid because the ... premises are false. Conclusion Given human nature, accurate information has always been hard to come by, and the problem has only intensified in our age of instantaneous communication. Weapons of mass distortion threaten our ability to separate fact from fiction as never before. And these weapons are just as destructive to society as the explosive kind - maybe more so, because they influence how people think and then behave towards one another. ...make the following code of ethics your battle plan: Always do your best. Pay attention to detail. Be impeccable with your facts. Don't assume; verify. And then, double check. Don't take honest differences of opinion personally. Stay humble. We all make mistakes, and we all have much to learn. Always tell the truth. It will please some people and astonish the rest. I believe Mark Twain is responsible for that last statement. But I'm not completely sure. Is anyone willing to do the research? -- Jerry Griffin, a former seminary teacher, is currently a freelance writer. Recommended Reading: 1. Exegetical Fallacies by D.A. Carson: Baker Book House, 1988. 2. How to Read a Book by Mortimer Adler and Charles Van Doren: Touchstone (Simon & Schuster), 1972, especially the chapters on how to read history and philosophy. 3. Why People Believe Weird Things by Michael Shermer: W.H. Freeman and Company, 1998, especially the 25 fallacies in chapter 3, How Thinking Goes Wrong. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:42:39 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Source for Adell clamps From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" www.vansaircraft.com Their prices always seem pretty reasonable Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Venables Subject: Zenith-List: Source for Adell clamps --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Venables" --> Can't seem to find a source for Adell Clamps. Any suggestions? Roger Venables CH 701 N143TZ , ruddeer and stabilizer finished, busy on elevator ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:45:59 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Source for Adell clamps From: "Lance Gingell" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" Aircraft Spruce has 'em: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/ms21919clamps.php ..lance ________________________________ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Roger Venables Subject: Zenith-List: Source for Adell clamps --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Venables" Can't seem to find a source for Adell Clamps. Any suggestions? Roger Venables CH 701 N143TZ , ruddeer and stabilizer finished, busy on elevator ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:46:34 AM PST US From: Cleone Markwell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: AOA question --> Zenith-List message posted by: Cleone Markwell Jon, The auto industry is governed by capitalism not the FAA. Who else would regulate ultralights by empty weight and no mention of gross weight. Cleone At 11:27 AM 8/14/05, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" > >I appreciate all of this discussion on AOAs - - this has certainly aroused >interest for many of us 'uneducated' on this topic. > >For those that arent familiar with this technology yet, let me tell you >that the most expensive component is an off the shelf gauge that can be >purchased for about $75 from most industrial distributors.... and the >rest of the parts are tubes and a properly constructed dual probe that >attaches to the wing and is adjusted as required. People like Scott and >Ron, Gary, etc have built and installed these and many more attest to >their wonderful usefulness. I want one now! > >But, I wonder.... how can such a relativly simple, inexpensive, reliable >and immensely valuable tool for safe flying escape the attention of >multitudes of existing aircrafts, pilots and instructors? Why arent these >on all of the thousands of 'low end' recreational certified planes.... and >most experimental?? Never seen one on a Cessna 172 or similar... The >gauge that reads the differential pressure looks like something that has >been around longer than most of us have been alive.... no new technology >there... and the for about $100 this system is less expensive than many >other gauges on your panel that have questionable utility. > >I am asking: why hasnt this been on EVERY plane built since the 1950's??? >What am I missing? > >This almost reminds me when I was growing up and autos all had POINT >ignition... and the rage amongst hobbyist was installing electronic, >breakerless, capacitor discharge modules as an aftermarket add on.... and >I of course, cynically thought that IF it was really that good, Detroit >would be installing it on every car (inexpensive, reliable, and great >advantages). I recall it took them about 5 years before they started >making electronic ignition standard.... Is this a corollary with >AOA? The problem, tho is that there is no new technology here, (that I >can see....) > >Someone, please... illuminate me! (no HIDs please!) > >Jon > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:49:43 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: The Research... From: "Beckman, Rick" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick" "Always tell the truth. It will please some people and astonish the rest." Yes, Sir, Mr. Samuel Clemens, aka Mark Twain, said it. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:07:49 PM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First flight of N414PZ --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Congratulations Paul, you've just started an adventure that will last you a long time. Pleased to see that you survived your first encounter. Do fly safe, Larry McFarland - 601HDS do not archive Paul Hartl wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Hartl" > > > > >Hi All, > > What is the old saying, Any landing you walk away from is a good >one? So that's one good landing, and a pretty exciting morning of >being a test pilot. Everything went well, at least from the airplane's >perspective, but the test pilot was a might anxious and didn't exactly >execute every pre-planned action according to the book. > > >In fact, I didn't really plan to takeoff this morning, not at least until >I had completed a couple of land-backs (a.k.a., crow hops). But the >2nd of these maneuvers put the plane a bit high in the air and not in a >perfect land-back position, so I elected to fly instead, and applied full >power. The plane responded beautifully, and flew nicely, with no >balance problems, either fore to aft, nor side to side. So I was airborne >in a well behaved airplane - which was nice, except that the radio >chose this moment to no longer suppress noise (i.e., my squelch >function disappeared). That would have been OK, except that I was >flying from a towered airport, and the 2nd busiest in Idaho, with lots >of high speed aircraft, including numerous corporate jets. The >resulting difficulty in hearing what tower was trying to tell me made >for a fairly flustering experience, and made the whole thing much >less of the exhilarating experience I was hoping for, and instead >yet one more problem-solving affair. > > >As for specs of the flight, I don't have too many, as I was just >a little too distracted by my radio problems. But here is what I have: >outside air temp: 70 degrees F >airport elevation: 5320' >aircraft's empty weight: 695 lb >aircraft type: CH601 HDS >engine: Jabiru 3300A, with new, 2nd-generation cowl and ram-air ducts >airspeed indicator: Dynon with Dynon probe >takeoff weight: 940 lb >takeoff roll: short (less than 1000') >rate of climb: I don't know! Something like the Archer II I rent, perhaps 700 fpm >duration of flight: ~40 minutes >max altitude reached: 8600' (she had lots left to go higher) >stall speed (IAS @ 8600'): about 55 mph >stall characteristics: hardly noticeable, some rumbling (oil canning), and a loss of altitude >landing approach speed: 90 mph IAS >over the fence: about 80 mph >max level flight speed (that I noticed - I wasn't really looking): 119 mph IAS @ 7500' >max oil temp: about 190 degrees F >max cylinder head temp: 298 degrees F >oil pressure: steady around 50 psi > > >Hopefully I'll be a little more cognizant of all of these things on the next flights, >but the upshot is that she flies well, and easily, and that I no longer have >those nagging doubts about whether she will be control-able once airborne. > > >You builders out there, keep it up. 7 years was a long time, but it's pretty amazing >to actually fly in something you built with your own two hands! >N414PZ flies - and beautifully! > > >Paul > > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:31 PM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland But Leo, your plane surely ought to look better with these finishing touches. Speed increases in this series should be inconsequential to a thick wing 601. Larry McFarland do not archive. Leo Corbalis wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" > >Don't bother. I filled the hole with foam and fiberglassed the surface flat. >Net result, not even a 1 knot change in airspeed. The only time you use >significant rudder deflection is when spinning or power on stalls. Rolling >in and out of turns does take a small deflection but only momentarily. I was >disappointed by the result of all my effort. > >Leo Corbalis > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification > > > > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com >> >>Dear Thread Friends, I have been looking at the front of my rudder and >>wondering if the area of the nose that hangs over the fiberglass cover for >>the >>elevator control cable might be a large air catcher. If you look at the >>front of >>the rudder from the nose of the plane with the rudder kicked either left >>or >>right I can see that the area is as large as my hand to my wrist and >>flowing air >>stream to the rear would smack into that pocket. Anybody else notice this? >>I >>might make a plate of .19 and attach it flush to the inside of that lip >>that >>would allow air flow around the nose bottom instead of into it. Anybody >>got any >>thoughts? Frank, what do you think? Best regards, Bill of Georgia >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:23:14 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Baloney detection 101!! ;-) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz this sounds like a lot of BS to me . . . Why it is posted on an airplane list is a question that may never be answered Paul do not archive At 11:35 AM 8/16/2005, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau > >Fellow listers, > >On this list, and elsewhere in life, we all come up against the problem of >filtering through conflicting facts, opinions and statements to try to find >an answer to a problem. Whether it's deciding how many and which tools >you'll really need to build our airplane, to what kind of equipment to >install, to how to fly it, etc. etc. etc... you'll not only come across >differing opinions, but often diametrically opposed opinions, claims and >directives. How do we find the truth in all this? > >I just read an article that contains good advice. It's written about bible >study (see the links), but I've obtained permission to post the salient >points that would apply to most any field of endeavour. > >I hope it may be of help in planning, building and safely flying our >aircraft. > >best >Grant Corriveau >C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100 > > >----------------------- >http://www.ptm.org/O5PT/JulAug/baloney.pdf >http://www.ptm.org/05PT/JulAug/SelectArtcl.htm#BALONEY > >BALONEY DETECTION 101 > by Jerry Griffin > >The Fundamentals >... How can we separate fact from fiction and avoid >swallowing a lot of baloney, ... For starters, here are some basic tools >that should be part of everyone's baloney detection kit. > >1 Examine the methodology. Ask yourself, "How do I know what I know? On what >am I basing my understanding, and how valid is the reasoning?" > >2 Verify the information. Don't rely on assumption, hearsay, conjecture, >wishful thinking, propaganda, fibs or halftruths. Check it out. > >3 Keep learning. Separating fact from fiction requires ongoing study, >research and reading > >... our best protection against misinformation is scholarship the personal >responsibility that each of us has to examine and express information as >accurately as possible.... scholarship is not just for academic >professionals. It's a set of skills we all can use on a daily basis -- >skills, such as, how to think critically and sort through today's >information overload. > >Additional Guidelines > >To flesh out the fundamentals of scholarship in more >detail, here are some additional tools for your baloney-detection toolbox. > >4 Always go to the original sources in any field of study to obtain or >verify information.... The mere fact that a statement, claim or opinion >appears in print doesn't automatically make it true. Follow the principle of >confirming every point by two or three reliable witnesses. > >5 Be careful with generalizations. Avoid extending a particular to the whole >(example: the terrorist in the news was a Muslim, so all Muslims must be >terrorists). Also, avoid applying the whole to a particular (example: most >Arabs are Muslims, so that Arab must be a Muslim). > >6 Avoid the fallacy that fails to recognize distinctions. For example, >someone may argue that because a and b are alike in some respects they are >alike in all respects. Or one may try to argue the reverse: because a and b >are different in some respects they are different in all respects. This >all-or-nothing argument is another form of generalization. > >7 Guard against the selective and prejudicial use of evidence, especially >background material. Selective evidence does not constitute proof. For >example, someone may cite a limited example as proof of his point, while >excluding other examples that contradict his point. > >8 Context is key; always pay attention to it when reading the Bible or any >reference material. Read with the flow of thought in mind. And read with a >critical eye: Who is saying what to whom, and why? What is going on? What >are the underlying factors? What are the issues? What are the basic >assumptions? What is the nature of the authors arguments, and how does he >argue his points? > >9 Avoid purely emotional appeals. Showing emotion or being passionate about >what one believes is certainly appropriate. But using emotional appeals as a >substitute for evidence or logic is not. Emotional appeals often deteriorate >into sarcasm and are a cheap way of dismissing other views without dealing >with their content. > >10 Recognize and avoid a host of other fallacies, such as: > >a. Arguments from silence ... That's a bit like saying that >just because pigs don't have wings doesn't mean they still couldn't fly. > >b. Either-or arguments "Either you believe this, or you're an idiot." Most >likely, those are not the only two options. > >c. Stringing disconnected facts together illogically, arriving at an absurd >conclusion ... > >d. Attacking the person instead of addressing his point "Look who's >talking - a known thespian who was once seen matriculating in public!" > >e. Guilt by association - "He claims to be a conservative, but you can't >believe a word he says because he went to one of those eastern, liberal >schools. Yale, I believe." > >f. Circular reasoning - "If America is a Christian nation, then all >Americans are Christians." > >g. Invalid arguments... The conclusion is invalid because the ... premises >are false. > >Conclusion > >Given human nature, accurate information has always been hard to >come by, and the problem has only intensified in our age of instantaneous >communication. Weapons of mass distortion threaten our ability to separate >fact from fiction as never before. And these weapons are just as destructive >to society as the explosive kind - maybe more so, because they influence how >people think and then behave towards one another. > >...make the following code of ethics your battle plan: > > Always do your best. > Pay attention to detail. > Be impeccable with your facts. > Don't assume; verify. And then, double check. > Don't take honest differences of opinion personally. > Stay humble. We all make mistakes, and we all have much to learn. > Always tell the truth. It will please some people and astonish the rest. I >believe Mark Twain is responsible for that last statement. But I'm not >completely sure. Is anyone willing to do the research? > >-- Jerry Griffin, a former seminary teacher, is currently a freelance >writer. > >Recommended Reading: >1. Exegetical Fallacies by D.A. Carson: Baker Book House, 1988. > >2. How to Read a Book by Mortimer Adler and Charles Van Doren: Touchstone >(Simon & Schuster), 1972, especially the chapters on how to read history and >philosophy. > >3. Why People Believe Weird Things by Michael Shermer: W.H. Freeman and >Company, 1998, especially the 25 fallacies in chapter 3, How Thinking Goes >Wrong. > > --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:51 PM PST US From: ron dewees Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees Yep! Ron JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com > >Ron, you mean like Frank said last week, "lipstick on a pig" ? Bill > > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:04:18 PM PST US From: John Adamson Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Baloney detection 101!! ;-) Received-SPF: none (smtp-relay.tamu.edu: domain of j-adamson@tamu.edu does not designate permitted sender hosts) --> Zenith-List message posted by: John Adamson Paul Mulwitz wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz > >this sounds like a lot of BS to me . . . > >Why it is posted on an airplane list is a question that may never be answered > >Paul > > For me, it was simply a reminder that there's rarely "One True Way" .. whether we're talking religion, computer operating systems, or aircraft lighting. There probably are others. Just my 2 pesos' worth .. John ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:35 PM PST US From: "David Alberti" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: The Research... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Alberti" who heard him? :) do not archive -----Original Message----- "Always tell the truth. It will please some people and astonish the rest." Yes, Sir, Mr. Samuel Clemens, aka Mark Twain, said it. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:31 PM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Very Cool Tail Light (Was: Rotating beacon) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Hello, all In case you are interested, Mark was kind enough to post the "how to" along with a few pictures at http://ch601.org/ (under builder resources) Thanks, Mark! Carlos (do not archive) --- N5SL wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL > > Carlos please share how you made that lense. Very nice! > > Thanks, > > Scott Laughlin > www.cooknwithgas.com Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 11:30:54 PM PST US From: "Bruce Bockius" Subject: RE: [aviation] RE: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bruce Bockius" Chris Heinz was asked about sloping the deck behind the canopy at a seminar this Oshkosh. He said he got into a 601 plane, had some workers temporarily rivet on a piece of metal around the back of the canopy and went for a flight... No significant change in performance. -Bruce/601HD/TDO/Stratus/474 hours **************************** Bruce Bockius Black Forest, CO, USA bruce@WhiteAntelopeSoftware.com http://WhiteAntelopeSoftware.com/zodiac > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 11:30 AM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: [aviation] RE: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > --> > > Not totally surprised, sadly drag reductions make much less > difference on a 100mph airplane than they do on a 200mph craft. > > I'm certain there are gains to be had though...cowling inlet > size, sloping the deck behind the canopy etc. > > Frank > > Do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Leo Corbalis > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" > --> > > Don't bother. I filled the hole with foam and fiberglassed > the surface flat. > Net result, not even a 1 knot change in airspeed. The only > time you use significant rudder deflection is when spinning > or power on stalls. Rolling in and out of turns does take a > small deflection but only momentarily. I was disappointed by > the result of all my effort. > > Leo Corbalis > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com > > > > Dear Thread Friends, I have been looking at the front of my > rudder and > > wondering if the area of the nose that hangs over the > fiberglass cover > for > > the > > elevator control cable might be a large air catcher. If you look at > the > > front of > > the rudder from the nose of the plane with the rudder kicked either > left > > or > > right I can see that the area is as large as my hand to my wrist and > > flowing air > > stream to the rear would smack into that pocket. Anybody else notice > this? > > I > > might make a plate of .19 and attach it flush to the inside of that > lip > > that > > would allow air flow around the nose bottom instead of into it. > Anybody > > got any > > thoughts? Frank, what do you think? Best regards, Bill of Georgia > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 11:56:13 PM PST US Subject: RE: [aviation] RE: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification From: "Lance Gingell" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" He also said that wheel pants (outside of prop slipstream) are the number 1 benefit, followed by wing root fairings, but that these weren't anywhere near as effective as wheel pants.. ..lance/601XL/Jab3300/0 hours/4.3 days w/bruce @ OSH ;-) -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Bockius Subject: RE: [aviation] RE: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bruce Bockius" --> Chris Heinz was asked about sloping the deck behind the canopy at a seminar this Oshkosh. He said he got into a 601 plane, had some workers temporarily rivet on a piece of metal around the back of the canopy and went for a flight... No significant change in performance. -Bruce/601HD/TDO/Stratus/474 hours **************************** Bruce Bockius Black Forest, CO, USA bruce@WhiteAntelopeSoftware.com http://WhiteAntelopeSoftware.com/zodiac > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, > Frank George (Corvallis) > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 11:30 AM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: [aviation] RE: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > --> > > Not totally surprised, sadly drag reductions make much less difference > on a 100mph airplane than they do on a 200mph craft. > > I'm certain there are gains to be had though...cowling inlet size, > sloping the deck behind the canopy etc. > > Frank > > Do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Leo > Corbalis > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" > --> > > Don't bother. I filled the hole with foam and fiberglassed the surface > flat. > Net result, not even a 1 knot change in airspeed. The only time you > use significant rudder deflection is when spinning or power on stalls. > Rolling in and out of turns does take a small deflection but only > momentarily. I was disappointed by the result of all my effort. > > Leo Corbalis > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com > > > > Dear Thread Friends, I have been looking at the front of my > rudder and > > wondering if the area of the nose that hangs over the > fiberglass cover > for > > the > > elevator control cable might be a large air catcher. If you look at > the > > front of > > the rudder from the nose of the plane with the rudder kicked either > left > > or > > right I can see that the area is as large as my hand to my wrist and > > flowing air stream to the rear would smack into that pocket. Anybody > > else notice > this? > > I > > might make a plate of .19 and attach it flush to the inside of that > lip > > that > > would allow air flow around the nose bottom instead of into it. > Anybody > > got any > > thoughts? Frank, what do you think? Best regards, Bill of Georgia > > > > > > > > > > > > >