Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:52 AM - Re: Jabiru Engine Seminar--A brief report 0.12 MISSING_HEADERS Missing To: header (Jeff Davidson)
2. 04:48 AM - Re: First flight of N414PZ (Michel Therrien)
3. 05:47 AM - Re: First flight of N414PZ (Al Young)
4. 06:38 AM - Screw and hardware sources for AOA? (Don Mountain)
5. 07:20 AM - Re: [aviation] Re: 601 Rudder Modification (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
6. 08:19 AM - Crow hops and first flights (Paul Hartl)
7. 09:12 AM - Re: Screw and hardware sources for AOA? (MElrod3732@aol.com)
8. 10:18 AM - Re: 601 Rudder Modification (Leo Corbalis)
9. 10:25 AM - Re: The Research... (Leo Corbalis)
10. 10:31 AM - Re: Screw and hardware sources for AOA? (ruruny@aol.com)
11. 11:31 AM - Re: [aviation] Re: 601 Rudder Modification (Larry McFarland)
12. 11:37 AM - Re: Crow hops and first flights (Gerald A. Applefeld)
13. 11:47 AM - Re: 601 Rudder Modification (Larry McFarland)
14. 12:12 PM - Fiberglass Tip (Bob Miller)
15. 12:13 PM - Fiberglass Tip (Bob Miller)
16. 12:15 PM - (Bob Miller)
17. 12:18 PM - Question---Header Tank Cork (Bob Miller)
18. 12:31 PM - Re: [aviation] Re: 601 Rudder Modification (Gary Gower)
19. 12:57 PM - Re: 601 Rudder Modification (Leo Corbalis)
20. 02:32 PM - Re: Fiberglass Tip (Larry McFarland)
21. 03:04 PM - Re: forward top skin (Larry McFarland)
22. 03:14 PM - Fiberglass tip (George Swinford)
23. 04:12 PM - Re: Fiberglass tip for cowl door (Larry McFarland)
24. 05:12 PM - Another Epoxy Trick. (Paul Mulwitz)
25. 05:19 PM - Re: Fiberglass Tip (Paul Mulwitz)
26. 06:56 PM - 601XL canopy, the frustration continues (Mark Stauffer)
27. 07:06 PM - Re: (Mark Stauffer)
28. 07:12 PM - Re: Re: (Mark Stauffer)
29. 07:23 PM - Re: Crow hops and first flights (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
30. 07:30 PM - Re: [aviation] Re: 601 Rudder Modification (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
31. 11:24 PM - Re: 601XL canopy, the frustration continues (xl)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Jabiru Engine Seminar--A brief report 0.12 MISSING_HEADERS |
Missing To: header
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Davidson" <jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net>
Of the 8 of us attending the August 4-5 Jabiru engine seminar at
JabiruUSA in Shelbyville, Tennessee, 6 of us were Zodiac drivers.
I have to agree with Bob: The installation, maintenance, and operation
seminar was a great learning experience, especially for those of us not as
well versed in all things mechanical. I came away able to explain what
every thing was on the engine, knowing how to make the various installation
connections, able to torque the heads properly, and able to adjust the
valves properly using the Jabiru recommended procedure. All the people
involved were top notch. Pete indicated that the seminar will be held
again. I recommend it for anyone that has questions about installing and
flying a Jabiru engine.
Shelbyville is an hour by car from Nashville, home of the Tennessee Walking
Horse National Celebration (Oshkosh for walking horses), and about 20
minutes from the Jack Daniels distillery. My stay at the Best Western was
very enjoyable. Nice homes are $140K. $200K buys a really nice place with a
good piece of land.
Jeff Davidson
601 HD
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: First flight of N414PZ |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
Congragulations Paul!!
It is always exciting to read such reports.
Michel
do not archive
--- Paul Hartl <paulhartl@cox.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Hartl"
> <paulhartl@cox.net>
>
> <?xml version="1.0" ?>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> What is the old saying, Any landing you walk away
> from is a good
> one? So that's one good landing, and a pretty
> exciting morning of
> being a test pilot. Everything went well, at least
> from the airplane's
> perspective, but the test pilot was a might anxious
> and didn't exactly
> execute every pre-planned action according to the
> book.
>
>
> In fact, I didn't really plan to takeoff this
> morning, not at least until
> I had completed a couple of land-backs (a.k.a., crow
> hops). But the
> 2nd of these maneuvers put the plane a bit high in
> the air and not in a
> perfect land-back position, so I elected to fly
> instead, and applied full
> power. The plane responded beautifully, and flew
> nicely, with no
> balance problems, either fore to aft, nor side to
> side. So I was airborne
> in a well behaved airplane - which was nice, except
> that the radio
> chose this moment to no longer suppress noise (i.e.,
> my squelch
> function disappeared). That would have been OK,
> except that I was
> flying from a towered airport, and the 2nd busiest
> in Idaho, with lots
> of high speed aircraft, including numerous corporate
> jets. The
> resulting difficulty in hearing what tower was
> trying to tell me made
> for a fairly flustering experience, and made the
> whole thing much
> less of the exhilarating experience I was hoping
> for, and instead
> yet one more problem-solving affair.
>
>
> As for specs of the flight, I don't have too many,
> as I was just
> a little too distracted by my radio problems. But
> here is what I have:
> outside air temp: 70 degrees F
> airport elevation: 5320'
> aircraft's empty weight: 695 lb
> aircraft type: CH601 HDS
> engine: Jabiru 3300A, with new, 2nd-generation cowl
> and ram-air ducts
> airspeed indicator: Dynon with Dynon probe
> takeoff weight: 940 lb
> takeoff roll: short (less than 1000')
> rate of climb: I don't know! Something like the
> Archer II I rent, perhaps 700 fpm
> duration of flight: ~40 minutes
> max altitude reached: 8600' (she had lots left to go
> higher)
> stall speed (IAS @ 8600'): about 55 mph
> stall characteristics: hardly noticeable, some
> rumbling (oil canning), and a loss of altitude
> landing approach speed: 90 mph IAS
> over the fence: about 80 mph
> max level flight speed (that I noticed - I wasn't
> really looking): 119 mph IAS @ 7500'
> max oil temp: about 190 degrees F
> max cylinder head temp: 298 degrees F
> oil pressure: steady around 50 psi
>
>
> Hopefully I'll be a little more cognizant of all of
> these things on the next flights,
> but the upshot is that she flies well, and easily,
> and that I no longer have
> those nagging doubts about whether she will be
> control-able once airborne.
>
>
> You builders out there, keep it up. 7 years was a
> long time, but it's pretty amazing
> to actually fly in something you built with your own
> two hands!
> N414PZ flies - and beautifully!
>
>
> Paul
>
>
> --
> Paul Hartl, N414PZ, 601HDS/Jabiru 3300A
> My Flight Simulator 2002/4 Zodiac Website:
> http//members.cox.net/paulhartl
> SunValley, Idaho 83340 208-788-9147
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: First flight of N414PZ |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" <armyret@one-eleven.net>
Paul- Great job! Congratulations. I know the feeling so I just read your
post and grinned from ear to ear. Safe flying!!
Al Young
601XL-
Re building
Message 4
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| Subject: | Screw and hardware sources for AOA? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
After much discussion on here about the Angle of
Attack Pitot tubes, I bought one of Dynon Avionics
unheated AOA Pitots for my 601 XL. I also bought
their recommended mounting bracket from GretzAero
model AN5812. The question I have is actualling
mounting the Pitot tube to the mounting bracket.
There are 4 holes through the shell of the mounting
bracket that evidently need to be drilled and tapped
into the aluminum pitot tube casting. And the
instructions recommend #6-32 screws. I can clamp the
unit up in the drill press and drill and tap the
holes. My question is, what type of screws fit best
in this location? It seems that a pan-head screw will
be out in the streamline, but I am not sure a
flat-head will fit all the way flush in the hole of
the GretzAero bracket, which is chromed and I don't
want to destroy it. Where is a good place to buy this
type of screws for airplanes? And what type have you
guys used here?
Don
601 XL, tail and most of the wings done
Message 5
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| Subject: | 601 Rudder Modification |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Yeah I noticed at least 2mph improvement with the wheelpants....:)
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance
Gingell
Subject: RE: [aviation] RE: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell"
--> <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
He also said that wheel pants (outside of prop slipstream) are the
number 1 benefit, followed by wing root fairings, but that these weren't
anywhere near as effective as wheel pants..
..lance/601XL/Jab3300/0 hours/4.3 days w/bruce @ OSH ;-)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Bockius
Subject: RE: [aviation] RE: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bruce Bockius"
--> <bruce@whiteantelopesoftware.com>
Chris Heinz was asked about sloping the deck behind the canopy at a
seminar this Oshkosh. He said he got into a 601 plane, had some workers
temporarily rivet on a piece of metal around the back of the canopy and
went for a flight... No significant change in performance.
-Bruce/601HD/TDO/Stratus/474 hours
****************************
Bruce Bockius
Black Forest, CO, USA
bruce@WhiteAntelopeSoftware.com
http://WhiteAntelopeSoftware.com/zodiac
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde,
> Frank George (Corvallis)
> Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 11:30 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: [aviation] RE: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> --> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Not totally surprised, sadly drag reductions make much less difference
> on a 100mph airplane than they do on a 200mph craft.
>
> I'm certain there are gains to be had though...cowling inlet size,
> sloping the deck behind the canopy etc.
>
> Frank
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Leo
> Corbalis
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis"
> --> <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Don't bother. I filled the hole with foam and fiberglassed the surface
> flat.
> Net result, not even a 1 knot change in airspeed. The only time you
> use significant rudder deflection is when spinning or power on stalls.
> Rolling in and out of turns does take a small deflection but only
> momentarily. I was disappointed by the result of all my effort.
>
> Leo Corbalis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <JAPhillipsGA@aol.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
> >
> > Dear Thread Friends, I have been looking at the front of my
> rudder and
> > wondering if the area of the nose that hangs over the
> fiberglass cover
> for
> > the
> > elevator control cable might be a large air catcher. If you look at
> the
> > front of
> > the rudder from the nose of the plane with the rudder kicked either
> left
> > or
> > right I can see that the area is as large as my hand to my wrist and
> > flowing air stream to the rear would smack into that pocket. Anybody
> > else notice
> this?
> > I
> > might make a plate of .19 and attach it flush to the inside of that
> lip
> > that
> > would allow air flow around the nose bottom instead of into it.
> Anybody
> > got any
> > thoughts? Frank, what do you think? Best regards, Bill of Georgia
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Crow hops and first flights |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Hartl" <paulhartl@cox.net>
Hi All,
Thanks for the many notes of congratulations - it's nice to hear from so many
on the list - and it puts the pressure on to move on to Act Two!
My two cents on "land-backs", or "crow-hops":
I'm only a lowly 100-hour pilot, with about half in a 172 and half in an Archer
II
(similar to a Cherokee 180), and my (very limited) experience is that a crow hop
is a maneuver that requires some practice. I practiced landing the Archer
flaps up, which was beneficial, but I didn't practice crow hops, and I
should have. (I also had the benefit of doing some flying in Joe Edwards XL
and Tim Egan's HD).
In retrospect, I think crow hops are a slightly more advanced maneuver that
should be practiced ahead of time, in type, if at all possible. You are doing
something that requires a good sense of timing and feel for the airplane - which
is still a bit of an unknown - and all of it is at 75 mph and very close to the
ground.
I think it may be a good idea to know how your airplane will handle when you
can't fall very far, but you do have a lot of speed and without excellent control,
you could hurt it there, too. In contrast, a takeoff is simple and something you
have
lots of practice at.
So, in my humble opinion, and based on very limited (but recent) experience, I'd
highly recommend that if you do choose to test your aircraft's flying qualities
near to the ground with crow hops, that you practice ahead, preferably with
a CFI sitting next to you, and if at all possible, in type.
Just my two cents .....
Paul
--
Paul Hartl, N414PZ, 601HDS/Jabiru 3300A
Flight Simulator 2002/4 Zodiac Website: www.members.cox.net/paulhartl
Sun Valley, Idaho 83340 208-788-9147
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Screw and hardware sources for AOA? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: MElrod3732@aol.com
Hi Don: I bought 4 # 6 round head, allen-head chrome bolts from True Value
hardware that worked (and looked) great. I then drilled holes and used a tap
to make the threads.
Hope this helps,
Mike Elrod
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Rudder Modification |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
It's practically invisible with the glass fairing in front of the hole. I
can guarantee you a substantial overall improvement in performance if you
install a constant speed prop or a cheaper in-flight adjustable prop like my
Woodcomp Varia.
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> But Leo, your plane surely ought to look better with these finishing
> touches. Speed increases
> in this series should be inconsequential to a thick wing 601.
> Larry McFarland
> do not archive.
>
> Leo Corbalis wrote:
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis"
>><leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>>Don't bother. I filled the hole with foam and fiberglassed the surface
>>flat.
>>Net result, not even a 1 knot change in airspeed. The only time you use
>>significant rudder deflection is when spinning or power on stalls. Rolling
>>in and out of turns does take a small deflection but only momentarily. I
>>was
>>disappointed by the result of all my effort.
>>
>>Leo Corbalis
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: <JAPhillipsGA@aol.com>
>>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
>>>
>>>Dear Thread Friends, I have been looking at the front of my rudder and
>>>wondering if the area of the nose that hangs over the fiberglass cover
>>>for
>>>the
>>>elevator control cable might be a large air catcher. If you look at the
>>>front of
>>>the rudder from the nose of the plane with the rudder kicked either left
>>>or
>>>right I can see that the area is as large as my hand to my wrist and
>>>flowing air
>>>stream to the rear would smack into that pocket. Anybody else notice
>>>this?
>>>I
>>>might make a plate of .19 and attach it flush to the inside of that lip
>>>that
>>>would allow air flow around the nose bottom instead of into it. Anybody
>>>got any
>>>thoughts? Frank, what do you think? Best regards, Bill of Georgia
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: The Research... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
Didn't St. Paul say it better ?
Leo Corbalis
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Alberti" <daberti@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: The Research...
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Alberti" <daberti@sbcglobal.net>
>
> who heard him? :)
>
>
> do not archive
> -----Original Message-----
>
> "Always tell the truth. It will please some people and astonish the rest."
>
> Yes, Sir, Mr. Samuel Clemens, aka Mark Twain,
> said
> it.
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Screw and hardware sources for AOA? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ruruny@aol.com
Look here, I bought nutplates and different types of screws for a variety of things.
Very nice people to
do business with.
http://www.ddaircraft.com/
Brian
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Rudder Modification |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Frank,
I had ZAC wheel pants and things seemed slippery, but after making my
own pants with a narrower
elliptic at the nose, I gained 6 mph at mid range and 3 mph top end.
Nose ends of the ZAC pants
are rounded like a ball and much wider. Oddly, the slippery rudder and
elevator feelings are gone.
Larry McFarland at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>Yeah I noticed at least 2mph improvement with the wheelpants....:)
>
>Frank
>
>Do not archive
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance
>Gingell
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: [aviation] RE: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell"
>--> <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
>
>He also said that wheel pants (outside of prop slipstream) are the
>number 1 benefit, followed by wing root fairings, but that these weren't
>anywhere near as effective as wheel pants..
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Crow hops and first flights |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gerald A. Applefeld" <jerryvmd@blazenet.net>
Let me add my two cents worth. I finish my HD with a SOOB EA81 (not one of the
commercial
providers) in 2003. The engine ran well on the ground and in taxi tests. I too
was a low
time pilot (about 120 hours over 30 years). I had never flown in a zodiac before
testing
my own. I did get some time in a Diamond but glass is different than aluminum.
I did crow
hops on a 5000 ft runway. Starting with 2 or 3 feet cut the power and flair.
I got to
where I could take-off and land several times safely in 5000 ft. I progressively
got
higher so that I was up to about 50 ft before cutting power and could get out of
ground
effect and really feel the flair.
On my first REAL flight I felt I knew the plane well. Good thing as the engine
lost all
oil pressure and temp spiked to over 300 deg, with oil leaking from under the cowl
onto the
canopy. The engine kept running to get me downwind, base and final. The landing
was a
greaser and I had no fear of stall since I had already practiced so many times.
The pucker
factor was just for the engine running not how to land.
So I'm all for crow hops for anyone flying for the first time. Know your plane
well close
to the ground before you go higher.
Jerry
Paul Hartl wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Hartl" <paulhartl@cox.net>
>
> My two cents on "land-backs", or "crow-hops":
> In retrospect, I think crow hops are a slightly more advanced maneuver that
> should be practiced ahead of time, in type, if at all possible.
> In contrast, a takeoff is simple and something you he, tooave
> lots of practice at.
> So, in my humble opinion, and based on very limited (but recent) experience,
I'd
> highly recommend that if you do choose to test your aircraft's flying qualities
> near to the ground with crow hops, that you practice ahead, preferably with
> a CFI sitting next to you, and if at all possible, in type.
>
> Just my two cents .....
>
> Paul
> --
> Paul Hartl, N414PZ, 601HDS/Jabiru 3300A
> Flight Simulator 2002/4 Zodiac Website: www.members.cox.net/paulhartl
> Sun Valley, Idaho 83340 208-788-9147
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Rudder Modification |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Leo,
I'd like very much to be using an in-flight adjustable prop, but the
Stratus doesn't
appear to accept the manufactured ones, unless I build one myself.
Larry
do not archive
Leo Corbalis wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
>
>It's practically invisible with the glass fairing in front of the hole. I
>can guarantee you a substantial overall improvement in performance if you
>install a constant speed prop or a cheaper in-flight adjustable prop like my
>Woodcomp Varia.
>
>Leo
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification
>
>
>
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
>>
>>But Leo, your plane surely ought to look better with these finishing
>>touches. Speed increases
>>in this series should be inconsequential to a thick wing 601.
>>Larry McFarland
>>do not archive.
>>
>>Leo Corbalis wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis"
>>><leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
>>>
>>>Don't bother. I filled the hole with foam and fiberglassed the surface
>>>flat.
>>>Net result, not even a 1 knot change in airspeed. The only time you use
>>>significant rudder deflection is when spinning or power on stalls. Rolling
>>>in and out of turns does take a small deflection but only momentarily. I
>>>was
>>>disappointed by the result of all my effort.
>>>
>>>Leo Corbalis
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: <JAPhillipsGA@aol.com>
>>>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>>>Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
>>>>
>>>>Dear Thread Friends, I have been looking at the front of my rudder and
>>>>wondering if the area of the nose that hangs over the fiberglass cover
>>>>for
>>>>the
>>>>elevator control cable might be a large air catcher. If you look at the
>>>>front of
>>>>the rudder from the nose of the plane with the rudder kicked either left
>>>>or
>>>>right I can see that the area is as large as my hand to my wrist and
>>>>flowing air
>>>>stream to the rear would smack into that pocket. Anybody else notice
>>>>this?
>>>>I
>>>>might make a plate of .19 and attach it flush to the inside of that lip
>>>>that
>>>>would allow air flow around the nose bottom instead of into it. Anybody
>>>>got any
>>>>thoughts? Frank, what do you think? Best regards, Bill of Georgia
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bob Miller <tutuzulu@gmail.com>
Nick Otterback, the test pilot for JabiruUSA, is also an expert at,
among other things, fiberglassing. He showed me a technique that
might be helpful to others.
Before applying the epoxy, lay the fiberglass out on top of a sheet of
clear plastic. Apply a little epoxy to each layer of fiberglass, then
lay another sheet of clear plastic over the top. Use the finer glass
for the exterior piece. Spread the epoxy on the fiberglass by
squeegeeing from on top of the plastic. You want to have the least
amount of epoxy on the glass that will wet the whole glass. The rest
you squeegee out between the sheets of the plastic, keeping your
hands, worksurface and squeegee tool clean.
Then you apply the plastic enclosed fiberglass to your mold, so that
when it's dry the fiberglass surfaces will be smooth enough to require
very little sanding. No releasing agent is needed on the plastic,
most of it will pull off when the fiberglass is dry, the rest will
easily sand off.
--
Bob Miller
601HD N722Z
Charlottesville, Virginia
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bob Miller <tutuzulu@gmail.com>
Nick Otterback, the test pilot for JabiruUSA, is also an expert at,
among other things, fiberglassing. He showed me a technique that
might be helpful to others.
Before applying the epoxy, lay the fiberglass out on top of a sheet of
clear plastic. Apply a little epoxy to each layer of fiberglass, then
lay another sheet of clear plastic over the top. Use the finer weave
glass for the exterior piece. Spread the epoxy on the fiberglass by
squeegeeing on top of the plastic. You want to have the least amount
of epoxy on the glass that will wet the whole glass. The rest you
squeegee out between the sheets of the plastic, keeping your hands,
worksurface and squeegee tool clean.
Then you apply the plastic enclosed fiberglass to your mold, so that
when it's dry the fiberglass surfaces will be smooth enough to require
very little sanding. No releasing agent is needed on the plastic,
most of it will pull off easily when the fiberglass is dry, the rest
will easily sand off.
--
Bob Miller
601HD N722Z
Charlottesville, Virginia
Message 16
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bob Miller <tutuzulu@gmail.com>
I'm having a very difficult time fitting the flashing at the forward
end of the canopy arms on the forward tilting canopy. If anybody has
photos of how the Forward Top Skin 6F16-4 and the canopy Side Cover
6C3-6 actually fit together, I'd greatly appreciate seeing them. It
looks like this area would be a major entryway for water (as well as
really ugly) if not done properly.
Many thanks,
Bob Miller
601HD N722Z
Charlottesville, Virginia
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Question---Header Tank Cork |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bob Miller <tutuzulu@gmail.com>
As cork tends to dry out over time, some have suggested alternative
padding for the header fuel tank. I've considered using one-eighth
inch thick silicone rubber sheeting, but am concerned re the binding
and rubbing. There's a type of cork sheeting that seems to have bits
of rubber impregnated in it , and perhaps that might be better.
Felt is has for years been traditionally used for this purpose, as it
is durable and allows for some movement of the tank against it so that
it does not bind to and rub the aluminum as rubber and even cork might
do.
What have other people had luck with?
Many Gracias,
--
Bob Miller
601HD N722Z
Charlottesville, Virginia
Message 18
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| Subject: | 601 Rudder Modification |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
I think that the ZAC airplanes are not in the racing area, but "cleaning" the
airplane as much as possible will give us less power with same speed that = more
time in the air, maybe 15 minutes of gasoline will be gold in a busy airport...
Just thinking.
Saludos
Gary Gower
"Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
Yeah I noticed at least 2mph improvement with the wheelpants....:)
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance
Gingell
Subject: RE: [aviation] RE: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell"
-->
He also said that wheel pants (outside of prop slipstream) are the
number 1 benefit, followed by wing root fairings, but that these weren't
anywhere near as effective as wheel pants..
..lance/601XL/Jab3300/0 hours/4.3 days w/bruce @ OSH ;-)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Bockius
Subject: RE: [aviation] RE: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bruce Bockius"
-->
Chris Heinz was asked about sloping the deck behind the canopy at a
seminar this Oshkosh. He said he got into a 601 plane, had some workers
temporarily rivet on a piece of metal around the back of the canopy and
went for a flight... No significant change in performance.
-Bruce/601HD/TDO/Stratus/474 hours
****************************
Bruce Bockius
Black Forest, CO, USA
bruce@WhiteAntelopeSoftware.com
http://WhiteAntelopeSoftware.com/zodiac
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde,
> Frank George (Corvallis)
> Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 11:30 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: [aviation] RE: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> -->
>
> Not totally surprised, sadly drag reductions make much less difference
> on a 100mph airplane than they do on a 200mph craft.
>
> I'm certain there are gains to be had though...cowling inlet size,
> sloping the deck behind the canopy etc.
>
> Frank
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Leo
> Corbalis
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis"
> -->
>
> Don't bother. I filled the hole with foam and fiberglassed the surface
> flat.
> Net result, not even a 1 knot change in airspeed. The only time you
> use significant rudder deflection is when spinning or power on stalls.
> Rolling in and out of turns does take a small deflection but only
> momentarily. I was disappointed by the result of all my effort.
>
> Leo Corbalis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To:
> Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
> >
> > Dear Thread Friends, I have been looking at the front of my
> rudder and
> > wondering if the area of the nose that hangs over the
> fiberglass cover
> for
> > the
> > elevator control cable might be a large air catcher. If you look at
> the
> > front of
> > the rudder from the nose of the plane with the rudder kicked either
> left
> > or
> > right I can see that the area is as large as my hand to my wrist and
> > flowing air stream to the rear would smack into that pocket. Anybody
> > else notice
> this?
> > I
> > might make a plate of .19 and attach it flush to the inside of that
> lip
> > that
> > would allow air flow around the nose bottom instead of into it.
> Anybody
> > got any
> > thoughts? Frank, what do you think? Best regards, Bill of Georgia
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
---------------------------------
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Rudder Modification |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
You will have to look around. The woodcomp Varia is made for the Rotax 912-4
using the hollow prop shaft. There are others that use an electric motor in
the hub and slip rings around the prop drive flange.
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> Leo,
> I'd like very much to be using an in-flight adjustable prop, but the
> Stratus doesn't
> appear to accept the manufactured ones, unless I build one myself.
>
> Larry
> do not archive
>
> Leo Corbalis wrote:
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis"
>><leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>>It's practically invisible with the glass fairing in front of the hole. I
>>can guarantee you a substantial overall improvement in performance if you
>>install a constant speed prop or a cheaper in-flight adjustable prop like
>>my
>>Woodcomp Varia.
>>
>>Leo
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
>>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
>>>
>>>But Leo, your plane surely ought to look better with these finishing
>>>touches. Speed increases
>>>in this series should be inconsequential to a thick wing 601.
>>>Larry McFarland
>>>do not archive.
>>>
>>>Leo Corbalis wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis"
>>>><leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
>>>>
>>>>Don't bother. I filled the hole with foam and fiberglassed the surface
>>>>flat.
>>>>Net result, not even a 1 knot change in airspeed. The only time you use
>>>>significant rudder deflection is when spinning or power on stalls.
>>>>Rolling
>>>>in and out of turns does take a small deflection but only momentarily. I
>>>>was
>>>>disappointed by the result of all my effort.
>>>>
>>>>Leo Corbalis
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: <JAPhillipsGA@aol.com>
>>>>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>>>>Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Modification
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
>>>>>
>>>>>Dear Thread Friends, I have been looking at the front of my rudder and
>>>>>wondering if the area of the nose that hangs over the fiberglass cover
>>>>>for
>>>>>the
>>>>>elevator control cable might be a large air catcher. If you look at the
>>>>>front of
>>>>>the rudder from the nose of the plane with the rudder kicked either
>>>>>left
>>>>>or
>>>>>right I can see that the area is as large as my hand to my wrist and
>>>>>flowing air
>>>>>stream to the rear would smack into that pocket. Anybody else notice
>>>>>this?
>>>>>I
>>>>>might make a plate of .19 and attach it flush to the inside of that lip
>>>>>that
>>>>>would allow air flow around the nose bottom instead of into it. Anybody
>>>>>got any
>>>>>thoughts? Frank, what do you think? Best regards, Bill of Georgia
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Tip |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Bob,
Would this process work with polyester resin based fiberglassing?
This is truly a great idea if it would work. I don't work in epoxy
but have been looking for a better way to extricate product from the
mold, which is sometimes difficult.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Bob Miller wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bob Miller <tutuzulu@gmail.com>
>
>Nick Otterback, the test pilot for JabiruUSA, is also an expert at,
>among other things, fiberglassing. He showed me a technique that
>might be helpful to others.
>
>Before applying the epoxy, lay the fiberglass out on top of a sheet of
>clear plastic. Apply a little epoxy to each layer of fiberglass, then
>lay another sheet of clear plastic over the top. Use the finer glass
>for the exterior piece. Spread the epoxy on the fiberglass by
>squeegeeing from on top of the plastic. You want to have the least
>amount of epoxy on the glass that will wet the whole glass. The rest
>you squeegee out between the sheets of the plastic, keeping your
>hands, worksurface and squeegee tool clean.
>
>Then you apply the plastic enclosed fiberglass to your mold, so that
>when it's dry the fiberglass surfaces will be smooth enough to require
>very little sanding. No releasing agent is needed on the plastic,
>most of it will pull off when the fiberglass is dry, the rest will
>easily sand off.
>
>
>
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: forward top skin |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Bob,
I carried the forward top skin development a bit further by making it
removable. This has
provided the ability to remove the entire forward top skin within 25
minutes, work behind the
panel and gages, etc and put it back together within another 30
minutes. It's been off probably 10
times in the course of the last year. And you don't need to use plate
nuts. U-nuts and J-nuts are excellent
and cost about $9.per 100. You use about 50 of one and 30 of the other
and an electric Phillips screwdriver.
Pictures that detail the assembly and components going together
progressively are on the Canopy page of
my site. Check out the linked pictures below. Perhaps you'll get an
idea of what was done. It's not difficult.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/uclips.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/railcoverside.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/electrical/full/electricaccess2.gif
The last picture shows a piece of aluminum placed between the rubber
trim on the canopy arm and the forward top skin.
You remove 5 screws each side that would be behind the arm with the
canopy up before lifting, so you insert these two pieces to avoid
scuffing the rubber on the skin. Then you lift the canopy and remove the
rest of the 6-32 screws, remove your gas filler cap if you have one and
remove the skin. You then put the gas filler back on.
The forward-side pieces become a separate piece from the top skin.
This has saved an enormous amount of time since beginning flight, having
to replace gages and revise a couple of switches and trouble shoot wiring.
If you need any additional information, just ask.
Best regards,
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Bob Miller wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bob Miller <tutuzulu@gmail.com>
>
>I'm having a very difficult time fitting the flashing at the forward
>end of the canopy arms on the forward tilting canopy. If anybody has
>photos of how the Forward Top Skin 6F16-4 and the canopy Side Cover
>6C3-6 actually fit together, I'd greatly appreciate seeing them. It
>looks like this area would be a major entryway for water (as well as
>really ugly) if not done properly.
>
>Many thanks,
>
>Bob Miller
>601HD N722Z
>Charlottesville, Virginia
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
Bob Miller's tip sounds like the ideal way to lay up an oil access door right on
the upper cowl of a Subaru-powered Zodiac, thus getting a perfect match for
contour. Has anyone already tried it?
George
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass tip for cowl door |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
George,
I did put an oil access door in the top of the cowling, but used the
original piece removed as the door.
It was cut using a jigsaw blade in an Exacto blade handle. This cuts a
very very thin line.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/cowling/full/cowloilaccessopen2.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/cowling/full/cowlaccessbaseplate2.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/cowling/full/cowlsideaccess.gif
Not terribly difficult, but a back plate shown on the middle link above
makes the door and
the hole an assembly that stays put without warp, etc., 2 Dzus fasteners
and a hinge. A4s sunk in
the glass using a microstop countersink.
I remade the oil filler tube to move over to the other side where the
dipstick is located.
Then you check and add oil from the same place.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS w/Stratus Subaru Ram Performance Heads
George Swinford wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
>
>Bob Miller's tip sounds like the ideal way to lay up an oil access door right
on the upper cowl of a Subaru-powered Zodiac, thus getting a perfect match for
contour. Has anyone already tried it?
>
>George
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Another Epoxy Trick. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
A related epoxy trick - for use when gluing pieces of stuff together.
Apply masking tape over the edge of the joint being glued after the
glue has been clamped in place. (Sometimes, you can actually use the
masking tape as the clamping device too.) This stops the flow of
liquid glue even with the edge of the pieces and leaves a nice
finish. The masking tape comes right off when the glue has set.
Paul
XL barely started
At 12:09 PM 8/17/2005, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bob Miller <tutuzulu@gmail.com>
>
>Nick Otterback, the test pilot for JabiruUSA, is also an expert at,
>among other things, fiberglassing. He showed me a technique that
>might be helpful to others.
>
>Before applying the epoxy, lay the fiberglass out on top of a sheet of
>clear plastic. Apply a little epoxy to each layer of fiberglass, then
>lay another sheet of clear plastic over the top. Use the finer glass
>for the exterior piece. Spread the epoxy on the fiberglass by
>squeegeeing from on top of the plastic. You want to have the least
>amount of epoxy on the glass that will wet the whole glass. The rest
>you squeegee out between the sheets of the plastic, keeping your
>hands, worksurface and squeegee tool clean.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Tip |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
According to my recent reading from "Fiberglass & Composite
Materials" by Forbes Aird .. .
Polyester resin and Epoxy resin have a lot in common but also some
big differences. Polyester is less expensive and generally sets a
lot faster. Pot times are usually only a few minutes. It also
shrinks over time leaving a visible imprint of the internal glass
fibers on the finished piece. The shrinking is most noticeable when
the fiberglass piece is installed and finished within a few months of
being made.
Epoxy doesn't shrink. Working time with epoxy can be anything from a
few minutes to a few days depending on the mixture of resin and
hardener. I think this is important for those of us who are not
regular users of this technology. It allows us to use long pot times
to make up for our missteps. The parts may take overnight or longer
to set, but that is not a problem for me - I am not building my plane
on a schedule.
I don't think this would have much impact on removal from the
mold. If there are undercuts or places where there is no relief in
the mold then removing the piece will be nearly impossible no matter
what materials or techniques are used. I guess if the materials used
require parting compound and none is used then the plastic sheets
would serve that purpose.
Paul
XL barely started
Bob,
>Would this process work with polyester resin based fiberglassing?
>This is truly a great idea if it would work. I don't work in epoxy
>but have been looking for a better way to extricate product from the
>mold, which is sometimes difficult.
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | 601XL canopy, the frustration continues |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" <mark.stauffer@cablespeed.com>
Fellow 601XL builders,
Have you experienced the following: 1) rear of canopy wants to bow outboard
so much so that you will have to pull in the sides (3/4" each side) and then
push them down to latch? 2) the inside flashing rubs against the panel side
enough to leave marks on the inside flashing?
If this has happened to you, how in the world did you fix it? I'm at my wits
end! Did you just accept the flaw and move on? Is it really important as
long as I can latch it? What will happen in the cold when I'm having to pull
in each side to latch it? Will the canopy start to crack?
The problem got worse with the inside flashing rubbing against the panel
sides. That's what's pushing the rest of the frame outward.
Does anyone have interior and exterior pictures both in the down position
and open position? I'd like to see how you made the transitions between
interior/exterior flashings, side panels, etc.
Sorry this is so disjointed. I'm so frustrated I can't see straight. I've
spent 70 hours so far on this canopy and this problem along with the almost
complete lack of guidance on the part of the builders manual has just got me
frazzled. All the holes drilled out nicely, no cracks, and the canopy itself
fits nicely but I can't seem to get this latch and frame combination to work
correctly.
Please help before I put the damn thing up for sale on E-bay!! ;-)
P.S. I picked up my Jabiru 3300 today from the freight company. At least
that was a small bright spot today!
Mark Stauffer
Odenton, MD
Frustrated 601XL builder
Wings finished, tail finished, fuselage mostly finished. Waiting on FWF kit.
Message 27
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" <mark.stauffer@cablespeed.com>
Bob, Here are some pictures I took for you. Don't take my way as the right
way since I'm having so many problems that I can't see straight. This is the
way that the new plans/builders guide shows, at least the best I could
interpret it.
Hope it helps a bit.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Miller
Subject:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bob Miller <tutuzulu@gmail.com>
I'm having a very difficult time fitting the flashing at the forward
end of the canopy arms on the forward tilting canopy. If anybody has
photos of how the Forward Top Skin 6F16-4 and the canopy Side Cover
6C3-6 actually fit together, I'd greatly appreciate seeing them. It
looks like this area would be a major entryway for water (as well as
really ugly) if not done properly.
Many thanks,
Bob Miller
601HD N722Z
Charlottesville, Virginia
Message 28
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" <mark.stauffer@cablespeed.com>
To the list,
My apologies, I hit "reply" instead of getting Bob's address.
It's not my week! ;-)
Mark
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mark
Stauffer
Subject: Zenith-List: RE:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer"
<mark.stauffer@cablespeed.com>
Bob, Here are some pictures I took for you. Don't take my way as the right
way since I'm having so many problems that I can't see straight. This is the
way that the new plans/builders guide shows, at least the best I could
interpret it.
Hope it helps a bit.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Miller
Subject:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bob Miller <tutuzulu@gmail.com>
I'm having a very difficult time fitting the flashing at the forward
end of the canopy arms on the forward tilting canopy. If anybody has
photos of how the Forward Top Skin 6F16-4 and the canopy Side Cover
6C3-6 actually fit together, I'd greatly appreciate seeing them. It
looks like this area would be a major entryway for water (as well as
really ugly) if not done properly.
Many thanks,
Bob Miller
601HD N722Z
Charlottesville, Virginia
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Crow hops and first flights |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Paul, I agree. I had planed to do the same thing, but my XL jumped into the
air before I got throttle 3/4 in and was at 100 feet while was still trying to
say hop. So I just pushed it on in and zipped to 3K and thought "screw the
crow hops" I would have probably smacked a tree doing something I never tried
before in a plane I had never landed before, Good going, Bill
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Rudder Modification |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Great point Sal, especially with $4.00 a gallon gas. Bill
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL canopy, the frustration continues |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: xl <xl@prosody.org>
Hey Mark,
I have to pull the passenger side in about 1 inch.
Both sides need a good squeeze to latch.
And the inside flashing rubs on the top skin - the paint's gone.
Oh yeah, the rubber trim on the front could look better.
Looks like I didn't build a show plane.
But it works. The canopy has held up so far.
Joe Edwards
N633Z @ BFI
243 hours
CH601XL, Jabiru 3300, Sensenich 64x49 wood prop
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Mark Stauffer wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" <mark.stauffer@cablespeed.com>
>
> Fellow 601XL builders,
>
> Have you experienced the following: 1) rear of canopy wants to bow outboard
> so much so that you will have to pull in the sides (3/4" each side) and then
> push them down to latch? 2) the inside flashing rubs against the panel side
> enough to leave marks on the inside flashing?
> ...........snip .......snip
> Mark Stauffer
> Odenton, MD
> Frustrated 601XL builder
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