---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 08/21/05: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:47 AM - Zenith open house ... question (baileys) 2. 06:58 AM - Re: Zenith open house ... question (Graham Kirby) 3. 07:43 AM - 701 gear /strut assy. 7F17-1SP (Rick R) 4. 08:36 AM - Tornado Damage (Todd Osborne) 5. 08:38 AM - Re: CH701 Alternator output () 6. 10:25 AM - Lighting,etc. (William J. Naumuk) 7. 10:58 AM - Re: 701 gear /strut assy. 7F17-1SP (NYTerminat@aol.com) 8. 11:03 AM - Re: Lighting,etc. (Larry McFarland) 9. 11:40 AM - Re: Lighting,etc. (Robert Schoenberger) 10. 01:11 PM - Re: Lighting,etc. (David Alberti) 11. 04:20 PM - Re: Lighting,etc. (William J. Naumuk) 12. 04:34 PM - Re: Lighting,etc. (William J. Naumuk) 13. 04:50 PM - Re: Lighting,etc. (William J. Naumuk) 14. 05:33 PM - Cutting the HD canopy (Bill Steer) 15. 06:00 PM - Re: Lighting,etc. (Larry McFarland) 16. 06:26 PM - Lights update (William J. Naumuk) 17. 06:28 PM - Re: Lighting,etc. (William J. Naumuk) 18. 07:19 PM - 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 19. 10:27 PM - 601XL Parts for Sale (Jorge Prieto) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:17 AM PST US From: "baileys" Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith open house ... question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "baileys" Hello. Yesterday at the Zenith open house I was watching front landing forks being formed. The demonstrator used a plastic film which he called "No-Mar." It is sandwiched with the metal being formed and prevents the brake from maring the metal. He said the stuff was great and a piece of it lasted a long time. Does anyone know what this stuff is and where it can be obtained? Thanks, Bob Bailey ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:05 AM PST US From: "Graham Kirby" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zenith open house ... question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Graham Kirby" The manufacturers web site is: http://www.polyprod.com/nomarfilm.html. Graham Kirby 601HD -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of baileys Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith open house ... question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "baileys" Hello. Yesterday at the Zenith open house I was watching front landing forks being formed. The demonstrator used a plastic film which he called "No-Mar." It is sandwiched with the metal being formed and prevents the brake from maring the metal. He said the stuff was great and a piece of it lasted a long time. Does anyone know what this stuff is and where it can be obtained? Thanks, Bob Bailey ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:30 AM PST US From: Rick R Subject: Zenith-List: 701 gear /strut assy. 7F17-1SP --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick R Have I lost it?? (maybe never had it) Drawing 7-F-17. I need to drill some bolt and rivet holes in the strut assy. but I cannot find the hole location specs....?? Pardon if this is in the archives, heading there now. DO not archive. Rick Orlando, FL. USA http://www.geocities.com/n701rr/index.html --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:03 AM PST US From: Todd Osborne Subject: Zenith-List: Tornado Damage --> Zenith-List message posted by: Todd Osborne Hey everyone. I know some of you are weather buffs like me and wanted to let you know that I posted some pictures on my web site of the recent F3/F4 tornado damage near Madison, WI. My girlfriends house was destroyed, as was my truck, but we were not home when it hit. Everyone is doing much better now and we will get through this. No, the Zodiac (parts) was not hurt :-) If you want to see what it looks like at ground zero, go to www.toddtown.com and look for the link at the top of the page. Todd do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:38:25 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CH701 Alternator output From: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bob There is serious doubt if you even will get 20A out of the permanent magnet alternator that comes with the 912S because a 15A generator circuit breaker typically will never pop. Count on something like 12A and let the battery take the bite of occasional heavier loads. Effectively this means that you can maximum have a 140W continuous load. One way to drastically reduce consumption is to use all LED positional and strobe lights. Even then you will have a hard time to fit your power budget within the 150 watts. regards Max (just now planning circuits for my 701) > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] > Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 8:45 AM > To: zenith-list-digest@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: CH701 Alternator output > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com > > Listers > > I am going to be installing my 912S in my 701 soon and was > wondering if the > 20 amp alternator is large enough for a VFR night all > electric plane. I was > wondering if I could get some feedback from some of you that > are flying out > there. Also what size/ kind of battery are you using? My > plane has strobes, nav > lights, transponder, intercom, electric turn and bank, color > 3c moving map, Icom > 200 comm and I'm sure some other goodies I haven't mentioned. > I'm not sure > what this all adds up to, I haven't taken out all the stuff > and looked at the > amperage that each one draws yet. Just trying to get a > feeling of how others > have done with their planes. > > Thanks > Bob Spudis > CH701 , 912S Installing the brakes > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:25:56 AM PST US From: "William J. Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Lighting,etc. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" All- 1. Saw Jeff Small's landing light installation while he was at Franklin, Pa. Thought he scratch-built the mount but he said in a recent e-mail that it came from Zenith. Can't find a listing in the Zenith Parts Directory. Can anyone point me in the right direction? 2. Bought a position light set that came off of a V tail Bonanza- it's teardrop shaped and should look great on a 601. Only one lead going to the bulb. Since the lights will be mounted to fiberglas, I figured I'd make a ground jumper with a ring connector to bolt to the backing plate on one end and soldered to a piece of scrap aluminum I'll rivet to the spar under the rear skin. Comments? While we're on the subject, can anyone recommend the equivalent to the "Complete Idiot's Guide to Aircraft Wiring"? I'm not a complete idiot, but considering some of the mistakes I've made in the past, I come pretty close. 3. Finally, you're supposed to mount the fiberglas tip rib in such a manner that your position light backing is 90=B0 to the spar. Mine doesn't even come close. The only explanation I can come up with is that the fiberglas warped over time (It's been over two years since it was layed up). Other than a wedge under the light backing, does anyone have a suggestion? Thanks. Bill Naumuk 601HDS do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:58:19 AM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 gear /strut assy. 7F17-1SP --> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com The holes would be for the bolts and rivets that attach the gear/strut fittings to the fuslage. Also there are two small drain hole for water to escape from. Bob Spudis Ch701, on wheels ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:03:16 AM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lighting,etc. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Bill, Try Bob Nuckoll's book on aircraft wiring found at www.aeroelectric.com It's as good as it gets and has a lot of wiring diagrams to suggest an approach for varying aircraft configurations. Theory to applicaton, all very good. Larry McFarland do not archive William J. Naumuk wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" > > While we're on the subject, can anyone recommend the equivalent to the "Complete Idiot's Guide to Aircraft Wiring"? I'm not a complete idiot, but considering some of the mistakes I've made in the past, I come pretty close. > > Bill Naumuk > 601HDS > > do not archive > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:40:24 AM PST US From: "Robert Schoenberger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lighting,etc. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" Also try Jon Croke's "Electrical Wiring 101 for your Homebuilt Aircraft" - available at HomebuiltHELP.com. Jon has some other very helpful CD's also. Robert Schoenberger 701 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lighting,etc. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland > > Bill, > Try Bob Nuckoll's book on aircraft wiring found at www.aeroelectric.com > It's as good as it gets and has a lot of wiring diagrams to suggest an > approach > for varying aircraft configurations. Theory to applicaton, all very good. > Larry McFarland > do not archive > > William J. Naumuk wrote: > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" >> >> >> While we're on the subject, can anyone recommend the equivalent to the >> "Complete Idiot's Guide to Aircraft Wiring"? I'm not a complete idiot, >> but considering some of the mistakes I've made in the past, I come pretty >> close. >> >> Bill Naumuk >> 601HDS >> >> do not archive >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:22 PM PST US From: "David Alberti" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Lighting,etc. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Alberti" Don't forget your wing will be at an angle when mounted to the center wing spar. This will change your final angle. Dave - 3. Finally, you're supposed to mount the fiberglas tip rib in such a manner that your position light backing is 90=B0 to the spar. Mine doesn't even come close. The only explanation I can come up with is that the fiberglas warped over time (It's been over two years since it was layed up). Other than a wedge under the light backing, does anyone have a suggestion? Thanks. Bill Naumuk 601HDS ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:20:16 PM PST US From: "William J. Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lighting,etc. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" Dave- Looking at the wing from the top, the dihedral will change the angle in the Z axis, but not in the X, with the fulcrum being the aluminum tip/fiberglass tip juncture. that's what I'm having trouble with. (This is assuming the connection between the mid and outboard section doesn't give you a slight "Swept wing" effect.) I'm going downstairs right after I answer the e-mails people graciously sent with their ideas, and see if putting a shim between the 45 deg L angle on the spar and the tip rib helps. Thanks. Bill do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Alberti" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Lighting,etc. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Alberti" > > Don't forget your wing will be at an angle when mounted to the center wing > spar. This will change your final angle. > > Dave > > - > > 3. Finally, you're supposed to mount the fiberglas tip rib in such a > manner that your position light backing is 90=B0 to the spar. Mine doesn't > even come close. The only explanation I can come up with is that the > fiberglas warped over time (It's been over two years since it was layed up). > Other than a wedge under the light backing, does anyone have a suggestion? > Thanks. > Bill Naumuk > 601HDS > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:34:29 PM PST US From: "William J. Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lighting,etc. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" Hi, Larry- Well, thanks to your help you can see that I'm actually breaking new ground after 2 years rebuilding. I saw the recommendation in your journal and just want to check out all the options. Good to know lots of diagrams are included. Quick question- the nose skin of my rudder has a big ding in it and I have a scrap of .016 big enough to replace it. Do I have to press the mild curvature in it, or can I just match drill using the old skin as a template and wrap it around the ribs by hand? Thanks. Bill do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lighting,etc. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland > > Bill, > Try Bob Nuckoll's book on aircraft wiring found at www.aeroelectric.com > It's as good as it gets and has a lot of wiring diagrams to suggest an > approach > for varying aircraft configurations. Theory to applicaton, all very good. > Larry McFarland > do not archive > > William J. Naumuk wrote: > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" > > > > While we're on the subject, can anyone recommend the equivalent to the "Complete Idiot's Guide to Aircraft Wiring"? I'm not a complete idiot, but considering some of the mistakes I've made in the past, I come pretty close. > > > > Bill Naumuk > > 601HDS > > > > do not archive > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:36 PM PST US From: "William J. Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lighting,etc. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" Robert- Yours is the second recommendation of this book- looking into it ASAP. Thanks. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Schoenberger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lighting,etc. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" > > Also try Jon Croke's "Electrical Wiring 101 for your Homebuilt Aircraft" - > available at HomebuiltHELP.com. Jon has some other very helpful CD's also. > Robert Schoenberger 701 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Larry McFarland" > To: > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lighting,etc. > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland > > > > Bill, > > Try Bob Nuckoll's book on aircraft wiring found at www.aeroelectric.com > > It's as good as it gets and has a lot of wiring diagrams to suggest an > > approach > > for varying aircraft configurations. Theory to applicaton, all very good. > > Larry McFarland > > do not archive > > > > William J. Naumuk wrote: > > > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" > >> > >> > >> While we're on the subject, can anyone recommend the equivalent to the > >> "Complete Idiot's Guide to Aircraft Wiring"? I'm not a complete idiot, > >> but considering some of the mistakes I've made in the past, I come pretty > >> close. > >> > >> Bill Naumuk > >> 601HDS > >> > >> do not archive > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:33:06 PM PST US From: "Bill Steer" Subject: Zenith-List: Cutting the HD canopy --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" I'm trying to follow the ZAC sequence for assembling the canopy on my HD - fit the frame to the fuselage, then fit the canopy to the fuse, then fit the canopy to the frame. The frame, which is the side-tilt variety, is complete and built to the dimensions shown on both the original plans and on the CAD plans. Now, when I set the canopy in place over the frame, the curvature of both the front and rear of the canopy where it meets the skins is a perfect fit, but there's about an inch between the canopy and the frame both front and rear, at the centerline. Also, the canopy is longer, fore and aft, than the dimensions shown in the plans by about 50mm. A friend who's building an XL tells me the instructions for that version call for fitting the frame hoops to the canopy, rather than vice versa. So there are a couple of questions... First, do I have the assembly order correct and, if I do, what's the best way to cut the canopy so it fits both the fuselage and the frame? That is, should cuts be made parallel to the existing canopy front and rear edges, or should the cuts taper from zero at the bottom edge to some value in the middle? Or should I use the canopy as-is, except for the bottom horizontal edge on both sides, and build new frame hoops to fit the canopy. Oh, and there's plenty of headroom inside the canopy, so trimming it wouldn't be a problem height-wise. Thanks very much for any help and advice. Bill ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:05 PM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lighting,etc. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Bill, The nose skin on the rudder requires you bend it under a piece of plywood with a 7/8" wood spacer that would prevent you from kinking the radius too tightly, but the answer to your question would be "probably", if the radius is very close to what you had on the original. I'd bend the radius first, then use the original as template for marking edges, and then, if the holes are already in your rudder ribs etc, I'd place the old one tightly over the new one and match mark the edges. A foolproof way to duplicate holes from an old template is to buy some clear acetate film from your local art supply store and tape it to the old piece aligning the edges. Then, ink mark the holes seen thru the acetate and then transfer the marked holes of the nose piece onto the newly bent one using the edges to align the acetate. Making a locational match reference will be key for using the acetate. When you're done with the acetate, wipe it clean with thinner for reuse on your next piece needing a duplicate or left hand right hand pattern. Hope this helps, Larry McFarland William J. Naumuk wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" > >Hi, Larry- > Well, thanks to your help you can see that I'm actually breaking new >ground after 2 years rebuilding. I saw the recommendation in your journal >and just want to check out all the options. Good to know lots of diagrams >are included. > Quick question- the nose skin of my rudder has a big ding in it and I >have a scrap of .016 big enough to replace it. Do I have to press the mild >curvature in it, or can I just match drill using the old skin as a template >and wrap it around the ribs by hand? > Thanks. > Bill > > do not archive >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Larry McFarland" >To: >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lighting,etc. > > > > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland >> >>Bill, >>Try Bob Nuckoll's book on aircraft wiring found at www.aeroelectric.com >>It's as good as it gets and has a lot of wiring diagrams to suggest an >>approach >>for varying aircraft configurations. Theory to applicaton, all very good. >>Larry McFarland >>do not archive >> >>William J. Naumuk wrote: >> >> >> >>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" >>> >>> > > > >>>While we're on the subject, can anyone recommend the equivalent to the >>> >>> >"Complete Idiot's Guide to Aircraft Wiring"? I'm not a complete idiot, but >considering some of the mistakes I've made in the past, I come pretty close. > > >>> Bill Naumuk >>> 601HDS >>> >>> do not archive >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:26:06 PM PST US From: "William J. Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Lights update --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" All- Spent an hour trying different things with the fiberglas tip rib. It IS "S" shaped, with the geometry moving inboard towards the root. "Overtrimming" the nose skin inboard to fit, rather than placing a shim under the light assembly seems to be the best fix. STOP ME IF YOU THINK I'M WRONG!! Thanks to all who offered their suggestions re: Aircraft Electrical. Considered the options, went with AeroElectric Connection because they offered printed schematics, a general instruction CD, and free updates for $33.00. Thanks again. Bill do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:57 PM PST US From: "William J. Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lighting,etc. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" Larry- Out of curiosity, where in the heck did you find the bend instructions? I looked through every piece of Zenith literature I have and couldn't find anything. Bill do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lighting,etc. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland > > Bill, > The nose skin on the rudder requires you bend it under a piece of > plywood with a 7/8" wood spacer that would prevent > you from kinking the radius too tightly, but the answer to your question > would be "probably", if the radius is very close to > what you had on the original. I'd bend the radius first, then use the > original as template for marking edges, and then, if the holes are > already in your rudder ribs etc, I'd place the old one tightly over the > new one and match mark the edges. > A foolproof way to duplicate holes from an old template is to buy some > clear acetate film from your local art supply store and tape it to the > old piece aligning the edges. Then, ink mark the holes seen thru the > acetate and then transfer the marked holes of the nose piece onto the > newly bent one using the edges to align the acetate. Making a locational > match reference will be key for using the acetate. When you're done with > the acetate, wipe it clean with thinner for reuse on your next piece > needing a duplicate or left hand right hand pattern. > Hope this helps, > > Larry McFarland > > > William J. Naumuk wrote: > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" > > > >Hi, Larry- > > Well, thanks to your help you can see that I'm actually breaking new > >ground after 2 years rebuilding. I saw the recommendation in your journal > >and just want to check out all the options. Good to know lots of diagrams > >are included. > > Quick question- the nose skin of my rudder has a big ding in it and I > >have a scrap of .016 big enough to replace it. Do I have to press the mild > >curvature in it, or can I just match drill using the old skin as a template > >and wrap it around the ribs by hand? > > Thanks. > > Bill > > > > do not archive > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Larry McFarland" > >To: > >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lighting,etc. > > > > > > > > > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland > >> > >>Bill, > >>Try Bob Nuckoll's book on aircraft wiring found at www.aeroelectric.com > >>It's as good as it gets and has a lot of wiring diagrams to suggest an > >>approach > >>for varying aircraft configurations. Theory to applicaton, all very good. > >>Larry McFarland > >>do not archive > >> > >>William J. Naumuk wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" > >>> > >>> > > > > > > > >>>While we're on the subject, can anyone recommend the equivalent to the > >>> > >>> > >"Complete Idiot's Guide to Aircraft Wiring"? I'm not a complete idiot, but > >considering some of the mistakes I've made in the past, I come pretty close. > > > > > >>> Bill Naumuk > >>> 601HDS > >>> > >>> do not archive > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:05 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Dear Thread Friends, got a question for all you folks with 3300s. How do you tell on the ground how much to adjust the mixture? A couple weeks ago I installed an H & N high performance air filter. A lot less restrictive. I wrote the Thread asking if it will effect the mixture, Remember? The answers were uniformly that the carb was self compensating so no adjustment would probably be required. Because of mid level cloud cover I had not got over 4 K since and the engine seemed to run OK. Today I climbed up to 6.5 K and the mill started running rough and losing power. Temps were still in the green and no throttle setting would clean it up. I started looking to see if I could make the runway. It was almost 100 degrees so I figured it couldn't be carb ice but I pulled the control and the engine immediately ran smooth. I pushed it back in, immediately rough again. I tried it at all throttle settings 200 rpm breaks and though I could maintain altitude my speed dropped off to under 100. I got near the strip and started easing her down and at about 3.5 K she ran smooth without carb heat. Now I do not think it was the heat, it was that the plumbing for carb heat is more restrictive and that made her run richer. So I figure I need to make the carb richer. I know the screw that controls the mixture, but is there any way to determine just how rich to adjust her without taking the bird up for test flights every quarter turn ? Best regards, Bill of Hot Georgia ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:09 PM PST US From: Jorge Prieto Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Parts for Sale --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jorge Prieto I have the following parts for sale: 1 wing kit (never started) with the fuel system kit, landing light kit, electric aileron trim tab, wing baggage locker kit 1 tail section 80% completed 1 set of Drawings and manual Total Invested $8,470.00. Sell for $6,000. I bought a Rans Super Coyote II. I am located in Dallas, TX. Have numerous photos