---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 08/22/05: 51 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:21 AM - Stratus engine mount crack (Bryan Martin) 2. 05:13 AM - Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture (Bob Miller) 3. 06:16 AM - Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture (Pete Krotje) 4. 06:16 AM - Re: Cutting the HD canopy (Larry McFarland) 5. 06:23 AM - Re: Lights update (Larry McFarland) 6. 06:36 AM - Re: Lighting,etc. (Larry McFarland) 7. 06:37 AM - Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture (Weston, Jim) 8. 06:41 AM - Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture (Weston, Jim) 9. 06:49 AM - Re: Cutting the HD canopy (Weston, Jim) 10. 08:28 AM - fuel sender placement (Brad Cohen) 11. 09:11 AM - Thanks for visiting us! (EMAproducts@aol.com) 12. 09:14 AM - Re: Cutting the HD canopy (Bill Steer) 13. 09:27 AM - Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 14. 09:37 AM - Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 15. 09:55 AM - Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture (Pete Krotje) 16. 10:49 AM - Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 17. 11:01 AM - Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture (Pete Krotje) 18. 11:23 AM - Re: fuel sender placement (Robin Bellach) 19. 11:26 AM - Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 20. 11:35 AM - Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture (Weston, Jim) 21. 12:03 PM - Re: fuel sender placement (N5SL) 22. 12:03 PM - Re: fuel sender placement (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 23. 12:14 PM - Cortec Primer (Chuck Deiterich) 24. 12:30 PM - Re: fuel sender placement (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 25. 12:35 PM - Re: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture (Pete Krotje) 26. 01:17 PM - Re: fuel sender placement (N5SL) 27. 01:25 PM - Re: Cutting the HD canopy (Bryan Martin) 28. 01:40 PM - Re: fuel sender placement (Bryan Martin) 29. 02:04 PM - Re: fuel sender placement (Lance Gingell) 30. 02:04 PM - Re: Cutting the HD canopy (David Alberti) 31. 02:17 PM - Re: Cutting the HD canopy (David Alberti) 32. 02:46 PM - Completed August Workshop (Dave VanLanen) 33. 02:49 PM - Re: fuel sender placement (Robin Bellach) 34. 02:56 PM - Re: Completed August Workshop (Craig Payne) 35. 03:11 PM - vor requirements for ifr (john butterfield) 36. 03:16 PM - Re: fuel sender placement (William J. Naumuk) 37. 03:18 PM - Re: Completed August Workshop (Randy Culp) 38. 03:21 PM - Re: Completed August Workshop (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 39. 03:30 PM - Re: Lights update (William J. Naumuk) 40. 03:30 PM - Re: Completed August Workshop (Larry McFarland) 41. 03:34 PM - Re: Lighting,etc. (William J. Naumuk) 42. 04:08 PM - Re: Completed August Workshop (William J. Naumuk) 43. 04:53 PM - Re: Completed August Workshop (Rich Dodson) 44. 05:04 PM - Re: Completed August Workshop (Gary Gower) 45. 05:04 PM - Re: fuel sender placement (Mike Fortunato) 46. 05:47 PM - Re: Completed August Workshop (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 47. 05:56 PM - Re: fuel sender placement (Al Young) 48. 07:31 PM - Re: fuel sender placement (VideoFlyer@AOL.COM) 49. 08:23 PM - Re: vor requirements for ifr (Rob Campbell) 50. 08:27 PM - Re: fuel sender placement (Brandon Tucker) 51. 11:11 PM - Re: vor requirements for ifr (Paul Mulwitz) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:21:35 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Stratus engine mount crack From: Bryan Martin Stratus List --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin I found a crack on my upper right engine mount today. The crack started at the front end of the upper gusset and extended down and back at a 45 degree angle for about 3/4 inch. I remembered reading about this on the list some time ago. I checked the archives and found a few other reported cracks on the same mount in the same place after about the same number of hours on the engine. I bought the engine in April 2001, I have 120 hours on the engine now. Looks like I'm going to be down for a while for repairs. It's about time for my annual condition inspection anyway. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:21 AM PST US From: Bob Miller Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bob Miller Bill, I looked over my seminar notes and can't find the answer to this excellent question. With your permission, I'll submit the question to the Jabiru matronics list if you haven't already. Have you asked Pete at US Jabiru? I'd sure like to know the answer when you find it. I'm assuming you don't have the economy tuning kit, which makes the engine run leaner. Once you get it straightened out, it would be interesting if the economy tuning kit would work with the new air fliter, and if so, what kind of economy you get. Please keep us posted. do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:03 AM PST US From: "Pete Krotje" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pete Krotje" Bill, The screw you refer to only adjusts the idle mixture. It will do nothing to change the cruise power mixture. Please check that the carb vent tube is still attached. Your symptoms sound like what we see when the vent tube is dislodged. Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Dear Thread Friends, got a question for all you folks with 3300s. How do you tell on the ground how much to adjust the mixture? A couple weeks ago I installed an H & N high performance air filter. A lot less restrictive. I wrote the Thread asking if it will effect the mixture, Remember? The answers were uniformly that the carb was self compensating so no adjustment would probably be required. Because of mid level cloud cover I had not got over 4 K since and the engine seemed to run OK. Today I climbed up to 6.5 K and the mill started running rough and losing power. Temps were still in the green and no throttle setting would clean it up. I started looking to see if I could make the runway. It was almost 100 degrees so I figured it couldn't be carb ice but I pulled the control and the engine immediately ran smooth. I pushed it back in, immediately rough again. I tried it at all throttle settings 200 rpm breaks and though I could maintain altitude my speed dropped off to under 100. I got near the strip and started easing her down and at about 3.5 K she ran smooth without carb heat. Now I do not think it was the heat, it was that the plumbing for carb heat is more restrictive and that made her run richer. So I figure I need to make the carb richer. I know the screw that controls the mixture, but is there any way to determine just how rich to adjust her without taking the bird up for test flights every quarter turn ? Best regards, Bill of Hot Georgia ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:03 AM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cutting the HD canopy --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Bill, I had much the same experience and had to progressively trim the front and rear canopy edges down to make contact with the bows. Saved trimming on the sides for last. I used blue masking tape and an ink marker compass held vertically to make a line of equal vertical displacement front and rear to the fuselage top skins. The front and rear canopy edges can be off the skins by as much as a quarter inch because the rubber trim will touch down and close the gap. If you're thinking of using flashing, I don't recommend it, for the front or rear if you can manage to get a good fit all round. Important that the bows and canopy have a good matching curvature, but if excess canopy height is your only problem, consider it a good thing and trim the front and rear contact areas until the canopy comes down to rest upon the bows. Take your time as an inch can be a long way down if you cut too much at a time. http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/canopyrtfrt.gif I've a bunch of pictures on the canopy page of my website and it's a forward tilt but the principals for fitting are the same. If you need more info, just ask, Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Bill Steer wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" > >I'm trying to follow the ZAC sequence for assembling the canopy on my HD - >fit the frame to the fuselage, then fit the canopy to the fuse, then fit the >canopy to the frame. The frame, which is the side-tilt variety, is complete >and built to the dimensions shown on both the original plans and on the CAD >plans. Now, when I set the canopy in place over the frame, the curvature of >both the front and rear of the canopy where it meets the skins is a perfect >fit, but there's about an inch between the canopy and the frame both front >and rear, at the centerline. Also, the canopy is longer, fore and aft, than >the dimensions shown in the plans by about 50mm. A friend who's building an >XL tells me the instructions for that version call for fitting the frame >hoops to the canopy, rather than vice versa. > >So there are a couple of questions... First, do I have the assembly order >correct and, if I do, what's the best way to cut the canopy so it fits both >the fuselage and the frame? That is, should cuts be made parallel to the >existing canopy front and rear edges, or should the cuts taper from zero at >the bottom edge to some value in the middle? Or should I use the canopy >as-is, except for the bottom horizontal edge on both sides, and build new >frame hoops to fit the canopy. Oh, and there's plenty of headroom inside >the canopy, so trimming it wouldn't be a problem height-wise. > >Thanks very much for any help and advice. > >Bill > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:42 AM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lights update --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Bill, Again, with a piece of clear acetate film, you can ink mark trace the edge of your trimmed wing and by flipping it over to the other wing, see if that trim solution is going to be symmetrical and suitable for the other tip rib. Also, you might try marking the acetate first, over the tip rib, slide it back an inch or so and then mark the nose skin from it if it looks like a good fit. Larry William J. Naumuk wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" > >All- > Spent an hour trying different things with the fiberglas tip rib. It IS >"S" shaped, with the geometry moving inboard towards the root. >"Overtrimming" the nose skin inboard to fit, rather than placing a shim >under the light assembly seems to be the best fix. STOP ME IF YOU THINK I'M >WRONG!! > Bill > do not archive > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:45 AM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lighting,etc. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Bill, I shouldn't have said "require", rather ZAC "provides" an illustrated means of bending the stabilizer nose skin in the Zenair Construction Manual on page 21. It describes use of a piece of plywood and a 18mm stop strip, all on top of a table to prevent dings and uneven pressures etc during the bend process. I used the method and it worked fine. You might have to go at it a couple of times to get the amount of bend you want, but that's also better than over-bending. The same principal is good for the rudder nose skin. I can scan that page and send it to you if you don't have it, tho it's nearly self explainatory. Larry William J. Naumuk wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" > >Larry- > Out of curiosity, where in the heck did you find the bend instructions? >I looked through every piece of Zenith literature I have and couldn't find >anything. > Bill > > do not archive > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:30 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture From: "Weston, Jim" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" Hi Bill, Glad to hear that she's still flying well, sorry to hear that your having some carb trouble. Of course you know that I don't have a 3300, but if you have Bing altitude compensating carbs there isn't a screw adjustment that adjusts mixture at cruise power. There is an idle mixture adjustment at the bottom of the carb. Sounds like you have main jet problems. If your carb is like mine (I purchased a manual from Bing that you can take a look at), inside the large vacuum dome there is a clip ring that fits into slots on the main jet needle that can be moved to richen the mid to high range transition and the high end somewhat. To really change the high end there is a new needle and jet that would need to be replaced. However, if you have dual carbs the roughness may be from just one carb messing up. Which of course would be a whole different problem. Jim -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Dear Thread Friends, got a question for all you folks with 3300s. How do you tell on the ground how much to adjust the mixture? A couple weeks ago I installed an H & N high performance air filter. A lot less restrictive. I wrote the Thread asking if it will effect the mixture, Remember? The answers were uniformly that the carb was self compensating so no adjustment would probably be required. Because of mid level cloud cover I had not got over 4 K since and the engine seemed to run OK. Today I climbed up to 6.5 K and the mill started running rough and losing power. Temps were still in the green and no throttle setting would clean it up. I started looking to see if I could make the runway. It was almost 100 degrees so I figured it couldn't be carb ice but I pulled the control and the engine immediately ran smooth. I pushed it back in, immediately rough again. I tried it at all throttle settings 200 rpm breaks and though I could maintain altitude my speed dropped off to under 100. I got near the strip and started easing her down and at about 3.5 K she ran smooth without carb heat. Now I do not think it was the heat, it was that the plumbing for carb heat is more restrictive and that made her run richer. So I figure I need to make the carb richer. I know the screw that controls the mixture, but is there any way to determine just how rich to adjust her without taking the bird up for test flights every quarter turn ? Best regards, Bill of Hot Georgia ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:04 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture From: "Weston, Jim" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" Good call. That tube provides ambient/static pressure to the top of the diaphragm that moves the main jet plunger. I've heard that if you lengthen this tube it will have adverse effects. Probably, more than anything it depends on what the airflow is across the end of that tube wherever it's routed. Jim Weston 601HDS Concord, GA -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Krotje Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pete Krotje" Bill, The screw you refer to only adjusts the idle mixture. It will do nothing to change the cruise power mixture. Please check that the carb vent tube is still attached. Your symptoms sound like what we see when the vent tube is dislodged. Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Dear Thread Friends, got a question for all you folks with 3300s. How do you tell on the ground how much to adjust the mixture? A couple weeks ago I installed an H & N high performance air filter. A lot less restrictive. I wrote the Thread asking if it will effect the mixture, Remember? The answers were uniformly that the carb was self compensating so no adjustment would probably be required. Because of mid level cloud cover I had not got over 4 K since and the engine seemed to run OK. Today I climbed up to 6.5 K and the mill started running rough and losing power. Temps were still in the green and no throttle setting would clean it up. I started looking to see if I could make the runway. It was almost 100 degrees so I figured it couldn't be carb ice but I pulled the control and the engine immediately ran smooth. I pushed it back in, immediately rough again. I tried it at all throttle settings 200 rpm breaks and though I could maintain altitude my speed dropped off to under 100. I got near the strip and started easing her down and at about 3.5 K she ran smooth without carb heat. Now I do not think it was the heat, it was that the plumbing for carb heat is more restrictive and that made her run richer. So I figure I need to make the carb richer. I know the screw that controls the mixture, but is there any way to determine just how rich to adjust her without taking the bird up for test flights every quarter turn ? Best regards, Bill of Hot Georgia ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:47 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cutting the HD canopy From: "Weston, Jim" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" Bill, Don't forget that there are about 1/4 inch spacers between the frame and the canopy to hold the canopy off of the frame in between screws. They are cut out of nylon tubing. Jim Weston 601HDS -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cutting the HD canopy --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland --> Bill, I had much the same experience and had to progressively trim the front and rear canopy edges down to make contact with the bows. Saved trimming on the sides for last. I used blue masking tape and an ink marker compass held vertically to make a line of equal vertical displacement front and rear to the fuselage top skins. The front and rear canopy edges can be off the skins by as much as a quarter inch because the rubber trim will touch down and close the gap. If you're thinking of using flashing, I don't recommend it, for the front or rear if you can manage to get a good fit all round. Important that the bows and canopy have a good matching curvature, but if excess canopy height is your only problem, consider it a good thing and trim the front and rear contact areas until the canopy comes down to rest upon the bows. Take your time as an inch can be a long way down if you cut too much at a time. http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/canopyrtfrt.gif I've a bunch of pictures on the canopy page of my website and it's a forward tilt but the principals for fitting are the same. If you need more info, just ask, Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Bill Steer wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" > >I'm trying to follow the ZAC sequence for assembling the canopy on my >HD - fit the frame to the fuselage, then fit the canopy to the fuse, >then fit the canopy to the frame. The frame, which is the side-tilt >variety, is complete and built to the dimensions shown on both the >original plans and on the CAD plans. Now, when I set the canopy in >place over the frame, the curvature of both the front and rear of the >canopy where it meets the skins is a perfect fit, but there's about an >inch between the canopy and the frame both front and rear, at the >centerline. Also, the canopy is longer, fore and aft, than the >dimensions shown in the plans by about 50mm. A friend who's building >an XL tells me the instructions for that version call for fitting the frame hoops to the canopy, rather than vice versa. > >So there are a couple of questions... First, do I have the assembly >order correct and, if I do, what's the best way to cut the canopy so it >fits both the fuselage and the frame? That is, should cuts be made >parallel to the existing canopy front and rear edges, or should the >cuts taper from zero at the bottom edge to some value in the middle? >Or should I use the canopy as-is, except for the bottom horizontal edge >on both sides, and build new frame hoops to fit the canopy. Oh, and >there's plenty of headroom inside the canopy, so trimming it wouldn't be a problem height-wise. > >Thanks very much for any help and advice. > >Bill > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:48 AM PST US From: "Brad Cohen" Subject: Zenith-List: fuel sender placement --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brad Cohen" I am in the process of installing the right wing leading edge skin and I am trying to think at l;east one step ahead, and that means I am deciding on the fuel sender placement. I know that ZAC suggests placement along the inboard side of the tank (per plans and photo guide)but I think (after talking to other xl builders) that I will place it in the top of the tank. can anyone give me a location to place the sender, other than "on the top of the tank"? (such as x mm from the rear bead weld and x mm from the edge of the tank) I really only want to drill one hole in the fuel tank instead of two, after realizing that the place I pick is not the best location. Has anyone used nutplates or A4's to secure the inevitable access cover for said fuel sender? is there room under the leading edge skin for nutplates or just the shop heads of the rivets? Obviously I am working on the wing, I have not started on the baggage hatch either. If anyone has a few suggestions (other than whats already been posted) as to what to do/not to do when installing the baggage cover, I am open to advice/suggestions. Thanks for all your help! Brad COhen 6-5803 Do Not Archieve ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:18 AM PST US From: EMAproducts@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Thanks for visiting us! --> Zenith-List message posted by: EMAproducts@aol.com Just a note to say thanks to all who visited our display of the RiteAngle AOA system and attended forums @ Arlington & AirVenture this year. It is always good to see customers face to face, many of you have become good friends over the last 10 years. To those who are interested in our product we thank you for your interest and orders. EM aviation, LLC is a satellite dealer for Sportair-USA and will be handling Woodcomp propellers, Galaxy Ballistic Parachute Rescue Systems, and the line of aircraft that Sportair-USA handles. The Woodcomp props are at present available for Rotax engines 80-115 HP, in ground adjustable, in flight manually adjustable, and electronic adjustable. The electronic adjustable prop is available with reversing for the amphibians and full feathering for the powered sailplanes. Please contact me directly for info, our website will be updated in future to show these and other fine products we are handling. Thanks again for stopping by our display, if you still have questions please let me know via e-mail! Sincerely, Elbie Mendenhall EM Aviation, LLC www.riteangle.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:14:49 AM PST US From: "Bill Steer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cutting the HD canopy --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" Really?! I'd never heard or seen that. What happens where the canopy meets the flashing at the bottom edge? Or is the first screw far enough from the flashihg so it doesn't matter? Thanks for pointing that out! Bill > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" > > Bill, > > Don't forget that there are about 1/4 inch spacers between the frame and > the canopy to hold the canopy off of the frame in between screws. They > are cut out of nylon tubing. > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:46 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Jim & Pete, the tube your talking about, is that the one that runs from the carb up to the nipple of the mechanical fuel pump ? Clear plastic, not a fuel line. Jim you were talking that it depended on air flow over the end of the tube. If it is connected at both ends how does air flow over it. On my 3300 I received from Pete, straight from the box, it was connected to the pump nipple. Are you saying it is supposed to be an open end ?, I am at the office and don't have any manuals here to refer to. Thanks, Bill ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:44 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Pete, do you have a diagram of where the various tubes vent tubes are supposed to run ? I suspect somewhere I have a tube that is not where it is supposed to be and that it what is effecting the carb. If you have such a diagram please fax it to me at 478-827-0848, Thanks, Bill ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:44 AM PST US From: "Pete Krotje" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pete Krotje" Bill, The tube should be a 3/16 ID plastic line running from a nipple on the front of the carb to the 3/16 port on the airbox - clean side of air filter. Since you had the airbox cover off to replace filter the line may have come off. Pete Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Jim & Pete, the tube your talking about, is that the one that runs from the carb up to the nipple of the mechanical fuel pump ? Clear plastic, not a fuel line. Jim you were talking that it depended on air flow over the end of the tube. If it is connected at both ends how does air flow over it. On my 3300 I received from Pete, straight from the box, it was connected to the pump nipple. Are you saying it is supposed to be an open end ?, I am at the office and don't have any manuals here to refer to. Thanks, Bill ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:52 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Pete, is there supposed to be a vent tube from the carb to the mechanical fuel pump ? Bill ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:56 AM PST US From: "Pete Krotje" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pete Krotje" Bill, No vent from carb to fuel pump. Nipple on fuel pump is just an overboard drain in case fuel gets behind diaphram. Only vent line on carb goes to airbox Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Pete, is there supposed to be a vent tube from the carb to the mechanical fuel pump ? Bill ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:57 AM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel sender placement --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> I placed them on top inline with and 10-1/2" center to center inboard of the filler caps; but kind of regret placing them on top as I now have not figured out how to make appropriate faired/domed covers for them (they protrude about 3/8" above the top skiin). But, I guess if there ever is (or more likely WHEN there is) a problem with them, they will be easily accessible. So I too would be interested in how to fabricate or buy suitable covers. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Cohen" Subject: Zenith-List: fuel sender placement > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brad Cohen" > > I am in the process of installing the right wing leading edge skin and I > am > trying to think at l;east one step ahead, and that means I am deciding on > the fuel sender placement. > > I know that ZAC suggests placement along the inboard side of the tank (per > plans and photo guide)but I think (after talking to other xl builders) > that > I will place it in the top of the tank. can anyone give me a location to > place the sender, other than "on the top of the tank"? (such as x mm from > the rear bead weld and x mm from the edge of the tank) I really only want > to > drill one hole in the fuel tank instead of two, after realizing that the > place I pick is not the best location. > > Has anyone used nutplates or A4's to secure the inevitable access cover > for > said fuel sender? is there room under the leading edge skin for nutplates > or > just the shop heads of the rivets? > > Obviously I am working on the wing, I have not started on the baggage > hatch > either. If anyone has a few suggestions (other than whats already been > posted) as to what to do/not to do when installing the baggage cover, I am > open to advice/suggestions. > > Thanks for all your help! > Brad COhen > 6-5803 > Do Not Archieve > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:48 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Pete, that may be my problem in a nutshell. I'll go by the hanger tonight and see. Thanks, Bill ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:35:53 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture From: "Weston, Jim" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" Hmmm. Maybe I'm out of my element in talking about a 3300 carb setup, but on my Bing carbs the vent tube for each carb is about 3 inches long and is open-ended. They are there to provide ambient air pressure to the top of the main jet diaphragm. I'll have to take a look at yours the next time I'm at the airport. Jim -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Jim & Pete, the tube your talking about, is that the one that runs from the carb up to the nipple of the mechanical fuel pump ? Clear plastic, not a fuel line. Jim you were talking that it depended on air flow over the end of the tube. If it is connected at both ends how does air flow over it. On my 3300 I received from Pete, straight from the box, it was connected to the pump nipple. Are you saying it is supposed to be an open end ?, I am at the office and don't have any manuals here to refer to. Thanks, Bill ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:08 PM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel sender placement --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL If you are careful, you can reduce the height of the sender by modifying the top connection - remove one of the nuts and grind down the lug. Here's a photo of mine before I installed the top plate: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/5_30_04_Wingholes.JPG Here's a photo of the top plate cleco'd in place: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/3_7_04_Access.JPG I riveted it into place secretly hoping that I would never have to open it again. If I do, I can always drill it out. Scott Laughlin www.cooknwithgas.com working on my engine Robin Bellach <601zv@ritternet.com> wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> I placed them on top inline with and 10-1/2" center to center inboard of the filler caps; but kind of regret placing them on top as I now have not figured out how to make appropriate faired/domed covers for them (they protrude about 3/8" above the top skiin). But, I guess if there ever is (or more likely WHEN there is) a problem with them, they will be easily accessible. So I too would be interested in how to fabricate or buy suitable covers. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Cohen" Subject: Zenith-List: fuel sender placement > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brad Cohen" > > I am in the process of installing the right wing leading edge skin and I > am > trying to think at l;east one step ahead, and that means I am deciding on > the fuel sender placement. > > I know that ZAC suggests placement along the inboard side of the tank (per > plans and photo guide)but I think (after talking to other xl builders) > that > I will place it in the top of the tank. can anyone give me a location to > place the sender, other than "on the top of the tank"? (such as x mm from > the rear bead weld and x mm from the edge of the tank) I really only want > to > drill one hole in the fuel tank instead of two, after realizing that the > place I pick is not the best location. > > Has anyone used nutplates or A4's to secure the inevitable access cover > for > said fuel sender? is there room under the leading edge skin for nutplates > or > just the shop heads of the rivets? > > Obviously I am working on the wing, I have not started on the baggage > hatch > either. If anyone has a few suggestions (other than whats already been > posted) as to what to do/not to do when installing the baggage cover, I am > open to advice/suggestions. > > Thanks for all your help! > Brad COhen > 6-5803 > Do Not Archieve > > > --------------------------------- Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:08 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel sender placement --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Brad, on your senders. That threaded stud your talking about that sticks up is merely the ground. What I did was grind it and the nut down until there was only enough to hold on the ground connecto, used Lock-Tite, and covered the whole thing with a hand size piece of thin bicycle rubber inter tube (used that "elephant snot" yellow glue to keep it in place). Clears easy the top skin and is protected by the rubber. You can make these domes things you've written about if your looking for work, but I have to say mine have been fine. Also, remember when you start putting gas in the tanks they will sink down a bit from the 12 gallon weight (78 pounds ?) and the metal gives a little and the cork compresses. FWIW, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:14:31 PM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Zenith-List: Cortec Primer --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" I am getting ready to pull the wings on my 701 and finally paint them. I painted the fuselage before flying it. I brushed a thin coat of Zinc Chromate on the fuse and painted it with automobile acrylic enamel. It looks the same as when I first painted it in 2002. How do most apply Cortec VCI-373 primer and will it work under acrylic enamel? Chuck D. N701TX ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:30:46 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel sender placement --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Brad, I think the center stud is the ground, ? but I'm at the office so I'm not sure. Either way, that connection stud comes with two nuts on it, but one with Lock-Tite should hold a little wire in place with no problem. Best regards, Bill ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:35:50 PM PST US From: "Pete Krotje" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pete Krotje" Jim, The vent we are discussing keeps carb bowl pressure balanced with incomming airflow. The main jet diaphram is controlled by a vent to the incomming air vs a vent to the engine side of the carb. Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Weston, Jim Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" Hmmm. Maybe I'm out of my element in talking about a 3300 carb setup, but on my Bing carbs the vent tube for each carb is about 3 inches long and is open-ended. They are there to provide ambient air pressure to the top of the main jet diaphragm. I'll have to take a look at yours the next time I'm at the airport. Jim -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carb Mixture --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Jim & Pete, the tube your talking about, is that the one that runs from the carb up to the nipple of the mechanical fuel pump ? Clear plastic, not a fuel line. Jim you were talking that it depended on air flow over the end of the tube. If it is connected at both ends how does air flow over it. On my 3300 I received from Pete, straight from the box, it was connected to the pump nipple. Are you saying it is supposed to be an open end ?, I am at the office and don't have any manuals here to refer to. Thanks, Bill ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:17:34 PM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel sender placement --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL The center stud on mine is "+" and is isolated from the tank with a rubber grommet. You can see it here with the square, rubber grommet under the plate and the white, hot wire that plugs into the sender. Mine came from Aircraft Spruce and is their universal sender. http://www.cooknwithgas.com/3_5_03_SenderParts.JPG You will want to keep this away from the top skin. I used the clear rubber glue called "Liquid Steel" that is sold at Lowes and at Wal-Mart. I then topped that off with a few layers of duct tape. Even with all that I don't think it's touching the skin. The round plate is the ground and I had to weld the "L" part to the plate to get a good ground because it didn't work when I first tried it. I installed a ground wire on one of the mounting screws. You might want to try your sender before closing up the wing to make sure this isn't an issue. Scott Laughlin www.cooknwithgas.com 601XL/Corvair JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Brad, I think the center stud is the ground, ? but I'm at the office so I'm not sure. Either way, that connection stud comes with two nuts on it, but one with Lock-Tite should hold a little wire in place with no problem. Best regards, Bill --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cutting the HD canopy From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin There are no spacers in my XL plans either. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive. on 8/22/05 12:05 PM, Bill Steer at bsteer@gwi.net wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" > > Really?! I'd never heard or seen that. What happens where the canopy meets > the flashing at the bottom edge? Or is the first screw far enough from the > flashihg so it doesn't matter? > > Thanks for pointing that out! > > Bill > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" >> >> Bill, >> >> Don't forget that there are about 1/4 inch spacers between the frame and >> the canopy to hold the canopy off of the frame in between screws. They >> are cut out of nylon tubing. >> > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:40:36 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel sender placement From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin I put mine on top as close to the spar as I could. This location gives the most clearance between tank and skin. The sender should be installed so that the float is as close to the inboard end of the tank as practical. The float rod should then be adjusted so that the gauge reads zero when the float touches the bottom of the tank. That way, when the gauge reads near empty, you know it's time to land and refuel. You will burn off 3-4 gallons before the gauge moves off the full mark but it's more important to know reliably when the tank empty. I also took the terminals on the sender apart and re-installed them with the lock washers on the inside, under the metal plate and ground down the terminal screws with a belt sander to give more clearance between the top of the terminal and the skin. I made a flat access cover to put over the sender and used nutserts in the skin to secure them. I glued electrical insulation to the bottom of the cover to ensure there would be no short circuit to the terminals. It was a tight fit but it did fit. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive. on 8/22/05 11:27 AM, Brad Cohen at bradfnp@msn.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brad Cohen" > > I am in the process of installing the right wing leading edge skin and I am > trying to think at l;east one step ahead, and that means I am deciding on > the fuel sender placement. > > > Has anyone used nutplates or A4's to secure the inevitable access cover for > said fuel sender? is there room under the leading edge skin for nutplates or > just the shop heads of the rivets? > > Obviously I am working on the wing, I have not started on the baggage hatch > either. If anyone has a few suggestions (other than whats already been > posted) as to what to do/not to do when installing the baggage cover, I am > open to advice/suggestions. > > Thanks for all your help! > Brad COhen > 6-5803 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:44 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: fuel sender placement From: "Lance Gingell" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" I did much the same as Bryan. See here for my log/pics on 6-K-1: http://lancegingell.com/planebuild/constructionlog.asp?PlanRef=6-k-1&Sea rch=PlanRef ..lance -----Original Message----- --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin --> I put mine on top as close to the spar as I could. ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:44 PM PST US From: "David Alberti" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cutting the HD canopy --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Alberti" When did they add those? -----Original Message----- --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" Bill, Don't forget that there are about 1/4 inch spacers between the frame and the canopy to hold the canopy off of the frame in between screws. They are cut out of nylon tubing. Jim Weston 601HDS - ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 02:17:31 PM PST US From: "David Alberti" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cutting the HD canopy --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Alberti" There is tubing that is cut to fit the "thickness" of the canopy and the screw passes through the enter of this tube diameter. The hole in the canopy is drilled to just fit the outside diameter of the tube. I believe I used the same material that the brake lines are made of for this. Are these the spacers you mention? -----Original Message----- Don't forget that there are about 1/4 inch spacers between the frame and the canopy to hold the canopy off of the frame in between screws. They are cut out of nylon tubing. Jim Weston 601HDS - ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 02:46:43 PM PST US From: "Dave VanLanen" Subject: Zenith-List: Completed August Workshop --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" My two sons and I attended the August workshop, and came home with a completed 601 XL rudder, and with the complete kit loaded in our van. As many others on the list have noted, the workshop is definitely worth attending. I learned a lot, including learnings from a couple of dumb mistakes. My sons also thorougly enjoyed it, and are now committed to helping me with the project. The only thing I am finding now is that I'm tending to obsess about whether we did a good enough job on the construction. Must be my "type A" personality. For example, I'm worrying about whether we got all our edge distances good enough. Also, I forgot to explain to my son the correct way to debur using the file, and he deburred some of the holes on the rear skin by lightly filing at a 90 degree angle to the edge, leaving fine surface scratches similar to roughing the surface with an abrasive pad. I'll need to get myself into the correct frame of mind or I'll never make it through the entire construction process if its going to worry me this much. Is this normal, or is it just me? I'd like to think that the design leaves some safety leeway for minor inconsistencies and errors, especially since this is a learning process for us. I hope that's the case. Dave Van Lanen Madison, WI 601XL - rudder completed Do not archive ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:28 PM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel sender placement --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Apparently the Aircraft Spruce senders are the way to go, since the ones that ZAC provides (VW Rabbit type) stick up well above the top skin. Now I have four of them installed and have to deal with creating 4 bumpy covers on top my wings. I'm surprised no others have chimed in with similar problem. Am I the only sucker that stupidly installed the ZAC type on top? ----- Original Message ----- From: "N5SL" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel sender placement > --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL > > The center stud on mine is "+" and is isolated from the tank with a rubber > grommet. You can see it here with the square, rubber grommet under the > plate and the white, hot wire that plugs into the sender. Mine came from > Aircraft Spruce and is their universal sender. > > http://www.cooknwithgas.com/3_5_03_SenderParts.JPG > > You will want to keep this away from the top skin. I used the clear > rubber glue called "Liquid Steel" that is sold at Lowes and at Wal-Mart. I > then topped that off with a few layers of duct tape. Even with all that I > don't think it's touching the skin. > > The round plate is the ground and I had to weld the "L" part to the plate > to get a good ground because it didn't work when I first tried it. I > installed a ground wire on one of the mounting screws. You might want to > try your sender before closing up the wing to make sure this isn't an > issue. > > > Scott Laughlin > www.cooknwithgas.com > 601XL/Corvair > > JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com > > Brad, I think the center stud is the ground, ? but I'm at the office so > I'm > not sure. Either way, that connection stud comes with two nuts on it, but > one > with Lock-Tite should hold a little wire in place with no problem. Best > regards, Bill > > > --------------------------------- > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:40 PM PST US From: Craig Payne Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Completed August Workshop --> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne I believe Chris Heintz said it best. To paraphrase: "Don't obsess, you are not building a 747". -- Craig Dave VanLanen wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" > > My two sons and I attended the August workshop, and came home with a > completed 601 XL rudder, and with the complete kit loaded in our van. As > many others on the list have noted, the workshop is definitely worth > attending. I learned a lot, including learnings from a couple of dumb > mistakes. My sons also thorougly enjoyed it, and are now committed to > helping me with the project. > > The only thing I am finding now is that I'm tending to obsess about whether > we did a good enough job on the construction. Must be my "type A" > personality. For example, I'm worrying about whether we got all our edge > distances good enough. Also, I forgot to explain to my son the correct way > to debur using the file, and he deburred some of the holes on the rear skin > by lightly filing at a 90 degree angle to the edge, leaving fine surface > scratches similar to roughing the surface with an abrasive pad. > > I'll need to get myself into the correct frame of mind or I'll never make it > through the entire construction process if its going to worry me this much. > Is this normal, or is it just me? I'd like to think that the design leaves > some safety leeway for minor inconsistencies and errors, especially since > this is a learning process for us. I hope that's the case. > > Dave Van Lanen > Madison, WI > 601XL - rudder completed > > Do not archive > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 03:11:35 PM PST US From: john butterfield Subject: Zenith-List: vor requirements for ifr --> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield hi guys, i hope to finish my XL by october of this year. i plan to use the corvair. I am planing my panel and want to be able to fly light IFR I will fly out of torrance, Ca and need to get through the light ceiling around 2,000 feet, which usually is less than 500' thick. my question is this. I will be using the dylon and gps for my navigation. I understand that i must have a vor receiver to be legal. Can I use the vor contained in my handheld icom and be legal. I have used it for navigation in the past, cumbersome but it works. I would never use it if my dylon was not working, but would like to avoid the traditional panel mounted indicator and nav receiver. it really is a waste to have a vor if it is never used. As for an emergency, the vor in the handheld would suffice. I know this attitude seems a little cavalier, but i am not trying to be funny, just don't want a standard vor nav if i don't have to. I intend to have a tru track alt hold and a good gps based auto pilot for navigation. john butterfield 601XL --- Zenith-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ================================================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================== > > Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can also be > found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes > the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features > Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the > plain ASCII version > of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed with a > generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2005-07-20.html > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2005-07-20.txt > > > ================================================ > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================ > > > > > Zenith-List Digest > Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Wed > 07/20/05: 35 > > > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 12:28 AM - Re: Re: Alex & the Rudder Factory > (kevinbonds) > 2. 03:21 AM - Zenith 601XL Flight Simulator > (Jim Pellien) > 3. 04:43 AM - Re: Zenith 601XL Flight Simulator > (Paul Mulwitz) > 4. 07:38 AM - Re: Oshkosh Lodging (B Johnson) > 5. 08:32 AM - Rivet Tools (Alex Rodriguez, MD) > 6. 09:02 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Graham Kirby) > 7. 09:08 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Robert > Schoenberger) > 8. 09:15 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank > George (Corvallis)) > 9. 09:22 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Lance Gingell) > 10. 09:49 AM - C-IDUS cross-country (Trevor > Page) > 11. 10:05 AM - Re: C-IDUS cross-country > (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) > 12. 10:07 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Paul Mulwitz) > 13. 10:11 AM - Re: rivet tools (Zed Smith) > 14. 10:31 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Kent Brown) > 15. 10:36 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Kent Brown) > 16. 11:09 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank > George (Corvallis)) > 17. 11:49 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Kent Brown) > 18. 12:33 PM - Re: C-IDUS cross-country (Larry > McFarland) > 19. 12:40 PM - Re: Rivet Tools () > 20. 12:53 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (jnbolding1) > 21. 12:54 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Air vs. Electric > Tools) (N5SL) > 22. 01:08 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank > George (Corvallis)) > 23. 01:18 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Clyde Barcus) > 24. 01:18 PM - pissshh-bonk (Zed Smith) > 25. 01:23 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank > George (Corvallis)) > 26. 01:46 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank > George (Corvallis)) > 27. 01:47 PM - Re: Last Call For Builders dinner > RSVP (N5SL) > 28. 01:47 PM - Re: Last Call For Builders dinner > RSVP (N5SL) > 29. 01:50 PM - Re: [ Johann G. Johannsson ] > (Tebenkof@aol.com) > 30. 02:14 PM - Re: Rivet Tools > (VideoFlyer@aol.com) > 31. 03:55 PM - Re: Oshkosh Lodging (David > Alberti) > 32. 04:28 PM - Lodging (Neitzel) > 33. 04:49 PM - Not Getting Daily Postings (Dave > VanLanen) > 34. 05:46 PM - Re: Oshkosh Lodging (WAYNE > BEATTIE) > 35. 07:58 PM - Re: Last Call For Builders dinner > RSVP (Jim Pellien) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 12:28:36 AM PST US > From: "kevinbonds" > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder > Factory > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" > > > > Hey guys > > I'll be right back. I've got to run over to the > pharmacist and have him read > Alex's emails to me :) > > Kevin Bonds > > Nashville TN > > 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. > > Empennage done; working on wings and engine. > > http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds > > > do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Rodriguez, MD [mailto:proteus@mac.com] > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder > Factory > > Hi Kevin, > > I guess my signature is just asking for trouble. :) > > I can tell this list is going to be great fun > though. Take care, > > Alex > > On Jul 19, 2005, at 2:40 PM, kevinbonds wrote: > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" > > > > > > So that's Workshop . . . yes. Admit you are a > doctor or lawyer on > > this list > > . . .no. > > > > Kevin Bonds > > > > Nashville TN > > > > 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. > > > > Empennage done; working on wings and engine. > > > > http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds > > > > > > do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On > Behalf Of > > VideoFlyer@aol.com > > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder > Factory > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: > VideoFlyer@aol.com > > > > Yes! Do the workshop! I highly recommend it. > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 03:16:54 PM PST US From: "William J. Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel sender placement --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" Brad- Just finished installing scratch built hatches on my HDS. Don't know what you've read so far, but #1 priority is to drill 5/15 holes through the hatch and 3/8 through the top skin. # 2 is, if you're using L angles parallel to the ribs, bend them like you did for the top skin. # 3 is get retainer snap rings to keep them attached to the hatch when it's open- 9 cents each at Aircraft Spruce. #4- If you have a Dzus that makes the hatch draw down too tight or is too loose when engaged, it's a lot easier to order a different length than risk buggering up your springs trying to bend them. They make Dzus in .050 length increments and only cost a couple of bucks each. 5# You don't HAVE to tear the hinges apart and reverse them. You can leave them as they come from the factory and slip them between the top skin and the spar cap. That's OK by Zenith, because they offer the option in the HDS manual.I did it because hinges seem to work less freely once you pull the pin and reinsert it. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Cohen" Subject: Zenith-List: fuel sender placement > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brad Cohen" > > I am in the process of installing the right wing leading edge skin and I am > trying to think at l;east one step ahead, and that means I am deciding on > the fuel sender placement. > > I know that ZAC suggests placement along the inboard side of the tank (per > plans and photo guide)but I think (after talking to other xl builders) that > I will place it in the top of the tank. can anyone give me a location to > place the sender, other than "on the top of the tank"? (such as x mm from > the rear bead weld and x mm from the edge of the tank) I really only want to > drill one hole in the fuel tank instead of two, after realizing that the > place I pick is not the best location. > > Has anyone used nutplates or A4's to secure the inevitable access cover for > said fuel sender? is there room under the leading edge skin for nutplates or > just the shop heads of the rivets? > > Obviously I am working on the wing, I have not started on the baggage hatch > either. If anyone has a few suggestions (other than whats already been > posted) as to what to do/not to do when installing the baggage cover, I am > open to advice/suggestions. > > Thanks for all your help! > Brad COhen > 6-5803 > Do Not Archieve > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 03:18:41 PM PST US From: "Randy Culp" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Completed August Workshop --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Culp" Dave: You are correct in your statement that you'll never get through this project if you obsess over little stuff like this. Don't worry about it! I've only got the wings done so far, and learned early on that if I wanted to worry about every little tiny detail like that, I'd end up investing 2 or 3 times the "suggested" 500 hour build time into this. Edge distance is one are that you need to keep a "reasonable" frame of mind about. I aim for 10-11mm and sometimes get the odd one down in the 6-7mm range because that's the only way to get it together without spending a huge amount of time redoing something. If you ever do happen to get some that are down in the 4-5mm or less range, and you are worried about it. It only takes a few seconds to drill another hole and pop another rivet in! I'm sure that every builder out there can point to all of the places on his plane where he has had to do this, but other than cosmetic reasons, there is no reason to worry about it. Same thing for minor surface scratches on the skin......if you can't catch your fingernail in it, don't worry about it. It's tough to do sometime, but just try not to worry about the little stuff, and move on with the project. Any mistakes you make now, will just be lessons for later. There is a reason they do the rudder first......it's not exatly a "structural" member of the airframe. Good luck, and welcome to the list! Randy XL, Corvair, just finishing up the wings. >From: "Dave VanLanen" >Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Zenith-List: Completed August Workshop >Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 16:45:40 -0500 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" > > >My two sons and I attended the August workshop, and came home with a >completed 601 XL rudder, and with the complete kit loaded in our van. As >many others on the list have noted, the workshop is definitely worth >attending. I learned a lot, including learnings from a couple of dumb >mistakes. My sons also thorougly enjoyed it, and are now committed to >helping me with the project. > >The only thing I am finding now is that I'm tending to obsess about whether >we did a good enough job on the construction. Must be my "type A" >personality. For example, I'm worrying about whether we got all our edge >distances good enough. Also, I forgot to explain to my son the correct way >to debur using the file, and he deburred some of the holes on the rear skin >by lightly filing at a 90 degree angle to the edge, leaving fine surface >scratches similar to roughing the surface with an abrasive pad. > >I'll need to get myself into the correct frame of mind or I'll never make >it >through the entire construction process if its going to worry me this much. >Is this normal, or is it just me? I'd like to think that the design leaves >some safety leeway for minor inconsistencies and errors, especially since >this is a learning process for us. I hope that's the case. > >Dave Van Lanen >Madison, WI >601XL - rudder completed > >Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 03:21:46 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Completed August Workshop --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Dave, welcome to the psycho biszaro world of experimental aircraft building. Well, after about 6 months of measuring, drilling, cutting, filing and obsessing over the least little dotted line you can barely see on one of ZAC's fine drawings and finding yourself awake at 1:00 a.m. wondering what it could mean and why it's taking so long for Monday morning to come around so you can call Nick or Roger to ask what it means, you will surely understand why I call it psycho. Yes, you to may well obsess a bit, but drinking beer helped me and the fine fellows on this Thread. I really envy you that your sons are a part of this journey with you. If I can be of any help please don't hesitate to contact me. What I don't know would fill volumes, but I know all the smart fellows who do know like Frank, and Jeff and Pete and Ron and others. Jump on in, the waters fine, Best regards, Bill of Georgia 601XL-3300w/DC ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 03:30:36 PM PST US From: "William J. Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lights update --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" Larry- I did some "Government Work" at work and ran off your journal on the laser jet, so now I won't have to bother you for things you've already stated. Reading the journal, it seems you spent forever getting the nose skin perfectly in line with the aluminum tip rib and then end the entry with "More trimming will have to be done to both sides". That "More trimming" is what I'm concerned about. I'm squared up with the aluminum tip rib now, but will have to trim another 1/4- 3/8 off the nose skin inboard to fit the geometry of the Zenith fiberglas tip. After going through 9 nose skins, I'd wind up in the loony bin if I screwed something up on the LAST CUT and had to bend another one! Bill do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lights update > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland > > Bill, > Again, with a piece of clear acetate film, you can ink mark trace the > edge of your trimmed wing and > by flipping it over to the other wing, see if that trim solution is > going to be symmetrical and suitable for the > other tip rib. Also, you might try marking the acetate first, over the > tip rib, slide it back an inch or so and > then mark the nose skin from it if it looks like a good fit. > > Larry > > William J. Naumuk wrote: > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" > > > >All- > > Spent an hour trying different things with the fiberglas tip rib. It IS > >"S" shaped, with the geometry moving inboard towards the root. > >"Overtrimming" the nose skin inboard to fit, rather than placing a shim > >under the light assembly seems to be the best fix. STOP ME IF YOU THINK I'M > >WRONG!! > > Bill > > do not archive > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 03:30:36 PM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Completed August Workshop --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Dave, Everyone suffers from what you're experiencing. It's like walking on eggs for the longest time until you get comfortable with the rules you're expected to build by. Don't hyperventilate, just have some coffee and a cookie and look twice at what you're doing and research the Archives. Lots of info here. Few things that can seriously foul you up if you work one problem at a time. Go slowly at first and wade carefully into it. If you screw up something, consider making the replacement part yourself. You'll save a lot of money and time. You're very lucky to have a couple of good extra hands with which to share your project. Try to kill the Type A personality, especially around your family. You all want to be friends when you're done. Nothing is perfect, so wait a while before deciding if you want to redo the rudder, etc. If you do, do it from plans. If you do find the necessity of remaking a part, visit my website and hopefully you'll end up only buying one total kit in the end. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive Dave VanLanen wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" > >My two sons and I attended the August workshop, and came home with a >completed 601 XL rudder, and with the complete kit loaded in our van. As >many others on the list have noted, the workshop is definitely worth >attending. I learned a lot, including learnings from a couple of dumb >mistakes. My sons also thorougly enjoyed it, and are now committed to >helping me with the project. > >The only thing I am finding now is that I'm tending to obsess about whether >we did a good enough job on the construction. Must be my "type A" >personality. For example, I'm worrying about whether we got all our edge >distances good enough. Also, I forgot to explain to my son the correct way >to debur using the file, and he deburred some of the holes on the rear skin >by lightly filing at a 90 degree angle to the edge, leaving fine surface >scratches similar to roughing the surface with an abrasive pad. > >I'll need to get myself into the correct frame of mind or I'll never make it >through the entire construction process if its going to worry me this much. >Is this normal, or is it just me? I'd like to think that the design leaves >some safety leeway for minor inconsistencies and errors, especially since >this is a learning process for us. I hope that's the case. > >Dave Van Lanen >Madison, WI >601XL - rudder completed > >Do not archive > > > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 03:34:40 PM PST US From: "William J. Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lighting,etc. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" Larry- Yeah, I saw that too, but figured it would work as well as hand bending .025 sheet around a piece of PVC, like they recommend a couple of pages later. Good to know it actually works. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lighting,etc. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland > > Bill, > I shouldn't have said "require", rather ZAC "provides" an illustrated > means of bending the stabilizer nose skin in the Zenair Construction > Manual on page 21. It describes use of a piece of plywood and a 18mm > stop strip, all on top of a table to prevent dings and uneven pressures > etc during the bend process. I used the method and it worked fine. You > might have to > go at it a couple of times to get the amount of bend you want, but > that's also better than over-bending. > The same principal is good for the rudder nose skin. I can scan that > page and send it to you if you don't have it, tho > it's nearly self explainatory. > > Larry > > William J. Naumuk wrote: > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" > > > >Larry- > > Out of curiosity, where in the heck did you find the bend instructions? > >I looked through every piece of Zenith literature I have and couldn't find > >anything. > > Bill > > > > do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 04:08:01 PM PST US From: "William J. Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Completed August Workshop --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" Dave- Everything's relative. You'll never attain perfection- and believe me, building an airplane will prove it. There will always be someone with a ride nicer than yours, but at the same time, yours will be nicer than others. Just finishing at all is an accomplishment that puts you ahead of 250 million other people in this country. In my modest opinion, if your primary goal is to build a SAFE plane, rather than a pretty one, you've got the right mindset. Besides, you already bought the kit. You're commited (And some say should be commited!) The only way it will appreciate monetarily is if you finish it and get some use from it. Wasn't that the plan in the beginning? It's too late now- fact facts. You no longer belong to the other 250 "Normal" people in this country- you're normal for a homebuilder! I wouldn't worry about the scratches- make your son rub them out! That'll give you free rein to screw something else up unimpeded. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave VanLanen" Subject: Zenith-List: Completed August Workshop > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" > > My two sons and I attended the August workshop, and came home with a > completed 601 XL rudder, and with the complete kit loaded in our van. As > many others on the list have noted, the workshop is definitely worth > attending. I learned a lot, including learnings from a couple of dumb > mistakes. My sons also thorougly enjoyed it, and are now committed to > helping me with the project. > > The only thing I am finding now is that I'm tending to obsess about whether > we did a good enough job on the construction. Must be my "type A" > personality. For example, I'm worrying about whether we got all our edge > distances good enough. Also, I forgot to explain to my son the correct way > to debur using the file, and he deburred some of the holes on the rear skin > by lightly filing at a 90 degree angle to the edge, leaving fine surface > scratches similar to roughing the surface with an abrasive pad. > > I'll need to get myself into the correct frame of mind or I'll never make it > through the entire construction process if its going to worry me this much. > Is this normal, or is it just me? I'd like to think that the design leaves > some safety leeway for minor inconsistencies and errors, especially since > this is a learning process for us. I hope that's the case. > > Dave Van Lanen > Madison, WI > 601XL - rudder completed > > Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:08 PM PST US From: Rich Dodson Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Completed August Workshop --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rich Dodson Dave, Congrats on getting the rudder done! I am going to the workshop in September with my father as one of those "makeup" father-son trips that we never took when I was a kid. Can I trouble you for two questions? - Do they give you any time to prime the interior rudder parts before you rivet them together? - Can they hold the rudder for you and ship it to you later (with the tail kit for instance?) Dad and I are both flying in and I would not exactly be able to take this thing back as luggage! Thanks for your help! Welcome to the party! I am building the 601XL because I need a little more utility than my Flybaby... Best Wishes, Rich soon to be 601XL rudder builder... ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:05 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Completed August Workshop --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Dave, One advise: We (My brother Larry, Carlos a building partner and Myself, Dad flew West a year and a half ago), are building our 2nd ZAC project,,, And already build two more plans built planes (not ZAC), in the past 12 years of fun. We learned to "respect" our mistakes :-) and we just redo what ever we damaged, fortunally only minor pieces, no mayor parts. Is part of the building fun and (later) laugh in the hangar talks... When our first mistakes (years ago) we got mad with us and sometime argue... a little. My Father used to say: If you get mad, you can eventualy divorce your Wife, but never part from your Brothers, your Sons or your Parents.., so lets just smile and redo... If you press to much (seen this a few times as a local Built Advisor) you will finish the project by yourself... Takes double or triple your time and is 2 or 3 times less the fun... Just built and fly Safe. By the way we learned and like to deburr using a larger bit... Saludos Gary Gower Guadalajara, Mexico. Dave VanLanen wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" My two sons and I attended the August workshop, and came home with a completed 601 XL rudder, and with the complete kit loaded in our van. As many others on the list have noted, the workshop is definitely worth attending. I learned a lot, including learnings from a couple of dumb mistakes. My sons also thorougly enjoyed it, and are now committed to helping me with the project. The only thing I am finding now is that I'm tending to obsess about whether we did a good enough job on the construction. Must be my "type A" personality. For example, I'm worrying about whether we got all our edge distances good enough. Also, I forgot to explain to my son the correct way to debur using the file, and he deburred some of the holes on the rear skin by lightly filing at a 90 degree angle to the edge, leaving fine surface scratches similar to roughing the surface with an abrasive pad. I'll need to get myself into the correct frame of mind or I'll never make it through the entire construction process if its going to worry me this much. Is this normal, or is it just me? I'd like to think that the design leaves some safety leeway for minor inconsistencies and errors, especially since this is a learning process for us. I hope that's the case. Dave Van Lanen Madison, WI 601XL - rudder completed Do not archive --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:05 PM PST US From: Mike Fortunato Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel sender placement --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fortunato >have four of them installed and have to deal with creating 4 bumpy covers on >top my wings. I'm surprised no others have chimed in with similar problem. >Am I the only sucker that stupidly installed the ZAC type on top? Nope, you're not the only one. If you check the archives, there's a hefty dose of me complaining about the same thing. No matter how much cutting & filing down the top center post of the senders, it simply would not fit under the skin. Perhaps the cork I used was thicker, or the tanks were a bit larger...who knows. I mounted the senders as far aft as I could, but it didn't matter. So, I cut holes in the top skin and will need to create a domed cap for those areas. Other listers helped by sending me info on how one might be able to press out a dome using a wood mold, but I have yet to try it. In the meantime, I've tried to casually look for some pre-made item that I could adapt, but nothing has popped up so far. Incidentally, although I'm not happy about having 4 bumps on the wings, I also wouldn't be that thrilled at mounting senders into the sides of the tanks, with constant fuel pressure against them. Seems to me a greater chance at developing leaks, plus servicing them would not be easy. Mike Fortunato 601XL ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:11 PM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Completed August Workshop --> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com Hello Rich: All the parts are primed before you get there so you will not have any opportunity to experience 'the joys of priming'; it's all layout, drill & assemble. Yes, they will hold the rudder for you and ship it with the tail kit. And, not to worry - they pack everything VERY well. When I received my wing kit the wonderful folks at Yellow Freight ran a forklift through one of the sides and nothing was damaged. I would love to hear the conversation at Security bringing an XL rudder on board as carry-on! Checked baggage? Not a chance! Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT 601xl N458XL (reserved) do not archive In a message dated 8/22/2005 7:54:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, r_dodson@yahoo.com writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rich Dodson Dave, Congrats on getting the rudder done! I am going to the workshop in September with my father as one of those "makeup" father-son trips that we never took when I was a kid. Can I trouble you for two questions? - Do they give you any time to prime the interior rudder parts before you rivet them together? - Can they hold the rudder for you and ship it to you later (with the tail kit for instance?) Dad and I are both flying in and I would not exactly be able to take this thing back as luggage! Thanks for your help! Welcome to the party! I am building the 601XL because I need a little more utility than my Flybaby... Best Wishes, Rich soon to be 601XL rudder builder... ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:06 PM PST US From: "Al Young" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel sender placement --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" Mike- I've been following the sender saga, and when I installed my tanks and senders, I had no trouble after I cut the post off and filed the large nut down . I then put two layers of black elec tape over the post. I also, added a access cover on top of the sender, and have had to remove the sender twice since, so was glad I did. Al Young 601XL- Re-building ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 07:31:27 PM PST US From: VideoFlyer@AOL.COM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: fuel sender placement --> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com Has onyone put the fuel sender in the end (rather than on the top) of the fuel tank as shown in the plans? And if so, has anyone had any problems with leaks. I did mine according to the instructions, but haven't tried putting fuel in yet. I'm hoping I did the right thing. Dave videoflyer@aol.com ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:30 PM PST US From: Rob Campbell <1global@adelphia.net> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: vor requirements for ifr --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rob Campbell <1global@adelphia.net> John, I am not a builder of any aircraft yet so I'm just lurking. In my lurking I came upon a good article about this. Here's the link: http://images.rvproject.com/IFR_Equipment.pdf I have been flying into LAX for the past 16 years as an airline pilot based there so I know of the persistent weather you are speaking of especially on approach in the afternoon when the sun is lowering in the western sky. I will be flying into Camarillo if I ever actually build an airplane and I have thought of this very subject. I'd really only be interested in building an aircraft capable of IFR flight because of the coastal weather here. I was recently flying a trip when a pilot of a single engine aircraft requested to pick up an IFR clearance. The controller responded asking him if the aircraft and pilot were both certified for IFR operations. I had never heard that before. The pilot answered in the affirmative and the clearance was issued. Food for thought. Be careful flying IFR in and out of the LA basin and stick to your personal minimums. Hope this helps. Rob On Aug 22, 2005, at 3:11 PM, john butterfield wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield > > > hi guys, > > i hope to finish my XL by october of this year. i > plan to use the corvair. I am planing my panel and > want to be able to fly light IFR I will fly out of > torrance, Ca and need to get through the light ceiling > around 2,000 feet, which usually is less than 500' > thick. > > my question is this. I will be using the dylon and > gps for my navigation. I understand that i must have > a vor receiver to be legal. Can I use the vor > contained in my handheld icom and be legal. I have > used it for navigation in the past, cumbersome but it > works. > > I would never use it if my dylon was not working, but > would like to avoid the traditional panel mounted > indicator and nav receiver. it really is a waste to > have a vor if it is never used. As for an emergency, > the vor in the handheld would suffice. > > I know this attitude seems a little cavalier, but i am > not trying to be funny, just don't want a standard vor > nav if i don't have to. > > I intend to have a tru track alt hold and a good gps > based auto pilot for navigation. > > john butterfield > 601XL > > > --- Zenith-List Digest Server > wrote: > > >> * >> >> ================================================== >> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive >> ================================================== >> >> Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can also be >> found in either of the >> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes >> the Digest formatted >> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features >> Hyperlinked Indexes >> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the >> plain ASCII version >> of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed with a >> generic text editor >> such as Notepad or with a web browser. >> >> HTML Version: >> >> >> >> > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List. > 2005-07-20.html > >> >> Text Version: >> >> >> >> > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List. > 2005-07-20.txt > >> >> >> ================================================ >> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive >> ================================================ >> >> >> >> >> Zenith-List Digest >> Archive >> --- >> Total Messages Posted Wed >> 07/20/05: 35 >> >> >> >> >> Today's Message Index: >> ---------------------- >> >> 1. 12:28 AM - Re: Re: Alex & the Rudder Factory >> (kevinbonds) >> 2. 03:21 AM - Zenith 601XL Flight Simulator >> (Jim Pellien) >> 3. 04:43 AM - Re: Zenith 601XL Flight Simulator >> (Paul Mulwitz) >> 4. 07:38 AM - Re: Oshkosh Lodging (B Johnson) >> 5. 08:32 AM - Rivet Tools (Alex Rodriguez, MD) >> 6. 09:02 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Graham Kirby) >> 7. 09:08 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Robert >> Schoenberger) >> 8. 09:15 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank >> George (Corvallis)) >> 9. 09:22 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Lance Gingell) >> 10. 09:49 AM - C-IDUS cross-country (Trevor >> Page) >> 11. 10:05 AM - Re: C-IDUS cross-country >> (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) >> 12. 10:07 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Paul Mulwitz) >> 13. 10:11 AM - Re: rivet tools (Zed Smith) >> 14. 10:31 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Kent Brown) >> 15. 10:36 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Kent Brown) >> 16. 11:09 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank >> George (Corvallis)) >> 17. 11:49 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Kent Brown) >> 18. 12:33 PM - Re: C-IDUS cross-country (Larry >> McFarland) >> 19. 12:40 PM - Re: Rivet Tools () >> 20. 12:53 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (jnbolding1) >> 21. 12:54 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Air vs. Electric >> Tools) (N5SL) >> 22. 01:08 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank >> George (Corvallis)) >> 23. 01:18 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Clyde Barcus) >> 24. 01:18 PM - pissshh-bonk (Zed Smith) >> 25. 01:23 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank >> George (Corvallis)) >> 26. 01:46 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank >> George (Corvallis)) >> 27. 01:47 PM - Re: Last Call For Builders dinner >> RSVP (N5SL) >> 28. 01:47 PM - Re: Last Call For Builders dinner >> RSVP (N5SL) >> 29. 01:50 PM - Re: [ Johann G. Johannsson ] >> (Tebenkof@aol.com) >> 30. 02:14 PM - Re: Rivet Tools >> (VideoFlyer@aol.com) >> 31. 03:55 PM - Re: Oshkosh Lodging (David >> Alberti) >> 32. 04:28 PM - Lodging (Neitzel) >> 33. 04:49 PM - Not Getting Daily Postings (Dave >> VanLanen) >> 34. 05:46 PM - Re: Oshkosh Lodging (WAYNE >> BEATTIE) >> 35. 07:58 PM - Re: Last Call For Builders dinner >> RSVP (Jim Pellien) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 1 >> _____________________________________ >> >> >> Time: 12:28:36 AM PST US >> From: "kevinbonds" >> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder >> Factory >> >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" >> >> >> >> Hey guys >> >> I'll be right back. I've got to run over to the >> pharmacist and have him read >> Alex's emails to me :) >> >> Kevin Bonds >> >> Nashville TN >> >> 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. >> >> Empennage done; working on wings and engine. >> >> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds >> >> >> do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Alex Rodriguez, MD [mailto:proteus@mac.com] >> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder >> Factory >> >> Hi Kevin, >> >> I guess my signature is just asking for trouble. :) >> >> I can tell this list is going to be great fun >> though. Take care, >> >> Alex >> >> On Jul 19, 2005, at 2:40 PM, kevinbonds wrote: >> >> >>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" >>> >>> >>> So that's Workshop . . . yes. Admit you are a >>> >> doctor or lawyer on >> >>> this list >>> . . .no. >>> >>> Kevin Bonds >>> >>> Nashville TN >>> >>> 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. >>> >>> Empennage done; working on wings and engine. >>> >>> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds >>> >>> >>> do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On >>> >> Behalf Of >> >>> VideoFlyer@aol.com >>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder >>> >> Factory >> >>> >>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: >>> >> VideoFlyer@aol.com >> >>> >>> Yes! Do the workshop! I highly recommend it. >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > === message truncated === > > ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 08:27:22 PM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: Re: fuel sender placement --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker Dave, I mounted my senders on the sides of my scratch built tanks as well. I liked the accessibility from the wing root. I did fill mine with gas and left for a weekend, checking several times a day, with no leaks. I tried moving the sender around by hand, and couldn't. I have not flown them yet, so I don't know what vibration will do, but with the thick rubber gasket provided, I think I will be O.K. I guess will both find out someday... -Other than possible leakage from the gasket, are there any other reasons to mount at the top? Just curious. R/ Brandon ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:20 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: vor requirements for ifr --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz Hi Rob, I enjoyed reading the article from the EAA your link referred to. I guess the real bottom line is to be legal for IFR a homebuilt must have a VOR receiver and a relatively complete gyro panel and should have a transponder and encoder. The installed equipment must be properly certified and tested but is not required to manufactured under TSO. All of that makes sense for me except for the gyro requirements. I never completed instrument training, but I had enough of it to know a full panel is definitely not required for normal IFR operations. My mean old instructor was constantly making me shoot pseudo-precision approaches with only needle, ball, and airspeed. (I say pseudo precision approaches because he always announced to the controllers we were doing a no gyro approach, meaning no DG.) The implication of all this is the full gyro panel requirement seems to be questionable. The other strange thought your post brought to my mind (or what is left of it) was the comment about the guy air-filing and having to say his plane and pilot were properly certified. I wonder what would have happened if he said no. (I also wonder what would happen if he lied.) As a non-rated pilot, I am always worried about getting caught and needing ATC assistance to get safely to the ground. This would often seem to require IFR flight, but admitting the mistake of getting caught on top or in IMC without a clearance is not something most of us would like to do. I would certainly appreciate your comments on this issue. I highly recommend the activity of amateur airplane building. It works wonderfully for me. I am retired and desperately needed something to do, and I am now faced with a year or two of intense project. For me, picking a design to build wound up being an exercise in learning what was most popular among home builders and selecting the performance I wanted. This was not hard since I am limiting myself to SLA and Sport Pilot limits so I don't have to fight with the FAA for a medical certificate. In your case, I highly recommend you consider carefully why you are building your own plane and select the design accordingly. I would be glad to help you through this maze if you are interested, but you could also do it yourself with enough time and effort spent. My only advantage is I have already done it a couple of times and know where to look for problems. Thanks again, Paul (Currently completed tail feathers for 601XL and waiting for arrival of wing kit) At 08:22 PM 8/22/2005, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rob Campbell <1global@adelphia.net> > >John, >I am not a builder of any aircraft yet so I'm just lurking. In my >lurking I came upon a good article about this. Here's the link: >http://images.rvproject.com/IFR_Equipment.pdf >I have been flying into LAX for the past 16 years as an airline pilot >based there so I know of the persistent weather you are speaking of >especially on approach in the afternoon when the sun is lowering in >the western sky. I will be flying into Camarillo if I ever actually >build an airplane and I have thought of this very subject. I'd >really only be interested in building an aircraft capable of IFR >flight because of the coastal weather here. I was recently flying a >trip when a pilot of a single engine aircraft requested to pick up an >IFR clearance. The controller responded asking him if the aircraft >and pilot were both certified for IFR operations. I had never heard >that before. The pilot answered in the affirmative and the clearance >was issued. Food for thought. Be careful flying IFR in and out of >the LA basin and stick to your personal minimums. >Hope this helps. >Rob > >On Aug 22, 2005, at 3:11 PM, john butterfield wrote: > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield > > > > > > hi guys, > > > > i hope to finish my XL by october of this year. i > > plan to use the corvair. I am planing my panel and > > want to be able to fly light IFR I will fly out of > > torrance, Ca and need to get through the light ceiling > > around 2,000 feet, which usually is less than 500' > > thick. > > > > my question is this. I will be using the dylon and > > gps for my navigation. I understand that i must have > > a vor receiver to be legal. Can I use the vor > > contained in my handheld icom and be legal. I have > > used it for navigation in the past, cumbersome but it > > works. > > > > I would never use it if my dylon was not working, but > > would like to avoid the traditional panel mounted > > indicator and nav receiver. it really is a waste to > > have a vor if it is never used. As for an emergency, > > the vor in the handheld would suffice. > > > > I know this attitude seems a little cavalier, but i am > > not trying to be funny, just don't want a standard vor > > nav if i don't have to. > > > > I intend to have a tru track alt hold and a good gps > > based auto pilot for navigation. > > > > john butterfield > > 601XL > > > > > > --- Zenith-List Digest Server > > wrote: > > > > > >> * > >> > >> ================================================== > >> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > >> ================================================== > >> > >> Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can also be > >> found in either of the > >> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes > >> the Digest formatted > >> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features > >> Hyperlinked Indexes > >> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the > >> plain ASCII version > >> of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed with a > >> generic text editor > >> such as Notepad or with a web browser. > >> > >> HTML Version: > >> > >> > >> > >> > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List. > > 2005-07-20.html > > > >> > >> Text Version: > >> > >> > >> > >> > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List. > > 2005-07-20.txt > > > >> > >> > >> ================================================ > >> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > >> ================================================ > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Zenith-List Digest > >> Archive > >> --- > >> Total Messages Posted Wed > >> 07/20/05: 35 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Today's Message Index: > >> ---------------------- > >> > >> 1. 12:28 AM - Re: Re: Alex & the Rudder Factory > >> (kevinbonds) > >> 2. 03:21 AM - Zenith 601XL Flight Simulator > >> (Jim Pellien) > >> 3. 04:43 AM - Re: Zenith 601XL Flight Simulator > >> (Paul Mulwitz) > >> 4. 07:38 AM - Re: Oshkosh Lodging (B Johnson) > >> 5. 08:32 AM - Rivet Tools (Alex Rodriguez, MD) > >> 6. 09:02 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Graham Kirby) > >> 7. 09:08 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Robert > >> Schoenberger) > >> 8. 09:15 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank > >> George (Corvallis)) > >> 9. 09:22 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Lance Gingell) > >> 10. 09:49 AM - C-IDUS cross-country (Trevor > >> Page) > >> 11. 10:05 AM - Re: C-IDUS cross-country > >> (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) > >> 12. 10:07 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Paul Mulwitz) > >> 13. 10:11 AM - Re: rivet tools (Zed Smith) > >> 14. 10:31 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Kent Brown) > >> 15. 10:36 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Kent Brown) > >> 16. 11:09 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank > >> George (Corvallis)) > >> 17. 11:49 AM - Re: Rivet Tools (Kent Brown) > >> 18. 12:33 PM - Re: C-IDUS cross-country (Larry > >> McFarland) > >> 19. 12:40 PM - Re: Rivet Tools () > >> 20. 12:53 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (jnbolding1) > >> 21. 12:54 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Air vs. Electric > >> Tools) (N5SL) > >> 22. 01:08 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank > >> George (Corvallis)) > >> 23. 01:18 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Clyde Barcus) > >> 24. 01:18 PM - pissshh-bonk (Zed Smith) > >> 25. 01:23 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank > >> George (Corvallis)) > >> 26. 01:46 PM - Re: Rivet Tools (Hinde, Frank > >> George (Corvallis)) > >> 27. 01:47 PM - Re: Last Call For Builders dinner > >> RSVP (N5SL) > >> 28. 01:47 PM - Re: Last Call For Builders dinner > >> RSVP (N5SL) > >> 29. 01:50 PM - Re: [ Johann G. Johannsson ] > >> (Tebenkof@aol.com) > >> 30. 02:14 PM - Re: Rivet Tools > >> (VideoFlyer@aol.com) > >> 31. 03:55 PM - Re: Oshkosh Lodging (David > >> Alberti) > >> 32. 04:28 PM - Lodging (Neitzel) > >> 33. 04:49 PM - Not Getting Daily Postings (Dave > >> VanLanen) > >> 34. 05:46 PM - Re: Oshkosh Lodging (WAYNE > >> BEATTIE) > >> 35. 07:58 PM - Re: Last Call For Builders dinner > >> RSVP (Jim Pellien) > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ Message 1 > >> _____________________________________ > >> > >> > >> Time: 12:28:36 AM PST US > >> From: "kevinbonds" > >> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder > >> Factory > >> > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" > >> > >> > >> > >> Hey guys > >> > >> I'll be right back. I've got to run over to the > >> pharmacist and have him read > >> Alex's emails to me :) > >> > >> Kevin Bonds > >> > >> Nashville TN > >> > >> 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. > >> > >> Empennage done; working on wings and engine. > >> > >> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds > >> > >> > >> do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Alex Rodriguez, MD [mailto:proteus@mac.com] > >> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder > >> Factory > >> > >> Hi Kevin, > >> > >> I guess my signature is just asking for trouble. :) > >> > >> I can tell this list is going to be great fun > >> though. Take care, > >> > >> Alex > >> > >> On Jul 19, 2005, at 2:40 PM, kevinbonds wrote: > >> > >> > >>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" > >>> > >>> > >>> So that's Workshop . . . yes. Admit you are a > >>> > >> doctor or lawyer on > >> > >>> this list > >>> . . .no. > >>> > >>> Kevin Bonds > >>> > >>> Nashville TN > >>> > >>> 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. > >>> > >>> Empennage done; working on wings and engine. > >>> > >>> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds > >>> > >>> > >>> do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > >>> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On > >>> > >> Behalf Of > >> > >>> VideoFlyer@aol.com > >>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com > >>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Alex & the Rudder > >>> > >> Factory > >> > >>> > >>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: > >>> > >> VideoFlyer@aol.com > >> > >>> > >>> Yes! Do the workshop! I highly recommend it. > >>> > >>> Dave > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > === message truncated === > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 ---------------------------------------------