Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:55 AM - Jabriu 3300A/601XL - Running Fuel Tank Dry ()
2. 07:08 AM - Jab 3300 carb issues (charles.long@gm.com)
3. 07:38 AM - Re: Battery access door on 601XL (Jeffrey J Paris)
4. 07:46 AM - Re: Jabriu 3300A/601XL - Running Fuel Tank Dry (Pete Krotje)
5. 07:58 AM - Re: Weight and Balance (Jeffrey J Paris)
6. 08:10 AM - Re: Jab 3300 carb issues (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
7. 08:54 AM - (Stanley Challgren)
8. 08:59 AM - Re: Re: Weight and Balance (jim)
9. 09:43 AM - Re: 701 (Zed Smith)
10. 09:52 AM - Re: 701 folding wings (Zed Smith)
11. 10:24 AM - Re: Kit parts quality. (Mike Fortunato)
12. 10:33 AM - Folding wings (Robert Schoenberger)
13. 10:38 AM - Re: New Engine (Larry)
14. 10:47 AM - Re: fiberglass wingtips (Mike Fortunato)
15. 10:54 AM - Re: fiberglas wingtips (John)
16. 10:55 AM - Re: Re: 701 folding wings (ROBERT SCEPPA)
17. 11:15 AM - Re: Kit parts quality. (Paul Mulwitz)
18. 11:35 AM - 701 clarification (Zed Smith)
19. 11:36 AM - Re: Kit parts quality. (Ihab Awad)
20. 11:52 AM - Re: Re: fiberglas wingtips (kevinbonds)
21. 12:07 PM - Re: fiberglass wingtips (Paul Mulwitz)
22. 12:14 PM - Re: Re: 701 folding wings (Hal Rozema)
23. 12:53 PM - Re: Re: fiberglass wingtips (Bryan Martin)
24. 01:22 PM - Kit Part Quality (Clyde Barcus)
25. 01:23 PM - Re: fiberglass wingtips (Mike Fortunato)
26. 01:32 PM - 701 Folding Wings Kit (Stanley Challgren)
27. 01:48 PM - wing tips (john butterfield)
28. 02:42 PM - Re: Re: fiberglas wingtips (Gary Gower)
29. 03:07 PM - Wing fiberglass tips.... Complain... NOT Zenith related, (Gary Gower)
30. 03:39 PM - Re: 701 Folding Wings Kit (Leo Corbalis)
31. 03:55 PM - Re: wing tips (William J. Naumuk)
32. 05:07 PM - Re: 701 Folding Wings Kit (Hal Rozema)
33. 05:10 PM - Fresh wing tips (William J. Naumuk)
34. 05:39 PM - Re: wing tips (Paul Mulwitz)
35. 06:57 PM - Wingtips_2 (William J. Naumuk)
36. 07:42 PM - Re: Folding wings (NYTerminat@aol.com)
37. 07:44 PM - Re: New Engine (NYTerminat@aol.com)
38. 07:49 PM - Re: Re: fiberglas wingtips (NYTerminat@aol.com)
39. 10:23 PM - Re: Re: fiberglas wingtips (Brandon Tucker)
40. 11:05 PM - Re: New Engine (John Adamson)
41. 11:26 PM - Re: New Engine (Jim and Lucy)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Jabriu 3300A/601XL - Running Fuel Tank Dry |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <tonyplane@bellsouth.net>
Has anyone ran their Jab 3300/601XL to fuel exhaustion (deliberately or by accident)
on a tank? If so, what were the indications, if any, of impending power
loss. Did prop windmill? What "restart" procedures were used ? My XL has
4 tanks and I assume that I will one day run dry on a tank. As the Jab is a quick
starting smooth running engine, I do not expect any problems with restart,
but .....
Thanks,
Tony Graziano, Buchanan, Tn
N493TG, 60lXL ser 6-5342,
18 hours, 18 Flights into Phase I Test flying and enjoying every minute. Have
flown gross wt at Aft CG and Fwd CG. Stalls benign. Max altitude flown 10k
ft - minus 1 ft (Alt ncdr yet to be certified), preliminary Vx, Vy; speed checks;
AP checks, etc
Message 2
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| Subject: | Jab 3300 carb issues |
08/26/2005 10:03:57 AM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com
I agree with Pete, you could very well have issues with the flow of
air into the carb. On my 3300, I have EGTbalance issues at full throttle
(200 F difference between left and right bank). At cruise power, the EGTs
balance out very well. I have just rotated the carb 10 degrees and next
time I fly, will see if it helps (Carb bottom towards high EGT bank of
cylinders). My installation uses a fairly tight 90 degree bend air intake
just before the entrance into the carb. Lot's of turbulence, especially at
full throttle (max airflow). On wind tunnels, they use straightening vanes
to achieve uniform flow, but no room for those in our installation. Have
you modified the entrance geometry when you went to the new filter setup?
Chuck Long
N601LE, 20 hr TT
Time: 07:10:25 AM PST US
From: "Pete Krotje" <pkrotje@athenet.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL 3300 Carburetor Trouble
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pete Krotje" <pkrotje@athenet.net>
Bill,
I don't think the carb is the problem but more likely the airflow into it
is
not smooth enough to allow the mixture compensation to work the right way.
How about sending me some photos of the airbox installation with the SCAT
ducting shown from airbox to carb.
Pete
Message 3
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| Subject: | Battery access door on 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey J Paris" <jeffrey-j-paris@excite.com>
Brian,
I put the battery access door and panel in and I'm glad I did. Although I am not
using the space for a battery as in a 0-235 engine installation (I'm using
the Jabiru 3300), I used the space to mount my ELT. In addition the access door
will afford you a good look into the upper aft section of the aircrat for inspection
purposes and I can keep an eye on the plastic bearing material for the
elevator cable. As my tech counselor sayus you can never have a enough access/inspection
holes to service your plane in the future.
I'm glad I did it.
Regards,
Jeff Paris
N196ZP CH601XL Jab3300 Will attempt first engine start today!
--- On Thu 08/25, Brian Briggerman < blb7037@cox.net > wrote:
From: Brian Briggerman [mailto: blb7037@cox.net]
Subject: Zenith-List: Battery access door on 601XL
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brian Briggerman" <blb7037@cox.net>
I am putting together the rear fuselage side skins and don't see any access to
the fuselage after the plane is built. I don't have the big door underneath shown
in the latest release and was an option on my kit that I did not know about.
I am thinking of putting in the O-235 battery access door to have at least
some access to the rear fuselage. I don't think I will have to put the battery
back there as I am going with an O-200 and think it will allow the battery up
front. I don't know if it would do any good.
Does anyone have any suggestions on this? Do I need access back there and if I
do, will the battery door be enough or do I need the big bottom door?
Brian Briggerman
as the Subscriptions page,
Message 4
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| Subject: | Jabriu 3300A/601XL - Running Fuel Tank Dry |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pete Krotje" <pkrotje@athenet.net>
Tony,
We have run a tank dry many times in our cross country flights - most times
we were timing how long it took to empty a tank (3 hours 40 minutes on the
Jabiru J250) but sometimes we just forgot to switch to the other wing. The
prop will windmill above 60 knots. Just turning on the other tank resulted
in an instant start every time.
On one occasion I wanted to see what would happen if prop stopped do I
pulled it into a stall. After prop stopped windmilling it was obvious I had
a better glide ratio. Just a brief touch of the starter resulted in another
instant start.
If the engine is off for an extended glide (for what reason I don't know)
the intake pipes may cool and choke may be required for a quick start.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
tonyplane@bellsouth.net
Subject: Zenith-List: Jabriu 3300A/601XL - Running Fuel Tank Dry
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <tonyplane@bellsouth.net>
Has anyone ran their Jab 3300/601XL to fuel exhaustion (deliberately or by
accident) on a tank? If so, what were the indications, if any, of impending
power loss. Did prop windmill? What "restart" procedures were used ? My
XL has 4 tanks and I assume that I will one day run dry on a tank. As the
Jab is a quick starting smooth running engine, I do not expect any problems
with restart, but .....
Thanks,
Tony Graziano, Buchanan, Tn
N493TG, 60lXL ser 6-5342,
18 hours, 18 Flights into Phase I Test flying and enjoying every minute.
Have flown gross wt at Aft CG and Fwd CG. Stalls benign. Max altitude
flown 10k ft - minus 1 ft (Alt ncdr yet to be certified), preliminary Vx,
Vy; speed checks; AP checks, etc
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey J Paris" <jeffrey-j-paris@excite.com>
Dear Wizards of the list,
Just finished the empty weighing of my Aircraft 601 XL, Jabiru 3300 and it came
in at 790 pounds. I used a chapeter members race car scales ( very nice set-up)
My question is: In terms of my aircraft weight and for others out there is
this a typical number?
My airplane is totally primed inside and painted on the outside, Dynon EFIS D-10,
Radio, intercom, Transponder, 2 x 12 gal. tanks, trim options, all gauges are
"steam" and only my seats and floors are upholstered for what this information
is worth. I did my weight and balance and everthing seems to be right, however,
I will be meeting with my building "GURU" friend nest week to pour over
my calculations and to critically appraise my work in lieu of a pending visit
from the local DAR.
Would love to hear from anybody that has a thought or opinion in this matter. Thank
you for your time and consideration.
Jeff Paris
CH601XL Jabiru 3300 N196ZP 1490 total hours in the making and ready to move onto
the "flying phase" of this great adventure!
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Jab 3300 carb issues |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Chuck, the air hose bend may or may not be the problem, Remember, that the
engine smoothed out with carb heat applied and that air comes off the muff, into
the air filter and through the same air hose to the carb. Turbulence is
turbulence. I plan to fly again this weekend and continue the tests, but I am not
sure what I am looking for, Best regards, Bill
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren <challgren@mac.com>
List:
I am considering sale of our 601 HDS/Jab 3300 and building of a 701
with the objective of operating it out of my 8,000' msl pasture.
I have three questions: 1-Can one person fold and unfold the wings if
you have the Folding wings Kit?
2-How long does it take to
do the wing folding/unfolding?
3-Is it feasible to not do
the Folding Wings Kit and just take off the wings when you want to
put the 701 in the garage?
Stan
601 HDS/Jab 3300
180 hours
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jim" <jim@pellien.com>
Jeff,
I can tell you what the numbers are for my 601XL SLSA that has been completed,
weighed and tested in the Czech Republic.
Empty Weight = 736 lbs
Gross Weight = 1320 lbs
Useful Load = 584 lbs.
Useful Load with Full Fuel (30 gallons @ 6 lbs/gal=180 lbs) = 404 lbs
My aircraft has a GNC 250 GPS/COM, a GTX-327 Transponder and an intercom, dual
15 gallon fuel tanks, dual wing lockers and leather upholstery.
They sent me the weight and balance figures and it appears to be good to go for
any reasonable combination of passenger weight, fuel weight and baggage weight.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
jim@sportsplanes.com
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Jeffrey J Paris" <jeffrey-j-paris@excite.com>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey J Paris" <jeffrey-j-paris@excite.com>
>
>
>Dear Wizards of the list,
>
>Just finished the empty weighing of my Aircraft 601 XL, Jabiru 3300 and it came
in at 790 pounds. I used a chapeter members race car scales ( very nice set-up)
My question is: In terms of my aircraft weight and for others out there
is this a typical number?
>
>My airplane is totally primed inside and painted on the outside, Dynon EFIS D-10,
Radio, intercom, Transponder, 2 x 12 gal. tanks, trim options, all gauges
are "steam" and only my seats and floors are upholstered for what this information
is worth. I did my weight and balance and everthing seems to be right, however,
I will be meeting with my building "GURU" friend nest week to pour over
my calculations and to critically appraise my work in lieu of a pending visit
from the local DAR.
>
>Would love to hear from anybody that has a thought or opinion in this matter.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
>
>Jeff Paris
>
>CH601XL Jabiru 3300 N196ZP 1490 total hours in the making and ready to move onto
the "flying phase" of this great adventure!
>
>
Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT
Message 9
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 701 folding wings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
Stan,
There is NO such thing as "folding wings" on the 701. That's a marketing ploy.
There is a method of "dismantling" a 701 by removing the wings.
The process requires the labors of an entire platoon of helpers, takes better part
of a day, and the Sun shall have set thrice before ye shall fly again.
Forget it.....build a shed of appropriate width.
Others may differ.....the other thing everybody has is an opinion.
So begins the Argument of the Week.
Regard,
Zed/701/R912/90.x%
do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Kit parts quality. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fortunato <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
> Have you ever wondered, Mike, why it is that you are
taking so long to finish your plane when many other
people have done the same thing in a small
> fraction of the time?
Alright wise guy. Making it personal? Fine, have at
it. You don't know a damn thing about my life, and if
you did, you'd see how blatantly ignorant that comment
is. But if it makes you feel better, have fun.
> I realize my point was a difficult one. That is why
> I said it several times. Still you got it completely
wrong.
Because oh great one Paul says so, then it must be
true. Nobody can have any differeing opinions. Let's
compare progress. Paul "barely started" as compared to
Mike "completed airframe". Who is in a better position
to comment on experiences?
> You seem to think Zenith is responsible for your
> airplane. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
Wrong. First of all, my comments were not directed at
ZAC exclusively. They were directed at this biz in
general, as all manufacturers seem to have the same
shortcomings. But when I buy parts, I do expect them
to be of a certain quality. In other words, get what
you pay for. If I wanted to build or rebuild every
part, I would be a plans builder.
> I am sure you signed the agreement
> which clearly states they are not responsible.
> (Similar to the one you didn't want to accept from
Jabiru.) I suppose that was so long
> ago you forgot what it said.
No, smart alec, I didn't forget what it said. And it
has absolutely nothing to do with any of my comments.
Now we're talking about liability issues? How about we
start discussing who wins the next Superbowl, since
staying on topic seems to be a bit problematic for
you?
> I will give you credit for persistence. Most people
> with all the misunderstandings you seem to have
about building a plane would have quit a long time
ago.
I have no misunderstandings, but thanks for the
education professor. True, my impression of what it
takes to build a kit plane are quite different from
what I thought before I first started. And that's
primarily due to the advertisements and the way these
kits are marketed. But the sheep in this biz outnumber
the rest of us by a good margin, so I have no choice
but to bend over & accept it. But what I don't have to
do is put up with bashing from self-proclaimed
barely-started experts who feel that anyone's opinion
that differs from his own is wrong.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
do not archive
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
>
> Stan,
>
> There is NO such thing as "folding wings" on the 701. That's a marketing ploy.
Zed, I've got to differ on this one based on three things:
1. The info packet I received some 4 years ago lists a folding wing option for
$560 (retrofit).
2. There was a posting 2 or 3 years ago about the folding wings. One of the repliers
indicated that Chris said ZAC had only sold 16 (?) folding wing kits and
that only 2 (?) had been installed. He did not, as I recall, regard this as
a very viable option. Check the archives.
3. I remember seeing a picture of an RV towing a very long trailer with a 701,
its wings folded, in the front part of the trailer and a TR3 sports car tucked
under the high tail. I remember my wife remarking that "that's the best of
both worlds". Robert Schoenberger 701
Message 13
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
Next month it shall fly, and yes I like the building process. I hope I
like flying it as well as building it, if not then I will sell it and start
something new. Do not Archive.
Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
----- Original Message -----
From: <NYTerminat@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Engine
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 8/25/2005 10:47:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> lrm01@centurytel.net writes:
> www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
> Larry,
>
> You must really enjoy the building portion of your plane. Have you ever
flown
> it yet?
>
> Bob Spudis
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> --
>
>
--
Message 14
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| Subject: | fiberglass wingtips |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fortunato <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
> he had somehow built a fuselage for
> his XL before the plans were released
Not entirely true, but close. ZAC was indeed selling
component kits specifically for the XL before I
purchased. And their full color marketing campaign for
the XL (not the HD) was already in full swing.
> fuselage, which he did not want so he got rid of it
> to build the XL.
What I didn't want to do is build everything over
again. But that's water under the bridge -- I did, and
am far beyond that point.
> you should never buy the first year of anything
That part I will definitely agree to! Never again!
> Mike on the other hand has blamed the company
> for many woes. HE see's things differently
It's not only me Mark, but as I already admitted, I'm
in the minority. But I'm not alone, based on some of
the responses I've received off list. You know, I run
my own business, which is very successful -- but would
not be if my products and services had the same
inherent flaws. But as I've said before, the companies
that participate in this industry are blessed by
customers who really don't care. Send out a wad of
aluminum, some drawings, and that's pretty much the
standard. Doesn't matter if the parts fit, or if the
plans are wrong, or if the builders manual doesn't
match either one.
> help to this list but your responses about ZAC are a
> tad inflammatory and are a personal opinion and
experence of very few.
Mark, your contribution has also been nothing less
than extraordinary. But I take exception to construing
my remarks as inflammatory against ZAC. When I buy
something and it isn't as advertsied, I have every
right to complain. I've said in the past that ZAC is
probably among the best of the group out there, but
demanding a little improvement should not be taken as
an assault. In fact, it should be embraced by the
company, if it results in improving its offerings.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
do not archive
>
>
> Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
> Zodiac 601XL , Osprey 2 serial # 751
> President: Kitchener/Waterloo RAA Chapter
> www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> --
> 8/24/2005
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: fiberglas wingtips |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John" <jlifer@bellsouth.net>
Well, I think I'll step into it... I've been mainly a plans builder that has purchased
pieces parts from ZAC rather than the whole kit or sections. So far,
everything has fit together ok. Having said that, I do think that ZAC has a responsibility
to supply parts that within some error factor are consistent and
correct to their plans. I do remember them supplying wing skins that were drilled
wrong along with other problems. Their consistency should get better if
they sell many of the Quick build kits as this will force them to insure that
the parts fit together prior to shipping. Things like ribs won't change unless
their form blocks are damaged and are incorrect when the rebuild them. Their
subcontractors should have parts checked to the print as required to insure
they are right to the plans. Yes, we do need to check what is supplied, but
I think most of us would expect that ZAC is supplying correct parts. Asbestos
suit on!
John
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: 701 folding wings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep@yahoo.com>
> Bob Sceppa <rjscep@yahoo.com>
> Why not just tie it down outside. I know another guy
> that painted his Savannah with Rustoleum. That paint
> is made for outdoor use.....
>
--- Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith
> <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
>
> Stan,
>
> There is NO such thing as "folding wings" on the
> 701. That's a marketing ploy.
> There is a method of "dismantling" a 701 by removing
> the wings.
> The process requires the labors of an entire platoon
> of helpers, takes better part of a day, and the Sun
> shall have set thrice before ye shall fly again.
> Forget it.....build a shed of appropriate width.
>
> Others may differ.....the other thing everybody has
> is an opinion.
>
> So begins the Argument of the Week.
>
> Regard,
>
> Zed/701/R912/90.x%
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Kit parts quality. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
>
>Alright wise guy. Making it personal? Fine, have at
>it.
Actually, Mike, you made it personal when you called my comments garbage.
If you want to revert to polite adult conversation that is fine with me.
Paul
XL barely started (but my second plane built from kit)
do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | 701 clarification |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
Yes, Robert.....
And I will gladly sell my factory "folding wing option" which lies un-used (and
shall remain so).
Point is, this is not "as advertised". You can't just tuck 'em in like retractable
gear. Nay, fun-lovers, it does require more than just pulling a pin. Then
there is the question of fuel.....will the politically correct left-leaning,
tree-hugging, non-flying, yuppie minders-of-everybody-elses-manners bunch allow
you to tip your wings up and drip gas on their Earth? Or in your garage? Nearly
US$3 per gallon makes nice grease removal fluid on your shop floor.
Boy....that should cut to the quick!
All seriousness aside, the 701 folding wing thing, after you've seen it, is not
what you'll end up doing.
Wing struts have to come off, if I remember; and rear spar attach point removed.....somebody
correct me here.
Looks good on paper, but a swing-wing its not.
Great weekend to all,
Zed
do not archive
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Kit parts quality. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ihab Awad <ihab.awad@gmail.com>
On 8/26/05, Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >Alright wise guy. Making it personal? Fine, have at it.
> Actually, Mike, you made it personal when you called my
> comments garbage.
For what it's worth, it was not a true _ad hominem_ since he referred
to the comments, not to you, but it was a logical fallacy, since it
was an appeal to emotion, _argumentum ad misericordiam_, specifically
to pride, _argumentum ad superbium_, or to hatred, _argumentum ad
odium_. See:
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/
Any rhetoricians out there care to correct my analysis? };->
Seriously, folks, here is some perspective -- please ignore if it's worthless.
Building an aircraft in your back yard is never, ever going to be a
good idea, no matter how you figure it. It's a constructive and
pleasant hobby and great fun and a lot better than a lot of other
stuff other folks do to pass the time, but sensible? I don't think so.
So, arguments about whose perspective on which kit builder makes more
sense in some grand manner, such as this one, are doomed to
non-progress. If you folks are both happy with your kits, what's to
argue about? If one or both aren't happy, then this list is here to
help with technical issues and encouragement for the greater good of
all who are building ZAC airplanes. If one or both of you is unhappy
with ZAC, it can be discussed, but please don't try to convince others
about whether the ZAC choice is a good or bad one. It's a choice among
many.
In an ideal world, there would be independent testing labs that would
order 5 copies of every aircraft kit out there, use an independent
panel of test homebuilders, collect data, and publish the results.
Cook's magazine can do this because they're out a few turkey legs and
some zucchini. Car and Driver can do this because people spend untold
billions on cars. But homebuilt kits are a sliver of the tip of the
iceberg in the global market, and they are expensive to buy and
construct, so, as I see it, such a lab is not forthcoming any time
soon.
You folks are *both* lucky to be building homebuilt aircraft. Maybe
one day I will join your ranks; for the time being, I just lurk on
this list. I sincerely hope my remarks have been constructive.
My sincere regards. Peace,
Ihab
--
Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: fiberglas wingtips |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
My wife was just reading over my shoulder and asked "who is this ZAC guy,
and why are you guys giving him such a hard time?" :)
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: fiberglas wingtips
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John" <jlifer@bellsouth.net>
Well, I think I'll step into it... I've been mainly a plans builder that has
purchased pieces parts from ZAC rather than the whole kit or sections. So
far, everything has fit together ok. Having said that, I do think that ZAC
has a responsibility to supply parts that within some error factor are
consistent and correct to their plans. I do remember them supplying wing
Message 21
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| Subject: | fiberglass wingtips |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
> But I take exception to construing
>my remarks as inflammatory against ZAC. When I buy
>something and it isn't as advertsied, I have every
>right to complain
-
I wonder if the advertising you received was significantly different
from the material I have seen. Nothing in the material I have seen
says all the parts will slide together flawlessly and you will not
have to do anything to assemble your plane except to tighten a few bolts.
I believe you came to the conclusion your efforts required to
complete your plane would be much less than your actual experience
has been. That doesn't necessarily mean it is ZACs fault for not
meeting your expectations.
In my experience, airplane kits (and kits in general) cover the
complete spectrum from completed structures that merely require a few
bolts to be tightened to raw material piles that represent only a
portion of the stuff you will need to complete the item. All of
these kits provide a "Value added" to the actual material costs since
the kit provider has hunted down the materials and selected those
materials he felt were appropriate for the project. This is not as
big a deal on a sheet metal plane as it is on a wood plane where the
wood quality is more of a value judgement than a specification. I
think the two important questions in this whole area are: 1. Did
the kit vendor provide sufficient value added to justify the price
paid, and 2. Is the effort required by the buyer appropriate to the
buyer's skills and expectations.
I do feel sorry for you in this whole area. I understand your
expectations have not been met. I do feel that your expectations are
consistent with some other types of business experiences, but not
appropriate in the arena of experimental airplane kits. I have heard
you express the notion that Zenith does indeed do a good job compared
to the other vendors in this business. That should tell you that
they do indeed do a good job and that your expectations might be a
bit off target. You must keep in mind that this is a very small
universe populated by buyers who tend to pinch pennies very hard. A
kit provider who built the kit to the level of quality you think is
required would have to charge prices that might eliminate most of
their potential customers.
In any future activities you might have (or other people with limited
experience in this particular arena) I hope you have learned you must
do more homework ("Due Diligence") in determining the level of
completion and quality of kit materials and workmanship.
Good luck,
Paul
XL barely started
do not archive
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: 701 folding wings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Hal Rozema <hartist1@cox.net>
I'm nearly finished with my 701 (doing engine cowling)
Wings and struts attach to fuselage with 4 bolts each side. I'm using
quick connects for all fuel and wiring . Connectors located just inside
above the door, behind a snap in panel. Struts remain attached to wings
and the wings can set on their slat in a cushioned cradle
So you can store in a fairly small building provided you have enough
height to clear the tail. 701s are tall airplanes.
If you scale the Zenith drawing of the folding wing option you will
find that folded, you have an object that is 11 or 12 feet tall,
relatively flat. Think. If one was going to tow on a trailer, you've
got a sail 22 feet long sticking 12 feet plus in the air, only weighing
600 pounds. Forgetting what wind would do, a passing semi (18 wheeler)
would ruin your afternoon and a couple years work.
MTFWIW
Hal
see ThePlaneFolks.Net/ construction Gallery
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: fiberglass wingtips |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
I suspect that most of the fiberglass parts would fit just fine if you took
them right out of the molds and installed them right away. But after several
months or years sitting on a shelf or in a box somewhere in a garage, they
tend to deform from their original shape. These fairings are made very light
since they are non-structural. It isn't too hard to understand why they
might need some readjustment to fit properly.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Kit Part Quality |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus" <barcusc@comcast.net>
First, before anyone gets riled up. I believe ZAC is a good company and the 601XL
is a great little plane, that said, I also believe they could improve with
a little more effort put into a continuous improvement plan. I also think discussions
of problems with parts supplied is a good thing when personal attacks
and emotion are left out in favor of open discussion. I have had problems with
parts supplied that were way out of tolerance, the predrilled holes in the wing
skins were out on the inboard side of 3mm and the outboard side of 5 1/2mm.
After a brief discussion with Nick he agreed to send new ones at no charge. Another
problem was the stabilizer, I noticed after assembly that it was not consistent
end to end, it turns out the ribs ( 6T1-2 ) were not the same length.
The rear channel ( 6W7-1) was undersize, anyhow I think that's enough to make
a point on parts they supply. The other issue is the prints, there is a lot that
could be done that would help to make things more clear and one would not
have to spent so much time double checking.
Bottom line, as one who makes a living in the tool & die business, I did expect
more. I have accepted the fact that it is not as clear and accurate as I think
it should be but I will say I have never had a problem getting an answer to
my questions and seldom had to wait more than a few minutes. I will give them
very high marks in this area but after watching this list for some time I know
they are answering some of the same questions over and over again. I am surprised
they do not look at all the time it takes to answer the same questions and
look for ways to eliminate it, seems to me that would eventually help them to
become a great company rather than just a good one.
I plan on contacting ZAC after my plane is finished with suggestions from a layman's
point of view on how to help those of us who have had problems. Not from
a design point of view, ( I am not capable of that) but from a perspective of
what caused me problems, delays, scrap, whatever. I believe if enough of us expressed
our opinions in a constructive way it might make a difference and help
future builders.
On another note, I think some of you let your emotions get out of control and personal
attacks accomplish nothing. We are all pursuing the same dream, it should
be fun.
Clyde Barcus
601 XL, Corvair Builder
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 25
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| Subject: | fiberglass wingtips |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fortunato <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
> That doesn't necessarily mean it is ZACs
> fault for not meeting your expectations.
> I hope you have learned you must do more homework
("Due > Diligence")
I promise not to continue this thread beyond this
email.
Meeting my expectations is simply to provide what is
advertised. And I can't begin to tell you how many
do-overs & mistakes were caused by parts not made to
match the plans, or in many instances plans that were
downright incorrect. Much of that has since been fixed
-- which is why you probably have a vastly different
opinion on the quality of the kit & drawings.
The Zodiacs have always been targeted towards the
first time builder, no experience or special skills
necessary, etc. In my opinion, that means there should
be a certain level of confidence that the parts you're
being supplied, or the plans you are reading, are
correct.
As for due diligence, I'm quite familiar with the
term, and did quite a bit of research before buying
the kit. Part was to purchase the rudder introductory
kit, which of course was misleading since that part of
the plane was FAR more refined than the rest of the
kit. Intentionally misleading? Probably not, but
misleading nonetheless. I even subscribed to this list
prior to making the decision to build, and I hope
other potential builders do the same. And if they do,
they'll get both sides of the story from which to make
their decisions (including my comments). Everyone
should be aware of the problems -- not just the happy
stuff -- so that the due dilligence is meaningful, and
they can make an unbiased, rational, informed
decision.
Mike Fortunato
Message 26
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| Subject: | 701 Folding Wings Kit |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren <challgren@mac.com>
List:
I really appreciate the comments I have received on the Folding Wings
Kit. As a result I have decided to forego the option. I believe I
remember the 701 guru at Zenith tell me something about the problem
with wing folding when I flew with him in the 701.
Max said:
"ZAW does not actively promote this kit. I think that
they even are embarrassed about it. It is not functional
like the Kitfox kit. It is more simple to just remove
the 701 wings. This can be done in less than an hour
even alone if you have quick connections for fuel and
wires and have made some stands for the wings. With two
persons it is still faster. Anyhow this is not a day to day
option, but it is well suited for longer storage periods."
It takes me an hour to get to the airport now so if it takes me an
hour to put the wings on I would be even and not have spent +$ on gas
to get there. If I get to the point of needing wing stands I will
inquire about them then. I appreciate your response Max.
Hal said:
"Wings and struts attach to fuselage with 4 bolts each side. I'm using
quick connects for all fuel and wiring . Connectors located just inside
above the door, behind a snap in panel. Struts remain attached to wings
and the wings can set on their slat in a cushioned cradle
So you can store in a fairly small building provided you have enough
height to clear the tail. 701s are tall airplanes."
Sounds good Hal. My garage is the standard 8' high but I believe I
can raise the nose gear to get the tail low enough to clear the
garage door opening. If this will not work, please let me know.
I appreciate all the help on this matter.
Stan
Message 27
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
Thanks for the info on the wing tips.
after reading the responses, i took my tip and placed
in on the outboard surfaces and it really fit well and
would be a piece of cake to install it that way.
to me it does not even look bad. i wonder if it would
have an adverse effect on the actual performance.
Even if some people would accuse me of being a little
sloppy, i could easily accept the different look, and
install them that way.
in addition, i would use screws and be able to access
that part of the wing in the future
what do you all think, more importantly, will it
adversely effect the performance of the wing.
john butterfield
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: fiberglas wingtips |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
One thing that I can tell , first hand experience, is this:
Fortunatly building our first kit we didint made any "big" mistake that needed
large parts to replace. But we did a mistake: in part 7-H2-7 The rear support
of the stabilizer, we drilled the holes for the hindge in the wrong side (like
a mirror), so we ordered anther one,
Sending parts though customs here is a mess of paperwork, so the good thing
was that another persons kit was going to be shipped here to Mexico, They just
put the part inside the kit free of charge... Was my fault, no need for them
to send it free.
I have heard since I am on the list of other builders that have recieved very good
service from them also.
I am sure something is already going, respect the fiberglass wing tips.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
John <jlifer@bellsouth.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John"
Well, I think I'll step into it... I've been mainly a plans builder that has purchased
pieces parts from ZAC rather than the whole kit or sections. So far, everything
has fit together ok. Having said that, I do think that ZAC has a responsibility
to supply parts that within some error factor are consistent and correct
to their plans. I do remember them supplying wing skins that were drilled
wrong along with other problems. Their consistency should get better if they
sell many of the Quick build kits as this will force them to insure that the
parts fit together prior to shipping. Things like ribs won't change unless their
form blocks are damaged and are incorrect when the rebuild them. Their subcontractors
should have parts checked to the print as required to insure they
are right to the plans. Yes, we do need to check what is supplied, but I think
most of us would expect that ZAC is supplying correct parts. Asbestos suit on!
John
Message 29
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| Subject: | Wing fiberglass tips.... Complain... NOT Zenith related, |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Hello List Friends,
Is not ZAC airplanes related so you can delete if you want to. I just remember
it.
This is something that happened here in the little town of Chapala, where I fly.
Lots of Americans and Canadians retired people live here, There was a street
crossing from the road of Ajijic that was getting more cars everyday, mostly
in weekends because lots of people come to visit.
The local Government finally decided that a Red light was needed (the first one
in town).
When they started with the works, an American Lady came over to the Mayor to complain
about the light (I was visiting my friend the Mayor that day).
We asked her if she tought that the light was not needed!! She said "Off course!
We need it" "Just I wanted to be the first one to complain".
We really laughed to our tears, and 10 years later we still remember this...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Folding Wings Kit |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
I built in a folding wing option in my 601 HDS, with Chris's blessing of my
plans. I decided not to bother and pulled all the extra parts that I could.
It required unbolting the dihedral splices and a carrier for the wing. It
measured almost 8 ft. 6 in. the legal limit in California.
Leo Corbalis
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stanley Challgren" <challgren@mac.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Folding Wings Kit
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren <challgren@mac.com>
>
> List:
>
> I really appreciate the comments I have received on the Folding Wings
> Kit. As a result I have decided to forego the option. I believe I
> remember the 701 guru at Zenith tell me something about the problem
> with wing folding when I flew with him in the 701.
>
> Max said:
> "ZAW does not actively promote this kit. I think that
> they even are embarrassed about it. It is not functional
> like the Kitfox kit. It is more simple to just remove
> the 701 wings. This can be done in less than an hour
> even alone if you have quick connections for fuel and
> wires and have made some stands for the wings. With two
> persons it is still faster. Anyhow this is not a day to day
> option, but it is well suited for longer storage periods."
>
> It takes me an hour to get to the airport now so if it takes me an
> hour to put the wings on I would be even and not have spent +$ on gas
> to get there. If I get to the point of needing wing stands I will
> inquire about them then. I appreciate your response Max.
>
> Hal said:
> "Wings and struts attach to fuselage with 4 bolts each side. I'm using
> quick connects for all fuel and wiring . Connectors located just inside
> above the door, behind a snap in panel. Struts remain attached to wings
> and the wings can set on their slat in a cushioned cradle
> So you can store in a fairly small building provided you have enough
> height to clear the tail. 701s are tall airplanes."
>
> Sounds good Hal. My garage is the standard 8' high but I believe I
> can raise the nose gear to get the tail low enough to clear the
> garage door opening. If this will not work, please let me know.
>
> I appreciate all the help on this matter.
>
>
> Stan
>
>
>
Message 31
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
John-
Are you the guy that asked the question in the first place? If so,
here's my synopsis of the past umpteen e-mails on the subject:
My original theory was that the fiberglas warped with age. According to
the guy from Canada, it's quite probable. If that turns out to be root
cause, everything else is moot. It's not a subcontractor problem, it's a
shelf life problem. Zenith can verify the dimensionals of parts when they
come in, but they try to return to their natural state with time. Adding
more layers of glass may be the permanent solution, but with an unacceptable
weight penalty. There are three viable solutions. 1. Zenith can wait until
you say you're ready to install them, and ship you "Fresh" ones at that
time, or 2. Add a rework procedure into their builder's instructions. 3. The
list can figure out a rework procedure.
I heard back from Nick, but he just provided the XL plan page
installation reference. No mention of salvaging warped parts by heating
them.
UPS just delivered a (hopefully) "Fresh" fiberglas tip. I'll let
everyone know how it goes. Thank God I haven't trimmed the nose skin past
the 45 degree sight line yet. Still no harm, no foul at this point.
In the meantime, John, take it from an expert- don't deviate from the
plans unless you intend to add something. Installing the tip on the outside
will add drag, although putting it where it's supposed to be and adding a
pound of Bondo isn't right either. Whatever you do, DONT CUT ANY METAL!!
In my estimation, our time is better spent by everyone trying to
logically find a solution to a common problem.
Can any list people add to the possible "Heat" solution?
I'm going downstairs to the lab. Igor- grab that new tip rib and follow
master.........
Bill
Oops, sorry Jeff, I almost forgot..
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "john butterfield" <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: wing tips
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield
<jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
>
> Thanks for the info on the wing tips.
>
> after reading the responses, i took my tip and placed
> in on the outboard surfaces and it really fit well and
> would be a piece of cake to install it that way.
>
> to me it does not even look bad. i wonder if it would
> have an adverse effect on the actual performance.
> Even if some people would accuse me of being a little
> sloppy, i could easily accept the different look, and
> install them that way.
> in addition, i would use screws and be able to access
> that part of the wing in the future
>
> what do you all think, more importantly, will it
> adversely effect the performance of the wing.
>
> john butterfield
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Folding Wings Kit |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Hal Rozema <hartist1@cox.net>
Hi Stan:
I've seen a simple fix for the idea of raising the nose to get the tail
low enough to fit through a 7 foot doorway. The one I saw was in a
trailer and not for a Zenith but the idea would work really slick.
At the back of your garage (or front of a trailer) you place a light
weight channel with the web horizontal. For a 701 the channel web needs
to be about an inch wider than the front tire. Cut a slot in the
channel for the tire to ride into after you've gotten everything secured
and the location assured. Next, mount an ordinary boat trailer winch on
the upper end of the channel which has been secured at the proper slope
to get you tail clear. Run the control cord out side so you can "steer"
the loading operation. The winch does the work. Pulls the plane into
the garage and the nose gear up the ramp (channel) until the tire
settles in its slot. The winch will lock it there. To unload, release
the winch brake and use the control to stop any excessive roll out as
gravity slides your "baby" back outside.
Writer assumes no liability for dummies who try to winch launch the
wingless fuselage using the winch as a catapult. (giggle)
Hal
Stanley Challgren wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren <challgren@mac.com>
>
>List:
>
>I really appreciate the comments I have received on the Folding Wings
>Kit. As a result I have decided to forego the option. I believe I
>remember the 701 guru at Zenith tell me something about the problem
>with wing folding when I flew with him in the 701.
>
>Max said:
>"ZAW does not actively promote this kit. I think that
>they even are embarrassed about it. It is not functional
>like the Kitfox kit. It is more simple to just remove
>the 701 wings. This can be done in less than an hour
>even alone if you have quick connections for fuel and
>wires and have made some stands for the wings. With two
>persons it is still faster. Anyhow this is not a day to day
>option, but it is well suited for longer storage periods."
>
>It takes me an hour to get to the airport now so if it takes me an
>hour to put the wings on I would be even and not have spent +$ on gas
>to get there. If I get to the point of needing wing stands I will
>inquire about them then. I appreciate your response Max.
>
>Hal said:
>"Wings and struts attach to fuselage with 4 bolts each side. I'm using
>quick connects for all fuel and wiring . Connectors located just inside
>above the door, behind a snap in panel. Struts remain attached to wings
>and the wings can set on their slat in a cushioned cradle
>So you can store in a fairly small building provided you have enough
>height to clear the tail. 701s are tall airplanes."
>
>Sounds good Hal. My garage is the standard 8' high but I believe I
>can raise the nose gear to get the tail low enough to clear the
>garage door opening. If this will not work, please let me know.
>
>I appreciate all the help on this matter.
>
>
>Stan
>
>
>
>
Message 33
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
Hey, guys-
The "Fresh" tip is a winner. I just have it duct-taped in place, and don't
have more than 1/8" gap, only on maybe 2" of the bottom. Zero everywhere else.
That will draw out when I pull the rivets. < 5 degrees off from 90 degrees to
the spar.
Trying to figure out how to get even spacing on the holes working from the
nose skin back- want to do the fiberglas/metal tip junction last. < than 1/4"
metal to trim yet.
I'll still have a little gap at the top skin/fiberglas tip/aluminum tip seam,
but it won't take more than an ounce of DuraBond to make pretty.
If someone tells me how to do it, I'll send pictures.
Bill
do not archive
Message 34
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
> Can any list people add to the possible "Heat" solution?
Let me make a few comments. My experience here is with the
fiberglass stab tips, though, so I am not able to address the exact
problems with the wing tips.
First let me say I learned all I know about bending fiberglass by
reading articles on the EAA builder's web site. Along with that, I
tinkered in my shop until I felt I had done as much as I could. I
also ordered a book "Fiberglass & Composite Materials" and read some
of it to learn a bit more.
I believe shelf life of the fiberglass parts is only one of several
possible problems we face. Another one is the simple fact that we
each build a slightly different shape in our work and the fiberglass
parts from ZAC may not be correct for each custom plane. Of course
there is the possibility of a poor design or quality control in the
parts as well.
Fiberglass is mostly a plastic structure which is reinforced with
glass or other rigid fibers. It can easily be bent if the plastic is
heated to a warm enough temperature. This temperature seems to be
less than the boiling point of water, so dunking the part in boiling
water is one way to soften it enough to bend it. Another, perhaps
better, way to heat it is with a heat gun. I found in my shop that
the kind of heat gun that looks like a lady's hair dryer but gets a
lot hotter for stripping paint (which I just happened to have laying
around anyway) was the best tool for me to use. I tried the hot
water trick, but the parts cooled so fast when removed from the water
that it didn't work well for me.
When using a heat gun, it is important to keep from burning the
plastic. This can be done by constantly keeping the gun moving
rather than keeping it pointed at one place. If the plastic starts
turning brown or blistering you have gone a little too far. One
other little problem to avoid is burning your hands. A decent pair
of gloves is a prudent way to go.
After the plastic is heated you need to get it into the shape you
need by applying forces and holding it in the right shape. I have
found it is helpful to have small wooden forms to define the shape
you want. Sometimes, you can get the change you want just by pushing
the warm part against your wood workbench and holding it there for a
few seconds while the plastic cools. It might take a few tries, but
I prefer gentle nudging over using too much heat or force which can
destroy the part.
In the stab tip case I developed a problem with the bottom of the tip
becoming warped from all the bending I was doing on the curved
part. The material had to move somewhere when I bent it so the
bottom was not flat enough to mate nicely with the last metal
rib. To solve this problem, I made a flat plywood form roughly the
same shape as the end of the metal needed to fit with the fiberglass
part. I then mounted the fiberglass on the wood form and Cleco'd it
in place with the excess plastic hanging out over the flat plywood
surface. That allowed me to use one of those rotary grinders with an
aggressive wheel to remove the excess material hanging over the edge
of the wood. One note of caution here - the dust generated here is
the same stuff that kills coal miners - silica dust - from the glass
fibers being ground off. It is prudent to wear a good dust mask and
enough clothing to completely cover your skin so this nasty material
doesn't do any damage to you.
I guess that is all I can say for now. I hope someone finds it helpful
Paul
XL barely started.
-
Message 35
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
All-
Okay, I think I'm on a roll. Since I was so excited after duct-taping the part
up, I never ate dinner. Best thing for me to do is quit now and go at it tomorrow.
Two things-
1. I think Paul's on the right track. If you have to rework your fiberglas rib,
and you have your nose skin trimmed to the 45 degree aluminum rib/nose skin sight
clearance, trace the outside contour of the tip onto a piece of cardboard.
Then, trim inside your line, say an extra 5mm. Use it as a template to make
a plywood form- I don't even think you have to add negative draft for clearance.
You can then place your tip over this, heat with a heat gun, and wrap the flexible
plexiglas over the form. Should fit like a glove, wouldn't you say?
2. God, (1) sounds so logical, maybe that's what I'll do tomorrow! I don't care
if I DO have a new rib!!
See, I told you the best thing for me to do was quit while I was ahead! And to
think, I was all ready to trim the nose skin! I've got so many marks on the last
1/2", it looks like a spiderweb. BUT- all the metal's still there.
Wish me luck- I'll keep you posted.
Bill
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Folding wings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
I helped a builder put his wings on recently, He had the folding wing option
but transported the plane from his home to the airport without the wings
attached to the plane. Four bolts each wing, the electrical connector for each
wing
the pitot tube line and quick connect fuel lines. The control to the
flaperons are a sping loaded quick connect type. Three of us put the wings on
in less
than 1/2 hour. He had to then finish up torqing bolts ect.
I bought the folding wing option but I am not installing it. It would be very
difficlt to fold and unfold the wing by yourself and I figgured that when the
time comes to move the plane to the airport, I will attach the wings when I
get there.
If anyone wants to buy the option, I have one for sale.
Bob Spudis
CH701, 912S working on controls
Message 37
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
My hat is off to you. I hope you enjoy flying it and look forward to the
results with that Hog engine.
Bob Spudis
Do not archive
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: fiberglas wingtips |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
I agree that things that go out of the factory should fit. I have not had any
major problems so far but from what I understand ZAC has and will quickly
resolve any problems without a hassle.
Bob Spudis
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Re: fiberglas wingtips |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
Paul wrote:
>Let me make a few comments. My experience here is
with the
>fiberglass stab tips, though, so I am not able to
address the exact
>problems with the wing tips.
Enough said... See subject line.
Mike wrote:
>Paul "barely started" as compared to
>Mike "completed airframe". Who is in a better
position
>to comment on experiences?
Nicely put. Why is it that the guy that has
made the third most posts of all of us in the last
month (See author view) signs off as "Barely started?"
Maybe your "Barely started" project is going well
because Mike's trials as one of the first XL kit
builders fixed initial ZAC design mistakes. A "Thanks
Mike" would probably go over better than an insult.
-Sorry to sound like a dick, but maybe using the
keyboard to ask questions instead of answering ones
might be more effective until "Barely started" morphs
into something closer to "Airframe complete."
R/
Brandon Tucker
"Airframe complete"
mounting corvair this weekend...
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 40
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Received-SPF: none (smtp-relay.tamu.edu: domain of j-adamson@tamu.edu does not
designate permitted sender hosts)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: John Adamson <j-adamson@tamu.edu>
Larry ..
I'm really looking forward to hearing some "ride reports". I hadn't
really paid much attention to the "new engine" comments, knowing you had
had the Soob in it. But the HD engine .. now that's a different critter
altogether! If you stop & think about it, using the belt prop drive is
only the standard HD primary turned 90 degrees. The prop would put some
side loads on it that aren't an issue with it installed on a bike but,
in general, it doesn't seem like it should be too much of an engineering
hurdle to make the thing work for plane. Guess you'll be finding out.
Is that a dual plug setup on the "front" jug?
Anyway .. congrats. Nice looking rig.
**************************************************
John Adamson
j-adamson@tamu.edu
Larry wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
>
>Pictures of my new engine are now on my site.
>Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
>
>
>
>
Message 41
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@ciaccess.com>
At 02:02 AM 8/27/2005, you wrote:
>Is that a dual plug setup on the "front" jug?
>
>Anyway .. congrats. Nice looking rig.
>
>**************************************************
>John Adamson
>j-adamson@tamu.edu
The other thing that looks like a plug in the pic
is one of the head bolts.
jim pollard
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