Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:35 AM - Re: New Engine (Trevor Page)
2. 06:33 AM - Re: New Engine (Larry)
3. 06:33 AM - Re: New Engine (Larry)
4. 08:53 AM - Wing tip final (William J. Naumuk)
5. 09:32 AM - Re: Weight and Balance ()
6. 09:33 AM - Re: Weight and Balance ()
7. 09:38 AM - Re: New Engine (Monty Graves)
8. 09:39 AM - Re: Wing tip final (Robert Schoenberger)
9. 10:21 AM - I'm not going to get involved in this flame fest (Gig Giacona)
10. 01:42 PM - Re: I'm not going to get involved in this flame fest (Hal Rozema)
11. 02:36 PM - Wing tips addendum (William J. Naumuk)
12. 03:06 PM - Re: I'm not going to get involved in this flame fest (Jeff Davidson)
13. 04:53 PM - Re: New Engine (John Adamson)
14. 05:56 PM - Re: New Engine (Larry)
15. 05:56 PM - Re: New Engine (Larry)
16. 07:10 PM - Re: New Engine (Bill Stuart)
17. 07:36 PM - Re: I'm not going to get involved in this flame fest (rlendon@comcast.net)
18. 08:27 PM - battery location (Brett Hanley)
Message 1
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
Larry, that looks positively NASTY :)
Hope you have good results but I bet it would shake like crazy at
idle. I can just hear the sound of that,
"lump, ca-lump, lump, lump, ca-lump, ca-lump..." The only sound more
distinctive would be a diesel ;)
Hey, I can make a joke since my 912 is in for some gearbox service so
I know what shaking is like at idle...
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
22 hours
On Aug 25, 2005, at 10:42 PM, Larry wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
>
> Pictures of my new engine are now on my site.
> Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
>
>
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
No shake, this is a new counter balanced engine, runs as smooth as a Honda.
Check it out, it is a 88B bored to 95cid. The "B" stands for "Balanced".
The Harley engine that shakes is the older type, called a evo.
Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
----- Original Message -----
From: "Trevor Page" <webmaster@upac.ca>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Engine
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
>
> Larry, that looks positively NASTY :)
>
> Hope you have good results but I bet it would shake like crazy at
> idle. I can just hear the sound of that,
> "lump, ca-lump, lump, lump, ca-lump, ca-lump..." The only sound more
> distinctive would be a diesel ;)
>
> Hey, I can make a joke since my 912 is in for some gearbox service so
> I know what shaking is like at idle...
>
> Trev Page
> C-IDUS 601HD R912
> 22 hours
>
> On Aug 25, 2005, at 10:42 PM, Larry wrote:
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
> >
> > Pictures of my new engine are now on my site.
> > Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
>
--
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
I'm certainly not the first to put a HD on a plane. There are 8 or 9 from
Hog-Air flying now and another 8 in the works. I think there will be a lot
more. Especially, since Harley has introduced their counter balanced engine
the common known "shake" is gone. It's still a little heavy, mine is 203.
The torque is 114 ft lbs and horse power is 108. One of the most inviting
parts is that there are millions of Harley mechanics and parts stores
around. You can buy any and all parts you might need on-line at reasonable
prices. And it's a very simple reliable engine.
Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Adamson" <j-adamson@tamu.edu>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Engine
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: John Adamson <j-adamson@tamu.edu>
>
> Larry ..
> I'm really looking forward to hearing some "ride reports". I hadn't
> really paid much attention to the "new engine" comments, knowing you had
> had the Soob in it. But the HD engine .. now that's a different critter
> altogether! If you stop & think about it, using the belt prop drive is
> only the standard HD primary turned 90 degrees. The prop would put some
> side loads on it that aren't an issue with it installed on a bike but,
> in general, it doesn't seem like it should be too much of an engineering
> hurdle to make the thing work for plane. Guess you'll be finding out.
> Is that a dual plug setup on the "front" jug?
>
> Anyway .. congrats. Nice looking rig.
>
> **************************************************
> John Adamson
> j-adamson@tamu.edu
>
>
> Larry wrote:
>
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
> >
> >Pictures of my new engine are now on my site.
> >Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
>
--
Message 4
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
All-
The fiberglas tip's in as good as it ever will be. To sum up:
1. Since I had to build my own ribs, I used one of my existing plywood forms,
rather than cutting a new one. The warpage that seems to cause all the problems
is on the flat surface and the most outboard perimeter edge. I stuck my form
against the tip and looked for gaps, then heated that area with a tile-removing
heat gun, (Backside, so you won't char anything), pressed my form hard against
the part/workbench and counted to 60 before releasing. After 4 or 5 repetitions,
all looked straight. Cleaned all the previous marks off with solvent
and made a final mark.
2. Trimmed to the mark-only had to take off a sliver maybe 6" long on the bottom
and filed with a half-moon file. Made a rivet line mark using a 1" scrap
of L angle with a hole in it 10mm from the bend-hold the bend against the nose
skin edge, stick a Sharpie in the hole and run the tool down the edge.
3. Layed out 40mm pitch, marked with a "Clicker" center punch, drilled and
clecoed.
Results- zero clearance in the airfoil section. The area of the first rivet
after the spar on the top skin is bowed down about 1/16", yet the rest of the
perimeter is true. Figure I'll put a skim of DuraGlass on top of the fiberglas
rib to build it up.
Note on DuraGlass- this is the stuff that you use like Bondo, but sticks to
anything forever. It's a fiberglas resin with chopped up fiberglas strands mixed
in. On the plus side, you can't get the stuff off once properly applied with
a jackhammer. On the negative side, it's heavier than Bondo, sets up as quick
as Super Glue, doesn't sand well, and costs 3x as much as Bondo. Of course,
you don't want to use more than a dab here and there in a pinch.
The position light mounting area is < 5 degrees from 90 degrees to the spar-
parts of it right on the money . This is a thick section of the tip, so I doubt
heating will do you any good. Not much more than a small flat washer under
one of the position light mounting studs should true everything up.
That's it- over and out.
Bill
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <tonyplane@bellsouth.net>
Jeff,
Have fun with you new airplane. The first test flight is something you will always
remember.
Just some info on my Zodiac 601XL (N493TG) that may be of interest to you, and
some other readers.
Weight and Balance:
Empty weight: 799 lbs (all the below stuff adds up)
Empty CG location: 290 mm from Wing Leading Edge Datum
Factory Support from Zenith and Jabiru: OUTSTANDING!
First flight was on 6 July 05 after Airworthiness Cert received on 30 June 05
Airplane Equipped with: Jabriu 3300A Engine and Sensenich W64ZX51 Propeller. Cabin
Heat. Dual sticks. Dual Brakes. Aux Tanks. Wing lockers. Landing/taxi/position
lights and strobes. 6 inch wheels and brakes and 6x600 tires all around
with a CH801 nose fork to accommodate the larger nose wheel/tire (more drag,
but I wanted more footprint for soft field landings). Aileron and elevator trim
with Ray Allen collie hat stick grips. Blue Mountain EFIS Lite G3. Grand
Rapids EIS (Engine Instrumentation System). Trio Avionics EZ Pilot II single
axis autopilot, Garmin GPS-295 (removable, with airplane wiring/antenna). Narco
AT155 xpndr and AR850 Alt Ncdr. ICOM IC A200 transceiver. Ameri-King AK450
ELT (mounted in the aft fuselage behind the cover for battery access for the Lycoming).
Sigtronics Sport Pilot stereo Intercom. Backup steam gauge altimeter
and AS indicator. Upholstry and seats from the Aviation/auto parts/bedding
section of Wall-Mart. Internally ZnCr primed an
d Dupont Ful-Thane Urethane auto paint outside.
Build info:
Attended rudder workshop Oct 03.
Picked up complete kit at Zenith factory in Mo. on 7 Jan 04. I had Zenith package
the parts in their ship box. I figured it was cheap insurance, cheaper than
renting a van, and the parts were professionally packaged and protected. The
box fits in the bed of a Ford F-150, but I removed my bed liner before I went
for pick up. Inventory of parts revealed no parts missing except a few that
were on inventory sheet as back ordered and were later received from Zenith.
Started physical build on 14 Jan 04.
First taxi test on 24 June 05.
Logged build hours: Airframe: 792; Powerplant: 83; Other: 323; TOTAL 1218 hours
(Other includes wiring, instrumentation, systems, tooling, painting, etc)
-
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Weight and Balance
From: "Jeffrey J Paris" <jeffrey-j-paris@excite.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey J Paris" <jeffrey-j-paris@excite.
com>
Dear Wizards of the list,
Just finished the empty weighing of my Aircraft 601 XL, Jabiru 3300 and it came
in at 790 pounds. I used a chapeter members race car scales ( very nice set-up)
My question is: In terms of my aircraft weight and for others out there is
this a typical number?
My airplane is totally primed inside and painted on the outside, Dynon EFIS D-
10,
Radio, intercom, Transponder, 2 x 12 gal. tanks, trim options, all gauges are
"steam" and only my seats and floors are upholstered for what this information
is worth. I did my weight and balance and everthing seems to be right, however,
I will be meeting with my building "GURU" friend nest week to pour over
my calculations and to critically appraise my work in lieu of a pending visit
from the local DAR.
Would love to hear from anybody that has a thought or opinion in this matter.
Thank
you for your time and consideration.
Jeff Paris
CH601XL Jabiru 3300 N196ZP 1490 total hours in the making and ready to move onto
the "flying phase" of this great adventure!
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <tonyplane@bellsouth.net>
Jeff,
Have fun with you new airplane. The first test flight is something you will always
remember.
Just some info on my Zodiac 601XL (N493TG) that may be of interest to you, and
some other readers.
Weight and Balance:
Empty weight: 799 lbs (all the below stuff adds up)
Empty CG location: 290 mm from Wing Leading Edge Datum
Factory Support from Zenith and Jabiru: OUTSTANDING!
First flight was on 6 July 05 after Airworthiness Cert received on 30 June 05
Airplane Equipped with: Jabriu 3300A Engine and Sensenich W64ZX51 Propeller. Cabin
Heat. Dual sticks. Dual Brakes. Aux Tanks. Wing lockers. Landing/taxi/position
lights and strobes. 6 inch wheels and brakes and 6x600 tires all around
with a CH801 nose fork to accommodate the larger nose wheel/tire (more drag,
but I wanted more footprint for soft field landings). Aileron and elevator trim
with Ray Allen collie hat stick grips. Blue Mountain EFIS Lite G3. Grand
Rapids EIS (Engine Instrumentation System). Trio Avionics EZ Pilot II single
axis autopilot, Garmin GPS-295 (removable, with airplane wiring/antenna). Narco
AT155 xpndr and AR850 Alt Ncdr. ICOM IC A200 transceiver. Ameri-King AK450
ELT (mounted in the aft fuselage behind the cover for battery access for the Lycoming).
Sigtronics Sport Pilot stereo Intercom. Backup steam gauge altimeter
and AS indicator. Upholstry and seats from the Aviation/auto parts/bedding
section of Wall-Mart. Internally ZnCr primed an
d Dupont Ful-Thane Urethane auto paint outside.
Build info:
Attended rudder workshop Oct 03.
Picked up complete kit at Zenith factory in Mo. on 7 Jan 04. I had Zenith package
the parts in their ship box. I figured it was cheap insurance, cheaper than
renting a van, and the parts were professionally packaged and protected. The
box fits in the bed of a Ford F-150, but I removed my bed liner before I went
for pick up. Inventory of parts revealed no parts missing except a few that
were on inventory sheet as back ordered and were later received from Zenith.
Started physical build on 14 Jan 04.
First taxi test on 24 June 05.
Logged build hours: Airframe: 792; Powerplant: 83; Other: 323; TOTAL 1218 hours
(Other includes wiring, instrumentation, systems, tooling, painting, etc)
Tony Graziano
Buchanan, Tn
-
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Weight and Balance
From: "Jeffrey J Paris" <jeffrey-j-paris@excite.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey J Paris" <jeffrey-j-paris@excite.
com>
Dear Wizards of the list,
Just finished the empty weighing of my Aircraft 601 XL, Jabiru 3300 and it came
in at 790 pounds. I used a chapeter members race car scales ( very nice set-up)
My question is: In terms of my aircraft weight and for others out there is
this a typical number?
My airplane is totally primed inside and painted on the outside, Dynon EFIS D-
10,
Radio, intercom, Transponder, 2 x 12 gal. tanks, trim options, all gauges are
"steam" and only my seats and floors are upholstered for what this information
is worth. I did my weight and balance and everthing seems to be right, however,
I will be meeting with my building "GURU" friend nest week to pour over
my calculations and to critically appraise my work in lieu of a pending visit
from the local DAR.
Would love to hear from anybody that has a thought or opinion in this matter.
Thank
you for your time and consideration.
Jeff Paris
CH601XL Jabiru 3300 N196ZP 1490 total hours in the making and ready to move onto
the "flying phase" of this great adventure!
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
Larry,
What redrive ratio did you decide on using?
Your pictures show a 3 blade prop.
What make is it and what length?
Monty
At 08:30 AM 8/27/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
>
>I'm certainly not the first to put a HD on a plane. There are 8 or 9 from
>Hog-Air flying now and another 8 in the works. I think there will be a lot
>more. Especially, since Harley has introduced their counter balanced engine
>the common known "shake" is gone. It's still a little heavy, mine is 203.
>The torque is 114 ft lbs and horse power is 108. One of the most inviting
>parts is that there are millions of Harley mechanics and parts stores
>around. You can buy any and all parts you might need on-line at reasonable
>prices. And it's a very simple reliable engine.
>Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Wing tip final |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
Bill . . this should be archived. I suppose it will be with this reply.
Very good information. Wish I had know about heating the tips when I
installed mine. Robert Schoenberger 701
----- Original Message -----
From: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Wing tip final
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk"
> <billn@velocity.net>
>
> All-
> The fiberglas tip's in as good as it ever will be. To sum up:
> 1. Since I had to build my own ribs, I used one of my existing plywood
> forms, rather than cutting a new one. The warpage that seems to cause all
> the problems is on the flat surface and the most outboard perimeter edge.
> I stuck my form against the tip and looked for gaps, then heated that area
> with a tile-removing heat gun, (Backside, so you won't char anything),
> pressed my form hard against the part/workbench and counted to 60 before
> releasing. After 4 or 5 repetitions, all looked straight. Cleaned all the
> previous marks off with solvent and made a final mark.
> 2. Trimmed to the mark-only had to take off a sliver maybe 6" long on
> the bottom and filed with a half-moon file. Made a rivet line mark using a
> 1" scrap of L angle with a hole in it 10mm from the bend-hold the bend
> against the nose skin edge, stick a Sharpie in the hole and run the tool
> down the edge.
> 3. Layed out 40mm pitch, marked with a "Clicker" center punch, drilled
> and clecoed.
> Results- zero clearance in the airfoil section. The area of the first
> rivet after the spar on the top skin is bowed down about 1/16", yet the
> rest of the perimeter is true. Figure I'll put a skim of DuraGlass on top
> of the fiberglas rib to build it up.
> Note on DuraGlass- this is the stuff that you use like Bondo, but
> sticks to anything forever. It's a fiberglas resin with chopped up
> fiberglas strands mixed in. On the plus side, you can't get the stuff off
> once properly applied with a jackhammer. On the negative side, it's
> heavier than Bondo, sets up as quick as Super Glue, doesn't sand well, and
> costs 3x as much as Bondo. Of course, you don't want to use more than a
> dab here and there in a pinch.
> The position light mounting area is < 5 degrees from 90 degrees to the
> spar- parts of it right on the money . This is a thick section of the tip,
> so I doubt heating will do you any good. Not much more than a small flat
> washer under one of the position light mounting studs should true
> everything up.
> That's it- over and out.
>
> Bill
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | I'm not going to get involved in this flame fest |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
I'm not going to get involved in this flame fest.
I'm not going to get involved in this flame fest.
I'm not going to get involved in this flame fest.
Yeah, I am.
Does Zenith marketing make it look like it is going to be easier than it is
to build their planes?
Of course they do. All of the kit makers make it look easier than it is.
Just as all toilet bowl cleaner's advertising makes it look like your wife
will be cleaning the john in an evening gown.
But we, as adult's who grew up in an age of advertising, should have
developed a filter that allows us to decode a certain amount of this. Did i
beleive for a second that I would complete the 601XL in 300 hours. Hell no.
Take a look at this http://www.zenithair.com/kit-data/tools.htm. Could you
build their aircraft with JUST those tools? Maybe. Has anyone built a Zenith
plane with just those tools? No. Did I really think I would? No.
I really only have one major complant about Zenith.
1. The construction manual. It is very step by step on the tail and the
wings Once you get to the fuselage it makes some huge assumptions and skips
over or doesn't explane several steps.
Now Paul, your very new to building your plane and have only built what is
the most well explained part in the kit. I'd suggest you dial it back a
little.
GigG
Message 10
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JIM JABARU PACIFIC" <info@jabirupacific.com>
| Subject: | Re: I'm not going to get involved in this flame fest |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Hal Rozema <hartist1@cox.net>
Gentlemen:
I hate to put down all the gripes and sour grapes. My advise is "Get on
with building your plane, and shut up". (There's a great book just out
called "Shut up and Sing" but that's another matter)
I'm a very busy 75 year old architectural designer working 50 or more
hours a week. I built all the components of my 701 here in a downtown
Phoenix condominium. No prior aircraft building experience. Most was
build on out narrow back patio where we had to bring the wings indoors
into our living room to turn them end for end so I could finish the
other wing tip or wing root. I started in 2002 and according to my
meticulous record (Kitlog) I have just over 800 hours invested which
includes studying plans, and developing my own Fire Wall Forward
arrangement for a Jabiru 3300, and fitting electric flaps.
This is my tool list (* indicate Zenith listed categories)
*WORK BENCH two Home Depot party tables 30x72 fastened end to end and
leveled with old business cards.
CARPENTER'S LEVEL, 4 foot, I choose to use instead of the plumb bob
Zenith recommends
* METRIC TAPE MEASURE furnished by Zenith
* CLECO PLIERS from Zenith
*VISE-GRIP HAND CLAMPS I have 6 of different sizes now that i'm nearly done
*WRENCHES which I already had
*ALLEN SET which I already had
*SOCKET SET which I already had
*HAMMER AND MALLET which I already had
*ASSORTED SCREWDRIVERS AND PLIERS which I already had
*LEFT AND RIGHT METAL SHEARS from Zenith
*MANUAL RIVET PULLER from Zenith
I bought a big air compressor and pneumatic puller and sold it after
about 100 rivets.. too slow and noisy. I sold them.
*BATTERY DRILL and assorted drill bits from the Aviation Department at
Home Depot (Step drill is handy) Not smaller than 12V
*FILES small, double cut or mill plus a round chain file
*HACKSAW already had one but never used it (see Dremel Tool below)
DREMEL TOOL the smallest and cheapest. I've used about 100 cut off
discs, cuts a smoother line in aluminum than snips
RIV-NUTS AND 8-32 SCREWS for the FWF/ Engine/Cowling (Note, this is not
a Zenith package
SOLDERING IRON 4500W for electrical work, not part of the Zenith package
WIRE STRIPPER for electrical work, not part of the Zenith package
WIRE CONNECTOR CRIMPER for electrical work, not part of the Zenith
package (Suggest soldering besides just to be sure)
VACUUM SHOP AND SMALL BATTERY POWERED FOR INSIDE THE PLANE
SCALE (1) for weight and balance (one wheel at a time)
ENGINE HOIST borrow from EAA Chapter member
WING STANDS borrow from EAA Chapter member
WIFE (provide your own, not someone else's) handy for pushing one out to
the hangar, drilling, bringing food, lifting wings, debarring, getting
seats upholstered, running the Vac, filing in holes I've made with "hole
filler", talking to visitors while you continue to work, flying
co-pilot (she's worked on it so the FAA say she can be aboard to take
notes etc. during the 40 hour fly off)).
Not needed: Bench Vise, Anvil (not the chorus), Brake, Shear, Bench
Grinder, Lathe, Drill Press, Belt Sander, Router, Shaper, Wife that
shows no interest , thinks your nutz, and says so, OR somebody else's wife.
Note when I departed from Zenith's Rotax Engine Options, I have been on
my own, but Sebastian, Nick and Roger have been helpful whenever called
on with just about any issue. Jim McCormick, the west coast Jabiru
dealer has been superb as well. Can't say enough about Jabiru, either,
we went through 4 engine mounts before they got everything right and
they did it without charge or complaint.
If I had read all the fault finders e-mails back in 2002, I probably
would not have had the nerve to attempt the project, as it is I'm
assuming these people also grumble about everything: in their work,
their family, their car, their medicine and their Na Na who obviously
neglected them as children.
Time to stop writing complaints, figure things out for yourself, get
help when need and let's all get our airplanes flying.
You can check my elaborately equipped workshop on the Construction
Gallery on my web site at http://theplanefolks.net/gallery/
Bless you all and thanks to the listers who have helped me in the past.
Hal Rozema
ThePlaneFolks.Net
Gig Giacona wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
>
>I'm not going to get involved in this flame fest.
>I'm not going to get involved in this flame fest.
>I'm not going to get involved in this flame fest.
>
>Yeah, I am.
>
>Does Zenith marketing make it look like it is going to be easier than it is
>to build their planes?
>
>Of course they do. All of the kit makers make it look easier than it is.
>Just as all toilet bowl cleaner's advertising makes it look like your wife
>will be cleaning the john in an evening gown.
>But we, as adult's who grew up in an age of advertising, should have
>developed a filter that allows us to decode a certain amount of this. Did i
>beleive for a second that I would complete the 601XL in 300 hours. Hell no.
>
>Take a look at this http://www.zenithair.com/kit-data/tools.htm. Could you
>build their aircraft with JUST those tools? Maybe. Has anyone built a Zenith
>plane with just those tools? No. Did I really think I would? No.
>
>I really only have one major complant about Zenith.
>
>1. The construction manual. It is very step by step on the tail and the
>wings Once you get to the fuselage it makes some huge assumptions and skips
>over or doesn't explane several steps.
>
>Now Paul, your very new to building your plane and have only built what is
>the most well explained part in the kit. I'd suggest you dial it back a
>little.
>
>GigG
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Wing tips addendum |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
All-
To date, the total amount of filler (Bondo or DuraGlass) in my project is zero.
Matter of fact, before I did the wingtip, the only place I could use it is
to fill an extra rivet hole (No idea where it came from!) in the right wing
bottom skin, over a rib.
Stared hard at the low spot between the tip rib and the nose skin, at the front
edge of the spar. There are two possible no-filler fixes. 1. My 45 degree
L angle might be a tad too long on top. I hope this is it, because a couple of
passes with a file and I'm done. 2. Instead of overlapping the L angle with
the aluminum tip rib, I could cut a clearance notch in the aluminum tip rib.
Anyone who's "Been there, done that" have a comment?
Bill
601HDS
do not archive
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | I'm not going to get involved in this flame fest |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Davidson" <jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net>
Today as I gave my hand a rest from twirling a large drill bit to debur the
holes in my fuselage parts as I dismantled them one-by-one, I reflected on
the first-time-builder claim by ZAC that was a prime consideration in my kit
choice: I had absolutely no prior experience in aviation related mechanics
prior to this adventure. I certainly was a first-time-builder. I also
responded to their claim that only hand tools were needed. This may be part
of the reason I have been building for so long, but I have found the claims
to be true. The only electric tool that I have used is a drill - well two
of them: a drill press for accuracy and a hand drill. I could have done it
with my manual "brace and bit" if I have needed to. I've had to learn a lot
along the way, but that was part of the deal from the beginning. I will
have no trouble telling the FAA that this was a recreational and educational
experience for me when it comes time for that, hopefully next summer.
I used the first bit of cortec today. It's drying on some test parts as I
write this. Soon I will know that story too. I used a simple foam
applicator to put it on by hand.
Jeff Davidson
CH 601 HD
Message 13
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Received-SPF: none (smtp-relay.tamu.edu: domain of j-adamson@tamu.edu does not
designate permitted sender hosts)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: John Adamson <j-adamson@tamu.edu>
Yep, the HD engine's mighty intriguing. Like you, I have no doubt of
its reliability. I think HD pretty well got their act together in the
early/mid 80s when they came out with the Evo engine (which I love!
Even simpler than the Twin Cam). On parts, it's all relative, I guess.
If you haven't dealt with HD dealerships, be ready for high prices.
They're proud of that Bar & Shield. At the same time, though,
chicagoharley.com sells HD parts via the net at much reduced prices. As
I say, it's all relative. If you're used to paying Continental/Lycoming
prices for parts, HD prices might seem pretty refreshing. A factory
parts manual will help you a lot, too. You'll probably have to buy one
for a particular model bike with the balanced engine in it in order to
get the engine part numbers. Unless something's changed, they don't put
out factory service and parts manuals covering the engines only.
As for the engine's simplicity, it indeed is although less so than the
Evo and Shovelhead. The wrenches at dealerships have, of course, had
factory training. Many of the independants haven't. Still, the
engine's been out for around 5 years now so that probably has changed
and competent engine work likely won't be that hard to come by.
I've asked the guy at Hog Air for info on what he's doing for ignition,
carburetion, etc. No response. Am guessing he's using the standard CV
carb. If used with the standard manifold, it would be on the "back" of
the engine as mounted in the airframe. Is that how yours is? Would
presumably be helped by some air intake ducting to keep it breathing.
How's yours set up as far as ignition is concerned?
On exhaust, I'll pass on an old biker observation: I can't comment on
the TC88/95 engines, but the Evos and earlier engines suffer when back
pressure is reduced. A lot of guys have always thought straight pipes
(aka 'drags') sounded cool. Maybe, maybe not - but the engines didn't
like it. I think I read on the Hog Air site - or somewhere - that he's
using a Thunderheader. Good muffler from the power perspective. Sounds
good, too!
Sure looking forward to hearing more from you on this! By the way, is
the Hog Air guy going to be putting out "conversion kits", or is he
sticking strictly to finished engines?
Thx
John
Larry wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
>
>I'm certainly not the first to put a HD on a plane. There are 8 or 9 from
>Hog-Air flying now and another 8 in the works. I think there will be a lot
>more. Especially, since Harley has introduced their counter balanced engine
>the common known "shake" is gone. It's still a little heavy, mine is 203.
>The torque is 114 ft lbs and horse power is 108. One of the most inviting
>parts is that there are millions of Harley mechanics and parts stores
>around. You can buy any and all parts you might need on-line at reasonable
>prices. And it's a very simple reliable engine.
>Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John Adamson" <j-adamson@tamu.edu>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Engine
>
>
>
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: John Adamson <j-adamson@tamu.edu>
>>
>>Larry ..
>>I'm really looking forward to hearing some "ride reports". I hadn't
>>really paid much attention to the "new engine" comments, knowing you had
>>had the Soob in it. But the HD engine .. now that's a different critter
>>altogether! If you stop & think about it, using the belt prop drive is
>>only the standard HD primary turned 90 degrees. The prop would put some
>>side loads on it that aren't an issue with it installed on a bike but,
>>in general, it doesn't seem like it should be too much of an engineering
>>hurdle to make the thing work for plane. Guess you'll be finding out.
>>Is that a dual plug setup on the "front" jug?
>>
>>Anyway .. congrats. Nice looking rig.
>>
>>**************************************************
>>John Adamson
>>j-adamson@tamu.edu
>>
>>
>>Larry wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
>>>
>>>Pictures of my new engine are now on my site.
>>>Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>--
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
Boy you asked a lot of questions. My engine is carbed for now, couldn't
get the Fuel injection working right. Hope to have the new fuel injection
this winter. I am going to be pressuring him because I do not like carbs.
I am using supertrapps mufflers with tunable back pressure. You can't
compare bikers to airplaners. Our requirements are totally different.
While bikers are concerned about acieration/response, we are concerned about
full throttle, 75% throttle and idle. Very rarely do we "get on it".
Ignition is single and what ever Britt put on it, that's all I know about
it.
As far as service is concerned, there are millions of hog mechanics out
there and just as many parts suppliers. Maybe not millions, but lots. You
should google it and see.
I don't know what you mean about a conversion kit, Brett does most of a
firewall forward kit at, when compared to jab or rotax, a very reasonable
price. Mine was about $9500, included every thing except a few hoses and
cowling.
Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Adamson" <j-adamson@tamu.edu>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Engine
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: John Adamson <j-adamson@tamu.edu>
>
> Yep, the HD engine's mighty intriguing. Like you, I have no doubt of
> its reliability. I think HD pretty well got their act together in the
> early/mid 80s when they came out with the Evo engine (which I love!
> Even simpler than the Twin Cam). On parts, it's all relative, I guess.
> If you haven't dealt with HD dealerships, be ready for high prices.
> They're proud of that Bar & Shield. At the same time, though,
> chicagoharley.com sells HD parts via the net at much reduced prices. As
> I say, it's all relative. If you're used to paying Continental/Lycoming
> prices for parts, HD prices might seem pretty refreshing. A factory
> parts manual will help you a lot, too. You'll probably have to buy one
> for a particular model bike with the balanced engine in it in order to
> get the engine part numbers. Unless something's changed, they don't put
> out factory service and parts manuals covering the engines only.
>
> As for the engine's simplicity, it indeed is although less so than the
> Evo and Shovelhead. The wrenches at dealerships have, of course, had
> factory training. Many of the independants haven't. Still, the
> engine's been out for around 5 years now so that probably has changed
> and competent engine work likely won't be that hard to come by.
>
> I've asked the guy at Hog Air for info on what he's doing for ignition,
> carburetion, etc. No response. Am guessing he's using the standard CV
> carb. If used with the standard manifold, it would be on the "back" of
> the engine as mounted in the airframe. Is that how yours is? Would
> presumably be helped by some air intake ducting to keep it breathing.
> How's yours set up as far as ignition is concerned?
>
> On exhaust, I'll pass on an old biker observation: I can't comment on
> the TC88/95 engines, but the Evos and earlier engines suffer when back
> pressure is reduced. A lot of guys have always thought straight pipes
> (aka 'drags') sounded cool. Maybe, maybe not - but the engines didn't
> like it. I think I read on the Hog Air site - or somewhere - that he's
> using a Thunderheader. Good muffler from the power perspective. Sounds
> good, too!
>
> Sure looking forward to hearing more from you on this! By the way, is
> the Hog Air guy going to be putting out "conversion kits", or is he
> sticking strictly to finished engines?
>
> Thx
> John
>
>
> Larry wrote:
>
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
> >
> >I'm certainly not the first to put a HD on a plane. There are 8 or 9
from
> >Hog-Air flying now and another 8 in the works. I think there will be a
lot
> >more. Especially, since Harley has introduced their counter balanced
engine
> >the common known "shake" is gone. It's still a little heavy, mine is
203.
> >The torque is 114 ft lbs and horse power is 108. One of the most
inviting
> >parts is that there are millions of Harley mechanics and parts stores
> >around. You can buy any and all parts you might need on-line at
reasonable
> >prices. And it's a very simple reliable engine.
> >Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "John Adamson" <j-adamson@tamu.edu>
> >To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Engine
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: John Adamson <j-adamson@tamu.edu>
> >>
> >>Larry ..
> >>I'm really looking forward to hearing some "ride reports". I hadn't
> >>really paid much attention to the "new engine" comments, knowing you had
> >>had the Soob in it. But the HD engine .. now that's a different critter
> >>altogether! If you stop & think about it, using the belt prop drive is
> >>only the standard HD primary turned 90 degrees. The prop would put some
> >>side loads on it that aren't an issue with it installed on a bike but,
> >>in general, it doesn't seem like it should be too much of an engineering
> >>hurdle to make the thing work for plane. Guess you'll be finding out.
> >>Is that a dual plug setup on the "front" jug?
> >>
> >>Anyway .. congrats. Nice looking rig.
> >>
> >>**************************************************
> >>John Adamson
> >>j-adamson@tamu.edu
> >>
> >>
> >>Larry wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
> >>>
> >>>Pictures of my new engine are now on my site.
> >>>Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>--
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
>
--
Message 15
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
1.7 to 1, 64" HD Warp Drive.
Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
----- Original Message -----
From: "Monty Graves" <mgraves@usmo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Engine
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
>
> Larry,
>
> What redrive ratio did you decide on using?
>
> Your pictures show a 3 blade prop.
>
> What make is it and what length?
>
> Monty
>
>
> At 08:30 AM 8/27/2005 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
> >
> >I'm certainly not the first to put a HD on a plane. There are 8 or 9
from
> >Hog-Air flying now and another 8 in the works. I think there will be a
lot
> >more. Especially, since Harley has introduced their counter balanced
engine
> >the common known "shake" is gone. It's still a little heavy, mine is
203.
> >The torque is 114 ft lbs and horse power is 108. One of the most
inviting
> >parts is that there are millions of Harley mechanics and parts stores
> >around. You can buy any and all parts you might need on-line at
reasonable
> >prices. And it's a very simple reliable engine.
> >Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
>
>
> --
>
>
--
Message 16
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Stuart" <billstuart25@hotmail.com>
Nice to see someone using the tc88b in a 701 , i have worked as a tech for
the local Harley Dealer since 1971 geeze i,m gettin old . When i first saw
Brett using the Hog engine in a 601 i decided to build a 701 , i purchased
the planes almost a year ago now and just finished the rudder , since i,m
plans building and very fussey ,prob to the point of being anal lol , i,m
thinking prob at least 5 or 6 years to complete. Will be very interested in
your info once you start flying . I think brett uses a flat slide mikuni
carb as opposed to the stock cv carb from H.D. The stock C.V. carb would
prob be ok and altitude compensating as its very similer to the bing carb
,although it uses a rubber diaphram to lift the slide , which could give
probs over time.The mikuni would be less troublesome in the longrun. It
looks like he used the stock voltage reg and ign sys . The stock ign sys
uses a crank position sensor and a map sensor in the intake manifold , its
very reliable , However i plan to use duel plugs and two seperate H.D. ign
sys , the only prob i can see would be getting the second crank position
sensor in the rite spot , i have lots of time to play with that though lol.
Sorry abt the long winded post . Larry feel free to contact me off list if
you need any service info or part numbers etc , as i have direct contact
with the factory, if i dont have the info i can prob get it lol .
Bill
>From: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
>Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Engine
>Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 19:42:02 -0500
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
>
>Boy you asked a lot of questions. My engine is carbed for now, couldn't
>get the Fuel injection working right. Hope to have the new fuel injection
>this winter. I am going to be pressuring him because I do not like carbs.
>I am using supertrapps mufflers with tunable back pressure. You can't
>compare bikers to airplaners. Our requirements are totally different.
>While bikers are concerned about acieration/response, we are concerned
>about
>full throttle, 75% throttle and idle. Very rarely do we "get on it".
>Ignition is single and what ever Britt put on it, that's all I know about
>it.
>As far as service is concerned, there are millions of hog mechanics out
>there and just as many parts suppliers. Maybe not millions, but lots.
>You
>should google it and see.
>I don't know what you mean about a conversion kit, Brett does most of a
>firewall forward kit at, when compared to jab or rotax, a very reasonable
>price. Mine was about $9500, included every thing except a few hoses and
>cowling.
>
>Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John Adamson" <j-adamson@tamu.edu>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Engine
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: John Adamson <j-adamson@tamu.edu>
> >
> > Yep, the HD engine's mighty intriguing. Like you, I have no doubt of
> > its reliability. I think HD pretty well got their act together in the
> > early/mid 80s when they came out with the Evo engine (which I love!
> > Even simpler than the Twin Cam). On parts, it's all relative, I guess.
> > If you haven't dealt with HD dealerships, be ready for high prices.
> > They're proud of that Bar & Shield. At the same time, though,
> > chicagoharley.com sells HD parts via the net at much reduced prices. As
> > I say, it's all relative. If you're used to paying Continental/Lycoming
> > prices for parts, HD prices might seem pretty refreshing. A factory
> > parts manual will help you a lot, too. You'll probably have to buy one
> > for a particular model bike with the balanced engine in it in order to
> > get the engine part numbers. Unless something's changed, they don't put
> > out factory service and parts manuals covering the engines only.
> >
> > As for the engine's simplicity, it indeed is although less so than the
> > Evo and Shovelhead. The wrenches at dealerships have, of course, had
> > factory training. Many of the independants haven't. Still, the
> > engine's been out for around 5 years now so that probably has changed
> > and competent engine work likely won't be that hard to come by.
> >
> > I've asked the guy at Hog Air for info on what he's doing for ignition,
> > carburetion, etc. No response. Am guessing he's using the standard CV
> > carb. If used with the standard manifold, it would be on the "back" of
> > the engine as mounted in the airframe. Is that how yours is? Would
> > presumably be helped by some air intake ducting to keep it breathing.
> > How's yours set up as far as ignition is concerned?
> >
> > On exhaust, I'll pass on an old biker observation: I can't comment on
> > the TC88/95 engines, but the Evos and earlier engines suffer when back
> > pressure is reduced. A lot of guys have always thought straight pipes
> > (aka 'drags') sounded cool. Maybe, maybe not - but the engines didn't
> > like it. I think I read on the Hog Air site - or somewhere - that he's
> > using a Thunderheader. Good muffler from the power perspective. Sounds
> > good, too!
> >
> > Sure looking forward to hearing more from you on this! By the way, is
> > the Hog Air guy going to be putting out "conversion kits", or is he
> > sticking strictly to finished engines?
> >
> > Thx
> > John
> >
> >
> > Larry wrote:
> >
> > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
> > >
> > >I'm certainly not the first to put a HD on a plane. There are 8 or 9
>from
> > >Hog-Air flying now and another 8 in the works. I think there will be a
>lot
> > >more. Especially, since Harley has introduced their counter balanced
>engine
> > >the common known "shake" is gone. It's still a little heavy, mine is
>203.
> > >The torque is 114 ft lbs and horse power is 108. One of the most
>inviting
> > >parts is that there are millions of Harley mechanics and parts stores
> > >around. You can buy any and all parts you might need on-line at
>reasonable
> > >prices. And it's a very simple reliable engine.
> > >Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "John Adamson" <j-adamson@tamu.edu>
> > >To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> > >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Engine
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: John Adamson <j-adamson@tamu.edu>
> > >>
> > >>Larry ..
> > >>I'm really looking forward to hearing some "ride reports". I hadn't
> > >>really paid much attention to the "new engine" comments, knowing you
>had
> > >>had the Soob in it. But the HD engine .. now that's a different
>critter
> > >>altogether! If you stop & think about it, using the belt prop drive
>is
> > >>only the standard HD primary turned 90 degrees. The prop would put
>some
> > >>side loads on it that aren't an issue with it installed on a bike but,
> > >>in general, it doesn't seem like it should be too much of an
>engineering
> > >>hurdle to make the thing work for plane. Guess you'll be finding out.
> > >>Is that a dual plug setup on the "front" jug?
> > >>
> > >>Anyway .. congrats. Nice looking rig.
> > >>
> > >>**************************************************
> > >>John Adamson
> > >>j-adamson@tamu.edu
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Larry wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
> > >>>
> > >>>Pictures of my new engine are now on my site.
> > >>>Larry Martin, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>--
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
>
>
>--
>
>
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: I'm not going to get involved in this flame fest |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: rlendon@comcast.net
Hal,
Thank You, Thank You, Thank You! It is so good to hear encourging news from what
appears to be a real american with a can do attitude.
Do Not Archive
Ron Lendon
Corvair something or other.
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Hal Rozema
>
> Gentlemen:
>
> I hate to put down all the gripes and sour grapes. My advise is "Get on
> with building your plane, and shut up". (There's a great book just out
> called "Shut up and Sing" but that's another matter)
>
> I'm a very busy 75 year old architectural designer working 50 or more
> hours a week. I built all the components of my 701 here in a downtown
> Phoenix condominium. No prior aircraft building experience. Most was
> build on out narrow back patio where we had to bring the wings indoors
> into our living room to turn them end for end so I could finish the
> other wing tip or wing root. I started in 2002 and according to my
> meticulous record (Kitlog) I have just over 800 hours invested which
> includes studying plans, and developing my own Fire Wall Forward
> arrangement for a Jabiru 3300, and fitting electric flaps.
>
> This is my tool list (* indicate Zenith listed categories)
> *WORK BENCH two Home Depot party tables 30x72 fastened end to end and
> leveled with old business cards.
> CARPENTER'S LEVEL, 4 foot, I choose to use instead of the plumb bob
> Zenith recommends
> * METRIC TAPE MEASURE furnished by Zenith
> * CLECO PLIERS from Zenith
> *VISE-GRIP HAND CLAMPS I have 6 of different sizes now that i'm nearly done
> *WRENCHES which I already had
> *ALLEN SET which I already had
> *SOCKET SET which I already had
> *HAMMER AND MALLET which I already had
> *ASSORTED SCREWDRIVERS AND PLIERS which I already had
> *LEFT AND RIGHT METAL SHEARS from Zenith
> *MANUAL RIVET PULLER from Zenith
> I bought a big air compressor and pneumatic puller and sold it after
> about 100 rivets.. too slow and noisy. I sold them.
> *BATTERY DRILL and assorted drill bits from the Aviation Department at
> Home Depot (Step drill is handy) Not smaller than 12V
> *FILES small, double cut or mill plus a round chain file
> *HACKSAW already had one but never used it (see Dremel Tool below)
> DREMEL TOOL the smallest and cheapest. I've used about 100 cut off
> discs, cuts a smoother line in aluminum than snips
> RIV-NUTS AND 8-32 SCREWS for the FWF/ Engine/Cowling (Note, this is not
> a Zenith package
> SOLDERING IRON 4500W for electrical work, not part of the Zenith package
> WIRE STRIPPER for electrical work, not part of the Zenith package
> WIRE CONNECTOR CRIMPER for electrical work, not part of the Zenith
> package (Suggest soldering besides just to be sure)
> VACUUM SHOP AND SMALL BATTERY POWERED FOR INSIDE THE PLANE
> SCALE (1) for weight and balance (one wheel at a time)
> ENGINE HOIST borrow from EAA Chapter member
> WING STANDS borrow from EAA Chapter member
> WIFE (provide your own, not someone else's) handy for pushing one out to
> the hangar, drilling, bringing food, lifting wings, debarring, getting
> seats upholstered, running the Vac, filing in holes I've made with "hole
> filler", talking to visitors while you continue to work, flying
> co-pilot (she's worked on it so the FAA say she can be aboard to take
> notes etc. during the 40 hour fly off)).
>
> Not needed: Bench Vise, Anvil (not the chorus), Brake, Shear, Bench
> Grinder, Lathe, Drill Press, Belt Sander, Router, Shaper, Wife that
> shows no interest , thinks your nutz, and says so, OR somebody else's wife.
>
> Note when I departed from Zenith's Rotax Engine Options, I have been on
> my own, but Sebastian, Nick and Roger have been helpful whenever called
> on with just about any issue. Jim McCormick, the west coast Jabiru
> dealer has been superb as well. Can't say enough about Jabiru, either,
> we went through 4 engine mounts before they got everything right and
> they did it without charge or complaint.
>
> If I had read all the fault finders e-mails back in 2002, I probably
> would not have had the nerve to attempt the project, as it is I'm
> assuming these people also grumble about everything: in their work,
> their family, their car, their medicine and their Na Na who obviously
> neglected them as children.
> Time to stop writing complaints, figure things out for yourself, get
> help when need and let's all get our airplanes flying.
>
> You can check my elaborately equipped workshop on the Construction
> Gallery on my web site at http://theplanefolks.net/gallery/
>
> Bless you all and thanks to the listers who have helped me in the past.
>
> Hal Rozema
> ThePlaneFolks.Net
>
> Gig Giacona wrote:
>
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona"
> >
> >I'm not going to get involved in this flame fest.
> >I'm not going to get involved in this flame fest.
> >I'm not going to get involved in this flame fest.
> >
> >Yeah, I am.
> >
> >Does Zenith marketing make it look like it is going to be easier than it is
> >to build their planes?
> >
> >Of course they do. All of the kit makers make it look easier than it is.
> >Just as all toilet bowl cleaner's advertising makes it look like your wife
> >will be cleaning the john in an evening gown.
> >But we, as adult's who grew up in an age of advertising, should have
> >developed a filter that allows us to decode a certain amount of this. Did i
> >beleive for a second that I would complete the 601XL in 300 hours. Hell no.
> >
> >Take a look at this http://www.zenithair.com/kit-data/tools.htm. Could you
> >build their aircraft with JUST those tools? Maybe. Has anyone built a Zenith
> >plane with just those tools? No. Did I really think I would? No.
> >
> >I really only have one major complant about Zenith.
> >
> >1. The construction manual. It is very step by step on the tail and the
> >wings Once you get to the fuselage it makes some huge assumptions and skips
> >over or doesn't explane several steps.
> >
> >Now Paul, your very new to building your plane and have only built what is
> >the most well explained part in the kit. I'd suggest you dial it back a
> >little.
> >
> >GigG
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Hal,
Thank You, Thank You, Thank You! It is so good to hear encourging news from what
appears to be a real american with a can do attitude.
Do Not Archive
Ron Lendon
Corvair something or other.
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Zenith-List message posted by: Hal Rozema <HARTIST1@COX.NET>
Gentlemen:
I hate to put down all the gripes and sour grapes. My advise is "Get on
with building your plane, and shut up". (There's a great book just out
called "Shut up and Sing" but that's another matter)
I'm a very busy 75 year old architectural designer working 50 or more
hours a week. I built all the components of my 701 here in a downtown
Phoenix condominium. No prior aircraft building experience. Most was
build on out narrow back patio where we had to bring the wings indoors
into our living room to turn them end for end so I could finish the
other wing tip or wing root. I started in 2002 and according to my
meticulous record (Kitlog) I have just over 800 hours invested which
includes studying plans, and dev
eloping my own Fire Wall Forward
arrangement for a Jabiru 3300, and fitting electric flaps.
This is my tool list (* indicate Zenith listed categories)
*WORK BENCH two Home Depot party tables 30x72 fastened end to end and
leveled with old business cards.
CARPENTER'S LEVEL, 4 foot, I choose to use instead of the plumb bob
Zenith recommends
* METRIC TAPE MEASURE furnished by Zenith
* CLECO PLIERS from Zenith
*VISE-GRIP HAND CLAMPS I have 6 of different sizes now that i'm nearly done
*WRENCHES which I already had
*ALLEN SET which I already had
*SOCKET SET which I already had
*HAMMER AND MALLET which I already had
*ASSORTED SCREWDRIVERS AND PLIERS which I already had
*LEFT AND RIGHT METAL SHEARS from Zenith
*MANUAL RIVET PULLER from Zenith
I bought a big air compressor and pneumatic puller and sold it after
abou
t 100 rivets.. too slow and noisy. I sold them.
*BATTERY DRILL and assorted drill bits from the Aviation Department at
Home Depot (Step drill is handy) Not smaller than 12V
*FILES small, double cut or mill plus a round chain file
*HACKSAW already had one but never used it (see Dremel Tool below)
DREMEL TOOL the smallest and cheapest. I've used about 100 cut off
discs, cuts a smoother line in aluminum than snips
RIV-NUTS AND 8-32 SCREWS for the FWF/ Engine/Cowling (Note, this is not
a Zenith package
SOLDERING IRON 4500W for electrical work, not part of the Zenith package
WIRE STRIPPER for electrical work, not part of the Zenith package
WIRE CONNECTOR CRIMPER for electrical work, not part of the Zenith
package (Suggest soldering besides just to be sure)
VACUUM SHOP AND SMALL BATTERY POWERED FOR INSIDE THE PLANE
SCALE (1) for weight and balance (one whee
l at a time)
ENGINE HOIST borrow from EAA Chapter member
WING STANDS borrow from EAA Chapter member
WIFE (provide your own, not someone else's) handy for pushing one out to
the hangar, drilling, bringing food, lifting wings, debarring, getting
seats upholstered, running the Vac, filing in holes I've made with "hole
filler", talking to visitors while you continue to work, flying
co-pilot (she's worked on it so the FAA say she can be aboard to take
notes etc. during the 40 hour fly off)).
Not needed: Bench Vise, Anvil (not the chorus), Brake, Shear, Bench
Grinder, Lathe, Drill Press, Belt Sander, Router, Shaper, Wife that
shows no interest , thinks your nutz, and says so, OR somebody else's wife.
Note when I departed from Zenith's Rotax Engine Options, I have been on
my own, but Sebastian, Nick and Roger have been helpful whenever called
&g
t; on with just about any issue. Jim McCormick, the west coast Jabiru
dealer has been superb as well. Can't say enough about Jabiru, either,
we went through 4 engine mounts before they got everything right and
they did it without charge or complaint.
If I had read all the fault finders e-mails back in 2002, I probably
would not have had the nerve to attempt the project, as it is I'm
assuming these people also grumble about everything: in their work,
their family, their car, their medicine and their Na Na who obviously
neglected them as children.
Time to stop writing complaints, figure things out for yourself, get
help when need and let's all get our airplanes flying.
You can check my elaborately equipped workshop on the Construction
Gallery on my web site at http://theplanefolks.net/gallery/
Bless you all and thanks to the listers wh
o have helped me in the past.
Hal Rozema
ThePlaneFolks.Net
Gig Giacona wrote:
-- Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <WR.GIACONA@COX.NET>
I'm not going to get involved in this flame fest.
I'm not going to get involved in this flame fest.
I'm not going to get involved in this flame fest.
Yeah, I am.
Does Zenith marketing make it look like it is going to be easier than it is
to build their planes?
Of course they do. All of the kit makers make it look easier than it is.
Just as all toilet bowl cleaner's advertising makes it look like your wife
will be cleaning the john in an evening gown.
But we, as adult's who grew up in an age of advertising, should have
developed a filter that allows us to decode a cer
tain amount of this. Did i
beleive for a second that I would complete the 601XL in 300 hours. Hell no.
Take a look at this http://www.zenithair.com/kit-data/tools.htm. Could you
build their aircraft with JUST those tools? Maybe. Has anyone built a Zenith
plane with just those tools? No. Did I really think I would? No.
I really only have one major complant about Zenith.
1. The construction manual. It is very step by step on the tail and the
wings Once you get to the fuselage it makes some huge assumptions and skips
over or doesn't explane several steps.
Now Paul, your very new to building your plane and have only built what is
the most well explained part in the kit. I'd suggest you dial it back a
little.
GigG
<B
R>
Message 18
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| Subject: | battery location |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brett Hanley <bretttdc@yahoo.com>
I am installing the battery last. The battery is a
relatively heavy item that can be used to adjust the
center of gravity. Once the plane is complete and
test run on the ground I plan to do the weight and
balance. I suspect the battery will be somewhere in
the tail section. The access door will be as small as
possible but could be used for inspection as well. I
am building a 701 with a Subaru EA-81.
Brett
Time: 05:41:25 PM PST US
From: "Brian Briggerman" <blb7037@cox.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Battery access door on 601XL
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brian Briggerman"
<blb7037@cox.net>
I am putting together the rear fuselage side skins and
don't see any
access to
the fuselage after the plane is built. I don't have
the big door
underneath shown
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