Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:51 AM - Re: Rivets in Tight Places (ruruny@aol.com)
2. 06:40 AM - : Rivets in Tight Places (Hal Rozema)
3. 06:44 AM - Got wings turned over (Don Mountain)
4. 07:36 AM - Re: 601 nose skin (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
5. 07:46 AM - Re: 601 nose skin (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
6. 07:47 AM - electric radiator fan 601 (Zill Coleman)
7. 08:22 AM - XL Flap Hinge Rivet Line Edge Distance (Randy Culp)
8. 09:17 AM - XL Specification for Vne, and Rotax vs Jabiru Horsepower. (Paul Mulwitz)
9. 09:52 AM - Re: electric radiator fan 601 (Larry McFarland)
10. 12:11 PM - Re: XL Specification for Vne, and Rotax vs Jabiru Horsepower. (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
11. 12:51 PM - Re: XL Specification for Vne, and Rotax vs Jabiru Horsepower. (Mike Fortunato)
12. 01:23 PM - Re: XL Specification for Vne, and Rotax vs Jabiru Horsepower. (B Johnson)
13. 02:52 PM - Re: XL Specification for Vne, and Rotax vs Jabiru (Bryan Martin)
14. 02:58 PM - Anyone registered their ZODIAC as an ELSA yet? (Lance Gingell)
15. 03:14 PM - New Orleans (Zodie Rocket)
16. 04:17 PM - Re: Pulling Rivets in Tight Places (Brian Briggerman)
17. 04:22 PM - Re: Anyone registered their ZODIAC as an ELSA yet? (Paul Mulwitz)
18. 04:50 PM - 601XL Jab 3300 Carb Econo Tuning Kit (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
19. 05:19 PM - Re: Anyone registered their ZODIAC as an ELSA yet? (B Johnson)
20. 05:56 PM - Re: 601XL Jab 3300 Carb Econo Tuning Kit (Rick Tedford)
21. 07:15 PM - Re: Pulling Rivets in Tight Places 1.67 SARE_ADLTS (mikeandlaurie3@netzero.net)
22. 08:41 PM - Re: Anyone registered their ZODIAC as an ELSA yet? (Bryan Martin)
23. 09:06 PM - Re: Anyone registered their ZODIAC as an ELSA yet? (Allen Ricks)
24. 09:44 PM - Re: XL Specification for Vne, and Rotax vs Jabiru Horsepower. (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
25. 10:10 PM - Re: XL Specification for Vne, and Rotax vs Jabiru (Bryan Martin)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Rivets in Tight Places |
SARE_ADLTSUB2@roxy.matronics.com, Contains@roxy.matronics.com,
possible@roxy.matronics.com, adult@roxy.matronics.com,
words@roxy.matronics.com
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ruruny@aol.com
Doug,
You eventually will need to get one especially when riveting the 701 wing rear
channels. I have found
also at times that even the hand puller is hard to get in certain areas to rivet.
I have added things like nuts or a second head ground down a bit, raising the
riveter body up to give enough side clearance to get a rivet in straight. I
have lots of blue tape on the sides of the hand puller to prevent scratching
parts as you are riveting. Also cut some small squares of .016 aluminum about
4" square. When riveting close to other components or skin, place it next to the
area that could be damaged by the riveter. You are right, planning ahead carefully,
riveting parts in a certain order will prevent later having to rivet
in tight places.
But there are some areas up in the fuselage and wing where the hand puller will
be necessary. Also I found areas on the slats and flaperons and wing leading
edges and forward fuselage that the hand puller gives better control and a better
looking result. Here, as you start to pull a rivet, as the rivet starts to
set the thin skin pulls down to the rib or structure leaving a slight indent,
using the hand puller in these areas, as the rivet starts to set and catch you
can pull up the rib or structure to meet the skin, eliminating that small indent.
I know this sounds fishy but it really does work and looks so much better.
One other thing, the puller I got from Zenith is one of the best quality tools
I have seen yet. I have done all my riveting with it (thousands of rivets) with
zero problems. Also it is very easy to pull the rivets with it. I have another
hand puller with a swivel head that you reeeaaaly have to squeeze to set a
rivet. But on this one I ground down the side to get into those impossible areas,
and it has 3 flat heads which you will find necessary for things like tack
rivets on wings. Hope this helps.
Brian
Long Island, NY
Message 2
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| Subject: | : Rivets in Tight Places |
1.67 SARE_ADLTSUB2 Contains possible adult words
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Hal Rozema <hartist1@cox.net>
Hi Guys:
For what it's worth.
I started my 701 with a Zenith pneumatic puller and a Zenith manual
puller. After a few weeks I sold the air compresser and Pnematic puller.
Ground down one side of the puller anvil for tight places.
Almost done See my website http://theplanefolks.net/gallery/
Hal and Jackie
ThePlaneFolks.Net
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Got wings turned over |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
Thank you all for the help in recommending ways to
turn my 601 XL wings over. I used one of the ideas
someone sent in. I bought 10' of 4" schedule 40 PVC
sewer pipe, which just fit through the line of
lightening holes in the ribs adjacent to the main
spar. I cut the 10' section of pipe leaving 3'-6" on
one end, and 6'-6" on the other end. The short
section was slid in from the wing root end, and the
longer section from the wingtip end. This allowed the
tube to bear on the maximum number of spars, and was
easy to slide these short pieces into the holes.
Then I drilled 1/2" holes through the tube about 1"
from the protruding end, and tied rope through them.
And hooked the ropes over a brace I put in the
ceiling. This allowed my light wife to pull down on
the rope while using the other hand to lift on the 4"
PVC, and to hold it in position with the rope while
adjusting the other end on the bench as we slowly
lifted it and set it back down on the bottom surface.
It worked really well and I recommend it for anybody.
Thanks guys, Don
601 XL, working on wings
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 601 nose skin |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 601 nose skin |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Brad, this may be wrong, but what I did was insure the nose ribs were square
with taped on wood blocks (both sides) marked the center line of each rib as a
guide, and strapped the whole skin down and lined up the mark line with the
holes, adjusting the edges and ends before I drilled. Been while ago, but the
key was alignment and strapping down good and snug. Also placing a cleco into
every hole and work from bottom to top across like eating corn on the cob. This
would keep it tight and flush out any excess. Best of luck, Bill of Georgia
Message 6
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| Subject: | electric radiator fan 601 |
0.06 HTML_TEXT_AFTER_BODY BODY": zenith-list@matronics.com
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zill Coleman" <zill@pinnacletrans.com>
Has anyone installed an auto aftermarket electric fan in front of the
radiator?
99%complete 601HDS
Message 7
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| Subject: | XL Flap Hinge Rivet Line Edge Distance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Culp" <randy_culp@hotmail.com>
Fellow Builders:
A heads up to any and all of you who will be drilling the rivet line in the
rear spar, and bottom rear wing skin, to install the flap hinge.
I've talked to a few other builders in my area and I wanted to let you know
of a potential problem that we ahve all noticed (some sooner than others)
with the hopes that you can avoid it.
You may think that the rivet line all the way along the rear spar, and
bottom wing skin is at the standard 10mm edge distance. I did, but it is
not supposed to be.
If you look closely to the flap drawing you will see that the rivet line in
the area where the flap hinge will eventually go is only 8mm. This is
required so that you have an adequate edge distance on the actual hinge
flange, but it doesn't appear to be shown or called out anywhere else in the
drawings or construction manual. And if you did things in the order that
most of us do (flaps first), you will probably have forgotten all about this
(if you even noticed it to begin with) by the time you get to this stage of
the wings. So watch out for it!
I have communicated this potential problem to Nick @ ZAC and he said that
they are planning on heavily revising/updating the wing Photo Manual this
fall - similar to the recent update they made to the fuselage pages.
If you do happen to screw it up, like I did (on both wings no less....) then
accoring to Nick, ZAC's preferred method of fixing it is to add another row
of rivets, in between the original ones, that have a more acceptable edge
distance. So you will have essentially a A5 pitch 20 rivet line (a
staggered line) on the wing side flange of the flap hinge.
That is what I'll be doing.
Another option might be to change the hinge for a wider one, but from what I
have found, a wider one (2") is also .009" thicker. As Nick said; adding
the extra row of rivets it the preferred fix.
Happy Building.
Randy
XL, Corvair, starting on the fuselage
Message 8
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| Subject: | XL Specification for Vne, and Rotax vs Jabiru Horsepower. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
I have just come across a couple of questionable specs and would like
any comments list members may have to clear up these things.
Vne on my drawing front page shows 140 kts, but on the ZAC web page
it shows 180 mph. This leaves me realizing I don't really know how
this number is derived. Is it a design goal like load factors or is
it an arbitrary number similar to maximum gross weight? I guess this
is interesting because we can't really test Vne without risking
structural failure.
After talking to Pete and reviewing some details shown on the ZAC web
page, I finally have a clue about why the Jabiru performance numbers
are so much better than the Rotax numbers even though both engines
show similar numbers for horsepower. First, it seems the Jabiru
horsepower number is low. According to Pete the new 3300 engines
produce around 130 horsepower. They are constantly being improved,
and the reported numbers tend to be lower than the actual
ones. Also, the displacement of the 3300 is 3.3 liters while the
Rotax is around 1.3. ZAC shows 100 HP for the Rotax and 110 for the
Jabiru, but the vendor documents show more like 95 for the Rotax and
130 for the Jabiru. No wonder the Jabiru works better.
Paul
XL waiting for wing kit
-
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: electric radiator fan 601 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Zill,
I had a fan installed aft of the radiator to pull the air thru, but
realized that I had never had a cooling
problem with my setup. Even in the longest wait for a traffic
clearance, the Rabbit radiator has never
gotten much over 197. I set the fan aside as not needed. Themost recent
experience of not having my
heat muffler connected did cause the coolant to get to 207 degrees on an
80-degree day.
About a 10-degree difference realized when the heat muff was hooked up.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS @ www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Zill Coleman wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zill Coleman" <zill@pinnacletrans.com>
>
>Has anyone installed an auto aftermarket electric fan in front of the
>radiator?
>
>99%complete 601HDS
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: XL Specification for Vne, and Rotax vs Jabiru Horsepower. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
Vne is defined as 90% of the maximum speed at which the aircraft has been tested
at with no signs of flutter or other structural failure. In order to claim that
a certain speed is the Vne you must actually test fly the airplane at 111%
of this speed and determine that it does not show signs of flutter or failure.
I don't know where the 140 knots you mention came from. The information I recieved
from ZAC for the XL is that 180mph is Vne. I flew my airplane at 200mph
during phase I testing to verify this. I suspect that this speed is a conservative
design parameter that takes into account less than perfect construction by
individual builders. A very well built plane could probably safely exceed this
speed by a significant margin, but I wouldn't recommend it.
The Rotax 912s is rated at 100hp for 5 minutes and 95hp continuously at 5500 RPM.
According to Jabiru, the Jabiru 3300 is rated at 120hp at 3300 RPM continuous,
but you will probably never see 3300 RPM in practice, 110hp is a more realistic
expectation.
The Rotax produces a relatively high power for its size by running at a high RPM
and a high compression ratio (10.5:1) and using a reduction gear to drive the
propeller. The high compression ratio requires the use of high octane gas. The
jabiru is a direct drive engine with a lower compression ratio (8:1) so it
needs to have a larger displacement to produce the same power as the Rotax. Because
of the lower compression ratio, the Jabiru could probably run on lower octane
gas even though the manufacturer specifies 100 octane avgas.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
> Vne on my drawing front page shows 140 kts, but on the ZAC web page
> it shows 180 mph. This leaves me realizing I don't really know how
> this number is derived. Is it a design goal like load factors or is
> it an arbitrary number similar to maximum gross weight?
>
> After talking to Pete and reviewing some details shown on the ZAC web
> page, I finally have a clue about why the Jabiru performance numbers
> are so much better than the Rotax numbers even though both engines
> show similar numbers for horsepower. First, it seems the Jabiru
> horsepower number is low. According to Pete the new 3300 engines
> produce around 130 horsepower. They are constantly being improved,
> and the reported numbers tend to be lower than the actual
> ones. Also, the displacement of the 3300 is 3.3 liters while the
> Rotax is around 1.3. ZAC shows 100 HP for the Rotax and 110 for the
> Jabiru, but the vendor documents show more like 95 for the Rotax and
> 130 for the Jabiru. No wonder the Jabiru works better.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: XL Specification for Vne, and Rotax vs Jabiru Horsepower. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fortunato <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
> I flew my airplane at 200mph during phase I testing
Is that ground speed or airspeed??? How did the
airframe react to that speed?
Mike Fortunato
601XL
do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | XL Specification for Vne, and Rotax vs Jabiru Horsepower. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" <bjohnson@satx.rr.com>
The HD has a VNE of 150mph, perhaps that is what you are reading?????
-Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz
Subject: Zenith-List: XL Specification for Vne, and Rotax vs Jabiru
Horsepower.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
I have just come across a couple of questionable specs and would like
any comments list members may have to clear up these things.
Vne on my drawing front page shows 140 kts, but on the ZAC web page
it shows 180 mph. This leaves me realizing I don't really know how
this number is derived. Is it a design goal like load factors or is
it an arbitrary number similar to maximum gross weight? I guess this
is interesting because we can't really test Vne without risking
structural failure.
After talking to Pete and reviewing some details shown on the ZAC web
page, I finally have a clue about why the Jabiru performance numbers
are so much better than the Rotax numbers even though both engines
show similar numbers for horsepower. First, it seems the Jabiru
horsepower number is low. According to Pete the new 3300 engines
produce around 130 horsepower. They are constantly being improved,
and the reported numbers tend to be lower than the actual
ones. Also, the displacement of the 3300 is 3.3 liters while the
Rotax is around 1.3. ZAC shows 100 HP for the Rotax and 110 for the
Jabiru, but the vendor documents show more like 95 for the Rotax and
130 for the Jabiru. No wonder the Jabiru works better.
Paul
XL waiting for wing kit
-
--
--
Message 13
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Horsepower.
| Subject: | Re: XL Specification for Vne, and Rotax vs Jabiru |
Horsepower.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
That was Indicated airspeed. I had to put the plane in a dive to get there,
of course. I gradually worked up that speed over several flights, carefully
expanding the envelope. I took the plane up high enough to make sure I would
have smooth air for the entire test and then pushed the stick forward and
let the speed build up to 200 mph IAS. The plane handled very smoothly for
the entire test, the controls got noticeably stiffer, as you would expect. I
have had the plane up to 180 IAS several times since then and pulled some Gs
at that speed with no surprises.
There appears to have been some changes to the V speeds listed in the plans
since I received mine. This might have something to do with the LSA
consensus standards or ZAC might have some other reason for the change.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
on 9/1/05 3:48 PM, Mike Fortunato at rsq2424@yahoo.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fortunato <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
>
>> I flew my airplane at 200mph during phase I testing
>
> Is that ground speed or airspeed??? How did the
> airframe react to that speed?
>
> Mike Fortunato
> 601XL
>
> do not archive
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Anyone registered their ZODIAC as an ELSA yet? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
List,
I'm really close to getting my XL airborne, and I'm trying to get a DAR
to come and inspect my airplane. Has anyone certified their ZODIAC as
an ELSA yet?
I was originally thinking of getting it certified as an "Experimental
Amateur Built". This would be easier to find a DAR etc. but I've since
learnt that if I get an airworthiness certificate/inspection as
Experimental Light Sport, that the following applies:
1. Anyone who does a 16 hour repairman course can maintain the airplane
if I sell it to them. (slight downside - I must take the 16 hour course
too - which will be good anyway, so I'm happy)
2. The phase I flight test limitation is ONLY 5 HOURS ... this is better
than 40 for ExAB!
3. I must get a Light Sport certified DAR. This is the tricky one. The
guy that is close to me is still waiting for the FAA to say "go forth
and inspect". Apparently this could be any day (or month) from now.
There don't appear to be any downsides to doing ELSA vs ExAB as far as I
can see. IFR is no problem for example (if airplane and pilot are
capable).
Anyone managed to get an ELSA airworthiness inspection
scheduled/completed?
..lance
Lake California, CA
Almost done. http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Hi list , I wish to offer a member of this list support while he is in
New Orleans trying his best to help out. Our condolences and support go
out to all involved in the aftermath of the hurricane.
Rick Roberts and crew are on scene doing there best to help and have
taken a few pictures for the rest of us, I have posted them in the
Stories section of www.ch701.com or you can link directly to them at
http://www.ch701.com/stories/new_orleans.htm
This is not plane related, but it is list related in pointing out the
great group of people we truly have here!!!
cdngoose
do not archive
--
8/31/2005
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Pulling Rivets in Tight Places |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brian Briggerman" <blb7037@cox.net>
I went to Harbor Freight and bought a hand riveter with a very small nose area and it has worked great in all the tight places. It was about $6. They are on the web at www.HarborFreightusa.com.
Brian Briggerman
Fountain Hills, AZ
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone registered their ZODIAC as an ELSA yet? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
I don't think you can actually register your plane as E-LSA.
My understanding is that is an option the kit manufacturer can
choose, not the builder. I also don't think there is an E-LSA kit
available now, and there certainly wasn't one before this year.
The downside of E-LSA is you must build your plane EXACTLY as
specified by the manufacturer. If the manufacturer uses purple paint
on the wheels then you must use purple paint on the wheels. Your
plane is also limited to LSA performance as demonstrated by the
manufacturer when he got the SLSA plane certified. This is a much
more vague issue when you build Experimental - Amateur Built and hope
to fly under Sport Pilot limitations.
I don't think you can modify an E-LSA certified plane in any
way. This is similar to a part 23 plane. You can do maintenance,
but you can't add radios or instruments or wheel pants or anything else.
From my point of view, the E-LSA is just an SLSA with the product
liability issues absent from the manufacturer since he didn't finish
the construction.
As to the IFR comment, I am not aware there is any problem about
flying Experimental - Amateur Built in IFR. Of course, you must have
the limitation requirements met and all of the pertinent regulations
complied with.
Paul
XL waiting for wing kit
I'm really close to getting my XL airborne, and I'm trying to get a DAR
>to come and inspect my airplane. Has anyone certified their ZODIAC as
>an ELSA yet?
>
>I was originally thinking of getting it certified as an "Experimental
>Amateur Built". This would be easier to find a DAR etc. but I've since
>learnt that if I get an airworthiness certificate/inspection as
>Experimental Light Sport, that the following applies:
Message 18
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| Subject: | 601XL Jab 3300 Carb Econo Tuning Kit |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Dear Thread Friends, well my Econo Tuning Kit was waiting for me when I
arrived home this evening. That was really quick delivery cause I think I placed
the call to Jab Tuesday pm. Kudos' to Jab of Tennessee ! In it I received 3
brass jet looking things and a jet needle. Along with it came the Jab Service
Letter. Five and ahalf pages about the benefits of having the kit in my
carburetor and the improved level of performance I should achieve with it and the
standard with which to measure that performance, but almost nil about how to
actually install it. Also, there's a single sentence about drilling out the inlet
aperture to 1.6 mm, but is that one of the three new parts or one that's already
on the carb. Maybe I'm missing a page or two in my letter. Did anybody get a
different service letter with more better instructions in it ? This seems
like a fairly important modification, with your basic life and death possible
outcomes and repercussions for screwing it up, so actually having steps to follow
in installing it seems reasonably important as well. I really hate to have to
ask Pete, especially if this is something so simple that anybody and
everybody else knows the inner workings of all the little bits and pieces inside
the
standard Bing, but I thought I would ask you fine folks first, Hope to hear
from someone, Best regards, Bill of Georgia
Message 19
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| Subject: | Anyone registered their ZODIAC as an ELSA yet? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" <bjohnson@satx.rr.com>
You can't register it as "that" kind of eLSA. The only type of eLSA you
"may" be able to register it as is a "grandfathered" eLSA which is intended
for former "FAT" Ultralights. There is hardly any advantage to this type of
registration other than you may us it for instruction till 2010.
Even though there has been as least one "factory built" 601xl registered as
a eLSA under the "grandfathering" clause, the form to do so has since been
revised and I actually doubt another will be registered that way.
The 5 hour flight test is ONLY for consensus standard eLSAs. If you are
able to register as an eLSA, it will be under the grandfathering provision
and the DAR can assign from 0 through 40 hours as he feels appropriate.
--Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance Gingell
Subject: Zenith-List: Anyone registered their ZODIAC as an ELSA yet?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell"
<lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
List,
I'm really close to getting my XL airborne, and I'm trying to get a DAR
to come and inspect my airplane. Has anyone certified their ZODIAC as
an ELSA yet?
I was originally thinking of getting it certified as an "Experimental
Amateur Built". This would be easier to find a DAR etc. but I've since
learnt that if I get an airworthiness certificate/inspection as
Experimental Light Sport, that the following applies:
1. Anyone who does a 16 hour repairman course can maintain the airplane
if I sell it to them. (slight downside - I must take the 16 hour course
too - which will be good anyway, so I'm happy)
2. The phase I flight test limitation is ONLY 5 HOURS ... this is better
than 40 for ExAB!
3. I must get a Light Sport certified DAR. This is the tricky one. The
guy that is close to me is still waiting for the FAA to say "go forth
and inspect". Apparently this could be any day (or month) from now.
There don't appear to be any downsides to doing ELSA vs ExAB as far as I
can see. IFR is no problem for example (if airplane and pilot are
capable).
Anyone managed to get an ELSA airworthiness inspection
scheduled/completed?
..lance
Lake California, CA
Almost done. http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
--
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Jab 3300 Carb Econo Tuning Kit |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rick Tedford" <rick.tedford@sympatico.ca>
Hello Bill : My carb kit came with a 1.6 MM drill bit . It was used to drill
out an air supply inlet at the mouth of the carb . I believe it was located
on the right side of the carb venturi . My instructions are squirreled away
in my shop but I think Pete can clarify the procedure better than I .
If you are talking to Pete K , ask him if he will be holding a maintenance
seminar in October . He mentioned he was , but the date was not set . I
would like to attend same and hopefully there is a spot open for me
I have 117 hours and am counting
Best regards
Rick Tedford
----- Original Message -----
From: <JAPhillipsGA@aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Jab 3300 Carb Econo Tuning Kit
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
>
> Dear Thread Friends, well my Econo Tuning Kit was waiting for me when I
> arrived home this evening. That was really quick delivery cause I think I
> placed
> the call to Jab Tuesday pm. Kudos' to Jab of Tennessee ! In it I received
> 3
> brass jet looking things and a jet needle. Along with it came the Jab
> Service
> Letter. Five and ahalf pages about the benefits of having the kit in my
> carburetor and the improved level of performance I should achieve with it
> and the
> standard with which to measure that performance, but almost nil about how
> to
> actually install it. Also, there's a single sentence about drilling out
> the inlet
> aperture to 1.6 mm, but is that one of the three new parts or one that's
> already
> on the carb. Maybe I'm missing a page or two in my letter. Did anybody
> get a
> different service letter with more better instructions in it ? This seems
> like a fairly important modification, with your basic life and death
> possible
> outcomes and repercussions for screwing it up, so actually having steps to
> follow
> in installing it seems reasonably important as well. I really hate to have
> to
> ask Pete, especially if this is something so simple that anybody and
> everybody else knows the inner workings of all the little bits and pieces
> inside the
> standard Bing, but I thought I would ask you fine folks first, Hope to
> hear
> from someone, Best regards, Bill of Georgia
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Pulling Rivets in Tight Places 1.67 SARE_ADLTS |
UB2 Contains possible adult words
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "mikeandlaurie3@netzero.net" <mikeandlaurie3@netzero.net>
Doug,
I don't recall exactly but through some partial disassembly and riveting sub-assemblies
I was able to pull all my rivets with air.
Mike in Prescott Valley, AZ - about to rivet cabin floor to rear lower fuselage.
Doug,
I don't recall exactly but through some partial disassembly and riveting sub-assemblies
I was able to pull all my rivets with air.
Mike in Prescott Valley, AZ - about to rivet cabin floor to rear lower fuselage.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone registered their ZODIAC as an ELSA yet? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
>
> List,
> I'm really close to getting my XL airborne, and I'm trying to get a DAR
> to come and inspect my airplane. Has anyone certified their ZODIAC as
> an ELSA yet?
>
In order to register an aircraft as an ELSA, you have to buy a kit that has
first been built to SLSA consensus standards by the kit manufacturer. Since
you started your airplane project before the LSA rule was implemented, you
can not certify it as an ELSA, your only option is EAB. The only other path
to ELSA is if the aircraft was a two seat ultralight trainer, then it can be
transitioned to ELSA under the grandfathered clause.
> I was originally thinking of getting it certified as an "Experimental
> Amateur Built". This would be easier to find a DAR etc. but I've since
> learnt that if I get an airworthiness certificate/inspection as
> Experimental Light Sport, that the following applies:
>
> 1. Anyone who does a 16 hour repairman course can maintain the airplane
> if I sell it to them. (slight downside - I must take the 16 hour course
> too - which will be good anyway, so I'm happy)
>
The owner of an Ex AB aircraft can do all his own maintenance on the
aircraft and can make any modifications he desires without the need to have
any kind of repairman certificate. The only thing he can't do is the annual
condition inspection unless he is the original builder and holds the
repairman certificate for that aircraft. No training is required for the AB
repairman certificate, you just have to show that you were the principal
builder. The owner of an ELSA can also do his own maintenance without any
certification but needs at least the 16 hour course for the repairman LS-I
certificate to do the annual condition inspection.
http://www.sportpilot.org/lsa/maintenance_certification.html
> 2. The phase I flight test limitation is ONLY 5 HOURS ... this is better
> than 40 for ExAB!
>
This only applies if it was built exactly according to the plans under the
consensus standards, which didn't exist when your plans were written.
> There don't appear to be any downsides to doing ELSA vs ExAB as far as I
> can see. IFR is no problem for example (if airplane and pilot are
> capable).
>
The downside is you must complete a training course and receive the
repairman LS-I or LS-M certificate to do your annual.
If you build it under EAB and meet all the limitations of LSA, anyone
holding at least a Light Sport Pilot certificate can still fly it. And
there's no rule that says you can't build it fully IFR capable under EAB and
still meet LSA limitations.
The only advantage to the builder under ELSA is that the 51% rule doesn't
apply. You don't have to build the major portion of the airplane to certify
it under ELSA. You don't really have to build any of it, you could have
someone build it for you and still get the ELSA certificate.
At least this is how I understand the LSA rule.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Anyone registered their ZODIAC as an ELSA yet? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Allen Ricks" <allenricks@verizon.net>
Hi Lance,
If the serial number of your kit is BEFORE the serial number of the
first registered E-LSA by Zenith, it's a no go. ONLY serial numbers
of kits produced after the company registers their first E-LSA are
eligible for E-LSA registration. At least that's my understanding
of the rule.
There were several articles in the May 2005 Kitplanes magazine about
the various iterations of the LSA rule. According to one of the articles
"Ameteur-Built vs. SLSA, vs. ELSA" "...And even then, only airplanes begun
subsequent to the certification would qualify".
Allen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lance
Gingell
Subject: Zenith-List: Anyone registered their ZODIAC as an ELSA yet?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell"
<lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
List,
I'm really close to getting my XL airborne, and I'm trying to get a DAR
to come and inspect my airplane. Has anyone certified their ZODIAC as
an ELSA yet?
I was originally thinking of getting it certified as an "Experimental
Amateur Built". This would be easier to find a DAR etc. but I've since
learnt that if I get an airworthiness certificate/inspection as
Experimental Light Sport, that the following applies:
1. Anyone who does a 16 hour repairman course can maintain the airplane
if I sell it to them. (slight downside - I must take the 16 hour course
too - which will be good anyway, so I'm happy)
2. The phase I flight test limitation is ONLY 5 HOURS ... this is better
than 40 for ExAB!
3. I must get a Light Sport certified DAR. This is the tricky one. The
guy that is close to me is still waiting for the FAA to say "go forth
and inspect". Apparently this could be any day (or month) from now.
There don't appear to be any downsides to doing ELSA vs ExAB as far as I
can see. IFR is no problem for example (if airplane and pilot are
capable).
Anyone managed to get an ELSA airworthiness inspection
scheduled/completed?
..lance
Lake California, CA
Almost done. http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: XL Specification for Vne, and Rotax vs Jabiru Horsepower. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Bryan, 200 mph XL ? with a Sub mill ? Can you give all the rest of us guys
that can't get our XLs past 145 outside of a dive some pointers ? I don't need
200. I would settle for 175. How did it handle at 200 mph and what altitude
were you at ? Best to you, Bill
Message 25
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Horsepower.
| Subject: | Re: XL Specification for Vne, and Rotax vs Jabiru |
Horsepower.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
I had to put it into a dive to get it to 200 mph. I only did this to verify
that 180 mph was a valid Vne. I think I started the test at about 6000 feet
in smooth air. The plane handled the test very well with no problems found
during of after the flight.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
on 9/2/05 12:43 AM, JAPhillipsGA@aol.com at JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
>
> Bryan, 200 mph XL ? with a Sub mill ? Can you give all the rest of us guys
> that can't get our XLs past 145 outside of a dive some pointers ? I don't need
> 200. I would settle for 175. How did it handle at 200 mph and what altitude
> were you at ? Best to you, Bill
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