---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 09/05/05: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:58 AM - Re: First flight (Leo Gates) 2. 09:19 AM - Rivnut Puller (William J. Naumuk) 3. 09:19 AM - Re: Rivnut Puller (William J. Naumuk) 4. 11:29 AM - Re: Re: Rivnut Puller - pictures (Carlos Sa) 5. 12:45 PM - Re: Rivnut Puller (DICK WILBERS) 6. 01:02 PM - Re: XL Specification for Vne, and Rotax vs Jabiru Horsepower. (Thilo Kind) 7. 02:56 PM - Rivnuts, etc. (William J. Naumuk) 8. 03:33 PM - Re: XL Specification for Vne, and Rotax vs Jabiru Horsepower. (Leo Corbalis) 9. 04:13 PM - Propeller Pitch and Tip Speed Calculator (Paul Mulwitz) 10. 07:26 PM - Re: Rivnut Puller (Brandon Tucker) 11. 07:56 PM - [ Bill Naumuk ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:58:59 AM PST US From: "Leo Gates" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Gates" Jim, Aint it GREAT. Congratulations! Leo Gates N601Z do not archive -------Original Message------- From: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" N250JP had her first flight today. It was a great day (CAVU) for a great experience. I really had my "Zenith grin" on when I landed the first time. No problems, no heavy wing but I will need a lot more up elevator trim. Jim Pensinger www.tn004.com/N250JP ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ////////////////////////////// Congrats to you !!!!!!!!!!!!! It will take a long time for that "smile " to go away to... Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com N250JP had her first flight today. It was a great day (CAVU) for a great experience. I really had my "Zenith grin" on when I landed the first time. No problems, no heavy wing but I will need a lot more up elevator trim. Jim Pensinger www.tn004.com/N250JP ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ////////////////////////////// Congrats to you !!!!!!!!!!!!! It will take a long time for that "smile " to go away to... BenHaas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:19:15 AM PST US From: "William J. Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Rivnut Puller --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" All- The quality of workmanship on the Harbor Freight pulling tool is excellent, and eventually I was able to accomplish my objective. Those are the good points. On the bad side: 1. Two of the 8 supplied rivnuts I used were mutants. No through-hole, and no threads. 2. With only 1 paragraph of instructions, the only way you can tell if you're using the tool correctly is if it works. I THINK you screw the stud on tight (LH threads), then the retainer on tight (LH threads), then the rivnut to stud on tight (RH threads), then the big throw screw as far in (So the handle moves aft) as you can (RH threads). 3. I drilled my through hole 1 size bigger than the rivnut, but who knows if that's the correct procedure. It worked. Summary: 1. The keyed style of rivnut is probably a good idea. 2. My objective was to mount my position lights to the fiberglass tip in such a way that I could remove the assembly without having to put in an access hatch. This was definitely a non-stuctural, low stress application. I don't think rivnuts were intended for structural use. Check out how "Appropriate" the Grimes position light I got from a '58 V-Tail Bonanza is for the Zenith fiberglas tip (Picture attached). ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:19:22 AM PST US From: "William J. Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rivnut Puller --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" ----- Original Message ----- From: William J. Naumuk To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 12:20 PM Subject: Rivnut Puller All- The quality of workmanship on the Harbor Freight pulling tool is excellent, and eventually I was able to accomplish my objective. Those are the good points. On the bad side: 1. Two of the 8 supplied rivnuts I used were mutants. No through-hole, and no threads. 2. With only 1 paragraph of instructions, the only way you can tell if you're using the tool correctly is if it works. I THINK you screw the stud on tight (LH threads), then the retainer on tight (LH threads), then the rivnut to stud on tight (RH threads), then the big throw screw as far in (So the handle moves aft) as you can (RH threads). 3. I drilled my through hole 1 size bigger than the rivnut, but who knows if that's the correct procedure. It worked. Summary: 1. The keyed style of rivnut is probably a good idea. 2. My objective was to mount my position lights to the fiberglass tip in such a way that I could remove the assembly without having to put in an access hatch. This was definitely a non-stuctural, low stress application. I don't think rivnuts were intended for structural use. Check out how "Appropriate" the Grimes position light I got from a '58 V-Tail Bonanza is for the Zenith fiberglas tip (Picture attached). Bill do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:29:34 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Rivnut Puller - pictures --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Bill, the Matronics server removes all attachements. You can post your picture(s) on the Photoshare list - instructions here: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/ Carlos > Check out how "Appropriate" the Grimes position light I got from a '58 V-Tail Bonanza is > for the Zenith fiberglas tip (Picture attached). > Bill > > do not archive Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:45:49 PM PST US From: "DICK WILBERS" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivnut Puller --> Zenith-List message posted by: "DICK WILBERS" Bill: The Harbor Freight puller is good, but the rivnuts in the kit are suspect. Use the Harbor Freight tool and get the rivnuts from ASS or Wicks and don't take a chance. estt regards..................................Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "William J. Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Rivnut Puller > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" > > > All- > The quality of workmanship on the Harbor Freight pulling tool is > excellent, and eventually I was able to accomplish my objective. Those are > the good points. On the bad side: > 1. Two of the 8 supplied rivnuts I used were mutants. No through-hole, > and no threads. > 2. With only 1 paragraph of instructions, the only way you can tell if > you're using the tool correctly is if it works. I THINK you screw the stud > on tight (LH threads), then the retainer on tight (LH threads), then the > rivnut to stud on tight (RH threads), then the big throw screw as far in > (So the handle moves aft) as you can (RH threads). > 3. I drilled my through hole 1 size bigger than the rivnut, but who > knows if that's the correct procedure. It worked. > Summary: > 1. The keyed style of rivnut is probably a good idea. > 2. My objective was to mount my position lights to the fiberglass tip > in such a way that I could remove the assembly without having to put in an > access hatch. This was definitely a non-stuctural, low stress application. > I don't think rivnuts were intended for structural use. > Check out how "Appropriate" the Grimes position light I got from a '58 > V-Tail Bonanza is for the Zenith fiberglas tip (Picture attached). > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:02:23 PM PST US From: "Thilo Kind" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL Specification for Vne, and Rotax vs Jabiru Horsepower. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" Hi Jim, I got mine directly from Woodcomp in the Tschech Republic, but they also have a dealer in the US. It's an awesome prop compared to the GCS I had before. Happy building / flying Thilo Kind > --- Ursprngliche Nachricht --- > Von: James Ferris > An: zenith-list@matronics.com > Betreff: Re: Zenith-List: XL Specification for Vne, and Rotax vs Jabiru > Horsepower. > Datum: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 10:31:21 -0700 (PDT) > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: James Ferris > > Whewe do you get a woodcomp adj. prop.? > thanks > Jim > > --- Leo Corbalis wrote: > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" > > > > > > I presume you are using a carved or molded fixed > > pitch prop. When I checked > > around before I picked the Woodcomp in-flight > > adjustable 3100 rpm was the > > highest I could find. A small fast turning prop will > > not produce as much > > thrust as a larger slower prop. This is a given > > within normal limits. > > Changing pitch in - flight really improves > > performance. If th Sonex has a > > wider speed range, which I assume, you'd benefit > > more than me from changing > > pitch from climb to cruise. > > > > Leo > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chris Boultinghouse" > > To: > > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL Specification for Vne, > > and Rotax vs Jabiru > > Horsepower. > > > > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris > > Boultinghouse" > > > > > > > > > Leo, > > > > > > I think you'll get some disagreement from the > > dozens of Sonex drivers out > > > there who happily spin their Sensenich and Prince > > props right up to (and > > > sometimes beyond) 3300 rpm! Sure seems to be a > > useful enough rpm range to > > > spank the living daylights (speed-wise) out of any > > Zodiac on the planet. > > > And > > > they don't seem to be having any issues with > > blades leaving their happy > > > hub > > > either! > > > > > > Just a thought. : > > > ) > > > > > > -Chris > > > > > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > > >> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On > > Behalf Of Leo Corbalis > > >> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:08 AM > > >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com > > >> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL Specification for > > Vne, and Rotax vs Jabiru > > >> Horsepower. > > >> > > >> > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" > > >> > > >> > > >> 3300 rpm is not a very useful speed range for > > available propellers. Most > > >> props are limited to lower rpm. centrifugal force > > increases as > > >> the square of > > >> the rpm causing prop blades to leave their happy > > hub and fly off into the > > >> great beyond. Yes I know about the racers that > > crank 4000 rpm out > > >> of a C-90. > > >> They are engineered to do it. > > >> > > >> Leo Corbalis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > > Subscriptions page, > > FAQ, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Lust, ein paar Euro nebenbei zu verdienen? Ohne Kosten, ohne Risiko! Satte Provisionen fr GMX Partner: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/partner ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:56:30 PM PST US From: "William J. Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Rivnuts, etc. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" All- Dick and Larry, you're both right on the money. There weren't enough rivnuts supplied with the kit to make a difference, and I fully intend to get them from AS+S from now on. I'm also going to check into the keyed version. Carlos, I had a bad case of fumble finger with the last e-mail. I double clicked and IE sent the message before I was ready. I don't know how to link the picture to this e-mail, so it's probably going to show up separately. Thanks. Bill do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:33:45 PM PST US From: "Leo Corbalis" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL Specification for Vne, and Rotax vs Jabiru Horsepower. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" The Woodcomp that I have is not useable because it requires a hollow propeller shaft. Pitch is increased by pushing a rod thru the hollow shaft to increase pitch. flat pitch is obtained by the air load on the blades twisting them to flat pitch and a helper spring. According to pponk.com the max effeciency is reached at a tip speed of .88 to .92 MACH. Compute for .92 at 3300 rpm for takeoff and you should be around .88 at cruise at altitude where it is colder and MACH 1 is slower. The path you are computing is not in a flat plane but a spiral which makes each revolution longer Don't forget that as you approach MACH 1 at the tip the noise will make the airport a really bad neighbor ! Try airmasterpropellers.com. Hope this helps. Leo Corbalis - From: "James Ferris" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL Specification for Vne, and Rotax vs Jabiru Horsepower. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: James Ferris > > Whewe do you get a woodcomp adj. prop.? > thanks > Jim > > --- Leo Corbalis wrote: > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" >> >> >> I presume you are using a carved or molded fixed >> pitch prop. When I checked >> around before I picked the Woodcomp in-flight >> adjustable 3100 rpm was the >> highest I could find. A small fast turning prop will >> not produce as much >> thrust as a larger slower prop. This is a given >> within normal limits. >> Changing pitch in - flight really improves >> performance. If th Sonex has a >> wider speed range, which I assume, you'd benefit >> more than me from changing >> pitch from climb to cruise. >> >> Leo >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Chris Boultinghouse" >> To: >> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL Specification for Vne, >> and Rotax vs Jabiru >> Horsepower. >> >> >> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris >> Boultinghouse" >> > >> > >> > Leo, >> > >> > I think you'll get some disagreement from the >> dozens of Sonex drivers out >> > there who happily spin their Sensenich and Prince >> props right up to (and >> > sometimes beyond) 3300 rpm! Sure seems to be a >> useful enough rpm range to >> > spank the living daylights (speed-wise) out of any >> Zodiac on the planet. >> > And >> > they don't seem to be having any issues with >> blades leaving their happy >> > hub >> > either! >> > >> > Just a thought. : >> > ) >> > >> > -Chris >> > >> > DO NOT ARCHIVE >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >> >> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On >> Behalf Of Leo Corbalis >> >> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:08 AM >> >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >> >> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL Specification for >> Vne, and Rotax vs Jabiru >> >> Horsepower. >> >> >> >> >> >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" >> >> >> >> >> >> 3300 rpm is not a very useful speed range for >> available propellers. Most >> >> props are limited to lower rpm. centrifugal force >> increases as >> >> the square of >> >> the rpm causing prop blades to leave their happy >> hub and fly off into the >> >> great beyond. Yes I know about the racers that >> crank 4000 rpm out >> >> of a C-90. >> >> They are engineered to do it. >> >> >> >> Leo Corbalis >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> browse >> Subscriptions page, >> FAQ, >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:13:52 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Zenith-List: Propeller Pitch and Tip Speed Calculator --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz I came across this neat little web based calculator for propeller length and pitch calculations. Unfortunately, it doesn't factor in horsepower, so there is still some question left as to ideal propeller for your plane. http://www.culverprops.com/pitchselection.htm Enjoy, Paul XL waiting for wing kit --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:27 PM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rivnut Puller --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker William, I am a little late chiming in - was flying all day. I also recommend against the harbor freight rivnuts. If you hold them next to the ASS rivnuts and pull them, you will see a large difference in quality. I used ASS for my strobe power supplies just like Larry, and pulled a couple for practice as well. R/ Brandon ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:56:59 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: [ Bill Naumuk ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! From: Email List Photo Shares --> Zenith-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Bill Naumuk Lists: Zenith-List Subject: Wingtip picture http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/billn@velocity.net.09.05.2005/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures@matronics.com