---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 09/16/05: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:26 AM - Re: Trimming Wingtips (Don Mountain) 2. 06:28 AM - Re: Hello from NH 1.76 SUB_HELLO Subject starts with "Hello" (ROBERT SCEPPA) 3. 06:31 AM - Re: FAA 51% rule? (nhulin) 4. 07:52 AM - Re: Re: list of 601XL builders in TX. (Randy Stout) 5. 10:15 AM - Re: FAA 51% rule? (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 6. 10:25 AM - 912 OIL thermostat (Jon Croke) 7. 10:46 AM - Re: 912 OIL thermostat (Bill Cardell) 8. 11:02 AM - Re: FAA 51% rule? (Allen Ricks) 9. 11:32 AM - Re: FAA 51% rule? (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 10. 11:39 AM - Reason for QBK (Zodie Rocket) 11. 12:31 PM - Re: FAA 51% rule? (B Johnson) 12. 01:04 PM - virginia Fly in (601corvair) 13. 01:34 PM - Re: virginia Fly in (jim) 14. 02:32 PM - Re: Reason for QBK (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 15. 02:39 PM - Re: virginia Fly in (B Johnson) 16. 03:15 PM - First flight N9701 (fred sanford) 17. 03:51 PM - Re: First flight N9701 (Zodie Rocket) 18. 03:52 PM - Re: Reason for QBK (Allen Ricks) 19. 04:03 PM - Re: First flight N9701 (Allen Ricks) 20. 04:08 PM - Re: Reason for QBK (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 21. 04:20 PM - 912 OIL thermostat (Dabusmith@aol.com) 22. 05:17 PM - Fw: Re: Rivet Squeezer Axle (Carlos Sa) 23. 05:17 PM - Tulsa Regional Fly in (Monty Graves) 24. 06:22 PM - Re: 912 OIL thermostat (Trevor Page) 25. 07:28 PM - completion (Ricchardd@aol.com) 26. 07:34 PM - Re: First flight N9701 (RURUNY@aol.com) 27. 07:45 PM - Re: First flight N9701 (n801bh@netzero.com) 28. 07:48 PM - Re: completion (n801bh@netzero.com) 29. 08:19 PM - Re: Re: list of 601XL builders in TX. (Danny Offill) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:37 AM PST US From: Don Mountain Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Trimming Wingtips --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain > I believe the coordinates in the plans are > approximate. . . If you look at the wing > from directly in front of the leading edge and sight > across the wing tip it should look like it was cut > off at a 45 degree angle by a flat plane > perpendicular to the spar and this cut should line > up with the angle of the spar tip. I used a large > sheet of stiff cardboard as a guide while trimming, > Bryan Martin Thanks Bryan, this clears up a lot of confusion now. I installed the 90 mm angle on the rear spar at the 45 degree angle, and clamped a long, straight piece of angle between the front and rear spars on the clip angles across the 45 degree ends, and used this as a guide to mark the skins. Then I trimmed off the excess materal on the skins, and the finished ends of the wing really look like a flat, 45 degree surface now. Something I can use to line up the attachment angles for the top and bottom skins to end skin with. Don 601 XL, tail done, working on wing tips ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:08 AM PST US From: ROBERT SCEPPA Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Hello from NH 1.76 SUB_HELLO Subject starts with "Hello" --> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA > Hi Mike, my name is Bob Sceppa from Arlington MA. > I belong to Ch.106 here at Lawrence Airport. We have > a hangar, chapter home, on the North side of the > airport. I started a 701 from plans. There's a guy > in our chapter that has a Corvair in his KR-2. He > hasn't flown it yet, but he is ready to go. He has > his plane here at LWM. There's also another guy at > Nashua Arpt. that has a Corvair in his KR-2. We had > a chapter meeting there last March. If you got any > issues, I would be glad to help in any way I can. > The tools you will need are the cleco pliers and the > clecos. There fairly inexpensive. Check out Airparts > US Air tools, Wicks, Aircraft Spruce and compare > prices. A drill and a good set of sharp bits. A > drill press would help too. Files, and a deburring > tool. You have the kit, that should cut your time > greatly. Thats about what all I can tell you Mike. > By the way we have a website www.eaa106.org. Have > you checked the website for the Corvair engines? > Well thats about all I can tell you at this point. > Feel free to email me. Bob S. --- Michael Valentine wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michael Valentine > > > Hello everyone, > > My name is Michael Valentine. I live in Contoocook, > New Hampshire and > hope to be a 601XL kit builder shortly. At this > point, I want to use > a Corvair conversion. I am visiting the factory > 9/26 for a test ride > and general visit, and I hope to place an order > then. (I am still > completing Phase 1 of home-building an aircraft, but > I think she is > almost convinced!) > > I have contacted a couple fellow NH builders from > the factory list, > including one who is going to take the factory > course the same week I > am visiting and may be able to bring back a kit > piece or two in his > van if the factory can pull something together for > me. It will be > great to have another builder nearby getting started > at the same time > and a couple people mostly done to get insight from. > > One thing I would love to do eventually is put it on > floats. I have > seen the pics of some people doing it - anyone on > the list done it? > > Anyway, I have a couple questions that I thought I > might try to get > answered before I have a box in my garage. > > 1) Is it significantly more economical to buy tools > from an aircraft > supply co. such as www.aircraft-tool.com or should I > just get them > from the factory? > > 2) Does anyone have a supply of basic tools they > want to sell? (Does > anyone really need/want a few hundred clecos sitting > in their garage > after they are done!?) > > 3) Could someone fill me in on the use of zinc > chromate. What is it > for? How is it applied? Does it need a booth like > paint or just a > mask? Are there any alternative products? > > Anyway, thanks for the time. I'm sure that I will > have many questions > along the way and my questions will probably evolve > with my > skills/progress. I have enjoyed lurking for the > past few weeks, but > hopefully I will get to know some of you on this > adventure. > > Cheers, Michael > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:18 AM PST US From: "nhulin" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: FAA 51% rule? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" Sorry, long post but I hope it clarifies a lot of things for newer builders. ..neil At 09:03:06 AM PST US, Don Mountain wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain > I read in the EAA magazine about the FAA looking into > the 51% rule problem. I often wondered how they > figure out what percentage of a plane is constructed > by the builder and what percentage is not? Don, If you haven't already done so, get with your EAA Chapter Tech Councilor. He/she will know your local FAA inspector or local DAR and will be your best resource. Go to Oshkosh or Sun'n'Fun an sit in on the "Registering your homebuilt" forum. Every year at Oshkosh and Sun'n'Fun the FAA guys and gals have a compiled book called "Amateur Built Aircraft Reference Material". It includes AC20-27E, AC20-139, AC21-12B, AC39-7C, AC65-23A, AC90-89A, and AC103-7. You can probably download these from the FAA web site. These are THE reference material that you need to know to ensure your registration process goes smoothly. To specifically answer you question, AC20-27E contains sample forms. The form that you will fill out to justify your majority portion (there is technically no such thing as "the 51% rule") is found in AC20-27E, Appendix 10, "FAA FORM 8000-38, FABRICATION/ASSEMBLY OPERATION CHECKLIST". It is here where you convince your inspector or DAR that your aircraft actually meets the letter and intent of the majority portion rule to qualify as an Amateur Built/Experimental. Firewall forward, upholstery, and paint are NOT part of the majority portion. Supplemental documentation makes the process easier. A good construction log book with photos. (Never used to have to have photos but they like it now. Make sure that some show you working on the plane.) Also, you can help a lot by getting your EAA Tech Councilor to inspect your project along the way. See AC20-27E, Section 12, Part a.(2). This is an "official" inspection, not just a visit and a chat over coffee and cookies. Your Tech Councilor fills out some EAA forms. One copy stays with you and forms part of your build log, one copy goes to EAA HQ, and the third copy goes to your local FSDO/MIDO. Get your Tech Councilor involved early and keep him involved. He will know the inspector or DAR and may be able to help if there is there is any question about qualifying for the Experimental category. He will also know what the inspector or DAR will be looking for in the finished product. It will be up to your FAA inspector or DAR to determine if what you have declared on Form 8000-38 actually matches what he sees on the day. This is serious stuff. Don't try to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. These guys see a lot of homebuilts and builder's logs. Things will head south real quick if they think you are trying to pull a fast one. Form 8000-38 is an official document that you sign and the FAA don't like being lied to. OK, enough said. This is not to say that multiple builders cannot be involved in the production of a single aircraft as long as you can show a log of building that meets the intent of the rule. I know of projects that have changed hands a number of times before they were flown and they met the requirements because each owner made sure they had received the build log from the previous owner when they bought the project. Read AC20-27E, Section 4, Definitions, Part a, b, d, h, and i. for clarification of what the FAA expects. The repairman certificate can go to any of the builders involved in the process. Many father/son teams will assign the repairman certificate to the son in the expectation that he will be in better health for longer and many end up being the sole owner of the aircraft at some point in the future. The Advisory Circulars mentioned above are what will guide your inspector or DAR through the registration process. There is too much information to summarize here. Attention to detail in the paperwork is as important as getting your rivet edge distances correct if the process is to run smoothly. The "51% Rule Problem" has to do specifically with builder assistance programs that do not appear to meet the intent of the rule. It is hard to see how some of these accelerated programs qualify as an Amateur built aircraft "assembled by a person(s) who undertook the construction process SOLELY for their own education or recreation." Seems to me that the owner undertook the construction process SOLELY to have a cheap plane in the shortest possible time, and the factory staff are already "educated" and are being paid to work so it can't be considered "recreation". My opinion. I seriously wonder, along with many other people, how being a production line hand for a week or three fits in with "education" and "recreation". Never having experienced a builder's program I can't really comment but I have my doubts just how much "education" or "recreation" I would feel at the end of three weeks of 12 hour days. Again apologies for the long post. Tailwinds, ...neil 601XL/Corvair Avionics and stuff ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:05 AM PST US From: "Randy Stout" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: list of 601XL builders in TX. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" This one is from the factory: http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/search-public.html This one is was setup by one of our list members (who we haven't heard from in awhile) Searchable by Zip Code or Airport Identifier http://www2.matthewmucker.com:81/builder_directory.asp Randy Stout - San Antonio TX n282rs"at"earthlink.net www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 > [Original Message] > From: Danny Offill > To: > Date: 9/15/2005 10:51:51 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: RE: list of 601XL builders in TX. > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Danny Offill" > > Michael, I am seriously considering building a 601XL as well and was > wondering where did you find the factory list of builders. I would like to > find builders in the Dallas, Tx area. > > Regards, > Danny > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:15:28 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FAA 51% rule? --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Allen, I just cannot see the need for a Quick Build Kit. Really I can't, cause the XL shouldn't take more than 400 amateur, first time builder, no special tools required, hours to build even with the Slow Build Kit. Right ? Sounds like they will be owing you time. Best of luck and regards, Bill ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:25:29 AM PST US From: "Jon Croke" Subject: Zenith-List: 912 OIL thermostat --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" I just received a Rotax service letter regarding their suggestion to use an OIL thermosat if oil temps run too low on the 912 engines. (winter is coming!) I think Lockwood sells one for this purpose... is anyone using this? any comments on its performance? Jon ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:46:40 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 912 OIL thermostat From: "Bill Cardell" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Cardell" FWIW, good source here: http://www.batinc.net/mocal.htm They have some nice sandwich thermostats that go under the filter. No affiliation, etc, though we use them ourselves. Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad) www.flyinmiata.com 1-800-FLY-MX5S tech 970-242-3800 -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Croke Subject: Zenith-List: 912 OIL thermostat --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" I just received a Rotax service letter regarding their suggestion to use an OIL thermosat if oil temps run too low on the 912 engines. (winter is coming!) I think Lockwood sells one for this purpose... is anyone using this? any comments on its performance? Jon ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:02:52 AM PST US From: "Allen Ricks" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: FAA 51% rule? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Allen Ricks" Heh heh, I've done a lot of reseach on this one. The only person who does not seem to "fudge" a little on construction time of their kit is a local guy near me named Van that builds RV kits, but he builds more airplane than I need, and they take about twice as long to build. My research showed that a 601 kit for a first time builder takes about 700-1000 hours. Some people take less, some take more. If I take 400 with the quick build, I'll be VERY happy. Some people take less, some take more. I tend to be fairly conservative. Not sure if your note was tongue in cheek or not. Hard to tell in e-mail. If you have built one, I'd be interested in the actual construction time, including staring at the drawings trying to figure out what the heck you need to do next. Regards, Allen -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FAA 51% rule? --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Allen, I just cannot see the need for a Quick Build Kit. Really I can't, cause the XL shouldn't take more than 400 amateur, first time builder, no special tools required, hours to build even with the Slow Build Kit. Right ? Sounds like they will be owing you time. Best of luck and regards, Bill ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:32:06 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FAA 51% rule? --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Allen, yes it was TIC. I stopped counting at 1300 hours cause they just didn't matter any more. I have probably put in 400 hours tweeking, adding and adjusting since it's first flight in June. Best of Luck, Bill ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:42 AM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: Zenith-List: Reason for QBK --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" Hi Bill, and others, The QBK is intended mostly for those who are not interested or feel that they are capable of building a whole kit, the ones that just want a great plane for a good value and only look at the end result of flying. With most of the metalwork either done or at least fully prepared for the builder, I believe it offers exceptional value. For the person who always wanted to build a plane but never knew how then the standard kit is a great journey and a learning experience remembered for a lifetime, this is for the type of person that enjoys both the building experience as well as flying. Next we come to the crazy person (of which I'm just about king NUT !!!) this is a PLANS builder, he is the one who is always bending, building, trying new idea's. You know the type, when he has a problem to solve like bending a thick piece of material, he doesn't run out and get the local metal shop to bend it to the dimensions of the plans. He is the type that builds the tool to do the job, (let us see who comes to mind off the top, Scott, Larry, Micheal and cdngoose) this is truly a different personality. All builders are different; a QBK builder has a need for his specific type of kit as you did for your kit, as a plans builder I have a hard time understanding why anyone would rob himself or herself of the Joy in building the plane from plans. As Can-Zac Aviation both David and I recognize the specific needs of each type of person and respect each one for there decision. Simply put different folks different needs, the QBK, standard kit and plans all attract there own personality. In the end we all meet at the Builders dinner with a smile on our face, and raise a glass to Chris Heintz for his dedication to fill all our needs. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- Allen, I just cannot see the need for a Quick Build Kit. Really I can't, cause the XL shouldn't take more than 400 amateur, first time builder, no special tools required, hours to build even with the Slow Build Kit. Right ? Sounds like they will be owing you time. Best of luck and regards, Bill -- 9/16/2005 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:31:45 PM PST US From: "B Johnson" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: FAA 51% rule? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" Another thing to remember when quoting building hours, most mfrs quote AIRFRAME hours. So when your plan is 90% Done, 90% to go; you're at that quoted point. Bruce J. - Building a Sonex from scratch... -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Allen Ricks Subject: RE: Zenith-List: FAA 51% rule? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Allen Ricks" Heh heh, I've done a lot of reseach on this one. The only person who does not seem to "fudge" a little on construction time of their kit is a local guy near me named Van that builds RV kits, but he builds more airplane than I need, and they take about twice as long to build. My research showed that a 601 kit for a first time builder takes about 700-1000 hours. Some people take less, some take more. If I take 400 with the quick build, I'll be VERY happy. Some people take less, some take more. I tend to be fairly conservative. Not sure if your note was tongue in cheek or not. Hard to tell in e-mail. If you have built one, I'd be interested in the actual construction time, including staring at the drawings trying to figure out what the heck you need to do next. Regards, Allen -- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:04:39 PM PST US From: 601corvair Subject: Zenith-List: virginia Fly in --> Zenith-List message posted by: 601corvair Anyone taking a 601 to the VA fly-in October 1-2 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:34:08 PM PST US From: "jim" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: virginia Fly in --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jim" YES. I'll be there My 601XL SLSA is going into Miami customs tomorrow. Then it has to be shipped to Lakeland Airport where it will be reassembled, inspected, flight tested and delivered. I am tentatively scheduled to receive delivery on Saturday the 24th of September and fly back to Virginia that day. If all goes as planned I'll be at the Virginia Fly-in with the airplane. Jim Jim Pellien Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes www.MASPL.com 703-313-4818 jim@sportsplanes.com ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: 601corvair >--> Zenith-List message posted by: 601corvair > >Anyone taking a 601 to the VA fly-in October 1-2 > > Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:32:03 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Reason for QBK From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Yes I would agree that builders come in several flavours. I built an HDS a kit in 950 hours (I still think 400 hours is a joke) and the quality of the finished product looks pretty high compared with some. Wish I'd spent more time/money on the seats. I really, Really enjoyed the building of the HDS but when it came time for the RV there was no way my lovely Wife would tolerate a 2500 hour build...So for this second airplane I went the QB route. To be honest I'm glad I did, for some reason my urge to shape metal has completely evaporated, the little I have had to do on the RV I have not enjoyed one little bit...well OK maybe a little but it certainly feels like "been there done that". It might be partly due to the fact the RV is much less of a challenge...I.e ALL the holes are drilled and they ALL line up....More like slot tab a into slot B and its perfectly stright and true...Too easy, except the riveting process is much more time intensive and boring. I have now finished the airframe and am relieved to be on what is probably the second half of the project. My premade IFR radio wiring harness gets delivered tomorrow...:) Its hard not to drool on the 200HP lycoming sat on my shop floor...:) Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zodie Rocket Subject: Zenith-List: Reason for QBK --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" Hi Bill, and others, The QBK is intended mostly for those who are not interested or feel that they are capable of building a whole kit, the ones that just want a great plane for a good value and only look at the end result of flying. With most of the metalwork either done or at least fully prepared for the builder, I believe it offers exceptional value. For the person who always wanted to build a plane but never knew how then the standard kit is a great journey and a learning experience remembered for a lifetime, this is for the type of person that enjoys both the building experience as well as flying. Next we come to the crazy person (of which I'm just about king NUT !!!) this is a PLANS builder, he is the one who is always bending, building, trying new idea's. You know the type, when he has a problem to solve like bending a thick piece of material, he doesn't run out and get the local metal shop to bend it to the dimensions of the plans. He is the type that builds the tool to do the job, (let us see who comes to mind off the top, Scott, Larry, Micheal and cdngoose) this is truly a different personality. All builders are different; a QBK builder has a need for his specific type of kit as you did for your kit, as a plans builder I have a hard time understanding why anyone would rob himself or herself of the Joy in building the plane from plans. As Can-Zac Aviation both David and I recognize the specific needs of each type of person and respect each one for there decision. Simply put different folks different needs, the QBK, standard kit and plans all attract there own personality. In the end we all meet at the Builders dinner with a smile on our face, and raise a glass to Chris Heintz for his dedication to fill all our needs. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:11 PM PST US From: "B Johnson" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: virginia Fly in --> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" Awsome Jim, I've looked forward to seeing the Zodiac on the "approved" list for quite a long time.... -Bruce J. - Scratch Building a Sonex -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim Subject: Re: Zenith-List: virginia Fly in --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jim" YES. I'll be there My 601XL SLSA is going into Miami customs tomorrow. Then it has to be shipped to Lakeland Airport where it will be reassembled, inspected, flight tested and delivered. I am tentatively scheduled to receive delivery on Saturday the 24th of September and fly back to Virginia that day. If all goes as planned I'll be at the Virginia Fly-in with the airplane. Jim Jim Pellien Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes www.MASPL.com 703-313-4818 jim@sportsplanes.com -- ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:15:30 PM PST US From: fred sanford Subject: Zenith-List: First flight N9701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: fred sanford N9701 flew for the first time last on Thursday - 16 months after getting the boxes. All went well, but I was not prepared for the wonderful responsiveness of the controls. For the first turn, since people were watching, (and yes I know it is a bad idea) I moved the stick like I would have in a Super Cub, and almost turned the thing over! Very quick! Numbers to follow. You might remember that this is the plane that got crashed into in June. We had to rebuild the right slat, and part of the right wing - with blessings from our EAA tech advisor. Picture at: http://members.cox.net/sonar1/firsttakeoff.jpg Fred Sanford - Santa Barbara---Flying! ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:37 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First flight N9701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" Congratulations Fred, Pretty 701. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fred sanford Subject: Zenith-List: First flight N9701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: fred sanford N9701 flew for the first time last on Thursday - 16 months after getting the boxes. All went well, but I was not prepared for the wonderful responsiveness of the controls. For the first turn, since people were watching, (and yes I know it is a bad idea) I moved the stick like I would have in a Super Cub, and almost turned the thing over! Very quick! Numbers to follow. You might remember that this is the plane that got crashed into in June. We had to rebuild the right slat, and part of the right wing - with blessings from our EAA tech advisor. Picture at: http://members.cox.net/sonar1/firsttakeoff.jpg Fred Sanford - Santa Barbara---Flying! -- 9/16/2005 -- 9/16/2005 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:52:06 PM PST US From: "Allen Ricks" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Reason for QBK --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Allen Ricks" Hi Mark, Actually, I have a different take on the quick build kit. I have a 5 and 7 year old, as well as a wife at home. When I'm done building, I'd still like them to be around. I think given that I'm not retired, have young kids, a job, would like to fly some day, and have soccer, swimming lessons, family time, homework, reading to the kids my only choice to fly in a reasonable amount of time is the QB. That being said, it is likely that I will begin tinkering with a plans built when I'm satified with the 601. I feel the QB will give me the confidence and skills to plans build, but I won't feel either time pressured or run out of gas during the building process if I already have something to fly. If I was sane, I'd buy a cessna 120 and call it good. Those Hummel Birds sure are cute. Cheap too. Maybe a 701... Allen -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Zodie Rocket Subject: Zenith-List: Reason for QBK --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" Hi Bill, and others, The QBK is intended mostly for those who are not interested or feel that they are capable of building a whole kit, the ones that just want a great plane for a good value and only look at the end result of flying. With most of the metalwork either done or at least fully prepared for the builder, I believe it offers exceptional value. For the person who always wanted to build a plane but never knew how then the standard kit is a great journey and a learning experience remembered for a lifetime, this is for the type of person that enjoys both the building experience as well as flying. Next we come to the crazy person (of which I'm just about king NUT !!!) this is a PLANS builder, he is the one who is always bending, building, trying new idea's. You know the type, when he has a problem to solve like bending a thick piece of material, he doesn't run out and get the local metal shop to bend it to the dimensions of the plans. He is the type that builds the tool to do the job, (let us see who comes to mind off the top, Scott, Larry, Micheal and cdngoose) this is truly a different personality. All builders are different; a QBK builder has a need for his specific type of kit as you did for your kit, as a plans builder I have a hard time understanding why anyone would rob himself or herself of the Joy in building the plane from plans. As Can-Zac Aviation both David and I recognize the specific needs of each type of person and respect each one for there decision. Simply put different folks different needs, the QBK, standard kit and plans all attract there own personality. In the end we all meet at the Builders dinner with a smile on our face, and raise a glass to Chris Heintz for his dedication to fill all our needs. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- Allen, I just cannot see the need for a Quick Build Kit. Really I can't, cause the XL shouldn't take more than 400 amateur, first time builder, no special tools required, hours to build even with the Slow Build Kit. Right ? Sounds like they will be owing you time. Best of luck and regards, Bill -- 9/16/2005 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:03:15 PM PST US From: "Allen Ricks" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First flight N9701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Allen Ricks" Congratulations!!! I think I remember seeing the pictures on the net after it got hit. Enough to make a grown man weep. When I took a ride with Nicholas, I noticed that one "thinks" about a turn and it goes. I will be getting a few hours in type from Michael Heintz's instructor in CA before flying mine. But that's a long ways off... Allen Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of fred sanford Subject: Zenith-List: First flight N9701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: fred sanford N9701 flew for the first time last on Thursday - 16 months after getting the boxes. All went well, but I was not prepared for the wonderful responsiveness of the controls. For the first turn, since people were watching, (and yes I know it is a bad idea) I moved the stick like I would have in a Super Cub, and almost turned the thing over! Very quick! Numbers to follow. You might remember that this is the plane that got crashed into in June. We had to rebuild the right slat, and part of the right wing - with blessings from our EAA tech advisor. Picture at: http://members.cox.net/sonar1/firsttakeoff.jpg Fred Sanford - Santa Barbara---Flying! ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:08:14 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Reason for QBK From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" More like YOU would still like to be around in YOUR house....:) Frank Do not archive I have a 5 and 7 year old, as well as a wife at home. When I'm done building, I'd still like them to be around. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:20:32 PM PST US From: Dabusmith@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: 912 OIL thermostat --> Zenith-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com >I think Lockwood sells one for this purpose... is anyone using this? any comments on its performance? I have been using the one from Lockwood. Warm up is quicker. Works fine. Dave Smith N701XL 912ULS >do not archive< ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:11 PM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Zenith-List: Fwd: Re: Rivet Squeezer Axle --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Hi, Bill I found the precise pin I needed at McMaster. Ordered yesterday, received this morning. The tool is back in working condition! ($7 for pack of 5 pins, $7 for s&h - beats $150 for a new tool!) BTW, except for ignoring my request for air mail shipping, McMaster was fantastic! Great web site, good detailed information on-line, fast turn-around, fast email reply (I complained about the Purolator shipping, got a reply in 1h). I'll continue squeezing rivets, except for the center spar, where the tool does not have enough clearance. I might use your approach, or get and RV builder to do conventional rivetting (air gun and bucking bar) for me. TBD. Thanks very much for your input, really apreciate the exchange. Best regards Carlos (Montreal, Canada CH601 HD, plans) --- "William J. Naumuk" wrote: > Carlos- > Open www.mcmaster.com, enter "Clevis Pins" in the "Find" window, then click > "Grooved Clevis > Pins" in the tab on the left. There's your direct replacement. Don't forget the circlips. The > parts will only cost you a couple of bucks, but they'll rape you for shipping+handling. You > should still get out for less than $15. > Hang in there. > Other supply houses to Google if they can't get you exactly what you need- > MSC Industrial Supply > J+L Industrial Supply. > Bill Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:11 PM PST US From: Monty Graves Subject: Zenith-List: Tulsa Regional Fly in --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves Anyone going to the Tulsa OK Regional Fly in this weekend Monty ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:35 PM PST US From: Trevor Page Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 912 OIL thermostat --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page I have one on mine and it works as advertised. I can hit 120F in about 2 minutes, then I start taxiing. Never had any problems. Trev Page C-IDUS 601HD R912 On Sep 16, 2005, at 1:24 PM, Jon Croke wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" > > I just received a Rotax service letter regarding their suggestion > to use an OIL thermosat if oil temps run too low on the 912 > engines. (winter is coming!) > > I think Lockwood sells one for this purpose... is anyone using > this? any comments on its performance? > > Jon > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:00 PM PST US From: Ricchardd@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: completion --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ricchardd@aol.com Hi All; I just found out about the Zenith smile. After two years and two weeks building to DAR inspection last Thursday, this evening N601ZT made a trip around the patern. Temps were climbing so I did not stay up long. Flys great :) 601XL, 4 blade warpdrive prop on RAM 140EFI. On EAAs digital scale it weighs 785 without fuel. Richard Musser mohave Valley AZ ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:38 PM PST US From: RURUNY@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: RE: First flight N9701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: RURUNY@aol.com Fred, Glad you got it fixed quick and got it flying. Congratulations!! Hope you're feeling great. Brian ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:49 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First flight N9701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" N9701 flew for the first time last on Thursday - 16 months after getting the boxes. All went well, but I was not prepared for the wonderful responsiveness of the controls. For the first turn, since people were watching, (and yes I know it is a bad idea) I moved the stick like I would ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// To quote a popular line from a TV show " Lizibeth this is the big one" Congrats to you !!!!!! do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com N9701 flew for the first time last on Thursday - 16 months after getting the boxes. All went well, but I was not prepared for the wonderful responsiveness of the controls. For the first turn, since people were watching, (and yes I know it is a bad idea) I moved the stick like I would ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// To quote a popular line from a TV show " Lizibeth this is the big one" Congrats to you !!!!!! do not archive BenHaas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:47 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: completion --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" Wow... two in one week !!!!!! congrats to you..... do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com Wow... two in one week !!!!!! congrats to you..... do not archive BenHaas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:28 PM PST US From: "Danny Offill" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: list of 601XL builders in TX. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Danny Offill" Thanks Randy. I'll check out the sites. Danny Offill -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy Stout Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: list of 601XL builders in TX. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" This one is from the factory: http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/search-public.html This one is was setup by one of our list members (who we haven't heard from in awhile) Searchable by Zip Code or Airport Identifier http://www2.matthewmucker.com:81/builder_directory.asp Randy Stout - San Antonio TX n282rs"at"earthlink.net www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 > [Original Message] > From: Danny Offill > To: > Date: 9/15/2005 10:51:51 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: RE: list of 601XL builders in TX. > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Danny Offill" > > Michael, I am seriously considering building a 601XL as well and was > wondering where did you find the factory list of builders. I would like to > find builders in the Dallas, Tx area. > > Regards, > Danny >