Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:29 AM - 601HDS sport pilot eligible?? (Rick Framil)
2. 05:35 AM - Re: 601HDS sport pilot eligible?? (B Johnson)
3. 06:45 AM - Re: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12 (Condon,Philip M.)
4. 07:16 AM - Re: 601HDS sport pilot eligible?? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
5. 07:32 AM - Re: Close Call (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
6. 07:49 AM - Re: 601HDS sport pilot eligible?? ()
7. 08:03 AM - EAA Meeting Last Night (Phil Maxson)
8. 08:06 AM - Re: Re: N601LG First Flight! (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
9. 08:29 AM - Re:Close Call (EMAproducts@aol.com)
10. 08:37 AM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12 (Rusty)
11. 08:48 AM - Re: EAA Meeting Last Night ()
12. 08:50 AM - Close Call Follow Up (john H)
13. 09:05 AM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12 (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
14. 10:17 AM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12 (Craig Payne)
15. 10:25 AM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12 (Craig Payne)
16. 10:26 AM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12 (Allen Ricks)
17. 10:37 AM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12 (Samm Munn)
18. 10:43 AM - Re: Close Call ()
19. 10:45 AM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12 (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
20. 10:58 AM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12 (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
21. 11:01 AM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12 (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
22. 11:04 AM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the (Paul Mulwitz)
23. 11:09 AM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12 (B Johnson)
24. 11:13 AM - Re: Close Call Follow Up (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
25. 11:43 AM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12 (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
26. 12:06 PM - Re: 601HDS sport pilot eligible?? (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
27. 12:09 PM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12 (Craig Payne)
28. 12:20 PM - engine/601 combo and insurance (Rick Framil)
29. 01:06 PM - Re: engine/601 combo and insurance (Allen Ricks)
30. 01:52 PM - Re: N601LG First Flight! (Lance Gingell)
31. 02:14 PM - Re: N601LG First Flight! (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
32. 02:39 PM - Re: N601LG First Flight! (Dave Gardea)
33. 03:07 PM - Re: CH601 HDS with Jabiru 2200 performance (William J. Naumuk)
34. 03:25 PM - Re: 601HDS sport pilot eligible?? (William J. Naumuk)
35. 03:47 PM - Re: Re: 601HDS sport pilot eligible?? ()
36. 04:00 PM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12 (William J. Naumuk)
37. 04:20 PM - Re: 601HDS sport pilot eligible?? (R. Saarinen)
38. 04:56 PM - Re: engine/601 combo and insurance (Al Young)
39. 05:19 PM - Re: Close Call Follow Up (Gary Gower)
40. 05:20 PM - Re: N601LG First Flight! (Al Young)
41. 05:41 PM - Re: Re: 601HDS sport pilot eligible?? (William J. Naumuk)
42. 05:51 PM - Re: 601HDS sport pilot eligible?? (William J. Naumuk)
43. 06:02 PM - Re: 2 piece canopy , 601 (Craig)
44. 06:05 PM - Re: 601HDS sport pilot eligible?? (JOHN STARN)
45. 10:22 PM - Re: N601LG First Flight! (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
46. 10:23 PM - HD or HDS suitability for Jabiru 2200 85hp (Darin McLEAN)
47. 10:34 PM - Re: 601HDS sport pilot eligible?? (Jeff Davidson)
48. 10:46 PM - Re: 601HDS sport pilot eligible?? (Bryan Martin)
Message 1
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| Subject: | 601HDS sport pilot eligible?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rick Framil" <rickframil@gmail.com>
Hello,
I was wondering if the 601HDS is sport pilot eligible?
Rick
Message 2
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| Subject: | 601HDS sport pilot eligible?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" <bjohnson@satx.rr.com>
It depends....
I know of at least one HDS that specifically lists his clean stall speed as
"exactly" 51mph....
-Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Framil
Subject: Zenith-List: 601HDS sport pilot eligible??
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rick Framil" <rickframil@gmail.com>
Hello,
I was wondering if the 601HDS is sport pilot eligible?
Rick
--
--
Message 3
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| Subject: | RE: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Condon,Philip M." <pcondon@mitre.org>
Vans newsletter posted some more data on the RV-12 . Anyone looking at
a Zenith might study the RV-12. Admittedly biased, since I built 2 RV's
in the past......
Message 4
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| Subject: | 601HDS sport pilot eligible?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Actually mine is 50.999mph...:)
Infact as far as I can tell from the wiggly ASI needle it really does
stall right around 50mph so yes I would say it is compatible.
Frank
HDS for sale in the next few months...sigh...:(
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Johnson
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601HDS sport pilot eligible??
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" <bjohnson@satx.rr.com>
It depends....
I know of at least one HDS that specifically lists his clean stall speed
as "exactly" 51mph....
-Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Framil
Subject: Zenith-List: 601HDS sport pilot eligible??
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rick Framil" <rickframil@gmail.com>
Hello,
I was wondering if the 601HDS is sport pilot eligible?
Rick
--
--
Message 5
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Yeah that would concern me too. My Wife even asked me how that could
happen when you always look inside the tanks...And she is not a pilot!
One can only hope your friend wakes up to the fact he was saved with a
healthy does of 1) help from the almighty, 2) luck OR BOTH!
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of john H
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Close Call
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "john H" <professor71@hotmail.com>
Hi Frank
The FAA was notified. They were more impressed that he made a safe
landing and no one was hurt. The only thing they suggested was not to
rely on the fuel gauge and always stick the tank.. I have the sight
gauge which is real accurate on the ground but does bounce during
flight. I've never had a problem running out or low on fuel. I also have
checklists which were not used this time. The more I think about what
happened, the more pissed off I get. I don't understand how someone
could be so negligent especially with his hours of flying and the
education he has. He still doesn't get how serious this mistake was and
is more focused on his piloting skills in making such a great emergency
landing.
>From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Close Call
>Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:27:11 -0700
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
><frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>Damn!
>
>Thanks for sharing John, I am at a complete loss how such a serious
>brain fart could occur...If the FAA finds out about this I bet they
>will be having a serious conversation with him.
>
>Frank
>
>Do not archive
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of john H
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Close Call
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "john H" <professor71@hotmail.com>
>
>Hi List
>
>I have 105hrs on my 601HD. I was going to write a report about how well
>and how much fun the plane is to fly, but something happened this
>weekend that has kind of shook me up. I went out of town this weekend
>for a much needed get away. I left my key so that a friend could fly my
>plane while I was gone. He is a young man with several hundred hours of
>flying time and a graduate of an Aeronuatical university. We had flown
>together for probably
>10-15 hrs so he was familiar with the plane.
>
>When I got home Sun. I saw a picture of my plane in the local paper on
>a
>4 lane highway with a headline saying the plane had an engine failure
>and was forced to land on the highway. Thankfully no one was hurt and
>the plane was not damaged. He actually made a remarkable engine out
>landing about a mile from the runway. When I got up with the pilot he
>said the engine sputtered and quit and he didn't know why. I figured it
>had to be electrical or a fuel problem. I was right. He had run the
>plane out of fuel. The wings had to be removed and put on a truck back
>to the airport. Unfortunately instead of disconnecting the wires and
>tubing, they just cut them.
>
>He and his passenger were very lucky, and I am pretty lucky too. I'm
>reporting this to say be careful who you let fly your plane, and please
>make sure you check your fuel before leaving. I will be back up and
>flying probably by the end of the week but I'm not sure I'll let anyone
>else fly my plane again unless I'm with them. I know stuff happens, but
>this was just plain stupidity.
>John
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | 601HDS sport pilot eligible?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <jeffglass@starband.net>
Mine is. Stall speed is 49 MPH... Remember, must be under 1320 lbs gross
weight, fixed gear, fixed or ground adjustable prop.
Jeff Glasserow
Ch601 HDS
N6384E
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" <bjohnson@satx.rr.com>
>
> It depends....
>
> I know of at least one HDS that specifically lists his clean stall speed
> as "exactly" 51mph....
>
> -Bruce
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Framil
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: 601HDS sport pilot eligible??
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rick Framil" <rickframil@gmail.com>
>
> Hello,
> I was wondering if the 601HDS is sport pilot eligible?
> Rick
>
>
> --
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | EAA Meeting Last Night |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax@hotmail.com>
Jeff,
I missed you last night. I haven't heard from you in an while. I hope all
is well, and business is great!
Phil
Message 8
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| Subject: | RE: N601LG First Flight! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
It wasn't that Roy, I was hoping you realised your panel would be much
happier in MY RV...I'd still adopt it for you...:)
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
royt.or@netzero.com
Subject: Zenith-List: RE: N601LG First Flight!
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "royt.or@netzero.com"
--> <royt.or@netzero.com>
Lance. Congratulations. Building was a wonderful adventure. I expect
that you will find flying even better. I look forward to sharing the sky
with N601LG.
Frank - N601RT has CS #8 torx head screws securing the top forward skin.
Zenair approved this using nutplates and with the same spacing as the
plans documented rivets. ==100 nutplates! You probably did not notice
this on my plane because you were concerned about all the extra $tuff I
put in the panel, or because N601RT sucks fuel to the firewall through a
fuel selector valve, fuel filter and fuel flow transducer from a wing
locker tank or either of the leading edge tanks. ;-) Regards, Roy
N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped,
465hrs, 566 landings
Lance. Congratulations. Building was a wonderful adventure. I expect
that you will find flying even better. I look forward to sharing the sky
with N601LG.
Frank - N601RT has CS #8 torx head screws securing the top forward skin.
Zenair approved this using nutplates and with the same spacing as the
plans documented rivets. ==100 nutplates! You probably did not notice
this on my plane because you were concerned about all the extra $tuff I
put in the panel, or because N601RT sucks fuel to the firewall through a
fuel selector valve, fuel filter and fuel flow transducer from a wing
locker tank or either of the leading edge tanks. ;-)
Regards,
Roy
N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped,
465hrs,566 landings
Message 9
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: EMAproducts@aol.com
John, you write
I don't understand how someone could be so negligent especially with
his hours of flying and the education he has. He still doesn't get how
serious this mistake was and is more focused on his piloting skills in
making such a great emergency landing.
My comments
The above reminds me of the old story about leading a horse to water, but you
cannot make him drink. Just because he has education and a few hundred hours
does not make him a pilot ~ his actions prove otherwise! It sounds like he
is an "airplane driver." Not only did he put your aircraft in danger, but had
no concern for his passenger. Somewhere his training was very very inadequate
or he is a know it all, in which case I doubt you would have left him your
keys. Did he meet your insurance requirements? loaning out our pride & joy is
serious~ the last time I did that a tornado touched down at airport where it
had landed and totaled aircraft ~38 years ago & I haven't forgotten yet! Sadly
I've known a few professional? pilots that were airplane drivers also.
Always set a good example and do a complete preflight and use a checklist!
There are old pilots, there are bold pilots, but very few old bold pilots.
Elbie
CFI 43 years, 25,000 hours
retired aircarrier pilot and former ATP examiner
www.riteangle.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | RE: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Condon,Philip M."
--> <pcondon@mitre.org>
Vans newsletter posted some more data on the RV-12 . Anyone looking at a
Zenith might study the RV-12. Admittedly biased, since I built 2 RV's in the
past......
-----------------------------------------------
Greetings,
I just signed on here to check out the XL a little closer. I've built two
RV's also, an -8 and a Mazda rotary powered -3B. I just sold the -3B, and I
think either an XL or an RV-12 could be in my semi-near future. I love
Van's products, and their business practices, but I've also been pretty
impressed with what I've seen on the Zenith web page as well.
Cheers,
Rusty (soaking up XL info)
Do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Meeting Last Night |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <jeffglass@starband.net>
...Rriwed to make the meeting last night but didn't end up leaving the
office until 8:30. We're pitching Allstate Ins in Chicago tomorrow in the
AM so everything is a big push. Last Month it was a pitch to Miller
Brewing... I hope some of these come to fruition!. Just got my new
canopy from Todd's. Much nicer than the one from Zenith. Got the new
step too. As well as a box of A4 and A5 rivets so I can replace the ones
I borrowed from you. Hope to have the canopy and step and new EGT/CHT
guage done in about 3 weeks.
Had a wonderful trip up to Lake Placid and then on down to Coopertown.
Plane had no trouble at 7500' to go up over Mt. Marcy. I'm sure we were
overgross since we had both baggage lockers full and stuff in the back as
well. Even upstate it was HOT. Temps in the 90's.... but thye have long
runways for some reason. We did land and take off from one grass strip in
Cambridge NY where we visited some friends. No problem there either.
Hope to see you soon. Let's fly the Cub! How are you making out with
your canopy?
Jeff
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax@hotmail.com>
>
> Jeff,
>
> I missed you last night. I haven't heard from you in an while. I hope
> all is well, and business is great!
>
> Phil
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Close Call Follow Up |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "john H" <professor71@hotmail.com>
Just to let you all know, I finally got a call from the FAA wanting details
about the incident. They are requiring me to write in my log that the pilot
reported 6-8 gallons of fuel in the tank at take-off. I have to have an AP
check out my site gauge and verify its accuracy. Send a fax of my log book
with the verification to them before the plane is allowed to fly again. This
means I have to have an AP drain the gas out of the plane and refill it 2-3
times to verify the accuaracy. I know the gauge is accurate because I put 5
gallons in when I got backto the airport and it came just a hair above the 5
gallon mark on the gauge. Once the gas was in, I started the engine and when
the fuel got to the cylinders it fired right up and ran fine. Seems like
they are blaming the plane for pilot stupidity.
They also recommended that I contact Zenith to ask if they have ever
encountered a problem with this type of set up before. I probably won't do
this but I will ask the list if anyone else has ever encountered this
problem. I don't see a problem with this set up and have found it to be
extremely accurate since the plane has been flying. I trust this method more
than any mechanical gauge. The other recomendation was to stick the tank to
verify that the site gauge is accurate which I always do when flying GA
aircraft with mechanical gauges and will do from now on with my plane.
John
Message 13
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| Subject: | RE: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I hate to be a ZAC basher but if Van's get the RV12 going then you can
be sure the holes will be pre-drilled and they will all line up
perfectly. They really are a pleasure to put together.
The one BIG proviso is...AS long as Van's do not use solid
rivets...compared to pop rivets they are a pain in the a**!
I know they are thinking pop rivets so they would be almost untouchable,
unless ZAC has invested in CNC tooling since I built the HDS.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rusty
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the
RV-12
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Condon,Philip M."
--> <pcondon@mitre.org>
Vans newsletter posted some more data on the RV-12 . Anyone looking at a
Zenith might study the RV-12. Admittedly biased, since I built 2 RV's in
the past......
-----------------------------------------------
Greetings,
I just signed on here to check out the XL a little closer. I've built
two RV's also, an -8 and a Mazda rotary powered -3B. I just sold the
-3B, and I think either an XL or an RV-12 could be in my semi-near
future. I love Van's products, and their business practices, but I've
also been pretty impressed with what I've seen on the Zenith web page as
well.
Cheers,
Rusty (soaking up XL info)
Do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | RE: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
The biggest difference between the RV-12 and the Zenith aircraft (aside from the
number flying) is that one uses blind rivets amd one uses conventional ones.
-- Craig
Rusty <13brv3c@bellsouth.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Condon,Philip M."
-->
Vans newsletter posted some more data on the RV-12 . Anyone looking at a
Zenith might study the RV-12. Admittedly biased, since I built 2 RV's in the
past......
-----------------------------------------------
Greetings,
I just signed on here to check out the XL a little closer. I've built two
RV's also, an -8 and a Mazda rotary powered -3B. I just sold the -3B, and I
think either an XL or an RV-12 could be in my semi-near future. I love
Van's products, and their business practices, but I've also been pretty
impressed with what I've seen on the Zenith web page as well.
Cheers,
Rusty (soaking up XL info)
Do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
As a Corvair-XL builder I am betting that Van's will be a lot less open to alternative
engines than Zenith. The description from Van's makes it sounds like the
design is built around the Rotax engine. Just a guess.
-- Craig
"Condon,Philip M." <pcondon@mitre.org> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Condon,Philip M."
Vans newsletter posted some more data on the RV-12 . Anyone looking at
a Zenith might study the RV-12. Admittedly biased, since I built 2 RV's
in the past......
Message 16
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| Subject: | RE: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Allen Ricks" <allenricks@verizon.net>
Howdy all,
I've been following Van for quite a while since he's just down the road
from me. When I talked to his staff at Arlington, they said the -12 was
quite a ways off if they built it at all. First they need to build a
concept and fly it a while. Then they need to build a pre-production
prototype. Then they need to build a production prototype. I was told
they are still not sure if they will really build the -12 for the market,
but they said that about the -10 as well.
It will have pulled (blind) rivets. The bashed rivets make no sense if
you are top end limited. They are installed in the other RV's for drag
reasons. This is not a problem in the -12. With Van's designs, removing
enough drag will be more of a problem. I expect it will have a really fat
wing.
I went with the Zenith because I don't want to wait for the -12. That being
said, if it were coming out in the next 12 months, I would probably have
waited for it. Van is the only guy in the kit industry that is TOTALLY
honest in everything he says and does. If he told me it was going to rain
frogs,
I'd buy stock in amphibian repellant, because you can bet it would.
I expect our EAA chapter 105 (Van's home wing) will look at the -12 sometime
during the production process, and I'll let you know what I see.
Allen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank
George (Corvallis)
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the
RV-12
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
I hate to be a ZAC basher but if Van's get the RV12 going then you can
be sure the holes will be pre-drilled and they will all line up
perfectly. They really are a pleasure to put together.
The one BIG proviso is...AS long as Van's do not use solid
rivets...compared to pop rivets they are a pain in the a**!
I know they are thinking pop rivets so they would be almost untouchable,
unless ZAC has invested in CNC tooling since I built the HDS.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rusty
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the
RV-12
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Condon,Philip M."
--> <pcondon@mitre.org>
Vans newsletter posted some more data on the RV-12 . Anyone looking at a
Zenith might study the RV-12. Admittedly biased, since I built 2 RV's in
the past......
-----------------------------------------------
Greetings,
I just signed on here to check out the XL a little closer. I've built
two RV's also, an -8 and a Mazda rotary powered -3B. I just sold the
-3B, and I think either an XL or an RV-12 could be in my semi-near
future. I love Van's products, and their business practices, but I've
also been pretty impressed with what I've seen on the Zenith web page as
well.
Cheers,
Rusty (soaking up XL info)
Do not archive
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: RE: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Samm Munn" <heliav8r@swbell.net>
Since I'm building from scratch, the alignment will be up to me and I intend
to be damned precise.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> I hate to be a ZAC basher but if Van's get the RV12 going then you can be
> sure the holes will be pre-drilled and they will all line up perfectly.
> They really are a pleasure to put together.
Message 18
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
Re that hot stick, a piece of eternal wisdom passed on to me many years ago------
"The best pilots never have to prove it."
Paul Rodriguez
601XL/Corvair
seat frames in, fairleads comin' up
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: john H<mailto:professor71@hotmail.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 9:19 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Close Call
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "john H" <professor71@hotmail.com<mailto:professor71@hotmail.com>>
Hi Frank
The FAA was notified. They were more impressed that he made a safe landing
and no one was hurt. The only thing they suggested was not to rely on the
fuel gauge and always stick the tank.. I have the sight gauge which is real
accurate on the ground but does bounce during flight. I've never had a
problem running out or low on fuel. I also have checklists which were not
used this time. The more I think about what happened, the more pissed off I
get. I don't understand how someone could be so negligent especially with
his hours of flying and the education he has. He still doesn't get how
serious this mistake was and is more focused on his piloting skills in
making such a great emergency landing.
>From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com<mailto:frank.hinde@hp.com>>
>Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>>
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Close Call
>Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:27:11 -0700
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
><frank.hinde@hp.com<mailto:frank.hinde@hp.com>>
>
>Damn!
>
>Thanks for sharing John, I am at a complete loss how such a serious
>brain fart could occur...If the FAA finds out about this I bet they will
>be having a serious conversation with him.
>
>Frank
>
>Do not archive
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com>
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of john H
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Zenith-List: Close Call
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "john H" <professor71@hotmail.com<mailto:professor71@hotmail.com>>
>
>Hi List
>
>I have 105hrs on my 601HD. I was going to write a report about how well
>and how much fun the plane is to fly, but something happened this
>weekend that has kind of shook me up. I went out of town this weekend
>for a much needed get away. I left my key so that a friend could fly my
>plane while I was gone. He is a young man with several hundred hours of
>flying time and a graduate of an Aeronuatical university. We had flown
>together for probably
>10-15 hrs so he was familiar with the plane.
>
>When I got home Sun. I saw a picture of my plane in the local paper on a
>4 lane highway with a headline saying the plane had an engine failure
>and was forced to land on the highway. Thankfully no one was hurt and
>the plane was not damaged. He actually made a remarkable engine out
>landing about a mile from the runway. When I got up with the pilot he
>said the engine sputtered and quit and he didn't know why. I figured it
>had to be electrical or a fuel problem. I was right. He had run the
>plane out of fuel. The wings had to be removed and put on a truck back
>to the airport. Unfortunately instead of disconnecting the wires and
>tubing, they just cut them.
>
>He and his passenger were very lucky, and I am pretty lucky too. I'm
>reporting this to say be careful who you let fly your plane, and please
>make sure you check your fuel before leaving. I will be back up and
>flying probably by the end of the week but I'm not sure I'll let anyone
>else fly my plane again unless I'm with them. I know stuff happens, but
>this was just plain stupidity.
>John
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | RE: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Last itme I looked on the Van's site they said they were thinking of
pulled rivets...That would be a mistake if they go the solid rivet path.
IM (everso) HO...:)
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the
RV-12
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
The biggest difference between the RV-12 and the Zenith aircraft (aside
from the number flying) is that one uses blind rivets amd one uses
conventional ones.
-- Craig
Rusty <13brv3c@bellsouth.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Condon,Philip M."
-->
Vans newsletter posted some more data on the RV-12 . Anyone looking at a
Zenith might study the RV-12. Admittedly biased, since I built 2 RV's in
the past......
-----------------------------------------------
Greetings,
I just signed on here to check out the XL a little closer. I've built
two RV's also, an -8 and a Mazda rotary powered -3B. I just sold the
-3B, and I think either an XL or an RV-12 could be in my semi-near
future. I love Van's products, and their business practices, but I've
also been pretty impressed with what I've seen on the Zenith web page as
well.
Cheers,
Rusty (soaking up XL info)
Do not archive
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | RE: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hmmm....I really have to disagree there. When I was purchasing my RV7
kit they were very open to the Eggenfelner Soob conversion, simply
stating that you delete the Van's engine mount and buy the whole Egg
kit...No problem.
Since then questions have arisen about the effect of additional cooling
drag of a water cooled motor in a fast plane like the RV...Oh and they
did have a little vapour lock incident on take off too...guess where the
fuel pumps were mounted Roy?...:)...Airplane wasn't too badly wrecked
fourtunatly.
But I digress. Van's simply state their (hard to argue) position that
overall a Lycoming is the best choice for an RV...But remember this is a
200mph airplane, very different to a zodiac. It is rumoured that an egg
powered RV costs 25mph of cruise speed for the same fuel flow...Once
again even though there are a lot of water cooled RV's Van's had not had
the opportunity to do a back to back flyoff so they cannot recommend one
based on their experience.
Note that ZAC was really built around the Rotax and Stratus set up for
quite a few years before the Jab came out. Other than that you really
are rolling your own or buying a third party FWF kit if you want a
different motor.
Having been with both companies I see it as the same deal.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the
RV-12
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
As a Corvair-XL builder I am betting that Van's will be a lot less open
to alternative engines than Zenith. The description from Van's makes it
sounds like the design is built around the Rotax engine. Just a guess.
-- Craig
"Condon,Philip M." <pcondon@mitre.org> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Condon,Philip M."
Vans newsletter posted some more data on the RV-12 . Anyone looking at a
Zenith might study the RV-12. Admittedly biased, since I built 2 RV's in
the past......
Message 21
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| Subject: | RE: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
And like Allen Van's is Just UP the road from me...Sure cuts down on
shipping costs using that U haul....:)
Frank
Corvallis
HDS
Do not archive
Message 22
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| Subject: | RE: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the |
RV-12
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net> RV-12
Just a few comments I've noticed on the differences between Van's and
Zenith kits:
Van's kits are drilled exactly where the holes belong - thanks to the
huge computer controlled punch that does the drilling. Zenith hole
locations are more vague. You can use Van's holes for alignment of
parts, but you will regret doing the same thing with Zenith
parts. You must align the parts with squares or other tools to get
them in the right places.
Van's uses 2024 aluminum alloy while Zenith uses 6061. This has
significance when it comes to natural corrosion resistance. The 6061
can be left unprimed on the inner parts according to advice I got
from EAA experts - so long as you are not planning on keeping it near
salt water or very ugly atmospheres. This might be unwise with
2024. The "Alclad" coating on 2024 means you must be paranoid about
scratches if you want any sort of corrosion resistance.
Of course there is the issue of blind rivets vs. dimpled solid rivets.
Paul
XL wings
At 08:36 AM 9/20/2005, you wrote:
>just signed on here to check out the XL a little closer. I've built two
>RV's also, an -8 and a Mazda rotary powered -3B. I just sold the -3B, and I
>think either an XL or an RV-12 could be in my semi-near future. I love
>Van's products, and their business practices, but I've also been pretty
>impressed with what I've seen on the Zenith web page as well.
>
>Cheers,
>Rusty (soaking up XL info)
>
>Do not archive
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 23
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| Subject: | RE: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" <bjohnson@satx.rr.com>
Yup,
From reading the latest update, anything remotely heavier would take it out
of w&b.
This will be a very interesting project to follow.
-Bruce J. Sonex Scratch Builder (still interested in Zodiac etc, not to
mention RVs)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
As a Corvair-XL builder I am betting that Van's will be a lot less open to
alternative engines than Zenith. The description from Van's makes it sounds
like the design is built around the Rotax engine. Just a guess.
-- Craig
"Condon,Philip M." <pcondon@mitre.org> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Condon,Philip M."
Vans newsletter posted some more data on the RV-12 . Anyone looking at
a Zenith might study the RV-12. Admittedly biased, since I built 2 RV's
in the past......
--
--
Message 24
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| Subject: | Close Call Follow Up |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Firstly you will of course be requiring your friend to pay for the A&P
time to get your plane back to the flying condition it was before he
borrowed it.
I never heared of anyone having a problem with a sight guage on a header
tank (I have LE tanks only)
I dissagree, I don't think they are blaming your plane at all, Sounds to
me like they are building a case against your friend and you have no
choice to log exactly as they are requiring you to do. In other words
they are going to eliminate your plane as being faulty with the written
testimony of the A&P in your logbook and compare that to the statement
in your logbook of what the pilot reported.
I bet they will come down on him like a ton of bricks when they have
assigned the true cause.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of john H
Subject: Zenith-List: Close Call Follow Up
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "john H" <professor71@hotmail.com>
Just to let you all know, I finally got a call from the FAA wanting
details about the incident. They are requiring me to write in my log
that the pilot reported 6-8 gallons of fuel in the tank at take-off. I
have to have an AP check out my site gauge and verify its accuracy. Send
a fax of my log book with the verification to them before the plane is
allowed to fly again. This means I have to have an AP drain the gas out
of the plane and refill it 2-3 times to verify the accuaracy. I know
the gauge is accurate because I put 5 gallons in when I got backto the
airport and it came just a hair above the 5 gallon mark on the gauge.
Once the gas was in, I started the engine and when the fuel got to the
cylinders it fired right up and ran fine. Seems like they are blaming
the plane for pilot stupidity.
They also recommended that I contact Zenith to ask if they have ever
encountered a problem with this type of set up before. I probably won't
do this but I will ask the list if anyone else has ever encountered this
problem. I don't see a problem with this set up and have found it to be
extremely accurate since the plane has been flying. I trust this method
more than any mechanical gauge. The other recomendation was to stick the
tank to verify that the site gauge is accurate which I always do when
flying GA aircraft with mechanical gauges and will do from now on with
my plane.
John
Message 25
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| Subject: | RE: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
That's funny,
RV builders have what they call "primer wars"...Vans' is adament that
every square millimeter of the 6061 they use in the RV MUST be primed,
the alclad is optional.
Then when I got my RV QB kit it was assembled with no primer at all...it
had been alodined or some such.
So you have these RV's guys who maticulously spray literally everything
in site, adding a lot of weight in the process and certainly quite a bit
of time, especially as a lot of them alodine as well!
Guess what I did?...Yup, just built it like I did the Zac and rattle can
sprayed the mating surfaces and any deep scratches in the alclad.
Building a Zodiac first certainly has it advantages...You already have a
Pneumatic puller for the heavy steel pop rivets that Vans does
occasionally use...:)
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Mulwitz
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the
RV-12
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
--> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net> RV-12
Just a few comments I've noticed on the differences between Van's and
Zenith kits:
Van's kits are drilled exactly where the holes belong - thanks to the
huge computer controlled punch that does the drilling. Zenith hole
locations are more vague. You can use Van's holes for alignment of
parts, but you will regret doing the same thing with Zenith parts. You
must align the parts with squares or other tools to get them in the
right places.
Van's uses 2024 aluminum alloy while Zenith uses 6061. This has
significance when it comes to natural corrosion resistance. The 6061
can be left unprimed on the inner parts according to advice I got from
EAA experts - so long as you are not planning on keeping it near
salt water or very ugly atmospheres. This might be unwise with
2024. The "Alclad" coating on 2024 means you must be paranoid about
scratches if you want any sort of corrosion resistance.
Of course there is the issue of blind rivets vs. dimpled solid rivets.
Paul
XL wings
At 08:36 AM 9/20/2005, you wrote:
>just signed on here to check out the XL a little closer. I've built
>two RV's also, an -8 and a Mazda rotary powered -3B. I just sold the
>-3B, and I think either an XL or an RV-12 could be in my semi-near
>future. I love Van's products, and their business practices, but I've
>also been pretty impressed with what I've seen on the Zenith web page
as well.
>
>Cheers,
>Rusty (soaking up XL info)
>
>Do not archive
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 26
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| Subject: | 601HDS sport pilot eligible?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
Remember, the airspeed limitations in the FARs refer to calibrated airspeeds not
indicated airspeeds. In most aircraft, at speeds near stall, IAS is significantly
lower than CAS so you are moving faster than the ASI is telling you.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Actually mine is 50.999mph...:)
>
> Infact as far as I can tell from the wiggly ASI needle it really does
> stall right around 50mph so yes I would say it is compatible.
> Frank
Message 27
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| Subject: | RE: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
Could be. I was basing my guess on this:
"The big difference is that the RV-12 will have a "cabin forward" configuration.
In other words, the seats will be forward of the main spar instead of on top
of it as they are in the other two-seat RVs. This is possible because of the
light weight of the 100 hp Rotax 912S four-cylinder, four-stroke, water/air-cooled
engine. Center of gravity considerations do require that the engine be mounted
close to the firewall."
This would seem to rule out heavier engines like the Corvair. Maybe a Subaru would
be light enough although William Wynne will argue all day long the the Corvair
and the Subaru end up weighing about the same.
-- Craig
"Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
Hmmm....I really have to disagree there. When I was purchasing my RV7
kit they were very open to the Eggenfelner Soob conversion, simply
stating that you delete the Van's engine mount and buy the whole Egg
kit...No problem.
Since then questions have arisen about the effect of additional cooling
drag of a water cooled motor in a fast plane like the RV...Oh and they
did have a little vapour lock incident on take off too...guess where the
fuel pumps were mounted Roy?...:)...Airplane wasn't too badly wrecked
fourtunatly.
But I digress. Van's simply state their (hard to argue) position that
overall a Lycoming is the best choice for an RV...But remember this is a
200mph airplane, very different to a zodiac. It is rumoured that an egg
powered RV costs 25mph of cruise speed for the same fuel flow...Once
again even though there are a lot of water cooled RV's Van's had not had
the opportunity to do a back to back flyoff so they cannot recommend one
based on their experience.
Note that ZAC was really built around the Rotax and Stratus set up for
quite a few years before the Jab came out. Other than that you really
are rolling your own or buying a third party FWF kit if you want a
different motor.
Having been with both companies I see it as the same deal.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the
RV-12
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Payne
As a Corvair-XL builder I am betting that Van's will be a lot less open
to alternative engines than Zenith. The description from Van's makes it
sounds like the design is built around the Rotax engine. Just a guess.
-- Craig
"Condon,Philip M."
wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Condon,Philip M."
Vans newsletter posted some more data on the RV-12 . Anyone looking at a
Zenith might study the RV-12. Admittedly biased, since I built 2 RV's in
the past......
Message 28
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| Subject: | engine/601 combo and insurance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rick Framil" <rickframil@gmail.com>
What engine/601 combinations have had the best results with obtaining
insurance or at least decent insurance rates?
Rick
Message 29
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| Subject: | engine/601 combo and insurance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Allen Ricks" <allenricks@verizon.net>
I spoke to an agent briefly at Arlington about this. He stated the
insurers have the most experience with the Rotax 912 series, and it
is used in certified aircraft, so it's the easiest. He didn't think
the Jabiru was much problem as there are a bunch of those flying, and it
is a purpose built engine with a somewhat "standard" installation.
He stated that insurers get nervous with any auto conversion for two
reasons.
One is the lack of experience with most of them, and the other was auto
conversion don't generally come with a "standard" installation, so there
are more opportunities to make mistakes.
He was unwilling to generalize in any way about premiums because so much of
the premium is based on pilot experience, plane design, blah, blah, blah.
After talking to him I think I will go with either the Rotax or Jabiru
because
I think that you may save back the price difference between the "name"
brands
and the conversion if you want hull insurance on your plane.
As experience with sorting the Jabiru grows, I'm leaning more that
direction.
It appears that the excessive fuel flow problems have been solved, and many
of
the smaller issues I have seen people complaining about seem to be being
dealt
with by the manufacturer.
Allen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick Framil
Subject: Zenith-List: engine/601 combo and insurance
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rick Framil" <rickframil@gmail.com>
What engine/601 combinations have had the best results with obtaining
insurance or at least decent insurance rates?
Rick
Message 30
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| Subject: | N601LG First Flight! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
Thanks All!
So, to the questions:
- Screws in the skin: These had to be the same spacing has the rivets,
since that was really the only thing I could do as the firewall and
panel were already fluted. I ended up with about 75 #8/32 screws going
into nutplates. I borrowed a pneumatic dimpler from an RV builder (so
you'll be OK there Frank!). I didn't ask ZAC. This is structural, but
WAY stronger than rivets with that many screws. Probably adds some
weight. I pondered on this mod but I don't regret it one bit. DO IT! I
had to cut the 'ears' off the top skin and make seperate ones, but this
was just as well, since I bent them several times getting the hinge to
fit right (ugh).
- Laptop: Yep, you guessed it - gathering EIS data. I wired a DB9 to the
EIS serial out + ground. I took the laptop on most ground tests, and the
test flights. Its *great* to be able to look at the data in the
evening, in a chair on the ground with a cool beer to aid digestion :-)
I asked GRT for the EISLog utility to run on the laptop - which they
send out with a serial port connection instruction sheet too. I may
write myself some graphical software to display this real-time in the
air.
- Trim: I'm tiny. ~120lbs. I was near forward CG. I couldn't trim hands
off, since I (just) ran out of nose up trim. Putting the flaps in made
it worse of course. When I landed from the first flight, I felt like
popeye. So....before going full fuel, I put "Pierre, the plaster of
paris" bag in the front of the baggage shelf behind the right seat. With
full fuel I could trim hands off. Nice! Once the flaps started in, back
to holding stick nose up. I have a baggage carpet to go in yet, so I'm
going to see how that does.
I think the larger (wider) trim tab is a must. I'll probably retro-fit
it in the next week or so. If only I could get fat, I wouldn't need
this. Shame.
- Numbers: For the first flight, I let the airplane fly itself off by
holding a tiny bit of back stick after 60kts. Elec Fuel pump was on the
whole flight too. I climed at 80kts to 1000AGL, then 90, then 100.
Pulled power (to cool CHT's which touched 340 for a second). I circled
to 5000ft. Did some slow flight. 70kts fine. At 60kts my right wing
started dropping although I had no oil-can or mush. I was trying a very
shallow turn to test musy controls, so that was obviously it. More
testing there to do yet.
I think my airspeed maybe a couple of knots high. I got 2800RPM out of
the Jabiru. 116 kts on the first flight, 120kts on the second. I've not
tried for speed yet (until I fix the trim).
Flying the pattern at ~80kts. Final 80 then 70, "2 seconds" worth of
flaps (out of 7.5 seconds of travel which is about 24 degrees). Didn't
want more in case of a go around. Long slow flare out from 70 to 60 to
below - easy to 'feel' the elevator/nose up in the landing. Didn't need
any more flaps (why the heck do we need 'em!?). Squeek. Phew!
That was my story and I'm sticking to it!
Its wierd to be out of building mode. *What* a feeling. Builders: keep
up the building - it is SOOOO worth it.
Cheers,
..lance
http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
N601LG 2.7 hours
Message 31
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| Subject: | N601LG First Flight! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Cool!
Rather than flying so close to the forward limit (actually so do I but
it allows me to load up and go, never done a W&B calc since I finished
building) how about moving the battery aft if you havent' done so
already?..You might pick up a bit of speed as well..
Just a thought.
Frank...and I'll probably never get around to substituting the rivets
for screws...But the next owner could..:)
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance
Gingell
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: N601LG First Flight!
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell"
--> <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
- Numbers: For the first flight, I let the airplane fly itself off by
holding a tiny bit of back stick after 60kts. Elec Fuel pump was on the
whole flight too. I climed at 80kts to 1000AGL, then 90, then 100.
Pulled power (to cool CHT's which touched 340 for a second). I circled
to 5000ft. Did some slow flight. 70kts fine. At 60kts my right wing
started dropping although I had no oil-can or mush. I was trying a very
shallow turn to test musy controls, so that was obviously it. More
testing there to do yet.
I think my airspeed maybe a couple of knots high. I got 2800RPM out of
the Jabiru. 116 kts on the first flight, 120kts on the second. I've not
tried for speed yet (until I fix the trim).
Flying the pattern at ~80kts. Final 80 then 70, "2 seconds" worth of
flaps (out of 7.5 seconds of travel which is about 24 degrees). Didn't
want more in case of a go around. Long slow flare out from 70 to 60 to
below - easy to 'feel' the elevator/nose up in the landing. Didn't need
any more flaps (why the heck do we need 'em!?). Squeek. Phew!
That was my story and I'm sticking to it!
Its wierd to be out of building mode. *What* a feeling. Builders: keep
up the building - it is SOOOO worth it.
Cheers,
..lance
http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
N601LG 2.7 hours
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: N601LG First Flight! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Dave Gardea <dgardea@gmail.com>
Lance,
Thanks for your response. Your words are both encouraging and motivating. I
am only 3 months into building my 601XL and certainly have a long way to go,
but shared experiences like yours helps me keep that final goal in focus.
Regards,
Dave Gardea
601XL tail done, wings underway, disassembling Corvair core
http://dgardea.mybesthost.com
do not archive
On 9/20/05, Lance Gingell <lgingell@matrix-logic.com> wrote:
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" <
> lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
>
> Thanks All!
>
> So, to the questions:
> .............
>
Its wierd to be out of building mode. *What* a feeling. Builders: keep
> up the building - it is SOOOO worth it.
>
> Cheers,
> ..lance
> http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
> N601LG 2.7 hours
>
>
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Re: CH601 HDS with Jabiru 2200 performance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH601 HDS with Jabiru 2200 performance
I did it again!!
do not archive
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: 601HDS sport pilot eligible?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601HDS sport pilot eligible??
All-
Didn't someone in Colorado just have a posting to sell an HDS that was
SP eligible because it had vortex generators? I'd like to see some more
information on the VGs, because that sounds more like the type of
verifiable engineering solution the FAA would buy into.
Bill
601HDS
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: 601HDS sport pilot eligible?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody@cox.net>
Go to
www.landshorter.com
Check out their VG sets.
Ed Moody II
>
> From: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
> Date: 2005/09/20 Tue PM 06:25:59 EDT
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601HDS sport pilot eligible??
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601HDS sport pilot eligible??
>
>
> All-
> Didn't someone in Colorado just have a posting to sell an HDS that was
> SP eligible because it had vortex generators? I'd like to see some more
> information on the VGs, because that sounds more like the type of
> verifiable engineering solution the FAA would buy into.
> Bill
> 601HDS
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Re: RE: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Samm Munn" <heliav8r@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Zenith-List Vans has mere details on the RV-12
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Samm Munn" <heliav8r@swbell.net>
>
> Since I'm building from scratch, the alignment will be up to me and I
intend
> to be damned precise.
Sam-
Considering I had to rebuild my outboard wings by hand after a
disasterous beginning, I probably would have been just as far ahead building
the whole plane from scratch. I think you're better off because you're
intimately familiar with every line and dimension on the drawings, something
you would expect wasn't necessary when building from a kit. With a few
exceptions, the drawings are top notch- the builder's manual is the problem.
Unfortunately, being "Damned Precise" isn't good enough, unless you're
not human. I GUARANTEE you you'll still have a brain-fart and kink a skin,
run an assembly into a doorknob, or come up with an extra hole that you
swear was drilled by aliens. Look at Larry Mac's plane. From the pictures on
his website, it's flawless, yet when I recently asked when he was going to
get around to painting it, he said "I'm still trying to come up with a color
scheme that will hide all the garfs and wrinkles."
The way I'm going, I think I'll paint mine camo. You know, like those 50
year old Swiss Cheese Jeeps people turn into woods whoopies.
Incidentally, I've seen some butt-ugly rivet lines on RVs, and a
gorgeous Zenith. I would have loved to see matched hole drilling in my kit,
but it only works when you hit the hole!
Bill
do not archive
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: 601HDS sport pilot eligible?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "R. Saarinen" <sales@steelframe.com.au>
Every airplane is different of course but here's one of my testimonials for
the HDS:
"My only recommendation would be to forget the temporary installation- they
work. The clean airplane was stalling at 48 <solo>, your VGs bring it down
to 41.5. I very easily qualify for sport pilot category now. I was very
pleased with the increased stability in the landing pattern. I've done a lot
of stall work, I was a test pilot for Continental with the 737s and also a
test pilot for the military before that." Stan Challgren, Zenith 601HDS,
Evergreen, CO
This is pretty standard, most folks see about 10%-15% reduction in stall
speed and the HDS is a good candidate.
Let me know if you would like to try some, thanks Ron.
Joa
www.landshorter.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601HDS sport pilot eligible??
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk"
> <billn@velocity.net>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601HDS sport pilot eligible??
>
>
> All-
> Didn't someone in Colorado just have a posting to sell an HDS that was
> SP eligible because it had vortex generators? I'd like to see some more
> information on the VGs, because that sounds more like the type of
> verifiable engineering solution the FAA would buy into.
> Bill
> 601HDS
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Re: engine/601 combo and insurance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" <armyret@one-eleven.net>
Rick- The only combo that I have heard that has problems is the
Zenith-Corvair that is converted by anyone other than WW. Buy one that he
has personally converted and it seems that there is no problem. This should
change in time with more conversions coming on line.
Al Young
601XL- Jab 3300
Do not archive
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Close Call Follow Up |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
I was thinking that also, They need all the good cards to show their hand...
Yes, at least he has to pay for the AP bills, is a bargain for him,
As we say here. "The best way to learn is when the punishment goes all the way
to the wallet... "
I dont know him, but sure I will like him to "learn and survive". Could become
a great Pilot.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
"Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
Firstly you will of course be requiring your friend to pay for the A&P
time to get your plane back to the flying condition it was before he
borrowed it.
I never heared of anyone having a problem with a sight guage on a header
tank (I have LE tanks only)
I dissagree, I don't think they are blaming your plane at all, Sounds to
me like they are building a case against your friend and you have no
choice to log exactly as they are requiring you to do. In other words
they are going to eliminate your plane as being faulty with the written
testimony of the A&P in your logbook and compare that to the statement
in your logbook of what the pilot reported.
I bet they will come down on him like a ton of bricks when they have
assigned the true cause.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of john H
Subject: Zenith-List: Close Call Follow Up
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "john H"
Just to let you all know, I finally got a call from the FAA wanting
details about the incident. They are requiring me to write in my log
that the pilot reported 6-8 gallons of fuel in the tank at take-off. I
have to have an AP check out my site gauge and verify its accuracy. Send
a fax of my log book with the verification to them before the plane is
allowed to fly again. This means I have to have an AP drain the gas out
of the plane and refill it 2-3 times to verify the accuaracy. I know
the gauge is accurate because I put 5 gallons in when I got backto the
airport and it came just a hair above the 5 gallon mark on the gauge.
Once the gas was in, I started the engine and when the fuel got to the
cylinders it fired right up and ran fine. Seems like they are blaming
the plane for pilot stupidity.
They also recommended that I contact Zenith to ask if they have ever
encountered a problem with this type of set up before. I probably won't
do this but I will ask the list if anyone else has ever encountered this
problem. I don't see a problem with this set up and have found it to be
extremely accurate since the plane has been flying. I trust this method
more than any mechanical gauge. The other recomendation was to stick the
tank to verify that the site gauge is accurate which I always do when
flying GA aircraft with mechanical gauges and will do from now on with
my plane.
John
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: N601LG First Flight! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" <armyret@one-eleven.net>
Lance- Thanks for the info on your flight. One last question- Did you
leave any power in on final after reaching the threshold? The reason I am
so interested is that last May, I dove my XL -3300 into the runway by
cutting power at the threshold, like I was trying to land a 172. I am still
re-building. In order to maintain the 80 indicated, how much power (RPM)
did you have until the flair.? Sorry for all the questions, but I have
spent the summer wondering why I busted up a darn nice airplane.
Regards,
Al Young
Do Not Archive
Message 41
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|
| Subject: | Re: 601HDS sport pilot eligible?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: <dredmoody@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: 601HDS sport pilot eligible??
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody@cox.net>
>
> Go to
>
> www.landshorter.com
>
> Check out their VG sets.
>
> Ed Moody II
Thanks, Ed. Will do.
Bill
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: 601HDS sport pilot eligible?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
Thanks, guys.
I'm a ways away from the installation stage, but this makes me feel A
LOT better. Adding the site to my address book now.
I think you ought to archive this one!
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "R. Saarinen" <sales@steelframe.com.au>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601HDS sport pilot eligible??
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "R. Saarinen" <sales@steelframe.com.au>
>
> Every airplane is different of course but here's one of my testimonials
for
> the HDS:
>
> "My only recommendation would be to forget the temporary installation-
they
> work. The clean airplane was stalling at 48 <solo>, your VGs bring it down
> to 41.5. I very easily qualify for sport pilot category now. I was very
> pleased with the increased stability in the landing pattern. I've done a
lot
> of stall work, I was a test pilot for Continental with the 737s and also a
> test pilot for the military before that." Stan Challgren, Zenith 601HDS,
> Evergreen, CO
>
> This is pretty standard, most folks see about 10%-15% reduction in stall
> speed and the HDS is a good candidate.
>
> Let me know if you would like to try some, thanks Ron.
>
> Joa
> www.landshorter.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601HDS sport pilot eligible??
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk"
> > <billn@velocity.net>
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
> > To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601HDS sport pilot eligible??
> >
> >
> > All-
> > Didn't someone in Colorado just have a posting to sell an HDS that
was
> > SP eligible because it had vortex generators? I'd like to see some more
> > information on the VGs, because that sounds more like the type of
> > verifiable engineering solution the FAA would buy into.
> > Bill
> > 601HDS
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | Re: 2 piece canopy , 601 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig <n601xs@comcast.net>
Rick,
I saw that plane on Zenith's site some time ago and thought about doing a sliding canopy as well. The main concern I had was that the rails would be somewhat intrusive where room was needed the most. I designed a cantilever hinge instead. The canopy is a custom job from http://www.toddscanopies.com/ and is a little longer with a couple inches additional headroom. It can be seen on his site under 'modified ch601'. It would work with the stock hardware but I also wanted a fixed windshield. I have completed the hinge installation and am quite happy with how it works. I am putting the finishing touches on the trim but have some pictures of the system I can e-mail you if you are interested. The pictures (on Todd's site) show the windshield brace installed before I cut the canopy.
Craig Spainhower
N601XS, 601xl 0-235, 90% complete, 90% left
Last year, I had the pleasure of flying in a 601XL with a 2 piece canopy that
was for sale. A year later, I would have to assume that it was sold. You may
be able to track down the current owner provided the tail number did not change.
I liked the safety factor of a fixed wind screen, should the canopy depart.
It also made for easy entry and exit. The craftsmanship was very good and the
design was cleverly done.
I chose not to buy it, in part, because of what appeared to be the additional
weight added by the canopy and what I perceived to be a need to add additional
stiffening to the frame, thus adding more weight. I took some pictures with
my cell phone camera and I have posted them on my community website. They are
not very good but it will give you a feel for how one fellow did it. The link
is:
http://www.eaglesnestestates.org/601xl-jm/
Rick:
I have been planning this same idea for some time now. When I get my engine
installed and running I plan to incorporate a combination forward tilt /
sliding canopy. Stay tuned to www.cooknwithgas.com for details.
Scott Laughlin
601XL / Corvair
Wiring panel and working on engine.
Rick Tedford <rick.tedford@sympatico.ca> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rick Tedford"
Hello Listers : Has anybody seen or know of a 2 pce. canopy design for the 601
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: 601HDS sport pilot eligible?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Lets see now....I'm on a short final with a Lear jet behind me & I'm to
calculate CAS as I cross over the threshold. NOPE, from APV (Apple Valley
3,400) or Big Bear (7,000+) I'll use indicated, even thou I can tell that my
ground speed is faster as Big Bear. KABONG
----- Original Message -----
From: <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601HDS sport pilot eligible??
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
>
> Remember, the airspeed limitations in the FARs refer to calibrated
> airspeeds not indicated airspeeds. In most aircraft, at speeds near stall,
> IAS is significantly lower than CAS so you are moving faster than the ASI
> is telling you.
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
>> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>>
>> Actually mine is 50.999mph...:)
>>
>> Infact as far as I can tell from the wiggly ASI needle it really does
>> stall right around 50mph so yes I would say it is compatible.
>> Frank
>
>
>
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: N601LG First Flight! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Lance, sounds like a couple really great flights. Were those mph or knt
speed readings ? You mentioned about flaps, when everything slows down a bit and
you manage to get all the flap out (and I am guessing I have even though I have
always been too busy just then to look) the ground effect really takes effect
and authority and gently sets her down. I hope you are correct on the "no
building, just flying" part cause I am still spending hours and hours tweaking
and retrofitting, etc. Course I am flying some as well, Hope to hear more real
soon, Bill of Georgia, N505WP, 601XL-3300 w/DC
Message 46
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| Subject: | HD or HDS suitability for Jabiru 2200 85hp |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Darin McLEAN" <darin@dm-electronics.com.au>
Hi everyone,
Just wanted to run a quick concensus from people with experience in flying
HD and HDS aircraft with 80hp to gain some real practical figures.
I intend to build a Zodiac with a Jabiru 2200 engine (85hp) with standard
senheiser prop.
1. Would you think the HD is more suitable than the HDS for the Jabiru 85hp?
2. Would there be much difference in cruise speed between the two?
3. What would you imagine the 75% cruise speed to be for the HD versus HDS
both with wheel pants?
4. Would the climb on the HDS be reasonable (say >600-700fpm)?
5. Please add any additional comments you might have about choosing the
right plane for this engine.
6. I am somehow hoping for a cruise in the 90kts area at the least.
You input would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Darin McLEAN (just starting the CH601 rudder kit)
www.recreationalflying.net
--
Message 47
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| Subject: | 601HDS sport pilot eligible?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Davidson" <jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net>
"My only recommendation would be to forget the temporary installation- they
work. The clean airplane was stalling at 48 <solo>, your VGs bring it down
to 41.5. I very easily qualify for sport pilot category now. I was very
pleased with the increased stability in the landing pattern. I've done a lot
of stall work, I was a test pilot for Continental with the 737s and also a
test pilot for the military before that."
Does anyone else remember reading that the aircraft must have always been in
compliance with LSA criteria since the original Airworthiness Certificate
was issued? My understanding was that you could not modify an existing
aircraft with an airworthiness certificate that didn't meet the criteria to
make it compliant.
Jeff Davidson
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: 601HDS sport pilot eligible?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
Ground speed is higher at Big Bear because true airspeed is higher at the
higher altitude but neither TAS nor ground speed have anything to do with
stall speed. The difference between CAS and IAS has nothing to do with
altitude, it has everything to do with the angle of attack. Since the pitot
tube is generally fixed to the wing, as the angle of attack of the wing
changes, the angle of the pitot tube relative to the airstream changes. The
greater the angle the pitot tube makes with the airstream, the less accurate
it gets, and the worst accuracy occurs at the high angle of attack near
stall. For a given weight and CG, an airplane will stall at about the same
CAS (and IAS) regardless of altitude. Of course you will fly the the plane
according to IAS because that's what you have. When you're flying the
airplane you generally don't care about CAS.
My point was that the FAA doesn't care what the stall speed is in IAS, they
want the stall speed in CAS which will be greater than indicated because at
low airspeeds (high angle of attack) the pitot tube will not be pointed
directly into the airstream. If your airplane stalls at an indicated
airspeed of 45 knots, it probably won't qualify for LSA because for most
aircraft, the CAS will be several knots faster.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
on 9/20/05 9:04 PM, JOHN STARN at jhstarn@verizon.net wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
>
> Lets see now....I'm on a short final with a Lear jet behind me & I'm to
> calculate CAS as I cross over the threshold. NOPE, from APV (Apple Valley
> 3,400) or Big Bear (7,000+) I'll use indicated, even thou I can tell that my
> ground speed is faster as Big Bear. KABONG
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601HDS sport pilot eligible??
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
>>
>> Remember, the airspeed limitations in the FARs refer to calibrated
>> airspeeds not indicated airspeeds. In most aircraft, at speeds near stall,
>> IAS is significantly lower than CAS so you are moving faster than the ASI
>> is telling you.
>>
>>
>>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
>>> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>>>
>>> Actually mine is 50.999mph...:)
>>>
>>> Infact as far as I can tell from the wiggly ASI needle it really does
>>> stall right around 50mph so yes I would say it is compatible.
>>> Frank
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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