---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 10/16/05: 32 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:47 AM - Re: Riveted Gas Tanks (ROBERT SCEPPA) 2. 05:47 AM - Re: CAM 100 (Jean-Paul Roy) 3. 09:19 AM - Re: N414PZ Landing incident (Thilo Kind) 4. 10:17 AM - Re: Riveted Gas Tanks (Bill Morelli) 5. 11:13 AM - cam 100 engine (jcl64) 6. 12:26 PM - Cortec () 7. 12:31 PM - Re: Re: Riveted Gas Tanks (peeled sealant) (Gary Gower) 8. 01:17 PM - Solvent (William J. Naumuk) 9. 01:30 PM - Re: Re: Riveted Gas Tanks (peeled sealant) (Paul Mulwitz) 10. 01:39 PM - Re: Solvent (Crvsecretary@AOL.COM) 11. 01:41 PM - Re: Solvent () 12. 01:47 PM - Re: Solvent (Edward Moody II) 13. 01:51 PM - Re: Solvent (Tony & Peggy Pierce) 14. 01:55 PM - Re: Solvent (doug kandle) 15. 02:13 PM - Re: solvent (fred sanford) 16. 02:18 PM - Re: Solvent (Elwood140@aol.com) 17. 02:22 PM - Re: Solvent () 18. 03:15 PM - unlist (Steve Schmidt) 19. 03:22 PM - Re: Re: Riveted Gas Tanks (Larry McFarland) 20. 03:28 PM - Re: Solvent (Larry McFarland) 21. 03:30 PM - Re: Re: Riveted Gas Tanks (peeled sealant) (Gary Gower) 22. 04:21 PM - Re: Zodiac XL & Jabiru 3300 & Auxiliary Electric (Bryan Martin) 23. 04:23 PM - Re: Solvent (William J. Naumuk) 24. 05:37 PM - Re: Solvent (Paul Mulwitz) 25. 06:08 PM - Re: Re: Riveted Gas Tanks (jnbolding1) 26. 06:28 PM - Re: aileron hinge conversion (Matt & Jo) 27. 06:50 PM - How high can a 601HD go? (Bruce Bockius) 28. 07:26 PM - instruments of value (Paul Hartl) 29. 08:55 PM - Accident involving Young Eagles (kevinbonds) 30. 08:58 PM - Re: Re: Riveted Gas Tanks (peeled sealant) (Leo Corbalis) 31. 09:58 PM - Re: Solvent (Tebenkof@aol.com) 32. 10:09 PM - Re: Wheels or floats first, 701? (Tebenkof@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:23 AM PST US From: ROBERT SCEPPA Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Riveted Gas Tanks --> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA > Gary, some years ago I built a tank made from 5052 > aluminum and I used soft rivets to hold it together > and then had it heliarc welded. Work out fine. > Bob Scepppa --- "Gary A. Boothe" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary A. Boothe" > > > Listers, > > I am considering building my metal fuel tanks using > the flanged, riveted method as described on the EAA > Homebuilders site. Anyone have some insights on > that? Obviously, I am aware of some of the benefits > of welded joints, so I would like to focus on the > successful applications of rivets and sealers. > > Gary Boothe, Cool, Ca > > 601HDSTD, WW Corvair Conv. - complete > Tail Group - complete. Working on Wings... > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:05 AM PST US From: "Jean-Paul Roy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CAM 100 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" Thanks Grant for the infos Jean-Paul do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Corriveau" Subject: Zenith-List: CAM 100 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau > > > > Grant, how do you make out with your Cam 100. Would you recommend it for a > > 701. Thanks > > Jean-Paul (just ordered my plans) Roy > > This summer the engine has been performing reliably, but altogether I still > only have about 40 hours on it. I believe that the CAM100/125 engines are > an excellent concept, but my particular engine has had some quality control > issues that have caused me a lot of lost time over the past few years. > > I think it would be too heavy for the 701. The total installation of the > CAM100 works out to about 80 lbs heavier than a Rotax 912. > > -- > Grant Corriveau > C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100 > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:19:51 AM PST US From: "Thilo Kind" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N414PZ Landing incident --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" Hi everybody, I tend to believe, that those landing gear nicidents are single cases and not a design flaw or such. Never had any trouble with the landing gear on my 601 HDS (nose gear), even though many of my landings are hard on the gear (if you know, what I mean...). Happy flying Thilo Kind ----- Original Message ----- From: "ron dewees" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N414PZ Landing incident > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees > > Hi Paul, > Thanks so much for the heads- up on the bearings. You really have me > paranoid now since Jim in North Carolina had a gear leg weld break and > lost a wheel on landing a couple of weeks ago! Please let us know what > Matco says or offers. > If there is any external way to tell the bearings apart without > disassembling the wheel. I really don't need another thing to worry > about with rolling parts. Last night my Matco brakes let me down and I > coasted thru a fence and am doing a main wing skin replacement today. > It's not been a good month for Matco/ZAC users in the wheel department. > Thanks > Ron 601HDS taildragger/Jab 3300 94 hours > > do not archive > > Paul Hartl wrote: > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Hartl" > > > >Last evening, as I made a nearly calm-wind landing at KSUN, my 34th > >landing in 601HDS N414PZ, I heard and felt unpretty sounds and > >vibrations from my right main wheel. It wasn't violent, but it was > >distinctly not right, either. As I limped back, slowly, to my tie-down, > >it became clear that I wouldn't be doing anymore flying for a while. An > >inspection in this morning's light revealed detroyed bearing parts > >hanging out on the axel, which, upon removal of the wheel revealed a > >most unexpected sight. My main wheels - made by Matco and supplied as > >part of my kit by Zenith in June of 1998, did not contain the tapered > >roller bearings that my Matco drawings show, but instead contained ball > >bearings! According to the Matco instructions that came with my wheels, > >the front wheel contains ball bearings, but the mains contain tapered > >roller bearings. A mixup, perhaps? Not on my part - because the front > >wheel doesn't have the weld points for the brake rotor - only the mains > >have these, so it wasn't me that mixed up parts - this must have > >occurred at Matco. I doubt if Zenith knew (or even could have known), > >as they probably don't look much different from the outside - but this > >is just one more example of poor Matco workmanship. So beware Matco > >wheel owners - these are crappy products, and I am none to pleased to be > >using them on my aircraft. > > > >I will be talking to Matco on Monday, and will report back to you then. > >Oh, otherwise, she flies great! > > > > > >Paul Hartl, N414PZ, 601HDS/Jabiru 3300A, 23 hrs > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:17:52 AM PST US From: "Bill Morelli" Subject: Zenith-List: re: Riveted Gas Tanks --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Morelli" I have a 601 HDS that has welded leading edge tanks that were supplied by ZAC. When I built the aircraft in 1999, I had pressure tested the tanks before installing them. After 113 flight hours, the left LE tank developed a leak (fuel dripping out of wing). I unriveted the leading edge wing skin, removed the tank and found two leaks. It appeared to be welds that had started to crack. Had tank welded and I was back in business.' I now have 432 flight hours and this week I noticed a strong gas smell after filling the tanks. Turns out that the same LE tank is leaking again !! After I take the tank out this time, depending what I find, I may replace the tank or I may have it repaired again and then add sealer to it. Any comments or thoughts about using sealer would be appreciated Regards, Bill (N812BM - 601HDS - Tri - Stratus (RAM Heads) - Vermont - 432.6 flight hrs. - 582 landings web site -> http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:13:59 AM PST US From: "jcl64" Subject: Zenith-List: cam 100 engine --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jcl64" I have a honda cam 100 engine and prop for sale bought from A&P mechanic was told used on a 150 cessena EXP not cert. anymore has approx. 50 hrs make a resonable offer I've never ran the engine was told run great and no problems contact off list jcl64@scccinternet.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:26:12 PM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: Cortec 0.20 FROM_NO_LOWER From address has no lower-case characters --> Zenith-List message posted by: Reguarding the thinning of Cortec, the Flight Crafter people at Sun-n-fun was using water maybe a 50/50 ratio is this a no no? ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:31:21 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: Riveted Gas Tanks (peeled sealant) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Hello Bill and group, Yes, one hands on comment: Just a few weeks ago a friend brought to our shop the aux wing tank of his Kitfox. By the way was the factory demo Kitfox 4 that my friend bought in a show here several years ago, the factory brought it and was flown here... Given this I think that the sealant was professionaly aplied by the KF factory personal of that time. Well, I dont know how many years the sealeant had in the tank to date, but this sealant (white) peeled off like if the aluminum had wax in it... All beguin in a little leak and when the gasoline was (tried) to drain, got cloged, when we got the tank off with the little gas left (about a gallon or two). we noted pieces of white film floating... we pulled pieces about 6 inches sqaure or bigger. The owner decided to scrap the thank and have us build a new one. we opened the top (cut it out) and found most of the sealant in pieces from little (square inch) to big (up to 4 square inches each). We have never used before any sealant so this is all new for us. The new tank will be welded and pressure tested before its instalation. Hope this helps. Saludos Gary Gower. (two) 701 912S Bill Morelli wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Morelli" I have a 601 HDS that has welded leading edge tanks that were supplied by ZAC. When I built the aircraft in 1999, I had pressure tested the tanks before installing them. After 113 flight hours, the left LE tank developed a leak (fuel dripping out of wing). I unriveted the leading edge wing skin, removed the tank and found two leaks. It appeared to be welds that had started to crack. Had tank welded and I was back in business.' I now have 432 flight hours and this week I noticed a strong gas smell after filling the tanks. Turns out that the same LE tank is leaking again !! After I take the tank out this time, depending what I find, I may replace the tank or I may have it repaired again and then add sealer to it. Any comments or thoughts about using sealer would be appreciated Regards, Bill (N812BM - 601HDS - Tri - Stratus (RAM Heads) - Vermont - 432.6 flight hrs. - 582 landings web site -> http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/ --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:17:15 PM PST US From: "William J. Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Solvent --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" All- Neither lighter fluid nor paint thinner seems to work getting off Sharpie Permanent ink. Any suggestions? Bill ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:30:51 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: Riveted Gas Tanks (peeled sealant) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz I wonder if this tank had auto gas in it? It sounds like the sealant was chemically destroyed. That is the sort of thing (not exactly) that I have heard as an impact to putting alcohol laden auto gas into systems not designed to hold up to alcohol. Thanks to our friendly Greenies and the federal government we now get lots of things like alcohol in auto gas that we didn't really want or need. I don't think they have started contaminating avgas with these dangerous additives yet. Just a wild guess. Paul XL wings do not archive At 12:29 PM 10/16/2005, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower > >Hello Bill and group, > >Yes, one hands on comment: > >Just a few weeks ago a friend brought to our shop the aux wing tank >of his Kitfox. By the way was the factory demo Kitfox 4 that my >friend bought in a show here several years ago, the factory brought >it and was flown here... > >Given this I think that the sealant was professionaly aplied by the >KF factory personal of that time. > >Well, I dont know how many years the sealeant had in the tank to >date, but this sealant (white) peeled off like if the aluminum had >wax in it... All beguin in a little leak and when the gasoline >was (tried) to drain, got cloged, when we got the tank off with >the little gas left (about a gallon or two). we noted pieces of >white film floating... we pulled pieces about 6 inches sqaure or bigger. > >The owner decided to scrap the thank and have us build a new >one. we opened the top (cut it out) and found most of the sealant >in pieces from little (square inch) to big (up to 4 square inches each). > >We have never used before any sealant so this is all new for >us. The new tank will be welded and pressure tested before its instalation. > >Hope this helps. > >Saludos >Gary Gower. >(two) 701 912S > >Bill Morelli wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Morelli" > >I have a 601 HDS that has welded leading edge tanks that were supplied by ZAC. > >When I built the aircraft in 1999, I had pressure tested the tanks >before installing them. > >After 113 flight hours, the left LE tank developed a leak (fuel >dripping out of wing). I unriveted the leading edge wing skin, >removed the tank and found two leaks. It appeared to be welds that >had started to crack. Had tank welded and I was back in business.' > >I now have 432 flight hours and this week I noticed a strong gas >smell after filling the tanks. Turns out that the same LE tank is >leaking again !! > >After I take the tank out this time, depending what I find, I may >replace the tank or I may have it repaired again and then add sealer to it. > >Any comments or thoughts about using sealer would be appreciated > >Regards, >Bill (N812BM - 601HDS - Tri - Stratus (RAM Heads) - Vermont - 432.6 >flight hrs. - 582 landings >web site -> http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/ > > >--------------------------------- > > --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:09 PM PST US From: Crvsecretary@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Solvent --> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com Hello Bill: Lacquer thinner does the trick, as does MEK. Try to stay away from the MEK if you can - mighty powerful solvent !! Regards, Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT 601xl N458XL (reserved) do not archive In a message dated 10/16/2005 4:18:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, billn@velocity.net writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" All- Neither lighter fluid nor paint thinner seems to work getting off Sharpie Permanent ink. Any suggestions? Bill ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:33 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Solvent --> Zenith-List message posted by: USE LAQUER THINNER, IT WORKS INSTANTLY.. ----- Original Message ----- From: "William J. Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Solvent > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" > > All- > Neither lighter fluid nor paint thinner seems to work getting off Sharpie Permanent ink. Any suggestions? > Bill > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:47:24 PM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Solvent --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" If you are working with aluminum and there is no plastic involved, you can use laquer thinner. That will dissolve almost anything. Ed Moody II ----- Original Message ----- From: "William J. Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Solvent > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" > > > All- > Neither lighter fluid nor paint thinner seems to work getting off > Sharpie Permanent ink. Any suggestions? > Bill > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:51:15 PM PST US From: "Tony & Peggy Pierce" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Solvent --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tony & Peggy Pierce" Lacquer thinner works well... Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "William J. Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Solvent > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" > > > All- > Neither lighter fluid nor paint thinner seems to work getting off > Sharpie Permanent ink. Any suggestions? > Bill > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:26 PM PST US From: doug kandle Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Solvent --> Zenith-List message posted by: doug kandle Lacquer Thinner works very well. At 02:20 PM 10/16/2005, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" > >All- > Neither lighter fluid nor paint thinner seems to work getting > off Sharpie Permanent ink. Any suggestions? > Bill > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:13:30 PM PST US From: fred sanford Subject: Zenith-List: Re: solvent --> Zenith-List message posted by: fred sanford Lacquer thinner - like gangbusters Fred N9701 6 hours flying do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:05 PM PST US From: Elwood140@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Solvent --> Zenith-List message posted by: Elwood140@aol.com In a message dated 10/16/2005 3:18:49 PM Central Daylight Time, billn@velocity.net writes: Neither lighter fluid nor paint thinner seems to work getting off Sharpie Permanent ink. Any suggestions? Bill, denatured alcohol works well. It's cheap and doesn't smell up the place quite as badly as laquer thinner. do not archive Larry Wood (N701LW getting closer) ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:45 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Solvent --> Zenith-List message posted by: I buy carburetor cleaner from Wal-Mart for less than $1/ can. It is very convenient for touch up cleaning of paint or marker and it leaves no residue. Also it works as a degreaser prior to painting. Gary Ray ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:15:00 PM PST US From: "Steve Schmidt" Subject: Zenith-List: unlist --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Schmidt" please remove my email from your list thanks, From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Solvent --> Zenith-List message posted by: I buy carburetor cleaner from Wal-Mart for less than $1/ can. It is very convenient for touch up cleaning of paint or marker and it leaves no residue. Also it works as a degreaser prior to painting. Gary Ray ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:22:27 PM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: Riveted Gas Tanks --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Bill, The type of edge weld provided by ZACs tanks is extremely delicate and prone to the type of problem you're having. I'd suggest you either replace the tank or add a two layer strip of 3-ounce fiberglass cloth with epoxy along the edges. Surface prep area should extend from an inch or more inboard to an inch or more outboard from the welded edge. I'd also put the strip on the bias so that all fibers would share the loads around the edge. Use epoxy, not polyester resin, for adhesion to the aluminum. You might consider a reweld before this, but it might not be necessary. The epoxy strip would add sufficient strength to the joint and prevent future leaks. Don't think this would mess up your dimensional fit as 3-oz fiberglass is really thin stuff. I'm not fond of internal sealers and it doesn't add any strength to the joint. If the fuel slammed into the drum end of your tank, it might break out completely. Tank material should be a 5052-H32 at .040 or .050 which doesn't edge weld as well as 6061 without adding filler as welding progresses. The "melted edge" weld should be avoided when possible by using a lapped edge weld. More material can be put into the lap and edges which makes for a really strong joint. You can see my welded wing tanks and header tank on the pages of my site if you're curious. I wouldn't give up on repair if both ends could be reinforced with epoxy while the tank was out. Good luck, Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Bill Morelli wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Morelli" > >I have a 601 HDS that has welded leading edge tanks that were supplied by ZAC. > >When I built the aircraft in 1999, I had pressure tested the tanks before installing them. > >After 113 flight hours, the left LE tank developed a leak (fuel dripping out of wing). I unriveted the leading edge wing skin, removed the tank and found two leaks. It appeared to be welds that had started to crack. Had tank welded and I was back in business.' > >I now have 432 flight hours and this week I noticed a strong gas smell after filling the tanks. Turns out that the same LE tank is leaking again !! > >After I take the tank out this time, depending what I find, I may replace the tank or I may have it repaired again and then add sealer to it. > >Any comments or thoughts about using sealer would be appreciated > >Regards, >Bill (N812BM - 601HDS - Tri - Stratus (RAM Heads) - Vermont - 432.6 flight hrs. - 582 landings >web site -> http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/ > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:28:30 PM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Solvent --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Use Acetone Bill, It just wipes off with acetone on a paper towel. Available at Lowe's or Farm N Fleet. Don't breath the fumes or wash your hands with the stuff though. It does penetrate the skin so a little dab will do ya. Larry McFarland do not archive William J. Naumuk wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" > >All- > Neither lighter fluid nor paint thinner seems to work getting off Sharpie Permanent ink. Any suggestions? > Bill > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:30:25 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: Riveted Gas Tanks (peeled sealant) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Yes, was used with only autogas (and oil) for the Rotax 582 engine, but here we dont have alcohol in the gas, as far as I know. Saludos Gary Gower Guadalajara, Mexico. Paul Mulwitz wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz I wonder if this tank had auto gas in it? It sounds like the sealant was chemically destroyed. That is the sort of thing (not exactly) that I have heard as an impact to putting alcohol laden auto gas into systems not designed to hold up to alcohol. Thanks to our friendly Greenies and the federal government we now get lots of things like alcohol in auto gas that we didn't really want or need. I don't think they have started contaminating avgas with these dangerous additives yet. Just a wild guess. Paul XL wings do not archive At 12:29 PM 10/16/2005, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower > >Hello Bill and group, > >Yes, one hands on comment: > >Just a few weeks ago a friend brought to our shop the aux wing tank >of his Kitfox. By the way was the factory demo Kitfox 4 that my >friend bought in a show here several years ago, the factory brought >it and was flown here... > >Given this I think that the sealant was professionaly aplied by the >KF factory personal of that time. > >Well, I dont know how many years the sealeant had in the tank to >date, but this sealant (white) peeled off like if the aluminum had >wax in it... All beguin in a little leak and when the gasoline >was (tried) to drain, got cloged, when we got the tank off with >the little gas left (about a gallon or two). we noted pieces of >white film floating... we pulled pieces about 6 inches sqaure or bigger. > >The owner decided to scrap the thank and have us build a new >one. we opened the top (cut it out) and found most of the sealant >in pieces from little (square inch) to big (up to 4 square inches each). > >We have never used before any sealant so this is all new for >us. The new tank will be welded and pressure tested before its instalation. > >Hope this helps. > >Saludos >Gary Gower. >(two) 701 912S > >Bill Morelli wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Morelli" > >I have a 601 HDS that has welded leading edge tanks that were supplied by ZAC. > >When I built the aircraft in 1999, I had pressure tested the tanks >before installing them. > >After 113 flight hours, the left LE tank developed a leak (fuel >dripping out of wing). I unriveted the leading edge wing skin, >removed the tank and found two leaks. It appeared to be welds that >had started to crack. Had tank welded and I was back in business.' > >I now have 432 flight hours and this week I noticed a strong gas >smell after filling the tanks. Turns out that the same LE tank is >leaking again !! > >After I take the tank out this time, depending what I find, I may >replace the tank or I may have it repaired again and then add sealer to it. > >Any comments or thoughts about using sealer would be appreciated > >Regards, >Bill (N812BM - 601HDS - Tri - Stratus (RAM Heads) - Vermont - 432.6 >flight hrs. - 582 landings >web site -> http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/ > > >--------------------------------- > > --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:21:02 PM PST US Fuel Pump Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL & Jabiru 3300 & Auxiliary Electric Fuel Pump From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin Fuel will not flow backwards easily through most electric fuel pumps so a check valve is not normally needed in the outlet of an electric pump. With high-wing aircraft, because the valve is a few feet lower than the tank, as long as a wing tank has fuel in it the head pressure from that fuel will prevent air from entering the selector valve from the empty tank so no air can get to the pump to prevent it from pumping fuel. In a low-wing aircraft, because the valve is only a few inches below the tank, the head pressure from the wing tanks is not usually enough to ensure that no air can get into the fuel line past the selector valve. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive. on 10/15/05 3:03 PM, Bill Denton at bdenton@bdenton.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" > > What is the current thinking regarding the use of an electric fuel pump as a > backup to the mechanical pump on the Jabiru 3300? > > Are most builders using a backup pump? > > I have noticed that on most fuel system schematics I have seen, a check > valve is used on the outlet side of the mechanical pump to prevent the > electric pump from forcing fuel backwards through the mechanical pump. Is a > check valve also required on the outlet side of the electrical pump? > > On a related not, I have noticed that in most low-wing aircraft that I have > seen, the fuel selector valve only permits a choice of left tank/right tank, > while many high-wing aircraft allow a choice of left tank/right tank/both > tanks. > > Is there some reason why left/right/both selectors are not used on low-wing > airplanes? > > Thanks... > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:23:38 PM PST US From: "William J. Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Solvent --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" ----- Original Message ----- From: "William J. Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Solvent All- The #1 response by 4 to 1 was lacquer thinner. Thanks. do not archive > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:25 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Solvent --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz Just one more opinion - I use Mineral Spirits. It is not as "Hot" a solvent as lacquer thinner, so it often takes two applications with a minute or so in between and a little rubbing to get out magic marker. It is also not as toxic as lacquer thinner. There are many "Hotter" solvents than lacquer thinner. Things like Xylene are popular with professional auto painters. Alas, they tend to get really dumb before dying young. Good luck, Paul XL wings do not archive >All- > The #1 response by 4 to 1 was lacquer thinner. Thanks. > do not archive --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:08:00 PM PST US From: "jnbolding1" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: Riveted Gas Tanks --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" >The type of edge weld provided by ZACs tanks is extremely delicate and >prone to the type of problem you're having. Yep, true enough, have never understood why they use this design on the tanks. >I'd suggest you either replace the tank or add a two layer strip of >3-ounce fiberglass cloth with epoxy along the edges. >Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Before you spend a lot of effort on this type repair please research this technique to your personal satisfaction. While epoxy has MUCH better adhesion than polyester or even vinylester it ain't all that great on aluminum, PROPER pretreatment of alum. requires more effort than just sanding and wiping with solvent. Most epoxys and gasoline don't get along anyway (ask the LongEZE guys) Peel strength on aluminum is very low, try a couple test strips to convince yourself, and leave the strips in a jar of gasoline and recheck every month . LOW&SLOW John Bolding ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:42 PM PST US From: "Matt & Jo" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: aileron hinge conversion --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt & Jo" I haven't flown yet. But I did opt for the hinged ailerons. I followed the plans and got the setup when I bought the kit. It seems to work well. I flew two Xls. Both with the hingeless design. I thought they were a little stiff. Since the pitch is sensitive I am hoping it may give a little better control harmony. Have to wait a while to see. Happy building. Cheers, Matt Archer www.zodiacxl.com. ----- Original Message ----- From: "ron dewees" Subject: Zenith-List: aileron hinge conversion > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees > > Hi listers, > My 601 HDS is down for some maintenance at the time and I have been > giving some thought to converting from hingeless to hinged ailerons. > Don't get me wrong, I have no particular complaint with the hingeless > aileron and think it will last into the next century. I do think it's > stiffer than a hinged aileron and that my ailreon trim is almost useless > because it tries to work against the friction of the wing skin rather > than hinges like the elevator uses. > For anyone who has converted from hingeless to hinged, what has been > your experience, was it worth it, and what kind of piano hinge did you > use. It looks like you need a wide hinge to reach the two rivet lines > and even then, will need a third rivet line to secure the overlapping > edges of the old aileron skin. > Pictures or comments would be very welcome. > Thanks > Ron 601HDS > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:52 PM PST US From: "Bruce Bockius" Subject: Zenith-List: How high can a 601HD go? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bruce Bockius" I had access to a portable O2 system and so decided to find out how high mine could go today. The answer is: I still don't know and won't unless I get an IFR rating to enter Class A airspace. I stopped at 17,500 MSL. Conditions: 9 gallons fuel & 165lb pilot onboard. Temperature at altitude was 19 deg F, RH 22%, press 30.145", which means Density Altitude was 18,697ft. The climb rate was around 100-150fpm. Since I wasn't going to go any closer to FL180 I leveled off and took some readings. Full-throttle RPM on the Stratus EA-81 (highly "detuned") was down to 4100. IAS was 56kts. It took 36 minutes to climb from Meadow Lake Airport (00V, 6840ft), near Colorado Springs to 17500... I guess Bruce Bohannon doesn't have to worry too much ;) I was intersting to have to look down onto Pike's Peak. -Bruce/601HD/TDO/Stratus *************************** Bruce Bockius Black Forest, CO, USA http://www.WhiteAntelopeSoftware.com/zodiac ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:50 PM PST US From: "Paul Hartl" Subject: Zenith-List: instruments of value --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Hartl" Hi List, On a more positive note (than my landing incident note of yesterday), I wanted to add my two cents about the instruments in my panel that I have found most useful in these first 23 hours of test flight time. Perhaps it could help some of you builders in the process of deciding what to include in your panel. A few months ago there was a discussion of ammeter versus voltmeter, with the majority declaring that the voltmeter was the more useful instrument. I don't agree. I have them both, and wouldn't be without either, but I find the ammeter the more useful, because it tells me exactly what is going on every moment in terms of charging and current drain on the battery. With the Jabiru's relatively puny 15-amp alternator, it's really helpful to see how it handles the load from big current-eaters like strobes, nav lights, landing lights, etc., so that you have a good idea of where you stand. If you just go by the voltmeter, it will take a good while before you know that your battery is losing juice, but with the ammeter, you can see it instantaneously. My favorite instrument is the fuel flow meter. It's amazing what a difference a few miles per hour can do to fuel consumption with the Jabiru's carby economy tuning kit installed (I don't know about other engines). Having the fuel flow meter allows me great control over duration - which is key to not running out of gas and squeezing every last dollar out of my fuel money. I have the "Mizer" fuel flow gauge, the cheapest I could find, but it seems to work very well in saving me on my avgas bills. I love my Dynon "EFIS". It may be overkill for a VFR airplane, but it more than replaces the traditional 6- pack, is cheaper, and is far more compact. It also does cool things like calculating density altitude and TAS, and has a great voltmeter function that keeps watch on all 3 of my batteries. It also has AOA! I had the "Anywhere Map" GPS at first, but recently was given a Sporty's exclusive AvMap "GeoPilot", which suits me much better. It's large, bright, and has all the bells and whistles I need. Anyone like to buy my "Anywhere Map" PDA? It's pretty cool in many ways, but not as good as the GeoPilot - unless you want/need a PDA, in which case, it's better. My tiny little XCOM760 transceiver is doing very good work, and has a couple of very nice features, including "dual watch", which allows you to listen to two frequencies at once, a built-in intercom that works very well, music-in that works OK, pilot isolate function, and pre-programmed NOAA weather channels -- all in a 2.25" panel hole, weighing less than 1 lb. An Electronics International digital tachometer (2.25") and Electronics International CHT scanner (2.25"). Probably a more expensive way to go than the Rocky Mountain and new Dynon units, but these units really give you a lot of important, real-time information, and I wouldn't be without them. Well, just wanted to weigh in, and no, I am not sponsored by any of these companies. You builders - keep going; it's a pretty wonderful thing to be flying your own airplane - despite incidents like I had on Friday. And for those of you that sometimes suspect that you don't have the skills to finish a real flying machine - let me say that I had NO SKILLS when I started. NONE. I ruined an awful lot of perfectly good aluminum before I finished, but I learned as I went, and, 7 years later, she really does fly beautifully! -Paul -- Paul Hartl, N414PZ, 601HDS/Jabiru 3300A Flight Simulator 2002/4 Zodiac Website: www.members.cox.net/paulhartl Sun Valley, Idaho 83340 208-788-9147 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:18 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: Zenith-List: Accident involving Young Eagles --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" For anyone who hasn't heard. There was a tragic accident involving two Young Eagles yesterday. http://www.eaa.org/communications/eaanews/pr/051016_ye_loss.html Very sad to hear. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:52 PM PST US From: "Leo Corbalis" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: Riveted Gas Tanks (peeled sealant) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Corbalis" When Ibuilt my HDS wings in 1995 I sloshed the wing tanks with Randolph alcohol resistant slosh. In Calif. we had to put up with MTBE and now alky. I let them dry for over a year in the garage rafters which was pretty warm! So far , So good Leo Corbalis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Gower" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: Riveted Gas Tanks (peeled sealant) > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower > > Yes, was used with only autogas (and oil) for the Rotax 582 engine, > but here we dont have alcohol in the gas, as far as I know. > > Saludos > Gary Gower > Guadalajara, Mexico. > > Paul Mulwitz wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz > > > I wonder if this tank had auto gas in it? > > It sounds like the sealant was chemically destroyed. That is the > sort of thing (not exactly) that I have heard as an impact to putting > alcohol laden auto gas into systems not designed to hold up to > alcohol. Thanks to our friendly Greenies and the federal government > we now get lots of things like alcohol in auto gas that we didn't > really want or need. I don't think they have started contaminating > avgas with these dangerous additives yet. > > Just a wild guess. > > Paul > XL wings > do not archive > > At 12:29 PM 10/16/2005, you wrote: >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower >> >>Hello Bill and group, >> >>Yes, one hands on comment: >> >>Just a few weeks ago a friend brought to our shop the aux wing tank >>of his Kitfox. By the way was the factory demo Kitfox 4 that my >>friend bought in a show here several years ago, the factory brought >>it and was flown here... >> >>Given this I think that the sealant was professionaly aplied by the >>KF factory personal of that time. >> >>Well, I dont know how many years the sealeant had in the tank to >>date, but this sealant (white) peeled off like if the aluminum had >>wax in it... All beguin in a little leak and when the gasoline >>was (tried) to drain, got cloged, when we got the tank off with >>the little gas left (about a gallon or two). we noted pieces of >>white film floating... we pulled pieces about 6 inches sqaure or bigger. >> >>The owner decided to scrap the thank and have us build a new >>one. we opened the top (cut it out) and found most of the sealant >>in pieces from little (square inch) to big (up to 4 square inches each). >> >>We have never used before any sealant so this is all new for >>us. The new tank will be welded and pressure tested before its >>instalation. >> >>Hope this helps. >> >>Saludos >>Gary Gower. >>(two) 701 912S >> >>Bill Morelli wrote: >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Morelli" >> >>I have a 601 HDS that has welded leading edge tanks that were supplied by >>ZAC. >> >>When I built the aircraft in 1999, I had pressure tested the tanks >>before installing them. >> >>After 113 flight hours, the left LE tank developed a leak (fuel >>dripping out of wing). I unriveted the leading edge wing skin, >>removed the tank and found two leaks. It appeared to be welds that >>had started to crack. Had tank welded and I was back in business.' >> >>I now have 432 flight hours and this week I noticed a strong gas >>smell after filling the tanks. Turns out that the same LE tank is >>leaking again !! >> >>After I take the tank out this time, depending what I find, I may >>replace the tank or I may have it repaired again and then add sealer to >>it. >> >>Any comments or thoughts about using sealer would be appreciated >> >>Regards, >>Bill (N812BM - 601HDS - Tri - Stratus (RAM Heads) - Vermont - 432.6 >>flight hrs. - 582 landings >>web site -> http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/ >> >> >>--------------------------------- >> >> > > --------------------------------------------- > Paul Mulwitz > 32013 NE Dial Road > Camas, WA 98607 > --------------------------------------------- > > > --------------------------------- > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:38 PM PST US From: Tebenkof@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Solvent --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com Lacquer quicker, alcohol friendlier. Either will work. Unless the "ink" has been there a long time. Jim Greenough ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:01 PM PST US From: Tebenkof@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wheels or floats first, 701? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com I think Chip is right about you being able to change wheels for floats without any further FAA "help". At least they never know about my old PA12 going from one to the other. ABout learning the 701on wheels first I do not know. Either way sounds like fun. I'm just looking forward to flying. Jim Greenough