Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:21 AM - Plans Vs Photo Guide (Scott Thatcher)
2. 06:51 AM - Re: accurate performance numbers (John)
3. 07:45 AM - Re: Re: accurate performance numbers (Rusty)
4. 07:52 AM - paint jobs (Bob Carlson)
5. 10:30 AM - 601XL - Torque Rod Stop Ring (Paul Moore)
6. 10:34 AM - Re: Re: accurate performance numbers (Paul Moore)
7. 10:43 AM - Re: Re: accurate performance numbers (William J. Naumuk)
8. 10:48 AM - Re: paint jobs (Trevor Page)
9. 12:56 PM - Re: RPM from Sound (Gary Gower)
10. 01:16 PM - Re: Re: accurate performance numbers (Gary Gower)
11. 03:43 PM - Re: paint jobs (Jack Russell)
12. 04:21 PM - Re: Re: accurate performance numbers (Craig Payne)
13. 04:45 PM - Seat front 701 (neitzel)
14. 04:51 PM - Re: 601XL - Torque Rod Stop Ring (mikeandlaurie3@netzero.net)
15. 06:24 PM - Las Vegas (alex trent)
16. 07:07 PM - Removing metal shavings/filings? (Michael Valentine)
17. 07:12 PM - Re: Las Vegas (Todd Osborne)
18. 07:35 PM - Re: Removing metal shavings/filings? (Craig Payne)
19. 09:25 PM - Re: Removing metal shavings/filings? (Paul Mulwitz)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Plans Vs Photo Guide |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Thatcher" <s_thatcher@bellsouth.net>
Hi Paul,
I agree. I started to veer off couse and use the photo guide too much when installing
the sender units for the fuel tank. The photo guide (mine) showed the senders
on the top of the tank and the plans (although very difficult to find)
showed the sender on the side of the tank. I installed mine on the top and will
now have to live with the prospect of either creating an inspection hole on
the leading edge or removing the rivets for the leading edge if the sender unit
fails.
Oh well, live and learn.
Scott Thatcher
601XL with WW Conversion
<Time: 08:43:53 AM PST US
<From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
<Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 6B16-4 width
<--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
<Sometimes it seems like we would be better off without the photo
<assembly guide. It certainly should not be depended on to be
<accurate regarding actual part design.
<It is absolutely necessary to rely on the actual drawings and only
<use the photo assembly guide as a general guide.
<Paul
<XL Wings
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: accurate performance numbers |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John" <jlifer@bellsouth.net>
Rusty, as someone who is still building my plane, I can't give you performance
numbers. But some advice. If you are worried about 5-10mph, then just go on
and get an RV. Zenith has reduced their general specifications in the last year
or so and the design cruise was dropped from 132 to 124mph. That is about
all you can expect. Another thing you are trying to do is install a different
engine. An awful lot is riding on you getting all of that installation done
properly and making it work for you. The XL is a good plane, but as with any
selection, has its limitations.
John
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: accurate performance numbers |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
Hi John,
Thanks for the comments. I've built and flown a couple 200 mph RV's (an -8,
and a Mazda rotary powered -3B), so I admit to a certain "need for speed".
At the same time, I hate the medical regulation stuff, and would like to try
a Sport Pilot legal plane. My interest is in getting the most out of the
limitation.
I don't see the cruise speed you quoted. The current Zenith page shows the
following max cruise speeds:
134 mph (912S)
138 mph (Jabiru 3300)
138 mph (O-235)
If I used one of these engines, and only got 120 mph, I wouldn't be happy.
Fortunately, I've heard from a couple sources that the 3300 XL is truly
meeting it's claims, which is good news.
The single rotor Mazda engine I propose will be well proven (or perhaps
disproven <g>) by the time I'd put it on the XL, since I'm finishing up the
installation of one on a Kolb Slingshot now. HP can well exceed anything
reasonable for an XL, so power won't be an issue.
Cheers,
Rusty (the rotary wacko)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John" <jlifer@bellsouth.net>
Rusty, as someone who is still building my plane, I can't give you
performance numbers. But some advice. If you are worried about 5-10mph,
then just go on and get an RV. Zenith has reduced their general
specifications in the last year or so and the design cruise was dropped from
132 to 124mph. That is about all you can expect. Another thing you are
trying to do is install a different engine. An awful lot is riding on you
getting all of that installation done properly and making it work for you.
The XL is a good plane, but as with any selection, has its limitations. John
Message 4
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Carlson" <a300cpt@bellsouth.net>
Does anyone have any recommendations for paint shops? Any estimates on what
it will cost? Any place east of the great divide would be ok.
Message 5
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| Subject: | 601XL - Torque Rod Stop Ring |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Moore" <pmoore505@msn.com>
2 XL questions for those in the know:
The torque rod for the control yoke has a stop ring on the end just in front
of the front spar carry-through to keep the rod from exiting out the back of
the bearings. It sure seems like there should be a second one to keep it
from moving forward as well but nothing on the plans shows one. There are 4"
to 5" of travel available there, unless the aileron and elevator cable
tension is enough keep it pulled back tight. Did anyone add a second ring
either behind the front bearing or behind the rear one?
On the flap actuator torque rod bearings, there is only one way the big
bearing holes can be positioned in the bearing while honoring the edge
distances, etc. This, along with the position of the rear spar carry-through
that is already mounted across the fuse, fix the position of the exit holes
in the fuse sides. How does one guarantee that this will be the correct
position for mating up with the end of the flap once the wings are mounted?
Seems there is a big chance for error here. Archive search gives one
solution from Dave Barth and Mark Townsend using the wing jig with a scrap
piece of hinge mounted to mark the location on the side skin. Anyone else
come up with any other method?
Also, thanks to all those who responded on the contact info. It worked out
and I have my answer already! What a resource this is!
Paul Moore
XL - 0200
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: accurate performance numbers |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Moore" <pmoore505@msn.com>
Rusty, there's a guy here in Las Cruces New Mexico that is very
successfully using a single rotor Mazda in a Dykes Delta who might be a good
contact. Email me off-list if you're interested and I'll see if I can put
you in contact.
Paul
XL - 0200
-----Original Message-----
..The single rotor Mazda engine I propose will be well proven (or perhaps
disproven <g>) by the time I'd put it on the XL, since I'm finishing up the
installation of one on a Kolb Slingshot now. HP can well exceed anything
reasonable for an XL, so power won't be an issue.
Cheers,
Rusty (the rotary wacko)
Do Not Archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: accurate performance numbers |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
All-
Anyone have numbers for the Corvair conversion? Can't beat the price!
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: accurate performance numbers
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
>
> Hi John,
>
> Thanks for the comments. I've built and flown a couple 200 mph RV's
(an -8,
> and a Mazda rotary powered -3B), so I admit to a certain "need for speed".
> At the same time, I hate the medical regulation stuff, and would like to
try
> a Sport Pilot legal plane. My interest is in getting the most out of the
> limitation.
>
> I don't see the cruise speed you quoted. The current Zenith page shows
the
> following max cruise speeds:
> 134 mph (912S)
> 138 mph (Jabiru 3300)
> 138 mph (O-235)
>
> If I used one of these engines, and only got 120 mph, I wouldn't be happy.
> Fortunately, I've heard from a couple sources that the 3300 XL is truly
> meeting it's claims, which is good news.
>
> The single rotor Mazda engine I propose will be well proven (or perhaps
> disproven <g>) by the time I'd put it on the XL, since I'm finishing up
the
> installation of one on a Kolb Slingshot now. HP can well exceed anything
> reasonable for an XL, so power won't be an issue.
>
> Cheers,
> Rusty (the rotary wacko)
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John" <jlifer@bellsouth.net>
>
> Rusty, as someone who is still building my plane, I can't give you
> performance numbers. But some advice. If you are worried about 5-10mph,
> then just go on and get an RV. Zenith has reduced their general
> specifications in the last year or so and the design cruise was dropped
from
> 132 to 124mph. That is about all you can expect. Another thing you are
> trying to do is install a different engine. An awful lot is riding on you
> getting all of that installation done properly and making it work for you.
> The XL is a good plane, but as with any selection, has its limitations.
John
>
>
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
Bob, have you contacted any car paint shops locally to you with
aluminum painting experience?
Some of us decided to tackle the paint ourselfves and came out pretty
good. I get compliments on my garage paint job all the time. I
thought it would be hard but it's not. All of the work is in the prep
of the metal and you can expect a high-price from a shop because of
this. If you do it yourself you can save big $$.
I reckon my paint job was less than $700 in materials (used good
paint). If you want more info there is a really good article on
painting on www.ch601.org that explains pretty much everything you
need to know. If you read that and follow the instructions (which I
did) you'll end up just fine.
My website has lots of pictures of the painting process:
http://pagefamily.homeunix.org/picture_album/view_album.php?
set_albumName=finalpaint
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Oct 30, 2005, at 10:51 AM, Bob Carlson wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Carlson"
> <a300cpt@bellsouth.net>
>
> Does anyone have any recommendations for paint shops? Any
> estimates on what
> it will cost? Any place east of the great divide would be ok.
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: RPM from Sound |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Will be great to experiment... never heard about something similar.
Thanks in advance..
Saludos
Gary Gower
ggower_99 AT yahoo.com Please change AT for @.
"n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com"
I have a little program that will calculate engine RPM from sound. You
could use it to check your tach. Download to your laptop, take it to the
airport and crank up your engine and compare the rpm.... I got it several
years ago from a programmer when I was on the AOPA web board.
If you have a need for this, send me an email and I will send it to you.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Interesting !!! I wonder if it understands 180 degree cranks and headers ?????
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
I have a little program that will calculate engine RPM from sound. You
could use it to check your tach. Download to your laptop, take it to the
airport and crank up your engine and compare the rpm.... I got it several
years ago from a programmer when I was on the AOPA web board.
If you have a need for this, send me an email and I will send it to you.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Interesting !!! I wonder if it understands 180 degree cranks and headers ?????
do not archive
BenHaas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
---------------------------------
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: accurate performance numbers |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
I am not woried about getting the maximum top speed out of the XL kit we are beguining
to build.
As also owners of a 701, we like better the landing performance (more friendly)
of the Zenith family of airplanes...
As John stated, I will add a little more. I will hand off, change 10 mph of top
speed for the better landing qualities of the XL:... 10 miles per hours
diference in top speed, are only a few minutes per leg of flying. Sometimes
we lost more time in getting ready, waiting in line for take off, weather or
paying for the gas than the time gained in with flying speed.
As one old timer pilot here used to say... If you are in a hurry, better drive
than fly, driving will not be much afected with weather, Flying is to enjoy
and take your time...
Saludos
Gary Gower
John <jlifer@bellsouth.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John"
Rusty, as someone who is still building my plane, I can't give you performance
numbers. But some advice. If you are worried about 5-10mph, then just go on and
get an RV. Zenith has reduced their general specifications in the last year
or so and the design cruise was dropped from 132 to 124mph. That is about all
you can expect. Another thing you are trying to do is install a different engine.
An awful lot is riding on you getting all of that installation done properly
and making it work for you. The XL is a good plane, but as with any selection,
has its limitations.
John
---------------------------------
Message 11
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
Bob: I was planning on painting the xL myself and just ran out of a place to do
it ( I sold my house and barn) so I took it to Macco. Yes Macco. I was really
surprised with the result. I know it looks better than I could have done and
it was done in a day. I will add a couple of vinyl stripes and be done. Jack
Ps. $1800
Jack Russell -Clovis CA
601 XL Jabiru 3300
Progress update at:
http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: accurate performance numbers |
T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG,XMDiploma_00,XMGenDplmaNmb autolearn=disabled
version=3.0.3
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
You are probably already a member of the Corvaircraft list but if not here
is the link:
http://www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html
You should also ask your question there. And of course William Wynne (Mr.
Fly Corvair himself) has a 'vair on his 601XL. He started off with a stock
motor on the XL but recently changed to a 3,100cc. So he should be able to
give you numbers on both configurations. But he is a hard man to get a hold
of (to put it mildly).
Again you probably know this but the next Corvair College is Nov. 11-13. If
you are seriously considering the Corvair and *anywhere* within striking
distance of Daytona Beach, Fla you should attend.
I would give you numbers from my 601XL/Corvair but so far its average speed
is 0 mph (clean).
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William J.
Naumuk
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: accurate performance numbers
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk"
--> <billn@velocity.net>
All-
Anyone have numbers for the Corvair conversion? Can't beat the price!
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: accurate performance numbers
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
>
> Hi John,
>
> Thanks for the comments. I've built and flown a couple 200 mph RV's
(an -8,
> and a Mazda rotary powered -3B), so I admit to a certain "need for speed".
> At the same time, I hate the medical regulation stuff, and would like
> to
try
> a Sport Pilot legal plane. My interest is in getting the most out of
> the limitation.
>
> I don't see the cruise speed you quoted. The current Zenith page
> shows
the
> following max cruise speeds:
> 134 mph (912S)
> 138 mph (Jabiru 3300)
> 138 mph (O-235)
>
> If I used one of these engines, and only got 120 mph, I wouldn't be happy.
> Fortunately, I've heard from a couple sources that the 3300 XL is
> truly meeting it's claims, which is good news.
>
> The single rotor Mazda engine I propose will be well proven (or
> perhaps disproven <g>) by the time I'd put it on the XL, since I'm
> finishing up
the
> installation of one on a Kolb Slingshot now. HP can well exceed
> anything reasonable for an XL, so power won't be an issue.
>
> Cheers,
> Rusty (the rotary wacko)
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John" <jlifer@bellsouth.net>
>
> Rusty, as someone who is still building my plane, I can't give you
> performance numbers. But some advice. If you are worried about
> 5-10mph, then just go on and get an RV. Zenith has reduced their
> general specifications in the last year or so and the design cruise
> was dropped
from
> 132 to 124mph. That is about all you can expect. Another thing you
> are trying to do is install a different engine. An awful lot is
> riding on you getting all of that installation done properly and making it
work for you.
> The XL is a good plane, but as with any selection, has its limitations.
John
>
>
Message 13
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "neitzel" <n963wb@frontiernet.net>
Greetings all
When installing the seat front to the control tunnel it appeared that it was necessary
to bend the center of the rear facing lip of the seat front to accommodate
the tunnel. Trying to keep it neat, I took a piece of 3/4 inch pipe and
clamped it to the lip with a vice grip. It came up ok and was a nice rounded
bend. However, by bending this area up causes the top edge of the seat front
to bend towards the front and is no longer a straight line. The only way I could
think of to get the top edge straight again was to stretch the bent up area.
A few well placed blows with a ball peen hammer on an anvil brought the piece
straight. Now it is ugly! If I had to do it all over again I would not bent
the seat front but make a cut out on the front of the tunnel to accommodate
the lip.
I have been using Cortec straight from the can and thought it was very thick but
figured that was the way it was supposed to be. I contacted ZAC and they recommended
cutting with a maximum of only 15% water. Mixed up a small batch of
the cut material and it goes on much better.
Dick Neitzel
701 Jabiru 2200
Sayner, WI
N962WB
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL - Torque Rod Stop Ring |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "mikeandlaurie3@netzero.net" <mikeandlaurie3@netzero.net>
In a conversation with Nick Heinz at the Copperstate air show, he told me to wait
until wings are installed before drilling the exit hole in the fuselage sides.
This would be done from below using the lower fuselage access hole - sounds
good to me so I'm gonna wait til then.
Mike Clark in Arizona, N445ML, kit building a 601XL
In a conversation with Nick Heinz at the Copperstate air show, he told me to wait
until wings are installed before drilling the exit hole in the fuselage sides.
This would be done from below using the lower fuselage access hole - sounds
good to me so I'm gonna wait til then.
Mike Clark in Arizona, N445ML, kit building a 601XL
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: alex trent <atrent7@cogeco.ca>
Some one mentioned a flight they had done from Las Vegas to the canyon.
He had rented a, I believe, a 172 with an instuctor. Sounded very
interesting and I kept the info for a couple of months now I can't find
it. I would sure appreciate it if he would contact me again with the
information. I am leaving for Las Vegas on Thurs.
alex t.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Removing metal shavings/filings? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michael Valentine <mgvalentine@gmail.com>
I am about to close up my horizontal stabilizer. Before I do, I would
appreciate any comments on the need to meticulously remove the metal
shavings and filings that have accumulated inside. As you may
remember, half of the skin is riveted on before the other side is
drilled, causing lots of shavings to fall in the skeleton.
Should I poke, prod, blow, brush, and vacuum out every single shaving.
Obviously I am getting most out by turning it upside down and
dumping, with some brushing and some blowing. But, some of them end
up wedged in places and some just don't seem to fall out. Will they
do any damage in the short, medium, or long term? The question is
just how much is necessary.
Thanks for all your thoughts on the matter.
Michael Valentine
Message 17
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Todd Osborne <todd@toddtown.com>
That was me, last February. Still the best flight of my life. I lost the
original email I sent, but here is part of my diary entry :-)
We taxi-cabbed out to North Las Vegas to First Flight Aviation to get a
rented Cessna 172. Will Dryden, a local CFI, flew with us out to Lake
Mead, Hoover Dam and back west to Red Rock Canyon. It was the best
flight of my life, outstanding. Sherrie was in the back seat and got
some great pictures. We were told that one circle around Hoover Dam and
they considered us a tourist, 2 circles a terrorist :-) It was
fantastic, smooth and clear, and the controllers were great, as was
Will. He was a great co-pilot and navigator. Even though it had been
about a year since I flew, I did find, even the landing was good. All in
all it was a great vacation, now back to reality!
Todd Osborne
Internet E-Mail: todd@toddtown.com
Web Site: www.toddtown.com
MSN (Windows) Messenger: todd@toddtown.com
AOL Instant Messenger: toddosborn@aol.com
alex trent wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: alex trent <atrent7@cogeco.ca>
>
> Some one mentioned a flight they had done from Las Vegas to the canyon.
> He had rented a, I believe, a 172 with an instuctor. Sounded very
> interesting and I kept the info for a couple of months now I can't find
> it. I would sure appreciate it if he would contact me again with the
> information. I am leaving for Las Vegas on Thurs.
>
> alex t.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Removing metal shavings/filings? |
T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Don't forget the extra weight the shavings add! :-)
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Valentine
Subject: Zenith-List: Removing metal shavings/filings?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michael Valentine
--> <mgvalentine@gmail.com>
I am about to close up my horizontal stabilizer. Before I do, I would
appreciate any comments on the need to meticulously remove the metal
shavings and filings that have accumulated inside. As you may remember,
half of the skin is riveted on before the other side is drilled, causing
lots of shavings to fall in the skeleton.
Should I poke, prod, blow, brush, and vacuum out every single shaving.
Obviously I am getting most out by turning it upside down and dumping, with
some brushing and some blowing. But, some of them end up wedged in places
and some just don't seem to fall out. Will they do any damage in the short,
medium, or long term? The question is just how much is necessary.
Thanks for all your thoughts on the matter.
Michael Valentine
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Removing metal shavings/filings? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
I don't know of any big problems with a little extra metal bouncing
around inside the stabilizer. I think most of it will eventually
find its way out anyway. There is plenty of room for it to get out
once it gets loose.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
At 07:06 PM 10/30/2005, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michael Valentine <mgvalentine@gmail.com>
>
>I am about to close up my horizontal stabilizer. Before I do, I would
>appreciate any comments on the need to meticulously remove the metal
>shavings and filings that have accumulated inside. As you may
>remember, half of the skin is riveted on before the other side is
>drilled, causing lots of shavings to fall in the skeleton.
>
>Should I poke, prod, blow, brush, and vacuum out every single shaving.
> Obviously I am getting most out by turning it upside down and
>dumping, with some brushing and some blowing. But, some of them end
>up wedged in places and some just don't seem to fall out. Will they
>do any damage in the short, medium, or long term? The question is
>just how much is necessary.
>
>Thanks for all your thoughts on the matter.
>
>Michael Valentine
>
>
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
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