Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:04 AM - Re: subaru manifold (Dan Ribb)
2. 12:09 AM - 2005 Matronics Email List Fund Raiser [Please Read]... (Matt Dralle)
3. 01:46 AM - Re: Form materials (Terry Turnquist)
4. 04:49 AM - VNE Speed Changes (Adams Stephen - Doctors Hosp Augusta)
5. 05:31 AM - Re: XL VNE, again (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
6. 05:55 AM - Re: subaru manifold (Jim and Lucy)
7. 07:32 AM - Re: subaru manifold ()
8. 07:36 AM - Re: subaru manifold ()
9. 08:04 AM - Re: XL VNE, again (JAPhillipsGA@AOL.COM)
10. 08:12 AM - Re: Form materials - MDF (Carlos Sa)
11. 08:28 AM - Re: CH-701 advice (Larry McFarland)
12. 08:31 AM - Re: XL VNE, again (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
13. 08:58 AM - XL Headroom questions again (Rusty)
14. 09:20 AM - Re: XL VNE, again (Paul Mulwitz)
15. 09:24 AM - XL Main gear change, again (Lance Gingell)
16. 09:31 AM - Formblock material (George Swinford)
17. 10:02 AM - Re: CH-701 advice (Trevor Page)
18. 10:09 AM - Re: XL VNE, again (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
19. 10:58 AM - Re: XL VNE, again (Weston, Jim)
20. 12:10 PM - Re: XL VNE, again (Paul Mulwitz)
21. 12:20 PM - In-Flight Ivo Prop Results (Tim Egan)
22. 12:34 PM - Re: XL VNE, again (Rico Voss)
23. 01:09 PM - Powder Coat - 701 Cabin 4130 steel tubing (Tommy Walker)
24. 02:12 PM - Re: Powder Coat - 701 Cabin 4130 steel tubing (jnbolding1)
25. 02:16 PM - Re: XL VNE, again (Zodie Rocket)
26. 02:23 PM - Re: Powder Coat - 701 Cabin 4130 steel tubing (Zodie Rocket)
27. 02:28 PM - Re: XL Headroom questions again (Zodie Rocket)
28. 02:53 PM - Re: XL Headroom questions again (Rusty)
29. 02:55 PM - Re: CH-701 advice (Dave G.)
30. 03:23 PM - Re: XL VNE, again (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
31. 03:24 PM - Re: CH-701 advice (Zodie Rocket)
32. 03:50 PM - Re: XL VNE, again (Paul Mulwitz)
33. 04:04 PM - Re: CH-701 advice (Monty Graves)
34. 04:22 PM - Re: XL VNE, again (Craig Payne)
35. 04:28 PM - Re: XL Headroom questions again (Craig Payne)
36. 04:43 PM - Re: building process on fuse (Matt & Jo)
37. 05:14 PM - Re: XL Headroom questions again T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3 (Rusty)
38. 05:15 PM - Re: XL VNE, again T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled (Larry McFarland)
39. 05:24 PM - Re: CH-701 advice vw... (Gary Gower)
40. 05:32 PM - Re: XL VNE, again T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3 (Craig Payne)
41. 05:40 PM - Re: Form materials - MDF (rlendon@comcast.net)
42. 05:50 PM - Re: XL Headroom questions again T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3 (Craig Payne)
43. 05:52 PM - Re: XL VNE, again... (Gary Gower)
44. 06:00 PM - Re: Re: Shavings in stabilizer (Gary Gower)
45. 06:18 PM - Parachutes kill. (Paul Mulwitz)
46. 06:21 PM - Re: XL Headroom questions again (Paul Mulwitz)
47. 06:56 PM - Re: Parachutes kill. (Mike Sinclair)
48. 06:58 PM - Re: CH-701 advice. (Gary Gower)
49. 07:01 PM - Re: XL Headroom questions again T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3 SUBJ_HAS_SPACES,T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3 (Rusty)
50. 07:19 PM - Re: Powder Coat - 701 Cabin 4130 steel tubing (Gary Gower)
51. 08:48 PM - Re: XL Headroom questions again T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3 SUBJ_HAS_SPACES,T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3 (Craig Payne)
52. 09:14 PM - Re: Parachutes kill. (kevinbonds)
53. 09:22 PM - Re: Parachutes kill. (kevinbonds)
54. 09:41 PM - Re: XL Headroom questions again (G. Harris (Pumpkin Man))
55. 10:08 PM - Re: Parachutes kill. (Paul Mulwitz)
56. 10:43 PM - Re: XL Headroom questions again T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3 SUBJ_HAS_SPACES,T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3 (Rick)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: subaru manifold |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Ribb" <dan@danribb.com>
http://www.stratus2000.homestead.com/files/stratusnew/index.htm
Dan Ribb
Fresno, CA
601XL kit shipped and waiting!
> Thanks for the reply. Is there a specific link for stratus?
>> You could buy one from Stratus
>>>Can anyone tell me where to find a Subaru conversion intake manifold
>>>to fit a bing carburetor? Thanks Robert Tichy
Message 2
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| Subject: | 2005 Matronics Email List Fund Raiser [Please Read]... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Matronics Email Listers,
Each year during the month of November, I hold a PBS-like fund raiser
to support the Email Lists sponsored here. As you have probably
noticed, there is no commercial advertising on any of the
List-related web pages or in any of the email distributions. The
Matronics Lists are supported completely though the generous
Contributions of its members.
Making a Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade
of the Matronics Aviation Lists is completely voluntary, but I
encourage you to consider making a donation that is equal to the
value and entertainment you have received from these Lists over the past year.
And thanks to a number of extremely generous members/businessmen
found on the Lists, there are some truly awesome Free Gifts to be had
during this year's List Fund Raiser! Andy Gold of the The Builder's
Bookstore, Paul Besing of Aeroware Enterprises, and Jon Croke of
Homebuilt HELP have all contributed products from their respective
catalogs in support of this year's Fund Raiser! Thank you!
Andy, Paul, and Jon are great guys and I really appreciate their
support for the Lists. I encourage each List member to visit their
respective web sites for a closer look at each of their great product
lines. Its guys like these that make this such a great hobby/sport
to be a part of! I have included links to each of their web sites below.
And just like PBS, I will be making pretty regular reminder requests
throughout the month of November. I ask for your kind consideration
and understanding during this time and realize that this Fund Raiser
is the *only* source of financing and support I have for these
Lists. I am continually upgrading and improving the hardware and
systems required in support of the Lists. This year saw a
substantial upgrade to all of the computer room infrastructure
including gigabit networking, dedicated air conditioning, an
equipment rack, and high-performance system chassis upgrades. Yes,
it was expensive, but I feel the Lists are worth it! Hopefully you do too!
All of these upgrades are what add up to the High-Performance,
Highly-Available system that everyone has come to expect of the Email
Lists at Matronics.
Please make a Contribution today to support these upgrades and the
continued operation of the Matronics Email Lists. The Contribution
web site is fast, easy, and secure to use. You can even select a
sweet Free Gift with a qualifying Contribution amount. The
Contribution Site can be found here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your generous support!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Sponsors of this Year's Matronics List Fund Raiser
Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - http://www.buildersbooks.com
Paul Besing - Aeroware Enterprises - http://www.kitlog.com
Jon Croke - Homebuilt HELP - http://www.homebuilthelp.com
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Terry Turnquist <ter_turn@yahoo.com>
Another source of material is your local sign company, where you might pick up
used but good marine plywood that has been used for outdoor signs. Tough stuff.
Terry Turnquist
601 XL-Plans
rlendon@comcast.net wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: rlendon@comcast.net
That's the way I will go. MDF.
I did make one rib form for the Stabilizer out of Plywood and it had gaps right
where I needed edge radius. Right then I new there had to be a better way.
This list is really gonna help.
--
Ron Lendon
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
Do Not Archive
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds"
>
> 3/4 inch Multi-density Fiberboard (MDF). Get it at home depot. I did make my
> nose rib blocks out of Red Oak because of the number of ribs they would need
> to make and the tight radius on the nose, but probably would have been fine
> with MDF. Unless you plan on a production run of more than 10 planes a week
> MDF will work fine. Just get started and have fun!
>
> Kevin Bonds
>
> Nashville TN
>
> 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
>
> Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
>
>
> do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> rlendon@comcast.net
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Form materials
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: rlendon@comcast.net
>
> Plans Builders,
>
> I have my plans and have made a materials list. The question I have is the
> form material (Plywood?) or something more durable? CH refers to laminating
> .125 aluminum to the plywood form. Is there some other, more dense material
> you have had good luck with?
>
> --
> Ron Lendon
> Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
> Do Not Archive
>
> Plans Builders,
>
> I have my plans and have made a materials list. The question I have is the
> form material (Plywood?) or something more durable? CH refers to laminating
> .125 aluminum to the plywood form. Is there some other, more dense material
> you have had good luck with?
>
>
> --
> Ron Lendon
> Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
> Do Not Archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
That's the way I will go. MDF.
I did make one rib form for the Stabilizer out of Plywood and it had gaps right
where I needed edge radius. Right then I new there had to be a better way.
This list is really gonna help.
--
Ron Lendon
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
Do Not Archive
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds"
3/4 inch Multi-density Fiberboard (MDF). Get it at home depot. I did make my
nose rib blocks out of Red Oak because of the number of ribs they would need
to make and the tight radius on the nose, but probably would have been fine
with MDF. Unless you plan on a production run of more than 10 planes a week
MDF will work fine. Just get started and have fun!
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
F
rom: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rlendon@comcast.net
Subject: Zenith-List: Form materials
-- Zenith-List message posted by: rlendon@comcast.net
Plans Builders,
I have my plans and have made a materials list. The question I have is the
form material (Plywood?) or something more durable? CH refers to laminating
.125 aluminum to the plywood form. Is there some other, more dense material
you have had good luck with?
--
Ron Lendon
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
Do Not Archive
Plans Builders,
I have my plans and have made a materials list. The question I have is the
form material (Plywood?) or something more durable? CH refers to laminating
.125 aluminum to the pl
ywood form. Is there some other, more dense material
you have had good luck with?
--
Ron Lendon
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
Do Not Archive
---------------------------------
Message 4
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| Subject: | VNE Speed Changes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Adams Stephen - Doctors Hosp Augusta" <Stephen.Adams@HCAhealthcare.com>
As far as I understand, VNE speed is a calculated value based upon the design limits.
The airplane is then tested to this speed to ensure that in practice this
is a safe speed. If there is any flutter or other problems at a lower speed,
the VNE is then decreased below the calculated value. If there are no problems
at the calculated VNE, I don't think they would increase the VNE above 80%
of the calculated design limit (VDL). I don't think they get some fool up in the
airplane and tell him to see how fast he can go before the airplane self destructs.
I would guess that the VNE has been lowered to meet more stringent design
loading criteria for SLA certification, but I don't know this for sure. It
could be that in testing for SLA certification they had some flutter at the
lower speed, requiring them to lower the VNE. In any event, since you are unlikely
to go that fast in a 601 on purpose, I would accept the lower number as the
ASI red line. Just my opinion.
Steve Adams
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: XL VNE, again |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
I don't think it would be easy to get out of a zodiac in flight unless you could
rig some way to jettison the canopy. Fortunatly, aluminum doesn't just suddenly
break with no warning. Before it reaches the breaking point it will start
to yield. The metal will bend beyond the point where it can return to its original
shape. So if you test the airframe to its design limits in slow stages and
do a thourogh inspection for bent metal after each flight you should be able
to spot any deformation of the structure before there's any chance of failure
in flight. Then there's the fact that Chris's designs have been around for a
long time and many have been built and flown with no history of in flight break
ups. I had no great fear of testing my airplane flight envelope to the design
limits. I have flown the plane at gross weight to the +4G limit and to 111%
of Vne with no problems. I have not tested to the negitive 4G limit but I think
some of my landings have taken care of that test. :
)
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
> Hi Gary,
>
> I appreciate your comment on VNE. It does bring up an old question
> for me: Does it make any sense to wear a parachute in a plane with a
> front hinged canopy? Is there any way to bail out?
>
> Paul
> XL wings
> do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: subaru manifold |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@ciaccess.com>
At 12:30 AM 11/1/2005, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: <momanpop@marshallnet.com>
>
>Thanks for the reply. Is there a specific link for stratus?
>do not archive
http://www.stratus2000.homestead.com/
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: subaru manifold |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <momanpop@marshallnet.com>
Thanks Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Ribb
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: subaru manifold
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Ribb" <dan@danribb.com>
http://www.stratus2000.homestead.com/files/stratusnew/index.htm
Dan Ribb
Fresno, CA
601XL kit shipped and waiting!
> Thanks for the reply. Is there a specific link for stratus?
>> You could buy one from Stratus
>>>Can anyone tell me where to find a Subaru conversion intake manifold
>>>to fit a bing carburetor? Thanks Robert Tichy
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: subaru manifold |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <momanpop@marshallnet.com>
Thanks Jim and Lucy
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim and Lucy
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: subaru manifold
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@ciaccess.com>
At 12:30 AM 11/1/2005, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: <momanpop@marshallnet.com>
>
>Thanks for the reply. Is there a specific link for stratus?
>do not archive
http://www.stratus2000.homestead.com/
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: XL VNE, again |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Paul, interesting question. Can a person parachute from a XL with forward
tilt canopy? I would say sure. All you need is exploding bolts to release the
two front hinge points. Also might be possible with an inverted stall, but
your timing would have to be perfect just as negative G and zero wind merge. Me,
I'll just ride the bird on down, FWIW, Best regards, Bill
Do Not Archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Form materials - MDF |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Ron, if you are going to use each form more than once, it's worth using a couple
of poliurethane
coats. Makes the forms real hard.
Have fun - and wear a mask, the dusk is very fine and gets *everywhere*.
Carlos
--- rlendon@comcast.net wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: rlendon@comcast.net
>
> That's the way I will go. MDF.
>
> I did make one rib form for the Stabilizer out of Plywood and it had gaps right
where I needed
> edge radius. Right then I new there had to be a better way.
>
> This list is really gonna help.
>
> --
> Ron Lendon
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: CH-701 advice |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Dave,
VW power with a PRSU should be ideal for a two place 701
regardless of what BULA means in Canadian regulations.
1600 cc is perhaps a better choice than many of the overpowered
engines in the 90-120 hp range. Should fly better, not faster, but better.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Dave G. wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave G." <d.goddard@ns.sympatico.ca>
>
>I am dragging my feet terribly over a 701 that I feel is a fairly good match
>for my needs. It fails in that it is plans built and therfore registered as
>a BULA (Canada regs).
>
>It appears to be well built and I guess I could get over not being able to
>carry passengers. I am concerned about the motor. It is a VW with a PSRU. I
>wonder if this is a good choice. the builder indicates that it is a 1600 and
>I'm wondering if it is powerful enough even for a 701.
>
>It is not quite finished and has not flown. Some of you in Ontario might be
>familiar with it. Any insights will be appreciated.
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
As an experienced skydiver with around 500 jumps I can tell I can get
out of any plane at any attitude (G forces not a consideration),
including squeezing under the rear edge of a forward tilt canopy.
But...I probably wouldn't even have a parachute on my back during a
first flight...Stuctural testing yes, but otherwise unlikely.
If you think about it the only time you would like you use a 'chute is
during a structural failure...Other wise my personal belief is stick to
the environment your used to....if you're a pilot that means landing
without an engine is less risky than getting out of the airplane into
freefall and under canopy...assuming of course you can avoid damaging it
on the way out.
If you do have a structural failure you also better know how to fly your
body away from the airplane which is probably going in very un natural
directions..Yes you can get a forward speed of 80mph plus just flying
your body.
If you don't know how to do this I would recommend you stay inside.
Just my HO of course..
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL VNE, again
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Paul, interesting question. Can a person parachute from a XL with
forward tilt canopy? I would say sure. All you need is exploding bolts
to release the two front hinge points. Also might be possible with an
inverted stall, but your timing would have to be perfect just as
negative G and zero wind merge. Me, I'll just ride the bird on down,
FWIW, Best regards, Bill Do Not Archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | XL Headroom questions again |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
Greetings,
Thanks for all the on, and off list comments on the XL performance numbers.
I'm now convinced that it will do what they say it will do, as long as you
give it a reasonable power plant.
The next problem is headroom. I'm tall from the waist up, and often have
headroom issues. If someone could do a test measurement for me, I'd be one
step closer to ordering an XL kit.
Can someone sit in a completed plane, and measure the minimum clearance
between your head, and the canopy? To make the measurement useful, I'll
also need to know how thick the cushion is (or do the test without the
cushion), and how tall you are sitting down. For example, my seated height
is 38.5", which I get from sitting on the floor, with my back against a
wall.
If someone can point me to a completed XL near Pensacola FL, I could try it
myself, but otherwise, this will have to do for now.
Thanks,
Rusty (almost future XL builder)
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: XL VNE, again |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Bill,
In general I agree with you. I can't imagine bailing out of a
perfectly good airplane.
This question comes up with regard to the speed stress testing
discussed in relation to VNE. One writer appropriately suggested
wearing a parachute while intentionally flying your one-off
experimental plane above the designer's VNE limit. Of course, this
doesn't do a whole lot of good if you can't get out of the cockpit
after the wings fall off.
Oddly enough, I asked this question of ZAC's president, Sebastian
Heintz, earlier this year before ordering my kit. His cocky response
was some rude remark saying they had not tested the pilot egress
system or something like that.
Best regards,
Paul
XL wings
At 08:03 AM 11/1/2005, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
>
>Paul, interesting question. Can a person parachute from a XL with forward
>tilt canopy? I would say sure. All you need is exploding bolts to
>release the
>two front hinge points. Also might be possible with an inverted stall, but
>your timing would have to be perfect just as negative G and zero
>wind merge. Me,
>I'll just ride the bird on down, FWIW, Best regards, Bill
Message 15
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| Subject: | XL Main gear change, again |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
Rico,
My XL is flying, and I have the original XL main gear orientation, not
the new. When I fly solo with full fuel, I'm right in the forward CG
range, and it takes quite a bit of stick to pick the nose off the runway
(which you then need to let go of quickly to get to the correct pitch
attitude). Also, on landing, holding the nosewheel off for any
significant length of time is next to impossible in this configuration
With more weight/further aft CG, things get a little better, but it is
still noticeable. I think the newer orientation sounds like a good idea.
If I could just swap mine around, I'd try it (wheels/brakes etc. make it
a bit more involved now!)
I know the HDS is similar to this, so I suspect Chris designs it to
'stop flying' and 'start flying' like this. For example, when you land,
the nosewheel 'wants' to be on the runway just after the mains, which
certainly stops you accidentally flying again in a gust. I think
perhaps that's his intent.
..lance
XL/Jabiru 3300
http://lancegingell.com
Time: 03:32:52 AM PST US
From: Rico Voss <vozzen@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: XL Main gear change, again
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rico Voss <vozzen@yahoo.com>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Formblock material |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
Re Ron Lendon's inquiry about form block material:
I have epoxied a 1/4 layer of tempered Masonite onto furniture-grade plywood to
make very durable form blocks. This may be overkill for making one or a few
parts but it is just the thing for a large number of ribs. The Masonite is easily
shaped with band saw, belt sander and file.
There is a tooling plastic called Benelex which is great for form blocks, but probably
overkill for a one-off project.
George
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: CH-701 advice |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
Dave I might know which plane you are speaking of.
From personal experience I would remove that engine and install a
used 80HP 912 or something akin to that. Tom Mills in Waterloo can
tell you plenty about his experiences with engines, having had 2 GEO
metro engines and now a 912.
Also, if I do think it is the plane you are referring to, the right
side top fuselage longeron is spliced having suffered a crash in
Quebec some years ago.
Again, I know of only 1 701 in the area with a VW engine so my
assumption is this very plane.
Please contact me off-list to discuss this if you wish to discuss this.
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Oct 31, 2005, at 5:31 PM, Dave G. wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave G."
> <d.goddard@ns.sympatico.ca>
>
> I am dragging my feet terribly over a 701 that I feel is a fairly
> good match
> for my needs. It fails in that it is plans built and therfore
> registered as
> a BULA (Canada regs).
>
> It appears to be well built and I guess I could get over not being
> able to
> carry passengers. I am concerned about the motor. It is a VW with a
> PSRU. I
> wonder if this is a good choice. the builder indicates that it is a
> 1600 and
> I'm wondering if it is powerful enough even for a 701.
>
> It is not quite finished and has not flown. Some of you in Ontario
> might be
> familiar with it. Any insights will be appreciated.
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: XL VNE, again |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Paul, I'm still in the testing mode at 25 hours, but I have no intention to
ever fly my XL anywhere near max speed. I would have to dive it to prove it and
if it fails okay, what have I gained ? not much I can do about anything cause
I'm DEAD. If it does not crash and I survive, Great!!, but practicing nearly
crashing is not really necessary to learning that the faster you go the closer
to crashing you are. Sort of like a dud tester at an artillery shell factory.
As to Sebastian and Nick for that matter, sometimes they come across a little
less than tactful, but I really don't think they mean to offend. English may
well be a second language to them, they deal day in, day out with a bunch of
folks pulling and tugging on them from all around the world (even been me a
couple times) demanding answers, stuff, support, reinforcement, hope, dream
making, etc., and I think they hold their sanity pretty well considering. FWIW,
Best regards, Bill
Do Not Archive
Message 19
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
Paul,
FWIW. When I was considering the purchase of my 601HDS, Nicholas gave
me ride in the factory plane at Mexico, Mo. After the ride, I talked
with him about the VNE testing, and many other items. He indicated
that, for the 601HDS, his dad (Chris) did the VNE testing of each model.
He said that it was the only time that he sees his dad wear a parachute
when testing their aircraft. For the HDS he indicated that it had been
dive tested to 210 mph without any flutter problems. He indicated that
they list the VNE at 160 mph to give a good safety margin; knowing that
there are going to be variables in the quality of construction from one
plane to another.
You might ask if Chris still does this as part of the test flight
process for a new design.
I saw Bill Phillips response to this post, and I agree with him. What
seems like sharp answers are some of the differences of language
translation (English is a second language for them) and cultural
differences. I experienced some responses like you describe while I was
building, but found that if I questioned further they were always very
interested in being helpful to the building process.
Have fun,
Jim Weston
Ch601hds, Stratus
Concord, Ga.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Mulwitz
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL VNE, again
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
--> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Bill,
In general I agree with you. I can't imagine bailing out of a perfectly
good airplane.
This question comes up with regard to the speed stress testing discussed
in relation to VNE. One writer appropriately suggested wearing a
parachute while intentionally flying your one-off experimental plane
above the designer's VNE limit. Of course, this doesn't do a whole lot
of good if you can't get out of the cockpit after the wings fall off.
Oddly enough, I asked this question of ZAC's president, Sebastian
Heintz, earlier this year before ordering my kit. His cocky response
was some rude remark saying they had not tested the pilot egress system
or something like that.
Best regards,
Paul
XL wings
At 08:03 AM 11/1/2005, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
>
>Paul, interesting question. Can a person parachute from a XL with
>forward tilt canopy? I would say sure. All you need is exploding
>bolts to release the two front hinge points. Also might be possible
>with an inverted stall, but your timing would have to be perfect just
>as negative G and zero wind merge. Me, I'll just ride the bird on down,
>FWIW, Best regards, Bill
Message 20
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Jim,
Thanks for the comments. I stand corrected. I suppose Sebastian
deserves a little slack from me.
Nick on the other hand gets nothing but praise from me. He keeps
giving me more and more positive impressions.
On to airplanes . . . I did a bit of study of the flutter
phenomenon early in my building exercise. In my untrained opinion,
the Zodiac design is not at all vulnerable to flutter. I got the
idea that flutter requires a certain lack of stiffness in a control
surface so it can ripple like a flag in the wind. It seems to me
that most of the control surfaces on my XL have a solid triangular
shape that should be very rigid. The rudder is an exception to this
because of its full size including the normal vertical stabilizer,
but it too is quite rigid.
Best regards,
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
At 10:56 AM 11/1/2005, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
>
>Paul,
>
>FWIW. When I was considering the purchase of my 601HDS, Nicholas gave
>me ride in the factory plane at Mexico, Mo. After the ride, I talked
>with him about the VNE testing, and many other items. He indicated
>that, for the 601HDS, his dad (Chris) did the VNE testing of each model.
>He said that it was the only time that he sees his dad wear a parachute
>when testing their aircraft. For the HDS he indicated that it had been
>dive tested to 210 mph without any flutter problems. He indicated that
>they list the VNE at 160 mph to give a good safety margin; knowing that
>there are going to be variables in the quality of construction from one
>plane to another.
>
>You might ask if Chris still does this as part of the test flight
>process for a new design.
>
>I saw Bill Phillips response to this post, and I agree with him. What
>seems like sharp answers are some of the differences of language
>translation (English is a second language for them) and cultural
>differences. I experienced some responses like you describe while I was
>building, but found that if I questioned further they were always very
>interested in being helpful to the building process.
>
>Have fun,
>Jim Weston
>Ch601hds, Stratus
>Concord, Ga.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
>Mulwitz
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL VNE, again
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
>--> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
>Hi Bill,
>
>In general I agree with you. I can't imagine bailing out of a perfectly
>good airplane.
>
>This question comes up with regard to the speed stress testing discussed
>in relation to VNE. One writer appropriately suggested wearing a
>parachute while intentionally flying your one-off experimental plane
>above the designer's VNE limit. Of course, this doesn't do a whole lot
>of good if you can't get out of the cockpit after the wings fall off.
>
>Oddly enough, I asked this question of ZAC's president, Sebastian
>Heintz, earlier this year before ordering my kit. His cocky response
>was some rude remark saying they had not tested the pilot egress system
>or something like that.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Paul
>XL wings
>
>At 08:03 AM 11/1/2005, you wrote:
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
> >
> >Paul, interesting question. Can a person parachute from a XL with
> >forward tilt canopy? I would say sure. All you need is exploding
> >bolts to release the two front hinge points. Also might be possible
> >with an inverted stall, but your timing would have to be perfect just
> >as negative G and zero wind merge. Me, I'll just ride the bird on down,
>
> >FWIW, Best regards, Bill
>
>
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 21
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| Subject: | In-Flight Ivo Prop Results |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Egan" <eedetailing@qwest.net>
Folks,
Just got to complete my first test flight after conversion
from a ground adjustable to an inflight adjustable Ivo
Prop. Plane is a 2001 HD with an 80 hp Rotax 912UL.
Old setup was an IVO Ultralight model, 3 blades, pitched
at about 11 deg measured at the tips.
Cruise speed at 5000 rpm was 103 mph, climb rate about
800 fpm solo.
New hub, same blades, and a brush kit from sportplanell.com
which moves the brushes to behind the gearbox. Claims that
brushes will last 5 times longer. The brushes ride on rings that
are about 1" in diameter, instead of the 5" prop hub that Ivo
supplies.
Todays flight was at 6500', 6C and 30.26"
Max rpm I was able to get on climb-out is now 5200, higher
than before, but I think I can adjust the IVO stop washer to get
more rpm. Climbout is 1200 fpm measured on a variometer.
Dialed prop up at cruise and took three readings in three directions,
three separate times. Ran thru the true airspeed calculator at:
http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/True%20Air%20Speed/true_airspeed_calculator.htm
Got cruise speeds of 106, 107 and 114.
I was hoping for a cruise of 110 mph, and I think I might have
come really close to achieving it.
Obviously, more data will need to be collected. Winds aloft
were at about 30 mph, I'd like to take data on a calm day.
Thats it for now.
TimEgan
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: XL VNE, again |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rico Voss <vozzen@yahoo.com>
Nick's prompt response confirms what several have
suggested, such as:
>... I would guess that the VNE has been lowered to
> meet more stringent design loading criteria for SLA
> certification...
> Steve Adams
From Nick today:
"The 3rd edition of the drawings have incorporated changes
for the S-LSA
ready to fly
Zodiac CH 601 XL. When the aircraft is registered as an
Experimental,
it is acceptable
to continue to use the 1st and 2nd edition design speed
limitation
shown on
drawing 6-X-1"
Thanks to all who commented.
--RV, XL/3300, soon to get back at it.
__________________________________
http://farechase.yahoo.com
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Powder Coat - 701 Cabin 4130 steel tubing |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
I am thinking about having the steel tubing in my 701 cabin powder coated. Have
any of you any experience with powder coating and would you recommend this?
From what I understand about this type coating, it will be very durable, and
should prevent any rust or other corrosion.
However, as I continually prove to myself, my list of things that don't work gets
longer every day.
Gary Gower in Mexico..... Nick basically agreed with you. Thanks for the advice.
Tommy Walker in Alabama
dO nOt ArChIvE
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Powder Coat - 701 Cabin 4130 steel tubing |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
>
>I am thinking about having the steel tubing in my 701 cabin powder coated. Have
any of you any experience with powder coating and would you recommend this?
From what I understand about this type coating, it will be very durable, and
should prevent any rust or other corrosion.
>
>However, as I continually prove to myself, my list of things that don't work gets
longer every day.
>
>Gary Gower in Mexico..... Nick basically agreed with you. Thanks for the advice.
>
>Tommy Walker in Alabama
>dO nOt ArChIvE
Powder is very durable, almost impossible to touch up and requires a VERY clean
substrate for adhesion (I sold the stuff for 33 yrs). Be sure you tell the applicator
that this will be an outside application and they will put on something
other than epoxy (chalks in uv). A LOT (not all, but a lot) of powders are
brittle, especially if put on thick. I can get it done for free but I'm using
an epoxy primer and polyurethane topcoat, same corrosion resistance , easy to
touch up and more durable (flexable)finish.. John
Message 25
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Chris tests every one of his designs before he releases the plans, He
does most of the tests without a parachute but in the final stages he
don's a chute , does a flutter test, tries to do a spin test ( planes
won't get there) and exceeds the Vne by a healthy margin. This is the
only reason why he puts on a chute. For me, I would forget the chute and
install diapers for what he puts the plane through!!!
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Weston, Jim
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL VNE, again
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
Paul,
FWIW. When I was considering the purchase of my 601HDS, Nicholas gave
me ride in the factory plane at Mexico, Mo. After the ride, I talked
with him about the VNE testing, and many other items. He indicated
that, for the 601HDS, his dad (Chris) did the VNE testing of each model.
He said that it was the only time that he sees his dad wear a parachute
when testing their aircraft. For the HDS he indicated that it had been
dive tested to 210 mph without any flutter problems. He indicated that
they list the VNE at 160 mph to give a good safety margin; knowing that
there are going to be variables in the quality of construction from one
plane to another.
You might ask if Chris still does this as part of the test flight
process for a new design.
I saw Bill Phillips response to this post, and I agree with him. What
seems like sharp answers are some of the differences of language
translation (English is a second language for them) and cultural
differences. I experienced some responses like you describe while I was
building, but found that if I questioned further they were always very
interested in being helpful to the building process.
Have fun,
Jim Weston
Ch601hds, Stratus
Concord, Ga.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Mulwitz
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL VNE, again
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
--> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Bill,
In general I agree with you. I can't imagine bailing out of a perfectly
good airplane.
This question comes up with regard to the speed stress testing discussed
in relation to VNE. One writer appropriately suggested wearing a
parachute while intentionally flying your one-off experimental plane
above the designer's VNE limit. Of course, this doesn't do a whole lot
of good if you can't get out of the cockpit after the wings fall off.
Oddly enough, I asked this question of ZAC's president, Sebastian
Heintz, earlier this year before ordering my kit. His cocky response
was some rude remark saying they had not tested the pilot egress system
or something like that.
Best regards,
Paul
XL wings
At 08:03 AM 11/1/2005, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
>
>Paul, interesting question. Can a person parachute from a XL with
>forward tilt canopy? I would say sure. All you need is exploding
>bolts to release the two front hinge points. Also might be possible
>with an inverted stall, but your timing would have to be perfect just
>as negative G and zero wind merge. Me, I'll just ride the bird on down,
>FWIW, Best regards, Bill
--
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
11/1/2005
--
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
11/1/2005
Message 26
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| Subject: | Powder Coat - 701 Cabin 4130 steel tubing |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
There is a MAJOR downside to powder coat! It is very possible for a
crack to develop and even become a danger before you even notice a
ripple in the coating. For inspection reasons alone I would not use
powder coat on anything important.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tommy
Walker
Subject: Zenith-List: Powder Coat - 701 Cabin 4130 steel tubing
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
I am thinking about having the steel tubing in my 701 cabin powder
coated. Have any of you any experience with powder coating and would
you recommend this? From what I understand about this type coating, it
will be very durable, and should prevent any rust or other corrosion.
However, as I continually prove to myself, my list of things that don't
work gets longer every day.
Gary Gower in Mexico..... Nick basically agreed with you. Thanks for
the advice.
Tommy Walker in Alabama
dO nOt ArChIvE
--
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
11/1/2005
--
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
11/1/2005
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | XL Headroom questions again |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Rusty head over to Flight Crafters in Florida
http://www.flightcrafters.citymaker.com/page/page/1694089.htm
Or go have a seat in William Wynnes 601XL TD Also in Florida
http://www.flycorvair.com/
There are a few in your area and you should not have a problem finding a
601 to sit in. In Fact, if you talk really nice to William Wynne or Gus
you may even get a flight behind a fantastic Corvair Conversion.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rusty
Subject: Zenith-List: XL Headroom questions again
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
Greetings,
Thanks for all the on, and off list comments on the XL performance
numbers.
I'm now convinced that it will do what they say it will do, as long as
you
give it a reasonable power plant.
The next problem is headroom. I'm tall from the waist up, and often
have
headroom issues. If someone could do a test measurement for me, I'd be
one
step closer to ordering an XL kit.
Can someone sit in a completed plane, and measure the minimum clearance
between your head, and the canopy? To make the measurement useful, I'll
also need to know how thick the cushion is (or do the test without the
cushion), and how tall you are sitting down. For example, my seated
height
is 38.5", which I get from sitting on the floor, with my back against a
wall.
If someone can point me to a completed XL near Pensacola FL, I could try
it
myself, but otherwise, this will have to do for now.
Thanks,
Rusty (almost future XL builder)
--
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
11/1/2005
--
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
11/1/2005
Message 28
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| Subject: | XL Headroom questions again |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
Thanks Mark, but neither of those places are exactly close by. The nearest
one is about a 6 hour drive. I'm hoping for something a little closer, or
at least for someone to do the measurement I mentioned.
BTW, I'm the rotary engine guy, so no extra points for Corvair installations
:-)
Cheers,
Rusty (zoom, zoom)
Rusty head over to Flight Crafters in Florida
http://www.flightcrafters.citymaker.com/page/page/1694089.htm
Or go have a seat in William Wynnes 601XL TD Also in Florida
http://www.flycorvair.com/
There are a few in your area and you should not have a problem finding a 601
to sit in. In Fact, if you talk really nice to William Wynne or Gus you may
even get a flight behind a fantastic Corvair Conversion.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: CH-701 advice |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave G." <d.goddard@ns.sympatico.ca>
Can't be this one as the plane I have located is not yet flying.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Trevor Page" <webmaster@upac.ca>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH-701 advice
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
>
> Dave I might know which plane you are speaking of.
>
> From personal experience I would remove that engine and install a
> used 80HP 912 or something akin to that. Tom Mills in Waterloo can
> tell you plenty about his experiences with engines, having had 2 GEO
> metro engines and now a 912.
> Also, if I do think it is the plane you are referring to, the right
> side top fuselage longeron is spliced having suffered a crash in
> Quebec some years ago.
> Again, I know of only 1 701 in the area with a VW engine so my
> assumption is this very plane.
> Please contact me off-list to discuss this if you wish to discuss this.
>
> Trev Page
> C-IDUS 601HD R912
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2005, at 5:31 PM, Dave G. wrote:
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave G."
>> <d.goddard@ns.sympatico.ca>
>>
>> I am dragging my feet terribly over a 701 that I feel is a fairly
>> good match
>> for my needs. It fails in that it is plans built and therfore
>> registered as
>> a BULA (Canada regs).
>>
>> It appears to be well built and I guess I could get over not being
>> able to
>> carry passengers. I am concerned about the motor. It is a VW with a
>> PSRU. I
>> wonder if this is a good choice. the builder indicates that it is a
>> 1600 and
>> I'm wondering if it is powerful enough even for a 701.
>>
>> It is not quite finished and has not flown. Some of you in Ontario
>> might be
>> familiar with it. Any insights will be appreciated.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 30
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I agree...But what do you mean "planes won't get there" with respect to
spins. My HDS spins very well and quite rapidly...or did you mean
something else?
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zodie
Rocket
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL VNE, again
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Chris tests every one of his designs before he releases the plans, He
does most of the tests without a parachute but in the final stages he
don's a chute , does a flutter test, tries to do a spin test ( planes
won't get there) and exceeds the Vne by a healthy margin. This is the
only reason why he puts on a chute. For me, I would forget the chute and
install diapers for what he puts the plane through!!!
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
Message 31
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Hey Trevor it wouldn't be the one in Godderich would it?
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave G.
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH-701 advice
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave G." <d.goddard@ns.sympatico.ca>
Can't be this one as the plane I have located is not yet flying.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Trevor Page" <webmaster@upac.ca>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH-701 advice
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
>
> Dave I might know which plane you are speaking of.
>
> From personal experience I would remove that engine and install a
> used 80HP 912 or something akin to that. Tom Mills in Waterloo can
> tell you plenty about his experiences with engines, having had 2 GEO
> metro engines and now a 912.
> Also, if I do think it is the plane you are referring to, the right
> side top fuselage longeron is spliced having suffered a crash in
> Quebec some years ago.
> Again, I know of only 1 701 in the area with a VW engine so my
> assumption is this very plane.
> Please contact me off-list to discuss this if you wish to discuss
this.
>
> Trev Page
> C-IDUS 601HD R912
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2005, at 5:31 PM, Dave G. wrote:
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave G."
>> <d.goddard@ns.sympatico.ca>
>>
>> I am dragging my feet terribly over a 701 that I feel is a fairly
>> good match
>> for my needs. It fails in that it is plans built and therfore
>> registered as
>> a BULA (Canada regs).
>>
>> It appears to be well built and I guess I could get over not being
>> able to
>> carry passengers. I am concerned about the motor. It is a VW with a
>> PSRU. I
>> wonder if this is a good choice. the builder indicates that it is a
>> 1600 and
>> I'm wondering if it is powerful enough even for a 701.
>>
>> It is not quite finished and has not flown. Some of you in Ontario
>> might be
>> familiar with it. Any insights will be appreciated.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
11/1/2005
--
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
11/1/2005
Message 32
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Best laugh I've had in a long time!
Paul
do not archive
At 02:16 PM 11/1/2005, you wrote:
>I would forget the chute and
>install diapers for what he puts the plane through!!!
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: CH-701 advice |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
I agree. I am going to try the 1835cc before moving up to the bigger cc VW
engine and redrive.
B.J. Schwaller's 701 with a 1915cc VW with Valley Eng redrive flys
great. With at least as good of performane as the 80 Hp rotax.
Monty Graves
At 02:28 AM 10/31/2005 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
>Dave,
>VW power with a PRSU should be ideal for a two place 701
>regardless of what BULA means in Canadian regulations.
>1600 cc is perhaps a better choice than many of the overpowered
>engines in the 90-120 hp range. Should fly better, not faster, but better.
>
>Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>do not archive
>
>Dave G. wrote:
>
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave G." <d.goddard@ns.sympatico.ca>
> >
> >I am dragging my feet terribly over a 701 that I feel is a fairly good
> match
> >for my needs. It fails in that it is plans built and therfore registered as
> >a BULA (Canada regs).
> >
> >It appears to be well built and I guess I could get over not being able to
> >carry passengers. I am concerned about the motor. It is a VW with a PSRU. I
> >wonder if this is a good choice. the builder indicates that it is a 1600
> and
> >I'm wondering if it is powerful enough even for a 701.
> >
> >It is not quite finished and has not flown. Some of you in Ontario might be
> >familiar with it. Any insights will be appreciated.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 34
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T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
I too considered finding a way to jettison the canopy but for another
reason. I was going to mount a BRS chute behind the seats.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL VNE, again
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Paul, interesting question. Can a person parachute from a XL with forward
tilt canopy? I would say sure. All you need is exploding bolts to release
the two front hinge points. Also might be possible with an inverted stall,
but your timing would have to be perfect just as negative G and zero wind
merge. Me, I'll just ride the bird on down, FWIW, Best regards, Bill Do Not
Archive
Message 35
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| Subject: | XL Headroom questions again |
T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Looking at http://www.frappr.com/zenith601 I don't see any 601's really
close to you. But if you are planning a road trip in almost any direction it
seems like you will pass by some builder's home. Also I believe there are
things you can do to the seat "pan" to lower it a little.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rusty
Subject: Zenith-List: XL Headroom questions again
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
Greetings,
Thanks for all the on, and off list comments on the XL performance numbers.
I'm now convinced that it will do what they say it will do, as long as you
give it a reasonable power plant.
The next problem is headroom. I'm tall from the waist up, and often have
headroom issues. If someone could do a test measurement for me, I'd be one
step closer to ordering an XL kit.
Can someone sit in a completed plane, and measure the minimum clearance
between your head, and the canopy? To make the measurement useful, I'll
also need to know how thick the cushion is (or do the test without the
cushion), and how tall you are sitting down. For example, my seated height
is 38.5", which I get from sitting on the floor, with my back against a
wall.
If someone can point me to a completed XL near Pensacola FL, I could try it
myself, but otherwise, this will have to do for now.
Thanks,
Rusty (almost future XL builder)
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: building process on fuse |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt & Jo" <archermj@swbell.net>
Thanks for the input. I emailed ZAC and got their response today. They
said the same thing. I am going to go with the original design. No since
adding weight. Thanks for the heads up. Lesson learned it is always good
to ask ZAC. Glad I hadn't drilled anything yet.
Cheers
Matt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: building process on fuse
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
>
> The reasoning behind the beefed up top stiffener was to bring all
> versions of the XL into line and only have one set of drawings, so the
> changes necessary for the Sport Pilot category are updates on our plans
> and the changes necessary for the ELSA? ALUA?( I'm Canadian and still
> can't figure out which is which yet) that will be used for flight
> instruction will be an update on our plans. SO if you have ever been in
> a circuit behind several student all learning about the term wheel
> barrowing then you can understand the need for Zenith to beef up the
> stiffener. For the rest of us the old version is just fine and has been
> used trouble free since the start of the Zodiac series. Not the same can
> be said for the 701. Changes were necessary on that model, since it was
> originally designed for a 503 2 stroke engine and people were hanging
> Subaru's and 912's. Therefore, changes were necessary to accommodate the
> heavier engines.
> So end result change is not necessary for the majority of us and it
> would likely just add unwanted weight. But If you plan or have a history
> of 1 wheel landings then by all means add the stiffeners it won't hurt
> anything.
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | XL Headroom questions again T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG |
autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
I love the frappr maps, and had already noticed a void around my area.
Worst case, I'll find someone with a plane at an airport in the near
vicinity (as the RV flies), and get one of my buddies to take me over to see
it. Of course this would be easier if I hadn't sold the RV-3 :-)
Cheers,
Rusty
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
--> <craig@craigandjean.com>
Looking at http://www.frappr.com/zenith601 I don't see any 601's really
close to you. But if you are planning a road trip in almost any direction it
seems like you will pass by some builder's home. Also I believe there are
things you can do to the seat "pan" to lower it a little.
-- Craig
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: XL VNE, again T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled |
version=3.0.3
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Craig,
I recommend before you do the ballistic chute, you look up the number of
times one of the 601 Series
aircraft needed to be abandoned in flight. Most of the time the plane
incurs difficulty close to the ground
where little if any use could be made of the BC. I think the same of
the idea of wearing a parachute,
having used one trying to anticipate problems on my first biplane
project. I did learn to use the chute,
but broke a leg on the third jump. The planes having the most trouble
needing the BC are the slick glass
birds that spin rapidly out of control or get into crazy weather they
can't manage. 601s don't seem to have
the incidents that deteriorate to make it worth while. I'd rather fly
the plane down than even consider
jumping into the tree tops with a chute.
My canopy was unlatched on an earlier flight and it comes up about 5-6
inches and just floats there. I closed
it by hand without problems, but doubt it'd open easily far enough to
allow one to clear the plane well.
My advice is save the money and fly the plane.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Craig Payne wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
>I too considered finding a way to jettison the canopy but for another
>reason. I was going to mount a BRS chute behind the seats.
>
>-- Craig
>
>
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: CH-701 advice vw... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
I will go at least with the 1,835 cc just a little more work, but the extra power
(always in hand) for a STOL airplane will be good to have, final weight is
practically the same.
With altitude (or airfield is at 5,029 ft ASL) the VW engine in direct drive has
not enough power to take off in any airplane...
A Kitfox III was tested here with a bigger displacement (about 2,000 cc plus )
with no success.
Altitude limits the VW performance a lot. been there done that.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland
Dave,
VW power with a PRSU should be ideal for a two place 701
regardless of what BULA means in Canadian regulations.
1600 cc is perhaps a better choice than many of the overpowered
engines in the 90-120 hp range. Should fly better, not faster, but better.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Dave G. wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave G."
>
>I am dragging my feet terribly over a 701 that I feel is a fairly good match
>for my needs. It fails in that it is plans built and therfore registered as
>a BULA (Canada regs).
>
>It appears to be well built and I guess I could get over not being able to
>carry passengers. I am concerned about the motor. It is a VW with a PSRU. I
>wonder if this is a good choice. the builder indicates that it is a 1600 and
>I'm wondering if it is powerful enough even for a 701.
>
>It is not quite finished and has not flown. Some of you in Ontario might be
>familiar with it. Any insights will be appreciated.
>
>
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 40
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| Subject: | XL VNE, again T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled |
version=3.0.3
SUBJ_HAS_SPACES,T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
All true although BRS's started off in the ultra-lite world (which have
their own unique safety issues). Anyway note that everything in my post was
stated in the past-tense. Right now I am concentrating on finishing the
plane and getting my sport pilot license (this week I hope!).
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry McFarland
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL VNE, again T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG
autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland
--> <larrymc@qconline.com>
Craig,
I recommend before you do the ballistic chute, you look up the number of
times one of the 601 Series aircraft needed to be abandoned in flight. Most
of the time the plane incurs difficulty close to the ground where little if
any use could be made of the BC. I think the same of the idea of wearing a
parachute, having used one trying to anticipate problems on my first biplane
project. I did learn to use the chute, but broke a leg on the third jump.
The planes having the most trouble needing the BC are the slick glass birds
that spin rapidly out of control or get into crazy weather they can't
manage. 601s don't seem to have the incidents that deteriorate to make it
worth while. I'd rather fly the plane down than even consider jumping into
the tree tops with a chute.
My canopy was unlatched on an earlier flight and it comes up about 5-6
inches and just floats there. I closed it by hand without problems, but
doubt it'd open easily far enough to allow one to clear the plane well.
My advice is save the money and fly the plane.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive
Craig Payne wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
>--> <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
>I too considered finding a way to jettison the canopy but for another
>reason. I was going to mount a BRS chute behind the seats.
>
>-- Craig
>
>
>
>
Message 41
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| Subject: | Form materials - MDF |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: rlendon@comcast.net
Thanks Carlos,
I do most of my cutting outside to keep the dust off the 86 Fiero, but will wear
mask anyway. That stuff is full of some sort of glue that can't be good for
inhalation.
Ron
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa
>
> Ron, if you are going to use each form more than once, it's worth using a couple
> of poliurethane
> coats. Makes the forms real hard.
>
> Have fun - and wear a mask, the dusk is very fine and gets *everywhere*.
>
> Carlos
>
> --- rlendon@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: rlendon@comcast.net
> >
> > That's the way I will go. MDF.
> >
> > I did make one rib form for the Stabilizer out of Plywood and it had gaps
> right where I needed
> > edge radius. Right then I new there had to be a better way.
> >
> > This list is really gonna help.
> >
> > --
> > Ron Lendon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Thanks Carlos,
I do most of my cutting outside to keep the dust off the 86 Fiero, but will wear
mask anyway. That stuff is full of some sort of glue that can't be good for
inhalation.
Ron
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <CARLOSFSA@YAHOO.COM>
Ron, if you are going to use each form more than once, it's worth using a couple
of poliurethane
coats. Makes the forms real hard.
Have fun - and wear a mask, the dusk is very fine and gets *everywhere*.
Carlos
--- rlendon@comcast.net wrote:
-- Zenith-List message posted by: rlendon@comcast.net
That's the way I will go. MDF.
I did make one rib form for the Stabilizer out of Plywood and it had gaps
right where I needed
edge radius. Right then I new there had to be a better way.
This list is really gonna help.
--
Ron Lendon
Message 42
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| Subject: | XL Headroom questions again T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG |
autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3
SUBJ_HAS_SPACES,T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Don't forget the builders database on the Zenith site. I don't think
non-builders can access it but any builder can pull-up a set of entries by
state (but only those who have added an entry and kept it up to date). I
just did some searches and got these numbers for Zodiac 601's of *any* type
(HD, HDS, XL):
Alabama - 11 (1 listed as finished)
Florida - 15 (3 listed as finished)
Georgia - 15 (3 listed as finished)
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rusty
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL Headroom questions again T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG
autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
I love the frappr maps, and had already noticed a void around my area.
Worst case, I'll find someone with a plane at an airport in the near
vicinity (as the RV flies), and get one of my buddies to take me over to see
it. Of course this would be easier if I hadn't sold the RV-3 :-)
Cheers,
Rusty
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
--> <craig@craigandjean.com>
Looking at http://www.frappr.com/zenith601 I don't see any 601's really
close to you. But if you are planning a road trip in almost any direction it
seems like you will pass by some builder's home. Also I believe there are
things you can do to the seat "pan" to lower it a little.
-- Craig
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: XL VNE, again... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
I am not an aeroautical expert (neither a Test Pilot) but I think that the first
VNE value will be first estimated by "numbers" (computer or else) then the
design team will test it in a Test Plane (prototype?) with special hindges
for bail out (one of the bigger Canard's model had this type of test canopy at
least) or a BRS...
But I think that FOR US CHICKENS :-) diving just enough to get NEAR the VNE will
be adventure enough, at least for me...
Like racing Moms car in some lone streets with the gang, as a youngster, hoping
not to crash the car.
Some friends did totaled at least the front wheels and suspension (sp?) with the
shoulder in a "fast" curve.
Not my idea in an airplane, as father of 4 kids... 3 still in school.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
Hi Gary,
I appreciate your comment on VNE. It does bring up an old question
for me: Does it make any sense to wear a parachute in a plane with a
front hinged canopy? Is there any way to bail out?
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
At 03:42 PM 10/31/2005, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower
>
>VNE can be flown tested in a carefully controled dive flight, with
>a very gentle recovering action, not something to do on a regular
>basis and without a chute...
>
>Saludos
>Gary Gower
>
>
>VideoFlyer@aol.com wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com
>
><<<>speed of 111% of
>Vne during phase I testing to establish the safe operting limits of the
>airframe.>>>>
>
>Are you sure about that? What kind of an engine am I supposed to use to get
>my 601XL to 180 mph???
>
>Dave
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
---------------------------------
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Shavings in stabilizer |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Regarding cables... I will better preflight and "every year check" my cables
and control linkage...
Recovering from a high angle (either side) is dificult with only trim... when
you notice that a cable broked, is because the plane is not in level trim attitude,
for sure... Lot of luck or a Hollywood movie pilot needed to recover
the plane before it crashes.
Also preflight the trim, just in case :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower
do not archive
chrisoz@bmail.com.au wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: chrisoz@bmail.com.au
Hi Michael,
funny you should mention this! I did exactly that last night. I was to lazy to
get the vacuum cleaner, so I turned the stabilizer around, lifted it up and
shock vigorously to get the crud out. Most of it landed on my head (first time
baldness turned out to be an advantage) and the loose top skin flapped out and
hit me on the nose with the edge. Now I don't have to emphasise the cutting
qualities of the thin sheets, enough to say it was painfull, bloody and
embarrassing. At least the cut is very straight across the nose...
My tip: use a vacuum cleaner :-)
In regards to the control torque tube, the tube is held back firmly by the
cable tension. If the cable ever breaks the second bearing is not going to do
much good I am afraid. You will have to fly the plane with electric trim then,
works quite well and I would recommend to practice that on a regular basis.
Greetings from Down Under,
Chris
do not archive
> I am about to close up my horizontal stabilizer. Before I do, I would
> appreciate any comments on the need to meticulously remove the metal
> shavings and filings that have accumulated inside. As you may
> remember, half of the skin is riveted on before the other side is
> drilled, causing lots of shavings to fall in the skeleton.
>
> Should I poke, prod, blow, brush, and vacuum out every single shaving.
> Obviously I am getting most out by turning it upside down and
> dumping, with some brushing and some blowing. But, some of them end
> up wedged in places and some just don't seem to fall out. Will they
> do any damage in the short, medium, or long term? The question is
> just how much is necessary.
>
> Thanks for all your thoughts on the matter.
>
> Michael Valentine
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 45
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| Subject: | Parachutes kill. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
I used to have a bowling partner who was also a retired USAF fighter
pilot. According to him the expected survival rate for guys who
eject from planes is 50%. That doesn't count the ones who (like him)
wind up with a broken back and in the hospital for 6 months after an
ejection.
Keep in mind these guys have automatic ejection seats that open the
'chute for them at a good altitude and make exit from the plane
automatic and fast. Their ejection systems also deal with getting
past the canopy.
I agree with Larry. Staying with the plane is the best choice in
nearly all cases.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
At 12:14 AM 10/31/2005, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
>Craig,
>I recommend before you do the ballistic chute, you look up the number of
>times one of the 601 Series
>aircraft needed to be abandoned in flight. Most of the time the plane
>incurs difficulty close to the ground
>where little if any use could be made of the BC. I think the same of
>the idea of wearing a parachute,
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 46
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version=3.0.3
| Subject: | XL Headroom questions again |
T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net> T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG
autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3
Hi Rusty,
Also, if you make it to January 12 without getting a ride in a Zodiac
you might hijack an RV and go to Sebring for the LSA show. It was
postponed from last weekend due to a few rain storms.
I suspect there will be many copies of every LSA in existence at that show.
Good luck
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
At 05:07 PM 11/1/2005, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
>
>I love the frappr maps, and had already noticed a void around my area.
>Worst case, I'll find someone with a plane at an airport in the near
>vicinity (as the RV flies), and get one of my buddies to take me over to see
>it. Of course this would be easier if I hadn't sold the RV-3 :-)
>
>Cheers,
>Rusty
>
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
>--> <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
>Looking at http://www.frappr.com/zenith601 I don't see any 601's really
>close to you. But if you are planning a road trip in almost any direction it
>seems like you will pass by some builder's home. Also I believe there are
>things you can do to the seat "pan" to lower it a little.
>
>-- Craig
>
>
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Parachutes kill. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair@att.net>
Sounds like a good argument for a BRS to me.
Mike Sinclair N701TD
Back in the air soon, with a new motor mount & a 912S this time.
Paul Mulwitz wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
> I used to have a bowling partner who was also a retired USAF fighter
> pilot. According to him the expected survival rate for guys who
> eject from planes is 50%. That doesn't count the ones who (like him)
> wind up with a broken back and in the hospital for 6 months after an
> ejection.
>
> Keep in mind these guys have automatic ejection seats that open the
> 'chute for them at a good altitude and make exit from the plane
> automatic and fast. Their ejection systems also deal with getting
> past the canopy.
>
> I agree with Larry. Staying with the plane is the best choice in
> nearly all cases.
>
> Paul
> XL wings
> do not archive
>
> At 12:14 AM 10/31/2005, you wrote:
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
> >
> >Craig,
> >I recommend before you do the ballistic chute, you look up the number of
> >times one of the 601 Series
> >aircraft needed to be abandoned in flight. Most of the time the plane
> >incurs difficulty close to the ground
> >where little if any use could be made of the BC. I think the same of
> >the idea of wearing a parachute,
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> Paul Mulwitz
> 32013 NE Dial Road
> Camas, WA 98607
> ---------------------------------------------
>
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: CH-701 advice. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Je, je, je,
Trevor is right, outside USA, aviation comunity in any country is Smallville
:-) .
We know each other... Good or bad.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Mexico.
Do not archive.
Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page
Dave I might know which plane you are speaking of.
From personal experience I would remove that engine and install a
used 80HP 912 or something akin to that. Tom Mills in Waterloo can
tell you plenty about his experiences with engines, having had 2 GEO
metro engines and now a 912.
Also, if I do think it is the plane you are referring to, the right
side top fuselage longeron is spliced having suffered a crash in
Quebec some years ago.
Again, I know of only 1 701 in the area with a VW engine so my
assumption is this very plane.
Please contact me off-list to discuss this if you wish to discuss this.
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Oct 31, 2005, at 5:31 PM, Dave G. wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave G."
>
>
> I am dragging my feet terribly over a 701 that I feel is a fairly
> good match
> for my needs. It fails in that it is plans built and therfore
> registered as
> a BULA (Canada regs).
>
> It appears to be well built and I guess I could get over not being
> able to
> carry passengers. I am concerned about the motor. It is a VW with a
> PSRU. I
> wonder if this is a good choice. the builder indicates that it is a
> 1600 and
> I'm wondering if it is powerful enough even for a 701.
>
> It is not quite finished and has not flown. Some of you in Ontario
> might be
> familiar with it. Any insights will be appreciated.
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 49
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| Subject: | XL Headroom questions again T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG |
autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3 SUBJ_HAS_SPACES,T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
Hi Craig,
I've been through the builders list, and Sebastian sent it to me last week
as well. So far, no joy on local builders who A- have email addresses that
don't bounce, and B- have enough completed to do me any good. With any
luck, someone will come through with the measurement I'm looking for, and
that will be enough to go on. Otherwise, I'll buy some RV-7 gas, and fly
somewhere.
Thanks,
Rusty
PS- thanks also to Paul. Hopefully, I can find someone closer than Sebring,
and I really need it to be way sooner than that as well.
Do not archive
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
--> <craig@craigandjean.com>
Don't forget the builders database on the Zenith site. I don't think
non-builders can access it but any builder can pull-up a set of entries by
state (but only those who have added an entry and kept it up to date). I
just did some searches and got these numbers for Zodiac 601's of *any* type
(HD, HDS, XL):
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: Powder Coat - 701 Cabin 4130 steel tubing |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Hello Tommy,
Here I am again...
Definitly NO please. I do powder coating in my factory as a daily basis. I
had the same idea, (was free for me:-) BUT Since years ago, the advise from
the aviation comunity has been always not to use it.
The reason they gave me is good for me: The powder coating is thick and make a
shell by itself. and has some kind of elasticity.... This will cover any early
crack in the metal or welds before you can see it in preflight. a very dangerous
situation if it happens.
I was advised from the "olders" to use only white or clear color "normal" paint
inside the engine comparment, this to see any cracks in preflight or any trace
of oil from the engine. Keep the area as clean as possible always, is a good
way to have it checked also.
Cleaning (or washing?) the airplane is a way of preflight.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Tommy Walker <twalker@cableone.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker"
I am thinking about having the steel tubing in my 701 cabin powder coated. Have
any of you any experience with powder coating and would you recommend this? From
what I understand about this type coating, it will be very durable, and should
prevent any rust or other corrosion.
However, as I continually prove to myself, my list of things that don't work gets
longer every day.
Gary Gower in Mexico..... Nick basically agreed with you. Thanks for the advice.
Tommy Walker in Alabama
dO nOt ArChIvE
---------------------------------
Message 51
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| Subject: | XL Headroom questions again T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG |
autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3 SUBJ_HAS_SPACES,T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
It's a big investment so I would go to the trouble to find and sit in a
finished (on the landing gear) XL before I spent a dime. And probably fly it
to! I'm only 5' 9" but fat so I had less to worry about. But I would have
taken my own advice if I had continued to consider the Sonex. But as you
canceled that order you have more time to consider things. Just don't forget
that the Zenith factory lead-times are getting longer and longer. Or will
you plans-build?
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rusty
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL Headroom questions again T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG
autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3 SUBJ_HAS_SPACES,T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG
autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
Hi Craig,
I've been through the builders list, and Sebastian sent it to me last week
as well. So far, no joy on local builders who A- have email addresses that
don't bounce, and B- have enough completed to do me any good. With any
luck, someone will come through with the measurement I'm looking for, and
that will be enough to go on. Otherwise, I'll buy some RV-7 gas, and fly
somewhere.
Thanks,
Rusty
PS- thanks also to Paul. Hopefully, I can find someone closer than Sebring,
and I really need it to be way sooner than that as well.
Do not archive
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
--> <craig@craigandjean.com>
Don't forget the builders database on the Zenith site. I don't think
non-builders can access it but any builder can pull-up a set of entries by
state (but only those who have added an entry and kept it up to date). I
just did some searches and got these numbers for Zodiac 601's of *any* type
(HD, HDS, XL):
Message 52
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| Subject: | Parachutes kill. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
I too have given this some thought, and reasoned that I would only feel
comfortable pulling that lever when I had no other option. But there in lies
the problem, if you have the altitude you need to pull the chute you also
should have other options. Also, how would I know that I had no other option
until after it is too late (sometimes to early as on takeoff) to pull the
chute (low altitude). And the what if factor. What if I set off this
dynamite and it rips off the tail of my plane along with some attachment
points. Now I'm really screwed. I know I would try my best to sit my baby
down somewhere safe before I would elect to tear her apart with dynamite. It
may sound silly but if an in-flight emergency ever happens to me (fair
chance of that) I don't want more decisions to make. I just want to do what
I've been trained to do without hesitation. Not saying BRS units are not a
good idea in some cases. I suspect these installations are not easy to do.
And, how do you know you have done it correctly? I would be afraid of
testing the quality of my particular installation whenever I had other
options. Short of building myself a test plane, in addition to the one I'm
already building, I don't think I would ever feel confident. What it boils
down to for me is, would I be able to pull the lever as long as I had
altitude? NO, and any other time it would be useless.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
At 12:14 AM 10/31/2005, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
>Craig,
>I recommend before you do the ballistic chute, you look up the number of
>times one of the 601 Series
>aircraft needed to be abandoned in flight. Most of the time the plane
>incurs difficulty close to the ground
>where little if any use could be made of the BC. I think the same of
>the idea of wearing a parachute,
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 53
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| Subject: | Parachutes kill. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
BTW I only responded to this to see what others have to say about my
particular train of thought. I may be wrong about it. Voicing my opinion is
one way of finding out if there is information I am missing.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: XL Headroom questions again |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "G. Harris (Pumpkin Man)" <pumpkin_man@autoinsanity.com>
FWIW, I have the same concerns in any of the kitplanes I have been
considering. I am 6' 3" and about 240 lb. Likewise, I have a tall sitting
height relative to my overall height. I have spent quite a bit of time
wedging myself into experimentals to check the fit. That is a major criteria
for me.
I was home on leave and attended Copperstate this year. I sat in an RV-7,
601XL, and a 701. I also sat in a Thorp T-211.
The aircraft with the most room for me by far was the 601XL, even moreso
than the RV-7. Headroom was no problem at all, even on the thick factory
cushions Zenith has. Legroom was fine, and can be lengthened even more from
the factory aircraft. Widthwise, it was fine.
The RV was a bit shorter on headroom, particularly to the side. I could
contact the left side of the canopy pretty easily. I would have to use a
thin seat cushion to keep a headset from rubbing.
Headroom in the 701 was great, but widthwise I barely fit. Being a
helicopter pilot, I really liked the views from the 701 with the doors off.
I just wish it was a little faster.
I went down to Tucson and wedged myself into a Thorp T-211. Unfortunately,
it was way too small. I had to lay sideways to close the canopy, and my
knees were wedged under the instrument panel. There was actually more room
than I thought, but still very tight, and a flight of any length would be
very uncomfortable for me. A shame, because that little airplane is so well
built, and would be great with a Corvair. Also, I sat in an RV-4 a while
back and thought I was going to have to use a can opener to get myself out.
The bottom line is, if you can fit in an RV-7, you can fit comfortably in an
XL, IMHO. Try before you buy of course, but I think you'll find the XL is
unique among the two-seaters for its interior space.
MAJ George B. Harris
Jetranger Instructor Pilot
Senior Iraqi Air Force AST
Taji, Iraq
DPN 073404153
george.harris2@us.army.mil
Message 55
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| Subject: | Parachutes kill. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Kevin,
I agree with you completely.
I suppose a BRS system is capable of giving some hope to people who
fly themselves into situations they can't handle. I have heard
several people say they would use one to recover from inadvertent
flight into IMC. Personally, I think it would be a lot better
solution to take the training needed to handle that with pilot skills
rather than explosive equipment. Of course a minimal instrument
panel is required for this recovery as well as sufficient pilot
skills. Still the cost is way less than a BRS and you might even
have a nicer ride with all that additional pilot skill
In the remote case where the wings come off at reasonable altitude, I
suppose a parachute or BRS gives you the only chance of survival. On
the other hand, I can't think of a better way to go . . .
As to the likelihood of a catastrophic structure failure in cruise
flight -- I suspect that is a lot more unlikely than winning the big
powerball lottery. Every other case I can imagine where a parachute
might do some good seems to show that good pilot skills have a much
better chance of success.
Best regards,
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
At 09:21 PM 11/1/2005, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
>
>BTW I only responded to this to see what others have to say about my
>particular train of thought. I may be wrong about it. Voicing my opinion is
>one way of finding out if there is information I am missing.
>
>Kevin Bonds
>
>Nashville TN
>
>601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
>
>Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
>
>http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
>
>
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 56
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| Subject: | Re: XL Headroom questions again T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG |
autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3 SUBJ_HAS_SPACES,T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rick" <zodie@adelphia.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL Headroom questions again T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG
autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3 SUBJ_HAS_SPACES,T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG
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> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rusty" <13brv3c@bellsouth.net>
>
> Hi Craig,
>
> I've been through the builders list, and Sebastian sent it to me last week
> as well. So far, no joy on local builders who A- have email addresses
> that
> don't bounce, and B- have enough completed to do me any good. With any
> luck, someone will come through with the measurement I'm looking for, and
> that will be enough to go on. Otherwise, I'll buy some RV-7 gas, and fly
> somewhere.
>
> Thanks,
> Rusty
I wouldn't worry about headroom Rusty. I'm 6'2" and have no problem with
mine.
Besides, YOU are the one who decides how much headroom you have when you
trim the big plexiglass bubble to fit the canopy frame. If you look at
pictures from other builders you'll notice that everyone fits their canopy a
little different. On mine, I raised the back of the bubble a little higher
than the turtledeck for more headroom, then added a small strip of aluminum
to fill the gap. Some pics show the aluminum strips in the front of the
bubble, some don't need ANY filler strip.
Let me see if I can find a picture of mine....
http://www.lightflyers.com/rightrear.jpg
Rick Pitcher
Do not archive
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