Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:16 AM - What's Being Said... (Matt Dralle)
2. 05:53 AM - Re: 601 Crash (John Hines)
3. 06:56 AM - Re: 601 Crash (Larry McFarland)
4. 07:14 AM - Re: 601 Crash (Frank Roskind)
5. 07:48 AM - Re: 601 Crash (N5SL)
6. 07:48 AM - Re: 601 Crash (John Hines)
7. 08:05 AM - Re: Re: Parachutes kill. (Steve Hulland)
8. 08:28 AM - Re: 601 Crash (JAPhillipsGA@AOL.COM)
9. 08:34 AM - Re: Re: Parachutes kill. (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
10. 09:13 AM - Re: 601 Crash (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
11. 10:00 AM - Funeral Arrangements for Jeff Glasserow (Phil Maxson)
12. 10:20 AM - Folding bike for the Zenith 601HDS (P.H. Raker)
13. 10:33 AM - Table plans (Jean-Paul Roy)
14. 10:52 AM - Re: Zenith- 601 crash NY Times article (Condon, Philip M.)
15. 12:11 PM - Re: Re: 601 Crash ()
16. 12:28 PM - Re: Table plans (kevinbonds)
17. 12:43 PM - Re: Re: Parachutes kill. (BATAR@aol.com)
18. 01:01 PM - Engine Failures (Paul Mulwitz)
19. 01:39 PM - Re: Table plans (Zodie Rocket)
20. 01:45 PM - Re: Engine Failures (jim)
21. 01:45 PM - 701 Babbage Area Ideas (JERICKSON03E@aol.com)
22. 01:48 PM - Re: 601 Crash (JERICKSON03E@aol.com)
23. 02:04 PM - Re: Engine Failures (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
24. 02:19 PM - Re: Engine Failures (Mike Fortunato)
25. 02:28 PM - Re: Engine Failures (kobo1)
26. 02:36 PM - Re: Engine Failures (doug kandle)
27. 02:52 PM - Re: Engine Failures (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
28. 03:03 PM - Re: Engine Failures (jim)
29. 03:47 PM - safety - RVs vs Zodiac XL (Kevin Thorp)
30. 03:49 PM - Re: 601 Crash (Larry McFarland)
31. 04:21 PM - Re: Engine Failures (Larry McFarland)
32. 04:50 PM - Re: safety - RVs vs Zodiac XL (Daniel Vandenberg)
33. 04:50 PM - Re: Engine Failures (gary)
34. 05:25 PM - Re: Engine Failures (Steve Hulland)
35. 05:39 PM - Re: Engine Failures (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
36. 09:32 PM - Re: Table plans (Jean-Paul Roy)
37. 09:44 PM - Re: Table plans (Jean-Paul Roy)
Message 1
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| Subject: | What's Being Said... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
First, I'd like say *thank you* to everyone that has already made a Contribution
during this year's List Fund Raiser! If you haven't made your List Contribution
yet, won't you show your support for these valuable services today? Since
there's no advertising or other forms of direct commercialism on these forums,
its solely YOUR GENEROSITY that keeps them running!!
Members have been including some very nice comments along with their Contributions
this year. Please take a minute to read over some of the thoughts your fellow
Listers have expressed regarding the Lists and what they mean to them. What
do the Lists mean to you...?
Please make a Contribution to support the Lists here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin
==================== What Listers Are Saying ====================
...informative web site, great for us in the UK
to keep up to date.
-Malcolm H.
Have been using the "List" since 1995 and it has
really helped keep me flying.
-Deal F.
A great resource. It has help a great deal in
building.
-William R.
...a place to share and learn.
-John H.
I really like getting my info via E-mail.
-Mickey C.
...invaluable service to the community.
-David P.
[These Lists] make building so much easier.
-Robert S.
The listserv has been a life saver!
-James P.
Great service.
-David S.
The List sure was a big help.
-Bernie O.
The Lists reduce mistakes, wasted material/parts,
insomnia, bleeding (caused by heavy and prolonged
head-scratching). Don't start building without
them.
-Carlos S.
Keep up the great work! This is a fantastic
resource for all who are building or thinking
about building!
-Ken B.
Although I'm not a builder, yet, its fun to
read.
-Jonathan R.
An outstanding service for us all.
-Rob S.
I would have NEVER attempted to build if I had
not found this List.
-Rob B.
Without the List, my plane would have never
been completed, and I mean that sincerely.
-Roger M.
It's a great resource!
-Gary B.
I continue to find the list very useful.
-John G.
I appreciate the value of these Lists.
-Fergus K.
Great resource.
-Kevin T.
Excellent web site.
-Michael M.
The message services you provide has saved me
money, solved problems with my aircraft and made
flying much safer for me and my family.
-Lee P.
Great Site!
-James B.
Such a great tool and service to the Aviation
Community.
-William C.
==================== What Listers Are Saying ====================
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" <John.Hines@craftontull.com>
I just joined this list on Friday. I am strongly considering purchasing
a 601 XL kit. Where can I find a complete safety record / accident
history for the 601 series?
John Hines
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
n801bh@netzero.com
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Crash
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com"
<n801bh@netzero.com>
How sad .....................................
god speed to the pilot.
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
How sad .....................................
god speed to the pilot.
do not archive
BenHaas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
John,
I don't believe you can find a comprehensive record of 601 accidents as
there have been relatively few.
The FAA database is as good as it gets, but you'll not find much of
anything that was caused by the design.
This site has covered most of the issues that builders find problematic
and most of the solutions as well.
Pleased to find you're interested in the XL. It's a good plane and a
well developed extension of the 601 series.
The 601 has an excellent safety record and it's a great little plane to
kit-build or scratch-build and fly.
If you need more info on building, there are a lot of support sites for
the 601HD, HDS and the XL.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
John Hines wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" <John.Hines@craftontull.com>
>
>I just joined this list on Friday. I am strongly considering purchasing
>a 601 XL kit. Where can I find a complete safety record / accident
>history for the 601 series?
>
>John Hines
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Roskind" <frankroskind@hotmail.com>
Evne better is the NTSB databse, as aviation accidents are reported to NTSB,
not FAA. You can form your query at": http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp
try zenith, zenair or 601 under model.
From: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Crash
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
John,
I don't believe you can find a comprehensive record of 601 accidents as
there have been relatively few.
The FAA database is as good as it gets, but you'll not find much of
anything that was caused by the design.
This site has covered most of the issues that builders find problematic
and most of the solutions as well.
Pleased to find you're interested in the XL. It's a good plane and a
well developed extension of the 601 series.
The 601 has an excellent safety record and it's a great little plane to
kit-build or scratch-build and fly.
If you need more info on building, there are a lot of support sites for
the 601HD, HDS and the XL.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
John Hines wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines"
<John.Hines@craftontull.com>
>
>I just joined this list on Friday. I am strongly considering purchasing
>a 601 XL kit. Where can I find a complete safety record / accident
>history for the 601 series?
>
>John Hines
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
John:
I have found a lot of information here:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp
A search on "601" gives eighteen crashes since 1995 (I searched from 1980). There
are only a few listed as "fatal." Only three of these were of the "XL" variety.
Substituting "RV" in place of 601 gives 32 pages of accidents. Perhaps
not a fair comparison, but interesting.
Select Category "Airplane" and Homebuilt "Yes" and Make/Model "601"
Good questions and welcome aboard.
Scott Laughlin
601XL / Corvair
www.cooknwithgas.com
Working on Wires and FWF Stuff.
John Hines <John.Hines@craftontull.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines"
I just joined this list on Friday. I am strongly considering purchasing
a 601 XL kit. Where can I find a complete safety record / accident
history for the 601 series?
John Hines
---------------------------------
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" <John.Hines@craftontull.com>
I looked at the NTSB database and found 15 accidents. Only 3 were
fatal. Of course this doesn't include the accident over the weekend.
Considering the number that are flying, that sounds pretty darn good.
John Hines
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank
Roskind
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Crash
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Roskind"
<frankroskind@hotmail.com>
Evne better is the NTSB databse, as aviation accidents are reported to
NTSB,
not FAA. You can form your query at":
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp
try zenith, zenair or 601 under model.
From: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Crash
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland
<larrymc@qconline.com>
John,
I don't believe you can find a comprehensive record of 601 accidents as
there have been relatively few.
The FAA database is as good as it gets, but you'll not find much of
anything that was caused by the design.
This site has covered most of the issues that builders find problematic
and most of the solutions as well.
Pleased to find you're interested in the XL. It's a good plane and a
well developed extension of the 601 series.
The 601 has an excellent safety record and it's a great little plane to
kit-build or scratch-build and fly.
If you need more info on building, there are a lot of support sites for
the 601HD, HDS and the XL.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
John Hines wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines"
<John.Hines@craftontull.com>
>
>I just joined this list on Friday. I am strongly considering
purchasing
>a 601 XL kit. Where can I find a complete safety record / accident
>history for the 601 series?
>
>John Hines
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Parachutes kill. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Steve Hulland <marinegunner@gmail.com>
All,
If I finish this airplane, it will be with BRS - weather or not I fly it. I
may sell it and seed a somewhat simpler (hard to find) design that I can fly
sooner. Not sure. depends on if someone offers me something close to what I
have paid into the airplane ($13,000).
I do intend to fly again - will take some time. I note that my typing is not
as accurate as it was. This is taking ten minutes.
See you tomorrow.
Semper Fi,
Stevey Hulland
CH701
Amado, AZ
do not acrhive
On 11/6/05, William Jeffries <vair601@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Jeffries <vair601@yahoo.com>
>
> Steve,
> Sorry to here of your health condition, sounds like your on the road to
> recovery already.
> Don't give up Marine, our prayers are with you.
>
> Semper Fi, God be with you, Bill Jeffries
>
> Steve Hulland <marinegunner@gmail.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Steve Hulland
>
> All interesting, but I can say this. A week ago Thursday I had a fairly
> big
> stroke while teaching a class. If I had been flying, about all the time I
> would have had to react is to pull a BRS cord and let it deploy. If I had
> been driving, all I could have done is hold the wheel tight, hit brakes
> fairly hard and hoped for a good stop. In either case I may have survived.
> In either case I may not have. But the BRS would have been the only way to
> survive if I had been flying. For me the subject is now mute - if I fly
> again, it will be with another and it will be with a BRS if in my 701.
> Semper Fi,
> Steve Hulland
> CH701
> Amado, AZ
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
> ,
>
>
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
NTSB
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Parachutes kill. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Steve, don't worry about your typing. The fact that your trying at all is a
tribute to your character. And most of us guys on the thread can't spell the
dammed words correctly anyway, Best regards, Bill
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I think it is a fair comparison in a way...As RVs are by far the most
prolific experimental out there. There is also the "performance"
factor....I.e do higher performance aircraft have more accidents and are
those more serious than lower performance A/C?
It is likely that RV's do more cross country work than 601's. As an
annecdote, the Arlington fly in usually has two to three 601's on a good
weather year...I stopped couning RV's at over 50 of them on the same
year. So either way you'll see more RV's in one place at any one time,
so either there are a lot more of them (true) and I bet they are willing
to travel further.
A lot more RV's are IFR equipped too so that may also have a bearing on
the number of accidents.
Bottom line, I just hope none of us become a statistic.
Frank 601HDS 383 hours
RV7A project
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N5SL
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Crash
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
John:
I have found a lot of information here:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp
A search on "601" gives eighteen crashes since 1995 (I searched from
1980). There are only a few listed as "fatal." Only three of these were
of the "XL" variety. Substituting "RV" in place of 601 gives 32 pages
of accidents. Perhaps not a fair comparison, but interesting.
Select Category "Airplane" and Homebuilt "Yes" and Make/Model "601"
Good questions and welcome aboard.
Scott Laughlin
601XL / Corvair
www.cooknwithgas.com
Working on Wires and FWF Stuff.
John Hines <John.Hines@craftontull.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines"
I just joined this list on Friday. I am strongly considering purchasing
a 601 XL kit. Where can I find a complete safety record / accident
history for the 601 series?
John Hines
---------------------------------
Message 11
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| Subject: | Funeral Arrangements for Jeff Glasserow |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax@hotmail.com>
Jeff Glasserow's funeral will be tomorrow at 10:30 a.m. at Holcombe-Fisher
funeral home in Flemington, New Jersey:
http://www.holcombefisher.com/
Jeff's obituary is here:
http://www.holcombefisher.com/obits/obit.cfm?obitid=491
They have online condolances if you are interested.
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
Message 12
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| Subject: | Folding bike for the Zenith 601HDS |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "P.H. Raker" <n556p@yahoo.com>
Hey, Chuck,
That sounds pretty good. I don't know how you managed to get it
in there. I looked at several types of folders, and very few of them
would fit very well. I had a special problem, because I need to fit 2
bikes in there so I have wheels for my flying partner too.
What I finally found that fits quite well with a bit of room left
over is a bike called a Brompton. It has only 16" wheels but rides
very well on almost all surfaces. Many folders have frames that flex a
lot as one pedals; this one is really solid. It has rear suspension,
folds/unfolds in only about 15 seconds. Yes, you read that correctly.
Pull it out of the baggage compartment and in about 15 seconds it'll be
completely ready to ride. Nothing need be removed and reinstalled.
The bike's made in England (the "mecca" of folding bikes). It's a bit
expensive but I couldn't find any other that rides nearly as well that
can fit 2 of them in a CH-601.
Info on them and ordering info can be seen at www.foldabikes.com
or www.bromptonbikes.co.uk
Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed
--> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com
> It was a little risky ordering it because it has full size 26"
> wheels. I calculated it would fit in the plane, but you know how it
> is with complicated shapes - never know for sure until you try. The
> good news was that although a snug fit, I was able to fit it nicely
> into the baggage compartment after removing the seat, handle bars,
> and front wheel. A couple bungie cords and I was ready to go!
__________________________________
Message 13
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
Good day everyone. A few weeks ago, while surfing on the net abnout CH 701,
I came across a site with a very detailed plan for a work table.
Unfortunatly I had a bad computer crash and I lost the link to that site.
It also has a lot of commentary pertaining to the eight of the table (33
inches if I recall) and so on. I know there is one on CH701 but not as
complete as the one I'm searching for.
Is there a good soul on this site that could help me.
Jean-Paul Roy
soon to be a 701 builder
Do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | RE: Zenith- 601 crash NY Times article |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Condon, Philip M." <pcondon@mitre.org>
Two small aircraft clipped each other in midair yesterday in the sunny,
nearly windless skies over western New Jersey, causing one plane to
drop nose first into a field of trees, killing the pilot, the state
police said.
The other pilot landed safely, and there were no other reported
casualties.
The police identified the dead pilot as Jeffrey L. Glasserow, 55, of
Pittstown, N.J.
The other pilot is James P. Walter, 56, of Kintersville, Pa..
Sgt. Stephen Jones said a telephone call to 911 at 11:40 a.m. reported
that an aircraft was in trouble near the township of Pohatcong, near
Phillipsburg, more than 50 miles northwest of Trenton.
A police helicopter located the crash site, on a 90-acre farm near
Interstate 78 and about three miles from the Delaware River. .
"We have not disturbed the crash site," Sergeant Jones said, because
the police were awaiting investigators from the state's Division of
Aeronautics.
The crashed plane was a crumpled, unrecognizable piece of white metal.
The pilot did not appear to have attempted a landing and simply dropped
through the treetops, Sergeant Jones said.
Ron Harbist, an investigator at the scene from the Aeronautics
Division, said later that the pilot was "probably out of control when
he hit; he came in at a steep angle."
He said the plane, a Zodiac 601 built from a kit, is registered with
the Federal Aviation Administration and is listed as "experimental."
Arlene Murray, a spokeswoman for the Eastern Region office of the
F.A.A., said the two planes were flying under "visual flight rules" and
were not communicating with air traffic controllers.
"They clipped each other somehow, is what I understand," she said.
It was not clear whether they were flying past each other or parallel
in the same direction.
Ms. Murray said the crashed plane was owned by All-Media Associates
Inc. of Port Washington, on Long Island. A telephone number could not
be found for the company.
The intact plane, a Cessna 172 single engine, was minimally damaged,
Ms. Murray said, and is owned by Sportaviation Inc. of Pipersville, Pa.
Ashar Husain, the owner of Sport Aviation, a flight school in Erwinna,
Pa., in Bucks County, where the plane had taken off, said the surviving
pilot was an experienced flier and regular customer who rented planes.
Nate Schweber contributed reporting for this report.
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody@cox.net>
I checked out the list of 601s that had crash reports and found that several were
brought on by engine failure. I was very interested in learning what engines
were being used on the airplanes that went down due to engine failure. Any idea
how one would go about finding that information?
Ed
>
> From: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
> Date: 2005/11/07 Mon AM 10:48:02 EST
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Crash
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
>
> John:
>
> I have found a lot of information here:
>
> http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp
>
> A search on "601" gives eighteen crashes since 1995 (I searched from 1980). There
are only a few listed as "fatal." Only three of these were of the "XL" variety.
Substituting "RV" in place of 601 gives 32 pages of accidents. Perhaps
not a fair comparison, but interesting.
>
> Select Category "Airplane" and Homebuilt "Yes" and Make/Model "601"
>
> Good questions and welcome aboard.
>
> Scott Laughlin
> 601XL / Corvair
> www.cooknwithgas.com
> Working on Wires and FWF Stuff.
>
> John Hines <John.Hines@craftontull.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines"
>
> I just joined this list on Friday. I am strongly considering purchasing
> a 601 XL kit. Where can I find a complete safety record / accident
> history for the 601 series?
>
> John Hines
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Jean-Paul
My site is probably not the one you are looking for, but I do have a small
worktable page on my site. You may find a couple of interesting photos.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds/Worktable.htm
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Paul Roy
Subject: Zenith-List: Table plans
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy"
<jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
Good day everyone. A few weeks ago, while surfing on the net abnout CH 701,
I came across a site with a very detailed plan for a work table.
Unfortunatly I had a bad computer crash and I lost the link to that site.
It also has a lot of commentary pertaining to the eight of the table (33
inches if I recall) and so on. I know there is one on CH701 but not as
complete as the one I'm searching for.
Is there a good soul on this site that could help me.
Jean-Paul Roy
soon to be a 701 builder
Do not archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Parachutes kill. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: BATAR@aol.com
Steve:
Sorry to hear you had a stroke. Best wishes for a speedy recovery.
Al (F-4 gunner) Massey
Message 18
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Ed,
I don't know how to find the information you wanted.
I do want to relate a conversation I had with a very experienced
aviation expert on the subject. When I told him I found a lot of
experimental plane accidents related to engine failures, his response
was the same thing happens with certified planes too. This may just
be part of the landscape when it comes to flight safety.
Perhaps this doesn't get as much "Press" as other types of accidents
because the fatality rate for engine failures is relatively low.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
At 12:09 PM 11/7/2005, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody@cox.net>
>
>I checked out the list of 601s that had crash reports and found that
>several were brought on by engine failure. I was very interested in
>learning what engines were being used on the airplanes that went
>down due to engine failure. Any idea how one would go about finding
>that information?
>
>Ed
> >
> > From: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
> > Date: 2005/11/07 Mon AM 10:48:02 EST
> > To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Crash
> >
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
> >
> > John:
> >
> > I have found a lot of information here:
> >
> > http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp
> >
> > A search on "601" gives eighteen crashes since 1995 (I searched
> from 1980). There are only a few listed as "fatal." Only three of
> these were of the "XL" variety. Substituting "RV" in place of 601
> gives 32 pages of accidents. Perhaps not a fair comparison, but interesting.
> >
> > Select Category "Airplane" and Homebuilt "Yes" and Make/Model "601"
> >
> > Good questions and welcome aboard.
> >
> > Scott Laughlin
> > 601XL / Corvair
> > www.cooknwithgas.com
> > Working on Wires and FWF Stuff.
> >
> > John Hines <John.Hines@craftontull.com> wrote:
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines"
> >
> > I just joined this list on Friday. I am strongly considering purchasing
> > a 601 XL kit. Where can I find a complete safety record / accident
> > history for the 601 series?
> >
> > John Hines
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 19
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Jean-Paul it was probably our website at www.ch701.com . As always, we
will try to help you in any way possible.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Paul
Roy
Subject: Zenith-List: Table plans
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy"
<jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
Good day everyone. A few weeks ago, while surfing on the net abnout CH
701,
I came across a site with a very detailed plan for a work table.
Unfortunatly I had a bad computer crash and I lost the link to that
site.
It also has a lot of commentary pertaining to the eight of the table (33
inches if I recall) and so on. I know there is one on CH701 but not as
complete as the one I'm searching for.
Is there a good soul on this site that could help me.
Jean-Paul Roy
soon to be a 701 builder
Do not archive
--
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
11/5/2005
--
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
11/5/2005
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Failures |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jim" <jim@pellien.com>
The mentioned NTSB Database has the engine information.
Of the 7 engine failures between 2000-2005, 3 were Rotax 912 engines and 4 were
Suburu EA-81 engines. However this is not enough information to say which engine
is more reliable and therefore safer.
How many 601's have Rotax engines and how many have Suburu's is the next thing
we need to really better understand which engine is less reliable than the other.
I would guess that there are more Rotax-configured 601's than Suburu-configured
601's. What about all the other engines people put into 601's over the years?
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
jim@sportsplanes.com
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
>Hi Ed,
>
>I don't know how to find the information you wanted.
>
>I do want to relate a conversation I had with a very experienced
>aviation expert on the subject. When I told him I found a lot of
>experimental plane accidents related to engine failures, his response
>was the same thing happens with certified planes too. This may just
>be part of the landscape when it comes to flight safety.
>
>Perhaps this doesn't get as much "Press" as other types of accidents
>because the fatality rate for engine failures is relatively low.
>
>Paul
>XL wings
>do not archive
>
>At 12:09 PM 11/7/2005, you wrote:
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody@cox.net>
>>
>>I checked out the list of 601s that had crash reports and found that
>>several were brought on by engine failure. I was very interested in
>>learning what engines were being used on the airplanes that went
>>down due to engine failure. Any idea how one would go about finding
>>that information?
>>
>>Ed
>> >
>> > From: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
>> > Date: 2005/11/07 Mon AM 10:48:02 EST
>> > To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>> > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Crash
>> >
>> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
>> >
>> > John:
>> >
>> > I have found a lot of information here:
>> >
>> > http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp
>> >
>> > A search on "601" gives eighteen crashes since 1995 (I searched
>> from 1980). There are only a few listed as "fatal." Only three of
>> these were of the "XL" variety. Substituting "RV" in place of 601
>> gives 32 pages of accidents. Perhaps not a fair comparison, but interesting.
>> >
>> > Select Category "Airplane" and Homebuilt "Yes" and Make/Model "601"
>> >
>> > Good questions and welcome aboard.
>> >
>> > Scott Laughlin
>> > 601XL / Corvair
>> > www.cooknwithgas.com
>> > Working on Wires and FWF Stuff.
>> >
>> > John Hines <John.Hines@craftontull.com> wrote:
>> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines"
>> >
>> > I just joined this list on Friday. I am strongly considering purchasing
>> > a 601 XL kit. Where can I find a complete safety record / accident
>> > history for the 601 series?
>> >
>> > John Hines
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>---------------------------------------------
>Paul Mulwitz
>32013 NE Dial Road
>Camas, WA 98607
>---------------------------------------------
>
>
Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT
Message 21
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| Subject: | 701 Babbage Area Ideas |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
Are there any useful ideas for building into the baggage area, things that
have worked out well, or things that you wish were there now?
My 701 is at the stage where features can be added easily. So far just a few
hard points for straps.
Mine is the large baggage area, open front, is there a good way to close it
up?
Jerry, CH 701 SP about 85%
Message 22
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
In a message dated 11/7/2005 2:12:47 PM Central Standard Time,
dredmoody@cox.net writes:
Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody@cox.net>
I checked out the list of 601s that had crash reports and found that several
were brought on by engine failure. I was very interested in learning what
engines were being used on the airplanes that went down due to engine failure.
Any
idea how one would go about finding that information?
Ed
Wonder if Transport Canada has such info? Do they monitor the Zenith aircraft
sold to the public there?
Message 23
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I can tell you for a while that a Subaru engine raised eyebrows at the
insurance companies due to as they said it "unexplained engine failures"
Now whether this was due to the fact there were a lot of them or that
they were just "Unexplained" is hard to tell.
Annecdotally it seems that since Ram Performance has been replacing
valve guides in Subaru cylinder heads I have no problem in getting
insurance!
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine Failures
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jim" <jim@pellien.com>
The mentioned NTSB Database has the engine information.
Of the 7 engine failures between 2000-2005, 3 were Rotax 912 engines and
4 were Suburu EA-81 engines. However this is not enough information to
say which engine is more reliable and therefore safer.
How many 601's have Rotax engines and how many have Suburu's is the next
thing we need to really better understand which engine is less reliable
than the other.
I would guess that there are more Rotax-configured 601's than
Suburu-configured 601's. What about all the other engines people put
into 601's over the years?
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
jim@sportsplanes.com
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
>--> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
>Hi Ed,
>
>I don't know how to find the information you wanted.
>
>I do want to relate a conversation I had with a very experienced
>aviation expert on the subject. When I told him I found a lot of
>experimental plane accidents related to engine failures, his response
>was the same thing happens with certified planes too. This may just be
>part of the landscape when it comes to flight safety.
>
>Perhaps this doesn't get as much "Press" as other types of accidents
>because the fatality rate for engine failures is relatively low.
>
>Paul
>XL wings
>do not archive
>
>At 12:09 PM 11/7/2005, you wrote:
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody@cox.net>
>>
>>I checked out the list of 601s that had crash reports and found that
>>several were brought on by engine failure. I was very interested in
>>learning what engines were being used on the airplanes that went down
>>due to engine failure. Any idea how one would go about finding that
>>information?
>>
>>Ed
>> >
>> > From: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
>> > Date: 2005/11/07 Mon AM 10:48:02 EST
>> > To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>> > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Crash
>> >
>> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
>> >
>> > John:
>> >
>> > I have found a lot of information here:
>> >
>> > http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp
>> >
>> > A search on "601" gives eighteen crashes since 1995 (I searched
>> from 1980). There are only a few listed as "fatal." Only three of
>> these were of the "XL" variety. Substituting "RV" in place of 601
>> gives 32 pages of accidents. Perhaps not a fair comparison, but
interesting.
>> >
>> > Select Category "Airplane" and Homebuilt "Yes" and Make/Model "601"
>> >
>> > Good questions and welcome aboard.
>> >
>> > Scott Laughlin
>> > 601XL / Corvair
>> > www.cooknwithgas.com
>> > Working on Wires and FWF Stuff.
>> >
>> > John Hines <John.Hines@craftontull.com> wrote:
>> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines"
>> >
>> > I just joined this list on Friday. I am strongly considering
>> > purchasing a 601 XL kit. Where can I find a complete safety record
>> > / accident history for the 601 series?
>> >
>> > John Hines
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>---------------------------------------------
>Paul Mulwitz
>32013 NE Dial Road
>Camas, WA 98607
>---------------------------------------------
>
>
Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Failures |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fortunato <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
> How many 601's have Rotax engines and how many have
> Suburu's is the next thing we need to really better
> understand which engine is less reliable than the
> other.
IMO, I'm not sure anything productive could be gained
by such an analysis, unless more details on what
constituted an "engine failure" could be made
available. Was it the fuel system? Electrical? Or an
intergral engine component? The data would have to be
far more detailed in order to make any kind of useful
conclusions.
Mike Fortunato
do not archive
__________________________________
Message 25
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kobo1" <kobo1@cyberbeach.net>
Also remember that most engine failures are fuel failures of one sort or
another. This is mostly caused by installation errors, venting problems,
or just low fuel. You can't blame an engine for failing because of this.
I really think that engines don't stop by themselves. Can't remember the
last time an engine broke or seized.
MAK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde,
Frank George (Corvallis)
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Engine Failures
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
--> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I can tell you for a while that a Subaru engine raised eyebrows at the
insurance companies due to as they said it "unexplained engine failures"
Now whether this was due to the fact there were a lot of them or that
they were just "Unexplained" is hard to tell.
Annecdotally it seems that since Ram Performance has been replacing
valve guides in Subaru cylinder heads I have no problem in getting
insurance!
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine Failures
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jim" <jim@pellien.com>
The mentioned NTSB Database has the engine information.
Of the 7 engine failures between 2000-2005, 3 were Rotax 912 engines and
4 were Suburu EA-81 engines. However this is not enough information to
say which engine is more reliable and therefore safer.
How many 601's have Rotax engines and how many have Suburu's is the next
thing we need to really better understand which engine is less reliable
than the other.
I would guess that there are more Rotax-configured 601's than
Suburu-configured 601's. What about all the other engines people put
into 601's over the years?
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
jim@sportsplanes.com
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
>--> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
>Hi Ed,
>
>I don't know how to find the information you wanted.
>
>I do want to relate a conversation I had with a very experienced
>aviation expert on the subject. When I told him I found a lot of
>experimental plane accidents related to engine failures, his response
>was the same thing happens with certified planes too. This may just be
>part of the landscape when it comes to flight safety.
>
>Perhaps this doesn't get as much "Press" as other types of accidents
>because the fatality rate for engine failures is relatively low.
>
>Paul
>XL wings
>do not archive
>
>At 12:09 PM 11/7/2005, you wrote:
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody@cox.net>
>>
>>I checked out the list of 601s that had crash reports and found that
>>several were brought on by engine failure. I was very interested in
>>learning what engines were being used on the airplanes that went down
>>due to engine failure. Any idea how one would go about finding that
>>information?
>>
>>Ed
>> >
>> > From: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
>> > Date: 2005/11/07 Mon AM 10:48:02 EST
>> > To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>> > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Crash
>> >
>> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
>> >
>> > John:
>> >
>> > I have found a lot of information here:
>> >
>> > http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp
>> >
>> > A search on "601" gives eighteen crashes since 1995 (I searched
>> from 1980). There are only a few listed as "fatal." Only three of
>> these were of the "XL" variety. Substituting "RV" in place of 601
>> gives 32 pages of accidents. Perhaps not a fair comparison, but
interesting.
>> >
>> > Select Category "Airplane" and Homebuilt "Yes" and Make/Model "601"
>> >
>> > Good questions and welcome aboard.
>> >
>> > Scott Laughlin
>> > 601XL / Corvair
>> > www.cooknwithgas.com
>> > Working on Wires and FWF Stuff.
>> >
>> > John Hines <John.Hines@craftontull.com> wrote:
>> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines"
>> >
>> > I just joined this list on Friday. I am strongly considering
>> > purchasing a 601 XL kit. Where can I find a complete safety record
>> > / accident history for the 601 series?
>> >
>> > John Hines
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>---------------------------------------------
>Paul Mulwitz
>32013 NE Dial Road
>Camas, WA 98607
>---------------------------------------------
>
>
Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Engine Failures |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: doug kandle <d_kandle@velocitus.net>
I did a rather unscientific survey on the NTSB web site. I went back
and searched for accidents in my certificated airplane (a Cessna 206)
and the plane I am building (CH701). I found 14 accidents in the 701
and for the period of time I chose for the 206 I got 25 hits.
Here is how the engine related numbers go:
C-206: 4 out of 25 or 16% engine related
CH-701: 8 out of 14 or 57%
This difference is significant. Some of the difference could be from
reporting differences. I know here where I live, when people crack
up their planes in the desert they just get a friend to bring out a
trailer and haul it back to the airport. The FAA probably only hears
about a small percentage of the accidents in a 701 type plane unless
there are serious injuries. I'm using a Jabiru in my 701 because it
seems to me to be the closest to the types of engines I am used to
and have found reliable.
I think it is clear that the "average" engine installed in these
planes is not as reliable as the engine in the certified plane. I
hope that the Jabiru is closer to a Continental than whatever the
planes that ended up in the NTSB reports used.
By the way, there were no fatalities in any of the accidents, which
does say something for the airframe and the speed at which they "landed".
At 02:53 PM 11/7/2005, you wrote:
> When I told him I found a lot of
> >experimental plane accidents related to engine failures, his response
> >was the same thing happens with certified planes too.
Do NOT ARCHIVE
Message 27
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Can't remember the last time an engine broke or seized.
You can't, but I and a lot of Stratus owners can!
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kobo1
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Engine Failures
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kobo1" <kobo1@cyberbeach.net>
Also remember that most engine failures are fuel failures of one sort or
another. This is mostly caused by installation errors, venting problems,
or just low fuel. You can't blame an engine for failing because of this.
I really think that engines don't stop by themselves. Can't remember the
last time an engine broke or seized.
MAK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde,
Frank George (Corvallis)
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Engine Failures
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
--> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I can tell you for a while that a Subaru engine raised eyebrows at the
insurance companies due to as they said it "unexplained engine failures"
Now whether this was due to the fact there were a lot of them or that
they were just "Unexplained" is hard to tell.
Annecdotally it seems that since Ram Performance has been replacing
valve guides in Subaru cylinder heads I have no problem in getting
insurance!
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine Failures
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jim" <jim@pellien.com>
The mentioned NTSB Database has the engine information.
Of the 7 engine failures between 2000-2005, 3 were Rotax 912 engines and
4 were Suburu EA-81 engines. However this is not enough information to
say which engine is more reliable and therefore safer.
How many 601's have Rotax engines and how many have Suburu's is the next
thing we need to really better understand which engine is less reliable
than the other.
I would guess that there are more Rotax-configured 601's than
Suburu-configured 601's. What about all the other engines people put
into 601's over the years?
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
jim@sportsplanes.com
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
>--> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
>Hi Ed,
>
>I don't know how to find the information you wanted.
>
>I do want to relate a conversation I had with a very experienced
>aviation expert on the subject. When I told him I found a lot of
>experimental plane accidents related to engine failures, his response
>was the same thing happens with certified planes too. This may just be
>part of the landscape when it comes to flight safety.
>
>Perhaps this doesn't get as much "Press" as other types of accidents
>because the fatality rate for engine failures is relatively low.
>
>Paul
>XL wings
>do not archive
>
>At 12:09 PM 11/7/2005, you wrote:
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody@cox.net>
>>
>>I checked out the list of 601s that had crash reports and found that
>>several were brought on by engine failure. I was very interested in
>>learning what engines were being used on the airplanes that went down
>>due to engine failure. Any idea how one would go about finding that
>>information?
>>
>>Ed
>> >
>> > From: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
>> > Date: 2005/11/07 Mon AM 10:48:02 EST
>> > To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>> > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Crash
>> >
>> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
>> >
>> > John:
>> >
>> > I have found a lot of information here:
>> >
>> > http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp
>> >
>> > A search on "601" gives eighteen crashes since 1995 (I searched
>> from 1980). There are only a few listed as "fatal." Only three of
>> these were of the "XL" variety. Substituting "RV" in place of 601
>> gives 32 pages of accidents. Perhaps not a fair comparison, but
interesting.
>> >
>> > Select Category "Airplane" and Homebuilt "Yes" and Make/Model "601"
>> >
>> > Good questions and welcome aboard.
>> >
>> > Scott Laughlin
>> > 601XL / Corvair
>> > www.cooknwithgas.com
>> > Working on Wires and FWF Stuff.
>> >
>> > John Hines <John.Hines@craftontull.com> wrote:
>> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines"
>> >
>> > I just joined this list on Friday. I am strongly considering
>> > purchasing a 601 XL kit. Where can I find a complete safety record
>> > / accident history for the 601 series?
>> >
>> > John Hines
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>---------------------------------------------
>Paul Mulwitz
>32013 NE Dial Road
>Camas, WA 98607
>---------------------------------------------
>
>
Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Failures |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jim" <jim@pellien.com>
Mike,
Fully agree. It would be a complex analytical test, even if the data was available,
which it isn't.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
jim@sportsplanes.com
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Mike Fortunato <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fortunato <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
>
>
>> How many 601's have Rotax engines and how many have
>> Suburu's is the next thing we need to really better
>> understand which engine is less reliable than the
>> other.
>
>IMO, I'm not sure anything productive could be gained
>by such an analysis, unless more details on what
>constituted an "engine failure" could be made
>available. Was it the fuel system? Electrical? Or an
>intergral engine component? The data would have to be
>far more detailed in order to make any kind of useful
>conclusions.
>
>Mike Fortunato
>
>do not archive
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>
>
Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT
Message 29
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| Subject: | safety - RVs vs Zodiac XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Kevin Thorp <kevin@medamation.com>
One thing I noticed about the RV accident data: So far no RV-9s have had
a fatal accident. Could be because it's a new design. Or because it's
stall speed is relatively low compared to the rest of the RV line (but
not as low as the Zodiac).
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>I think it is a fair comparison in a way...As RVs are by far the most
>prolific experimental out there. There is also the "performance"
>factor....I.e do higher performance aircraft have more accidents and are
>those more serious than lower performance A/C?
>
>It is likely that RV's do more cross country work than 601's. As an
>annecdote, the Arlington fly in usually has two to three 601's on a good
>weather year...I stopped couning RV's at over 50 of them on the same
>year. So either way you'll see more RV's in one place at any one time,
>so either there are a lot more of them (true) and I bet they are willing
>to travel further.
>
>A lot more RV's are IFR equipped too so that may also have a bearing on
>the number of accidents.
>
>Bottom line, I just hope none of us become a statistic.
>
>Frank 601HDS 383 hours
>RV7A project
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N5SL
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Crash
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
>
>John:
>
>I have found a lot of information here:
>
>http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp
>
>A search on "601" gives eighteen crashes since 1995 (I searched from
>1980). There are only a few listed as "fatal." Only three of these were
>of the "XL" variety. Substituting "RV" in place of 601 gives 32 pages
>of accidents. Perhaps not a fair comparison, but interesting.
>
>Select Category "Airplane" and Homebuilt "Yes" and Make/Model "601"
>
>Good questions and welcome aboard.
>
>Scott Laughlin
>601XL / Corvair
>www.cooknwithgas.com
>Working on Wires and FWF Stuff.
>
>John Hines <John.Hines@craftontull.com> wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines"
>
>I just joined this list on Friday. I am strongly considering purchasing
>a 601 XL kit. Where can I find a complete safety record / accident
>history for the 601 series?
>
>John Hines
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
Message 30
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Ed,
If you use the name of the pilot listed with the aircraft name, and
search that in the Zenith archives, you'll probably unravel engine types
from their postings.
I recognize some of the names as being participant to the pages at one
time or another.
Larry McFarland
do not archive
dredmoody@cox.net wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody@cox.net>
>
>I checked out the list of 601s that had crash reports and found that several were
brought on by engine failure. I was very interested in learning what engines
were being used on the airplanes that went down due to engine failure. Any
idea how one would go about finding that information?
>
>Ed
>
>
>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Failures |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Mike,
It'd be beneficial to know why one might be a significant choice before
the purchase..........
Subaru engines must suffer the greatest number of failures because
people who install them find they
need to know a lot more about engines than the Rotax people. The Subaru
requires that builders decide cooling issues,
correct selection of fuel jets, ignition selection and installation of
dual ignition that can include rebuild of a distributor,
selection of a radiator and placement and a whole host of detail that
the Rotax buyer doesn't usually get into.
Then the supplier of one brand of Subaru complicates issues with a
compromised valve guide installation
that has caused several good aircraft to make unplanned landings.
Another supplier had to be used to fix it.
These raise the bar for the builder such that I'm surprised we've not
had more incidents with the Subaru.
The Subaru turns out to be a great engine if a person is persistent in
making the installation a safe one.
I've not had problems since the learning curve flattened, but engines
are a matter of choice.
If do-overs were available, I'd still go with my Subaru cause I like the
water cooled engine.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS with Stratus Subaru
at www.macsmachine.com
Do not archive
Mike Fortunato wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fortunato <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
>
>
>
>
>>How many 601's have Rotax engines and how many have
>>Suburu's is the next thing we need to really better
>>understand which engine is less reliable than the
>>other.
>>
>>
>
>IMO, I'm not sure anything productive could be gained
>by such an analysis, unless more details on what
>constituted an "engine failure" could be made
>available. Was it the fuel system? Electrical? Or an
>intergral engine component? The data would have to be
>far more detailed in order to make any kind of useful
>conclusions.
>
>Mike Fortunato
>
>do not archive
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: safety - RVs vs Zodiac XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Daniel Vandenberg <djvdb63@yahoo.com>
> One thing I noticed about the RV accident data: So
> far no RV-9s have had
> a fatal accident.
Kevin...
This is not true...see below link. Note that the
first RV-9A (the yellow aircraft as seen here):
http://www.pfabristol.flyer.co.uk/pics/RV9A.jpg
was registered as an "RV-6T" with the FAA:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X20806&key=1
DJV
__________________________________
http://farechase.yahoo.com
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Failures |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "gary" <garyk2@cox.net>
Frank,
Please don't speak for "us". There have been very few failures with
Stratus subaru's and most of the engines are high-time and trouble free.
There were a few ignition failures and valve guide failures. The ignition
failures were corrected with dual electronic ignition and RAM has a good
valve guide fix. I am very happy with mine without even considering that
it's half the price of a Rotax or Jabiru. There were probably as many
failures with the first 150 Rotax's or Jabirus, and they had to make changes
too. I think Reiner did a great job as a one-man coversion development
company and Mykal is a one-man part-time production company continuing the
oldest and most well-proven subaru conversion there is. I know you can't
name a better engine for that kind of money because there isn't anything
else available in that price range, much less with as many high-time trouble
free engines out there as Stratus. One guy that continuously screams bad
press can ruin a good, affordable engine option for those of us without your
"RV budget".
Gary Krysztopik
Pelican PL - N522GK
Stratus Subaru EA-81, 120 hrs
Newport, RI
http://www.prism.net/user/flyink/index.html
> Can't remember the last time an engine broke or seized.
>
>
> You can't, but I and a lot of Stratus owners can!
>
> Frank
>
> Do not archive
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Failures |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Steve Hulland <marinegunner@gmail.com>
Wonder how many 582's have failed?
Do not achive.
S. Hulland
701
Amado AZ
On 11/7/05, gary <garyk2@cox.net> wrote:
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "gary" <garyk2@cox.net>
>
> Frank,
> Please don't speak for "us". There have been very few failures with
> Stratus subaru's and most of the engines are high-time and trouble free.
> There were a few ignition failures and valve guide failures. The ignition
> failures were corrected with dual electronic ignition and RAM has a good
> valve guide fix. I am very happy with mine without even considering that
> it's half the price of a Rotax or Jabiru. There were probably as many
> failures with the first 150 Rotax's or Jabirus, and they had to make
> changes
> too. I think Reiner did a great job as a one-man coversion development
> company and Mykal is a one-man part-time production company continuing the
> oldest and most well-proven subaru conversion there is. I know you can't
> name a better engine for that kind of money because there isn't anything
> else available in that price range, much less with as many high-time
> trouble
> free engines out there as Stratus. One guy that continuously screams bad
> press can ruin a good, affordable engine option for those of us without
> your
> "RV budget".
>
> Gary Krysztopik
> Pelican PL - N522GK
> Stratus Subaru EA-81, 120 hrs
> Newport, RI
> http://www.prism.net/user/flyink/index.html
>
>
> > Can't remember the last time an engine broke or seized.
> >
> >
> > You can't, but I and a lot of Stratus owners can!
> >
> > Frank
> >
> > Do not archive
>
>
> ,
>
>
Message 35
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Your right Gary that statement was unqualified on my behalf and it
should have been with some actual data.
There were about 6 incidences of valve guide failures that I can
remember...I think it is higher than that but 6 that I can point to from
memory.
I actually spent more on my Stratus than I would have on a Rotax and I
was fourtunate to make it back to the airport each time it happened.
I actually think the Stratus is a pretty good redrive but the valve
guide work was farmed out to a shop that included a poor quality work to
keep the valve guides in. Now once again, if you don't believe
locktiting a guide into the head is a bad thing the that is purely my
opinion. If yours are held in place and you are happy with that setup
that is none of my business.
In the end its kind of a moot point. The Stratus with Ram heads and
modified ignitions has proven to be a very reliable set up.
But you are right Gary I should not speak for "us"
Regards
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine Failures
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "gary" <garyk2@cox.net>
Frank,
Please don't speak for "us". There have been very few failures with
Stratus subaru's and most of the engines are high-time and trouble free.
There were a few ignition failures and valve guide failures. The
ignition failures were corrected with dual electronic ignition and RAM
has a good valve guide fix. I am very happy with mine without even
considering that it's half the price of a Rotax or Jabiru. There were
probably as many failures with the first 150 Rotax's or Jabirus, and
they had to make changes too. I think Reiner did a great job as a
one-man coversion development company and Mykal is a one-man part-time
production company continuing the oldest and most well-proven subaru
conversion there is. I know you can't name a better engine for that
kind of money because there isn't anything else available in that price
range, much less with as many high-time trouble free engines out there
as Stratus. One guy that continuously screams bad press can ruin a
good, affordable engine option for those of us without your "RV budget".
Gary Krysztopik
Pelican PL - N522GK
Stratus Subaru EA-81, 120 hrs
Newport, RI
http://www.prism.net/user/flyink/index.html
> Can't remember the last time an engine broke or seized.
>
>
> You can't, but I and a lot of Stratus owners can!
>
> Frank
>
> Do not archive
Message 36
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
No Kevin it's not the one but it shows really well how it's done. Looks as
solid as rock. Thanks for posting.
Jean-Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Table plans
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
>
> Jean-Paul
>
> My site is probably not the one you are looking for, but I do have a small
> worktable page on my site. You may find a couple of interesting photos.
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds/Worktable.htm
>
>
> Kevin Bonds
>
> Nashville TN
>
> 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
>
> Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
>
>
> do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Paul Roy
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Table plans
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy"
> <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
>
> Good day everyone. A few weeks ago, while surfing on the net abnout CH
701,
> I came across a site with a very detailed plan for a work table.
> Unfortunatly I had a bad computer crash and I lost the link to that site.
> It also has a lot of commentary pertaining to the eight of the table (33
> inches if I recall) and so on. I know there is one on CH701 but not as
> complete as the one I'm searching for.
> Is there a good soul on this site that could help me.
>
> Jean-Paul Roy
> soon to be a 701 builder
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 37
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
Not quite this one Mark but thanks anyway. I'll be in touch soon.
Jean-Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Table plans
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
>
> Jean-Paul it was probably our website at www.ch701.com . As always, we
> will try to help you in any way possible.
>
> Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
> Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
> www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Paul
> Roy
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Table plans
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy"
> <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
>
> Good day everyone. A few weeks ago, while surfing on the net abnout CH
> 701,
> I came across a site with a very detailed plan for a work table.
> Unfortunatly I had a bad computer crash and I lost the link to that
> site.
> It also has a lot of commentary pertaining to the eight of the table (33
> inches if I recall) and so on. I know there is one on CH701 but not as
> complete as the one I'm searching for.
> Is there a good soul on this site that could help me.
>
> Jean-Paul Roy
> soon to be a 701 builder
> Do not archive
>
>
> --
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> 11/5/2005
>
>
> --
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> 11/5/2005
>
>
>
>
>
>
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