---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 11/08/05: 80 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:55 AM - Re: Table plans (Kevin Thorp) 2. 03:57 AM - Re: Engine Failures (Frank Roskind) 3. 05:46 AM - Re: Table plans (Jean-Paul Roy) 4. 06:18 AM - Hinge Rubbing? (Michael Valentine) 5. 06:31 AM - Re: 701 Babbage Area Ideas (Larry) 6. 07:58 AM - Safety / Wives??? (John Hines) 7. 08:43 AM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (Randy L. Thwing) 8. 08:44 AM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (Randy L. Thwing) 9. 08:45 AM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (Randy L. Thwing) 10. 08:46 AM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (Randy L. Thwing) 11. 08:46 AM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (Randy L. Thwing) 12. 08:46 AM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (Randy L. Thwing) 13. 08:47 AM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (Randy L. Thwing) 14. 08:50 AM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (Al Young) 15. 08:50 AM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (Randy L. Thwing) 16. 08:52 AM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (Randy L. Thwing) 17. 08:53 AM - Re: 701 Babbage Area Ideas (Dabusmith@aol.com) 18. 08:55 AM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (Randy L. Thwing) 19. 08:55 AM - Re: Engine Failures, Cause of accidents? (Gary Gower) 20. 08:59 AM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 21. 08:59 AM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (Carlos Sa) 22. 09:04 AM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (William Dominguez) 23. 09:05 AM - Re: 701 Babbage Area Ideas (NYTerminat@aol.com) 24. 09:08 AM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 25. 09:09 AM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (N5SL) 26. 09:20 AM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (doug kandle) 27. 09:21 AM - Apology for inconvenience (Randy L. Thwing) 28. 09:24 AM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (Clyde Barcus) 29. 09:32 AM - Re: Apology for inconvenience (John Hines) 30. 09:58 AM - Re: Apology for inconvenience (Keith Ashcraft) 31. 10:15 AM - Corvair (John Hines) 32. 10:18 AM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 33. 10:46 AM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (Paul Mulwitz) 34. 11:11 AM - Re: Table plans (kevinbonds) 35. 11:19 AM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (kevinbonds) 36. 11:19 AM - Re: Corvair (Craig Payne) 37. 11:20 AM - Re: Corvair (William Dominguez) 38. 11:34 AM - Re: Corvair (Daniel Vandenberg) 39. 11:50 AM - Re: Corvair (Randy Stout) 40. 12:11 PM - Re: Corvair (Randy Culp) 41. 12:26 PM - Re: Re: Safety / Wives??? () 42. 12:28 PM - Re: Re: Safety / Wives??? () 43. 12:40 PM - Re: Corvair (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 44. 12:46 PM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (Thomas Boehmer) 45. 12:53 PM - Re: Re: Safety / Wives??? () 46. 12:54 PM - Re: Re: Safety / Wives??? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 47. 12:56 PM - 701 Firewall Drwg 7-F-7 (Tommy Walker) 48. 01:00 PM - Re: Re: Safety / Wives??? () 49. 01:14 PM - Fuel Sender CH701 (doug kandle) 50. 01:16 PM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 51. 01:18 PM - Re: Re: Safety / Wives??? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 52. 01:33 PM - Re: Re: Safety / Wives??? (Eddie Seve) 53. 01:39 PM - Re: Wives??? Sorry Guys I'm too dam Lucky! (Zodie Rocket) 54. 02:00 PM - Re: Re: Safety/Wives??? (Tommy Walker) 55. 02:12 PM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (Randy L. Thwing) 56. 02:18 PM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (Randy L. Thwing) 57. 02:18 PM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (Randy L. Thwing) 58. 02:25 PM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (Beckman, Rick) 59. 03:21 PM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (William J. Naumuk) 60. 03:38 PM - Static Ports for 701 (ray.stlaurent@vsea.com) 61. 03:40 PM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (Gary A. Boothe) 62. 03:45 PM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (Larry McFarland) 63. 03:51 PM - Re: Re: Safety / Wives??? (William J. Naumuk) 64. 03:59 PM - Re: Corvair (Larry McFarland) 65. 04:30 PM - kit (Rodney Mills) 66. 04:53 PM - Re: Re: Safety / Wives??? () 67. 04:59 PM - Re: Re: Safety / Wives??? () 68. 05:52 PM - Re: Re: Wives??? Sorry Guys I'm too dam Lucky! (Ron Crook) 69. 06:10 PM - Use good tools (Ron Lendon) 70. 06:20 PM - Re: Re: Safety / Wives??? (Steve Hulland) 71. 06:31 PM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (William J. Naumuk) 72. 06:34 PM - Re: Corvair (Daniel Dempsey) 73. 06:43 PM - Re: Re: Safety / Wives??? (William J. Naumuk) 74. 07:42 PM - Re: Apology for inconvenience (William Jeffries) 75. 07:55 PM - Re: 701 Babbage Area Ideas (Larry) 76. 08:23 PM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (kevinbonds) 77. 08:55 PM - Re: kit (kevinbonds) 78. 09:25 PM - Re: 701 Firewall Drwg 7-F-7 (NYTerminat@aol.com) 79. 11:26 PM - Re: Safety / Wives??? (Richard Hutson) 80. 11:27 PM - Re: Re: Safety / Wives??? (Richard Hutson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:55:12 AM PST US From: Kevin Thorp Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Table plans --> Zenith-List message posted by: Kevin Thorp It looks like Jim Pensinger built a very handy table: http://www.tn004.com/N250JP.htm >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Paul >>Roy >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Zenith-List: Table plans >> >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" >> >> >>Good day everyone. A few weeks ago, while surfing on the net abnout CH >>701, >>I came across a site with a very detailed plan for a work table. >>Unfortunatly I had a bad computer crash and I lost the link to that >>site. >>It also has a lot of commentary pertaining to the eight of the table (33 >>inches if I recall) and so on. I know there is one on CH701 but not as >>complete as the one I'm searching for. >>Is there a good soul on this site that could help me. >> >>Jean-Paul Roy >>soon to be a 701 builder >>Do not archive >> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:57:27 AM PST US From: "Frank Roskind" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine Failures --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Roskind" Accident analysis is a tough business. The reports give you frequency, and occasional insights into causation, but there is a lot at play, not the least of which is the pilot. A few years back, circa 1982 (+-4 years), I was looking at one of the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety publications, and noticed there was a significant difference in the safety records of the Chevy Caprice/Impala and the Oldsmobile 88, even though the cars were as nearly identical in mechanical componenets as two cars with different trim could be. The Olds was considerably safer. Obviously there was a difference in the drivers, or their environment. Olds were more expensive, so maybe their owners lived in better areas. A similar effect might occur in aviation where the Maule has a relatively poor safety record and the 172 has a great one. Aside from landing gear issues, the Maule is more likely to be flown for money, and under situations where the pilot can't say no to a trip. Extending that to the RV compared to the Zenith, the RV has more cross country capability, and is much more likely to be flown into adverse weather because of that use. Further, most RV pilots (not all, by any means) I have met think they are undiscovered Bob Hoovers. This can't help with their safety record. In short, any safety analyst will tell you that the most important component is the nut right behind the wheel. From: "jim" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine Failures --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jim" Mike, Fully agree. It would be a complex analytical test, even if the data was available, which it isn't. Jim Jim Pellien Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes www.MASPL.com 703-313-4818 jim@sportsplanes.com ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Mike Fortunato >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fortunato > > >> How many 601's have Rotax engines and how many have >> Suburu's is the next thing we need to really better >> understand which engine is less reliable than the >> other. > >IMO, I'm not sure anything productive could be gained >by such an analysis, unless more details on what >constituted an "engine failure" could be made >available. Was it the fuel system? Electrical? Or an >intergral engine component? The data would have to be >far more detailed in order to make any kind of useful >conclusions. > >Mike Fortunato > >do not archive > > > > >__________________________________ > > Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:10 AM PST US From: "Jean-Paul Roy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Table plans --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" Very interesting. Thanks for posting. Jean-Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Thorp" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Table plans > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Kevin Thorp > > It looks like Jim Pensinger built a very handy table: > > http://www.tn004.com/N250JP.htm > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > >>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Paul > >>Roy > >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com > >>Subject: Zenith-List: Table plans > >> > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" > >> > >> > >>Good day everyone. A few weeks ago, while surfing on the net abnout CH > >>701, > >>I came across a site with a very detailed plan for a work table. > >>Unfortunatly I had a bad computer crash and I lost the link to that > >>site. > >>It also has a lot of commentary pertaining to the eight of the table (33 > >>inches if I recall) and so on. I know there is one on CH701 but not as > >>complete as the one I'm searching for. > >>Is there a good soul on this site that could help me. > >> > >>Jean-Paul Roy > >>soon to be a 701 builder > >>Do not archive > >> > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:53 AM PST US From: Michael Valentine Subject: Zenith-List: Hinge Rubbing? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michael Valentine I am installing my elevator hinge. I have already attached it to the stab, so this question may be too late, but I am curious about how tight one can install it to the front spar/fold of the elevator. If you put the hinge snug against the curve of the spar, won't it rub as it moves? More importantly, perhaps, will it rub (and maybe wear) in a way that should be avoided? I am only talking about the hinge itself rubbing (or the half of the hinge that is riveted to the stab), not the actual elevator hitting or rubbing. Thanks, Michael Valentine Please copy your reply to me off list - I only get the digest version of the list once a day! ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:04 AM PST US From: "Larry" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Babbage Area Ideas --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" There is a couple of scratch 701 builders in Hot Springs, Arkansas who put a divider half way back in the baggage area and made an outside access door. Looks goods and a good place to carry stinky stuff like funnels, oil can and even an extra gas can. I used eight eye-bolts and plan to getting a net of some sort. But I will still have the problem of carrying my test bottle and water separator funnel inside the cabin because they smell like gas. So I will at some time build a belly pod. Just a little update on my own plane status. First I am waiting on the air brush work on and cowling. And second I can't seem to get a wing tank gas leak stopped. I accidentally drilled a hole of two in my plastic tanks and no matter what I use, epoxy, plastic repair or whatever, they always seem to start leading again, so, I am going to pull all four tanks and make my own fiberglass ones. I also had one of the poly lines split, so I am re-plumbing the entire aircraft fuel lines with high pressure fuel injection line. I am going to fix it once and far all. The engine runs great, I have 3 hours on it with no problems. Larry, N1345L www.angelfire.com/un/ch701 ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Babbage Area Ideas > --> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com > > Are there any useful ideas for building into the baggage area, things that > have worked out well, or things that you wish were there now? > > My 701 is at the stage where features can be added easily. So far just a > few > hard points for straps. > > Mine is the large baggage area, open front, is there a good way to close > it > up? > > Jerry, CH 701 SP about 85% > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:58:29 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? From: "John Hines" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" I agree that it's a safe plane. The problem has been convincing my wife that it is safe. The word "Experimental" on the side makes her very nervous. She is nervous enough when it doesn't say experimental. I don't even have my license yet and I have a fairly limited budget. I almost bought a Piper Colt but then started looking at the operating and maintenance costs. With 8gph plus maintenance plus fabric...it aint cheap. I'm also betting my life on 60 year old technology and a 55 year old airframe. I'm a big guy and don't fit very well in it. And the biggest thing is that it's ugly!! The 601 has nice sleek lines. It will cost a little more money than a Colt and it will take time. But I like building things. The satisfaction I would get from flying a plane I built would be incredible. If I could just get my wife to see that. She is reluctantly on board at this point but she rolls her eyes a lot and says "why do you have to get an experimental plane?" My birthday is tomorrow and she has agreed to send me to the builder's clinic at the Zenith factory in January. How did you guys get your wives completely on board? John Hines ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:43:02 AM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" How did you guys get your wives completely on board? This is probably the most important aspect of embarking on a homebuilding project. The first thing you have to do is LAY DOWN THE LAW at home as to how things are going to be. You will need the entire family savings, most of the space in you house, and no other obligations on your free time, wife must be on hand and available at a moments notice to de-burr thousands of holes, clean up your work area, and to drive you to the emergency room. During the first couple of nights on the couch, you can review your strategy and try to figure out how you went awry.............. Regards, Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas, NV Do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:44:50 AM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" How did you guys get your wives completely on board? This is probably the most important aspect of embarking on a homebuilding project. The first thing you have to do is LAY DOWN THE LAW at home as to how things are going to be. You will need the entire family savings, most of the space in you house, and no other obligations on your free time, wife must be on hand and available at a moments notice to de-burr thousands of holes, clean up your work area, and to drive you to the emergency room. During the first couple of nights on the couch, you can review your strategy and try to figure out how you went awry.............. Regards, Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas, NV Do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:45:09 AM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" How did you guys get your wives completely on board? This is probably the most important aspect of embarking on a homebuilding project. The first thing you have to do is LAY DOWN THE LAW at home as to how things are going to be. You will need the entire family savings, most of the space in you house, and no other obligations on your free time, wife must be on hand and available at a moments notice to de-burr thousands of holes, clean up your work area, and to drive you to the emergency room. During the first couple of nights on the couch, you can review your strategy and try to figure out how you went awry.............. Regards, Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas, NV Do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:10 AM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" How did you guys get your wives completely on board? This is probably the most important aspect of embarking on a homebuilding project. The first thing you have to do is LAY DOWN THE LAW at home as to how things are going to be. You will need the entire family savings, most of the space in you house, and no other obligations on your free time, wife must be on hand and available at a moments notice to de-burr thousands of holes, clean up your work area, and to drive you to the emergency room. During the first couple of nights on the couch, you can review your strategy and try to figure out how you went awry.............. Regards, Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas, NV Do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:33 AM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" How did you guys get your wives completely on board? This is probably the most important aspect of embarking on a homebuilding project. The first thing you have to do is LAY DOWN THE LAW at home as to how things are going to be. You will need the entire family savings, most of the space in you house, and no other obligations on your free time, wife must be on hand and available at a moments notice to de-burr thousands of holes, clean up your work area, and to drive you to the emergency room. During the first couple of nights on the couch, you can review your strategy and try to figure out how you went awry.............. Regards, Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas, NV Do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:53 AM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" How did you guys get your wives completely on board? This is probably the most important aspect of embarking on a homebuilding project. The first thing you have to do is LAY DOWN THE LAW at home as to how things are going to be. You will need the entire family savings, most of the space in you house, and no other obligations on your free time, wife must be on hand and available at a moments notice to de-burr thousands of holes, clean up your work area, and to drive you to the emergency room. During the first couple of nights on the couch, you can review your strategy and try to figure out how you went awry.............. Regards, Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas, NV Do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:15 AM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" How did you guys get your wives completely on board? This is probably the most important aspect of embarking on a homebuilding project. The first thing you have to do is LAY DOWN THE LAW at home as to how things are going to be. You will need the entire family savings, most of the space in you house, and no other obligations on your free time, wife must be on hand and available at a moments notice to de-burr thousands of holes, clean up your work area, and to drive you to the emergency room. During the first couple of nights on the couch, you can review your strategy and try to figure out how you went awry.............. Regards, Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas, NV Do not archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:33 AM PST US From: "Al Young" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" John- Welcome to the club!! Looking back 3 1/2 years+ I was confronted with the same thing. first- Take your wife to the rudder workshop with you. Have Roger take her up in the company XL for just a short flight. Let her help build the rudder, pull a few rivets etc. After you build the rudder, and before you leave Mexico, MO get her to let you order the rest of the tail kit to take home with you. Find some local 601 or 701 builders near your home and go with your wife to visit their projects, meet there wives, (pre screen before visits for attitude, enthusiasm etc.) If after all this, she is still not on board, there is only one thing to do- Divorce. Just kidding John, good luck. Al Young 601XL- N601AY Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:57 AM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" How did you guys get your wives completely on board? This is probably the most important aspect of embarking on a homebuilding project. The first thing you have to do is LAY DOWN THE LAW at home as to how things are going to be. You will need the entire family savings, most of the space in you house, and no other obligations on your free time, wife must be on hand and available at a moments notice to de-burr thousands of holes, clean up your work area, and to drive you to the emergency room. During the first couple of nights on the couch, you can review your strategy and try to figure out how you went awry.............. Regards, Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas, NV Do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:55 AM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" How did you guys get your wives completely on board? This is probably the most important aspect of embarking on a homebuilding project. The first thing you have to do is LAY DOWN THE LAW at home as to how things are going to be. You will need the entire family savings, most of the space in you house, and no other obligations on your free time, wife must be on hand and available at a moments notice to de-burr thousands of holes, clean up your work area, and to drive you to the emergency room. During the first couple of nights on the couch, you can review your strategy and try to figure out how you went awry.............. Regards, Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas, NV Do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:16 AM PST US From: Dabusmith@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Babbage Area Ideas --> Zenith-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com Jerry I really like the glove box Van's sells for around $30. It is really nice. All predrilled. Worth the money. Eventually I plan to put one on the aft side of the rear bulkhead of my baggage compartment. The door on the outside and the hinge fwd. I would like a place for sump tool and fuel stick. I really like the full baggage area for camping. It really is surprising how much room there is. Dave Smith N701XL 912ULS 500Hrs PS. Replaced my rubber engine mounts. They were worn more than I expected. Still solid with no cracking, but pretty well hammered stiff. I think 500hrs is all we can expect from these. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:26 AM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" How did you guys get your wives completely on board? This is probably the most important aspect of embarking on a homebuilding project. The first thing you have to do is LAY DOWN THE LAW at home as to how things are going to be. You will need the entire family savings, most of the space in you house, and no other obligations on your free time, wife must be on hand and available at a moments notice to de-burr thousands of holes, clean up your work area, and to drive you to the emergency room. During the first couple of nights on the couch, you can review your strategy and try to figure out how you went awry.............. Regards, Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas, NV Do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:58 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine Failures, Cause of accidents? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower I have learned that reading, helped by experience, is the # 1 mentor in our life. There is an article, that was added by Mr Leighton Collins, in the great book "Stick and Rudder" that we all shoud read at least once a year.... The name of the article is "The Dangers of the Air". If you dont want to read all the book, because you already know how to fly :-) at least read this article. A must for low hours new pilots... Hope you enjoy, fly safe.... Saludos Gary Gower Frank Roskind wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Roskind" Accident analysis is a tough business. The reports give you frequency, and occasional insights into causation, but there is a lot at play, not the least of which is the pilot. A few years back, circa 1982 (+-4 years), I was looking at one of the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety publications, and noticed there was a significant difference in the safety records of the Chevy Caprice/Impala and the Oldsmobile 88, even though the cars were as nearly identical in mechanical componenets as two cars with different trim could be. The Olds was considerably safer. Obviously there was a difference in the drivers, or their environment. Olds were more expensive, so maybe their owners lived in better areas. A similar effect might occur in aviation where the Maule has a relatively poor safety record and the 172 has a great one. Aside from landing gear issues, the Maule is more likely to be flown for money, and under situations where the pilot can't say no to a trip. Extending that to the RV compared to the Zenith, the RV has more cross country capability, and is much more likely to be flown into adverse weather because of that use. Further, most RV pilots (not all, by any means) I have met think they are undiscovered Bob Hoovers. This can't help with their safety record. In short, any safety analyst will tell you that the most important component is the nut right behind the wheel. From: "jim" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine Failures --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jim" Mike, Fully agree. It would be a complex analytical test, even if the data was available, which it isn't. Jim Jim Pellien Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes www.MASPL.com 703-313-4818 jim@sportsplanes.com ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Mike Fortunato >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fortunato > > >> How many 601's have Rotax engines and how many have >> Suburu's is the next thing we need to really better >> understand which engine is less reliable than the >> other. > >IMO, I'm not sure anything productive could be gained >by such an analysis, unless more details on what >constituted an "engine failure" could be made >available. Was it the fuel system? Electrical? Or an >intergral engine component? The data would have to be >far more detailed in order to make any kind of useful >conclusions. > >Mike Fortunato > >do not archive > > >__________________________________ > > Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:04 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" This can be one of the most difficult things to in building an airplane. Firstly the word "experimental" is simply a class of certification. It of course has nothing to do with the safety of the airplane (which is largly up to you dear builder, at least if you stray from the plans). Any airplane that crashes is investigated with the same vigour by the NTSB no matter what its got written on the side. If there was a fundamental flaw both the FAA and NTSB would be all over it. Note the unexplained wing spar failure of the first RV8. There was one hell of a lot of attention both from prospective builders and the feds until it was put down to overloading by some rather "spirited" flying. Economics alone, the homebuilt industry is maturing fast and in the inernet age bad news travels quickly. If the design had a fundamental flaw it would be known about and Zenith has a long track record with this design. Much of the (small) risk is really due to the average Joe building the airplane. In other words there are no controls and nothing to stop someone using PVC covered wire or try sucking 82 octane mogas with an uncooled engine driven pump only from the wing tanks (AKA Russian roulette..:). Seems to me the big risks are more to do with lack of education of the builder/assembler than the airframe itself. I think if you can convince your Wife that you intend to seek knowledgable assistance and do the appropriate research you can minimise these risks, maybe that will bring her around. You might want to point out that Space Ship one was also registered as an experimental. The fact there are now more experimentals being built than certified airplanes would say there must be a good reason to go Experimental. One thing I would urge (and this is just a personal position) is really try to get her on board and if you can't consider NOT building an airplane right now. I say this because airplane building is an all consuming hobby...Or it is if you ever want to get it finished. To give you an idea, I don't work Fridays and my Wife likes to work in the yard Saturdays...So I get roughly two days a week to work on my current project. Allowing life to get in the way (like it always does) I will have managed about 800 hours or so in a full year to work on this thing. I am estimating about 1200 to finish and My lovely Wife is very supportive but is right on the edge of having a hard time with my project. If yours is starting off where my Wife is now you may have some serious strife in a year from now. As A guide it took me 950hours from crate to flying my 601 HDS. Good luck John..And remember, Experimental does not mean "experiment"!! Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hines Subject: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" --> I agree that it's a safe plane. The problem has been convincing my wife that it is safe. The word "Experimental" on the side makes her very nervous. She is nervous enough when it doesn't say experimental. I don't even have my license yet and I have a fairly limited budget. I almost bought a Piper Colt but then started looking at the operating and maintenance costs. With 8gph plus maintenance plus fabric...it aint cheap. I'm also betting my life on 60 year old technology and a 55 year old airframe. I'm a big guy and don't fit very well in it. And the biggest thing is that it's ugly!! The 601 has nice sleek lines. It will cost a little more money than a Colt and it will take time. But I like building things. The satisfaction I would get from flying a plane I built would be incredible. If I could just get my wife to see that. She is reluctantly on board at this point but she rolls her eyes a lot and says "why do you have to get an experimental plane?" My birthday is tomorrow and she has agreed to send me to the builder's clinic at the Zenith factory in January. How did you guys get your wives completely on board? John Hines ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:31 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa John, I'm probably part of the lucky bunch: my wife gave me the plans as a birthday gift. She's not impressed by airplanes (she does go flying with me on rented 152s once in a while), but I think she trusts my skills (c'mon, quit laughing, guys!). (Maybe she's got her eyes on that fat life insurance?? Nah, just kiddin') Unfortunately many (most?) people still raise eyebrows when you talk about "experimental" aircraft. I guess it is up to us to educate them. Carlos do not archive --- John Hines wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" > > How did you guys get your wives completely > on board? > > John Hines ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:56 AM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez Im glad you brought this topic. Im in a similar situation with my wife, she only have confidence in commercial aviation. So far I have her consent but not necessarily her support. I think it is easier for those who where already involved in aviation by the time they got married, not my case. My hope is time, during the years it will take to build the plane I hope she get a better understanding of the risk involved and get motivated. We have no kids and that helps a lot. I would like to hear about how others are doing. I have to confess that if the roles where reversed - she going for a perceived dangerous sport I would be acting very much like her. William Dominguez Plansbuilt Zodiac 601XL/Corvair Working on shop --- John Hines wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" > > > I agree that it's a safe plane. The problem has > been convincing my wife > that it is safe. The word "Experimental" on the > side makes her very > nervous. She is nervous enough when it doesn't say > experimental. I > don't even have my license yet and I have a fairly > limited budget. I > almost bought a Piper Colt but then started looking > at the operating and > maintenance costs. With 8gph plus maintenance plus > fabric...it aint > cheap. I'm also betting my life on 60 year old > technology and a 55 year > old airframe. I'm a big guy and don't fit very well > in it. And the > biggest thing is that it's ugly!! The 601 has nice > sleek lines. It will > cost a little more money than a Colt and it will > take time. But I like > building things. The satisfaction I would get from > flying a plane I > built would be incredible. If I could just get my > wife to see that. > She is reluctantly on board at this point but she > rolls her eyes a lot > and says "why do you have to get an experimental > plane?" My birthday is > tomorrow and she has agreed to send me to the > builder's clinic at the > Zenith factory in January. How did you guys get > your wives completely > on board? > > John Hines > > > > Click on > about > provided > www.buildersbooks.com, > Admin. > _-> > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:37 AM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Babbage Area Ideas --> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com In a message dated 11/8/2005 9:32:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, lrm01@centurytel.net writes: www.angelfire.com/un/ch701 Larry how is that Hog engine working out? Bob Spudis Do not archive ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:08:05 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com John, hard nut to crack. I flew rented planes for years with my wife and she never really relaxed. On the other hand, she was with me out in the shop for the three years it took to complete my XL and she has even bragged that she trusts our plane more that any 747 because she knows the guy who built it and maintains it and she trust him so I hope she will embrace flying with me. I have 32.2 hours or my 40 so it will not be too long before I can test this hypothesis. Course, you could just get her liquored up and pour her in the seat. Worked before. Best regards, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:08 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL John I feeeeel your pain! Scott Laughlin www.cooknwithgas.com John Hines wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" I agree that it's a safe plane. The problem has been convincing my wife that it is safe. The word "Experimental" on the side makes her very nervous. --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:47 AM PST US From: doug kandle Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: doug kandle I don't think I have ever met anyone who has successfully converted their spouse from person who dislikes flying to a willing flying companion. Long before the infectious disease with the same name existed, AIDS meant Aircraft Induced Divorce Syndrome. I feel I am somewhat an expert in the field, having been married more than a couple of times. My present (and hopefully my last) wife is an avid flyer. When people tell me "you are so lucky to have a wife that likes to fly with you" I immediately tell them that luck had nothing to do with it. On our first flying date, I proceeded to a safe area and height and entered a 3 turn spin. When my date said "that was fun, do it again" I knew it was love at first flight. The only happy pilots I know that have non-flying spouses are the ones who have just accepted the situation, and fly with others or by themselves. There are a lot of bitter pilots out there as a result of this issue. Fear/danger feelings are usually not logical (how many women will drive down the freeway while talking on a cell phone). Good luck DO NOT ARCHIVE At 08:57 AM 11/8/2005, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" > >I agree that it's a safe plane. The problem has been convincing my wife >that it is safe. The word "Experimental" on the side makes her very >nervous. She is nervous enough when it doesn't say experimental. I >don't even have my license yet and I have a fairly limited budget. I >almost bought a Piper Colt but then started looking at the operating and >maintenance costs. With 8gph plus maintenance plus fabric...it aint >cheap. I'm also betting my life on 60 year old technology and a 55 year >old airframe. I'm a big guy and don't fit very well in it. And the >biggest thing is that it's ugly!! The 601 has nice sleek lines. It will >cost a little more money than a Colt and it will take time. But I like >building things. The satisfaction I would get from flying a plane I >built would be incredible. If I could just get my wife to see that. >She is reluctantly on board at this point but she rolls her eyes a lot >and says "why do you have to get an experimental plane?" My birthday is >tomorrow and she has agreed to send me to the builder's clinic at the >Zenith factory in January. How did you guys get your wives completely >on board? > >John Hines ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:21:23 AM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Zenith-List: Apology for inconvenience --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" Dear Listers: I Apologize for the inconvenience I have caused you. It was not intentional. My Outlook Express picked that message to go belly up. The message will not leave the out box and was sent every time I changed screens. My sent items folder has been wiped clean. I have shut down that computer and am sending this from another office. Thanks to all those who emailed me to advise. Another attempt at weak humor goes bad. Humbly Yours, Randy L. Thwing, Las vegas, NV Do not Archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:27 AM PST US From: "Clyde Barcus" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus" My wife agreed simply because I have dreamed about it for years and I have always put the family first and she agrees it is my turn. My 601 XL was purchased and picked up on our anniversary 2 years ago. She has reluctantly agreed to fly with me and my plan is to pick locations she really wants to visit, fly in and do what she wants while there with no complaints, in other words, make the first few trips something of great interest to her even if I have no interest. I will also make sure to keep segments under 3 hours and cancel when flying will be rough. Fortunately, there are a lot of places in this country we would both enjoy and I will add that later, hopefully after winning her over. If it doesn't work I have sons and grandchildren that will really enjoy flying. I don't know if it is possible to win them over completely until after the fact, but I will give it one heck of a try. Best of Luck Clyde Barcus 601 XL Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hines" Subject: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" > > > I agree that it's a safe plane. The problem has been convincing my wife > that it is safe. The word "Experimental" on the side makes her very > nervous. She is nervous enough when it doesn't say experimental. I > don't even have my license yet and I have a fairly limited budget. I > almost bought a Piper Colt but then started looking at the operating and > maintenance costs. With 8gph plus maintenance plus fabric...it aint > cheap. I'm also betting my life on 60 year old technology and a 55 year > old airframe. I'm a big guy and don't fit very well in it. And the > biggest thing is that it's ugly!! The 601 has nice sleek lines. It will > cost a little more money than a Colt and it will take time. But I like > building things. The satisfaction I would get from flying a plane I > built would be incredible. If I could just get my wife to see that. > She is reluctantly on board at this point but she rolls her eyes a lot > and says "why do you have to get an experimental plane?" My birthday is > tomorrow and she has agreed to send me to the builder's clinic at the > Zenith factory in January. How did you guys get your wives completely > on board? > > John Hines > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:58 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Apology for inconvenience From: "John Hines" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" Randy, Don't worry about it, it was funny as hell!! John Hines -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy L. Thwing Subject: Zenith-List: Apology for inconvenience --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" Dear Listers: I Apologize for the inconvenience I have caused you. It was not intentional. My Outlook Express picked that message to go belly up. The message will not leave the out box and was sent every time I changed screens. My sent items folder has been wiped clean. I have shut down that computer and am sending this from another office. Thanks to all those who emailed me to advise. Another attempt at weak humor goes bad. Humbly Yours, Randy L. Thwing, Las vegas, NV Do not Archive ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:26 AM PST US From: Keith Ashcraft Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Apology for inconvenience --> Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Ashcraft Hey Randy, It suits your location. While playing the slots, you put in one coin, pull the handle and hope for a lot of change to come your way, SO..... you typed the message, pushed the send, and.... WOE--LA a lot of messages appeared :-D :-D :-D Keith N 38.9947 W 105.1305 Alt. 9,100 CH701 (cutting and building flaperon parts) www.geocities.com/ch701builder ********************************************************************** John Hines wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" > >Randy, > >Don't worry about it, it was funny as hell!! > >John Hines > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy L. >Thwing >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Apology for inconvenience > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" > > >Dear Listers: > I Apologize for the inconvenience I have caused you. It was not >intentional. My Outlook Express picked that message to go belly up. >The >message will not leave the out box and was sent every time I changed >screens. My sent items folder has been wiped clean. I have shut down >that >computer and am sending this from another office. Thanks to all those >who >emailed me to advise. Another attempt at weak humor goes bad. > >Humbly Yours, > >Randy L. Thwing, > >Las vegas, NV > >Do not Archive > > > > -- ************************************* *Keith Ashcraft* ITT Industries Advanced Engineering & Sciences 5009 Centennial Blvd. Colorado Springs, CO 80919 (719) 599-1787 -- work (719) 332-4364 -- cell keith.ashcraft@itt.com ************************************ This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Industries, Inc. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT Industries accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. ************************************ ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:44 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Corvair From: "John Hines" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" Guys, I know I am new so sorry for the flurry of questions. I am interested in the Corvair engine for an XL project. Everything sounds good except for the distributor using points. Is anyone using electronic ignition on Corvairs? I know what a maintenance nightmare points can be and I cant imagine having them in an airplane engine. Am I crazy? Should I be typing "Do not archive" on my stupid questions? John Hines ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:28 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Clyde, maybe getting you wife to help in the plans reading and organization as much as possible, even with small things of building, might get her to feel possessive of the plane and eager to experience the thrill of flying her. Certainly somewhere on this list or at EAA HQ we have some "pointy headed psychologists types" that could assist us in this quest for knowledge. Maybe we could publish a tip booklet. I'm sure the guy who build the first chariot had a devil of a time to get his wife to ride and the first boat builder. Well you get the drift, best regards, Bill ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 10:46:28 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz The "EXPERIMENTAL" is painted on our planes for a reason. They really are more dangerous than spam cans. The bright side - fear is a wonderful aphrodesiac. If this doesn't work with your wife, try giving airplane rides to the pretty young ladies hanging around the airport . . . Paul XL wings do not archive or show to my wife ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:30 AM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Table plans --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" Yes. It is very solid. In case of nuclear war, I'll duck and cover under there. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Paul Roy Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Table plans --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" No Kevin it's not the one but it shows really well how it's done. Looks as solid as rock. Thanks for posting. Jean-Paul ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 11:19:10 AM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" The workshop trip was my 10th anniversary gift. That was hard for her to say no to. HEE HE *wink. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hines Subject: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" I agree that it's a safe plane. The problem has been convincing my wife that it is safe. The word "Experimental" on the side makes her very nervous. She is nervous enough when it doesn't say experimental. I don't even have my license yet and I have a fairly limited budget. I almost bought a Piper Colt but then started looking at the operating and maintenance costs. With 8gph plus maintenance plus fabric...it aint cheap. I'm also betting my life on 60 year old technology and a 55 year old airframe. I'm a big guy and don't fit very well in it. And the biggest thing is that it's ugly!! The 601 has nice sleek lines. It will cost a little more money than a Colt and it will take time. But I like building things. The satisfaction I would get from flying a plane I built would be incredible. If I could just get my wife to see that. She is reluctantly on board at this point but she rolls her eyes a lot and says "why do you have to get an experimental plane?" My birthday is tomorrow and she has agreed to send me to the builder's clinic at the Zenith factory in January. How did you guys get your wives completely on board? John Hines ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 11:19:10 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Received-SPF: none (mgr1.xmission.com: 166.70.39.121 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of craigandjean.com) client-ip=166.70.39.121; envelope-from=craig@craigandjean.com; helo=TheTCCraig; Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Corvair T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled version=3.0.3 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" Do you have William's conversion manual or have you read through his web site? In my 6xxx-series manual starting on page 57 he describes the evolution of his ignition system and the final semi-dual solution. Basically it duplicates all the heat-sensitive parts: coil and points. His take on electronic ignition (page 57, third paragraph) is that when it fails it fails completely where as a points-based system gives some warning. I'm not completely convinced. I believe that modern electron ignition systems are designed with a "limp home" design. But having said that my ignition system is exactly what William recommends. To me the most interesting feature of an electronic ignition is the much hotter spark. William's view is that in all his years of flying Corvair engines he has never fouled a plug. So is a completely redundant system or a hotter spark needed? Probably not. He also argues that adding another plug to each cylinder (which he has done) causes more potential trouble (reducing the cooling fin surface area) than is gained by having redundant plugs. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hines Subject: Zenith-List: Corvair --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" --> Guys, I know I am new so sorry for the flurry of questions. I am interested in the Corvair engine for an XL project. Everything sounds good except for the distributor using points. Is anyone using electronic ignition on Corvairs? I know what a maintenance nightmare points can be and I cant imagine having them in an airplane engine. Am I crazy? Should I be typing "Do not archive" on my stupid questions? John Hines ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:33 AM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Corvair --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez The tried and tested method for Corvair conversion calls for a dual point ignition system. Go to www.flycorvair.com for more info. Also join the Corvair mail list in www.corvaircraft.com if you havent done so already. William Dominguez Plansbuilt Zodiac 601XL/Corvair Working on shop --- John Hines wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" > > > Guys, > > I know I am new so sorry for the flurry of > questions. I am interested > in the Corvair engine for an XL project. Everything > sounds good except > for the distributor using points. Is anyone using > electronic ignition > on Corvairs? I know what a maintenance nightmare > points can be and I > cant imagine having them in an airplane engine. Am > I crazy? > > Should I be typing "Do not archive" on my stupid > questions? > > John Hines > > > > Click on > about > provided > www.buildersbooks.com, > Admin. > _-> > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:55 AM PST US From: Daniel Vandenberg Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Corvair --> Zenith-List message posted by: Daniel Vandenberg John... Not sure what you've read about WW's system yet, but the basics follow: 1.) Make sure to review all that WW has written about the reasoning behind his dual point distributor system. Go to his web site and use the google search on the bottom of his front page to find the relevant areas: http://www.flycorvair.com/ 2.) Join the Corvair List, and then ask away. I suspect you'll probably become satisfied with WW's ignition system: http://mylist.net/listinfo/corvaircraft Dan Do Not Archive --- John Hines wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" > > > Guys, > > I know I am new so sorry for the flurry of > questions. I am interested > in the Corvair engine for an XL project. Everything > sounds good except > for the distributor using points. Is anyone using > electronic ignition > on Corvairs? I know what a maintenance nightmare > points can be and I > cant imagine having them in an airplane engine. Am > I crazy? > > Should I be typing "Do not archive" on my stupid > questions? > > John Hines __________________________________ http://farechase.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:56 AM PST US From: "Randy Stout" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Corvair --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" I have an electronic ignition in mine. Actually 2 of them. The problem with electronic ignition its that if it fails, it fails without warning. Points normally go bad over a period of time. That's why I have 2 electronic ignitions, so I can flip a switch and hopefully the backup will allow a restart. Randy Stout n282rs"at"earthlink.net www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 > [Original Message] > From: John Hines > To: > Date: 11/8/2005 12:12:35 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Corvair > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" > > Guys, > > I know I am new so sorry for the flurry of questions. I am interested > in the Corvair engine for an XL project. Everything sounds good except > for the distributor using points. Is anyone using electronic ignition > on Corvairs? I know what a maintenance nightmare points can be and I > cant imagine having them in an airplane engine. Am I crazy? > > Should I be typing "Do not archive" on my stupid questions? > > John Hines > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 12:11:27 PM PST US From: "Randy Culp" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Corvair --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Culp" One other point to be made here is that (according to WW, who is an A&P), all regular aircraft magnetos use points. William claims that most pilots don't realize that, and at least in my case.....he was right. Randy (no A&P, and barely a pilot) XL with WW built Corvair working on the fuselage > > [Original Message] > > From: John Hines > > To: > > Date: 11/8/2005 12:12:35 PM > > Subject: Zenith-List: Corvair > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" > > > > > Guys, > > > > I know I am new so sorry for the flurry of questions. I am interested > > in the Corvair engine for an XL project. Everything sounds good except > > for the distributor using points. Is anyone using electronic ignition > > on Corvairs? I know what a maintenance nightmare points can be and I > > cant imagine having them in an airplane engine. Am I crazy? > > > > Should I be typing "Do not archive" on my stupid questions? > > > > John Hines > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 12:26:41 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: RE: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: When you mention that Sapce Ship One was also classified as Experimental, leave out the part where Mike Melville had to hang on through a couple dozen rolls before he got it to stabilize. Too much info.... in fact leave out space ship one altogether. Boldly going where no man has gone before and all that will get you exactly nowhere with her. Tell you what, take a few weeks to practice thinking like her, you know, do a few sets of mood swings twice a day. Try retaining fluid, check your backside in the mirror etc. That should give you enough insight to play this right from the start. Remember, you have to make this work. You only go around once in life.... unless you are a Buddist, but that's a different subject. Also, I forgot to mention that you need to point out to her that you won't have any time left over for chasing loose women.... If she doesn't come on board with the project then you will have plenty of free time to chase loose women! Oh yeah, also leave out the bit about the bent RV spars and such. Ed ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 12:28:42 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Oh Man, keep an eye on her. She is definitely up to something. Ed > > From: Carlos Sa > Date: 2005/11/08 Tue AM 11:57:43 EST > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > > John, I'm probably part of the lucky bunch: my wife gave me the plans as a birthday gift. > She's not impressed by airplanes (she does go flying with me on rented 152s once in a while), but > I think she trusts my skills (c'mon, quit laughing, guys!). > > (Maybe she's got her eyes on that fat life insurance?? Nah, just kiddin') > > Unfortunately many (most?) people still raise eyebrows when you talk about "experimental" > aircraft. I guess it is up to us to educate them. > > Carlos > do not archive > > > --- John Hines wrote: > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" > > > > How did you guys get your wives completely > > on board? > > > > John Hines > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 12:40:53 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Corvair From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Yes there are pros and cons here. Points are setup so they carry the full current of the ignition coil so there there is a hefty arc every time the points switch. This is suppressed somewhat by adding a capacitor across the points, either way points die youg...But they do give you lots of warning. EE's have a very low current "switching" which is usually just an induction in small coil as a chunk of iron swings past it attached to the distributor...This current is then amplified by the ignitor chip which drives the coil...The system should be almost set and forget but when they die they die suddenly. Early EE systems were feeble. The Subaru chip being a prime example, It would only take the coil going low resistance to pull enough current to fry the chip (they also cost $300 gulp!)...I honestly cringe when I talk to a builder flying a single original Subaru chip! Today however there are many more bullet proof alternatives. You can use a TP45 system to replace the sooby set up and it is both inexpensive and extremly reliable.....I still have two of them to avoid the sudden death syndrome however. As to the magneto argument...I thought it was only spam can drivers that still had to live with those...:)..Their main benefit is they do not require any kind of electrical system to run...Debatable how valuable that benefit is with modern electronics however, especially as there is even an EE system for Lycosauruses that doesn't need a battery either. Took a lot longer to develop these systems than did their automotive counterparts not surprisingly. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Culp Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Corvair --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Culp" One other point to be made here is that (according to WW, who is an A&P), all regular aircraft magnetos use points. William claims that most pilots don't realize that, and at least in my case.....he was right. Randy (no A&P, and barely a pilot) XL with WW built Corvair working on the fuselage > > [Original Message] > > From: John Hines > > To: > > Date: 11/8/2005 12:12:35 PM > > Subject: Zenith-List: Corvair > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" > > > > > Guys, > > > > I know I am new so sorry for the flurry of questions. I am > > interested in the Corvair engine for an XL project. Everything > > sounds good except for the distributor using points. Is anyone > > using electronic ignition on Corvairs? I know what a maintenance > > nightmare points can be and I cant imagine having them in an airplane engine. Am I crazy? > > > > Should I be typing "Do not archive" on my stupid questions? > > > > John Hines > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 12:46:12 PM PST US From: "Thomas Boehmer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas Boehmer" Randy - Am I the only wife in the world who talked her husband into building an experimental airplane? He was frustrated with having to book rental time several weeks in advance, only to have it rain that day, or be too windy. I knew we couldn't afford 1/4 million for a new Cessna, so I talked him into building a plane. We devoured EAA's AeroCrafter book and finally decided on an 801 (short building time and pop rivets.) I loved the short field capacity of the 801, but when he saw the 601XL on Zenith's video he said "I want to build that plane - it's sexy!" I felt that my husband deserved to have his own airplane - flying makes him happy like nothing else ever has. Doesn't everyone deserve that? Come to think of it...I was the one who booked his first flight. We were at the airport one day and he casually said "I always wanted to learn how to fly." As a surprise I booked him a discovery flight for his birthday and the rest is history! It had never occurred to him to sign up for flight lessons - no one he knew was a pilot. We are 500 hours into the 601XL and my husband may have put in 50 hours working alone. It seems to take two of us to figure out the instructions and blue prints. He drills the holes and then says "I'm going out for a smoke - figure out what we do next!" Working on the plane together has been a great adventure. Dawna/Cincinnati >From: "Randy L. Thwing" >Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? >Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 08:40:48 -0800 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" > > >How did you guys get your wives completely >on board? > >This is probably the most important aspect of embarking on a homebuilding >project. The first thing you have to do is LAY DOWN THE LAW at home as to >how things are going to be. You will need the entire family savings, most >of the space in you house, and no other obligations on your free time, wife >must be on hand and available at a moments notice to de-burr thousands of >holes, clean up your work area, and to drive you to the emergency room. > >During the first couple of nights on the couch, you can review your >strategy >and try to figure out how you went awry.............. > >Regards, > >Randy L. Thwing, >Las Vegas, NV > >Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 12:53:26 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Oh baby! Wrong approach altogether. Back up and try again. That set up is garanteed to crash and burn before the end of the runway. How could you be so naive as to attempt honesty? Ed do not archive..... burn it into your memory > > From: Paul Mulwitz > Date: 2005/11/08 Tue PM 01:43:39 EST > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz > > The "EXPERIMENTAL" is painted on our planes for a reason. They really > are more dangerous than spam cans. > > The bright side - fear is a wonderful aphrodesiac. > > If this doesn't work with your wife, try giving airplane rides to the > pretty young ladies hanging around the airport . . . > > Paul > XL wings > do not archive or show to my wife > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:11 PM PST US Subject: RE: RE: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" You don't think my advice showed much insight to the female mind then? I'm a little shocked, maybe my Wife is used to being married to a mechanical engineer and as such my expectations are lower...She always seems to smile politely when I talk about how cool my lastest explosion was. Oh yeah...I been telling my Wife I been using the project to practice my "hermit skills"...Never been a hermit before and it takes lots of practice. Apparently things called "friends" are important to her for some reason? Have fun grovelling...:) Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dredmoody@cox.net Subject: Re: RE: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: When you mention that Sapce Ship One was also classified as Experimental, leave out the part where Mike Melville had to hang on through a couple dozen rolls before he got it to stabilize. Too much info.... in fact leave out space ship one altogether. Boldly going where no man has gone before and all that will get you exactly nowhere with her. Tell you what, take a few weeks to practice thinking like her, you know, do a few sets of mood swings twice a day. Try retaining fluid, check your backside in the mirror etc. That should give you enough insight to play this right from the start. Remember, you have to make this work. You only go around once in life.... unless you are a Buddist, but that's a different subject. Also, I forgot to mention that you need to point out to her that you won't have any time left over for chasing loose women.... If she doesn't come on board with the project then you will have plenty of free time to chase loose women! Oh yeah, also leave out the bit about the bent RV spars and such. Ed ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 12:56:33 PM PST US From: "Tommy Walker" Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Firewall Drwg 7-F-7 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" I'm looking for a little help here. Contacted factory but Nick's answer hasn't sunk in yet. Photo Guide Fuselage Section 6, page 6 says to measure down 235 mm and mark a spot on the 7F7-2C Vertical Lower Channel. The indications are that this should line up with the 160 mm mark from the bottom of the firewall. The 7F7-1SP upper channel top is to be 395mm from the bottom of the firewall. When I measure down the 7F7-2C channel 235 mm and make my mark, that does not line up with the 160mm mark from the bottom... Misses by about 4mm. The 7F7-1SP upper channel has a radius that pushes the 7F7-2C Vertical Channel down. According to what Nick is saying, the 235mm measurement should come from the top of the vertical channel, not from the 395 mark. (I hope this is making sense to someone) Well, because of the radius of the upper channel, it won't fit. I'm sure that the Nose Gear Bungee pin should be centered in the 160mm mark.... It's off by about 4mm Has anyone seen this with the 701 firewall? Thanks Tommy Walker in Alabama Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 01:00:03 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Okay, first since he did not say, "I want to build that plane. It's almost as sexy as you!" divorce him and marry me. Please. I'm too old for more kids but we could build lots of little planes together. You rock! Ed > > From: "Thomas Boehmer" > Date: 2005/11/08 Tue PM 03:43:33 EST > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas Boehmer" > > Randy - > Am I the only wife in the world who talked her husband into building an > experimental airplane? > He was frustrated with having to book rental time several weeks in advance, > only to have it rain that day, or be too windy. I knew we couldn't afford > 1/4 million for a new Cessna, so I talked him into building a plane. We > devoured EAA's AeroCrafter book and finally decided on an 801 (short > building time and pop rivets.) I loved the short field capacity of the 801, > but when he saw the 601XL on Zenith's video he said "I want to build that > plane - it's sexy!" > I felt that my husband deserved to have his own airplane - flying makes > him happy like nothing else ever has. Doesn't everyone deserve that? Come to > think of it...I was the one who booked his first flight. We were at the > airport one day and he casually said "I always wanted to learn how to fly." > As a surprise I booked him a discovery flight for his birthday and the rest > is history! It had never occurred to him to sign up for flight lessons - no > one he knew was a pilot. > We are 500 hours into the 601XL and my husband may have put in 50 hours > working alone. It seems to take two of us to figure out the instructions and > blue prints. He drills the holes and then says "I'm going out for a smoke - > figure out what we do next!" Working on the plane together has been a great > adventure. > Dawna/Cincinnati > > > >From: "Randy L. Thwing" > >Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com > >To: > >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? > >Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 08:40:48 -0800 > > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" > > > > > >How did you guys get your wives completely > >on board? > > > >This is probably the most important aspect of embarking on a homebuilding > >project. The first thing you have to do is LAY DOWN THE LAW at home as to > >how things are going to be. You will need the entire family savings, most > >of the space in you house, and no other obligations on your free time, wife > >must be on hand and available at a moments notice to de-burr thousands of > >holes, clean up your work area, and to drive you to the emergency room. > > > >During the first couple of nights on the couch, you can review your > >strategy > >and try to figure out how you went awry.............. > > > >Regards, > > > >Randy L. Thwing, > >Las Vegas, NV > > > >Do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 01:14:55 PM PST US From: doug kandle Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel Sender CH701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: doug kandle I just got off of the phone with Nick H. at Zenith. I am ready to install my fuel tanks. I purchased the long range option, so I have 4 tanks. The instructions have the fuel sender for the main tanks installed on the inboard side of the main tanks and the auxiliary tanks have their senders mounted on the top of the tank. I asked Nick if I can just mount the sender on the side of the outboard (aux) tank just like the main. The short of it is that he said I can mount the fuel level sender anywhere I like. But he said that the sender on the aux tanks are optional, I don't need to have them at all. This does have some appeal as it simplifies the installation. He suggested that if I don't have a fuel gauge for the aux tanks, that I take off on the mains, then switch to the aux tanks to use whatever fuel I had planned (using time to determine gallons), then switch back to the mains. Is anyone using the aux tanks with no fuel senders and is it working OK for you? -- Another topic I asked Nick about inspection plates. I want to be able to change the fuel lines and senders without skinning the wing. I asked if the plates needed to be considered a structural part of the wing. He said "yes they need to be considered a part of the structure". He went on to say that they needed to use nut plates and have enough screws so that it was just as strong as the original, uncut, skin (40mm spacing). I asked specifically about the use of plastic covers (mentioned on this list before), and I was told that they are for fabric planes with internal structure, not for metal planes where the strength of the plane is dependent on the skin. Doug Kandle CH701 Boise ID Rudder & Horiz. Stab. done Working on Wings From complete kit ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 01:16:44 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" WOW...Your the perfect woman! Of course..If I learned to ride horses I would be the perfect man for my Wife...:) Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Boehmer Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas Boehmer" Randy - Am I the only wife in the world who talked her husband into building an experimental airplane? He was frustrated with having to book rental time several weeks in advance, only to have it rain that day, or be too windy. I knew we couldn't afford 1/4 million for a new Cessna, so I talked him into building a plane. We devoured EAA's AeroCrafter book and finally decided on an 801 (short building time and pop rivets.) I loved the short field capacity of the 801, but when he saw the 601XL on Zenith's video he said "I want to build that plane - it's sexy!" I felt that my husband deserved to have his own airplane - flying makes him happy like nothing else ever has. Doesn't everyone deserve that? Come to think of it...I was the one who booked his first flight. We were at the airport one day and he casually said "I always wanted to learn how to fly." As a surprise I booked him a discovery flight for his birthday and the rest is history! It had never occurred to him to sign up for flight lessons - no one he knew was a pilot. We are 500 hours into the 601XL and my husband may have put in 50 hours working alone. It seems to take two of us to figure out the instructions and blue prints. He drills the holes and then says "I'm going out for a smoke - figure out what we do next!" Working on the plane together has been a great adventure. Dawna/Cincinnati >From: "Randy L. Thwing" >Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? >Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 08:40:48 -0800 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" > > >How did you guys get your wives completely on board? > >This is probably the most important aspect of embarking on a >homebuilding project. The first thing you have to do is LAY DOWN THE >LAW at home as to how things are going to be. You will need the entire >family savings, most of the space in you house, and no other >obligations on your free time, wife must be on hand and available at a >moments notice to de-burr thousands of holes, clean up your work area, and to drive you to the emergency room. > >During the first couple of nights on the couch, you can review your >strategy and try to figure out how you went awry.............. > >Regards, > >Randy L. Thwing, >Las Vegas, NV > >Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 01:18:28 PM PST US Subject: RE: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Hey buddy...there is a long line developing here y'know!...:) Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dredmoody@cox.net Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Okay, first since he did not say, "I want to build that plane. It's almost as sexy as you!" divorce him and marry me. Please. I'm too old for more kids but we could build lots of little planes together. You rock! Ed > > From: "Thomas Boehmer" > Date: 2005/11/08 Tue PM 03:43:33 EST > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas Boehmer" > > Randy - > Am I the only wife in the world who talked her husband into > building an experimental airplane? > He was frustrated with having to book rental time several weeks in > advance, only to have it rain that day, or be too windy. I knew we > couldn't afford > 1/4 million for a new Cessna, so I talked him into building a plane. > We devoured EAA's AeroCrafter book and finally decided on an 801 > (short building time and pop rivets.) I loved the short field capacity > of the 801, but when he saw the 601XL on Zenith's video he said "I > want to build that plane - it's sexy!" > I felt that my husband deserved to have his own airplane - flying > makes him happy like nothing else ever has. Doesn't everyone deserve > that? Come to think of it...I was the one who booked his first flight. > We were at the airport one day and he casually said "I always wanted to learn how to fly." > As a surprise I booked him a discovery flight for his birthday and the > rest is history! It had never occurred to him to sign up for flight > lessons - no one he knew was a pilot. > We are 500 hours into the 601XL and my husband may have put in 50 > hours working alone. It seems to take two of us to figure out the > instructions and blue prints. He drills the holes and then says "I'm > going out for a smoke - figure out what we do next!" Working on the > plane together has been a great adventure. > Dawna/Cincinnati > > > >From: "Randy L. Thwing" > >Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com > >To: > >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? > >Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 08:40:48 -0800 > > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" > > > > > >How did you guys get your wives completely on board? > > > >This is probably the most important aspect of embarking on a > >homebuilding project. The first thing you have to do is LAY DOWN THE > >LAW at home as to how things are going to be. You will need the > >entire family savings, most of the space in you house, and no other > >obligations on your free time, wife must be on hand and available at > >a moments notice to de-burr thousands of holes, clean up your work area, and to drive you to the emergency room. > > > >During the first couple of nights on the couch, you can review your > >strategy and try to figure out how you went awry.............. > > > >Regards, > > > >Randy L. Thwing, > >Las Vegas, NV > > > >Do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 01:33:08 PM PST US Subject: RE: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? From: "Eddie Seve" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Eddie Seve" The website below 'Dan Checkoway's' has a great blurb on getting you wife involved. http://www.rvproject.com/wife.html Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) Subject: RE: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Hey buddy...there is a long line developing here y'know!...:) Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dredmoody@cox.net Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Okay, first since he did not say, "I want to build that plane. It's almost as sexy as you!" divorce him and marry me. Please. I'm too old for more kids but we could build lots of little planes together. You rock! Ed > > From: "Thomas Boehmer" > Date: 2005/11/08 Tue PM 03:43:33 EST > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas Boehmer" > > Randy - > Am I the only wife in the world who talked her husband into > building an experimental airplane? > He was frustrated with having to book rental time several weeks in > advance, only to have it rain that day, or be too windy. I knew we > couldn't afford > 1/4 million for a new Cessna, so I talked him into building a plane. > We devoured EAA's AeroCrafter book and finally decided on an 801 > (short building time and pop rivets.) I loved the short field capacity > of the 801, but when he saw the 601XL on Zenith's video he said "I > want to build that plane - it's sexy!" > I felt that my husband deserved to have his own airplane - flying > makes him happy like nothing else ever has. Doesn't everyone deserve > that? Come to think of it...I was the one who booked his first flight. > We were at the airport one day and he casually said "I always wanted to learn how to fly." > As a surprise I booked him a discovery flight for his birthday and the > rest is history! It had never occurred to him to sign up for flight > lessons - no one he knew was a pilot. > We are 500 hours into the 601XL and my husband may have put in 50 > hours working alone. It seems to take two of us to figure out the > instructions and blue prints. He drills the holes and then says "I'm > going out for a smoke - figure out what we do next!" Working on the > plane together has been a great adventure. > Dawna/Cincinnati > > > >From: "Randy L. Thwing" > >Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com > >To: > >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? > >Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 08:40:48 -0800 > > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" > > > > > >How did you guys get your wives completely on board? > > > >This is probably the most important aspect of embarking on a > >homebuilding project. The first thing you have to do is LAY DOWN THE > >LAW at home as to how things are going to be. You will need the > >entire family savings, most of the space in you house, and no other > >obligations on your free time, wife must be on hand and available at > >a moments notice to de-burr thousands of holes, clean up your work area, and to drive you to the emergency room. > > > >During the first couple of nights on the couch, you can review your > >strategy and try to figure out how you went awry.............. > > > >Regards, > > > >Randy L. Thwing, > >Las Vegas, NV > > > >Do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:59 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Wives??? Sorry Guys I'm too dam Lucky! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" I'm sorry to say guys, my wife is much like Dawna and more. I used to fly a lot before I met my wife, but she never knew it. We spent so much time riding the motorcycles (that's how we met, she needed the chain replaced on her bike, I was in the shop)all over North America that flying just lapsed. Then came the kids and as the bikes lapsed I came home one day and said I am going to build a plane. Of course, I got the "are you nuts look" but she knows me all to well after 19yrs of marriage. She had one request, when I was half way through my project and that was to have a flight in a small plane as she has only ever been in a large plane once. After I took her for a flight, she was at my side, helping the build whenever needed or when she had time to spend with me. Now comes the drawback ! The 701 I have started is hers!!!! Like in the biking days she hates the back seat and wants the controls. The 701 with the bubble doors is her project, she says that she wants a plane just to toot around in and see the farms, maybe down the road add amphibs and go fishing! Now guess who is watching the kids more!!! My biggest concern now is how am I going to stay in formation with a 701??? Hmmm maybe next project will be an 801, I should be able to justify that? Shouldn't I? Nevertheless, even with a wife that is my absolute best friend, the time my metal mistress takes can have a toll if I get to carried away. I devote 2 nights a week to my family and every Sunday my wife asks for, is hers. As Chris says never, forget what is truly important! I will add, get them drilling holes and deburring, family time can be had in the workshop as well! Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Boehmer Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas Boehmer" Randy - Am I the only wife in the world who talked her husband into building an experimental airplane? He was frustrated with having to book rental time several weeks in advance, only to have it rain that day, or be too windy. I knew we couldn't afford 1/4 million for a new Cessna, so I talked him into building a plane. We devoured EAA's AeroCrafter book and finally decided on an 801 (short building time and pop rivets.) I loved the short field capacity of the 801, but when he saw the 601XL on Zenith's video he said "I want to build that plane - it's sexy!" I felt that my husband deserved to have his own airplane - flying makes him happy like nothing else ever has. Doesn't everyone deserve that? Come to think of it...I was the one who booked his first flight. We were at the airport one day and he casually said "I always wanted to learn how to fly." As a surprise I booked him a discovery flight for his birthday and the rest is history! It had never occurred to him to sign up for flight lessons - no one he knew was a pilot. We are 500 hours into the 601XL and my husband may have put in 50 hours working alone. It seems to take two of us to figure out the instructions and blue prints. He drills the holes and then says "I'm going out for a smoke - figure out what we do next!" Working on the plane together has been a great adventure. Dawna/Cincinnati >From: "Randy L. Thwing" >Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? >Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 08:40:48 -0800 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" > > >How did you guys get your wives completely >on board? > >This is probably the most important aspect of embarking on a homebuilding >project. The first thing you have to do is LAY DOWN THE LAW at home as to >how things are going to be. You will need the entire family savings, most >of the space in you house, and no other obligations on your free time, wife >must be on hand and available at a moments notice to de-burr thousands of >holes, clean up your work area, and to drive you to the emergency room. > >During the first couple of nights on the couch, you can review your >strategy >and try to figure out how you went awry.............. > >Regards, > >Randy L. Thwing, >Las Vegas, NV > >Do not archive > > -- Checked by AVG Free Edition. 11/8/2005 -- Checked by AVG Free Edition. 11/8/2005 ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 02:00:48 PM PST US From: "Tommy Walker" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Re: Safety/Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" ********************************************************************************************************* Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Hey buddy...there is a long line developing here y'know!...:) Frank Do not archive ************************************************************************************************ Please post a picture of the plane.... ;) Tommy Walker in Alabama definitely do not archive ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 02:12:29 PM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Boehmer Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas Boehmer" > > Randy - > Am I the only wife in the world who talked her husband into building an > experimental airplane? > He was frustrated with having to book rental time several weeks in advance, > only to have it rain that day, or be too windy. I knew we couldn't afford > 1/4 million for a new Cessna, so I talked him into building a plane. We > devoured EAA's AeroCrafter book and finally decided on an 801 (short > building time and pop rivets.) I loved the short field capacity of the 801, > but when he saw the 601XL on Zenith's video he said "I want to build that > plane - it's sexy!" > I felt that my husband deserved to have his own airplane - flying makes > him happy like nothing else ever has. Doesn't everyone deserve that? Come to > think of it...I was the one who booked his first flight. We were at the > airport one day and he casually said "I always wanted to learn how to fly." > As a surprise I booked him a discovery flight for his birthday and the rest > is history! It had never occurred to him to sign up for flight lessons - no > one he knew was a pilot. > We are 500 hours into the 601XL and my husband may have put in 50 hours > working alone. It seems to take two of us to figure out the instructions and > blue prints. He drills the holes and then says "I'm going out for a smoke - > figure out what we do next!" Working on the plane together has been a great > adventure. > Dawna/Cincinnati > > > >From: "Randy L. Thwing" > >Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com > >To: > >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? > >Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 08:40:48 -0800 > > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" > > > > > >How did you guys get your wives completely > >on board? > > > >This is probably the most important aspect of embarking on a homebuilding > >project. The first thing you have to do is LAY DOWN THE LAW at home as to > >how things are going to be. You will need the entire family savings, most > >of the space in you house, and no other obligations on your free time, wife > >must be on hand and available at a moments notice to de-burr thousands of > >holes, clean up your work area, and to drive you to the emergency room. > > > >During the first couple of nights on the couch, you can review your > >strategy > >and try to figure out how you went awry.............. > > > >Regards, > > > >Randy L. Thwing, > >Las Vegas, NV > > > >Do not archive > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:31 PM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" > Randy - > Am I the only wife in the world who talked her husband into building an > experimental airplane? Dawna: Like myself, your Husband is one lucky pilot. I'll bet he works hard to do his part. I'm not surprised that offers from other listers are pouring in! Hate to see a bidding war here! Best Regards, Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:31 PM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" > Randy - > Am I the only wife in the world who talked her husband into building an > experimental airplane? Dawna: Like myself, your Husband is one lucky pilot. I'll bet he works hard to do his part. I'm not surprised that offers from other listers are pouring in! Hate to see a bidding war here! Best Regards, Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 02:25:39 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? From: "Beckman, Rick" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick" > Am I the only wife in the world who talked her husband into building an > experimental airplane? > > Dawna/Cincinnati > > > > Dawna, You aren't the only one, for sure!! My Young Bride bought me the rudder kit for an XL five years ago this coming December, for my birthday. I went to my first EAA meeting, ch. 91 Lee's Summit,MO, where I met the Young Eagles' Director for the chapter on my way in. I told him the story and he said that I had better hang on to that one!!! Well, I think I will! I have always thought she's a keeper! 52EB DO NOT ARCHIVE!! ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 03:21:30 PM PST US From: "William J. Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" John- I made a deal with my wife 21 years ago, shortly after we got married. She got a horse, and I got my pilot's license. Now, she has TWO horses, and I have a........project. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hines" Subject: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" > > I agree that it's a safe plane. The problem has been convincing my wife > that it is safe. The word "Experimental" on the side makes her very > nervous. She is nervous enough when it doesn't say experimental. I > don't even have my license yet and I have a fairly limited budget. I > almost bought a Piper Colt but then started looking at the operating and > maintenance costs. With 8gph plus maintenance plus fabric...it aint > cheap. I'm also betting my life on 60 year old technology and a 55 year > old airframe. I'm a big guy and don't fit very well in it. And the > biggest thing is that it's ugly!! The 601 has nice sleek lines. It will > cost a little more money than a Colt and it will take time. But I like > building things. The satisfaction I would get from flying a plane I > built would be incredible. If I could just get my wife to see that. > She is reluctantly on board at this point but she rolls her eyes a lot > and says "why do you have to get an experimental plane?" My birthday is > tomorrow and she has agreed to send me to the builder's clinic at the > Zenith factory in January. How did you guys get your wives completely > on board? > > John Hines > > ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:36 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Static Ports for 701 From: ray.stlaurent@vsea.com --> Zenith-List message posted by: ray.stlaurent@vsea.com Hello fortunate flyers, After searching the archives I am still unclear. Is there a position for the static ports on a 701 that has been shown to be ?accurate?, or at least stable, especially at slow speeds? I have seen some references to using A5 rivets with their stems removed. Does that work or should I use store-bought ports? Thanks -- Ray 701, pegastol wings ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:21 PM PST US From: "Gary A. Boothe" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary A. Boothe" umm....2 horses = 2 planes. Right? Gary Boothe, Cool, Ca 601HDSTD, WW Corvair Conv. - complete Tail Group - complete. Working on Wings... Do not archive > > John- > I made a deal with my wife 21 years ago, shortly after we got married. > She got a horse, and I got my pilot's license. > Now, she has TWO horses, and I have a........project. > Bill >> >> > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 03:45:31 PM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland John, A man's hobbies never garner much respect until the project gets under way and shows signs of being in earnest. My arguments were always a comparison of what bar I might have been in if I didn't have such a hobby. I don't drink and she knows it, but she smokes and I don't, so in cost there's equivalence of sorts. I've always been involved in long projects, the last was the third aircraft. Even so, I enjoy flying it more than she will and continue to examine prospects for another project. She will perhaps continue to object. I've read that a contented man occupied with a hobby lives longer than the man that considers sex THE prime ingredient in life. I'd rather fly, as it lasts longer, compared to the cost of not doing something worth while and stimulating as building your own plane. Actually, it's nice to have her approval, but if she said "I cannot allow you to do this", then I'd simply have to go it alone. Hard way to live, but no relationship survives arbitrary ultimatums and it's better to know that at least before you get married. If the project keeps you away from the kids activities ball games etc, or if your airplane project curbs buying kids new tennis shoes, perhaps you should rethink the timing of your project and reconsider it after you're retired. Join or form an EAA Chapter and participate in the mutual interests of families that enjoy picnics and going on trips as a group to Oshkosh or Aircraft museums etc. This usually helps your partner feel included. Sharing the building process might help, but it's better to invite other chapter members to help and bring their families along occasionally to break out of the solitude of being a man in the shop oblivious to the rest of the world. I tend to do that and it doesn't help at all. I hope you find the middle ground, because that's all there is unless your wife suddenly wants to become a pilot too. Good luck and do not archive Larry McFarland - 601HDS John Hines wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" > >I agree that it's a safe plane. The problem has been convincing my wife >that it is safe. The word "Experimental" on the side makes her very >nervous. She is nervous enough when it doesn't say experimental. I >don't even have my license yet and I have a fairly limited budget. I >almost bought a Piper Colt but then started looking at the operating and >maintenance costs. With 8gph plus maintenance plus fabric...it aint >cheap. I'm also betting my life on 60 year old technology and a 55 year >old airframe. I'm a big guy and don't fit very well in it. And the >biggest thing is that it's ugly!! The 601 has nice sleek lines. It will >cost a little more money than a Colt and it will take time. But I like >building things. The satisfaction I would get from flying a plane I >built would be incredible. If I could just get my wife to see that. >She is reluctantly on board at this point but she rolls her eyes a lot >and says "why do you have to get an experimental plane?" My birthday is >tomorrow and she has agreed to send me to the builder's clinic at the >Zenith factory in January. How did you guys get your wives completely >on board? > >John Hines > > > > ________________________________ Message 63 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:26 PM PST US From: "William J. Naumuk" Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" All- This is addressed to probably 75% of the list: Have you ever felt a little strange listening to Pink Floyd, Zeppelin, and Journey on the "Oldies Station" while you're building? I ask you- what better hobby for a batch of "Grown up" (??) space cadets? Lighten up and enjoy. By the way, if you listen to the lyrics in an unaltered state, there's a Pink Floyd song that's all about getting your pilot's license. Can't remember the name. Now, my mood alteration comes from Alzheimers! Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: > > Okay, first since he did not say, "I want to build that plane. It's almost as sexy as you!" divorce him and marry me. Please. I'm too old for more kids but we could build lots of little planes together. You rock! > > Ed > > > > > From: "Thomas Boehmer" > > Date: 2005/11/08 Tue PM 03:43:33 EST > > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas Boehmer" > > > > Randy - > > Am I the only wife in the world who talked her husband into building an > > experimental airplane? > > He was frustrated with having to book rental time several weeks in advance, > > only to have it rain that day, or be too windy. I knew we couldn't afford > > 1/4 million for a new Cessna, so I talked him into building a plane. We > > devoured EAA's AeroCrafter book and finally decided on an 801 (short > > building time and pop rivets.) I loved the short field capacity of the 801, > > but when he saw the 601XL on Zenith's video he said "I want to build that > > plane - it's sexy!" > > I felt that my husband deserved to have his own airplane - flying makes > > him happy like nothing else ever has. Doesn't everyone deserve that? Come to > > think of it...I was the one who booked his first flight. We were at the > > airport one day and he casually said "I always wanted to learn how to fly." > > As a surprise I booked him a discovery flight for his birthday and the rest > > is history! It had never occurred to him to sign up for flight lessons - no > > one he knew was a pilot. > > We are 500 hours into the 601XL and my husband may have put in 50 hours > > working alone. It seems to take two of us to figure out the instructions and > > blue prints. He drills the holes and then says "I'm going out for a smoke - > > figure out what we do next!" Working on the plane together has been a great > > adventure. > > Dawna/Cincinnati > > > > > > >From: "Randy L. Thwing" > > >Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com > > >To: > > >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? > > >Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 08:40:48 -0800 > > > > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" > > > > > > > > >How did you guys get your wives completely > > >on board? > > > > > >This is probably the most important aspect of embarking on a homebuilding > > >project. The first thing you have to do is LAY DOWN THE LAW at home as to > > >how things are going to be. You will need the entire family savings, most > > >of the space in you house, and no other obligations on your free time, wife > > >must be on hand and available at a moments notice to de-burr thousands of > > >holes, clean up your work area, and to drive you to the emergency room. > > > > > >During the first couple of nights on the couch, you can review your > > >strategy > > >and try to figure out how you went awry.............. > > > > > >Regards, > > > > > >Randy L. Thwing, > > >Las Vegas, NV > > > > > >Do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 64 ____________________________________ Time: 03:59:28 PM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Corvair --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Points are sold for some of the latest aftermarket distributors because they are simple and reliable. Some automotive hot rodders like them better than the solid state pickups. It's your choice. It's a valid question, Larry McFarland do not archive John Hines wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" > >Guys, > >I know I am new so sorry for the flurry of questions. I am interested >in the Corvair engine for an XL project. Everything sounds good except >for the distributor using points. Is anyone using electronic ignition >on Corvairs? I know what a maintenance nightmare points can be and I >cant imagine having them in an airplane engine. Am I crazy? > >Should I be typing "Do not archive" on my stupid questions? > >John Hines > > > > ________________________________ Message 65 ____________________________________ Time: 04:30:21 PM PST US From: Rodney Mills Subject: Zenith-List: kit --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rodney Mills I just received the remainder of my kit today. Looks like I will have plenty to work on over the winter. I read the list everyday and now I'm sure that I will have questions that the list members can help with. Empenage has been hanging on the wall 2 years finished. Zenith has widened the front attach mounts since built so that will have to be worked out. WW corvair conversion almost ready to run, looking for a home. I am very happy to be getting back to building. do not archive Rodney Mills 601XL / Corvair West Alabama -- Checked by AVG Free Edition. ________________________________ Message 66 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:44 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: It's called "Learning To Fly", Bill. I piped the live version of it into my intercom for the first test flight of my little UL a couple of years ago. Ed do not archive..... just listen > > From: "William J. Naumuk" > Date: 2005/11/08 Tue PM 06:48:55 EST > To: > Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" > > All- > This is addressed to probably 75% of the list: > Have you ever felt a little strange listening to Pink Floyd, Zeppelin, > and Journey on the "Oldies Station" while you're building? I ask you- what > better hobby for a batch of "Grown up" (??) space cadets? > Lighten up and enjoy. > By the way, if you listen to the lyrics in an unaltered state, there's a > Pink Floyd song that's all about getting your pilot's license. Can't > remember the name. Now, my mood alteration comes from Alzheimers! > Bill > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: > > > > Okay, first since he did not say, "I want to build that plane. It's almost > as sexy as you!" divorce him and marry me. Please. I'm too old for more kids > but we could build lots of little planes together. You rock! > > > > Ed > > > > > > > > From: "Thomas Boehmer" > > > Date: 2005/11/08 Tue PM 03:43:33 EST > > > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > > > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? > > > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas Boehmer" > > > > > > Randy - > > > Am I the only wife in the world who talked her husband into > building an > > > experimental airplane? > > > He was frustrated with having to book rental time several weeks in > advance, > > > only to have it rain that day, or be too windy. I knew we couldn't > afford > > > 1/4 million for a new Cessna, so I talked him into building a plane. We > > > devoured EAA's AeroCrafter book and finally decided on an 801 (short > > > building time and pop rivets.) I loved the short field capacity of the > 801, > > > but when he saw the 601XL on Zenith's video he said "I want to build > that > > > plane - it's sexy!" > > > I felt that my husband deserved to have his own airplane - flying > makes > > > him happy like nothing else ever has. Doesn't everyone deserve that? > Come to > > > think of it...I was the one who booked his first flight. We were at the > > > airport one day and he casually said "I always wanted to learn how to > fly." > > > As a surprise I booked him a discovery flight for his birthday and the > rest > > > is history! It had never occurred to him to sign up for flight lessons - > no > > > one he knew was a pilot. > > > We are 500 hours into the 601XL and my husband may have put in 50 > hours > > > working alone. It seems to take two of us to figure out the instructions > and > > > blue prints. He drills the holes and then says "I'm going out for a > smoke - > > > figure out what we do next!" Working on the plane together has been a > great > > > adventure. > > > Dawna/Cincinnati > > > > > > > > > >From: "Randy L. Thwing" > > > >Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com > > > >To: > > > >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? > > > >Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 08:40:48 -0800 > > > > > > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" > > > > > > > > > > > >How did you guys get your wives completely > > > >on board? > > > > > > > >This is probably the most important aspect of embarking on a > homebuilding > > > >project. The first thing you have to do is LAY DOWN THE LAW at home as > to > > > >how things are going to be. You will need the entire family savings, > most > > > >of the space in you house, and no other obligations on your free time, > wife > > > >must be on hand and available at a moments notice to de-burr thousands > of > > > >holes, clean up your work area, and to drive you to the emergency room. > > > > > > > >During the first couple of nights on the couch, you can review your > > > >strategy > > > >and try to figure out how you went awry.............. > > > > > > > >Regards, > > > > > > > >Randy L. Thwing, > > > >Las Vegas, NV > > > > > > > >Do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 67 ____________________________________ Time: 04:59:49 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry wrote: "Even so, I enjoy flying it more than she will and continue to examine prospects for another project. She will perhaps continue to object." Well there you have it in a nutshell. You have to stay with your strengths and do whatever it is that you do best. Ed do not archive do not even bother to remember ________________________________ Message 68 ____________________________________ Time: 05:52:24 PM PST US From: "Ron Crook" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Wives??? Sorry Guys I'm too dam Lucky! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Crook" This is much to do about nothing >>>>Hey while you guys were building I bought a plane that was built and when your wife wasn t interested in building she was with me FLYING.................Good luck fellas >From: "Zodie Rocket" >Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Wives??? Sorry Guys I'm too dam Lucky! >Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 16:37:16 -0500 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" > >I'm sorry to say guys, my wife is much like Dawna and more. I used to >fly a lot before I met my wife, but she never knew it. We spent so much >time riding the motorcycles (that's how we met, she needed the chain >replaced on her bike, I was in the shop)all over North America that >flying just lapsed. Then came the kids and as the bikes lapsed I came >home one day and said I am going to build a plane. Of course, I got the >"are you nuts look" but she knows me all to well after 19yrs of >marriage. She had one request, when I was half way through my project >and that was to have a flight in a small plane as she has only ever been >in a large plane once. After I took her for a flight, she was at my >side, helping the build whenever needed or when she had time to spend >with me. Now comes the drawback ! The 701 I have started is hers!!!! >Like in the biking days she hates the back seat and wants the controls. >The 701 with the bubble doors is her project, she says that she wants a >plane just to toot around in and see the farms, maybe down the road add >amphibs and go fishing! Now guess who is watching the kids more!!! >My biggest concern now is how am I going to stay in formation with a >701??? Hmmm maybe next project will be an 801, I should be able to >justify that? Shouldn't I? > >Nevertheless, even with a wife that is my absolute best friend, the time >my metal mistress takes can have a toll if I get to carried away. I >devote 2 nights a week to my family and every Sunday my wife asks for, >is hers. As Chris says never, forget what is truly important! I will >add, get them drilling holes and deburring, family time can be had in >the workshop as well! > > >Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario >Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started >www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thomas >Boehmer >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas Boehmer" > >Randy - > Am I the only wife in the world who talked her husband into >building an >experimental airplane? >He was frustrated with having to book rental time several weeks in >advance, >only to have it rain that day, or be too windy. I knew we couldn't >afford >1/4 million for a new Cessna, so I talked him into building a plane. We >devoured EAA's AeroCrafter book and finally decided on an 801 (short >building time and pop rivets.) I loved the short field capacity of the >801, >but when he saw the 601XL on Zenith's video he said "I want to build >that >plane - it's sexy!" > I felt that my husband deserved to have his own airplane - flying >makes >him happy like nothing else ever has. Doesn't everyone deserve that? >Come to >think of it...I was the one who booked his first flight. We were at the >airport one day and he casually said "I always wanted to learn how to >fly." >As a surprise I booked him a discovery flight for his birthday and the >rest >is history! It had never occurred to him to sign up for flight lessons - >no >one he knew was a pilot. > We are 500 hours into the 601XL and my husband may have put in 50 >hours >working alone. It seems to take two of us to figure out the instructions >and >blue prints. He drills the holes and then says "I'm going out for a >smoke - >figure out what we do next!" Working on the plane together has been a >great >adventure. >Dawna/Cincinnati > > > >From: "Randy L. Thwing" > >Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com > >To: > >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? > >Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 08:40:48 -0800 > > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" > > > > > >How did you guys get your wives completely > >on board? > > > >This is probably the most important aspect of embarking on a >homebuilding > >project. The first thing you have to do is LAY DOWN THE LAW at home as >to > >how things are going to be. You will need the entire family savings, >most > >of the space in you house, and no other obligations on your free time, >wife > >must be on hand and available at a moments notice to de-burr thousands >of > >holes, clean up your work area, and to drive you to the emergency room. > > > >During the first couple of nights on the couch, you can review your > >strategy > >and try to figure out how you went awry.............. > > > >Regards, > > > >Randy L. Thwing, > >Las Vegas, NV > > > >Do not archive > > > > > > >-- >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >11/8/2005 > > >-- >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >11/8/2005 > > Take charge with a pop-up guard built on patented Microsoft SmartScreen Technology. Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. ________________________________ Message 69 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:14 PM PST US From: Ron Lendon Subject: Zenith-List: Use good tools --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ron Lendon Dear Listers: Don't use OutLook or any Microsoft e-mail/browser if you can help it. I use Thunderbird for e-mail and Firefox for the browser. It's free and it hasn't been attacked yet. Going on 4 years. http://www.mozilla.com/ -- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder >Dear Listers: > I Apologize for the inconvenience I have caused you. It was not >intentional. My Outlook Express picked that message to go belly up. > > > > ________________________________ Message 70 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:00 PM PST US From: Steve Hulland Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Steve Hulland Whomever said take her to the Rudder Seminar and let Roger fly her, while she also helps you build the rudder, hit the nail on the head. DO IT NOW. Really let her help. Semper Fi, Steve Hulland CH 701 Amado, AZ ________________________________ Message 71 ____________________________________ Time: 06:31:23 PM PST US From: "William J. Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary A. Boothe" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary A. Boothe" > > umm....2 horses = 2 planes. Right? > Gary- "Some assembly required". For the horses, too, when if you count fixing fences. Bill > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 72 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:03 PM PST US From: Daniel Dempsey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Corvair --> Zenith-List message posted by: Daniel Dempsey John, Others have pointed out things William Wynne has said about points versus electronic ignition. I know it's anecdotal, but what he says fits my experience in cars exactly. I was once driving my Toyota Corolla and it suddenly stopped, no warning what so ever. It wound up being a failed electronic ignition. For about 20 years I drove a number of British sports cars dating from the 50's and 60's. These cars had points. The had to be replaced fairly frequently, but you would know they needed replacing well in advance of failure. The car would become hard to start even though the engine would still run fine. I'm building a Corvair conversion for my XL and will be using the dual points system. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hines" Subject: Zenith-List: Corvair > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" > > > Guys, > > I know I am new so sorry for the flurry of questions. I am interested > in the Corvair engine for an XL project. Everything sounds good except > for the distributor using points. Is anyone using electronic ignition > on Corvairs? I know what a maintenance nightmare points can be and I > cant imagine having them in an airplane engine. Am I crazy? > > Should I be typing "Do not archive" on my stupid questions? > > John Hines > > > ________________________________ Message 73 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:37 PM PST US From: "William J. Naumuk" Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: > > It's called "Learning To Fly", Bill. I piped the live version of it into my intercom for the first test flight of my little UL a couple of years ago. Ed- Yup, that's it. Bill do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 74 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:24 PM PST US From: William Jeffries Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Apology for inconvenience --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Jeffries Randy, If you can't laugh at yourself, someone will do it for you. Things happen, "To error is human, to really screw up requires a Computer. My attempt at weak humor, Bill Jeffries. "Randy L. Thwing" wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" Dear Listers: I Apologize for the inconvenience I have caused you. It was not intentional. My Outlook Express picked that message to go belly up. The message will not leave the out box and was sent every time I changed screens. My sent items folder has been wiped clean. I have shut down that computer and am sending this from another office. Thanks to all those who emailed me to advise. Another attempt at weak humor goes bad. Humbly Yours, Randy L. Thwing, Las vegas, NV Do not Archive --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 75 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:47 PM PST US From: "Larry" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Babbage Area Ideas --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" Good so far, runs good, got 3 hours on it. Just can't seem to get the gas leaks fixed. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Babbage Area Ideas > --> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com > > In a message dated 11/8/2005 9:32:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, > lrm01@centurytel.net writes: > www.angelfire.com/un/ch701 > Larry how is that Hog engine working out? > > Bob Spudis > > Do not archive > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 76 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:15 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" Thomas Treat her good man! Ya got a good one. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Boehmer Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas Boehmer" Randy - Am I the only wife in the world who talked her husband into building an experimental airplane? He was frustrated with having to book rental time several weeks in advance, only to have it rain that day, or be too windy. I knew we couldn't afford 1/4 million for a new Cessna, so I talked him into building a plane. We devoured EAA's AeroCrafter book and finally decided on an 801 (short building time and pop rivets.) I loved the short field capacity of the 801, but when he saw the 601XL on Zenith's video he said "I want to build that plane - it's sexy!" I felt that my husband deserved to have his own airplane - flying makes him happy like nothing else ever has. Doesn't everyone deserve that? Come to think of it...I was the one who booked his first flight. We were at the airport one day and he casually said "I always wanted to learn how to fly." As a surprise I booked him a discovery flight for his birthday and the rest is history! It had never occurred to him to sign up for flight lessons - no one he knew was a pilot. We are 500 hours into the 601XL and my husband may have put in 50 hours working alone. It seems to take two of us to figure out the instructions and blue prints. He drills the holes and then says "I'm going out for a smoke - figure out what we do next!" Working on the plane together has been a great adventure. Dawna/Cincinnati >From: "Randy L. Thwing" >Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? >Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 08:40:48 -0800 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" > > >How did you guys get your wives completely >on board? > >This is probably the most important aspect of embarking on a homebuilding >project. The first thing you have to do is LAY DOWN THE LAW at home as to >how things are going to be. You will need the entire family savings, most >of the space in you house, and no other obligations on your free time, wife >must be on hand and available at a moments notice to de-burr thousands of >holes, clean up your work area, and to drive you to the emergency room. > >During the first couple of nights on the couch, you can review your >strategy >and try to figure out how you went awry.............. > >Regards, > >Randy L. Thwing, >Las Vegas, NV > >Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 77 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:18 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: kit --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" Rodney I am scratch building from a new set of new plans, but my stab was built off the old plans so I have had to contend with the movement of the attachment points as well. I decided to make my Front HT Frame of the same dimensions (well sort of) and placement as the old plans. You may want to take a look at my website especially the "HT Frame Saga" page. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds/HT_frame_problem.htm Sorry it is not more thorough, but hopefully it will help. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rodney Mills Subject: Zenith-List: kit --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rodney Mills I just received the remainder of my kit today. Looks like I will have plenty to work on over the winter. I read the list everyday and now I'm sure that I will have questions that the list members can help with. Empenage has been hanging on the wall 2 years finished. Zenith has widened the front attach mounts since built so that will have to be worked out. WW corvair conversion almost ready to run, looking for a home. I am very happy to be getting back to building. do not archive Rodney Mills 601XL / Corvair West Alabama -- Checked by AVG Free Edition. ________________________________ Message 78 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:38 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Firewall Drwg 7-F-7 --> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com Tommy, The 160mm is from the bottom of the firewall, not the bottom of 7F7-2C. The 7F7-2C should fit tight up under upper channel 7F7-1SP. Radius the 7F7-2C to fit the radius bend in the upper channel. If you look at the drawing you will see that the vertical channel 7F7-2C does not extend all the way down to the bottom of the firewall. Hope that helps Bob Spudis CH-701/912S wiring at present time ________________________________ Message 79 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:44 PM PST US From: "Richard Hutson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard Hutson" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > > WOW...Your the perfect woman! > > Of course..If I learned to ride horses I would be the perfect man for my > Wife...:) > > Frank > Do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thomas > Boehmer > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas Boehmer" > Dawna, you are slapping yourself in the face with this comment! " I felt that my husband deserved to have his own airplane - flying > makes him happy like nothing else ever has". > Dawna/Cincinnati This guy needs to go buy his wife all the tools, she needs to make building as easy as possible for her and a dozen roses!!! >> >>Do not archive >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 80 ____________________________________ Time: 11:27:12 PM PST US From: "Richard Hutson" Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: Safety / Wives??? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard Hutson" This is a great web site, period. Go watch some of his in-flight videos. > The website below 'Dan Checkoway's' has a great blurb on getting you > wife involved. > > http://www.rvproject.com/wife.html > > Do not archive > >> > Do not archive > >