---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 11/11/05: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:42 AM - Re: 6-W-6-2 Rear Rib Dimensions (kevinbonds) 2. 06:40 AM - Rivnuts (Bob Gibfried) 3. 08:10 AM - Re: 6-W-6- Tooling Holes - 601XL (N5SL) 4. 08:35 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 11/10/05 (MillrML@aol.com) 5. 09:03 AM - Re: Rivnuts (Bryan Martin) 6. 11:33 AM - Re: 6-W-6- Tooling Holes - 601XL (kevinbonds) 7. 02:44 PM - 6-W-6-2 Rear Rib missing Dimension (rlendon@comcast.net) 8. 02:58 PM - Re: 6-W-6- Tooling Holes - 601XL (rlendon@comcast.net) 9. 05:27 PM - Paint Stripping (William Jeffries) 10. 07:01 PM - Re: Paint Stripping (Ron Crook) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:25 AM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 6-W-6-2 Rear Rib Dimensions --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" Ron This part is a little confusing, but the (0,0) is some distance off the edge of the block. Seems a little strange, but you want to measure from the edge of your block at station 33.8. So in other words at stations 508.8 and 533.8 from the (0,0) point. Clear as Mud? Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rlendon@comcast.net Subject: Zenith-List: 6-W-6-2 Rear Rib Dimensions --> Zenith-List message posted by: rlendon@comcast.net Plans Builders, I am making rear rib forms and would like to use manufacturing holes in the same location as the lightening holes. There is a reference dimension in the X axis of 500 or 475 but I don't see how to tie that information back to the 0,0 of the form detail. I have also requested clarification from Zenith. The print date is 09/04 Has anyone already solved this one? -- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder Plans Builders, I am making rear rib forms and would like to use manufacturing holes in the same location as the lightening holes. There is a reference dimension in the X axis of 500 or 475 but I don't see how to tie that information back to the 0,0 of the form detail. I have also requested clarification from Zenith. The print date is 09/04 Has anyone already solved this one? -- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:35 AM PST US From: "Bob Gibfried" Subject: Zenith-List: Rivnuts --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Gibfried" Can anyone tell me how keyless rivnuts (10/32) are pulled. My rivnut setter has only a 10/28 stud and head. Thanks Bob, Wichita ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:06 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 6-W-6- Tooling Holes - 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Kevin and Ron: I would like to add to this discussion becuase it is important. This tripped me up a few years ago when I was making my rib forms. After making my ribs (and a set for somebody else) the problem became apparent when I tried to install the bell crank brackets - the dimensions didn't work. I contacted ZAC about this and they acknowledged a problem and issued a drawing update. The suggested an alternate bellcrank location as a fix. Ron, as I understand it, you are trying to establish the location of your tooling holes so you can put a bolt through the forms to hold them together. You want these holes to be the center of the lightening holes. Good idea. This is where my holes were wrong and let me tell you why. Let's get out our drawing 6-W-6. Mine is dated 2/02 and I bet yours is newer. Just under the chart there is a rib labeled "rib blank." This is the sketch that shows you where to put your holes and the reference point is important. (The third hole shows 475mm on mine but was later updated to 500mm) On my drawing it shows the reference point starting at the cutout (not at the edge of the block). Measuring from the cutout, you end up with all of your holes 10mm too far back (like mine are). You should measure from the edge of the block. If you do it wrong, the problem shows up when you try to mount your Aileron Bell Crank brackets on rib number 7 This is shown directly to the right of this "rib blank" detail. To sum it all up you don't tie these holes back to 0,0. (0,0 is used to establish the curves of the blocks). Use the edge of your form block to establish the hole locations. Better yet, draw rib number 7 first and try to locate the bellcrank brackets as shown on the drawing. If they fit between the holes, you are golden. If not, re-check everything and find the error. Good luck Ron and enjoy the experience. Scott Laughlin 601XL/Corvair http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ Installed spark plugs last night. kevinbonds wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" Ron This part is a little confusing, but the (0,0) is some distance off the edge of the block. Seems a little strange, but you want to measure from the edge of your block at station 33.8. So in other words at stations 508.8 and 533.8 from the (0,0) point. Clear as Mud? Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rlendon@comcast.net Subject: Zenith-List: 6-W-6-2 Rear Rib Dimensions --> Zenith-List message posted by: rlendon@comcast.net Plans Builders, I am making rear rib forms and would like to use manufacturing holes in the same location as the lightening holes. There is a reference dimension in the X axis of 500 or 475 but I don't see how to tie that information back to the 0,0 of the form detail. I have also requested clarification from Zenith. The print date is 09/04 Has anyone already solved this one? -- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder Plans Builders, I am making rear rib forms and would like to use manufacturing holes in the same location as the lightening holes. There is a reference dimension in the X axis of 500 or 475 but I don't see how to tie that information back to the 0,0 of the form detail. I have also requested clarification from Zenith. The print date is 09/04 Has anyone already solved this one? -- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:45 AM PST US From: MillrML@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 11/10/05 --> Zenith-List message posted by: MillrML@aol.com Matt, can not find your LOC to verify my name on list...???? Pay Pal contribution of $50, Nov. 7 Mike Miller _millrml@aol.com_ (mailto:millrml@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:03:43 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivnuts From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin You'll either need to order a 10-32 stud for your rivnut setter or get one of the low cost 10-32 rivnut or nutsert setting tools. The expendable nutsert tools from Aircraft Spruce are $5.20. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Gibfried" > > Can anyone tell me how keyless rivnuts (10/32) are pulled. My rivnut setter > has only a 10/28 stud and head. > > Thanks > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:33:02 AM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 6-W-6- Tooling Holes - 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" Ron Scott is correct. I didn't make it very clear that you do not measure from the cutout. But the edge of the block should theoretically start at 33.8mm along the centerline. Measuring for the bellcrank to check is a good idea. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N5SL Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 6-W-6- Tooling Holes - 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Kevin and Ron: I would like to add to this discussion becuase it is important. This tripped me up a few years ago when I was making my rib forms. After making my ribs (and a set for somebody else) the problem became apparent when I tried to install the bell crank brackets - the dimensions didn't work. I contacted ZAC about this and they acknowledged a problem and issued a drawing update. The suggested an alternate bellcrank location as a fix. Ron, as I understand it, you are trying to establish the location of your tooling holes so you can put a bolt through the forms to hold them together. You want these holes to be the center of the lightening holes. Good idea. This is where my holes were wrong and let me tell you why. Let's get out our drawing 6-W-6. Mine is dated 2/02 and I bet yours is newer. Just under the chart there is a rib labeled "rib blank." This is the sketch that shows you where to put your holes and the reference point is important. (The third hole shows 475mm on mine but was later updated to 500mm) On my drawing it shows the reference point starting at the cutout (not at the edge of the block). Measuring from the cutout, you end up with all of your holes 10mm too far back (like mine are). You should measure from the edge of the block. If you do it wrong, the problem shows up when you try to mount your Aileron Bell Crank brackets on rib number 7 This is shown directly to the right of this "rib blank" detail. To sum it all up you don't tie these holes back to 0,0. (0,0 is used to establish the curves of the blocks). Use the edge of your form block to establish the hole locations. Better yet, draw rib number 7 first and try to locate the bellcrank brackets as shown on the drawing. If they fit between the holes, you are golden. If not, re-check everything and find the error. Good luck Ron and enjoy the experience. Scott Laughlin 601XL/Corvair http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ Installed spark plugs last night. kevinbonds wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" Ron This part is a little confusing, but the (0,0) is some distance off the edge of the block. Seems a little strange, but you want to measure from the edge of your block at station 33.8. So in other words at stations 508.8 and 533.8 from the (0,0) point. Clear as Mud? Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rlendon@comcast.net Subject: Zenith-List: 6-W-6-2 Rear Rib Dimensions --> Zenith-List message posted by: rlendon@comcast.net Plans Builders, I am making rear rib forms and would like to use manufacturing holes in the same location as the lightening holes. There is a reference dimension in the X axis of 500 or 475 but I don't see how to tie that information back to the 0,0 of the form detail. I have also requested clarification from Zenith. The print date is 09/04 Has anyone already solved this one? -- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder Plans Builders, I am making rear rib forms and would like to use manufacturing holes in the same location as the lightening holes. There is a reference dimension in the X axis of 500 or 475 but I don't see how to tie that information back to the 0,0 of the form detail. I have also requested clarification from Zenith. The print date is 09/04 Has anyone already solved this one? -- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder --------------------------------- _- _- _- _- _- _- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:44:31 PM PST US From: rlendon@comcast.net Subject: Zenith-List: 6-W-6-2 Rear Rib missing Dimension --> Zenith-List message posted by: rlendon@comcast.net Kevin, I had your reply confirmed by Caleb at Zenith. He went out to the shop and actually measured a rib on the form. 33.8 is the missing piece of the puzzle. So for those who look for this next time it will be here in the archives. Zenith should update that print so all dimensions come from the same reference 0,0. You are correct with the 508.8 and 533.8 being the distance from 0,0. -- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" > > Ron > > This part is a little confusing, but the (0,0) is some distance off the edge > of the block. Seems a little strange, but you want to measure from the edge > of your block at station 33.8. So in other words at stations 508.8 and 533.8 > from the (0,0) point. Clear as Mud? > > Kevin Bonds > > Nashville TN > > 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. > > Empennage done; working on wings and engine. > > http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > rlendon@comcast.net > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: 6-W-6-2 Rear Rib Dimensions > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: rlendon@comcast.net > > Plans Builders, > > I am making rear rib forms and would like to use manufacturing holes in the > same location as the lightening holes. There is a reference dimension in > the X axis of 500 or 475 but I don't see how to tie that information back to > the 0,0 of the form detail. > > I have also requested clarification from Zenith. The print date is 09/04 > > Has anyone already solved this one? > -- > Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI > Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:58:06 PM PST US From: rlendon@comcast.net Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 6-W-6- Tooling Holes - 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: rlendon@comcast.net Scott, I work in the engineering environment as a guy who makes the stuff for the engineers. I am very familar the mistakes they make and when it is not crystal clear I stop and ask for clairfication. It sounds like you and Kevin both had an issue with this. I looked in the archives and found nothing. This will go in for the next guy. Caleb at Zenith went out to the shop and actually measured a rib on the form. 33.8 is the missing piece of the puzzle. So for those who look for this next time it will be here in the archives. Zenith should update that print so all dimensions come from the same reference 0,0. The correct dimensions of 508.8 not 475, and 533.8 not 500, being the distances from 0,0. -- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder > --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL > > Kevin and Ron: > > I would like to add to this discussion becuase it is important. This tripped me > up a few years ago when I was making my rib forms. After making my ribs (and a > set for somebody else) the problem became apparent when I tried to install the > bell crank brackets - the dimensions didn't work. I contacted ZAC about this and > they acknowledged a problem and issued a drawing update. The suggested an > alternate bellcrank location as a fix. > > Ron, as I understand it, you are trying to establish the location of your > tooling holes so you can put a bolt through the forms to hold them together. > You want these holes to be the center of the lightening holes. Good idea. This > is where my holes were wrong and let me tell you why. > > Let's get out our drawing 6-W-6. Mine is dated 2/02 and I bet yours is newer. > Just under the chart there is a rib labeled "rib blank." This is the sketch > that shows you where to put your holes and the reference point is important. > (The third hole shows 475mm on mine but was later updated to 500mm) On my > drawing it shows the reference point starting at the cutout (not at the edge of > the block). Measuring from the cutout, you end up with all of your holes 10mm > too far back (like mine are). You should measure from the edge of the block. > If you do it wrong, the problem shows up when you try to mount your Aileron Bell > Crank brackets on rib number 7 This is shown directly to the right of this "rib > blank" detail. > > To sum it all up you don't tie these holes back to 0,0. (0,0 is used to > establish the curves of the blocks). Use the edge of your form block to > establish the hole locations. Better yet, draw rib number 7 first and try to > locate the bellcrank brackets as shown on the drawing. If they fit between the > holes, you are golden. If not, re-check everything and find the error. > > Good luck Ron and enjoy the experience. > > Scott Laughlin > 601XL/Corvair > http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ > Installed spark plugs last night. > > kevinbonds wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" > > Ron > > This part is a little confusing, but the (0,0) is some distance off the edge > of the block. Seems a little strange, but you want to measure from the edge > of your block at station 33.8. So in other words at stations 508.8 and 533.8 > from the (0,0) point. Clear as Mud? > > Kevin Bonds > > Nashville TN > > 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. > > Empennage done; working on wings and engine. > > http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > rlendon@comcast.net > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: 6-W-6-2 Rear Rib Dimensions > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: rlendon@comcast.net > > Plans Builders, > > I am making rear rib forms and would like to use manufacturing holes in the > same location as the lightening holes. There is a reference dimension in > the X axis of 500 or 475 but I don't see how to tie that information back to > the 0,0 of the form detail. > > I have also requested clarification from Zenith. The print date is 09/04 > > Has anyone already solved this one? > -- > Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI > Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:49 PM PST US From: William Jeffries Subject: Zenith-List: Paint Stripping --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Jeffries Listers, Thanks to all that commented, as I will be getting with Grumman for greater clarifacation. Maybe I'll give Jim Bede a call and ask him what I should do. Thanks again, Bill Jeffries 601 Dreaming, going down for a test flight in September. --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:29 PM PST US From: "Ron Crook" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Paint Stripping --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Crook" Try efs 2500 from eviroteck I seen a guy strip an old cessna and u wouldn t believe the numbers just dripped to the floor and though they were on the plane and washed off with water pressure ? Not even a visual sign around revits smoooooooooooth job >From: William Jeffries >Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com >To: list >Subject: Zenith-List: Paint Stripping >Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 17:26:28 -0800 (PST) > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: William Jeffries > >Listers, > >Thanks to all that commented, as I will be getting with Grumman for greater >clarifacation. Maybe I'll give Jim Bede a call and ask him what I should >do. > >Thanks again, Bill Jeffries > > >601 Dreaming, going down for a test flight in September. > >--------------------------------- > > Powerful Parental Controls Let your child discover the best the Internet has to offer. Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*.