Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:57 AM - FW: Evans NPG+ (Jeff Hofmeister)
2. 07:00 AM - Re: FW: Evans NPG+ (Trevor Page)
3. 07:19 AM - F: Evans NPG+ (Jeff Hofmeister)
4. 08:21 AM - Re: Fuselage access door ()
5. 08:25 AM - Re: Projects or completions in SC? (Kevin Thorp)
6. 08:31 AM - Re: Slow down, take it easy. (William J. Naumuk)
7. 08:42 AM - Re: 601XL Flys 40 Hours (Al Young)
8. 09:09 AM - Re: Fuselage access door (Rick)
9. 09:48 AM - Re: Fuselage access door (Carlos Sa)
10. 11:11 AM - Re: Fuselage access door (Dan Ribb)
11. 02:55 PM - Re: Slow down, take it easy. (William J. Naumuk)
12. 03:15 PM - Re: 6-W-6-2 Rear Rib missing Dimension (Clyde D. Ehlers)
13. 03:17 PM - Re: Fuselage access door (Edward Moody II)
14. 04:28 PM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 11/10/05 (Ken Erickson)
15. 04:29 PM - Re: Fuselage access door (kevinbonds)
16. 05:09 PM - Re: Re: LOC (Carlos Sa)
17. 05:45 PM - Re: Re: LOC (Matt Dralle)
18. 07:14 PM - any form blocks for sale? (Evan Lewis)
19. 07:36 PM - Re: Fuselage access door (Rick)
20. 08:13 PM - Re: 601XL Flys 40 Hours (Kevin Thorp)
21. 09:29 PM - Rotax 912S coolant temps (MElrod3732@AOL.COM)
Message 1
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Hofmeister" <jahofmeister@chartermi.net>
Has anyone switched to Evans NPG+ waterless coolant? I switched to this
coolant on my dads 912ULS and the result was a 40* increase in operating
temperature & a smell like I was cooking Pancakes. I have found with
some research on the internet that the people that tried this with small
capacity systems like motorcycles, and in this case the 912 system,
found it did not work so well. I have now switched back to Prestone
extended life (pink) and now I am right back down in the 200* F range
again. I would like to save somebody the cost of doing this
disappointing change however; I have a fresh gallon of NPG+ if anybody
wants to purchase it at a discount.
Jeff Hofmeister
N271GH
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: FW: Evans NPG+ |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
When I started test flying my 601 earlier this year I encountered a
lot of coolant boiling problems. It seems I could just not get the
air pockets out of my system on the 912.
After much frustration I switched over to Evans NPG+ and it cured the
problem instantly. Temps are within specs and I don't worry about
things anymore. I'm certainly a believer! (That smell *is* a little
weird but I'm used to it now)
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Nov 13, 2005, at 8:53 AM, Jeff Hofmeister wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Hofmeister"
> <jahofmeister@chartermi.net>
>
> Has anyone switched to Evans NPG+ waterless coolant? I switched to
> this
> coolant on my dads 912ULS and the result was a 40* increase in
> operating
> temperature & a smell like I was cooking Pancakes. I have found with
> some research on the internet that the people that tried this with
> small
> capacity systems like motorcycles, and in this case the 912 system,
> found it did not work so well. I have now switched back to Prestone
> extended life (pink) and now I am right back down in the 200* F range
> again. I would like to save somebody the cost of doing this
> disappointing change however; I have a fresh gallon of NPG+ if anybody
> wants to purchase it at a discount.
>
> Jeff Hofmeister
>
> N271GH
>
>
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Hofmeister" <jahofmeister@chartermi.net>
Trev,
Gosh, I wish I could say the same...... I went from 200* to
240* operating temps. I tried it for a couple weeks and the results
were the same during each flight. What concerned me is outside air temp
was in the 50's so what would it be like if air temps are in the 80's &
even 90's.
Jeff Hofmeister
N272GH (yes, 271 was a fat finger)
When I started test flying my 601 earlier this year I encountered a
lot of coolant boiling problems. It seems I could just not get the
air pockets out of my system on the 912.
After much frustration I switched over to Evans NPG+ and it cured the
problem instantly. Temps are within specs and I don't worry about
things anymore. I'm certainly a believer! (That smell *is* a little
weird but I'm used to it now)
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Nov 13, 2005, at 8:53 AM, Jeff Hofmeister wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Hofmeister"
> <jahofmeister@chartermi.net>
>
> Has anyone switched to Evans NPG+ waterless coolant? I switched to
> this
> coolant on my dads 912ULS and the result was a 40* increase in
> operating
> temperature & a smell like I was cooking Pancakes. I have found with
> some research on the internet that the people that tried this with
> small
> capacity systems like motorcycles, and in this case the 912 system,
> found it did not work so well. I have now switched back to Prestone
> extended life (pink) and now I am right back down in the 200* F range
> again. I would like to save somebody the cost of doing this
> disappointing change however; I have a fresh gallon of NPG+ if anybody
> wants to purchase it at a discount.
>
> Jeff Hofmeister
>
> N271GH
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage access door |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <CLEONARD52@comcast.net>
USE A FLAT NOSE ON A HAND RIVETER. DO NOT TRY AND DIMPLE THE ALUM. YOU
WILL REALLY OPEN A CAN OF WORMS WITH THAT. IT IS A VERY STRAIGHT FOREWORD
INSTALLATION. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS CALL ZAC, THEY ARE GRAET.
----- Original Message -----
From: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Fuselage access door
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
>
> Is anyone out there installing the new bottom fuselage access door? This
> will require the first install of rivnuts that I have had to do. Anyone
have
> a good suggestion for the 3/32 rivets? They will have to be countersunk.
How
> should I do this? Dimple or the microstop, countersink method? Any
> suggestions?
>
>
> Kevin Bonds
>
> Nashville TN
>
> 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
>
> Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
>
> <http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
>
>
> do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Projects or completions in SC? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Kevin Thorp <kevin@medamation.com>
Wanna meet today?
Kevin
225-6058
cell 813-2503
Michael Gaskins wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michael Gaskins <mbgaski@winterfairy.com>
>
>I've got my plans ordered, but haven't really started construction yet.
>I'm over in Huger, SC (just outside of Mt. Pleasant). Just curious: are
>you a member of EAA Chapter 477? I've talked with Mel (the chapter
>president) and will hopefully be making it out to the next meeting.
>They seemed to be trying to drum up new members, so it might be
>something to check into.
>
>Michael Gaskins
>
>Kevin Thorp wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Kevin Thorp <kevin@medamation.com>
>>
>>Are there any projects or completions of the 601 XL (or any of the Zenith line)
within 100-200 miles of Charleston, SC?
>>
>>I checked the Zenith web site, but was told this also might be a good source.
>>
>>thanks!
>>
>>Kevin Thorp
>>Charleston, SC
>>(just got the info pack & DVD)
>>
>>do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Slow down, take it easy. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
Ron-
The phrase that occurs in my log more than anything else is "Slow down,
asshole"! (Of course, this is the log not intended for public consumption).
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: <rlendon@comcast.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Slow down, take it easy.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: rlendon@comcast.net
>
> Plans Builders,
>
> I was so excited to be starting the second rib form I got a little ahead
of myself and didn't double check my measurements before cutting.
>
> The process I used: layout grid, layout points on grid, check points
dimensions (didn't do that on rib 2), connect points (the cut line), two way
tape second board to first board, saw them out as one, grind to line, drill
mfg holes (lighting hole centers), radius edges, separate forms, grind 10
degree back draft on each board (making R & L parts).
>
> I had made rib 1 and 2 on the same day and didn't catch it till I was
getting ready to cut #3. I was going to back draft all three ribs tonight
and noticed #2's trailing edge was smaller 10mm than #1. I'm pretty sure
the flap is the symmetrical and this didn't make sense.
>
> Well I was able to save it and make it a rib 5. Now I have rib 1, 3, & 5
ready to make parts.
>
> Lesson: Measure Twice, Cut Once.
>
> --
> Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
> Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
> http://home.comcast.net/~rlendon/
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Flys 40 Hours |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" <armyret@one-eleven.net>
Bill- Congrats on the 40th hr. Can't wait to join you. Hope your wife has
a wonderful, smooth flight for her indoctrination. Regards, Al Young
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage access door |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rick" <zodie@adelphia.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Russell" <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuselage access door
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
>
> I started to use 3/32 pop rivets on the nut plates after fighting those
> tiny squeeze rivets. Much easier and since it is just holding the plate it
> is not a structural issue. jack in Los Osos, Ca ( Plane at Fresno)
Those little 3/32 pop-rivets are easy to install, but they don't hold up
well in nutplates. You'll eventually have a stubborn fastener that will
require more torque to remove than the shear strength of the pop rivet can
handle. When that happens you're pretty much stuck with trying to hold the
head of the screw with some small visegrips while you drill the head off the
screw. This is REALLY a pain with countersunk screws.
That being said, I used pop-rivets to fasten the nutplates to the fiberglass
prop spinner. Everywhere else I used the solid rivets and either squeezed
them with a rivit squeezer or peened the bucktail on the bench with a hammer
and punch.
Rick Pitcher
no Fuselage access door... yet, but it sure looks like a good idea.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage access door |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Hello, all
Can somebody tell me whether this door is part of the 601 design, or at least "blessed"
by ZAC?
Cheers
Carlos
do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage access door |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Ribb" <dan@danribb.com>
>
> Can somebody tell me whether this door is part of the 601 design, or at
> least "blessed" by ZAC?
>
The access door is on my plans dated 08/05.
Also, I have used flush Monel, steel or stainless steel 3/32" pop rivets on
nutplates, dimpled or countersunk, with excellent results and durability.
These have shear strengths as good (and sometimes exceeding) solid aluminum
rivets. I would probably not use aluminum 3/32" pop rivets for nutplates
needing repeated use like an access door.
Dan Ribb
Fresno, CA
601XL tail kit
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Slow down, take it easy. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
OOPS! I thought I was answering direct!
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Slow down, take it easy.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk"
<billn@velocity.net>
>
> Ron-
> The phrase that occurs in my log more than anything else is "Slow
down,
> asshole"! (Of course, this is the log not intended for public
consumption).
> Bill
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <rlendon@comcast.net>
> To: "Zenith List" <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Slow down, take it easy.
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: rlendon@comcast.net
> >
> > Plans Builders,
> >
> > I was so excited to be starting the second rib form I got a little ahead
> of myself and didn't double check my measurements before cutting.
> >
> > The process I used: layout grid, layout points on grid, check points
> dimensions (didn't do that on rib 2), connect points (the cut line), two
way
> tape second board to first board, saw them out as one, grind to line,
drill
> mfg holes (lighting hole centers), radius edges, separate forms, grind 10
> degree back draft on each board (making R & L parts).
> >
> > I had made rib 1 and 2 on the same day and didn't catch it till I was
> getting ready to cut #3. I was going to back draft all three ribs tonight
> and noticed #2's trailing edge was smaller 10mm than #1. I'm pretty sure
> the flap is the symmetrical and this didn't make sense.
> >
> > Well I was able to save it and make it a rib 5. Now I have rib 1, 3, &
5
> ready to make parts.
> >
> > Lesson: Measure Twice, Cut Once.
> >
> > --
> > Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
> > Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
> > http://home.comcast.net/~rlendon/
> >
> >
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 6-W-6-2 Rear Rib missing Dimension |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde D. Ehlers" <clydes-shop@bizdialup.com>
HI:List
the Menning of the nombers is the 0,0 referince of the start of the Ruler
edge used for a hirline of less then prodused by a # 2 Lead pencel that is
sharp. Best used in tenths of inch this is drafting standerdes of the fortes
and in my aircraft class In the trade school.
Clyde Ehlers Zenith CH 200/300 # 25 90% done Onley 90% of Engen &
Instuments ,Electrical Using A Corvair 1962 Spider Engen
----- Original Message -----
From: <rlendon@comcast.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: 6-W-6-2 Rear Rib missing Dimension
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: rlendon@comcast.net
>
> Kevin,
>
> I had your reply confirmed by Caleb at Zenith. He went out to the shop
and actually measured a rib on the form. 33.8 is the missing piece of the
puzzle. So for those who look for this next time it will be here in the
archives.
>
> Zenith should update that print so all dimensions come from the same
reference 0,0. You are correct with the 508.8 and 533.8 being the distance
from 0,0.
>
> --
> Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
> Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
> >
> > Ron
> >
> > This part is a little confusing, but the (0,0) is some distance off the
edge
> > of the block. Seems a little strange, but you want to measure from the
edge
> > of your block at station 33.8. So in other words at stations 508.8 and
533.8
> > from the (0,0) point. Clear as Mud?
> >
> > Kevin Bonds
> >
> > Nashville TN
> >
> > 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
> >
> > Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
> >
> > http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> > rlendon@comcast.net
> > To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Zenith-List: 6-W-6-2 Rear Rib Dimensions
> >
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: rlendon@comcast.net
> >
> > Plans Builders,
> >
> > I am making rear rib forms and would like to use manufacturing holes in
the
> > same location as the lightening holes. There is a reference dimension
in
> > the X axis of 500 or 475 but I don't see how to tie that information
back to
> > the 0,0 of the form detail.
> >
> > I have also requested clarification from Zenith. The print date is
09/04
> >
> > Has anyone already solved this one?
> > --
> > Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
> > Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
> >
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage access door |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Reduce the sheer load on your nutplates with Boelube. I found out about it
while helping a friend build an RV7. I believe you can find how to get it on
the Vans site. It was developed by Boeing and is a waxy substance that you
smear on the bolt before screwing it in to the nutplate. Works great. And
no, it doesn't make the bolt more likely to come off inflight. Also don't
lose a lot of sleep about sheering the pulled rivets that hold your
nutplates.... not gonna happen.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Ribb" <dan@danribb.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuselage access door
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Ribb" <dan@danribb.com>
>
>>
>> Can somebody tell me whether this door is part of the 601 design, or at
>> least "blessed" by ZAC?
>>
>
> The access door is on my plans dated 08/05.
>
> Also, I have used flush Monel, steel or stainless steel 3/32" pop rivets
> on
> nutplates, dimpled or countersunk, with excellent results and durability.
> These have shear strengths as good (and sometimes exceeding) solid
> aluminum
> rivets. I would probably not use aluminum 3/32" pop rivets for nutplates
> needing repeated use like an access door.
>
> Dan Ribb
> Fresno, CA
> 601XL tail kit
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 11/10/05 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ken Erickson" <erickson.ken@comcast.net>
LOC??
----- Original Message -----
From: MillrML@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 10:35 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 11/10/05
--> Zenith-List message posted by: MillrML@aol.com
Matt,
can not find your LOC to verify my name on list...????
Pay Pal contribution of $50, Nov. 7
Mike Miller
_millrml@aol.com_ (mailto:millrml@aol.com)
Message 15
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| Subject: | Fuselage access door |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Carlos
The access door is in the new set of plans dated 02/05 along with the change
in the bottom skin to .025.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuselage access door
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Hello, all
Can somebody tell me whether this door is part of the 601 design, or at
least "blessed" by ZAC?
Cheers
Carlos
do not archive
Message 16
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
List of contributors
do not archive
--- Ken Erickson <erickson.ken@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ken Erickson" <erickson.ken@comcast.net>
>
> LOC??
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: MillrML@aol.com
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 10:35 AM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 11/10/05
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: MillrML@aol.com
>
> Matt,
> can not find your LOC to verify my name on list...????
>
> Pay Pal contribution of $50, Nov. 7
>
> Mike Miller
>
> _millrml@aol.com_ (mailto:millrml@aol.com)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: MillrML@aol.com
>
> Matt,
> Can not find your LOC to verify my name on list...????
>
> Pay Pal contribution of $50, Nov. 7
>
> Mike Miller
>
> _millrml@aol.com_ (mailto:millrml@aol.com)
>
Mike,
The LOC (List of Contributors) will be published only once at the end
of the Fund Raiser, around December 1st. And yes, I did receive your
Contribution on:
"11/04/05 16:15:37 PM Michael Miller $50 PayPal Kitlog Pro".
Thank you for the Contribution to support the Lists. It is very much
appreciated!!
Matt Dralle
List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 18
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| Subject: | any form blocks for sale? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Evan Lewis <elewis12@shaw.ca>
Would any finished plans builder want to sell his form blocks (ribs, etc)
elewis12@shaw.ca
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage access door |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rick" <zodie@adelphia.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuselage access door
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
>
> Reduce the sheer load on your nutplates with Boelube. I found out about it
> while helping a friend build an RV7. I believe you can find how to get it
> on
> the Vans site. It was developed by Boeing and is a waxy substance that you
> smear on the bolt before screwing it in to the nutplate. Works great. And
> no, it doesn't make the bolt more likely to come off inflight. Also don't
> lose a lot of sleep about sheering the pulled rivets that hold your
> nutplates.... not gonna happen.
>
> Ed
That Boelube is great stuff. We used it at Northrop frequently for
drill-lube and for fastener installations. At Lockheed we used beeswax for
the same effect, mostly on the all-titanium SR71. Talk about wearing out
drill bits in a hurry!!!
And the monel, titanium, or stainless "blind-fasteners" (we never call them
"POP-rivets") are a MUCH better choice than the soft aluminum pop-rivets (I
used monel blind fasteners on my fiberglass spinner).
But after drilling out hundreds of fasteners from spun nutplates over the
past 35 years, I'd still use solid rivets wherever possible.
Just my preference from personal experience,
Rick P.
N601ZR
CH601HD, with some HDS outer wing-panels planned for this winter's "spare
time" project... if I can find some "spare time".
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Flys 40 Hours |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Kevin Thorp <kevin@medamation.com>
Bill,
How did the Mrs. like her flight in your XL? Do you have any photos of
your plane?
JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
>
>Dear Thread Builder and Flying Friends, I want to let all you fine folks know
>that my 'baby' completed her 40th hour this pm. It felt great to leap over
>another flying hurtle. And because of some of you and your discussions and
>assistance it was made possible, I appreciate your interest and help, I owe you
>folks a bunch.Taking the Wife up in the morning, Hope she's ready for it. Best
>regards, Bill of Georgia N505WP 601XL-3300w/DC
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Rotax 912S coolant temps |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: MElrod3732@aol.com
Hello fellow builders: I am starting to program my Grand Rapids EIS for my
Rotax 912S and was wondering what temperature range to use for the coolant.
To my amazement, the Rotax operators manual does not even give a max temp for
the coolant.
Thanks in advance,
Mike Elrod 701 95% complete
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