Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:00 AM - Re: Rotax 912S coolant temps (Richard McLachlan)
2. 12:14 AM - Comments... (Matt Dralle)
3. 12:23 AM - Coolant temp and NPG+ (Grant Corriveau)
4. 04:28 AM - Re: Coolant temp and NPG+ (Trevor Page)
5. 05:56 AM - Re: Fuselage access door (Rodney Mills)
6. 06:32 AM - Little solid rivets PLUS I'm back to work onn N601WR (Gig Giacona)
7. 07:07 AM - Re: any form blocks for sale? (Larry McFarland)
8. 07:15 AM - Announcement: Zenair 601XL Private Pilot Course (jim)
9. 07:45 AM - Re: Little solid rivets PLUS I'm back to work onn N601WR (Rick)
10. 11:45 AM - auto pilot servo placements (john butterfield)
11. 11:57 AM - Custom cowl and radiator combination (Ron &Phyliss)
12. 12:46 PM - Re: auto pilot servo placements (Mike Fothergill)
13. 01:04 PM - Re: auto pilot servo placements (Craig Payne)
14. 04:22 PM - Re: Coolant temp and NPG+ (Mike Sinclair)
15. 05:34 PM - Re: auto pilot servo placements (Mike Fothergill)
16. 07:00 PM - Primingarchermj@swbell.net (Matt & Jo)
17. 07:36 PM - any ch701 form blocks for sale (Evan Lewis)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912S coolant temps |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard McLachlan" <richard@rodsley.net>
Mine runs from a minimum after warm up of approx 80 deg C on a long descent
to a max of 115 deg C on a climb on a hot day. We use 50% water glycol mix.
----- Original Message -----
From: <MElrod3732@aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Rotax 912S coolant temps
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: MElrod3732@aol.com
>
> Hello fellow builders: I am starting to program my Grand Rapids EIS for my
> Rotax 912S and was wondering what temperature range to use for the
coolant.
> To my amazement, the Rotax operators manual does not even give a max temp
for
> the coolant.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Mike Elrod 701 95% complete
>
>
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
I'd like say thank you to everyone that has already made a Contribution during
this year's List Fund Raiser! If you haven't made your List Contribution yet,
please show your support for these valuable services. Since there's no advertising
or other forms of direct commercialism on these forums, its solely YOUR
GENEROSITY that keeps them running!!
Members have continued to include some very nice comments along with their Contributions
this year. Please take a minute to read over some of the thoughts your
fellow Listers have expressed regarding the Lists and what they mean to them.
What do the Lists mean to you...?
Please make a Contribution to support the Lists here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin
==================== What Listers Are Saying - Vol II ====================
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==================== What Listers Are Saying - Vol II ====================
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Coolant temp and NPG+ |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
> Has anyone switched to Evans NPG+ waterless coolant?...
-------
> Hello fellow builders: I am starting to program my Grand Rapids EIS for my
> Rotax 912S and was wondering what temperature range to use for the coolant.
> To my amazement, the Rotax operators manual does not even give a max temp for
...
Have you guys checked the Rotax Notams (available on their websites)
regarding NPG+ coolant? Some models of Rotax now require its use. Coolant
temp and CHT limits are specified there as I recall.
Also, what's the problem with coolant temps of 240F after switching to NPG+?
The boiling point of this stuff is well over 300F as I recall. All the
concerns about coolant staying below 210-220 have to do with the boiling
temp of water with previous coolant mixtures, don't they?
Curious
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Coolant temp and NPG+ |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
Grant, the boiling temp of NPG+ is 375F!! I monitor my coolant
temps but I don't rely or worry about them. The hottest I've seen it
go is 182F, the norm being 169-180 depending on outside temps. My
CHTs (more important) run 230-260 on front-rear.
For me the Evans has cured my boiling problem of plain 50/50 glycol
mixtures and stabilized my temps across the board. The only
discrepancy I have is my engine being older has the oil temps being
read by the front oil banjo bolt location on the bottom of the engine
which reads a bit higher since the oil has circulated in the heads.
Newer engines read the oil temps at the oil pump after going through
the cooling rad. My oil runs 245F on hot days, recently they've been
220 or so. If it gets colder I'll have to tape off the rad a bit.
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Nov 14, 2005, at 3:19 AM, Grant Corriveau wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau
> <grantc@ca.inter.net>
>
>> Has anyone switched to Evans NPG+ waterless coolant?...
> -------
>> Hello fellow builders: I am starting to program my Grand Rapids
>> EIS for my
>> Rotax 912S and was wondering what temperature range to use for
>> the coolant.
>> To my amazement, the Rotax operators manual does not even give a
>> max temp for
> ...
>
> Have you guys checked the Rotax Notams (available on their websites)
> regarding NPG+ coolant? Some models of Rotax now require its use.
> Coolant
> temp and CHT limits are specified there as I recall.
>
> Also, what's the problem with coolant temps of 240F after switching
> to NPG+?
> The boiling point of this stuff is well over 300F as I recall. All
> the
> concerns about coolant staying below 210-220 have to do with the
> boiling
> temp of water with previous coolant mixtures, don't they?
>
> Curious
> --
> Grant Corriveau
> C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage access door |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rodney Mills <Ramills@charter.net>
>
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
>
>Hello, all
>
>Can somebody tell me whether this door is part of the 601 design, or at least
"blessed"
>by ZAC?
>
>Cheers
>
>Carlos
>do not archive
>
>
>
>
>I recieved my 601XL kit last week and the access door was included from Zenith.
>
Rodney Mills
601XL/corvair
do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Message 6
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"Zenith-List Digest List" <zenith-list-digest@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Little solid rivets PLUS I'm back to work onn N601WR |
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
>
> Time: 09:09:23 AM PST US
> From: "Rick" <zodie@adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuselage access door
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rick" <zodie@adelphia.net>
>
> Those little 3/32 pop-rivets are easy to install, but they don't hold up
> well in nutplates. You'll eventually have a stubborn fastener that will
> require more torque to remove than the shear strength of the pop rivet can
> handle. When that happens you're pretty much stuck with trying to hold the
> head of the screw with some small visegrips while you drill the head off
> the
> screw. This is REALLY a pain with countersunk screws.
> That being said, I used pop-rivets to fasten the nutplates to the
> fiberglass
> prop spinner. Everywhere else I used the solid rivets and either squeezed
> them with a rivit squeezer or peened the bucktail on the bench with a
> hammer
> and punch.
>
Do you have a dealer and part number for the rivet squeezer you used. I put
off doing the ones in the wing but will have to do it sooner or later and
haven't a clue has to how the solid rivets are done.
GigG
P.S. Well, after a year of not working very much on my plane I got back on
to it over the last week. I had hit a wall on the forward fuselage and was
stupmed until I downloaded ALL of the new photo manuals and went back over
everything I'd done.
I figured out the errors I'd made, ordered new forward fuse skins and am
back in the hunt. BTW you guys who are just now getting kit parts don't know
how lucky you are the pre drilled holes in the skins really help.
I'll have some new pics on my website www.peoamerica.net/N601WR before the
end of the day.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: any form blocks for sale? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
What model aircraft you looking for Evan?
Larry McFarland
do not archive
Evan Lewis wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Evan Lewis <elewis12@shaw.ca>
>
>Would any finished plans builder want to sell his form blocks (ribs, etc)
>
>elewis12@shaw.ca
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Announcement: Zenair 601XL Private Pilot Course |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jim" <jim@pellien.com>
All,
Previously I had announced to this group our 1-Week Sport Pilot Course at the at
the Sky Bryce Airport in the Bryce Mountain Resort of BASYE, VA. Some customers
have indicated that they would like to go straight for their Private Pilot
certificate in an immersive, accellerated fashion, rather than first getting
their Sport Pilot ticket.
As a result of this customer feedback, MASPL is now offering a 16 day Private Pilot
immersive course at Sky Bryce for $8490 (includes King ground school and
practical flight school DVD's, 40 hours of aircraft time, 25 with an instructor
and 15 solo, MASPL's Ground School Plus, private or semi-private instructor,
16 days lodging and practical test). In other words we give you the minimum
FAA requirements (except we give you 25 flight hours with an instructor instead
of the fAA minimum of 20) for the PP license. If you need extra days or hours
to get sufficient proficiency to receive a sign-off for your FAA checkride,
the cost is $100 per night lodging and $110 per extra flight hour with instructor
or $70 solo (wet).
The 1-week Sport Pilot course costs $4290.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
jim@sportsplanes.com
Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Little solid rivets PLUS I'm back to work onn N601WR |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rick" <zodie@adelphia.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
>> Those little 3/32 pop-rivets are easy to install, but they don't hold up
>> well in nutplates. You'll eventually have a stubborn fastener that will
>> require more torque to remove than the shear strength of the pop rivet
>> can
>> handle. When that happens you're pretty much stuck with trying to hold
>> the
>> head of the screw with some small visegrips while you drill the head off
>> the
>> screw. This is REALLY a pain with countersunk screws.
>> That being said, I used pop-rivets to fasten the nutplates to the
>> fiberglass
>> prop spinner. Everywhere else I used the solid rivets and either squeezed
>> them with a rivit squeezer or peened the bucktail on the bench with a
>> hammer
>> and punch.
>>
>
> Do you have a dealer and part number for the rivet squeezer you used. I
> put
> off doing the ones in the wing but will have to do it sooner or later and
> haven't a clue has to how the solid rivets are done.
>
> GigG
I bought mine for a couple of bucks at a surplus sale 20-some years ago when
Lockheed was winding down the L-1011 production. Aircraft Spruce has them
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/handrivetsqueezer.php for $135
but I can't tell if includes the yoke or not. You'll also need a couple of
the flat squeezer sets and MAYBE a dimpler set or two.
If you're an EAA member, ask around at the next meeting. I'll bet someone
has one they'll loan you.
Rick P.
Message 10
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| Subject: | auto pilot servo placements |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
hi list
I am working on my fuse and intend to install both
directional and altitude hold auto pilots. i plan to
use Trio plus their alt hold.
does anyone have any suggestions as to my choice and
more importantly, does anyone have any comments,
recomendatons, and pictures of the installation of the
servo's.
regards
john butterfield
601XL
Message 11
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| Subject: | Custom cowl and radiator combination |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron &Phyliss" <rgdplg@radiowire.net>
We are looking for builders that may be considering the 1300cc Suzuki engine for
the CH-601 or CH-701. If there appears to be enough interest, a custom combination
of cowl and radiator may be designed and tested. There are several CH-701s
using the standard cowl and same radiator design with the Suzuki engine.
It is possible the existing radiators may need to be somewhat larger to accommodate
hot weather and high altitude operations, therefore, the custom combination
for the above mentioned aircraft.
If you have any interest at all, please e-mail Eddie at:
techwelding@comcast.net
Ron Dallmeyer
CH-701
Bonnots Mill, MO
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: auto pilot servo placements |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill@sympatico.ca>
Hi John;
You failed to mention which model of airplane it is. I have the Trio AP
and AH on my CH-601HDS and I do have some photos that may help.
Mike
UHS Spinners
john butterfield wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
>
> hi list
>
> I am working on my fuse and intend to install both
> directional and altitude hold auto pilots. i plan to
> use Trio plus their alt hold.
>
> does anyone have any suggestions as to my choice and
> more importantly, does anyone have any comments,
> recomendatons, and pictures of the installation of the
> servo's.
>
> regards
> john butterfield
> 601XL
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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Received-SPF: none (mgr1.xmission.com: 166.70.39.121 is neither permitted nor denied
by domain of craigandjean.com) client-ip=166.70.39.121; envelope-from=craig@craigandjean.com;
helo=TheTCCraig;
| Subject: | auto pilot servo placements |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
If he isn't I am (assuming the HDS is not too different than the XL behind
the seat). I have the Trio AP and am saving room for the AH. Have you flown
with them yet?
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Fothergill
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: auto pilot servo placements
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill
--> <mfothergill@sympatico.ca>
Hi John;
You failed to mention which model of airplane it is. I have the Trio AP and
AH on my CH-601HDS and I do have some photos that may help.
Mike
UHS Spinners
john butterfield wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield
> --> <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
>
> hi list
>
> I am working on my fuse and intend to install both directional and
> altitude hold auto pilots. i plan to use Trio plus their alt hold.
>
> does anyone have any suggestions as to my choice and more importantly,
> does anyone have any comments, recomendatons, and pictures of the
> installation of the servo's.
>
> regards
> john butterfield
> 601XL
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Coolant temp and NPG+ |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair@att.net>
I've had some concerns about this as well, especially since I just bought
a new 912S that had a label on the reservoir saying not to use any water
in the system and to use only the Evans coolant. Phil Lockwood told me 3
weeks ago that either 50/50 or Evans could be used, so to confirm I called
him back today. He told me that it wasn't a warranty issue and that either
could be used. The main thing to watch out for is that with 50/50, the
temperature should not exceed 248f. If it does then the system should be
drained and the coolant replaced with the Evans. My 912UL typically ran
around 210 on both the oil and coolent temps and since the 912ULS tends to
run hotter, along with the expected higher temps from the Evans, I'm going
to first try the 50/50. I'm also installing a different oil cooler bought
from Lockwood, that Phil says should lower the oil temp about 20 degrees,
and therefore the coolant temp should be a little lower also. The new oil
cooler will require a modification to the lower cowl, but fiberglass is
pretty easy to work. If anyone on the list has had other experiences along
these lines I would sure be interested in hearing them. I'm probably 1-2
months from an engine start, so still have time to change my mind. And to
do a little more research! If I do continue on this path I will post
results.
Mike Sinclair N701TD
Trevor Page wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
>
> Grant, the boiling temp of NPG+ is 375F!! I monitor my coolant
> temps but I don't rely or worry about them. The hottest I've seen it
> go is 182F, the norm being 169-180 depending on outside temps. My
> CHTs (more important) run 230-260 on front-rear.
>
> For me the Evans has cured my boiling problem of plain 50/50 glycol
> mixtures and stabilized my temps across the board. The only
> discrepancy I have is my engine being older has the oil temps being
> read by the front oil banjo bolt location on the bottom of the engine
> which reads a bit higher since the oil has circulated in the heads.
> Newer engines read the oil temps at the oil pump after going through
> the cooling rad. My oil runs 245F on hot days, recently they've been
> 220 or so. If it gets colder I'll have to tape off the rad a bit.
>
> Trev Page
> C-IDUS 601HD R912
>
> On Nov 14, 2005, at 3:19 AM, Grant Corriveau wrote:
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau
> > <grantc@ca.inter.net>
> >
> >> Has anyone switched to Evans NPG+ waterless coolant?...
> > -------
> >> Hello fellow builders: I am starting to program my Grand Rapids
> >> EIS for my
> >> Rotax 912S and was wondering what temperature range to use for
> >> the coolant.
> >> To my amazement, the Rotax operators manual does not even give a
> >> max temp for
> > ...
> >
> > Have you guys checked the Rotax Notams (available on their websites)
> > regarding NPG+ coolant? Some models of Rotax now require its use.
> > Coolant
> > temp and CHT limits are specified there as I recall.
> >
> > Also, what's the problem with coolant temps of 240F after switching
> > to NPG+?
> > The boiling point of this stuff is well over 300F as I recall. All
> > the
> > concerns about coolant staying below 210-220 have to do with the
> > boiling
> > temp of water with previous coolant mixtures, don't they?
> >
> > Curious
> > --
> > Grant Corriveau
> > C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
> >
> >
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: auto pilot servo placements |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill@sympatico.ca>
Hi Craig;
Yes, I have flown with them. I am sending a pic direct.
Mike
Craig Payne wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> If he isn't I am (assuming the HDS is not too different than the XL behind
> the seat). I have the Trio AP and am saving room for the AH. Have you flown
> with them yet?
>
> -- Craig
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Fothergill
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: auto pilot servo placements
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill
> --> <mfothergill@sympatico.ca>
>
> Hi John;
> You failed to mention which model of airplane it is. I have the Trio AP and
> AH on my CH-601HDS and I do have some photos that may help.
> Mike
> UHS Spinners
>
> john butterfield wrote:
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield
>>--> <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
>>
>>hi list
>>
>>I am working on my fuse and intend to install both directional and
>>altitude hold auto pilots. i plan to use Trio plus their alt hold.
>>
>>does anyone have any suggestions as to my choice and more importantly,
>>does anyone have any comments, recomendatons, and pictures of the
>>installation of the servo's.
>>
>>regards
>>john butterfield
>>601XL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt & Jo" <archermj@swbell.net>
Fumes are a concern. You want to wear protective equipment. I do it in the
garage with a respirator and keep the garage door open. I wouldn't want to
do it in the house. My wife has a great sense of humor, but this may tip
the scales. Definitely want to turn off the furnace. I sprayed some last
winter. I waited for a fairly warm day and heated up the garage. Then
opened the door. When done, and the fumes cleared, I closed it back up.
Seemed to work ok.
There is another option I am thinking about. AFS at
http://www.aircraftfinishing.com/ has a waterborne product that looks
promising. I ordered a quart of primer and a quart of finish to do the
interior. I figure if I like it, I will paint the outside with it. They
suggest an acid etch and then their primer. I think it may be fine. And a
lot healthier. This stuff is kind of expensive. But you know every I try
to save a couple of bucks I seem to pay for it later. This is not a project
for the faint of heart or wallet.
Good luck
Matt
www.zodiacxl.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuselage access door
> How are the fumes (I'll be needing to do priming indoors in winter)? Any
> health hazards? I suppose I would have to shut off my furnace during the
> actual priming to keep from blowing myself up?
>
> Thanks,
> Dave
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt & Jo [mailto:archermj@swbell.net]
> Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 7:30 PM
> To: Dave VanLanen
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuselage access door
>
> Variprime is made by Dupont. It is a self etching primer. I use a HVLP
> gun
>
> and the over spray is very reduced. I just clean the AL with lacquer
> thinner and spray. Seems to work well. It is a two part primer. 1 to 1
> mix with the primer and activator/acid. Check with your local auto paint
> store. It is dry to the touch in about 15 minutes. Usually wait
> overnight
> to assemble.
>
> Good luck
>
> Matt
> www.zodiacxl.com
> -List: Fuselage access door
>
>
>> Matt,
>>
>> Nice looking work!
>>
>> What is "variprime"? I have been thinking about using zinc oxide, and
>> brushing it on so I don't need to worry about overspray in my shop, but I
>> have not heard about variprime.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dave
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | any ch701 form blocks for sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Evan Lewis <elewis12@shaw.ca>
Just a clarification on my early post
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