Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:51 AM - 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. (Craig Payne)
2. 03:01 AM - Re: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. (Rico Voss)
3. 05:53 AM - Re: 1776G First Flight (Garrou, Douglas)
4. 06:28 AM - Re: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. (N5SL)
5. 06:49 AM - Re: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. (Phil Maxson)
6. 07:56 AM - Re: Good deal on rivets ()
7. 08:03 AM - Re: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. (Gary Gower)
8. 08:09 AM - Re: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
9. 08:10 AM - Re: Good deal on rivets ()
10. 08:31 AM - Sealing gaps (doug kandle)
11. 08:54 AM - Re: story of my life (Carlos Sa)
12. 08:59 AM - Re: Sealing gaps (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
13. 09:21 AM - Re: Sealing gaps (Gary Gower)
14. 10:21 AM - He Said, She Said... (dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle))
15. 11:33 AM - Up and away 1776G (tinerj@tinerj.com)
16. 02:55 PM - Re: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. (Craig Payne)
17. 03:03 PM - Re: Good deal on rivets (William J. Naumuk)
18. 03:13 PM - Re: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. (Craig Payne)
19. 03:38 PM - Re: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. (Dan Ribb)
20. 03:49 PM - Re: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. (Al Young)
21. 03:57 PM - Re: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
22. 04:43 PM - Re: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. (Craig Payne)
23. 04:53 PM - Re: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. (Craig Payne)
24. 05:30 PM - Re: Good deal on rivets (William J. Naumuk)
25. 06:02 PM - Re: Good deal on rivets (Dan Ribb)
26. 07:39 PM - Re: Good deal on rivets (ron dewees)
27. 09:09 PM - Re: First flight 1776G (Gary Liming)
Message 1
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by domain of craigandjean.com) client-ip=166.70.39.121; envelope-from=craig@craigandjean.com;
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| Subject: | 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
My XL kit is a third-hand, 80% complete project that dates from about 2000.
In looking at pictures of other XL's I see that the fuselage skins typically
extend about 2 inches forward from the firewall:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_21_05_Valve_Covers.JPG
William Wynne's XL appears to built the same way:
http://homepage.mac.com/csteiner/PhotoAlbum8.html, IMG_0648
In mine the skins stop flush with the firewall. Did the original builder of
my plane get it wrong, has the design changed or is this a customization by
some builders?
-- Craig
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rico Voss <vozzen@yahoo.com>
Craig--
My plans of the same vintage ('01) call for an overhang of
70 from the rivet-line (60 in front of the firewall). And
I haven't seen any change, or other customizations.
Sounds like he either blew it, or had another idea. Looks
like you'll need to put your cowl into the firewall flange,
or extend the skins with a strap of some sort.
Rico
do not archive
> In mine the skins stop flush with the firewall. Did the
> original builder of
> my plane get it wrong, has the design changed or is this
> a customization by
> some builders?
>
> -- Craig
>
__________________________________
Message 3
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| Subject: | 1776G First Flight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" <dgarrou@hunton.com>
Congratulations Gary! Allow me to echo the sentiment expressed by others, your
web site has been an inspiration (and source of much information) to us during
our own build. And five years isn't so long.... :)
Doug Garrou
Project 801
www.garrou.com
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Craig:
I think you have a unique machine. It's not a
deal-breaker, but it may require some creative cowl
work.
The overhang is in my plans from 2003.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
--- Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
> <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> My XL kit is a third-hand, 80% complete project that
> dates from about 2000.
> In looking at pictures of other XL's I see that the
> fuselage skins typically
> extend about 2 inches forward from the firewall:
>
>
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_21_05_Valve_Covers.JPG
>
> William Wynne's XL appears to built the same way:
>
> http://homepage.mac.com/csteiner/PhotoAlbum8.html,
> IMG_0648
>
> In mine the skins stop flush with the firewall. Did
> the original builder of
> my plane get it wrong, has the design changed or is
> this a customization by
> some builders?
>
> -- Craig
>
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
> www.buildersbooks.com,
> Admin.
> _->
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax@hotmail.com>
I just cut my skins in prep for the William Wynne style cowling for the
corvair. I cut them at 70 mm past the rivet line in the firewall. If you
lay out a couple of 70mm points with a pen and then connect the dots with
some masking tape you can make a nice smooth line.
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey.
>From: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall.
>Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 06:27:58 -0800 (PST)
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
>
>Craig:
>
>I think you have a unique machine. It's not a
>deal-breaker, but it may require some creative cowl
>work.
>
>The overhang is in my plans from 2003.
>
>Scott Laughlin
>www.cooknwithgas.com
>
>
>--- Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com> wrote:
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
> > <craig@craigandjean.com>
> >
> > My XL kit is a third-hand, 80% complete project that
> > dates from about 2000.
> > In looking at pictures of other XL's I see that the
> > fuselage skins typically
> > extend about 2 inches forward from the firewall:
> >
> >
>http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_21_05_Valve_Covers.JPG
> >
> > William Wynne's XL appears to built the same way:
> >
> > http://homepage.mac.com/csteiner/PhotoAlbum8.html,
> > IMG_0648
> >
> > In mine the skins stop flush with the firewall. Did
> > the original builder of
> > my plane get it wrong, has the design changed or is
> > this a customization by
> > some builders?
> >
> > -- Craig
> >
> >
> >
> > Click on
> > about
> > provided
> > www.buildersbooks.com,
> > Admin.
> > _->
> > browse
> > Subscriptions page,
> > FAQ,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>__________________________________
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Good deal on rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
I don't know. Next time I go, I'll get fuller information and post it.
Paul Rodriguez
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Jean-Paul Roy<mailto:jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Good deal on rivets
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca<mailto:jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>>
Paul, do they have a web site? Searched with no results.
Jean-Paul
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: <PAULROD36@msn.com<mailto:PAULROD36@msn.com>>
To: <zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Good deal on rivets
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com<mailto:PAULROD36@msn.com>>
>
> Another good source I've discovered is B&B Aircraft Supply, in Gardner KS.
They sell for $4.95 per hundred.
>
> Paul Rodriguez
> 601XL/Corvair
> Still on the fuselage
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Gibfried<mailto:rfg842@cox.net<mailto:rfg842@cox.net>>
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>>
> Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 9:14 AM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Good deal on rivets
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Gibfried"
<rfg842@cox.net<mailto:rfg842@cox.net<mailto:rfg842@cox.net<mailto:rfg842@cox.net>>>
>
> Thought I'd pass on a good source for rivets. Midwest Fastener Supply.,
> Mulvane, Kansas. Furnishes fasteners to most of the local, Wichita
> aircraft manufacturers. I've found that their rivets are from 2 to 4
cents
> cheaper than Wicks or Aircraft Spruce per rivet. Five dollar minimum
order
> and fast service. Email Ana at
www.midwestfastener.com<http://www.midwestfastener.com/<http://www.midwestfastener.com<http://www.midwestfastener.com/>> for a quote.
>
> Bob, Wichita
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Hi Craig,
The big problem I see here, is to find out how many other mistakes the project
could have with 3 diferent owners, at least this one is in front of your eyes...
You have to study very well your plans and your plane, to be sure about it.
Hope is welll built, in every case, have fun and have patience, you will be
happy when you finish.
Remeber to let know the factory (Zenith Aircraft Co) about your new ownership
(serial Number), also check the list archives and of course, keep in touch with
all of us..
Saludos
Gary Gower
Rico Voss <vozzen@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rico Voss
Craig--
My plans of the same vintage ('01) call for an overhang of
70 from the rivet-line (60 in front of the firewall). And
I haven't seen any change, or other customizations.
Sounds like he either blew it, or had another idea. Looks
like you'll need to put your cowl into the firewall flange,
or extend the skins with a strap of some sort.
Rico
do not archive
> In mine the skins stop flush with the firewall. Did the
> original builder of
> my plane get it wrong, has the design changed or is this
> a customization by
> some builders?
>
> -- Craig
>
__________________________________
---------------------------------
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Craig, you may be correct. The earlier ZAC FWF kit had a double clam shell
cowl that fit under the side and top skins at the rear, while the Jabiru FWF
kit has it on the outside. I am not sure how the ZAC inside attached, but the
Jab cowl bottom has four tabs that extend from the side skins with nut plates
riveted for screws while the top cowl has two camlocs. If you used an overlap
cowl (Jab) you should have no problem making and riveting "L" shaped brackets to
the firewall to attack nut plates to just like skins. On the other hand with
the ZAC under lap you might have to make more radical mods to attach. FWIW,
Best regards and happy Thanksgiving, Bill
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Good deal on rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
Yup, story of my life. In a traffic jam, when I cut over to the lane that's moving,
it stops.
When I desperately need to write something down, the pen's out of ink.
Carefully measure something, then find out the tape measure shifted an inch the
wrong way.
Power always goes out just before I hit "save".
The wind only shifts while I'm on final.
And every time I think I've hit upon a good deal, somebody knows of a better one.
AAAAARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!
Paul Rodriguez
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: William J. Naumuk<mailto:billn@velocity.net>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Good deal on rivets
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net<mailto:billn@velocity.net>>
Paul-
The most expensive A4 from ACS is 4.50/hundred, and long A5s are the
same price. Does B+B pay shipping, or am I missing something?
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: <PAULROD36@msn.com<mailto:PAULROD36@msn.com>>
To: <zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Good deal on rivets
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com<mailto:PAULROD36@msn.com>>
>
> Another good source I've discovered is B&B Aircraft Supply, in Gardner KS.
They sell for $4.95 per hundred.
>
> Paul Rodriguez
> 601XL/Corvair
> Still on the fuselage
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Gibfried<mailto:rfg842@cox.net<mailto:rfg842@cox.net>>
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>>
> Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 9:14 AM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Good deal on rivets
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Gibfried"
<rfg842@cox.net<mailto:rfg842@cox.net<mailto:rfg842@cox.net<mailto:rfg842@cox.net>>>
>
> Thought I'd pass on a good source for rivets. Midwest Fastener Supply.,
> Mulvane, Kansas. Furnishes fasteners to most of the local, Wichita
> aircraft manufacturers. I've found that their rivets are from 2 to 4
cents
> cheaper than Wicks or Aircraft Spruce per rivet. Five dollar minimum
order
> and fast service. Email Ana at
www.midwestfastener.com<http://www.midwestfastener.com/<http://www.midwestfastener.com<http://www.midwestfastener.com/>> for a quote.
>
> Bob, Wichita
>
>
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: doug kandle <d_kandle@velocitus.net>
I would like to seal up some of the small openings in parts of my
701. I live in an area with bugs that build nests in planes if they
can get into small cracks. I was thinking of using RTV around places
like the strut bracket opening into the wing. I've heard that some
silicone based products are not aluminum friendly. Is RTV, or
something like it, OK to use to seal these areas?
Doug Kandle
CH701
Boise ID
Rudder & Horiz. Stab. done Working on Wings
From complete kit
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: story of my life |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
I thought it only happened to me... :o)
The pen out of ink happened to me last week - I actually wrote *without* ink,
then had to use James Bond techniques to figure what I had written...
Carlos
do not archive
PAULROD36@msn.com wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by:
Yup, story of my life. In a traffic jam, when I cut over to the lane that's moving,
it stops.
When I desperately need to write something down, the pen's out of ink.
Carefully measure something, then find out the tape measure shifted an inch the
wrong way.
Power always goes out just before I hit "save".
The wind only shifts while I'm on final.
And every time I think I've hit upon a good deal, somebody knows of a better one.
AAAAARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!
Paul Rodriguez
---------------------------------
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I honestly don't know about RTV for sure, I would think it was OK but
the real problem with RTV is that paint will never stick to it.
My favourite sealant is a stuff called Vulkem 116 and its what the
ductwork contractors use here at work. Its paintable and sticks to
virtually anything and stays flexible.
It's the most durable non silicone based sealant I have found. Home
Depot stocks it by the case...I probably still have 8 tubes of it left
over from our house project but it will get used eventually.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug kandle
Subject: Zenith-List: Sealing gaps
--> Zenith-List message posted by: doug kandle <d_kandle@velocitus.net>
I would like to seal up some of the small openings in parts of my 701.
I live in an area with bugs that build nests in planes if they can get
into small cracks. I was thinking of using RTV around places like the
strut bracket opening into the wing. I've heard that some silicone
based products are not aluminum friendly. Is RTV, or something like it,
OK to use to seal these areas?
Doug Kandle
CH701
Boise ID
Rudder & Horiz. Stab. done Working on Wings From complete kit
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Sealing gaps |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Remember to let some drain for the condensed moisture...
We have one little dirt nest (wasp) inside our elevator, we only notice its
there when we do the preflight and move the elevator up and down :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower
701 912S
Guadalajara, Mexico.
Do not Archive.
doug kandle <d_kandle@velocitus.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: doug kandle
I would like to seal up some of the small openings in parts of my
701. I live in an area with bugs that build nests in planes if they
can get into small cracks. I was thinking of using RTV around places
like the strut bracket opening into the wing. I've heard that some
silicone based products are not aluminum friendly. Is RTV, or
something like it, OK to use to seal these areas?
Doug Kandle
CH701
Boise ID
Rudder & Horiz. Stab. done Working on Wings
From complete kit
---------------------------------
Message 14
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| Subject: | He Said, She Said... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Dear Listers,
I've been getting some great feedback from Listers lately along with
their List Contributions. I thought I share a few more of the nice
thoughts people have had regarding the what the Lists mean to them.
Please take a minute right now and make a Contribution to support these
Lists. Remember that its solely *your* generosity that keeps them
running and without your support they would cease to exist.
The Contribution web site is fast and easy:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics List Administrator
====================== What Listers Are Saying #3 ======================
This is a great deal for aviation info/entertainment.
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Truly a great source of help and information.
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I couldn't imagine building my RV-7A without the 'net
and your lists!
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Great lists!
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Where would I be without the list?
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What a resource!
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Great service.
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[The List] has such a wealth of information.
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A great resource for builders and flyers.
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I enjoy the Lists.
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A great source of information.
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This is a great service.
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Great service.
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Great resource!
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Very helpfull & we appreciate all your efforts.
Stan B.
Makes me realize how much I don't know that I don't know...
Martin H.
I am not a builder but enjoy the posts.
Doug P.
Great information.
James B.
Thanks to all who share their knowledge and ask the
questions I didn't know enough to ask myself. It will fly
some day.
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Excellent source of information.
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While I haven't learned enough to contribute to others very
often, I have learned enough to avoid some mistakes in
building my kit.
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[The List] is invaluable.
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I think of the Kolb List as the daily "Kolb Magazine" of
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[The List] has saved me from mistakes already several times.
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Between the archives, the folks that have already done it,
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====================== What Listers Are Saying #3 ======================
do not archive
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 15
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| Subject: | Up and away 1776G |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "tinerj@tinerj.com" <tinerj@tinerj.com>
1776G Firt Flight Great news to hear.
I was going to send email private, but I think I'll put this on the list so
I can explain that part of the 5 years was due to interruptions for the
help you've given others.
. . . Now if only I can get the tail of my 601 fuselage finished -- a month
of work and I am still messing around with getting the rudder hinges and
stablizer brackets to my liking . . .
John Hudson Tiner
tinerj@tinerj.com
Message 16
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Received-SPF: none (mgr1.xmission.com: 166.70.39.121 is neither permitted nor denied
by domain of craigandjean.com) client-ip=166.70.39.121; envelope-from=craig@craigandjean.com;
helo=TheTCCraig;
| Subject: | 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Could you tell me what page these dimensions are on? I've looked through my
older set of plans (January '01)and only saw a note in the lower left corner
of 6-B-11: "Cut later for cowl installation". My newer plans (June of '03)
include this and another note in the center bottom of 6-B-15: "Overhang of
side skin past cowl for cowl installation". The original builder (Jack
Rentfrow in Michigan) may have had a specific engine and cowl in mind and so
trimmed the skins.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rico Voss
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rico Voss <vozzen@yahoo.com>
Craig--
My plans of the same vintage ('01) call for an overhang of 70 from the
rivet-line (60 in front of the firewall). And I haven't seen any change, or
other customizations.
Sounds like he either blew it, or had another idea. Looks like you'll need
to put your cowl into the firewall flange, or extend the skins with a strap
of some sort.
Rico
do not archive
> In mine the skins stop flush with the firewall. Did the original
> builder of my plane get it wrong, has the design changed or is this a
> customization by some builders?
>
> -- Craig
>
__________________________________
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Good deal on rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
Paul-
Don't feel so bad. The ACS deal is only on A4s.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Good deal on rivets
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
>
> Yup, story of my life. In a traffic jam, when I cut over to the lane
that's moving, it stops.
> When I desperately need to write something down, the pen's out of ink.
> Carefully measure something, then find out the tape measure shifted an
inch the wrong way.
> Power always goes out just before I hit "save".
> The wind only shifts while I'm on final.
> And every time I think I've hit upon a good deal, somebody knows of a
better one.
> AAAAARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!
>
> Paul Rodriguez
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: William J. Naumuk<mailto:billn@velocity.net>
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 6:52 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Good deal on rivets
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk"
<billn@velocity.net<mailto:billn@velocity.net>>
>
> Paul-
> The most expensive A4 from ACS is 4.50/hundred, and long A5s are the
> same price. Does B+B pay shipping, or am I missing something?
> Bill
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <PAULROD36@msn.com<mailto:PAULROD36@msn.com>>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Good deal on rivets
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by:
<PAULROD36@msn.com<mailto:PAULROD36@msn.com>>
> >
> > Another good source I've discovered is B&B Aircraft Supply, in Gardner
KS.
> They sell for $4.95 per hundred.
> >
> > Paul Rodriguez
> > 601XL/Corvair
> > Still on the fuselage
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Bob Gibfried<mailto:rfg842@cox.net<mailto:rfg842@cox.net>>
> > To:
zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-lis
t@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 9:14 AM
> > Subject: Zenith-List: Good deal on rivets
> >
> >
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Gibfried"
>
<rfg842@cox.net<mailto:rfg842@cox.net<mailto:rfg842@cox.net<mailto:rfg842@co
x.net>>>
> >
> > Thought I'd pass on a good source for rivets. Midwest Fastener
Supply.,
> > Mulvane, Kansas. Furnishes fasteners to most of the local, Wichita
> > aircraft manufacturers. I've found that their rivets are from 2 to
4
> cents
> > cheaper than Wicks or Aircraft Spruce per rivet. Five dollar
minimum
> order
> > and fast service. Email Ana at
>
www.midwestfastener.com<http://www.midwestfastener.com/<http://www.midwestfa
stener.com<http://www.midwestfastener.com/>> for a quote.
> >
> > Bob, Wichita
> >
> >
>
>
Message 18
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Received-SPF: none (mgr1.xmission.com: 166.70.39.121 is neither permitted nor denied
by domain of craigandjean.com) client-ip=166.70.39.121; envelope-from=craig@craigandjean.com;
helo=TheTCCraig;
| Subject: | 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
I've looked through the original builder's photo log and can see that he
built it with the skins extending beyond the firewall. So I guess he cut
them back when he thought he was "done". Before the second owner (Jim
Dankovich in Michigan) bought the kit he had a couple EAA Technical
Counselors look it over. So it may not have been build to plan but the
constructions details look all right.
I did stop at the Zenith factory in December last year when I was driving
the kit from Michigan to Utah in a U-Haul truck. I transferred the
registration then. I also transferred N999JR in the FAA's records. Now I
just hope Utah doesn't try and collect any taxes from me.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Gower
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Hi Craig,
The big problem I see here, is to find out how many other mistakes the
project could have with 3 diferent owners, at least this one is in front of
your eyes...
You have to study very well your plans and your plane, to be sure about
it.
Hope is welll built, in every case, have fun and have patience, you will
be happy when you finish.
Remeber to let know the factory (Zenith Aircraft Co) about your new
ownership (serial Number), also check the list archives and of course, keep
in touch with all of us..
Saludos
Gary Gower
Rico Voss <vozzen@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rico Voss
Craig--
My plans of the same vintage ('01) call for an overhang of 70 from the
rivet-line (60 in front of the firewall). And I haven't seen any change, or
other customizations.
Sounds like he either blew it, or had another idea. Looks like you'll need
to put your cowl into the firewall flange, or extend the skins with a strap
of some sort.
Rico
do not archive
> In mine the skins stop flush with the firewall. Did the original
> builder of my plane get it wrong, has the design changed or is this a
> customization by some builders?
>
> -- Craig
>
__________________________________
---------------------------------
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Ribb" <dan@danribb.com>
The only other place I see a reference to the overhang is on 6-C-1 (dated
07/05 in my case). Detail 4 - FORWARD TOP SKIN - it shows a 70mm "Overhang
of 6C1-4 for cowl". 6C1-4 is the forward top skin. It also shows that skin
blending into the side skin overhang. I've seen several 601s with nut
plates or other fastening systems placed in this overhang to attach the
cowling.
Dan Ribb
Fresno, CA
601XL 1% on tail kit!
> posted by: "Craig Payne"
>
> Could you tell me what page these dimensions are on? I've looked through
> my
> older set of plans (January '01)and only saw a note in the lower left
> corner
> of 6-B-11: "Cut later for cowl installation". My newer plans (June of '03)
> include this and another note in the center bottom of 6-B-15: "Overhang of
> side skin past cowl for cowl installation". The original builder (Jack
> Rentfrow in Michigan) may have had a specific engine and cowl in mind and
> so
> trimmed the skins.
>
> -- Craig
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" <armyret@one-eleven.net>
Craig- Check 6-C-1 (mine date 10/01). The forward top skin is 570 wide.
It has a 15mm overhang on the rear (over the inst panel) for a rubber
moulding. that should leave you about 70mm overhang over the firewall.
Hope this helps.
Al Young
N-601AY
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Al, how are the repairs coming ? Is there anything we can do to help ?, Best
regards for Thanksgiving, Bill
Message 22
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by domain of craigandjean.com) client-ip=166.70.39.121; envelope-from=craig@craigandjean.com;
helo=TheTCCraig;
| Subject: | 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Yes, that detail is in my newer plans (Jan '03). On 6-C-1 on the older plans
(May '01) there is just a note saying "Wait to trim overhang until ready to
install the engine cowl" That note is circled in yellow hi-liter so I assume
the original builder noted it. . No explicit dimension though.
What is interesting is how much the dimensions have changed from May '01 to
Jan '03. The forward top skin was 1045 at its widest by 600. The newer plans
have it as 1135 by 570. I'll need to stick with the old plans for
dimensions.
So much for interchangeable parts. I guess Eli Whitney and Eliphalet
Remington lived in vain ;-)
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Ribb
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Ribb" <dan@danribb.com>
The only other place I see a reference to the overhang is on 6-C-1 (dated
07/05 in my case). Detail 4 - FORWARD TOP SKIN - it shows a 70mm "Overhang
of 6C1-4 for cowl". 6C1-4 is the forward top skin. It also shows that skin
blending into the side skin overhang. I've seen several 601s with nut
plates or other fastening systems placed in this overhang to attach the
cowling.
Dan Ribb
Fresno, CA
601XL 1% on tail kit!
> posted by: "Craig Payne"
>
> Could you tell me what page these dimensions are on? I've looked
> through my older set of plans (January '01)and only saw a note in the
> lower left corner of 6-B-11: "Cut later for cowl installation". My
> newer plans (June of '03) include this and another note in the center
> bottom of 6-B-15: "Overhang of side skin past cowl for cowl
> installation". The original builder (Jack Rentfrow in Michigan) may
> have had a specific engine and cowl in mind and so trimmed the skins.
>
> -- Craig
Message 23
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Received-SPF: none (mgr1.xmission.com: 166.70.39.121 is neither permitted nor denied
by domain of craigandjean.com) client-ip=166.70.39.121; envelope-from=craig@craigandjean.com;
helo=TheTCCraig;
| Subject: | 601 XL skins forward of the firewall. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Thanks. I think I can see how to fix this. The top forward skin hasn't been
riveted on so I can just replace it. For the two side skins I'll remove the
rivets along the firewall. Then I'll cut two pieces 80-90 mm wide and the
height of the side skins at the firewall. The only question in my mind is
whether this "extension" should get sandwiched between the firewall and the
skin or lay over the skin on the outside. The strength will be the same
either way so it will come down to how everything laps at the ends or which
way looks the best. I'm using a Corvair engine with William Wynne's nose
bowl. So there will be sheet metal cowling between the nose bowl and the
firewall
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Al Young
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 XL skins forward of the firewall.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" <armyret@one-eleven.net>
Craig- Check 6-C-1 (mine date 10/01). The forward top skin is 570 wide.
It has a 15mm overhang on the rear (over the inst panel) for a rubber
moulding. that should leave you about 70mm overhang over the firewall.
Hope this helps.
Al Young
N-601AY
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Good deal on rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
All-
Now that I think of it, maybe listers should make a point of asking ACS
to stock A5s at a decent price. It's obvious there's a market, and they
should be able sell enough to make it worth their while. They seem to be
reasonable people to deal with.
Does anyone have the exact specifications for an A5? I'll be the first
to e-mail them, but it might be best to have a better description than "5/32
blind".
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Good deal on rivets
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk"
<billn@velocity.net>
>
> Paul-
> Don't feel so bad. The ACS deal is only on A4s.
> Bill
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Good deal on rivets
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
> >
> > Yup, story of my life. In a traffic jam, when I cut over to the lane
> that's moving, it stops.
> > When I desperately need to write something down, the pen's out of ink.
> > Carefully measure something, then find out the tape measure shifted an
> inch the wrong way.
> > Power always goes out just before I hit "save".
> > The wind only shifts while I'm on final.
> > And every time I think I've hit upon a good deal, somebody knows of a
> better one.
> > AAAAARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!
> >
> > Paul Rodriguez
> > DO NOT ARCHIVE
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: William J. Naumuk<mailto:billn@velocity.net>
> > To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 6:52 PM
> > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Good deal on rivets
> >
> >
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk"
> <billn@velocity.net<mailto:billn@velocity.net>>
> >
> > Paul-
> > The most expensive A4 from ACS is 4.50/hundred, and long A5s are
the
> > same price. Does B+B pay shipping, or am I missing something?
> > Bill
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <PAULROD36@msn.com<mailto:PAULROD36@msn.com>>
> > To: <zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>>
> > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Good deal on rivets
> >
> >
> > > --> Zenith-List message posted by:
> <PAULROD36@msn.com<mailto:PAULROD36@msn.com>>
> > >
> > > Another good source I've discovered is B&B Aircraft Supply, in
Gardner
> KS.
> > They sell for $4.95 per hundred.
> > >
> > > Paul Rodriguez
> > > 601XL/Corvair
> > > Still on the fuselage
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Bob Gibfried<mailto:rfg842@cox.net<mailto:rfg842@cox.net>>
> > > To:
>
zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-lis
> t@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>>
> > > Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 9:14 AM
> > > Subject: Zenith-List: Good deal on rivets
> > >
> > >
> > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Gibfried"
> >
>
<rfg842@cox.net<mailto:rfg842@cox.net<mailto:rfg842@cox.net<mailto:rfg842@co
> x.net>>>
> > >
> > > Thought I'd pass on a good source for rivets. Midwest Fastener
> Supply.,
> > > Mulvane, Kansas. Furnishes fasteners to most of the local,
Wichita
> > > aircraft manufacturers. I've found that their rivets are from 2
to
> 4
> > cents
> > > cheaper than Wicks or Aircraft Spruce per rivet. Five dollar
> minimum
> > order
> > > and fast service. Email Ana at
> >
>
www.midwestfastener.com<http://www.midwestfastener.com/<http://www.midwestfa
> stener.com<http://www.midwestfastener.com/>> for a quote.
> > >
> > > Bob, Wichita
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Good deal on rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Ribb" <dan@danribb.com>
> --> posted by: "William J. Naumuk"
>
> Does anyone have the exact specifications for an A5? I'll be the first
> to e-mail them, but it might be best to have a better description than
> "5/32
> blind".
The Zodiac 601 "Construction Manual", page 9, shows:
A4 = Avex 1604-0412
A5 = Avex 1604-0514
Aircraft Spruce carries both:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/avexblindriv.php
Dan Ribb
Fresno, CA
601XL 1% on tail kit!
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Good deal on rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Hi Bill,
I think I did better than that. I spent a half hour at the counter with
the head of sales at the Gerogia ACSS store and had A5 rivets with me to
compare with ACSS stock. He took a lot of time, got bags of 100 made up
from stock if they even looked close to my A5. We culled most of the
5/32 from catalog descriptions alone but looked at 4 bags of "likely
suspects" he brought out from stock. The closest one was a Cherry rivet
with a monel stem and it cost over a quarter apice. One thing that
tends to confuse sales people is that our rivets are made for
countersinking since they have an angled skirt on them. You have to
explain that they aren't flush rivets with a flat head and that our
domed puller's head cups the heads till they lie flat with the surface
of the skin.
I also went to a great store called Fasteners. They had a number of
selections of 5/32 rivets in boxes of 500 for from $30 to $35 per box.
The problem was that the head was larger than my A5 and would have
required drilling out another nose piece for the puller.
I am sure there is some common source that has not been tapped that
will come to light soon.
Good luck
Ron N601TD
do not archive
William J. Naumuk wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
>
>All-
> Now that I think of it, maybe listers should make a point of asking ACS
>to stock A5s at a decent price. It's obvious there's a market, and they
>should be able sell enough to make it worth their while. They seem to be
>reasonable people to deal with.
> Does anyone have the exact specifications for an A5? I'll be the first
>to e-mail them, but it might be best to have a better description than "5/32
>blind".
> Bill
>
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: First flight 1776G |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Liming <gary@liming.org>
At 12:12 PM 11/21/2005, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Keystone Engineering LLC <keystone@gci.net>
>
>Gary
>
>I have 2 items to pass on. Don't use flaps in a cross wind and it
>takes off quicker and climbs faster with 10 degrees flaps.
I guess that's about 1 second on the switch! I'll try it.
>What is your empty weight?
Mine was 1224. With all the upholstery, I was happy with that. I
have a pretty light (electronic) panel. What approach and touchdown
speed do you target? Did you add any oilcanning bracing?
>Enjoy flying your plane!
Thanks, Bill.
Gary
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