---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/01/05: 26 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:54 AM - Aeroflash Nav-Strobe-Position lights on XL (Richard Shults) 2. 07:12 AM - Jab cowl (Jeff Small) 3. 07:33 AM - Re: Aeroflash Nav-Strobe-Position lights on XL (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 4. 09:19 AM - XL Performance Numbers (Lance Gingell) 5. 09:23 AM - Oil access door on Jabiru 601 cowl (Lance Gingell) 6. 09:31 AM - Re: XL Performance Numbers (Lance Gingell) 7. 09:48 AM - Pre-heater (charles.long@gm.com) 8. 10:00 AM - Re: Aeroflash Nav-Strobe-Position lights on XL (Dan Ribb) 9. 12:25 PM - Re: Aeroflash Nav-Strobe-Position lights on XL (Pete Krotje) 10. 02:41 PM - 701 Design Question (Chris Lewis) 11. 02:53 PM - Re: Aeroflash Nav-Strobe-Position lights on XL (Gary Gower) 12. 03:50 PM - Trim indicator (Chuck Deiterich) 13. 04:06 PM - Re: Alternator (george may) 14. 04:34 PM - Re: 701 Design Question (bill naumuk) 15. 04:44 PM - Re: Trim indicator (Dan Ribb) 16. 05:17 PM - 601 Firewall Forward (John Anderson) 17. 06:40 PM - Re: Aeroflash Nav-Strobe-Position lights on XL (craig@craigandjean.com) 18. 07:25 PM - Re: 701 Design Question (Zodie Rocket) 19. 07:29 PM - Re: Aeroflash Nav-Strobe-Position lights on XL (Paul Mulwitz) 20. 07:57 PM - Nav strobe lights (neitzel) 21. 08:09 PM - Re: Used 912's Beware! (Ron Crook) 22. 08:14 PM - Re: Aeroflash Nav-Strobe-Position lights on XL (craig@craigandjean.com) 23. 08:22 PM - Re: Aeroflash Nav-Strobe-Position lights on XL (craig@craigandjean.com) 24. 10:26 PM - Re: 701 Design Question. (Gary Gower) 25. 10:27 PM - Re: Aeroflash Nav-Strobe-Position lights on XL (Gary Gower) 26. 10:39 PM - Re: Aeroflash Nav-Strobe-Position lights on XL (Craig Payne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:07 AM PST US From: "Richard Shults" Subject: Zenith-List: Aeroflash Nav-Strobe-Position lights on XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard Shults" I've ordered the wing kit for the XL and included in the order is the ZAC-supplied Nav-Strobe lights with the position light on the rudder. I saw a Nav-Strobe-Position light set on the Aeroflash web site. http://www.aeroflash.com/aeroflash_nav_strobe_position.php I don't have access to a XL wing tip to see if this light assemble will fit on the mounting area. The light base is 1.759 X 5.565 inches. Would someone mind seeing if this light assembly will be usable with the ZAC-supplied wing tips? Any other concerns I'm missing? Thanks.......... Richard S. Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:31 AM PST US From: "Jeff Small" Subject: Zenith-List: Jab cowl --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" Time: 06:10:24 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Jabiru Cowl --> Zenith-List message posted by: I believe it is for the 3300, when I bought it from Jabiru I ordered one for my 3300. +++It will fit either the 2200 or 3300. It's the motor mount that will be different. Of course, the RamDucts will be for the longer six-cylinder 3300. jeff HDS/3300 do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:13 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Aeroflash Nav-Strobe-Position lights on XL From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" I have had nothing but trouble with Aeroflash units over the last 6 years. I would not buy them again. The main capacitor in both power supplies leaked and I was told to send them back at $50 a pop...No thank you. You can replace the capacitors yourself...I've gone thru 3 sets in 6 years. The heads seem reliable though. Of course they may have been improved since I bought mine Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Shults Subject: Zenith-List: Aeroflash Nav-Strobe-Position lights on XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard Shults" --> I've ordered the wing kit for the XL and included in the order is the ZAC-supplied Nav-Strobe lights with the position light on the rudder. I saw a Nav-Strobe-Position light set on the Aeroflash web site. http://www.aeroflash.com/aeroflash_nav_strobe_position.php I don't have access to a XL wing tip to see if this light assemble will fit on the mounting area. The light base is 1.759 X 5.565 inches. Would someone mind seeing if this light assembly will be usable with the ZAC-supplied wing tips? Any other concerns I'm missing? Thanks.......... Richard S. Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:19:16 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: XL Performance Numbers From: "Lance Gingell" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" Jeff, Tony brings up a good point: "You might check your UP flap setting. I find that just a few degrees of flap can easily give up 5 kts top speed." I actually adjusted one flap which wasn't going quite exactly up as far as the other (measured at the trailing edge) - now they are exactly the same. I've not done much performance testing since, but some extra knots are apparent. ..lance ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:23:48 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Oil access door on Jabiru 601 cowl From: "Lance Gingell" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" Mark, Here's a pic of my Jabiru Oil access door that may help (with a different latch I 'borrowed' from a neighbour!) http://wls1/planebuild/DSC06239.jpg (small) http://wls1.lancegingell.com/largeplaneimages/DSC06239.jpg ..lance http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:31:12 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL Performance Numbers From: "Lance Gingell" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" Hi Bill, I didn't know that the prototype was that heavy! It does have a bunch of old rotax engine wiring, maybe that's it!!. ...and I'm unpainted at the moment, with no wheel pants. I'm very light in the engine/panel area I think. My panel is mostly devoid of heavy steam gauges too, and the electronics are very light: http://lancegingell.com/planebuild/DSC06352.JPG The skyshops seats I have are VERY light. definately lighter than the leather demo ones (which I held). I will be adding some carpet and firewall insulation I expect (and paint), which will bring me closer to yours! Cheers, ..lance http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Lance, I have just got to ask. What did you leave off or out to get an empty weight of 712 pounds? The ZAC prototype weighs in at 730 and I have that by over 50 pounds so what is your secret? Enviously heavy regards, Bill ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:48:34 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Pre-heater From: charles.long@gm.com 29, 2005) at 12/01/2005 12:47:08 PM --> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com Since there has been so much interest in the pre-heat subject, thought I'd share the following website which shows an electric milkhouse heater application for the Zodie 601HDS. It also works with wheelpants, just need to trim it to fit at an angle. Heats the engine to above 50 F in about 20-40 minutes, depending on the outside air temp. Cost about $30-$40 dollars, and takes 2-4 hours to build. The original idea came from the Jabiru USA website. http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/charles.long@gm.com.11.06.2004/ Chuck Long N601LE, 46 hr TT ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:00:25 AM PST US From: "Dan Ribb" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aeroflash Nav-Strobe-Position lights on XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Ribb" I don't have access to a wing tip yet to measure but I did ask a factory rep this very question the day I flew the factory plane. The other concern I had was the mounting areas angle forward a bit so I was afraid the rear facing white lights might be obstructed from the rear. They assured me they work fine and several builders have used them successfully. Now I'm not sure about the brand, I was also looking at the ones from Whelen. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/whelena600strobe.php Dan Ribb Fresno, CA 601XL tail kit 5% done > I saw a Nav-Strobe-Position light set on the Aeroflash web site. > > http://www.aeroflash.com/aeroflash_nav_strobe_position.php > > I don't have access to a XL wing tip to see if this light assemble > will fit on the mounting area. The light base is 1.759 X 5.565 inches. > Would someone mind seeing if this light assembly will be usable with > the ZAC-supplied wing tips? Any other concerns I'm missing? ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:37 PM PST US From: "Pete Krotje" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Aeroflash Nav-Strobe-Position lights on XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pete Krotje" For the last year we have been using the GS-Air LED position light / strobe light combo. We like them a lot. The LED position lights are brighter than the Whelan or Aeroflash and only draw 250 milli amps of power per side. The strobe is a triple flash and appears just as bright as any of the others. Cost is much less than Whelan. See them at www.gs-air.com. Pete Krotje Jabiru USA -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Ribb Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aeroflash Nav-Strobe-Position lights on XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Ribb" I don't have access to a wing tip yet to measure but I did ask a factory rep this very question the day I flew the factory plane. The other concern I had was the mounting areas angle forward a bit so I was afraid the rear facing white lights might be obstructed from the rear. They assured me they work fine and several builders have used them successfully. Now I'm not sure about the brand, I was also looking at the ones from Whelen. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/whelena600strobe.php Dan Ribb Fresno, CA 601XL tail kit 5% done > I saw a Nav-Strobe-Position light set on the Aeroflash web site. > > http://www.aeroflash.com/aeroflash_nav_strobe_position.php > > I don't have access to a XL wing tip to see if this light assemble > will fit on the mounting area. The light base is 1.759 X 5.565 inches. > Would someone mind seeing if this light assembly will be usable with > the ZAC-supplied wing tips? Any other concerns I'm missing? ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:47 PM PST US From: Chris Lewis Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Design Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: Chris Lewis Greetings from Seattle- I'm beginning the 701 plans building adventure and have been pouring over my plans for several weeks and have a question or two. I notice that the fuselage is wider at the bottom than at the top. Anyone know why it's not truly square? Same for the fusealge sides and top. They bow slightly in the middle. Thanks for everyone's contributions to this list. It's been amazing what I've been able to learn. Chris Lewis Seattle Area ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:53:38 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aeroflash Nav-Strobe-Position lights on XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower I think that the capacitor problem is not a buy or no buy decision maker, because all of them use a capacitor of some sort to make the flash.., and as any electrical part can fail any moment. I have Aeroflash for about 3 years (2 in the box and almost one flying) with no problem (knock wood). In case of capacitor fails, well we just will buy another one and carefully change it, like the light bulbs... Saludos Gary Gower. (No expert in strob light area, just plain common sense). Dan Ribb wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Ribb" I don't have access to a wing tip yet to measure but I did ask a factory rep this very question the day I flew the factory plane. The other concern I had was the mounting areas angle forward a bit so I was afraid the rear facing white lights might be obstructed from the rear. They assured me they work fine and several builders have used them successfully. Now I'm not sure about the brand, I was also looking at the ones from Whelen. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/whelena600strobe.php Dan Ribb Fresno, CA 601XL tail kit 5% done > I saw a Nav-Strobe-Position light set on the Aeroflash web site. > > http://www.aeroflash.com/aeroflash_nav_strobe_position.php > > I don't have access to a XL wing tip to see if this light assemble > will fit on the mounting area. The light base is 1.759 X 5.565 inches. > Would someone mind seeing if this light assembly will be usable with > the ZAC-supplied wing tips? Any other concerns I'm missing? --------------------------------- Let fate take it's course directly to your email. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:50:27 PM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Zenith-List: Trim indicator --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" I have a MAC electric trim (from ZAC). The LED indicator used to work OK, now as you change the trim some of the LED's don't come on, they are blank and then the next one will come on. The ones that don't work are always the same, about 4 out of 10. It looks like there are 3 signal wires and 2 power wires to the indicator. Does anyone know how the signals work, are they a voltage level or what? Thanks, C. Deiterich ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:06:02 PM PST US From: "george may" Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Alternator --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" Is anyone using the external 40 amp alternator on a Rotax 912? If so, are you also using the alternator that comes with the engine? George May 601XL 912S ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:34:50 PM PST US From: "bill naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Design Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "bill naumuk" Chris- This sounds like a question for Nick. Try "Technical Questions" through the Zenith website. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Lewis" Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Design Question > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Chris Lewis > > Greetings from Seattle- > > I'm beginning the 701 plans building adventure and have been pouring over my plans for several weeks and have a question or two. > > I notice that the fuselage is wider at the bottom than at the top. Anyone know why it's not truly square? Same for the fusealge sides and top. They bow slightly in the middle. > > Thanks for everyone's contributions to this list. It's been amazing what I've been able to learn. > > Chris Lewis > Seattle Area > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:44:22 PM PST US From: "Dan Ribb" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Trim indicator --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Ribb" This has been a problem for some time with MAC LED trim indicators. They have replaced several for free for friends of mine stating they had received a batch of bad units. Give them a call and see if they will do the same for you. http://www.rayallencompany.com/ BTW, I believe the LED bar graph is a single unit and not individual LEDs that you can replace. Similar to: http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=345&item=BG-10G&type=store Dan Ribb Fresno, CA 601XL Tail kit 5% done > > I have a MAC electric trim (from ZAC). The LED indicator used to work OK, > now as you change the trim some of the LED's don't come on, they are blank > and then the next one will come on. The ones that don't work are always > the same, about 4 out of 10. It looks like there are 3 signal wires and 2 > power wires to the indicator. Does anyone know how the signals work, are > they a voltage level or what? > Thanks, > C. Deiterich ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:18 PM PST US From: "John Anderson" Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Firewall Forward --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Anderson" Motor mount, Culver 60x36 prop, cowling, twin exhaust, 10" aluminum spinner, Revmaster 2100DQ fuel injected, spin on oil filter, Large oil cooler and 20 amp alternator. 42 hours since back to factory in 2003, ( New forged steel crank, cam etc). Check with revmaster 760-244-3074. Serial number 3083. $4500. John Anderson 205-672-7152 ande437@bellsouth.net N40087 HD601 Flying Birmingham Do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:17 PM PST US From: craig@craigandjean.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aeroflash Nav-Strobe-Position lights on XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: craig@craigandjean.com Capacitors driving xenon flash tubes are not off-the-shelf capacitors. I believe capacitors suitable for flash units have less internal Resistance. I would think the internal heating effects would be especially important in a strobe that repetitively fires. "Please note that the above electrolytic capacitors generally do well only with flash durations at least half a millisecond, preferably a millisecond. For shorter flashes likely with repeating strobes, I recommend laser energy storage capacitors or a bank of AC-rated motor run capacitors." (http://members.misty.com/don/xebig.html#c) "All capacitors should be rated at a minimum of 350V (preferably 450V). The storage capacitor can be a standard electrolytic, but its life will be limited due to the high discharge current. You might be able to get hold of a few disposable cameras and nab the capacitors from these (they probably won't last very long either, but they're cheap :-)" (http://sound.westhost.com/project65.htm) -- Craig Quoting Gary Gower : > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower > > I think that the capacitor problem is not a buy or no buy decision > maker, because all of them use a capacitor of some sort to make the > flash.., and as any electrical part can fail any moment. I have > Aeroflash for about 3 years (2 in the box and almost one flying) with > no problem (knock wood). > > In case of capacitor fails, well we just will buy another one and > carefully change it, like the light bulbs... > > Saludos > Gary Gower. > (No expert in strob light area, just plain common sense). > > Dan Ribb wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Ribb" > > I don't have access to a wing tip yet to measure but I did ask a factory > rep this very question the day I flew the factory plane. The other > concern I had was the mounting areas angle forward a bit so I was > afraid the rear facing white lights might be obstructed from the rear. > They assured me they work fine and several builders have used > them successfully. Now I'm not sure about the brand, I was also > looking at the ones from Whelen. > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/whelena600strobe.php > > > Dan Ribb > Fresno, CA > 601XL tail kit 5% done > > >> I saw a Nav-Strobe-Position light set on the Aeroflash web site. >> >> http://www.aeroflash.com/aeroflash_nav_strobe_position.php >> >> I don't have access to a XL wing tip to see if this light assemble >> will fit on the mounting area. The light base is 1.759 X 5.565 inches. >> Would someone mind seeing if this light assembly will be usable with >> the ZAC-supplied wing tips? Any other concerns I'm missing? > > > --------------------------------- > Let fate take it's course directly to your email. > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:11 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 701 Design Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" Hi Chris, Nick or Chris Heintz are the best people in which to get the facts from concerning your question. But that doesn't stop any of us pondering it and offering suggestions as to the design choices. The CH701 does one thing exceptionally well! It has a STOL performance which is hard to match by any other aircraft including the planes clones. Originally the CH701's design called out for a 503 power plant and a 68-72 inch prop. My line of thinking is that the fuselage was designed to allow the most thrust from the prop with the least amount of power. By bowing in the middle, I believe that it allows the plane to perform better in the STOL conditions in which it was designed for. Now with the design changes and the increased gross to accommodate the Rotax 912 series I doubt that this design portion is still a necessity. But knowing Chris Heintz, simplicity rules and why change for change sake. Well that's my 2 cents, sounds good in my grey matter. Though I could be totally wrong, when I see Chris later this month I will ask him. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bill naumuk Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Design Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "bill naumuk" Chris- This sounds like a question for Nick. Try "Technical Questions" through the Zenith website. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Lewis" Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Design Question > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Chris Lewis > > Greetings from Seattle- > > I'm beginning the 701 plans building adventure and have been pouring over my plans for several weeks and have a question or two. > > I notice that the fuselage is wider at the bottom than at the top. Anyone know why it's not truly square? Same for the fusealge sides and top. They bow slightly in the middle. > > Thanks for everyone's contributions to this list. It's been amazing what I've been able to learn. > > Chris Lewis > Seattle Area > > -- 11/27/2005 -- 11/27/2005 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:29 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aeroflash Nav-Strobe-Position lights on XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz Capacitors are not magical devices. They are incredibly simple electronic components which are made to specifications. If a capacitor meets all the specifications for the design it is acceptable for use. If you want to replace capacitors in Aeroflash brand products, then find out what the original components were and use the same ones. As an alternative, get capacitors meeting the exact same complete specification. Aeroflash may tell you which vendors and specific products have been approved for use in their system if you just ask them. Paul XL Wings (Recovering Electronic Circuit Designer) do not archive At 06:39 PM 12/1/2005, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: craig@craigandjean.com > >Capacitors driving xenon flash tubes are not off-the-shelf capacitors. >I believe >capacitors suitable for flash units have less internal Resistance. I >would think >the internal heating effects would be especially important in a strobe that >repetitively fires. > >"Please note that the above electrolytic capacitors generally do well >only with >flash durations at least half a millisecond, preferably a millisecond. For >shorter flashes likely with repeating strobes, I recommend laser energy >storage >capacitors or a bank of AC-rated motor run capacitors." > >(http://members.misty.com/don/xebig.html#c) > >"All capacitors should be rated at a minimum of 350V (preferably 450V). The >storage capacitor can be a standard electrolytic, but its life will be limited >due to the high discharge current. You might be able to get hold of a few >disposable cameras and nab the capacitors from these (they probably won't last >very long either, but they're cheap :-)" > >(http://sound.westhost.com/project65.htm) > >-- Craig > > >Quoting Gary Gower : > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower > > > > I think that the capacitor problem is not a buy or no buy decision > > maker, because all of them use a capacitor of some sort to make the > > flash.., and as any electrical part can fail any moment. I have > > Aeroflash for about 3 years (2 in the box and almost one flying) with > > no problem (knock wood). > > > > In case of capacitor fails, well we just will buy another one and > > carefully change it, like the light bulbs... > > > > Saludos > > Gary Gower. > > (No expert in strob light area, just plain common sense). > > > > Dan Ribb wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Ribb" > > > > I don't have access to a wing tip yet to measure but I did ask a factory > > rep this very question the day I flew the factory plane. The other > > concern I had was the mounting areas angle forward a bit so I was > > afraid the rear facing white lights might be obstructed from the rear. > > They assured me they work fine and several builders have used > > them successfully. Now I'm not sure about the brand, I was also > > looking at the ones from Whelen. > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/whelena600strobe.php > > > > > > Dan Ribb > > Fresno, CA > > 601XL tail kit 5% done > > > > > >> I saw a Nav-Strobe-Position light set on the Aeroflash web site. > >> > >> http://www.aeroflash.com/aeroflash_nav_strobe_position.php > >> > >> I don't have access to a XL wing tip to see if this light assemble > >> will fit on the mounting area. The light base is 1.759 X 5.565 inches. > >> Would someone mind seeing if this light assembly will be usable with > >> the ZAC-supplied wing tips? Any other concerns I'm missing? > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Let fate take it's course directly to your email. > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:36 PM PST US From: "neitzel" Subject: Zenith-List: Nav strobe lights --> Zenith-List message posted by: "neitzel" Greetings all I recently purchased nav/strobe lights that are similar to the ones by gs-air. The lights I bought also include the white light on the back side (and only weigh 3 oz ea) so I will not have to run a wire to the tail and put a light on the rudder. The price for these lights with the power supply was $329 (shielded cables extra and not that expensive 20 foot cables $12.65 ea). The power supply (17 oz) is extremely versatile as it is programmable to perform 12 different flash patterns of your choice. If you are not satisfied with the flash sequence it can be easily changed. The power supply pulls 40 watts and the LED position lights draw next to nothing. Warranty seemed pretty decent too at two years on power supply and LED's and one year on strobe bulb. I was also impressed with the dealings I had with the owner Rob Rollison. When I placed my order he was out of power supplies and said he would ship as soon as he could. I explained that I was getting close to closing the right wing and would need the lights and cables shortly. He volunteered to send the cables at his expense just to keep me building. Thought that was pretty decent. These lights can be see at: http://www.airplanegear.com/skybright.htm Happy building everyone! Dick Neitzel Sayner WI 701 Jabiru 2200 N962WB reserved ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:30 PM PST US From: "Ron Crook" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Used 912's Beware! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Crook" Anyone who has a 912 already knows about this and there will be alot more ADs they never end?? >From: michael burkhardt >Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Used 912's Beware! >Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 14:44:19 -0800 (PST) > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: michael burkhardt > >I was looking for a used 912, found one in the >southeast. Looked like a good deal, low time. Engine >was a 91 or 92 model. The engine logbook did not show >any of the service bulletins had been completed or a >overhaul after 10 years. Called Lockwood Aviation in >Florida talked with there tech Cary {not sure of >spelling}. Cary told me after the rocker arms, oil >pump, and the stator bulleitns would be $3500.00 just >for parts, not including the overhaul. Also required >work on the gearbox to upgrade the tbo from 600hrs to >1000hrs. I called our west coast Rotax rep would not >even talk to me, just wanted to sell me a new engine. >Cary at Lockwood took the time to help with my >questions. Saved me from being stuck with a headache >and a money pit. I would have spent more than the >purchase price of a new engine. To statisfy the >service bulletins and the overhaul. I recommend the >people at Lockwood Aviation very highly! A 701 >builder, still looking for a engine! > > >__________________________________ > > Powerful Parental Controls Let your child discover the best the Internet has to offer. Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:18 PM PST US From: craig@craigandjean.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aeroflash Nav-Strobe-Position lights on XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: craig@craigandjean.com Who said anything about magic? Resistence is a very real unit of measure. Explain this to me - what is the difference between a ceramic disk capacitor and a mylar capacitor of the same value? Yes, what part of the specifaction describes their internal rssistance? Batteries are also incredibly simple devices. Try this test: short-circuit your car battery and then short-circuit a 9 volt radio battery. What explains the differnet results? Amp-hours? Nope. Voltage? Nope? Internal resistence? Bingo. -- Craig Quoting Paul Mulwitz : > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz > > Capacitors are not magical devices. They are incredibly simple > electronic components which are made to specifications. If a > capacitor meets all the specifications for the design it is > acceptable for use. > > If you want to replace capacitors in Aeroflash brand products, then > find out what the original components were and use the same ones. As > an alternative, get capacitors meeting the exact same complete > specification. Aeroflash may tell you which vendors and specific > products have been approved for use in their system if you just ask them. > > Paul > XL Wings (Recovering Electronic Circuit Designer) > do not archive > > At 06:39 PM 12/1/2005, you wrote: >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: craig@craigandjean.com >> >> Capacitors driving xenon flash tubes are not off-the-shelf capacitors. >> I believe >> capacitors suitable for flash units have less internal Resistance. I >> would think >> the internal heating effects would be especially important in a strobe that >> repetitively fires. >> >> "Please note that the above electrolytic capacitors generally do well >> only with >> flash durations at least half a millisecond, preferably a millisecond. For >> shorter flashes likely with repeating strobes, I recommend laser energy >> storage >> capacitors or a bank of AC-rated motor run capacitors." >> >> (http://members.misty.com/don/xebig.html#c) >> >> "All capacitors should be rated at a minimum of 350V (preferably 450V). The >> storage capacitor can be a standard electrolytic, but its life will >> be limited >> due to the high discharge current. You might be able to get hold of a few >> disposable cameras and nab the capacitors from these (they probably >> won't last >> very long either, but they're cheap :-)" >> >> (http://sound.westhost.com/project65.htm) >> >> -- Craig >> >> >> Quoting Gary Gower : >> >> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower >> > >> > I think that the capacitor problem is not a buy or no buy decision >> > maker, because all of them use a capacitor of some sort to make the >> > flash.., and as any electrical part can fail any moment. I have >> > Aeroflash for about 3 years (2 in the box and almost one flying) with >> > no problem (knock wood). >> > >> > In case of capacitor fails, well we just will buy another one and >> > carefully change it, like the light bulbs... >> > >> > Saludos >> > Gary Gower. >> > (No expert in strob light area, just plain common sense). >> > >> > Dan Ribb wrote: >> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Ribb" >> > >> > I don't have access to a wing tip yet to measure but I did ask a factory >> > rep this very question the day I flew the factory plane. The other >> > concern I had was the mounting areas angle forward a bit so I was >> > afraid the rear facing white lights might be obstructed from the rear. >> > They assured me they work fine and several builders have used >> > them successfully. Now I'm not sure about the brand, I was also >> > looking at the ones from Whelen. >> > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/whelena600strobe.php >> > >> > >> > Dan Ribb >> > Fresno, CA >> > 601XL tail kit 5% done >> > >> > >> >> I saw a Nav-Strobe-Position light set on the Aeroflash web site. >> >> >> >> http://www.aeroflash.com/aeroflash_nav_strobe_position.php >> >> >> >> I don't have access to a XL wing tip to see if this light assemble >> >> will fit on the mounting area. The light base is 1.759 X 5.565 inches. >> >> Would someone mind seeing if this light assembly will be usable with >> >> the ZAC-supplied wing tips? Any other concerns I'm missing? >> > >> > >> > --------------------------------- >> > Let fate take it's course directly to your email. >> > >> > >> >> > > --------------------------------------------- > Paul Mulwitz > 32013 NE Dial Road > Camas, WA 98607 > --------------------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:48 PM PST US From: craig@craigandjean.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aeroflash Nav-Strobe-Position lights on XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: craig@craigandjean.com If you still don't believe in magic then perhaps you should read this (especially the part that says "Strobe capacitors use amorphous alumina rather than the usual crystalline alumina"): "Strobe capacitors are used at high repetition rates. In the case of low-voltage units, the repetition rate may be very high, high enough for use in party strobe lights and in automotive tachometer lights. High-voltage units generally cannot be operated in full charge-discharge mode beyond about 2 or 3 Hz repetition rate, or rep rate. High-voltage aluminum electrolytic strobe capacitors use a different alumina dielectric structure than their photoflash and filter counterparts. Strobe capacitors use amorphous alumina rather than the usual crystalline alumina. This is accomplished through the forming process when the foil is anodized. Different pre-processing, process temperature and current density, and different electrolyte chemistry is used. The resulting dielectric is unfortunately much thicker than its crystalline counterpart. For this reason, strobe foil has larger tunnels and strobe capacitors suffer in energy density and cost by a factor of about four against their crystalline cousins. But their repetition rates may offer a factor of twenty improvement, and their life duration may approach 1,000 times the number of sustained charge-discharge cycles. When one only needs a fractional discharge, such as discharging from 400 V to 250 V, instead of full-discharge, hybrid capacitor designs can be developed which offer high repetition rate, long life, without the sacrifices in cost and size required by amorphous foil." (http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encycl/art-c04-electr-cap.htm) -- Craig Quoting Paul Mulwitz : > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz > > Capacitors are not magical devices. They are incredibly simple > electronic components which are made to specifications. If a > capacitor meets all the specifications for the design it is > acceptable for use. > > If you want to replace capacitors in Aeroflash brand products, then > find out what the original components were and use the same ones. As > an alternative, get capacitors meeting the exact same complete > specification. Aeroflash may tell you which vendors and specific > products have been approved for use in their system if you just ask them. > > Paul > XL Wings (Recovering Electronic Circuit Designer) > do not archive > > At 06:39 PM 12/1/2005, you wrote: >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: craig@craigandjean.com >> >> Capacitors driving xenon flash tubes are not off-the-shelf capacitors. >> I believe >> capacitors suitable for flash units have less internal Resistance. I >> would think >> the internal heating effects would be especially important in a strobe that >> repetitively fires. >> >> "Please note that the above electrolytic capacitors generally do well >> only with >> flash durations at least half a millisecond, preferably a millisecond. For >> shorter flashes likely with repeating strobes, I recommend laser energy >> storage >> capacitors or a bank of AC-rated motor run capacitors." >> >> (http://members.misty.com/don/xebig.html#c) >> >> "All capacitors should be rated at a minimum of 350V (preferably 450V). The >> storage capacitor can be a standard electrolytic, but its life will >> be limited >> due to the high discharge current. You might be able to get hold of a few >> disposable cameras and nab the capacitors from these (they probably >> won't last >> very long either, but they're cheap :-)" >> >> (http://sound.westhost.com/project65.htm) >> >> -- Craig >> >> >> Quoting Gary Gower : >> >> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower >> > >> > I think that the capacitor problem is not a buy or no buy decision >> > maker, because all of them use a capacitor of some sort to make the >> > flash.., and as any electrical part can fail any moment. I have >> > Aeroflash for about 3 years (2 in the box and almost one flying) with >> > no problem (knock wood). >> > >> > In case of capacitor fails, well we just will buy another one and >> > carefully change it, like the light bulbs... >> > >> > Saludos >> > Gary Gower. >> > (No expert in strob light area, just plain common sense). >> > >> > Dan Ribb wrote: >> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Ribb" >> > >> > I don't have access to a wing tip yet to measure but I did ask a factory >> > rep this very question the day I flew the factory plane. The other >> > concern I had was the mounting areas angle forward a bit so I was >> > afraid the rear facing white lights might be obstructed from the rear. >> > They assured me they work fine and several builders have used >> > them successfully. Now I'm not sure about the brand, I was also >> > looking at the ones from Whelen. >> > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/whelena600strobe.php >> > >> > >> > Dan Ribb >> > Fresno, CA >> > 601XL tail kit 5% done >> > >> > >> >> I saw a Nav-Strobe-Position light set on the Aeroflash web site. >> >> >> >> http://www.aeroflash.com/aeroflash_nav_strobe_position.php >> >> >> >> I don't have access to a XL wing tip to see if this light assemble >> >> will fit on the mounting area. The light base is 1.759 X 5.565 inches. >> >> Would someone mind seeing if this light assembly will be usable with >> >> the ZAC-supplied wing tips? Any other concerns I'm missing? >> > >> > >> > --------------------------------- >> > Let fate take it's course directly to your email. >> > >> > >> >> > > --------------------------------------------- > Paul Mulwitz > 32013 NE Dial Road > Camas, WA 98607 > --------------------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:26:42 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 701 Design Question. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower The bow in the middle, is part of the "structure rigidy" of the "box" fuselage. Just remember the experiment of the egg, will not brake as easy pushing from the ends that from the sides... also how an arc in a bridge "works" as a structure when weight is aplied in the center (this is a very looong arc). This type of structure "trick" is used to lower the caliber (and weight of course) of the aluminum chanel used as longerons... Al this (including the bunch of "Ls"), are part of the rigidity of the semi monocoque type of design of the Zenith Airplanes. Yes, Mr Heintz is a Genius. Is extremly dificult to design Simple and Efective things... Saludos Gary Gower. (also Industrial Engineer to earn my living) Zodie Rocket wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" Hi Chris, Nick or Chris Heintz are the best people in which to get the facts from concerning your question. But that doesn't stop any of us pondering it and offering suggestions as to the design choices. The CH701 does one thing exceptionally well! It has a STOL performance which is hard to match by any other aircraft including the planes clones. Originally the CH701's design called out for a 503 power plant and a 68-72 inch prop. My line of thinking is that the fuselage was designed to allow the most thrust from the prop with the least amount of power. By bowing in the middle, I believe that it allows the plane to perform better in the STOL conditions in which it was designed for. Now with the design changes and the increased gross to accommodate the Rotax 912 series I doubt that this design portion is still a necessity. But knowing Chris Heintz, simplicity rules and why change for change sake. Well that's my 2 cents, sounds good in my grey matter. Though I could be totally wrong, when I see Chris later this month I will ask him. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bill naumuk Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Design Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "bill naumuk" Chris- This sounds like a question for Nick. Try "Technical Questions" through the Zenith website. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Lewis" Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Design Question > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Chris Lewis > > Greetings from Seattle- > > I'm beginning the 701 plans building adventure and have been pouring over my plans for several weeks and have a question or two. > > I notice that the fuselage is wider at the bottom than at the top. Anyone know why it's not truly square? Same for the fusealge sides and top. They bow slightly in the middle. > > Thanks for everyone's contributions to this list. It's been amazing what I've been able to learn. > > Chris Lewis > Seattle Area > --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:06 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aeroflash Nav-Strobe-Position lights on XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Mmmm... Definitly not my area :-) Thanks for your answer Craig, I though of looking for the number and ordering a couple at the local Radio Shack, in case of failure... Hope they dont fail :-( Saludos Gary Gower. craig@craigandjean.com wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: craig@craigandjean.com Capacitors driving xenon flash tubes are not off-the-shelf capacitors. I believe capacitors suitable for flash units have less internal Resistance. I would think the internal heating effects would be especially important in a strobe that repetitively fires. "Please note that the above electrolytic capacitors generally do well only with flash durations at least half a millisecond, preferably a millisecond. For shorter flashes likely with repeating strobes, I recommend laser energy storage capacitors or a bank of AC-rated motor run capacitors." (http://members.misty.com/don/xebig.html#c) "All capacitors should be rated at a minimum of 350V (preferably 450V). The storage capacitor can be a standard electrolytic, but its life will be limited due to the high discharge current. You might be able to get hold of a few disposable cameras and nab the capacitors from these (they probably won't last very long either, but they're cheap :-)" (http://sound.westhost.com/project65.htm) -- Craig Quoting Gary Gower : > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower > > I think that the capacitor problem is not a buy or no buy decision > maker, because all of them use a capacitor of some sort to make the > flash.., and as any electrical part can fail any moment. I have > Aeroflash for about 3 years (2 in the box and almost one flying) with > no problem (knock wood). > > In case of capacitor fails, well we just will buy another one and > carefully change it, like the light bulbs... > > Saludos > Gary Gower. > (No expert in strob light area, just plain common sense). > > Dan Ribb wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Ribb" > > I don't have access to a wing tip yet to measure but I did ask a factory > rep this very question the day I flew the factory plane. The other > concern I had was the mounting areas angle forward a bit so I was > afraid the rear facing white lights might be obstructed from the rear. > They assured me they work fine and several builders have used > them successfully. Now I'm not sure about the brand, I was also > looking at the ones from Whelen. > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/whelena600strobe.php > > > Dan Ribb > Fresno, CA > 601XL tail kit 5% done > > >> I saw a Nav-Strobe-Position light set on the Aeroflash web site. >> >> http://www.aeroflash.com/aeroflash_nav_strobe_position.php >> >> I don't have access to a XL wing tip to see if this light assemble >> will fit on the mounting area. The light base is 1.759 X 5.565 inches. >> Would someone mind seeing if this light assembly will be usable with >> the ZAC-supplied wing tips? Any other concerns I'm missing? > > > --------------------------------- > Let fate take it's course directly to your email. > > --------------------------------- Let fate take it's course directly to your email. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:53 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Aeroflash Nav-Strobe-Position lights on XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" Yup, I spent part of my childhood vaporizing Radio Shack capacitors with strobe tubes. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aeroflash Nav-Strobe-Position lights on XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Mmmm... Definitly not my area :-) Thanks for your answer Craig, I though of looking for the number and ordering a couple at the local Radio Shack, in case of failure... Hope they dont fail :-( Saludos Gary Gower. craig@craigandjean.com wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: craig@craigandjean.com Capacitors driving xenon flash tubes are not off-the-shelf capacitors. I believe capacitors suitable for flash units have less internal Resistance. I would think the internal heating effects would be especially important in a strobe that repetitively fires. "Please note that the above electrolytic capacitors generally do well only with flash durations at least half a millisecond, preferably a millisecond. For shorter flashes likely with repeating strobes, I recommend laser energy storage capacitors or a bank of AC-rated motor run capacitors." (http://members.misty.com/don/xebig.html#c) "All capacitors should be rated at a minimum of 350V (preferably 450V). The storage capacitor can be a standard electrolytic, but its life will be limited due to the high discharge current. You might be able to get hold of a few disposable cameras and nab the capacitors from these (they probably won't last very long either, but they're cheap :-)" (http://sound.westhost.com/project65.htm) -- Craig Quoting Gary Gower : > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower > > I think that the capacitor problem is not a buy or no buy decision > maker, because all of them use a capacitor of some sort to make the > flash.., and as any electrical part can fail any moment. I have > Aeroflash for about 3 years (2 in the box and almost one flying) with > no problem (knock wood). > > In case of capacitor fails, well we just will buy another one and > carefully change it, like the light bulbs... > > Saludos > Gary Gower. > (No expert in strob light area, just plain common sense). > > Dan Ribb wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Ribb" > > I don't have access to a wing tip yet to measure but I did ask a > factory rep this very question the day I flew the factory plane. The > other concern I had was the mounting areas angle forward a bit so I > was afraid the rear facing white lights might be obstructed from the rear. > They assured me they work fine and several builders have used them > successfully. Now I'm not sure about the brand, I was also looking at > the ones from Whelen. > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/whelena600strobe.php > > > Dan Ribb > Fresno, CA > 601XL tail kit 5% done > > >> I saw a Nav-Strobe-Position light set on the Aeroflash web site. >> >> http://www.aeroflash.com/aeroflash_nav_strobe_position.php >> >> I don't have access to a XL wing tip to see if this light assemble >> will fit on the mounting area. The light base is 1.759 X 5.565 inches. >> Would someone mind seeing if this light assembly will be usable with >> the ZAC-supplied wing tips? Any other concerns I'm missing? > > > --------------------------------- > Let fate take it's course directly to your email. > > --------------------------------- Let fate take it's course directly to your email.