Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:01 AM - Re: LSA cruise speed. (Dave Austin)
2. 05:59 AM - Re: LSA cruise speed. (Paul Mulwitz)
3. 06:05 AM - Re: 701 With Lift Reserve Indicator (ruruny@aol.com)
4. 07:00 AM - Re: 701 With Lift Reserve Indicator (John Flavin)
5. 07:46 AM - Re: HD vs HDS (Leo Gates)
6. 07:57 AM - Re: Corrosion Protection (Robert N. Eli)
7. 08:03 AM - Water primer (Bob Unternaehrer)
8. 08:03 AM - Re: Corrosion Protection (Bob Unternaehrer)
9. 08:41 AM - Article on 601XL SLSA in EAA Sport Pilot magazine (Jim Pellien)
10. 08:42 AM - Re: New Airplane Subject (bill naumuk)
11. 08:46 AM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protection (Randy L. Thwing)
12. 08:49 AM - Re: HD vs HDS (Larry McFarland)
13. 09:20 AM - Oil filter location (Bob Unternaehrer)
14. 09:20 AM - corrosion (Bob Unternaehrer)
15. 10:41 AM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protection (Paul Moore)
16. 11:25 AM - FW: Steering boots for Zodiacs (Craig Payne)
17. 11:43 AM - Re: New Airplane Subject (Craig Payne)
18. 11:47 AM - Re: New Airplane Subject (Craig Payne)
19. 11:53 AM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protection (ROBERT SCEPPA)
20. 12:04 PM - Re: Exhaust fumes in 601 cabin (Craig Payne)
21. 12:26 PM - Re: corrosion (Randy)
22. 12:40 PM - Re: Exhaust fumes - CO Detectors (Craig Payne)
23. 12:40 PM - Re: Corrosion Protection (MikeH)
24. 12:54 PM - Re: corrosion (Bryan Martin)
25. 12:55 PM - Hang-up a Zodiac XL under hangar roof (Martin Pohl)
26. 12:56 PM - Re: Steering arm boots (Craig Payne)
27. 01:05 PM - Re: Exhaust fumes in 601 cabin (Bryan Martin)
28. 01:21 PM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protection (Bryan Martin)
29. 01:22 PM - Re: Exhaust fumes in 601 cabin (Larry McFarland)
30. 01:38 PM - GPH Corvair (ABGS)
31. 02:21 PM - Re: Hang-up a Zodiac XL under hangar roof (Craig Payne)
32. 03:05 PM - Re: Hang-up a Zodiac XL under hangar roof (Larry McFarland)
33. 03:05 PM - Re: HD vs HDS (ron dewees)
34. 03:06 PM - Re: New Airplane Subject (Edward Moody II)
35. 03:17 PM - Re: New Airplane Subject (Craig Payne)
36. 03:36 PM - Re: New Airplane Subject (Edward Moody II)
37. 03:45 PM - Re: Hang-up a Zodiac XL under hangar roof (Bob Unternaehrer)
38. 03:51 PM - Re: New Airplane Subject (Richard Hutson)
39. 04:26 PM - Re: Hang-up a Zodiac XL under hangar roof (B Johnson)
40. 04:27 PM - Re: New Airplane Subject (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
41. 04:38 PM - Re: Corrosion Protection (lynn dingfelder)
42. 04:44 PM - Re: Hang-up a Zodiac XL under hangar roof (Craig Payne)
43. 04:56 PM - Re: Exhaust fumes in 601 cabin (Craig Payne)
44. 05:26 PM - Re: Exhaust fumes in 601 cabin (Bryan Martin)
45. 05:28 PM - Re: Hang-up a Zodiac XL under hangar roof (Bryan Martin)
46. 05:46 PM - Re: New Airplane Subject (JOHN STARN)
47. 05:54 PM - Re: New Airplane Subject (Edward Moody II)
48. 05:58 PM - Re: Hang-up a Zodiac XL under hangar roof (B Johnson)
49. 06:02 PM - Re: New Airplane Subject (Craig Payne)
50. 06:13 PM - Re: Hang-up a Zodiac XL under hangar roof (Craig Payne)
51. 06:55 PM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protection (Randy L. Thwing)
52. 07:16 PM - Re: New Airplane Subject - Kit Purchase (N5SL)
53. 08:00 PM - [ Craig Payne ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
54. 08:03 PM - [ Craig Payne ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
55. 08:09 PM - Re: 701 With Lift Reserve Indicator (Gary Gower)
56. 08:32 PM - Mexico - south of US, that is (Steve Hulland)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: LSA cruise speed. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@sprint.ca>
Paul,
Does an air adjustable prop drive you into the medical requirement thing?
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: LSA cruise speed. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Dave,
Yes, an adjustable prop takes you out of the LSA definition if it is
adjustable in flight. I interpret that to mean anything from a
cockpit controllable pitch prop to a constant speed prop. Ground
adjustable props are OK.
Of course, my logic is if a plane is not LSA compliant then you need
a private pilot license and medical certificate to legally fly
it. (I am ignoring part 103 ultralights and recreational pilot certificates.)
After a bunch of searching, I finally found the real definition of a
Light-Sport Aircraft in the Federal Regulations. Here is a link to
the definition counts:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?type=simple;c=ecfr;cc=ecfr;sid=eb4cc410189c114f898c3dfedc1369d9;region=DIV1;q1=light-sport%20aircraft;rgn=div7;view=text;idno=20040727;node=20040727%3A1.0.26
Paul
XL wings
Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@sprint.ca>
>Paul,
>Does an air adjustable prop drive you into the medical requirement thing?
>Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 701 With Lift Reserve Indicator |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ruruny@aol.com
Doug,
Go here:
http://www.liming.org/ch801/
You will find a description on: Instruments page 1
Wing install pics and descrip on: Wings page 4
This is an 801 wing but it might work for you.
Thank Gary Liming
Brian
Do not Archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 701 With Lift Reserve Indicator |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Flavin" <jf701@bellsouth.net>
"Has anyone mounted a LRI on a 701 wing? If so, where did you mount it (how far
back from the leading edge, how far out on the wing)? Did you just add an
inspection plate or do something else?"
Doug:
I'm not flying yet so can't comment on LRI performance. As for mounting, I put
it just aft of of the spar and centered between the 5th and 6th rear ribs on
the right wing. My rationale for putting it there is that it keeps it well clear
of prop, fuselage, and strut-generated turbulence, and the front of the probe
ends up about where the mounting instructions call for on the airfoil. Might
get a little turbulence from the wingtip, but I think it'll be ok there.
To mount it, I made a "doubler" out of .032 roughly the same size as the mounting
plate that comes with the LRI. I riveted it inside the wing (dimpling the
rivet holes to keep the outside surface flush) along with a L-angle running between
RR5 and RR6 to stiffen the skin. The LRI mounting plate then fastens to
the wing from the outside with screws through the skin and doubler into nutplates.
Structurally, makes for a nice solid mount even on the light skin, and
serves as its own access hole cover. However, it looks a little crude since
the LRI mounting plate is bolted to the bottom of the skin. If I was to do it
over again, I'd probably use the LRI mounting plate as the doubler mounted inside
the skin, and make a separate slush-mount access hole behind it.
Let me know if you could use photos. I think the LRI is going to be a great piece
of gear on a plane like the 701.
John Flavin
Raleigh, NC
tail, wings done, working on flaperons.
Message 5
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Gates" <leogates@allvantage.com>
Randy,
I'm going to add my 2 cents worth. Short answer - I would not recommend 1300
lbs in a HDS.
During flight testing last May, here in San Antonio area, I loaded the plane
in 25 lb increments to 1325 lbs. OAT 86 degrees. At 1275 lbs the takeoff
run was about 1200 ft, grass strip, ROC 3-400 fpm. At 1300 lbs the takeoff
run was about 1500 ft. ROC 2-300 fpm. At 1325 lbs the takeoff run was 1800
ft, ROC 1-200 fpm. Rotax 912. Magnum in-flight adjustable Ivoprop. 5800
RPM (Max) at takeoff and initial climb. At 1325 lbs I took off and climbed
to 2,000 ft AGL. RPM reduced to 5,500, max continuous cruise. From level
cruise, which required nose up about 6 degrees, raise the nose 2-3 degrees
more - climb 2-300 fpm. Raise the nose a couple degrees more - mush and
decent at about 3-400 fpm. Back to level and drop the nose 2-3 degrees -
rapid acceleration to 140 mph and descend at 3-400 fpm. Scary!
I have set my max gross at 1200 lbs.
Leo Gates
N601Z, HDS, Taildragger
-------Original Message-------
From: Randy Stout
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: HD vs HDS
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" <n282rs@earthlink.net>
Thanks Larry
You didn't make the decision any easier though. Have you loaded you plane
up to 1300 lbs? If I'm by myself, I can keep the gross weight to 1200 lbs
or less. When I go on a cross country with my wife, it goes up to nearly
1300 lbs. I'm afraid I'd lose a significant amount of climb at that weight
with the HDS wings.
You are right about climbing above the turbulence and I usually do, but
there is frequently too low of a ceiling to do that. Plus I have to land in
the turbulence. Landings can get real interesting.
Maybe I'll just think about it some more and hopefully see ya'll at the
Open Hangar in August.
Randy Stout
n282rs"at"earthlink.net
www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Corrosion Protection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert N. Eli" <robert.eli@adelphia.net>
I started out using Cortec 373 on the interior rudder surfaces and
stabilizer, as supplied by Zenith. I was having significant difficultly
finding building time, and the corrosion protection process greatly
lengthens the build time for me. So I discussed this issue once again with
Chris Heintz, and Chris's sons at this year's Air Venture. They repeated
what they had told me in the past, that the aircraft were originally
designed to avoid the need for corrosion protection, using the 6061 T6
silicon-based aluminum alloy. They told me that it was acceptable not use
any interior corrosion protection, so I am continuing my building without
its use. As a result, I am now able to make reasonable progress, given my
tight schedule.
Bob Eli
CH701
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Corrosion Protection
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
I'm not using any corrosion control on internal parts. This is based
on recommendation from Joe Norris of EAA suggesting such treatment is
only really needed for planes based in harsh smog or salt-air
environments found near oceans. I do plan to paint the exterior of my
plane.
Paul
XL wings
> What are most builders using for interior corrosion
> protection? I've found little in the archives. It appears that the
> Alodine 1201 treatment will be sufficient for my upper midwest
> location, without the additional weight and complication of a zinc
> type primer. Is there a better (more economical) way / place to
> purchase the Alodine and Alumiprep 33 than Aircraft Spruce and Wicks?
>
>Lynn Dingfelder
>
>Corry, PA
>
>601 XL / Corvair
-
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
Does anyone know where to get the water based "gortex" or how ever you say it,
primer that Zenith uses.
Blue Skies
Bob Unternaehrer
shilocom@mcmsys.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
<<<I'm washing all parts with Dawn and scotch bright pads to degrease and
swirl
> the surface for paint adhesion, Metalprep 79 wash, Alodine 1001 wash, then
> zinc chromate on all mating surfaces. I will easily finish the entire
> airframe with 1 gallon of Metalprep concentrate ($15) and 1 gallon of
> Alodine concentrate ($15). Certainly well within my plane building budget
> considering the benefit.
>
Hi Paul...Concerning the metal prep I think I basically agree,,,how ever if
you plan on priming the out side of the airplane with the same thing,,,some
paints, especially eurathanes, will lift the zinc chromate. I'm using a
self etching epoxy primer now made be Dupont under the Nasson brand. It
mixes 1:1 which makes things easy,,,Leftovers keep in the refrigerator for 1
to 2 weeks, maybe longer and no topcoats seem to effect it. I really
haven't tried brushing or rolling it on interior surfaces, but bet it wold
work. I'm thinking about eliminating the alodine process and just do a good
cleaning, either with dawn as you do or with dawn then an acid wash. Most
professionals say that alodyine is not required be cause that's why they
call it self etching primer.
bob U.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Article on 601XL SLSA in EAA Sport Pilot magazine |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Pellien" <jim@pellien.com>
There is a short article on the SLSA certification of our CH-601XL in the
December 2005 issue of the EAA Sport Pilot magazine. It is on page 19.
Also, Plane and Pilot has a notice on our sport pilot school on page 15 on
the far right side of the page.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: New Airplane Subject |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "bill naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gower" <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Airplane Subject
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
>
> Thank you very much Kevin, Is difcult to understand that there are still
people in USA that think that Mexico is like in the Cowboys movies of John
Wayne...
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower
> Guadalajara, Mexico.
> Do not Archive.
Gary-
My calculator goes exponential when trying to compute what percentage of
the world's population are Zenith builders. There is no one within 100m
radius of me building a Zenith, so I'm grateful for any help I can get. I
feel we are a very small band of brothers, and to Hell with geopolitics.
Saludos, amigo
Bill Naumuk
Townville, Pa.
do not archive
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
A little clarification is needed here. Is the RV8 kit furnished with 2024 bare
or clad? Only the Alclad has the higher corrosion resistant; pure al coating.
Aircraft manufacturers have used either. My '48 Bonanza is 2024Alclad, inside
of fuse still looks shiney and new, our '59, first issue C-150, which was
manufactured using a left over C-140 fuse, is made of bare 2024, no shiney metal
there.
For many years I lived in Kodiak, Alaska, a fishing community, where a minor industry
is building
tender skiffs for fishing boats, they just saw them out of 6061, weld them
up and off into salt water without any further protection and they don't melt!
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
> I don't know why you would get flamed for that. The RV8 is made of 2024
> alloy which has a relatively low corrosion resistance. The pure aluminum
> cladding protects the outside
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Yes Randy,
I loaded up the plane during the test phase with salt pellet bags
wrapped in plastic sheet (to keep the salt inside).
The plane is designed for 1200 lbs, 5.5 Gs, and it does land well with
1300 lbs, 3.5Gs, but you have to be delicate on
touch downs and rough air. I've still got the original 1/8" gear strut
plates that are causing a few 601s to separate from
the forks on landings, so I seldom load to max. I'm making replacement
plates and stubs that will slip up into a cut-off
strut as we speak. Drawings have been submitted to ZAC for approval of
a bolted strut plate of .196 thickness.
The HD is a real lifting machine and it only generates enough drag to be
a bit bothersome for long distances.
The HDS generates more than adequate lift far in excess of Cessna 150s
and will outclimb them despite the short
wings. Just me, climb is 1100 fpm at 75 mph and with my son and fuel,
we get 800 fpm which does slow at 5000 ft as we go
higher. Getting up there is not difficult, but max loads at 1300 lbs
for grass strips and convectives is worrysome.
Weather permitting, I'll make it there next year.
Larry
Randy Stout wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" <n282rs@earthlink.net>
>
>Thanks Larry
>
>You didn't make the decision any easier though. Have you loaded you plane
>up to 1300 lbs? If I'm by myself, I can keep the gross weight to 1200 lbs
>or less. When I go on a cross country with my wife, it goes up to nearly
>1300 lbs. I'm afraid I'd lose a significant amount of climb at that weight
>with the HDS wings.
>
>You are right about climbing above the turbulence and I usually do, but
>there is frequently too low of a ceiling to do that. Plus I have to land in
>the turbulence. Landings can get real interesting.
>
>Maybe I'll just think about it some more and hopefully see ya'll at the
>Open Hangar in August.
>
>Randy Stout
>n282rs"at"earthlink.net
>www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
>
>
>
>
>>[Original Message]
>>From: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
>>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>>Date: 12/10/2005 9:43:15 AM
>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: HD vs HDS
>>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
>>
>>Randy,
>>I've flew with Kelly Meiste in his HD before I flew my HDS and was
>>impressed with the HD. Then flying my HDS for a period of
>>70 hours, I'd acquired perspective for the shorter wing without being
>>aware of a significant difference. Then we both lifted off from Clinton
>>with
>>his HD in front and a plan to fly side by side at altitude. With a
>>17-degree pitch, I could perhaps fly much faster, but no way could I gain
>>the altitude as rapidly as the HD. I had to ask Kelly to back off a bit
>>so I could climb up. Flying side by side we were o.k. but occasionally
>>if I slowed down too much, I had the sensation that the HDS was about to
>>drop out of the air. I felt we could do a trip together within
>>
>>
>overlapping
>
>
>>speeds without any difficulty. He can outclimb the HDS much more
>>effectively than I can outrun his on the top end. There's only
>>something like a 20-mph
>>difference. On performance, I like the HDS handling better because it
>>rolls quickly, approach and landings are steady without any float,
>>flares catch
>>enough ground cushion to make for greaser landings. Short fields of
>>1600 feet with corn standing at each end are doable, but would require
>>
>>
>more
>
>
>>practice for me in the HDS. If I flew from a grass strip of less than
>>2000 feet, I'd have built HD wings. We both have Stratus Subaru engines.
>>I believe
>>he is pitched at 15-1/2 degrees. If I were doing another set of wings,
>>I'd consider constant chord wings at a 24 foot span. Better lift at
>>middle speeds.
>>My HDS cruises easily at 4700 rpm and 120 mph and at 5100 rpm can reach
>>133 for 10 minutes until oil temps climb above my set limit of 235 Deg
>>F. (260 is max)
>>The HDS wings smooth out convective air better and I can trim to hands
>>off most days, but you only have to go higher for that. I think where
>>you land should
>>have the most impart to what wings you need.
>>
>>Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>>do not archive
>>
>>Randy Stout wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Randy Stout <n282rs@earthlink.net>
>>>
>>>
>>>I know a couple of you have considered changing your HD wings for HDS
>>>
>>>
>wings, or vice versa. Do any of you have enough time flying with each type
>to describe the differences? Did you loose/gain any climb, service ceiling,
>or any other kind of performance? Did it make any difference in the
>handling? I'm thinking about building a set of HDS wings to put on my HD.
>One of the things I'm hoping to improve is a smoother ride. Those HD wings
>have a tendancy to bounce me around pretty good on windy or hot days. I
>guess I need something to build again.
>
>
>>>Randy Stout
>>>n282rs@earthlink.net
>>>www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Oil filter location |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
<<<<<I notice
that WW has now used longer oil lines to move his to the lower firewall on
the XL - anyone have a clue why the change?
>>>
Leaks and loss of oil when changing filter can get pretty messy on top of the engine,
not to mention any fire hazzard.
Blue Skies
Bob Unternaehrer
shilocom@mcmsys.com
Message 14
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
<<<>
I think some of the reccomendations should be based also on what metal is being
used. 6061-T6 is a lot more prone to corrosion than 2024-T3 with alumiclad.
I believe most , if not all Zenith skins are 6061-T6, Most Cessnas I've seen
are still internally primed and use 2024-T3 alumiclad.. Could be wrong.
Blue Skies
Bob Unternaehrer
shilocom@mcmsys.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Moore" <pmoore505@msn.com>
That's very interesting to know Randy. Do you know if the thickness of the
material may be a factor? I'm assuming a thicker gauge boat skin and less
obvious effect from corrosion vs. a thinner aircraft skin where even the
slightest corrosion will compromise the necessary strength..?
Paul
XL - O200
..they just saw them out of 6061, weld them up and off into salt water
without any further protection and they don't melt!...
Do Not Archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | FW: Steering boots for Zodiacs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
I'm passing on what Jim sent to me. I still remember some Honda auto part
being used by somebody.
-- Craig
_____
From: Jim Pensinger [mailto:jim@pensinger.net]
Subject: Steering boots
These boots were recommended to me and I used them and am very happy.
The P/N are:
8CR-2198F-00-00 - COVER - $15.21
8CR-2195E-00-00 - PLATE, STRG BRACKET 1 - $13.11
These are used on a 2001 MM600F snowmobile.
You have to order from a Yamaha Snowmobile dealer. Other Yamaha dealers are
not allowed to order snowmobile parts. I ordered mine from a place in Ohio
- phone # 937-278-8081
Jim
www.tn004.com/N250JP
Message 17
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| Subject: | New Airplane Subject |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Not mention all the hi-tech gear made along the Mexico/Texas boarder and in
mainland China. Chances are that your home contains many parts or entire
products from supposed lesser-developed products.
And then there are all those "Japanese" cars made in the US and Canada...
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Thorp
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Airplane Subject
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Kevin Thorp <kevin@medamation.com>
Actually Steve, Mexico is in NORTH America, and yes there are a lot of
dirty, small, manufacturing plants there, but there are also a lot of large
modern clean factories that are on par with anything you'd find in the
Western world. Check out the Volkswagen plant in*, *Puebla, Mexico:
http://media.vw.com/photo_display.cfm?photo_id=1886&view=low_res
http://media.vw.com/photo_display.cfm?photo_id=1888&view=low_res
http://media.vw.com/photo_display.cfm?photo_id=1881&view=low_res
Vans has a manufacturing plant in the Far East. AviPro builds Bearhawk kits
in Mexico.
Maybe Zenith isn't creating a lot of publicity about their new operation
because they're worried people will be concerned about quality. Or
outsourcing jobs.
As far as quality, judging from the Zenith photos of their new plant and
assembly fixtures, it seems like they're running a very professional
operation.
I can't complain too much about outsourcing; I work in the US at a plant
owned by Germans!
Steve Hulland wrote:
>--> Not sure such a clean plant can easily be had in Mexico, SA.<--
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | New Airplane Subject |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Wow. The only thing that I found with Google was a company in Columbia (the
country, not the district) called Aero Levar.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Al Young
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Airplane Subject
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" <armyret@one-eleven.net>
Craig- As I understand it the QB kits are being made in Argentina.
Al Young
601XL
Do not archive
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep@yahoo.com>
> You know, all you guys are going to nuts over this.
I bought a
> can of Rustoleum Galvanizing compound spray. Its a
gray primer
> with built in etch and chromate paint. Theres no
reason to be
> going through all the mess with aluminum etch and
alodine
> process. 6061 T6 is already a corrosion resistant
metal. I have
> pieces of bare 6061 laying around for years and none
of it
> has ever shown signs of corrosion. I also have 2024
stock that
> has been corroding. Thats the metal that rally needs
corrosion
> proofing. hope that clears up any doubts.
--- Bill Pagan <pdn8r@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Pagan
> <pdn8r@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi Lynn,
>
> Should be plenty of "primer wars" in the archives
> but since you posted your message get ready for the
> onslaught as many builders have very strong opinions
> about priming, not priming and what to prime with.
> I used the Sherwin Williams GBP 988 self etching
> primer on my RV-8A but will most likley get flamed
> just for saying that. :-)
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> Bill Pagan
> Florida
>
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
> www.buildersbooks.com,
> Admin.
> _->
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Exhaust fumes in 601 cabin |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Thanks! Do you have any problems with the grommets binding on the shafts? I
would think that a bushing of nylon might slide over the rod better. But I
guess you need the flexibility of the grommets to cope with the vertical
movement of the nose gear.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry McFarland
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Exhaust fumes in 601 cabin
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland
--> <larrymc@qconline.com>
Craig,
I made a slider panel with a rubber grommet to seal each stearing arm coming
thru the firewall and have had no exhaust or engine odors come in. Probably
easier to make and install and they occupy less space in the pedal area.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Craig Payne wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
>--> <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
>Somewhere there is a picture of putting Honda (clutch, accelerator,
>brake?) rubber boots on the steering links.
>
>Does anyone remember where I saw it? :-)
>
>As a back-up I also have one of these CO detectors:
>
>http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/coguardian4.php
>
>-- Craig
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy" <rpf@wi.rr.com>
Is the statement below true? Everything I've heard or read states 6061 is
LESS prone to corrosion than 2024.
Randy
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: corrosion
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer"
> <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
>
> <<<>
>
> I think some of the reccomendations should be based also on what metal is
> being used. 6061-T6 is a lot more prone to corrosion than 2024-T3 with
> alumiclad. I believe most , if not all Zenith skins are 6061-T6, Most
> Cessnas I've seen are still internally primed and use 2024-T3 alumiclad..
> Could be wrong.
>
> Blue Skies
> Bob Unternaehrer
> shilocom@mcmsys.com
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Exhaust fumes - CO Detectors |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
For what it is worth I spent more to get a detector that (I hope) was
designed for an airplane's panel and not the wall of a house. It certainly
is more compact than the home units. Good-point: it is powered from the
plane. Bad-point: it is powered from the plane. But if my "essential" power
buss goes dead I may have other, more immediate worries.
It may not matter in our relatively leaky cockpits but I think that CO is
heavier than air. Does any one know if that is true?
AS&S offers a number of units at different price-points:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/catalog/Cat06612.pdf
The page in the manufacture's for my model is:
http://www.aerocraftparts.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=AERO-352&Category=f04666b9-
795d-4d82-a91e-db1f8579255d
-- Craig
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: MikeH <mhilderbrand@cox.net>
Bob Unternaehrer wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
>
>
><<<I'm washing all parts with Dawn and scotch bright pads to degrease and
>swirl
>
>
>>the surface for paint adhesion, Metalprep 79 wash, Alodine 1001 wash, then
>>zinc chromate on all mating surfaces. I will easily finish the entire
>>airframe with 1 gallon of Metalprep concentrate ($15) and 1 gallon of
>>Alodine concentrate ($15). Certainly well within my plane building budget
>>considering the benefit.
>>
>>
>>
>
>I am also using the Dupont 2 -part epoxy primer _Nason_. Etch primer 491-17. reducer
441-43. I just brush it on with a foam brush where 2 metal parts go together.
It seems to work good so far.
>
mike
>
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
You've got that statement backwards. 6061 is much more corrosion resistant
than 2024. The aluminum cladding on 2024 ALCLAD does does stop corrosion
from occurring on the clad surface but the metal is only clad on the outside
surface. The inside surface of 2024 ALCLAD will corrode much more readily
than 6061.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
on 12/11/05 11:07 AM, Bob Unternaehrer at shilocom@mcmsys.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
>
> <<<>
>
> I think some of the reccomendations should be based also on what metal is
> being used. 6061-T6 is a lot more prone to corrosion than 2024-T3 with
> alumiclad. I believe most , if not all Zenith skins are 6061-T6, Most
> Cessnas I've seen are still internally primed and use 2024-T3 alumiclad..
> Could be wrong.
>
> Blue Skies
> Bob Unternaehrer
> shilocom@mcmsys.com
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Hang-up a Zodiac XL under hangar roof |
Fuz1=3 Fuz2=3
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Martin Pohl" <mpohl@pohltec.ch>
Hello!
I am building a Zodiac XL. As hangar space is very limited in Switzerland, I
might have to hang my plane under the roof of a hangar. Does anybody know if
I can add 3 attachment points to my XL, that allow me to lift the plane
using "karabiners" instead of belts going below the belly of the plane?
Cheers
Martin
____________________
Martin Pohl
Zodiac XL QBK (CZAW)
Message 26
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| Subject: | Steering arm boots |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Probably will last longer that a rubber part to boot (sorry, couldn't
resist).
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Deiterich
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Steering arm boots
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich"
--> <cfd@thegateway.net>
Bob,
I have a friend who is building a Sonex. He took some fiber glass cloth,
fashioned a boot and impregnated it with silicon cement, some of this stuff
is high temp as well. It is flexible and air tight, for a lot less than
$60.
Chuck D.
N701TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer"
<shilocom@mcmsys.com>
>
> <<< I don't know about Honda boots, but I'd be interested. I'm
> thinking of using the Yamaha boots that others have tried, but they
> seem to cost
around
> $60 total.
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust fumes in 601 cabin |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
I put a length of chrome plated lavatory faucet supply tubing over the
threaded steering rods where they pass through the firewall and used nylon
grommets. The tubing is secured in place with a nut on each end and provides
a smooth bearing surface for the nylon. The slider has enough side to side
clearance in its slots to allow for the sideways motion of the rods as the
nose wheel strut rotates.
http://home.comcast.net/~bryanmmartin/zoom_600.jpg
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
on 12/11/05 3:04 PM, Craig Payne at craig@craigandjean.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> Thanks! Do you have any problems with the grommets binding on the shafts? I
> would think that a bushing of nylon might slide over the rod better. But I
> guess you need the flexibility of the grommets to cope with the vertical
> movement of the nose gear.
>
> -- Craig
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry McFarland
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Exhaust fumes in 601 cabin
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland
> --> <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> Craig,
> I made a slider panel with a rubber grommet to seal each stearing arm coming
> thru the firewall and have had no exhaust or engine odors come in. Probably
> easier to make and install and they occupy less space in the pedal area.
>
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
I believe the RV kits use ALCLAD. The pictures on their website show the
blue plastic wrappers on the aluminum sheets and the kits I've seen have the
same type of wrappers on the aluminum. Alclad generally comes with this
wrapper on the clad side of the sheets to protect it during shipment and
storage, unclad sheets don't usually have this plastic wrapper.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
on 12/11/05 11:43 AM, Randy L. Thwing at n4546v@mindspring.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
>
> A little clarification is needed here. Is the RV8 kit furnished with 2024
> bare or clad? Only the Alclad has the higher corrosion resistant; pure al
> coating. Aircraft manufacturers have used either. My '48 Bonanza is
> 2024Alclad, inside of fuse still looks shiney and new, our '59, first issue
> C-150, which was manufactured using a left over C-140 fuse, is made of bare
> 2024, no shiney metal there.
>
> For many years I lived in Kodiak, Alaska, a fishing community, where a minor
> industry is building
> tender skiffs for fishing boats, they just saw them out of 6061, weld them
> up and off into salt water without any further protection and they don't melt!
>
> Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
>
>> I don't know why you would get flamed for that. The RV8 is made of 2024
>> alloy which has a relatively low corrosion resistance. The pure aluminum
>> cladding protects the outside
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust fumes in 601 cabin |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Craig,
The assembly is a 3-piece sandwich with the center .032 material cut out
to allow the slider .025 material to slip
up and down about 2-3/4-inches as well as right and left a quarter of an
inch. The grommet only seals the rod to the hole
in the slider and slips on the rod without binding or wear. The 3-sheet
periphery of the assembly is riveted with A4s heads flush to
the side that is toward the firewall. A bolt at top and one thru the
bent flange at the bottom
are all that holds it at the slot in the firewall. I've had no
problems with this in near 80-hours.
See the bolts that secure and the rod going thru the grommet. You can
make these on the bench and then
drill and bolt them in place after a little goop is added to the contact
edges. See link below for inside view.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/controllinkages/full/steer-rod-air-barrier.gif
Larry McFarland - 601HDS
Craig Payne wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
>Thanks! Do you have any problems with the grommets binding on the shafts? I
>would think that a bushing of nylon might slide over the rod better. But I
>guess you need the flexibility of the grommets to cope with the vertical
>movement of the nose gear.
>
>-- Craig
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 30
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ABGS" <abgs@impulse.net.au>
Hi All
Could any one know the fuel usage for the corvair motors, WW on his page states
about 5.6 gph @ 75%
Thanks
Fly Safe
Allan
601 XL Serial # 6009
Tail completed starting wings
Cummins Spinners
www.cumminsspinners.com
Message 31
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| Subject: | Hang-up a Zodiac XL under hangar roof |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
There is a diagram somewhere about attaching a ballistic recovery chute to
an XL. It would seem you could use the same locations for your attachments.
I haven't been able to find what I am thinking of with Google. I did just
rediscover that the Zodiacs in Germany are required to have some sort of a
BRS. It would be worth your while to ask Zenith about your specific need and
the more general question about BRS.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Martin Pohl
Subject: Zenith-List: Hang-up a Zodiac XL under hangar roof
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Martin Pohl" <mpohl@pohltec.ch>
Hello!
I am building a Zodiac XL. As hangar space is very limited in Switzerland, I
might have to hang my plane under the roof of a hangar. Does anybody know if
I can add 3 attachment points to my XL, that allow me to lift the plane
using "karabiners" instead of belts going below the belly of the plane?
Cheers
Martin
____________________
Martin Pohl
Zodiac XL QBK (CZAW)
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Hang-up a Zodiac XL under hangar roof |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Martin,
There's a single post lift that enables placing one aircraft over top
another within a hangar and I'd bet that
device would work well with the 601XL. Cannot recollect its name at
present, but if you do a search,...
I've seen these advertised in Sporty's Magazine.. I'd rather make
one of these than buy one as they
are by no means a complex structure. This way you'd have your bird
supported by its gear and still
be tied to terra firma.
Larry McFarland
do not archive
Martin Pohl wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Martin Pohl" <mpohl@pohltec.ch>
>
>Hello!
>
>I am building a Zodiac XL. As hangar space is very limited in Switzerland, I
>might have to hang my plane under the roof of a hangar. Does anybody know if
>I can add 3 attachment points to my XL, that allow me to lift the plane
>using "karabiners" instead of belts going below the belly of the plane?
>
>Cheers
>Martin
>
>____________________
>Martin Pohl
>Zodiac XL QBK (CZAW)
>
>
>
>
Message 33
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Leo,
Thanks for the information. What is the empty weight of your HDS?
Ron
do not archive
Leo Gates wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Gates" <leogates@allvantage.com>
>
> Randy,
>
>I'm going to add my 2 cents worth. Short answer - I would not recommend 1300
>lbs in a HDS.
>
>During flight testing last May, here in San Antonio area, I loaded the plane
>in 25 lb increments to 1325 lbs. OAT 86 degrees. At 1275 lbs the takeoff
>run was about 1200 ft, grass strip, ROC 3-400 fpm. At 1300 lbs the takeoff
>run was about 1500 ft. ROC 2-300 fpm. At 1325 lbs the takeoff run was 1800
>ft, ROC 1-200 fpm. Rotax 912. Magnum in-flight adjustable Ivoprop. 5800
>RPM (Max) at takeoff and initial climb. At 1325 lbs I took off and climbed
>to 2,000 ft AGL. RPM reduced to 5,500, max continuous cruise. From level
>cruise, which required nose up about 6 degrees, raise the nose 2-3 degrees
>more - climb 2-300 fpm. Raise the nose a couple degrees more - mush and
>decent at about 3-400 fpm. Back to level and drop the nose 2-3 degrees -
>rapid acceleration to 140 mph and descend at 3-400 fpm. Scary!
>
>I have set my max gross at 1200 lbs.
>
>Leo Gates
>N601Z, HDS, Taildragger
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: New Airplane Subject |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
I just told the Heintz brothers and Roger Dubbert that very same thing when
I flew the 601 demo and bult a rudder this week.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: <JAPhillipsGA@aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: New Airplane Subject
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
>
> Dear Thread Friends, have any of you XL guys looked at the RV-12 concept
> plane that Van's is working on ? Looks just about like a XL with pulled
> rivets,
> bubble canopy and 912 mill. Maybe Chris H got it right with the XL. Best
> regards, Bill
>
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | New Airplane Subject |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Did they just smile or did they elaborate?
-- Craig
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: New Airplane Subject |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
For one thing, Zenith is way ahead of Vans on the learning curve for this
plane.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: <Crvsecretary@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Airplane Subject
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
>
>
> No 'maybe' about it, Bill....Chris H DID get it right !!
>
> Sure, Vans was ready for something radical (for them, at least) so why
> not
> go with proven concepts and a proven market?
>
> I am very concerned that ZAC will be able to hold thier own once the
> RV-12
> is released. Vans is the giant in this market and I think ZAC and others
> will
> definitely catch a cold.
>
> Any thoughts, friends?
>
>
> Tracy Smith
> Naugatuck, CT
> 601xl N458XL (reserved)
> do not archive
>
>
> In a message dated 12/9/2005 4:34:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> JAPhillipsGA@aol.com writes:
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
>
> Dear Thread Friends, have any of you XL guys looked at the RV-12 concept
> plane that Van's is working on ? Looks just about like a XL with pulled
> rivets,
> bubble canopy and 912 mill. Maybe Chris H got it right with the XL. Best
> regards, Bill
>
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Hang-up a Zodiac XL under hangar roof |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
They make lifts for stacking 2 planes, but are expensive. bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Pohl" <mpohl@pohltec.ch>
Subject: Zenith-List: Hang-up a Zodiac XL under hangar roof
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Martin Pohl" <mpohl@pohltec.ch>
>
> Hello!
>
> I am building a Zodiac XL. As hangar space is very limited in Switzerland,
I
> might have to hang my plane under the roof of a hangar. Does anybody know
if
> I can add 3 attachment points to my XL, that allow me to lift the plane
> using "karabiners" instead of belts going below the belly of the plane?
>
> Cheers
> Martin
>
> ____________________
> Martin Pohl
> Zodiac XL QBK (CZAW)
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: New Airplane Subject |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard Hutson" <rhutson@midsouth.rr.com>
Since there are no pictures of the rv 12, how do know what it will look
like?
do not archive
> I just told the Heintz brothers and Roger Dubbert that very same thing
> when
> I flew the 601 demo and bult a rudder this week.
>
> >>
>> Dear Thread Friends, have any of you XL guys looked at the RV-12 concept
>> plane that Van's is working on ? Looks just about like a XL with pulled
>> rivets,
>> bubble canopy and 912 mill. Maybe Chris H got it right with the XL. Best
>> regards, Bill
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Hang-up a Zodiac XL under hangar roof |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" <bjohnson@satx.rr.com>
http://www.armaerospace.com/
- Bruce J.
Scratch Building Sonex #593 near San Antonio, TX
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry McFarland
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Hang-up a Zodiac XL under hangar roof
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Martin,
There's a single post lift that enables placing one aircraft over top
another within a hangar and I'd bet that
device would work well with the 601XL. Cannot recollect its name at
present, but if you do a search,...
I've seen these advertised in Sporty's Magazine.. I'd rather make
one of these than buy one as they
are by no means a complex structure. This way you'd have your bird
supported by its gear and still
be tied to terra firma.
Larry McFarland
do not archive
Martin Pohl wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Martin Pohl" <mpohl@pohltec.ch>
>
>Hello!
>
>I am building a Zodiac XL. As hangar space is very limited in Switzerland,
I
>might have to hang my plane under the roof of a hangar. Does anybody know
if
>I can add 3 attachment points to my XL, that allow me to lift the plane
>using "karabiners" instead of belts going below the belly of the plane?
>
>Cheers
>Martin
>
>____________________
>Martin Pohl
>Zodiac XL QBK (CZAW)
>
>
>
--
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Re: New Airplane Subject |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Go to Van's web site and click of RV-12. They have a couple pages about it
and some drawings. Tail feathers are a bit different looking, but the rest looks
real familiar.
Message 41
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|
| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "lynn dingfelder" <ding@tbscc.com>
List,
I guess I got something started with the "corrosion" issue.
To all who responded, thank you for your comments and opinions. I guess we
all have to find our own comfort level in this arena. I certainly now have a
much better understanding of the options, but have not yet chosen my path.
Paul, if possible, I would like to know a source for the
concentrated Alodine and wash solutions you mentioned.
Lynn
Corry, PA
601 XL
Message 42
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| Subject: | Hang-up a Zodiac XL under hangar roof |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Hmm, I couldn't find any prices.
I wonder what happens in an earthquake?
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Johnson
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Hang-up a Zodiac XL under hangar roof
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" <bjohnson@satx.rr.com>
http://www.armaerospace.com/
- Bruce J.
Scratch Building Sonex #593 near San Antonio, TX
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry McFarland
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Hang-up a Zodiac XL under hangar roof
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland
--> <larrymc@qconline.com>
Martin,
There's a single post lift that enables placing one aircraft over top
another within a hangar and I'd bet that device would work well with the
601XL. Cannot recollect its name at present, but if you do a search,...
I've seen these advertised in Sporty's Magazine.. I'd rather make
one of these than buy one as they
are by no means a complex structure. This way you'd have your bird
supported by its gear and still be tied to terra firma.
Larry McFarland
do not archive
Martin Pohl wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Martin Pohl" <mpohl@pohltec.ch>
>
>Hello!
>
>I am building a Zodiac XL. As hangar space is very limited in
>Switzerland,
I
>might have to hang my plane under the roof of a hangar. Does anybody
>know
if
>I can add 3 attachment points to my XL, that allow me to lift the plane
>using "karabiners" instead of belts going below the belly of the plane?
>
>Cheers
>Martin
>
>____________________
>Martin Pohl
>Zodiac XL QBK (CZAW)
>
>
>
--
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | Exhaust fumes in 601 cabin |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
I've posted Larry McFarland's photos and description of his solution to the
list's photo archive. Can I do the same with yours (attributed to you of
course)?
- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Martin
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Exhaust fumes in 601 cabin
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin
--> <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
I put a length of chrome plated lavatory faucet supply tubing over the
threaded steering rods where they pass through the firewall and used nylon
grommets. The tubing is secured in place with a nut on each end and provides
a smooth bearing surface for the nylon. The slider has enough side to side
clearance in its slots to allow for the sideways motion of the rods as the
nose wheel strut rotates.
http://home.comcast.net/~bryanmmartin/zoom_600.jpg
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
on 12/11/05 3:04 PM, Craig Payne at craig@craigandjean.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> Thanks! Do you have any problems with the grommets binding on the shafts?
I
> would think that a bushing of nylon might slide over the rod better. But I
> guess you need the flexibility of the grommets to cope with the vertical
> movement of the nose gear.
>
> -- Craig
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
McFarland
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Exhaust fumes in 601 cabin
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland
> --> <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> Craig,
> I made a slider panel with a rubber grommet to seal each stearing arm
coming
> thru the firewall and have had no exhaust or engine odors come in.
Probably
> easier to make and install and they occupy less space in the pedal area.
>
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
Message 44
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|
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust fumes in 601 cabin |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
Sure, go ahead. I wish I had more photos of it, all I have is the one blow
up of a scanned photo.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
on 12/11/05 7:55 PM, Craig Payne at craig@craigandjean.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> I've posted Larry McFarland's photos and description of his solution to the
> list's photo archive. Can I do the same with yours (attributed to you of
> course)?
>
> - Craig
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Martin
> To: Zenith List
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Exhaust fumes in 601 cabin
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin
> --> <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
>
> I put a length of chrome plated lavatory faucet supply tubing over the
> threaded steering rods where they pass through the firewall and used nylon
> grommets. The tubing is secured in place with a nut on each end and provides
> a smooth bearing surface for the nylon. The slider has enough side to side
> clearance in its slots to allow for the sideways motion of the rods as the
> nose wheel strut rotates.
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~bryanmmartin/zoom_600.jpg
>
Message 45
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|
| Subject: | Re: Hang-up a Zodiac XL under hangar roof |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
The hangar collapses and destroys everything inside. ;)
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
on 12/11/05 7:43 PM, Craig Payne at craig@craigandjean.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> Hmm, I couldn't find any prices.
>
> I wonder what happens in an earthquake?
>
> -- Craig
>
Message 46
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|
| Subject: | Re: New Airplane Subject |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Go to the Van's web site, www.vansaircraft.com/public/rv-12int RV-12
update. There are concept drawings posted. There are more in the RVator
newsletter but that's NOT on-line. There are photos of various sub parts BUT
it's still at least a year & a half away.
HRII N561FS KABONG Do Not Archive
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Airplane Subject
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard Hutson"
> <rhutson@midsouth.rr.com>
>
> Since there are no pictures of the rv 12, how do know what it will look
> like?
> do not archive
Message 47
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|
| Subject: | Re: New Airplane Subject |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
I was just at the factory and my take on the increased lead times for Zenith
kits is this:
First, the company is anything but "on the skids". I saw the factory in
operation on three weekdays consecutively and the staff was busy constantly.
Some were producing parts, stuff was being crated for shippment, some were
setting up for the rudder workshop and then conducting it, and the entire
time Sebastien, Nick, and Roger were ducking out to the office area to
answer phone calls. They have recently purchased a CNC machine which is why
more skins are pre-drilled for builders now. They have just added onto the
factory to make room for that equipment and more production capacity. I got
no impression of winding down or impending implosion....none. Roger Dubbert
is spending every spare minute he can on a new 701 demo plane which will
have all the mods that have been developed since the current one was built.
The 801 four passenger STOL has not been a dynamo of sales for them but the
Zodiac and the 701 are doing just fine as far as I could see.
Second, if lead times are getting longer, wouldn't that suggest to you that
there is a demand, probably a growing demand for their products, at least
right now?
Third, the 601XL is pretty much the embodiment of what Vans is currently
developing as the RV12 concept. Having a forward thinking product on the
market years before your strongest potential competitor is not a red flag
that your company is dying, quite the opposite in fact.
Fourth, the slow cautious growth of the Zenith production facility is quite
understandable if you spend a little time with the brothers Heintz. They are
not wild speculators who take big risks and bet everything on one roll of
the dice. They are conservative dependable folk who are likely to still be
here later when you need them. I got the feeking that they are cautiously
optimistic (very cautiously) regarding the boom in interest that builders
have shown in ELSA. They are growing only at what they feel is a safe pace
in case this bull market turns bearish. If they overextend and interest
drops or turns to other products, they could be seriously hurt or
bankrupted. Instead they chose to grow slowly and feel their way along,
responding to demand without placing any "all in" bets.
Finaly, I ordered the complete 601XL kit Friday and plunked down a 50%
deposit knowing full well that I won't see the kit arrive until March. No
big deal.....
I'm a cautious plodder too. Maybe that's why I feel comfortable doing
business with them. You got this one all wrong Robin.
Ed Moody II
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Airplane Subject
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
>
> Perhaps ZAC is already on the skids. Lead times for kit deliveries
> steadily get longer, and as far as I can see, without commensurate
> increase
> in production. Isn't that one of the red flags that have typically been
> exhibited by past kit producers?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Crvsecretary@aol.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 3:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Airplane Subject
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
> >
> >
> > No 'maybe' about it, Bill....Chris H DID get it right !!
> >
> > Sure, Vans was ready for something radical (for them, at least) so why
> not
> > go with proven concepts and a proven market?
> >
> > I am very concerned that ZAC will be able to hold thier own once the
> RV-12
> > is released. Vans is the giant in this market and I think ZAC and
> others will
> > definitely catch a cold.
> >
> > Any thoughts, friends?
> >
> >
> > Tracy Smith
> > Naugatuck, CT
> > 601xl N458XL (reserved)
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 12/9/2005 4:34:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > JAPhillipsGA@aol.com writes:
> >
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
> >
> > Dear Thread Friends, have any of you XL guys looked at the RV-12
> concept
> > plane that Van's is working on ? Looks just about like a XL with
> pulled
> > rivets,
> > bubble canopy and 912 mill. Maybe Chris H got it right with the XL.
> Best
> > regards, Bill
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
Message 48
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| Subject: | Hang-up a Zodiac XL under hangar roof |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" <bjohnson@satx.rr.com>
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/data/brs-chute-601.pdf
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Hang-up a Zodiac XL under hangar roof
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
There is a diagram somewhere about attaching a ballistic recovery chute to
an XL. It would seem you could use the same locations for your attachments.
I haven't been able to find what I am thinking of with Google. I did just
rediscover that the Zodiacs in Germany are required to have some sort of a
BRS. It would be worth your while to ask Zenith about your specific need and
the more general question about BRS.
-- Craig
--
Message 49
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|
| Subject: | New Airplane Subject |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
I think you lost the ".htm" off of the link. Try this one:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/rv-12int.htm
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN STARN
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Airplane Subject
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Go to the Van's web site, www.vansaircraft.com/public/rv-12int RV-12
update. There are concept drawings posted. There are more in the RVator
newsletter but that's NOT on-line. There are photos of various sub parts BUT
it's still at least a year & a half away.
HRII N561FS KABONG Do Not Archive
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Airplane Subject
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard Hutson"
> <rhutson@midsouth.rr.com>
>
> Since there are no pictures of the rv 12, how do know what it will
> look like?
> do not archive
Message 50
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| Subject: | Hang-up a Zodiac XL under hangar roof |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Thank you very much. I searched the BRS and Zenith sites and couldn't find
it.
The changes are more extensive and uglier than I recall. Looks like
over-kill for just hanging up the plane.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Johnson
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Hang-up a Zodiac XL under hangar roof
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" <bjohnson@satx.rr.com>
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/data/brs-chute-601.pdf
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Hang-up a Zodiac XL under hangar roof
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
--> <craig@craigandjean.com>
There is a diagram somewhere about attaching a ballistic recovery chute to
an XL. It would seem you could use the same locations for your attachments.
I haven't been able to find what I am thinking of with Google. I did just
rediscover that the Zodiacs in Germany are required to have some sort of a
BRS. It would be worth your while to ask Zenith about your specific need and
the more general question about BRS.
-- Craig
--
Message 51
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|
| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
Of course, boats are thicker than airplanes, but I don't recall ever hearing
about corrosion concerns. I am going to contact some of my Pals in Kodiak
and request photos and more info which I will eventually post.
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing
do not archive
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Moore" <pmoore505@msn.com>
>
> That's very interesting to know Randy. Do you know if the thickness of the
> material may be a factor? I'm assuming a thicker gauge boat skin and less
> obvious effect from corrosion vs. a thinner aircraft skin where even the
> slightest corrosion will compromise the necessary strength..?
>
>
> Paul
> XL - O200
>
> ..they just saw them out of 6061, weld them up and off into salt water
> without any further protection and they don't melt!...
>
> Do Not Archive
Message 52
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|
| Subject: | Re: New Airplane Subject - Kit Purchase |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Dr. Ed:
Congratulations - it's great to hear you have taken
the plunge. I'm looking forward to hearing about your
building experience.
Scott Laughlin
601XL / Corvair
www.cooknwithgas.com
Working through the COLD weather when I can stand it!
DO NOT ARCHIVE
--- Edward Moody II <dredmoody@cox.net> wrote:
> I was just at the factory and my take on the
> increased lead times for Zenith
> kits is this:
>
> First, the company is anything but "on the skids".
>
> Finaly, I ordered the complete 601XL kit Friday and
> plunked down a 50%
> deposit knowing full well that I won't see the kit
> arrive until March. No
> big deal.....
> I'm a cautious plodder too. Maybe that's why I feel
> comfortable doing
> business with them. You got this one all wrong
> Robin.
>
> Ed Moody II
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 53
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|
| Subject: | [ Craig Payne ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
Lists: Zenith-List
Subject: Bryan Martin's steering rod baffles
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/craig@craigandjean.com.12.11.2005/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
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Message 54
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| Subject: | [ Craig Payne ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
Lists: Zenith-List
Subject: Larry McFarland's steering rod baffles
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/craig@craigandjean.com-1.12.11.2005/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
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Email the information above and your files and photos to:
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Message 55
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| Subject: | Re: 701 With Lift Reserve Indicator |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Hello Doug,
I cant remember the exact distance from the leading edge we installed ours.
But was from the instructions, no big deal, the isntructions are clear.
The position in the wing has to be ( certain minimal distance) outside the propeller
blast, so we choose to install it near the strut, so the strut will
protect it from the heads, making kind of a triangle with the wing, the probe
and the strut. Same did with the Pitot tube, glad we did, has been saved a lot
of ocasions, the only "head bumpers" are the flaperon hindges.
Follow the instructions about calibrating it, then you will be happy to have
it, just learn to use it properly wth practice, always compare with the airspeed,
that becomes your backup instrument in landing.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
701 912S
Guadalajara, Mexico.
doug kandle <d_kandle@velocitus.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: doug kandle
I purchased a LRI at Oshkosh this past summer. I am about to
assemble my second wing and want to mount the LRI plate while I am
building the wing.
Has anyone mounted a LRI on a 701 wing? If so, where did you mount
it (how far back from the leading edge, how far out on the
wing)? Did you just add an inspection plate or do something else?
And finally, how is it working for you?
Do Not Archive
Doug Kandle
CH701
Boise ID
Rudder & Horiz. Stab. done Working on 2nd Wing
Jabiru 2200
From complete kit
---------------------------------
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| Subject: | Mexico - south of US, that is |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Steve Hulland <marinegunner@gmail.com>
All,
Just so you know, I married a wonderful lady while living in Paraguay some
38 years ago. She and/or I have lived and traveled in Chile, Bolivia,
Brazil, Uruguay, Paraguay, Argentina, Ghana (just before Jim Jones), Mexico,
Honduras, Costa Rico, Panama, and most of the Carib countries and islands.
In addition, I have lived in and visited more than 50 other countries. I
have worked in Mexico. I usually refer to people from all countries south of
our border as Americans and enjoy all them. And yes, there are a number of
high tech plants and establishments in all of them - especially Mexico.
However, I did not think any of the 601 construction pictures were from a
Mexican plant. Just did not seem right to me. The only people from any other
country that I knock are those who trample on human rights and those who
immigrent and/or cross borders for any reason - even if it is to seek work
and/or a better life. Specifically those from Mexico since Mexico has an
abundance of natural resources, skilled and unskilled labor and could (if
they would fix their economy and human rights issue) be a meca for those who
want a better life.
*I do not usually like to get into any political commentary with this group,
it is for building and learning about airplanes. So, no more on this
subject, not even an answer to anyone who answers this, just wanted you to
know.*
However, I will continue to get into the fray if a pilot is going to or is
doing something that can hurt all of us and our future - such as building a
Sport Light Airplane, flying it as a Sport Pilot and then trying to justify
flying outside the respective rules. We are all hurt by such actions and
should prevent them if we can.
Semper Fi,
Steve H.
CH 701
Amado, AZ
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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