Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:10 AM - AW: Hang-up a Zodiac XL under hangar roof (Martin Pohl)
2. 05:37 AM - Torque? (Zed Smith)
3. 06:29 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 56 Msgs - 12/11/05 (Gig Giacona)
4. 07:07 AM - Re: Torque? (Elwood140@aol.com)
5. 07:17 AM - Re: New Airplane Subject (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
6. 07:20 AM - Re: HD vs HDS (Leo Gates)
7. 07:42 AM - LRI (Jeffrey A Beachy)
8. 07:43 AM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protection (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
9. 09:20 AM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protection (Paul Moore)
10. 10:23 AM - Re: LRI (Gary Gower)
11. 11:21 AM - fuel system questions (Carlos Sa)
12. 11:51 AM - Re: fuel system questions (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
13. 11:54 AM - Re: LRI (jnbolding1)
14. 11:56 AM - Re: Corrosion Protection (ROBERT SCEPPA)
15. 12:01 PM - Re: LRI (Craig Payne)
16. 01:02 PM - Wires and tubing through wings (Don Mountain)
17. 02:01 PM - Re: Torque? (Thilo Kind)
18. 02:06 PM - Re: Wires and tubing through wings (N5SL)
19. 02:11 PM - Arizona - Phoenix To Flagstaff (Tommy Walker)
20. 03:15 PM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protection (Kelly Meiste)
21. 04:07 PM - Learn to Fly in One Week - Popular Mechanics Coverage (Jim Pellien)
22. 04:17 PM - Re: Arizona - Phoenix To Flagstaff (Hal Rozema)
23. 04:43 PM - Zenair CH-601XL in POPULAR MECHANICS Magazine (Jim Pellien)
24. 05:50 PM - Re: Wires and tubing through wings (Mark Stauffer)
25. 06:05 PM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protection (zodie rocket)
26. 08:10 PM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protection (Bob Unternaehrer)
27. 08:31 PM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protection (Paul Mulwitz)
28. 08:33 PM - 6061 does corrode... (Brandon Tucker)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Hang-up a Zodiac XL under hangar roof |
Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Martin Pohl" <mpohl@pohltec.ch>
The recovery system installation really seems to be too complex for what I
need. The lift might be an idea, although winches are already installed in
the hangar and the standard way to store the upper planes.
There is a 601HDS at our airfield that has 3 attachment points installed:
one at the firewall (above the nosegear) and one at each wing (where the
main gear is located). I will try to contact ZAC what they think about
attachment points at the new XL wing.
Thanks for your help!
Martin
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
There is a diagram somewhere about attaching a ballistic recovery chute to
an XL. It would seem you could use the same locations for your attachments.
I haven't been able to find what I am thinking of with Google. I did just
rediscover that the Zodiacs in Germany are required to have some sort of a
BRS. It would be worth your while to ask Zenith about your specific need and
the more general question about BRS.
-- Craig
--
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
Obviously I'm missing something......spent most of yesterday looking through all
the Rotax manuals (Installation, Overhaul, Maintainence, Parts, Owner's, Repair,
etc) and ZAC.
What is the proper torque value for the four 10mm Allen-head bolts which secure
the Rotax 912 to the engine mount on the 701? These are the bolts which screw
into the engine case through the steel plates.
What began as a simple task of replacing the un-drilled bolts with four new ones,
with drilled heads, turned into a four-pots-of-coffee and one entire Cowboys
football game afternoon.
Has anybody else noticed that the few references to these bolts describe them as
having a "1.25" thread pitch?
Even the four new bolts (from Lockwood) are described as "M10x1.25x20".
My Craftsman tap & die set has both 1.25 and 1.50 pitch in the 10mm diameter, and
unless Sears has made a mistook, I find these new bolts AND THE HOLES IN THE
ENGINE match the 1.50 pitch.
End result is that the four new bolts fit properly, are installed, and are awaiting
proper tightening.
Still not sure if the Cowboys won, or the Chiefs lost.
Comments appreciated,
Zed/701/R912/90+% etc
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 56 Msgs - 12/11/05 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
>
>
> Time: 05:01:38 AM PST US
> From: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@sprint.ca>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: LSA cruise speed.
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@sprint.ca>
>
> Paul,
> Does an air adjustable prop drive you into the medical requirement thing?
> Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
>
>
Yes it does. I contacted my local FSDO and asked them about it. I even asked
if the controlling system was in some way locked out when used by a Sport
Pilot and they said no. If it can ever be air adjustable it would not
qualify as a Liht Sport.
Message 4
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Elwood140@aol.com
In a message dated 12/12/2005 7:38:54 AM Central Standard Time,
zsmith3rd@earthlink.net writes:
Obviously I'm missing something......spent most of yesterday looking through
all the Rotax manuals (Installation, Overhaul, Maintainence, Parts, Owner's,
Repair, etc) and ZAC.
Zed, ZAC says 220 inch-lbs should be the torque on the engine mounting
bolts. That value is given (I think) in the 701 assemby manual.
Regards,
Larry Wood
(N701LW someday)
Message 5
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| Subject: | New Airplane Subject |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Yeah I really don't think this argument holds much water in the grand
scheme of things. Remember its still an airplane that flys like any
other.
If Vans can get passed using thick extrusions in favour of the ZAC 25
thou standard L stiffner and using pulled rivets then I think they could
very easily blow everyone else away.
This is coming from an HDS and an RV builder but the quality of the Vans
kits is just light years ahead of where my HDS kit was 6 years ago.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Edward
Moody II
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Airplane Subject
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
For one thing, Zenith is way ahead of Vans on the learning curve for
this plane.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: <Crvsecretary@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Airplane Subject
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
>
>
> No 'maybe' about it, Bill....Chris H DID get it right !!
>
> Sure, Vans was ready for something radical (for them, at least) so
why
> not
> go with proven concepts and a proven market?
>
> I am very concerned that ZAC will be able to hold thier own once the
> RV-12
> is released. Vans is the giant in this market and I think ZAC and
others
> will
> definitely catch a cold.
>
> Any thoughts, friends?
>
>
> Tracy Smith
> Naugatuck, CT
> 601xl N458XL (reserved)
> do not archive
>
>
> In a message dated 12/9/2005 4:34:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> JAPhillipsGA@aol.com writes:
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
>
> Dear Thread Friends, have any of you XL guys looked at the RV-12
concept
> plane that Van's is working on ? Looks just about like a XL with
pulled
> rivets,
> bubble canopy and 912 mill. Maybe Chris H got it right with the XL.
Best
> regards, Bill
>
>
>
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Leo Gates <leogates@allvantage.com>
674 lbs
Leo
Do not archive
ron dewees wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
>
>Leo,
>Thanks for the information. What is the empty weight of your HDS?
>
>Ron
>
>do not archive
>
>
>
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jeffrey A Beachy <beachyjeff@juno.com>
I have decided to install an Angle-of-Attack / Lift Reserve Indicator on
my CH701. I have found five from which to choose (LRI from Minnesota, LRI
from Ohio, AOA from HCI Aviation, AOA Sport from Advanced and the
RiteAngle IIIb). Do you prefer the analog version or an LED version? I
would appreciate any thoughts from those of you flying with an AOA as to
the differences and relative merits of each.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
My Zac is made of 6061.
It is interesting but Vans makes great point in saying that all 6061 in
its airframes needs to be completely coverd in primer. My HDS had only
the mating surfaces primed and it has not been corroding at all.
Vans also list priming the 2024 alclad as "optional".
For the RV I simply did the same as I did on the zodiac..If I scratched
the alclad on the inside I gave it a squirt of primer.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan
Martin
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Corrosion Protection
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin
--> <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
I don't know why you would get flamed for that. The RV8 is made of 2024
alloy which has a relatively low corrosion resistance. The pure aluminum
cladding protects the outside but it definitely needs some kind of
interior corrosion protection added. The Zenith aircraft are made of
6064 allow which has a relatively high corrosion resistance. The Zeniths
don't really need any additional corrosion protection unless they live
in a corrosion prone environment. It is usually recommended that the
areas where riveted sheets come together get some kind of anti-corrosion
treatment though at a minimum.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
on 12/10/05 10:25 PM, Bill Pagan at pdn8r@yahoo.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Pagan <pdn8r@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi Lynn,
>
> Should be plenty of "primer wars" in the archives but since you posted
your
> message get ready for the onslaught as many builders have very strong
opinions
> about priming, not priming and what to prime with. I used the Sherwin
> Williams GBP 988 self etching primer on my RV-8A but will most likley
get
> flamed just for saying that. :-)
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Moore" <pmoore505@msn.com>
On the other hand, I have 6061 sheets from ZAC less than one year old and
where the paper covering got wet, they show signs of white corrosion forming
(oxide, sulfate, who knows) - go figure.
My main concern is less about corrosion and more about paint adhering to the
aluminum. I've painted cars and motorcycles and horse trailers for years and
it is always a challenge to get paint to stay on any aluminum part for more
than 5 or so years. Flakes off more often than not. All my etching and
alodining is targeted toward that end, only the ZnCr between mating parts is
specifically for corrosion - no doubts here. But thanks for the point of
view.
Paul
XL - O200
-----Original Message-----
From: ROBERT SCEPPA
..You know, all you guys are going to nuts over this...Theres no reason to
be going through all the mess with aluminum etch and
alodine process...I have pieces of bare 6061 laying around for years and
none of it has ever shown signs of corrosion....
Do not archive
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
We installed the one form Ohio, great service. is practically mantainance free
once its calibrated. Also the instrument is lifetime waraty.
http://www.liftreserve.com/
We are happy with it, when we asked a question, the answer by email was here
in less of 48 hrs.
Saludos
Gary Gower
701 912S
Guadalajara, Mexico.
Jeffrey A Beachy <beachyjeff@juno.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jeffrey A Beachy
I have decided to install an Angle-of-Attack / Lift Reserve Indicator on
my CH701. I have found five from which to choose (LRI from Minnesota, LRI
from Ohio, AOA from HCI Aviation, AOA Sport from Advanced and the
RiteAngle IIIb). Do you prefer the analog version or an LED version? I
would appreciate any thoughts from those of you flying with an AOA as to
the differences and relative merits of each.
---------------------------------
Message 11
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| Subject: | fuel system questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Hello, all
I have two questions on fuel systems.
(1) What is the recommended material for fuel lines?
I searched the archives, and it seems that:
(a) the alloy should be 3003-0
(b) O/D 3/8" (seems to be a Canadian requiment ?)
(c) wall thickness 0.035"
In short, part # 03-40600: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/mepages/3003versatube.php
(2) what is the preferred location for attaching the fuel sender?
I've seen several people attaching them on top, presumably because it reduces
the risk of leakage.
On the other hand, attaching it on the side might eliminate the need for one
access panel...?
Any other factor/opinion?
Cheers
Carlos
CH601-HD, building tanks
for now, do not archive
---------------------------------
Message 12
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| Subject: | fuel system questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
1/4" tube is quite acceptable on the discharge side of the pumps...On
the suction side (which I made a short as possible (see the archives for
MUCH discussion on this) I used 3/8ths.
Note the tube is for rigid installation...I.e you still need flex hose
which brings up the question of how to connect it.
The standard way is to flare the ends of the 3003 tube and use AN
hardware...Spendy but looks professional...You can reduce the cost a bit
by going down to your local hydraulics store where they have just about
every fitting imaginable in steel (they are called JIC threads...37
degree seat angle)...
The bargain basement approach (and what I did) is to compress the brass
ring from plumbing fittings on the end of the tube and slip the
appropriate flex hose (from the autoparts store) over the end. Even with
dissimilar metals I have never seen any corrosion, due to the oily
nature of fuel.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa
Subject: Zenith-List: fuel system questions
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Hello, all
I have two questions on fuel systems.
(1) What is the recommended material for fuel lines?
I searched the archives, and it seems that:
(a) the alloy should be 3003-0
(b) O/D 3/8" (seems to be a Canadian requiment ?)
(c) wall thickness 0.035"
In short, part # 03-40600:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/mepages/3003versatube.php
(2) what is the preferred location for attaching the fuel sender?
I've seen several people attaching them on top, presumably because it
reduces the risk of leakage.
On the other hand, attaching it on the side might eliminate the need
for one access panel...?
Any other factor/opinion?
Cheers
Carlos
CH601-HD, building tanks
for now, do not archive
---------------------------------
Message 13
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
>Jeffrey A Beachy <beachyjeff@juno.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jeffrey A Beachy
>
>I have decided to install an Angle-of-Attack / Lift Reserve Indicator on
>my CH701. I have found five from which to choose (LRI from Minnesota, LRI
>from Ohio, AOA from HCI Aviation, AOA Sport from Advanced and the
>RiteAngle IIIb). Do you prefer the analog version or an LED version? I
>would appreciate any thoughts from those of you flying with an AOA as to
>the differences and relative merits of each.
I have flown the Rite angle (on my glasair) and the LRI (on a 180 I used to own)
The rite angle is a true angle of attack instrument and has a vane to sense
position, it can also be calibrated to factor in 4 (i think) flap positions. Nice
instrument!!
The LRI senses a difference in pressure from a probe and is affected by airspeed as well,showing as "lift reserve" on the gauge. These can be built for less than $75 using the same gauge LRI uses, see www.ch701.com
Any airplane I ever own will have one or the other in it ,if I could have only
one instrument that would be it. LOW&SLOW John
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep@yahoo.com>
> Any automotive supply house, Lynn
--- lynn dingfelder <ding@tbscc.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lynn dingfelder"
> <ding@tbscc.com>
>
> List,
> I guess I got something started with
> the "corrosion" issue.
> To all who responded, thank you for your comments
> and opinions. I guess we
> all have to find our own comfort level in this
> arena. I certainly now have a
> much better understanding of the options, but have
> not yet chosen my path.
> Paul, if possible, I would like to know a
> source for the
> concentrated Alodine and wash solutions you
> mentioned.
>
> Lynn
>
> Corry, PA
>
> 601 XL
>
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
> www.buildersbooks.com,
> Admin.
> _->
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
I like (and purchased but have not flown yet) the AOA Sport from Advanced
Flight Systems. Two reasons: the probes are mounted in the wing and are
flush externally. Second I think the red and green LEDs will be easier to
track with your peripheral vision. But it is more expensive and more complex
than the others. I bought mine back when I was rich.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey A
Beachy
Subject: Zenith-List: LRI
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jeffrey A Beachy
--> <beachyjeff@juno.com>
I have decided to install an Angle-of-Attack / Lift Reserve Indicator on my
CH701. I have found five from which to choose (LRI from Minnesota, LRI from
Ohio, AOA from HCI Aviation, AOA Sport from Advanced and the RiteAngle
IIIb). Do you prefer the analog version or an LED version? I would
appreciate any thoughts from those of you flying with an AOA as to the
differences and relative merits of each.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Wires and tubing through wings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
I am putting the left wing together for my 601 XL, and don't find any direction
for where to put the wires for the NAV lights on the tips of the wings and
pitot tubes through the wings. Do they go through the supplied rubber grommets
in the small holes in the front ribs about an inch in from the wing leading
edge?
Don, 601 XL, tail done, working on wings
---------------------------------
Message 17
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind@gmx.net>
Hi Zed,
the M10 bolt is metric - the thread is measured in millimeter. 20 is the
lenght of the bolt in millimeter.
Happy building
Thilo Kind
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zed Smith" <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Torque?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
>
>
> Obviously I'm missing something......spent most of yesterday looking
through all the Rotax manuals (Installation, Overhaul, Maintainence, Parts,
Owner's, Repair, etc) and ZAC.
>
> What is the proper torque value for the four 10mm Allen-head bolts which
secure the Rotax 912 to the engine mount on the 701? These are the bolts
which screw into the engine case through the steel plates.
>
> What began as a simple task of replacing the un-drilled bolts with four
new ones, with drilled heads, turned into a four-pots-of-coffee and one
entire Cowboys football game afternoon.
>
> Has anybody else noticed that the few references to these bolts describe
them as having a "1.25" thread pitch?
> Even the four new bolts (from Lockwood) are described as "M10x1.25x20".
> My Craftsman tap & die set has both 1.25 and 1.50 pitch in the 10mm
diameter, and unless Sears has made a mistook, I find these new bolts AND
THE HOLES IN THE ENGINE match the 1.50 pitch.
>
> End result is that the four new bolts fit properly, are installed, and are
awaiting proper tightening.
>
> Still not sure if the Cowboys won, or the Chiefs lost.
>
> Comments appreciated,
>
> Zed/701/R912/90+% etc
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Wires and tubing through wings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Hi Don:
The assembly manual for the wings - specifically
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/6w10.pdf
gives you two options for installing the wires on
pages 5 and 6 - grommets or tie-wraps.
That being said, I used PVC because I wanted to finish
up my wings before doing any wiring. It sure paid off
because I was able to add some wires I would not have
thought of when I wanted to close up my wings. Here's
a photo of my pvc plumbing:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/5_20_04_WingInside.JPG
Keep up the good work,
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
Working on Wires and Engine Stuff
--- Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain
> <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
>
> I am putting the left wing together for my 601 XL,
> and don't find any direction for where to put the
> wires for the NAV lights on the tips of the wings
> and pitot tubes through the wings.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 19
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| Subject: | Arizona - Phoenix To Flagstaff |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
All,
I am going to be in Phoenix 12/19/2005. If any 701 builders in that area are available
and would like a visit by a fellow 701 builder, I would like to pay a
visit and see your project and talk building/flying for a few minutes.
Sandra and I are flying in to Phoenix this Thursday evening and driving to Flag
to see our daughter graduate from NAU on Friday. I will be driving back down
to Phoenix either Sunday night or Monday morning. If anyone's available and
would like a short visit, let me know.
No regrets necessary as this is a short notice.
Thanks,
Tommy Walker in Alabama
Tail feathers, Wings, Slats, Flaperons, Rear Fuselage, Firewall, Cabin floor.
Finished.
Do Not Archive
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kelly Meiste" <kellymeiste@jcwifi.com>
When I was constructing my 601 several years ago I was also wondering about
the 6061 corrosion resistance. At my "day job" I operate a salt spray
chamber so I decide to toss in a few scrap pieces of 6061 (.015 thick) from
my kit. I left the test samples in the salt spray for 3,500 hours (just
under 5 months). There is no way to accurately compare that number to real
world time, but a best estimate is this would be the equivalent of 30 to 35
years. Anyway after removing the samples from the test chamber I found them
looking more like Swiss cheese than aluminum. This did not happen over night
but they gradually worsened along the life of my test.
I live in the mid west were my plane is subjected to industrial, and
agricultural pollution. And after seeing the results of this test I decided
to prime ALL joined components with brush on zinc chromate. In my opinion
anyone living anywhere near the coast should not even consider building an
aluminum plane without corrosion protection. It may not effect you and your
flying, but when I die and my son inherits our plane I don't want him to
have this issue to worry about.
Anyone wishing to view these photos need only to ask and I'll sent them to
you.
Kelly Meiste
unpainted 601 HD (now flying on 7 year old aluminum and still looking good)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> That's very interesting to know Randy. Do you know if the thickness of the
> material may be a factor? I'm assuming a thicker gauge boat skin and less
> obvious effect from corrosion vs. a thinner aircraft skin where even the
> slightest corrosion will compromise the necessary strength..?
>
>
> Paul
> XL - O200
>
> ..they just saw them out of 6061, weld them up and off into salt water
> without any further protection and they don't melt!...
Message 21
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| Subject: | Learn to Fly in One Week - Popular Mechanics Coverage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Pellien" <jim@pellien.com>
Have you ever thought about becoming a pilot and flying around the country
in your own airplane?
Davin Coburn of Popular Mechanics magazine is at my Mid-Atlantic Sports
Planes Flight School in Basye, VA taking the 1-week sport pilot course. He
is writing about his experience in a daily blog at the main page of Popular
Mechanics website: www.popularmechanics.com
Davins first two installments are below.
For more information about the 1-Week course go to: www.MASPL.com
<http://www.MASPL.com> , or call 703-313-4818 or write to:
jim@pellien.com
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
Sky Bryce Airport
Basye, VA
_____
<http://stats.clickability.com/t.gif?19=990&14=0&6=2075972&7=77897&18=0.9652
500384301064>
DECEMBER 9, 2005
Posted 3 days and 13 hours ago on December 9, 2005
Sport Pilot In A Week?
<http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog/science/2075972.html?c=y&imageID=74966
7&caption=>
<http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog/science/2075972.html?c=y&imageID=74966
7&caption=>
PM Air Challenge: Researcher Davin Coburn tries for a sport pilot license in
a week. Check back for his blog reports. -- The Editors
As a 26-year-old living in New York City, there are few things I need less
than a pilot's license.
In November, however, we ran a cover story
<http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/aviation/1959137.html> about the
Federal Aviation Administration's new sport pilot initiative
<http://www.sportpilot.org/> , which created a new tier of single-engine
aircraft that require minimal training to fly. After passing ground school
and the FAA Knowledge Test, sport pilots need only 20 hours of flight
instruction--so with a little vacation time and cooperative cloud ceilings,
you could knock that out in a week. On the seventh day, the theory goes, an
FAA instructor tests you, straps in for a ride-along and certifies you on
the spot.
The story elicited a tremendous response from readers. To some, the idea was
vaguely suicidal at best; completely nuts at worst. It struck me as a
challenge.
So I took at-home ground schooling
<http://www.kingschools.com/SportPilotCourse.asp> . I whipped the Knowledge
Test <http://www.faa.gov/education_research/testing/airmen/test_questions/>
(see Pilot > Light Sport). And come this Sunday, I'll be at the Bryce Resort
<http://www.bryceresort.com/> in Basye, Va., immersed in flight training
with the folks at Mid-Atlantic Sport Planes
<http://www.maspl.com/flight_school.htm> . The training craft is a Zodiac
<http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/index.html> 601XL.
Earning a pilot's certificate in a week is ambitious. No one says it will be
easy--and that's exactly why I'm going to try. I'll be posting blog reports
here at PM.com throughout the week, so if you're curious about the
day-to-day during an adventure like this--as we are--check back often. We're
not entirely sure what to expect.--Davin
============================================================================
======================================
DECEMBER 12, 2005
Posted 0 days and 13 hours ago on December 12, 2005
Sport Pilot In A Week?--Day 1
<http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog/science/2075972.html?c=y&imageID=75053
2&caption=Here%27s+the+Zodiac+601XL+training+craft.+PHOTOGRAPHY+BY+DAVIN+COB
URN>
<http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog/science/2075972.html?c=y&imageID=75053
2&caption=Here%27s+the+Zodiac+601XL+training+craft.+PHOTOGRAPHY+BY+DAVIN+COB
URN>
Here's the Zodiac 601XL training craft. PHOTOGRAPHY BY DAVIN COBURN
<http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog/science/2075972.html?c=y&imageID=75053
7&caption=Sunday+morning+at+Bryce+Resort+in+Basye%2C+Va.>
<http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog/science/2075972.html?c=y&imageID=75053
7&caption=Sunday+morning+at+Bryce+Resort+in+Basye%2C+Va.>
Sunday morning at Bryce Resort in Basye, Va.
<http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog/science/2075972.html?c=y&imageID=75054
2&caption=The+601XL%27s+console.>
<http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog/science/2075972.html?c=y&imageID=75054
2&caption=The+601XL%27s+console.>
The 601XL's console.
<http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog/science/2075972.html?c=y&imageID=75054
7&caption=A+look+at+the+world+from+a+different+angle.>
<http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog/science/2075972.html?c=y&imageID=75054
7&caption=A+look+at+the+world+from+a+different+angle.>
A look at the world from a different angle.
PM Air Challenge: Researcher Davin Coburn tries for a sport pilot license in
a week. Check back for his blog reports. -- The Editors
Sunday morning, 8 am. Sport <http://www.popularmechanics.com/oshkosh>
pilots are at the mercy of strict weather guidelines. So when there's sun,
there's flying. I meet my instructor, Nathan Mayer. He's 23 and has been
dodging clouds longer than dodging motorists. "Flying's a lot safer than
driving," he says. "Look at the road. Look how many things you can hit."
Nathan has a casual honesty that makes the extraordinary seem entirely
possible. Things can go wrong in an airplane, he says, things that can kill
you. No need to pretend otherwise. Luckily, he's achieved his airline
transport pilot certificate ("I guess it's like the doctorate of flying," he
says with a shrug), and has a stack of instructor certificates earned
through more than 2200 hours of flight time. He knows how to keep a plane
out of a cow pasture.
Inside the MASPL <http://www.maspl.com/flight_school.htm> office, we talk
over background physics, spend 20 minutes with a preflight checklist to
verify fuel levels, airworthiness and gauge responsiveness on the Zodiac
<http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/aviation/1280556.html> 601XL--and
then it's wheels up.
And 10 minutes later, Nathan hands over control. Of an airplane. I'm soaring
3000 ft. above the snowy Virginia countryside, in a 725-pound plane that
dances in the devilish winds bounding over the mountains around Bryce
Resort.
Up, down, left, right--it is at once amazingly simple, and terribly complex.
It's tough to balance throttle level with climb rate, and stick movement
through turns with the chunky foot pedals that control the rudder. Every
adjustment I make affects three other things.
Thankfully, the Zodiac seems oblivious to over-maneuvering. Turbulence drops
us 10 ft. and bangs my head into the canopy, but the plane whirs along as my
instructor laughs. We stall it intentionally, pitch the nose forward and
cruise on like nothing happened. It's a forgiving plane, Nathan says; then
he asks if I like rollercoasters, and bends the Zodiac through S turns that
make me think about throwing up.
We make two more trips Sunday, giving me 3 hours of flight time toward the
20 I'll need before an official check ride. It remains an ambitious plan,
but one Nathan figures is entirely possible. "Hey," he says, "if we can get
you soloing Wednesday, this should be no problem."--Davin
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Arizona - Phoenix To Flagstaff |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Hal Rozema <hartist1@cox.net>
>
>Hi Tommy:
>
I have a 701 about ready to hang the wings and install struts and go for
my certificate. See http://theplanefolks.net/gallery/fuselage I'm a bit
behind up loading pictures to my website, but I added a picture taken
last Saturday.
Call me at 602.553.8181 to set up a time when I can meet you at the
hangar. I work out of my home designing BIG houses so my boss will let
me take the time off. (smile) The hangar is at Deer Valley Airport (DVT)
on the north side. There is an electronic security gate that I will
meet you at to let you in. When you get there, call my cell phone
602-803-9165 and I'll drive over and open the gate.. There are a lot of
home builts and rebuilds on that part of the field from our EAA Chapter.
I'm the only 701 builder this far along. The engine is a Jabiru 3300, 6
cylinder engine, 125 HP with a Prince P-Tip prop.
See you next week.
Hal Rozema
www://ThePlaneFolks.Net
>All,
>
>I am going to be in Phoenix 12/19/2005. If any 701 builders in that area are
available and would like a visit by a fellow 701 builder, I would like to pay
a visit and see your project and talk building/flying for a few minutes.
>
>Sandra and I are flying in to Phoenix this Thursday evening and driving to Flag
to see our daughter graduate from NAU on Friday. I will be driving back down
to Phoenix either Sunday night or Monday morning. If anyone's available and
would like a short visit, let me know.
>
>No regrets necessary as this is a short notice.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Tommy Walker in Alabama
>Tail feathers, Wings, Slats, Flaperons, Rear Fuselage, Firewall, Cabin floor.
Finished.
>
>Do Not Archive
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Zenair CH-601XL in POPULAR MECHANICS Magazine |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Pellien" <jim@pellien.com>
All,
An editor from Popular Mechanics is taking my 1-Week Sport Pilot School this
week in the first certificated Zenair CH-601XL SLSA at the Bryce Mountain
Resort in Basye, VA. He is writing a daily blog and posting it to the main
webpage for Popular Mechanics: www.popularmechanics.com
The first two installments for Dec 9th and 11th are below but I recommend
you go to the PM webpage (above) for the accompanying pictures which are
well done.
Jim
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
Mid-Atlantic Region of Sportsplanes.com
Sky Bryce Airport
Basye, VA
703-313-4818
www.maspl.com
jim@pellien.com
----
DECEMBER 9, 2005
SPORT PILOT IN A WEEK?
PM Air Challenge: Researcher Davin Coburn tries for a sport pilot license in
a week. Check back for his blog reports. -- The Editors
As a 26-year-old living in New York City, there are few things I need less
than a pilot's license.
In November, however, we ran a cover story about the Federal Aviation
Administration's new sport pilot initiative, which created a new tier of
single-engine aircraft that require minimal training to fly. After passing
ground school and the FAA Knowledge Test, sport pilots need only 20 hours of
flight instruction--so with a little vacation time and cooperative cloud
ceilings, you could knock that out in a week. On the seventh day, the theory
goes, an FAA instructor tests you, straps in for a ride-along and certifies
you on the spot.
The story elicited a tremendous response from readers. To some, the idea was
vaguely suicidal at best; completely nuts at worst. It struck me as a
challenge.
So I took at-home ground schooling. I whipped the Knowledge Test. And come
this Sunday, I'll be at the Bryce Resort in Basye, Va., immersed in flight
training with the folks at Mid-Atlantic Sport Planes. The training craft is
a Zodiac 601XL.
Earning a pilot's certificate in a week is ambitious. No one says it will be
easy--and that's exactly why I'm going to try. I'll be posting blog reports
here at PM.com throughout the week, so if you're curious about the
day-to-day during an adventure like this--as we are--check back often. We're
not entirely sure what to expect.--Davin
============================================================================
======================================
DECEMBER 12, 2005
Here's the Zodiac 601XL training craft. PHOTOGRAPHY BY DAVIN COBURN
Sunday morning at Bryce Resort in Basye, Va.
The 601XL's console.
A look at the world from a different angle.
PM Air Challenge: Researcher Davin Coburn tries for a sport pilot license in
a week. Check back for his blog reports. -- The Editors
Sunday morning, 8 am. Sport pilots are at the mercy of strict weather
guidelines. So when there's sun, there's flying. I meet my instructor,
Nathan Mayer. He's 23 and has been dodging clouds longer than dodging
motorists. "Flying's a lot safer than driving," he says. "Look at the road.
Look how many things you can hit."
Nathan has a casual honesty that makes the extraordinary seem entirely
possible. Things can go wrong in an airplane, he says, things that can kill
you. No need to pretend otherwise. Luckily, he's achieved his airline
transport pilot certificate ("I guess it's like the doctorate of flying," he
says with a shrug), and has a stack of instructor certificates earned
through more than 2200 hours of flight time. He knows how to keep a plane
out of a cow pasture.
Inside the MASPL office, we talk over background physics, spend 20 minutes
with a preflight checklist to verify fuel levels, airworthiness and gauge
responsiveness on the Zodiac 601XL--and then it's wheels up.
And 10 minutes later, Nathan hands over control. Of an airplane. I'm soaring
3000 ft. above the snowy Virginia countryside, in a 725-pound plane that
dances in the devilish winds bounding over the mountains around Bryce
Resort.
Up, down, left, right--it is at once amazingly simple, and terribly complex.
It's tough to balance throttle level with climb rate, and stick movement
through turns with the chunky foot pedals that control the rudder. Every
adjustment I make affects three other things.
Thankfully, the Zodiac seems oblivious to over-maneuvering. Turbulence drops
us 10 ft. and bangs my head into the canopy, but the plane whirs along as my
instructor laughs. We stall it intentionally, pitch the nose forward and
cruise on like nothing happened. It's a forgiving plane, Nathan says; then
he asks if I like rollercoasters, and bends the Zodiac through S turns that
make me think about throwing up.
We make two more trips Sunday, giving me 3 hours of flight time toward the
20 I'll need before an official check ride. It remains an ambitious plan,
but one Nathan figures is entirely possible. "Hey," he says, "if we can get
you soloing Wednesday, this should be no problem."--Davin
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
Message 24
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| Subject: | Wires and tubing through wings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" <mark.stauffer@cablespeed.com>
Don,
There are several things you can do. I installed cushion clamps and clamped
in a run of split loom conduit. Others have installed a run of 1/2"(?) PVC
and a friend of mine just used a piece of clear, light weight acrylic
tubing. All of us ran the conduit/tubing through the rear ribs, not the nose
ribs. I believe I ran mine through the first lightening hole aft of the
spar. Don't forget to run your trim tab wires - I didn't and it's going to
be a pain......
Hope this helps
Mark
601XL Jabiru 3300
Installing firewall fwd
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Mountain
Subject: Zenith-List: Wires and tubing through wings
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
I am putting the left wing together for my 601 XL, and don't find any
direction for where to put the wires for the NAV lights on the tips of the
wings and pitot tubes through the wings. Do they go through the supplied
rubber grommets in the small holes in the front ribs about an inch in from
the wing leading edge?
Don, 601 XL, tail done, working on wings
---------------------------------
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "zodie rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Kelly can you send them to me with a wrtie up for www.ch601.org? Also could
you re-do the test with a peice coated on Zinc Chromate and a peice in
Cortec also maybe a peice of 2024?
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kelly Meiste" <kellymeiste@jcwifi.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Corrosion Protection
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kelly Meiste" <kellymeiste@jcwifi.com>
>
> When I was constructing my 601 several years ago I was also wondering
about
> the 6061 corrosion resistance. At my "day job" I operate a salt spray
> chamber so I decide to toss in a few scrap pieces of 6061 (.015 thick)
from
> my kit. I left the test samples in the salt spray for 3,500 hours (just
> under 5 months). There is no way to accurately compare that number to real
> world time, but a best estimate is this would be the equivalent of 30 to
35
> years. Anyway after removing the samples from the test chamber I found
them
> looking more like Swiss cheese than aluminum. This did not happen over
night
> but they gradually worsened along the life of my test.
> I live in the mid west were my plane is subjected to industrial, and
> agricultural pollution. And after seeing the results of this test I
decided
> to prime ALL joined components with brush on zinc chromate. In my opinion
> anyone living anywhere near the coast should not even consider building an
> aluminum plane without corrosion protection. It may not effect you and
your
> flying, but when I die and my son inherits our plane I don't want him to
> have this issue to worry about.
>
> Anyone wishing to view these photos need only to ask and I'll sent them to
> you.
>
> Kelly Meiste
> unpainted 601 HD (now flying on 7 year old aluminum and still looking
good)
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> > That's very interesting to know Randy. Do you know if the thickness of
the
> > material may be a factor? I'm assuming a thicker gauge boat skin and
less
> > obvious effect from corrosion vs. a thinner aircraft skin where even the
> > slightest corrosion will compromise the necessary strength..?
> >
> >
> > Paul
> > XL - O200
> >
> > ..they just saw them out of 6061, weld them up and off into salt water
> > without any further protection and they don't melt!...
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
Kelly,,, That sure would be an interesting test. Even could use some self
etching epoxy primer. We used to have salt cabinet test done on paint
panels. We would scratch and X across the panes and measure the creap in 30
days. I'm sure that's what you also do. bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: "zodie rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Corrosion Protection
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "zodie rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
>
> Kelly can you send them to me with a wrtie up for www.ch601.org? Also
could
> you re-do the test with a peice coated on Zinc Chromate and a peice in
> Cortec also maybe a peice of 2024?
>
> Mark
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kelly Meiste" <kellymeiste@jcwifi.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Corrosion Protection
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kelly Meiste"
<kellymeiste@jcwifi.com>
> >
> > When I was constructing my 601 several years ago I was also wondering
> about
> > the 6061 corrosion resistance. At my "day job" I operate a salt spray
> > chamber so I decide to toss in a few scrap pieces of 6061 (.015 thick)
> from
> > my kit. I left the test samples in the salt spray for 3,500 hours (just
> > under 5 months). There is no way to accurately compare that number to
real
> > world time, but a best estimate is this would be the equivalent of 30 to
> 35
> > years. Anyway after removing the samples from the test chamber I found
> them
> > looking more like Swiss cheese than aluminum. This did not happen over
> night
> > but they gradually worsened along the life of my test.
> > I live in the mid west were my plane is subjected to industrial, and
> > agricultural pollution. And after seeing the results of this test I
> decided
> > to prime ALL joined components with brush on zinc chromate. In my
opinion
> > anyone living anywhere near the coast should not even consider building
an
> > aluminum plane without corrosion protection. It may not effect you and
> your
> > flying, but when I die and my son inherits our plane I don't want him to
> > have this issue to worry about.
> >
> > Anyone wishing to view these photos need only to ask and I'll sent them
to
> > you.
> >
> > Kelly Meiste
> > unpainted 601 HD (now flying on 7 year old aluminum and still looking
> good)
> >
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >
> > > That's very interesting to know Randy. Do you know if the thickness of
> the
> > > material may be a factor? I'm assuming a thicker gauge boat skin and
> less
> > > obvious effect from corrosion vs. a thinner aircraft skin where even
the
> > > slightest corrosion will compromise the necessary strength..?
> > >
> > >
> > > Paul
> > > XL - O200
> > >
> > > ..they just saw them out of 6061, weld them up and off into salt water
> > > without any further protection and they don't melt!...
> >
> >
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
May I suggest you also add a piece of 6061, and a scratched piece of 2024.
In addition, I think it would be extremely valuable if you can remove
all the test pieces every week or two and take a picture of them.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
At 06:04 PM 12/12/2005, you wrote:
>Kelly can you send them to me with a wrtie up for www.ch601.org? Also could
>you re-do the test with a peice coated on Zinc Chromate and a peice in
>Cortec also maybe a peice of 2024?
>
>Mark
-
Message 28
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| Subject: | 6061 does corrode... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
Wouldn't you know it, the day the box arrived with my
fuselage kit, it rained. This is San Diego damnit!!!
Anyway, a small amount of water got between the rear
fuselage side skins and remained unnoticed for a few
months. By the time I split the two, there was mild,
but widespread surface corrosion. A good bath in
alumaprep made it suitable for paint, but this
highlights that 6061 will corrode. We all know that
galvanic corrosion exists between components, and
there should be some protection there. Corrosion
protection for non contacting components, and the
primer used are a matter of personal preference. I
have used two different cortec products, a PPG epoxy,
and zinc chromate spray cans for small pieces. I'll
know in a decade or two which is better, if you guys
want to wait a bit...
On another note, someone mentioned that some
professionals don't use Alodine. The teacher of my
Navy corrosion supervisor course had been in aircraft
corrosion prevention for over 40 years (around
aircraft carriers - the worst conditions imaginable).
He swears by Alodine, both for corrosion prevention
and paint adhesion. Self etching or not, he
recommends Alodine before the application of any
primers, on any aluminum alloy. -Just one more
opinion...
R/
Brandon
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