Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:16 AM - Re: Need for Cylinder head temp gauge, 912ULS (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
2. 08:06 AM - 701~801 with RiteAngle AOA (EMAproducts@AOL.COM)
3. 08:45 AM - Level (MikeH)
4. 09:14 AM - Level table (Zed Smith)
5. 09:35 AM - 801 larger horizontal tail with VGs (Keystone Engineering LLC)
6. 09:44 AM - Re: Level (Paul Mulwitz)
7. 10:02 AM - Re: Level (brucelee@mn.rr.com)
8. 10:23 AM - Re: Level table (Paul Mulwitz)
9. 11:44 AM - and we wonder why we lose airports (Jeff Small)
10. 11:52 AM - Re: HD vs HDS (Leo Gates)
11. 12:06 PM - Re: Level (Leo Gates)
12. 12:32 PM - Re: Level (Craig Payne)
13. 12:46 PM - Re: 801 larger horizontal tail with VGs (japhillipsga@aol.com)
14. 02:05 PM - Re: Level table (Jean-Paul Roy)
15. 04:02 PM - Re: Level table (bill naumuk)
16. 04:45 PM - Re: and we wonder why we lose airports (Mike)
17. 05:54 PM - dimpe die (alex trent)
18. 06:35 PM - Re: Level table. (Gary Gower)
19. 06:40 PM - Re: Level table (NYTerminat@aol.com)
20. 06:58 PM - Re: and we wonder why we lose airports. Naah (Gary Gower)
21. 07:28 PM - Re: dimpe die (lynn dingfelder)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Need for Cylinder head temp gauge, 912ULS |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Not needed for water cooled heads
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JERICKSON03E@aol.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Need for Cylinder head temp gauge, 912ULS
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
The ZAC instrument package came with a Coolant temp gauge, no Cylinder
head temp gauge.
What have builders found, is a Cylinder head temp gauge also needed?
Message 2
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| Subject: | 701~801 with RiteAngle AOA |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: EMAproducts@aol.com
Are any of you 701 or 801 builders who purchased our RiteAngle AOA flying
yet? I would really appreciate having some photos for those who inquire on
your mounting both the vane & the display!
Thanks in advance! and please reply to business e-mail address.
Elbie
Elbie Mendenhall
President
EM Aviation, LLC
13411 NE Prairie Rd
Brush Prairie, WA 98606
360-260-0772
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: MikeH <mhilderbrand@cox.net>
Not to start a huge debate on degree's of levelness.... but, My
table, not being on wheels, had to be moved and readjusted to level
again. I have a "smart level", "spirit level" and a "laser level".
First time I leveled with the Smart Level. This time I thought I could
be more accurate with the laser level. I set the laser level off the
table, using the bubble levels built into it as a guide to establish
what really is "level". Then I placed a stick on all 4 corners of the
table to see where the laser "hits" Well, I was all over the place!
After adjusting, adjusting and adjusting it was just NOT right. Going
back to my Samrt level I was off at most 0.7 deg. Which is pretty
significant! I found the laser level to be difficult to use. If you use
it to shoot across a long area it could be off by quit a bit time it
reaches your target! I ended up using a water level. worked great! How
do others' level their table? Wings.. etc. would a water level be
accurate enough you think?
thanks
mike
Message 4
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
I'd sggest stretching a calibrated string from one end to the other and check for
FLAT.
Then check for flat side-to-side using same string.
That should suffice. The wings won't know level from diddle, but you might not
want to build them on a parabolic table.
Let the debate begin.
Cheers,
Zed/701/R912/90+%/etc
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | 801 larger horizontal tail with VGs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Keystone Engineering LLC <keystone@gci.net>
Hi
I do not have a float rating but normally you check the mags during the plowing
stage of taking off. You have full power but are going relatively slow. It
is kind of like checking the mags on a gravel strip. A lot of time I check them
while taxiing at 1500 rpm or so. I must admit it is more of a quick functional
check not a classic run up. In a Cessna or Piper you can check them during
your take off roll. Not in the 801 you are in the air too fast. Hopefully
you have done a full classic run up in the not too distant past.
When I have a big crosswind on take off or landing, I use no flaps and approach
or rotate at about 60 mph. At that speed you need to give it lots of down elevator
once you get it on the ground.
Thank goodness my home field rarely has cross winds and when there is a crosswind
it is a williwaw with 30 gusting to 60+ . Not flying weather. Even the 121
operator takes a brake. You have to realize in Valdez there is a 6000' mountain
1/4 mile north of the runway. The terrain warning in my Garmin 296 GPS goes
off on climb out and on base. Believe it or not it is distracting!
I'm a product of the 70's, I do full stalls and I only do a no flap landing in
a cross wind. All other landing and take offs are with flaps. Take off with
10 degrees and landing with 40 degrees. It was calm the two days I was practicing.
I guess I should practice no flap take off and landing!
My thought is the tires wear out a lot faster than the wings. My philosophy is
get it off and on the ground at the lowest speed possible. As an engineer I
know the momentum increases at the square of the speed. If you want to walk away
from an accident it should happen at the slowest speed possible.
>Bill, educate me please. How do you do a run up/mag check on a float
>plane?
>Wouldn't you end up at the other side of the pond? On the flaps, I made
>a landing in 14 kt gust cross winds last weekend with full flaps
>That's interesting...How does it do with no flaps Bill?
here are a couple of pics.
http://www.valdezalaska.org/photoGalleries/praxFlyInGallery/007.html
N801BW coming off the beach.
http://www.valdezalaska.org/photoGalleries/praxFlyInGallery/042.html
Jim (N801ZA) taking off in the short field contest.
http://www.valdezalaska.org/photoGalleries/minishFlyInGallery/074.html
Me directing traffic on the beach during the poker run. I'm the short one.
http://www.valdezalaska.org/photoGalleries/minishFlyInGallery/115.html
Finally what I was looking for, looking east up the taxiway to the east.
http://www.valdezalaska.org/photoGalleries/minishFlyInGallery/118.html
Looking north across runway.
Bill Wilcox
N801BW
Valdez, AK
228 hrs
2.5 hrs flown off of the required 5 hrs after modification
Floats are the project after Christmas vacation.
Mele Kalikimaka
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
I use a "Torpedo" bubble level for my wings. This is a level about 8
inches long.
I did use a laser device to level my bench, but the primary purpose
of the laser was to make the surface of the bench flat rather than
level. I mounted a second piece of particle board on different sized
shims depending on where the laser hit a stick at that point.
I don't think there is any exact way to get a perfect level on either
the bench or the airplane parts. The best you can do is the best you
can do. Nearly anything will fly.
Paul
XL wings
At 08:44 AM 12/14/2005, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: MikeH <mhilderbrand@cox.net>
>
>Not to start a huge debate on degree's of levelness.... but, My
>table, not being on wheels, had to be moved and readjusted to level
>again. I have a "smart level", "spirit level" and a "laser level".
>First time I leveled with the Smart Level.
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: brucelee@mn.rr.com
I'm a maint. machinist by trade and I install delicate/ high accuracy
equipment quite often. In the CNC and metalworking industry, .0005/per
foot is considered "level". Now, This is just my opinion but, if you
can keep it below .5 degrees measured over 12 feet( the length of the
table), I should think this would be plenty close. BTW, considering
your table is prolly wood and it is most likely sitting on a concrete
floor that is about 4" thick, you could measure the levelness once a
week and get slightly different readings fairly often. Also, using
your laser, take measurments at several different points along the
length of the table- you may be suprised/ dejected at the results!
There are ways to create a table that would stay flat and level, but
for this application I don't think it's worth the trouble.
Bruce Lee
----- Original Message -----
From: MikeH <mhilderbrand@cox.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Level
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: MikeH <mhilderbrand@cox.net>
>
> Not to start a huge debate on degree's of levelness.... but,
> My
> table, not being on wheels, had to be moved and readjusted to
> level
> again. I have a "smart level", "spirit level" and a "laser level".
>
> First time I leveled with the Smart Level. This time I thought I
> could
> be more accurate with the laser level. I set the laser level off
> the
> table, using the bubble levels built into it as a guide to
> establish
> what really is "level". Then I placed a stick on all 4 corners of
> the
> table to see where the laser "hits" Well, I was all over the
> place!
> After adjusting, adjusting and adjusting it was just NOT right.
> Going
> back to my Samrt level I was off at most 0.7 deg. Which is pretty
> significant! I found the laser level to be difficult to use. If
> you use
> it to shoot across a long area it could be off by quit a bit time
> it
> reaches your target! I ended up using a water level. worked
> great! How
> do others' level their table? Wings.. etc. would a water level
> be
> accurate enough you think?
> thanks
> mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Actually, the procedure for building an XL wing requires the table to
be flat and level. You use the flat table to take any twist out of
the main spar and level to get the rear spar to be in the correct
position relative to the main spar. This is required because of the
tapered wing.
>The wings won't know level from diddle
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 9
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| Subject: | and we wonder why we lose airports |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
>> We have several people on my field that think high speed passes are
>> dangerous. I like to whiz by at 20 ft blowing the Calvary Charge with my
>> air horns - just to annoy them (;- )
> If you're being funny, you're not. If you're serious, you're an idiot!
+++ Amen! Every time the AOPA asks for money for its defense of our flying rights
and to keep airports that are under attack from residents because of noise
complaints - I give. Hard to believe that someone would purposely put "his"
field in jeopardy. The field belongs to all the pilots who hope to use it.
A dive from 4000 with a pullout over the field at 500!!!...bet others at the field
love your pattern manners. Hopefully someone will report you to the local
FAA branch, and thankfully the original poster is on the Left Coast.
do not archive
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Leo Gates <leogates@allvantage.com>
Carlos Sa wrote:
> Insane, Leo - I love it ! ! !
>
> You should post details !
>
> Cheers
>
> Carlos
>
> *//*
Details? What details? Here are some:
The siren I found on Ebay. The seller said it came off a boat. It is
mounted on the belly, just forward of the spar with machine screws and
Rivnuts. I have a push/push button on the instriment panel to activate
it - through a headlight relay from J C Whitney.
The air horns came from J C Whitney (three horns). They are mounted on
the fuse right side, just aft of the wing trailing edge. Push/push
switch on the instrument panel to turn them on and off, again through a
headlight relay. The compressor is mounted on the upright that goes to
the shoulder harness mounting bracket, under the baggage compartment.
The siren is great to sound off, just prior to engine start - clears the
prop!
The air horn is great when cross country and you pull up to the service
are. A blast of the Calvary Charge gets line service personnel
attention every time.
One cross country experience: At a tower controlled airport I was
parked just below the tower. I had blown the horns when stopped, just
before engine shutdown. This got immediate service - not one but six
people. After servicing, I blew the siren just before engine start.
Called the tower and was cleared to taxi to runway 14. When ready, I
requested a VFR departure to the south. The tower came back,
"Experemental 601Z you are cleared for take-off on runway 14, maintain
closed right hand traffic to runway 14, high speed pass down runway 14,
with siren and horn, approved. Right turn out and VFR departure
approved. Have a fun day!
I am 71 and in my second childhood - my excuse.
Do not archive
Leo Gates
N601Z, CH601HDS, Taildragger
Message 11
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Leo Gates <leogates@allvantage.com>
I used a 4 ft carpenter bubble level to check level and flat on my 4 X
12 ft work table while building my 601HDS. Worked for me.
Leo Gates
N601Z
MikeH wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: MikeH <mhilderbrand@cox.net>
>
>Not to start a huge debate on degree's of levelness.... but, My
>table, not being on wheels, had to be moved and readjusted to level
>
>
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Digital levels offer more accuracy than bubble levels (angle accuracy to
1/10 of a degree). While expensive ($90 for a 24" model) they are not
completely out of reach: http://md-smart-tool.com/index.htm
They self-calibrate: place the level on any flat surface and push a button.
Then turn it 180 degrees and push another button.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Leo Gates
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Level
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Leo Gates <leogates@allvantage.com>
I used a 4 ft carpenter bubble level to check level and flat on my 4 X
12 ft work table while building my 601HDS. Worked for me.
Leo Gates
N601Z
MikeH wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: MikeH <mhilderbrand@cox.net>
>
>Not to start a huge debate on degree's of levelness.... but, My
>table, not being on wheels, had to be moved and readjusted to level
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 801 larger horizontal tail with VGs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: japhillipsga@aol.com
Bill, thanks for the reply. I was reading it and wondered where in Arkansas Valdez
was ? And then you wrote about a 6000 foot hill and I re looked knowing I
wasn't in Arkansas anymore. Great photos, the place has a real beauty to it. Best
to you and your family this Christmas,
Bill of Georgia
N505WP
601XL-3300 w/dc 50 hours
-----Original Message-----
From: Keystone Engineering LLC <keystone@gci.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: 801 larger horizontal tail with VGs
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Keystone Engineering LLC <keystone@gci.net>
Hi
I do not have a float rating but normally you check the mags during the plowing
stage of taking off. You have full power but are going relatively slow. It is
kind of like checking the mags on a gravel strip. A lot of time I check them
while taxiing at 1500 rpm or so. I must admit it is more of a quick functional
check not a classic run up. In a Cessna or Piper you can check them during your
take off roll. Not in the 801 you are in the air too fast. Hopefully you have
done a full classic run up in the not too distant past.
When I have a big crosswind on take off or landing, I use no flaps and approach
or rotate at about 60 mph. At that speed you need to give it lots of down
elevator once you get it on the ground.
Thank goodness my home field rarely has cross winds and when there is a
crosswind it is a williwaw with 30 gusting to 60+ . Not flying weather. Even
the 121 operator takes a brake. You have to realize in Valdez there is a 6000'
mountain 1/4 mile north of the runway. The terrain warning in my Garmin 296 GPS
goes off on climb out and on base. Believe it or not it is distracting!
I'm a product of the 70's, I do full stalls and I only do a no flap landing in
a
cross wind. All other landing and take offs are with flaps. Take off with 10
degrees and landing with 40 degrees. It was calm the two days I was
practicing. I guess I should practice no flap take off and landing!
My thought is the tires wear out a lot faster than the wings. My philosophy is
get it off and on the ground at the lowest speed possible. As an engineer I
know the momentum increases at the square of the speed. If you want to walk
away from an accident it should happen at the slowest speed possible.
>Bill, educate me please. How do you do a run up/mag check on a float
>plane?
>Wouldn't you end up at the other side of the pond? On the flaps, I made
>a landing in 14 kt gust cross winds last weekend with full flaps
>That's interesting...How does it do with no flaps Bill?
here are a couple of pics.
http://www.valdezalaska.org/photoGalleries/praxFlyInGallery/007.html
N801BW coming off the beach.
http://www.valdezalaska.org/photoGalleries/praxFlyInGallery/042.html
Jim (N801ZA) taking off in the short field contest.
http://www.valdezalaska.org/photoGalleries/minishFlyInGallery/074.html
Me directing traffic on the beach during the poker run. I'm the short one.
http://www.valdezalaska.org/photoGalleries/minishFlyInGallery/115.html
Finally what I was looking for, looking east up the taxiway to the east.
http://www.valdezalaska.org/photoGalleries/minishFlyInGallery/118.html
Looking north across runway.
Bill Wilcox
N801BW
Valdez, AK
228 hrs
2.5 hrs flown off of the required 5 hrs after modification
Floats are the project after Christmas vacation.
Mele Kalikimaka
Message 14
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
Zed, I completly agree with your statement. It doesn't have to be perfectly
level as long as it is perfectly FLAT.
My opinion
Jean-Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zed Smith" <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Level table
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
>
> I'd sggest stretching a calibrated string from one end to the other and
check for FLAT.
> Then check for flat side-to-side using same string.
> That should suffice. The wings won't know level from diddle, but you
might not want to build them on a parabolic table.
>
> Let the debate begin.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Zed/701/R912/90+%/etc
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "bill naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jean-Paul Roy" <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Level table
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy"
<jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
>
All-
The table has nothing to do with it. All critical assembly is supposed
to be done with the structure resting on two "true" beams at least 2"x2"
and the appropriate shims. Just make sure the beams are level in the Y axis,
and the wing doesn't fall off the table in the X axis and you're OK. Before
you blow up, stop and think about it. You don't have to level the entire
table, just what's resting on it and contacting the wing.
Bill
do not archive
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: and we wonder why we lose airports |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
Insult to us left-coasters notwithstanding (which was totally uncalled for),
I'd be cautious next time you give your hard earned money to AOPA to save an
airport. I recently attended a meeting at an airport where my plane is being
built, and thought the purpose was to fight against a threatened airport closure.
Boy was I surprised when it soon became clear that the AOPA rep was siding
with the City to close it! When I asked why, his reponse was something akin
to "you can't fight city hall". How's that for pilot representation?
Oh, and by the way, the airport will be closed as soon as everyone is "relocated"
and (coincidentally) the developer's plans are finished.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Jeff Small <zodiacjeff@msn.com> wrote:+++ Amen! Every time the AOPA asks for money
for its defense of our flying rights and to keep airports that are under
attack from residents because of noise complaints - I give. Hard to believe
that someone would purposely put "his" field in jeopardy. The field belongs to
all the pilots who hope to use it.
A dive from 4000 with a pullout over the field at 500!!!...bet others at the field
love your pattern manners. Hopefully someone will report you to the local
FAA branch, and thankfully the original poster is on the Left Coast.
do not archive
---------------------------------
Message 17
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: alex trent <atrent7@cogeco.ca>
Does anyone know where one can purchase a 3/32" dimple die for a "pop
rivet puller"?
I have a 1/8" that I picked up at Oshkosh several years back but I now
need 3/32".
alex
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Level table. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Just one example:
I still have my drawing table from college time, now I draw with the computer
and a cad program, the table, rulers and pens are useless now.
I dont want to trow them away, so great memories, so I use it to assemble R/C
planes and model plastic cars. As any drawing table is not level BUT flat.
All the models come out as they should.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Jean-Paul Roy <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy"
Zed, I completly agree with your statement. It doesn't have to be perfectly
level as long as it is perfectly FLAT.
My opinion
Jean-Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zed Smith"
Subject: Zenith-List: Level table
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith
>
> I'd sggest stretching a calibrated string from one end to the other and
check for FLAT.
> Then check for flat side-to-side using same string.
> That should suffice. The wings won't know level from diddle, but you
might not want to build them on a parabolic table.
>
> Let the debate begin.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Zed/701/R912/90+%/etc
>
> do not archive
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 19
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
Bill
You are right except it is alot easier to build by laying the 2x2's on a
true table and not have to worry about shimming them.
do not archive
All-
The table has nothing to do with it. All critical assembly is supposed
to be done with the structure resting on two "true" beams at least 2"x2"
and the appropriate shims. Just make sure the beams are level in the Y axis,
and the wing doesn't fall off the table in the X axis and you're OK. Before
you blow up, stop and think about it. You don't have to level the entire
table, just what's resting on it and contacting the wing.
Bill
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: and we wonder why we lose airports. Naah |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Yes, Airports and Trailer Parks have similar fate... They are originaly built
away from the city in low price land, once the city covers them, the land price
goes up and is ready for a big luxuy condo or industrial area. Most times
the members of the hall and the pilot comunity rep, get "shares" in the project,
of course, once they finish their service time... Sometimes they dont
get what promised, but cant complain :-)
Same all over the world. Just some countries dont admit it.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Do not archive.
Mike <rsq2424@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike
Insult to us left-coasters notwithstanding (which was totally uncalled for), I'd
be cautious next time you give your hard earned money to AOPA to save an airport.
I recently attended a meeting at an airport where my plane is being built,
and thought the purpose was to fight against a threatened airport closure.
Boy was I surprised when it soon became clear that the AOPA rep was siding with
the City to close it! When I asked why, his reponse was something akin to "you
can't fight city hall". How's that for pilot representation?
Oh, and by the way, the airport will be closed as soon as everyone is "relocated"
and (coincidentally) the developer's plans are finished.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Jeff Small wrote:+++ Amen! Every time the AOPA asks for money for its defense of
our flying rights and to keep airports that are under attack from residents
because of noise complaints - I give. Hard to believe that someone would purposely
put "his" field in jeopardy. The field belongs to all the pilots who hope
to use it.
A dive from 4000 with a pullout over the field at 500!!!...bet others at the field
love your pattern manners. Hopefully someone will report you to the local
FAA branch, and thankfully the original poster is on the Left Coast.
do not archive
---------------------------------
Message 21
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "lynn dingfelder" <ding@tbscc.com>
www.aircraft-tool.com
do not archive
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