---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/15/05: 39 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:57 AM - Re: Level table () 2. 04:14 AM - Re: dimpe die (Dave Austin) 3. 04:56 AM - dimple die (alex trent) 4. 05:21 AM - More "Level Table" (Zed Smith) 5. 05:24 AM - Fw: Zenith-list: hds.corvair (Dave & Doretta New) 6. 05:38 AM - Re: Level table (John Flavin) 7. 05:52 AM - Re: More "Level Table" (VideoFlyer@aol.com) 8. 07:38 AM - Re: dimpe die (Jean-Paul Roy) 9. 08:56 AM - Re: fuel system questions (Carlos Sa) 10. 10:29 AM - leveling the table (Brett Hanley) 11. 11:08 AM - new to the list (Ben Ramler) 12. 11:19 AM - Re: Fw: Zenith-list: hds.corvair (Larry McFarland) 13. 11:26 AM - Re: new to the list (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 14. 12:00 PM - Re: new to the list (Ben Ramler) 15. 12:01 PM - Re: Fw: Zenith-list: hds.corvair (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 16. 12:15 PM - Re: More "Level Table". By design, "Flat for the 701." (JERICKSON03E@aol.com) 17. 12:24 PM - Re: new to the list (Larry McFarland) 18. 12:28 PM - Re: new to the list (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 19. 12:59 PM - Re: and we wonder why we lose airports () 20. 01:11 PM - Re: new to the list (zodie rocket) 21. 01:23 PM - Re: dimple die (lynn dingfelder) 22. 01:55 PM - All seriousness aside...... (Zed Smith) 23. 01:59 PM - Re: Fw: Zenith-list: hds.corvair (B Johnson) 24. 02:14 PM - Re: Fw: Zenith-list: hds.corvair (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 25. 02:54 PM - Re: Fw: Zenith-list: hds.corvair (jnbolding1) 26. 03:17 PM - Re: dimple die (bill naumuk) 27. 03:23 PM - Re: Fw: Zenith-list: hds.corvair (Larry McFarland) 28. 03:33 PM - Re: fuel system questions (Bryan Martin) 29. 03:36 PM - Re: Fw: Zenith-list: hds.corvair (bill naumuk) 30. 04:46 PM - Re: new to the list (Tony & Peggy Pierce) 31. 05:07 PM - Re: All seriousness aside...... (N5SL) 32. 05:13 PM - Zenith-list: hds.corvair (David Alberti) 33. 06:43 PM - Re: Fw: Zenith-list: hds.corvair (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 34. 07:11 PM - Re: Zenith-list: hds.corvair (Paul Mulwitz) 35. 07:46 PM - Re: new to the list (Craig Payne) 36. 08:08 PM - Re: Zenith-list: hds.corvair (Craig Payne) 37. 09:00 PM - Re: and we wonder why we lose airports (Steve Hulland) 38. 09:37 PM - Fw: Zenith-list: hds.corvair (Paul Moore) 39. 09:39 PM - Re: and we wonder why we lose airports (Mike) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:57:26 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Level table From: --> Zenith-List message posted by: > How do others' level their table? Wings.. etc. > would a water level be accurate enough you think? > thanks > mike Mike, having a table that folds up against the garage wall has given me some experience. I have like you a laser leveller, digital angle meter and water levellers available, but after the first months I have never bothered with anything else than a simple water leveller to adjust the table by putting thin slices of wwod under the table feet. The precision is enough but what is more important is to measure at several places in order to guard against any twist of the table surface. rgrds Max, 701 builder in Helsinki ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:14:20 AM PST US From: "Dave Austin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: dimpe die --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" I have 3/32, 1/8 and 5/32 dimple dies I don't need any more. Also the Avery rivet and die squeezer. Send me a msg off line. Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:56:27 AM PST US From: alex trent Subject: Zenith-List: dimple die --> Zenith-List message posted by: alex trent they son't show a die that can be used in a pop rivet tool. > > >Time: 07:28:05 PM PST US >From: "lynn dingfelder" >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: dimpe die > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "lynn dingfelder" > >www.aircraft-tool.com > >do not archive > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:56 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: More "Level Table" --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith Gentlemen: One item is being overlooked in the "work table" discussion. After determining that the work surface is "flat", one should raise the outboard end of the table by an amount equal to the desired wing dihedral in the finished product. Reverse the process for the other wing. Mark the sides of the table as to "fore" and "aft", and "left" and "right", so you don't end up with opposing dihedral. This condition is detrimental to good flight characteristics. This, and other neat info, can be found on Page 13 of the ZAC Manual. (the Zed's Airplane College Manual). Only eight more shopping days 'til Christmas. Your local diamond merchant can explain how to safely continue building airplanes. Regards to all, Zed/701/R912/90+%/etc do not archive!! ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:24:45 AM PST US From: "Dave & Doretta New" Subject: Zenith-List: Fw: Zenith-list: hds.corvair --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Doretta New" List Are there many with 601 HDS and corvair power? If so, Could you report on empty weight and performance numbers. I have a 601 HDS taildragger N928dn appox 160 hrs. Empty weight 725 lbs. three way GPS ground speed average 129 mph @4550 rpm. Empty weight went up with larger radiator and 2 oil coolers. Been reading all the info about corvair power. Have not found any thing about the empty weight and performance numbers. Been thinking about converting to Corvair but would like some real world numbers from people who have done it. Even Willam Wynne has not posted any performance numbers. Only that his 601XL cruses about 130 mph. Have read in the magazines that several people have converted there KR's from Subaru over to corvair and saved weight. So if anybody is flying a HDS with Corvair could you help me out. The Corvair intrest me, But converting over would be a lot of work. Thank you Dave New 601 HDS Taildragger N928DN ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:22 AM PST US From: "John Flavin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Level table --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Flavin" Definitely need a good flat (not necessarily level) table before you start. Makes all the difference in the world keeping twist out of the airfoils. I ended up using a water level and shims under the legs to level the tabletop all around the edges. Then I put a sheet of 5/16" plywood on top and used a taut string and also a straight piece of light angle-iron to check for flatness. I slid shims under the plywood as required to take out the ripple. Has worked great. If you are careful to use flat stock for propping up the assemblies as you build, you never have to worry about twist again. John Flavin Raleigh, NC CH701STOL tail, wings done working on flaperons and slats ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:01 AM PST US From: VideoFlyer@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More "Level Table" --> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com <<<< Mark the sides of the table as to "fore" and "aft", and "left" and "right", so you don't end up with opposing dihedral. This condition is detrimental to good flight characteristics. >>>>> <<<<< Only eight more shopping days 'til Christmas. Your local diamond merchant can explain how to safely continue building airplanes. >>>> Too Funny!!!! :-) Dave 601XL/Corvair ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:21 AM PST US From: "Jean-Paul Roy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: dimpe die --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" Alex, this is what I read on this list several days back: "Another possible countersink solution for minimal usage is dimple die sets that are pulled with a "pop" riveter. www.aircraft-tool.com has them for $5.95 each in 3/32 and 1/8, part no. 5102D-3/32 and -1/8. They are 100 deg. for solid rivets" Hope this helps Jean-Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "alex trent" Subject: Zenith-List: dimpe die > --> Zenith-List message posted by: alex trent > > Does anyone know where one can purchase a 3/32" dimple die for a "pop > rivet puller"? > I have a 1/8" that I picked up at Oshkosh several years back but I now > need 3/32". > alex > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:51 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: RE: Zenith-List: fuel system questions --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Frank, where would I need the flex hose? I thought you could run aluminum all the way from the tanks to the engine? Carlos do not archive "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" ... Note the tube is for rigid installation...I.e you still need flex hose which brings up the question of how to connect it. ... --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:29:15 AM PST US From: Brett Hanley Subject: Zenith-List: leveling the table --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brett Hanley Leveling the table isn't that big a deal. You should be able to get within 0.03 with this method in less than ten minutes. That's more than close enough. This isnt going to be a fighter jet!! Just use a quality four foot carpenters level. Start at the middle and level it crosswise then work out to the ends. Once done you should be able to put your level on the table anywhere and it will read level. Flat is much more important than level. Level is handy if you want to use a spirit type protractor to set some of the angles. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:08:19 AM PST US From: Ben Ramler Subject: Zenith-List: new to the list --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ben Ramler Hello Zenith Builders and Flyers, My name's Ben Ramler. I live in Granite Falls, MN which is 140 miles due west of mpls. I'm thinking about getting my sport pilot lic. so I can go flying. Right now the only way for me to do that is to build an airplane first. Anyways my next question is this.. Who on the list is either building or flying a CH-701? What I'd like to know is what does airplane handle like, is it a forgiving aircraft? How was the construction of it? that kind of stuff. The reason I'm not looking at the 601 is because you can't see below and I'd like to see below me. thanks & Merry Christmas Ben Ramler --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:19:18 AM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: Zenith-list: hds.corvair --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Dave, I too fly an HDS and still occasionally look at the Corvair. It's an excellent engine. It should definitely go faster, but not sure how much. Soon to arrive in early 2006 is the all new 3000 engine, (no VW parts) from Revmaster. Air or water cooled with turbo as option starting at less than $10K. 110 hp and much simpler than the Rotax or Subaru. Just see the article at this link. Contact Magazine did a great piece on it and it had been supercharged to 400 hp just to proof the mechanicals, in development testing before user flight evaluations which are now under way. This one will influence the price of the current 100 HP market and it's an all new engine from the centerline out. Weight 205 lbs. . http://www.revmasteraviation.com/products/under_development/ Larry McFarland - 601HDS - Stratus Subaru - 730 lbs, Cruise 125 mph at 4700. at www.macsmachine.com Dave & Doretta New wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Doretta New" > > >List >Are there many with 601 HDS and corvair power? If so, Could you report on empty weight and performance numbers. I have a 601 HDS taildragger N928dn appox 160 hrs. Empty weight 725 lbs. three way GPS ground speed average 129 mph @4550 rpm. Empty weight went up with larger radiator and 2 oil coolers. >Been reading all the info about corvair power. Have not found any thing about the empty weight and performance numbers. Been thinking about converting to Corvair but would like some real world numbers from people who have done it. Even Willam Wynne has not posted any performance numbers. Only that his 601XL cruses about 130 mph. Have read in the magazines that several people have converted there KR's from Subaru over to corvair and saved weight. So if anybody is flying a HDS with Corvair could you help me out. The Corvair intrest me, But converting over would be a lot of work. >Thank you >Dave New >601 HDS Taildragger >N928DN > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:26 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: new to the list From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" If you want a deal you can often find one already built for less than it will cost to build your own. Of course you won't be able to sign off on your own annual inspections but it will be proven and can represent quite a deal. Shame you don't want a low...My HDS is almost for sale..:) Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Ramler Subject: Zenith-List: new to the list --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ben Ramler Hello Zenith Builders and Flyers, My name's Ben Ramler. I live in Granite Falls, MN which is 140 miles due west of mpls. I'm thinking about getting my sport pilot lic. so I can go flying. Right now the only way for me to do that is to build an airplane first. Anyways my next question is this.. Who on the list is either building or flying a CH-701? What I'd like to know is what does airplane handle like, is it a forgiving aircraft? How was the construction of it? that kind of stuff. The reason I'm not looking at the 601 is because you can't see below and I'd like to see below me. thanks & Merry Christmas Ben Ramler --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:00:26 PM PST US From: Ben Ramler Subject: RE: Zenith-List: new to the list --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ben Ramler Nice idea frank but however in a low wing you can't really see anything though below you or can you? maybe I'm worng? "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" If you want a deal you can often find one already built for less than it will cost to build your own. Of course you won't be able to sign off on your own annual inspections but it will be proven and can represent quite a deal. Shame you don't want a low...My HDS is almost for sale..:) Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Ramler Subject: Zenith-List: new to the list --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ben Ramler Hello Zenith Builders and Flyers, My name's Ben Ramler. I live in Granite Falls, MN which is 140 miles due west of mpls. I'm thinking about getting my sport pilot lic. so I can go flying. Right now the only way for me to do that is to build an airplane first. Anyways my next question is this.. Who on the list is either building or flying a CH-701? What I'd like to know is what does airplane handle like, is it a forgiving aircraft? How was the construction of it? that kind of stuff. The reason I'm not looking at the 601 is because you can't see below and I'd like to see below me. thanks & Merry Christmas Ben Ramler --------------------------------- --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:53 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fw: Zenith-list: hds.corvair From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Hi Larry, Yes an airrcooled engine will definatly be faster than a water cooled unit, as you say the question is "how much"? Considering the HD/HDS cruise in the order of 100mph, an Rv around 200. Rumour has it that a water cooled motor in an RV will cost you 20MPH at cruise. Going from 100 to 200mph the drag is of course is multiplied by a factor of 4. So going water cooled to aircooled at 100mph is...20/4 =5mph.... I.e not much If I were keeping the HDS I bet there are better drag reduction opportunities than a new engine would provide, so personally I would start there. The huge cowl opening is a monstrous drag maker on a Subaru, totally unecessary. If one were to fit a bigger spinner and make a new nose for the cowl that had no air intake and closely aligned with the spinner I bet you would get more benefit than a new motor would give you. Your radiator scoop I'm sure is quite a benefit too. Personally after I had these two mods I might consider an engine swap, but remember the Soob (even the Stratus) has quite a good track record of reliable operation now. FWIW Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: Zenith-list: hds.corvair --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland --> Dave, I too fly an HDS and still occasionally look at the Corvair. It's an excellent engine. It should definitely go faster, but not sure how much. Soon to arrive in early 2006 is the all new 3000 engine, (no VW parts) from Revmaster. Air or water cooled with turbo as option starting at less than $10K. 110 hp and much simpler than the Rotax or Subaru. Just see the article at this link. Contact Magazine did a great piece on it and it had been supercharged to 400 hp just to proof the mechanicals, in development testing before user flight evaluations which are now under way. This one will influence the price of the current 100 HP market and it's an all new engine from the centerline out. Weight 205 lbs. . http://www.revmasteraviation.com/products/under_development/ Larry McFarland - 601HDS - Stratus Subaru - 730 lbs, Cruise 125 mph at 4700. at www.macsmachine.com Dave & Doretta New wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Doretta New" >--> > > >List >Are there many with 601 HDS and corvair power? If so, Could you report on empty weight and performance numbers. I have a 601 HDS taildragger N928dn appox 160 hrs. Empty weight 725 lbs. three way GPS ground speed average 129 mph @4550 rpm. Empty weight went up with larger radiator and 2 oil coolers. >Been reading all the info about corvair power. Have not found any thing about the empty weight and performance numbers. Been thinking about converting to Corvair but would like some real world numbers from people who have done it. Even Willam Wynne has not posted any performance numbers. Only that his 601XL cruses about 130 mph. Have read in the magazines that several people have converted there KR's from Subaru over to corvair and saved weight. So if anybody is flying a HDS with Corvair could you help me out. The Corvair intrest me, But converting over would be a lot of work. >Thank you >Dave New >601 HDS Taildragger >N928DN > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:15:47 PM PST US From: JERICKSON03E@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More "Level Table". By design, "Flat for the 701." --> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com In a message dated 12/15/2005 7:23:13 AM Central Standard Time, zsmith3rd@earthlink.net writes: One item is being overlooked in the "work table" discussion. After determining that the work surface is "flat", one should raise the outboard end of the table by an amount equal to the desired wing dihedral in the finished product. "FLAT" is what is needed for the thirteen airfoils of the 701. Fuselage as well. [Wing twist, not to be confused with dihedral, is accomplished by off setting the flaperons, great design too.] [ Dihedral is set with wing strut length.] [For those that don't build using the flat table, Mr. Heintz has written in the ZAC News letter on ways to deal with unfortunately twisted airfoils.] A flat work table surface is the prime piece of tooling for keeping twist out of the 701 airfoils and fuselage. Flat is Flat, should not be confused with Level. An easy way to assemble the flat work table is to use extension ladder sections topped with good plywood to start with. Plans for same were in the ZAC News Letter 135. "Level,",, is useful when squaring the fuselage, a one time event. Just adding to the loooong & useful discussion. Jerry 701SP, wings, tail, fuselage done, eight airfoils to go. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:24:45 PM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: new to the list --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Ben, The 701 is being built in huge numbers by people liking STOL properties. The ability to land in short spaces is a real draw. I don't see the comparative of low wing versus high because with the 701 you get to look down at things for a considerable period of time. The 601 has a tremendous visual effect and you should fly both aircraft, possibly at Mexico Missouri before deciding. They're about the same amount and level of work. Hate to sound partial, but you need to know the kind of flying you want to do as well. I am constantly amazed at the distance some have flown in the 701 at speeds that have to compete with prevailing winds. Get some airtime by looking up your nearest flying 701 or 601 at the following links which show who's building or flying what and where. * * *http://www.frappr.com/zenith701* * * *http://www.frappr.com/zenith601* Good luck, Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive Ben Ramler wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ben Ramler > >Hello Zenith Builders and Flyers, > > My name's Ben Ramler. I live in Granite Falls, MN which is 140 miles due west of mpls. I'm thinking about getting my sport pilot lic. so I can go flying. Right now the only way for me to do that is to build an airplane first. Anyways my next question is this.. Who on the list is either building or flying a CH-701? What I'd like to know is what does airplane handle like, is it a forgiving aircraft? How was the construction of it? that kind of stuff. The reason I'm not looking at the 601 is because you can't see below and I'd like to see below me. > > > thanks & Merry Christmas > > > Ben Ramler > > >--------------------------------- > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:28:27 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: new to the list From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Your not wrong Ben, It really depends on what you want. I find the high wing planes to be somewhat claustraphobic (sp?) because you have the wing above and the fuse below, Where as on a low wing plane its all below you giivng u a clear view above and to the sides. They are not the best spotting aircraft though and you need to roll to a steep angle to see directly below you. You may well find a better deal on a completed 701 rather than building your own though. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Ramler Subject: RE: Zenith-List: new to the list --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ben Ramler Nice idea frank but however in a low wing you can't really see anything though below you or can you? maybe I'm worng? "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" If you want a deal you can often find one already built for less than it will cost to build your own. Of course you won't be able to sign off on your own annual inspections but it will be proven and can represent quite a deal. Shame you don't want a low...My HDS is almost for sale..:) Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Ramler Subject: Zenith-List: new to the list --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ben Ramler Hello Zenith Builders and Flyers, My name's Ben Ramler. I live in Granite Falls, MN which is 140 miles due west of mpls. I'm thinking about getting my sport pilot lic. so I can go flying. Right now the only way for me to do that is to build an airplane first. Anyways my next question is this.. Who on the list is either building or flying a CH-701? What I'd like to know is what does airplane handle like, is it a forgiving aircraft? How was the construction of it? that kind of stuff. The reason I'm not looking at the 601 is because you can't see below and I'd like to see below me. thanks & Merry Christmas Ben Ramler --------------------------------- --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:59:51 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: and we wonder why we lose airports --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike, you should contact AOPA and raise hell and demand that they tell you what exactly is on their minds. It may be that the "AOPA rep" was a local volunteer who wasn't sufficiently motivated and/or armed to do battle with them. I'd certainly be surprised if AOPA just rolled over without some good reason. Paul Rodriguez 601XL/Corvair DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 6:44 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: and we wonder why we lose airports --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike > Insult to us left-coasters notwithstanding (which was totally uncalled for), I'd be cautious next time you give your hard earned money to AOPA to save an airport. I recently attended a meeting at an airport where my plane is being built, and thought the purpose was to fight against a threatened airport closure. Boy was I surprised when it soon became clear that the AOPA rep was siding with the City to close it! When I asked why, his reponse was something akin to "you can't fight city hall". How's that for pilot representation? Oh, and by the way, the airport will be closed as soon as everyone is "relocated" and (coincidentally) the developer's plans are finished. DO NOT ARCHIVE Jeff Small > wrote:+++ Amen! Every time the AOPA asks for money for its defense of our flying rights and to keep airports that are under attack from residents because of noise complaints - I give. Hard to believe that someone would purposely put "his" field in jeopardy. The field belongs to all the pilots who hope to use it. A dive from 4000 with a pullout over the field at 500!!!...bet others at the field love your pattern manners. Hopefully someone will report you to the local FAA branch, and thankfully the original poster is on the Left Coast. do not archive --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:26 PM PST US From: "zodie rocket" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: new to the list --> Zenith-List message posted by: "zodie rocket" http://www.can-zacaviation.com/zodiac/zenith_vs_zenith.htm Give this link a try to help in the decision. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: new to the list > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland > > Ben, > The 701 is being built in huge numbers by people liking STOL > properties. The ability to land in short spaces is > a real draw. I don't see the comparative of low wing versus high > because with the 701 you get to look > down at things for a considerable period of time. The 601 has a > tremendous visual effect and you should fly both > aircraft, possibly at Mexico Missouri before deciding. They're about > the same amount and level of work. > Hate to sound partial, but you need to know the kind of flying you want > to do as well. I am constantly amazed > at the distance some have flown in the 701 at speeds that have to > compete with prevailing winds. > Get some airtime by looking up your nearest flying 701 or 601 at the > following links which show who's building > or flying what and where. > * * > *http://www.frappr.com/zenith701* > * * > *http://www.frappr.com/zenith601* > > Good luck, > > Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > do not archive > > > Ben Ramler wrote: > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ben Ramler > > > >Hello Zenith Builders and Flyers, > > > > My name's Ben Ramler. I live in Granite Falls, MN which is 140 miles due west of mpls. I'm thinking about getting my sport pilot lic. so I can go flying. Right now the only way for me to do that is to build an airplane first. Anyways my next question is this.. Who on the list is either building or flying a CH-701? What I'd like to know is what does airplane handle like, is it a forgiving aircraft? How was the construction of it? that kind of stuff. The reason I'm not looking at the 601 is because you can't see below and I'd like to see below me. > > > > > > thanks & Merry Christmas > > > > > > Ben Ramler > > > > > >--------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:04 PM PST US From: "lynn dingfelder" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: dimple die --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lynn dingfelder" Alex, It's in their printed catalog on page 33. Perhaps they don't show it online. Part no. is 5102D-3/32 and 5102D-1/8 at $5.95 each. Lynn ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:36 PM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: All seriousness aside...... --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith Just so everybody knows ahead of time in advance, without appearing too overly redundant, the deadline for submitting briefs concerning the Work Table issue is 0-dark-thirty GMT, Friday, 16 December 2005. Those without briefs may submit boxers, if accompanied by a waver. Waver must be sober and properly attired. Some of the heretofore untouched topics include: Work surface height above floor, Remaining overhead clearance (subtract A from B, add square of sum of both, allowing for edge distance), Color and type of paint for said table, Floating table in large vessel of water to maintain level, Accessibility by left-handed persons, and, Plumb. Not one mention has been made of plumb. It is nearly impossible to build airplanes without having proper toilet facilities available. Stand by a moment.......I've just been advised of the difference between plumb and plumbing. Delete the reference to "facilities". Anyway, "plumb" requires a "bob". Suspended by the previously-mentioned calibrated string. Can we get a dissertation on the effect of gravity on a plumb bob before the deadline? Or is that Bob? Hi, Bob! Does anybody have a photo of the table used by Orville and Wilbur? Makes a great starting point, and shims might resurrect it. Absolutely DO NOT ARCHIVE now or ever or never, whichever comes last !! Zed/etc/etc/..... ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:59:15 PM PST US From: "B Johnson" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fw: Zenith-list: hds.corvair --> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" Larry, I hope your right about the "coming in early 2006" part. Unfortunately the web page for the engine has not been updated since Feb of 2003. I dunno what they are waiting on... I'd love to be able to put that in my Sonex (if it comes in light enough). I guess I'm going to have to subscribe to contact to find out,... been meaning to anyway. I've got probably 2 years till I have to for sure make an engine decision, so they better hurry up -Bruce J -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: Zenith-list: hds.corvair --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Dave, I too fly an HDS and still occasionally look at the Corvair. It's an excellent engine. It should definitely go faster, but not sure how much. Soon to arrive in early 2006 is the all new 3000 engine, (no VW parts) from Revmaster. Air or water cooled with turbo as option starting at less than $10K. 110 hp and much simpler than the Rotax or Subaru. Just see the article at this link. Contact Magazine did a great piece on it and it had been supercharged to 400 hp just to proof the mechanicals, in development testing before user flight evaluations which are now under way. This one will influence the price of the current 100 HP market and it's an all new engine from the centerline out. Weight 205 lbs. . http://www.revmasteraviation.com/products/under_development/ -- ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:08 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fw: Zenith-list: hds.corvair From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" 2 years is hurrying up...:) There are many products that are based on promisses but fail to deliver...We have all been waiting for at least 2 years to get the turbine engine...Many have placed deposits and no engines. Dynacam...Smae thing about 6 years ago many folks paid them a lot of money...No engines have been built. Even when there is a prototype there are many many unforseen pitfalls ready to strike at a new design...If the cost of the pitfalls proves prohibitive, the company goes under and you have a useless engine. My point is...tried, tested and trusted means an awful lot in the aviation world. Tread carefully. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Johnson Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fw: Zenith-list: hds.corvair --> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" Larry, I hope your right about the "coming in early 2006" part. Unfortunately the web page for the engine has not been updated since Feb of 2003. I dunno what they are waiting on... I'd love to be able to put that in my Sonex (if it comes in light enough). I guess I'm going to have to subscribe to contact to find out,... been meaning to anyway. I've got probably 2 years till I have to for sure make an engine decision, so they better hurry up -Bruce J -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: Zenith-list: hds.corvair --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland --> Dave, I too fly an HDS and still occasionally look at the Corvair. It's an excellent engine. It should definitely go faster, but not sure how much. Soon to arrive in early 2006 is the all new 3000 engine, (no VW parts) from Revmaster. Air or water cooled with turbo as option starting at less than $10K. 110 hp and much simpler than the Rotax or Subaru. Just see the article at this link. Contact Magazine did a great piece on it and it had been supercharged to 400 hp just to proof the mechanicals, in development testing before user flight evaluations which are now under way. This one will influence the price of the current 100 HP market and it's an all new engine from the centerline out. Weight 205 lbs. . http://www.revmasteraviation.com/products/under_development/ -- ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:22 PM PST US From: "jnbolding1" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fw: Zenith-list: hds.corvair --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" >There are many products that are based on promisses but fail to >deliver...We have all been waiting for at least 2 years to get the >turbine engine...Many have placed deposits and no engines. > >Dynacam...Smae thing about 6 years ago many folks paid them a lot of >money...No engines have been built. I investigated them (Dynacam) over 20 yrs ago with the intent to invest, my broker (also a Glasair lll driver) had a contact with the FAA that told him that no way were they going to be allowed to produce that engine under the current type certificate. Saved a lot of money. Lots of sharks out there and as Jimmy Buffett (my hero) says that a lot of them have 2 legs. LOW&SLOW John ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:17:17 PM PST US From: "bill naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: dimple die --> Zenith-List message posted by: "bill naumuk" Alex- As I remember, they're on page 7 or 9 of the on-line catalog. Talked my wife into buying me a couple for Christmas- came in 3 days. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "lynn dingfelder" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: dimple die > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lynn dingfelder" > > Alex, > It's in their printed catalog on page 33. Perhaps they don't > show it online. Part no. is 5102D-3/32 and 5102D-1/8 at $5.95 each. > Lynn > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:23:20 PM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: Zenith-list: hds.corvair --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Frank, I'd not switch to go to the air cooled option. I'd go water cooled as speed is not the criteria most important to me. I like the quiet of the water cooled engine, the simplicity of the Subaru. I was impressed with the same simplicity of the Corvair and more recently the 3000 engine. I hope it beats the snot out of the Rotax market because I think they're over priced and far too restrictively complex with their AD notes etc. Probably be a while before I switch because I best like the economy of 3.5 gallons per hour when just tooling around on $2.19 mogas. Larry McFarland do not archive Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > >Hi Larry, > >Yes an airrcooled engine will definatly be faster than a water cooled >unit, as you say the question is "how much"? > >Considering the HD/HDS cruise in the order of 100mph, an Rv around 200. >Rumour has it that a water cooled motor in an RV will cost you 20MPH at >cruise. > >Going from 100 to 200mph the drag is of course is multiplied by a factor >of 4. > >So going water cooled to aircooled at 100mph is...20/4 =5mph.... > >I.e not much > >If I were keeping the HDS I bet there are better drag reduction >opportunities than a new engine would provide, so personally I would >start there. The huge cowl opening is a monstrous drag maker on a >Subaru, totally unecessary. If one were to fit a bigger spinner and make >a new nose for the cowl that had no air intake and closely aligned with >the spinner I bet you would get more benefit than a new motor would give >you. > >Your radiator scoop I'm sure is quite a benefit too. > >Personally after I had these two mods I might consider an engine swap, >but remember the Soob (even the Stratus) has quite a good track record >of reliable operation now. > >FWIW > >Frank > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry >McFarland >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: Zenith-list: hds.corvair > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland >--> > >Dave, >I too fly an HDS and still occasionally look at the Corvair. It's an >excellent engine. It should definitely go faster, but not sure how >much. Soon to arrive in early 2006 is the all new 3000 engine, (no VW >parts) from Revmaster. >Air or water cooled with turbo as option starting at less than $10K. >110 hp and much simpler than the >Rotax or Subaru. Just see the article at this link. Contact Magazine >did a great piece on it and it had been supercharged to 400 hp just to >proof the mechanicals, in development testing before user flight >evaluations which are now under way. This one will influence the price >of the current 100 HP market and it's an all new engine from the >centerline out. Weight 205 lbs. >. >http://www.revmasteraviation.com/products/under_development/ > >Larry McFarland - 601HDS - Stratus Subaru - 730 lbs, Cruise 125 mph at >4700. >at www.macsmachine.com > >Dave & Doretta New wrote: > > > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Doretta New" >>--> >> >> >>List >>Are there many with 601 HDS and corvair power? If so, Could you report >> >> >on empty weight and performance numbers. I have a 601 HDS taildragger >N928dn appox 160 hrs. Empty weight 725 lbs. three way GPS ground speed >average 129 mph @4550 rpm. Empty weight went up with larger radiator and >2 oil coolers. > > >>Been reading all the info about corvair power. Have not found any thing >> >> >about the empty weight and performance numbers. Been thinking about >converting to Corvair but would like some real world numbers from people >who have done it. Even Willam Wynne has not posted any performance >numbers. Only that his 601XL cruses about 130 mph. Have read in the >magazines that several people have converted there KR's from Subaru over >to corvair and saved weight. So if anybody is flying a HDS with Corvair >could you help me out. The Corvair intrest me, But converting over would >be a lot of work. > > >>Thank you >>Dave New >>601 HDS Taildragger >>N928DN >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:05 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel system questions From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin You should use flexible fuel line between the firewall and the engine. Aluminum tubing can work harden and get brittle with age due to the constant flexing caused by engine vibration. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive. on 12/15/05 11:51 AM, Carlos Sa at carlosfsa@yahoo.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > > Frank, where would I need the flex hose? > > I thought you could run aluminum all the way from the tanks to the engine? > > Carlos > do not archive > > "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" wrote: --> Zenith-List > message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > ... > > Note the tube is for rigid installation...I.e you still need flex hose > which brings up the question of how to connect it. > ... > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:36:10 PM PST US From: "bill naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: Zenith-list: hds.corvair --> Zenith-List message posted by: "bill naumuk" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: Zenith-list: hds.corvair > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland > > Dave, > I too fly an HDS and still occasionally look at the Corvair. It's an > excellent engine. It should definitely go faster, but > not sure how much. Soon to arrive in early 2006 is the all new 3000 > engine, (no VW parts) from Revmaster. > Air or water cooled with turbo as option starting at less than $10K. > 110 hp and much simpler than the > Rotax or Subaru. Just see the article at this link. Contact Magazine > did a great piece on it and it > had been supercharged to 400 hp just to proof the mechanicals, in > development testing before user flight > evaluations which are now under way. This one will influence the price > of the current 100 HP market and it's > an all new engine from the centerline out. Weight 205 lbs. Larry- You know I haven't made up my mind on a powerplant yet, but I'm sure going to lean towards a company offering a balanced firewall forward kit. In my brief look at the Revmaster site, I didn't see any mention of FFW, just the engine. Hope you guys at Revmaster read the posts, because there are probably a lot more lazy bums like me out there! Bill > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:46:13 PM PST US From: "Tony & Peggy Pierce" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: new to the list --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tony & Peggy Pierce" Ben... we've just started flying our 701 with bubble doors. The visibility is incredible. Several times I've checked my seatbelt just because I feel like I'm leaning out of the airplane when I look down. Tony Pierce N702PY CH701/912ULS Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Ramler" Subject: Zenith-List: new to the list > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ben Ramler > > Hello Zenith Builders and Flyers, > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:07:43 PM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: All seriousness aside...... --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Zed you crack me up! Do NOT archive Scott Laughlin My toilet is 100% flat and level --- Zed Smith wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith > the Work Table > issue is 0-dark-thirty GMT, Friday, 16 December > 2005. ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 05:13:50 PM PST US From: "David Alberti" Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith-list: hds.corvair --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Alberti" Larry et al, The Rotax is a very simple engine, no more complex than a Corvair or Subaru and probably on a par with Jabaru if you discount the 8 bolts (aprox.) to remove the reduction unit. I've taken the Rotax repair seminar and I am therefore "qualified" in Rotax's eyes to perform teardown and rebuild maintenance, but anyone with engine rebuild experience could easily do it. You have to remember, the AD's you spoke of are written for the "Certificated" versions of the Rotax engines, and as such are not any more restrictive or complex than an AD for a Lycoming in a Cessna. I'll admit the Rotax is a little more pricey than some of the alternatives, but the only difference between engines coming off the assembly line is the pile of certification papers attached to the Certificated version. Besides that, any engine produced in the land of the Euro is going to be more costly. And Larry, the technical innovations, tools and methods you bring to this forum tell me you could rebuild a Rotax with your eyes blindfolded. Dave 601-HD 912ULS -----Original Message----- posted by: Larry McFarland Frank, I'd not switch to go to the air cooled option. I'd go water cooled as speed is not the criteria most important to me. I like the quiet of the water cooled engine, the simplicity of the Subaru. I was impressed with the same simplicity of the Corvair and more recently the 3000 engine. I hope it beats the snot out of the Rotax market because I think they're over priced and far too restrictively complex with their AD notes etc. Probably be a while before I switch because I best like the economy of 3.5 gallons per hour when just tooling around on $2.19 mogas. Larry McFarland do not archive Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > >Hi Larry, > >Yes an airrcooled engine will definatly be faster than a water cooled >unit, as you say the question is "how much"? > >Considering the HD/HDS cruise in the order of 100mph, an Rv around 200. >Rumour has it that a water cooled motor in an RV will cost you 20MPH at >cruise. > >Going from 100 to 200mph the drag is of course is multiplied by a factor >of 4. > >So going water cooled to aircooled at 100mph is...20/4 =5mph.... > >I.e not much > >If I were keeping the HDS I bet there are better drag reduction >opportunities than a new engine would provide, so personally I would >start there. The huge cowl opening is a monstrous drag maker on a >Subaru, totally unecessary. If one were to fit a bigger spinner and make >a new nose for the cowl that had no air intake and closely aligned with >the spinner I bet you would get more benefit than a new motor would give >you. > >Your radiator scoop I'm sure is quite a benefit too. > >Personally after I had these two mods I might consider an engine swap, >but remember the Soob (even the Stratus) has quite a good track record >of reliable operation now. > >FWIW > >Frank > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry >McFarland >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: Zenith-list: hds.corvair > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland >--> > >Dave, >I too fly an HDS and still occasionally look at the Corvair. It's an >excellent engine. It should definitely go faster, but not sure how >much. Soon to arrive in early 2006 is the all new 3000 engine, (no VW >parts) from Revmaster. >Air or water cooled with turbo as option starting at less than $10K. >110 hp and much simpler than the >Rotax or Subaru. Just see the article at this link. Contact Magazine >did a great piece on it and it had been supercharged to 400 hp just to >proof the mechanicals, in development testing before user flight >evaluations which are now under way. This one will influence the price >of the current 100 HP market and it's an all new engine from the >centerline out. Weight 205 lbs. >. >http://www.revmasteraviation.com/products/under_development/ > >Larry McFarland - 601HDS - Stratus Subaru - 730 lbs, Cruise 125 mph at >4700. >at www.macsmachine.com > >Dave & Doretta New wrote: > > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Doretta New" >>--> >> >> >>List >>Are there many with 601 HDS and corvair power? If so, Could you report >> >> >on empty weight and performance numbers. I have a 601 HDS taildragger >N928dn appox 160 hrs. Empty weight 725 lbs. three way GPS ground speed >average 129 mph @4550 rpm. Empty weight went up with larger radiator and >2 oil coolers. > > >>Been reading all the info about corvair power. Have not found any thing >> >> >about the empty weight and performance numbers. Been thinking about >converting to Corvair but would like some real world numbers from people >who have done it. Even Willam Wynne has not posted any performance >numbers. Only that his 601XL cruses about 130 mph. Have read in the >magazines that several people have converted there KR's from Subaru over >to corvair and saved weight. So if anybody is flying a HDS with Corvair >could you help me out. The Corvair intrest me, But converting over would >be a lot of work. > > >>Thank you >>Dave New >>601 HDS Taildragger >>N928DN >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:27 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: Zenith-list: hds.corvair --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Frankly, I would not trade my Jab 3300 for all the old worn out covair motors or remade over car motors you could fill the Astro Dome with. If you want dependable, strong and economical power at 178 pounds, spend the money and get a 3300. My plane is only limited by the prop and it never fails to please me when I hear it's rhythm. All the water cooled plumbing, and oil in the cylinder bend a rod, reduction gears and belts, only one distributor and one spark plug per jug concerns are lost on the 3300 and it really makes the perfect mill for the XL and maybe the HDS as well. I have flown both types with the 3300. I know this may fan the flames of passion for those that keep hoping for the best or at least good for less, but a lot of folks depend on what they read in this thing for knowledge and they should at least understand that the words DEPENDABLE POWER is the key to survival because there is no place to pull over and fix anything falling off some crappy mill they hope will hold together. I always hope everybody makes it on every flight, me included, but Experimental should really start with a small e instead of a BIG E when your life is on the line. Sorry if I have offended anybody's feelings, Best to all you guys for Christmas, Bill ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:49 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith-list: hds.corvair --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz At 05:13 PM 12/15/2005, you wrote: >The Rotax is a very simple engine, no more complex than a Corvair or Subaru >and probably on a par with Jabaru if you discount the 8 bolts (aprox.) to >remove the reduction unit. I don't get it. How can a water cooled engine with its circulation system, pump, hoses, radiator, thermostat, and who knows what else be as simple as a Jabiru air cooled engine that has non of those things on it? Paul XL wings do not archive --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:29 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: new to the list --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" If you are willing to spend a few weeks outside of St. Louis you can get your Sport Pilot license, I just did. http://www.stcharlesflyingsvs.com/lightsport.php They have the planes, instructors and examiner that you need. Nice folks, bumpy runway. Yes, you will still need a plane at home someday. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) Subject: RE: Zenith-List: new to the list --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> If you want a deal you can often find one already built for less than it will cost to build your own. Of course you won't be able to sign off on your own annual inspections but it will be proven and can represent quite a deal. Shame you don't want a low...My HDS is almost for sale..:) Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Ramler Subject: Zenith-List: new to the list --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ben Ramler Hello Zenith Builders and Flyers, My name's Ben Ramler. I live in Granite Falls, MN which is 140 miles due west of mpls. I'm thinking about getting my sport pilot lic. so I can go flying. Right now the only way for me to do that is to build an airplane first. Anyways my next question is this.. Who on the list is either building or flying a CH-701? What I'd like to know is what does airplane handle like, is it a forgiving aircraft? How was the construction of it? that kind of stuff. The reason I'm not looking at the 601 is because you can't see below and I'd like to see below me. thanks & Merry Christmas Ben Ramler --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:43 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zenith-list: hds.corvair --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" And direct vs. gear drive. The field I was just training at has two Evektor Sport Stars with Rotaxes on them. So their mechanic went off to Wisconsin (I think) and took the course. What he heard was that the engines would last forever but to keep an eye on the gear box. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith-list: hds.corvair --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz --> At 05:13 PM 12/15/2005, you wrote: >The Rotax is a very simple engine, no more complex than a Corvair or >Subaru and probably on a par with Jabaru if you discount the 8 bolts >(aprox.) to remove the reduction unit. I don't get it. How can a water cooled engine with its circulation system, pump, hoses, radiator, thermostat, and who knows what else be as simple as a Jabiru air cooled engine that has non of those things on it? Paul XL wings do not archive --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 09:00:07 PM PST US From: Steve Hulland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: and we wonder why we lose airports --> Zenith-List message posted by: Steve Hulland Mike, Let me know what airport you are talking about, who the speaker was, when, etc. I have some reasonable contacts with AOPA and others and will be glad to stir the pot in your favor. Just need specifics. Semper Fi, Steve H. 701, Aado, AZ On 12/15/05, PAULROD36@msn.com wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: > > Mike, you should contact AOPA and raise hell and demand that they tell you > what exactly is on their minds. It may be that the "AOPA rep" was a local > volunteer who wasn't sufficiently motivated and/or armed to do battle with > them. I'd certainly be surprised if AOPA just rolled over without some good > reason. > > Paul Rodriguez > 601XL/Corvair > DO NOT ARCHIVE > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mike > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 6:44 PM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: and we wonder why we lose airports > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike rsq2424@yahoo.com>> > > > Insult to us left-coasters notwithstanding (which was totally > uncalled for), I'd be cautious next time you give your hard earned money to > AOPA to save an airport. I recently attended a meeting at an airport > where my plane is being built, and thought the purpose was to fight against > a threatened airport closure. Boy was I surprised when it soon > became clear that the AOPA rep was siding with the City to close it! When > I asked why, his reponse was something akin to "you can't fight > city hall". How's that for pilot representation? > > Oh, and by the way, the airport will be closed as soon as everyone > is "relocated" and (coincidentally) the developer's plans are finished. > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > Jeff Small > > wrote:+++ Amen! Every time the AOPA asks for money for its defense of our > flying rights and to keep airports that are under attack from > residents because of noise complaints - I give. Hard to believe that > someone would purposely put "his" field in jeopardy. The field belongs to > all the pilots who hope to use it. > > A dive from 4000 with a pullout over the field at 500!!!...bet others at > the field love your pattern manners. Hopefully someone will report you to > the local FAA branch, and thankfully the original poster is on the Left > Coast. > > do not archive > > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:23 PM PST US From: "Paul Moore" Subject: Zenith-List: Fw: Zenith-list: hds.corvair --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Moore" So Bill, tell us how you REALLY feel......!!!! Glad to see you're committed - just don't let all that confidence in your equipment dull your senses or shorten your preflight checklist....! May you all get your wish for Christmas! Paul XL - O200 -----Original Message----- From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: Zenith-list: hds.corvair Frankly, I would not trade my Jab 3300 for all the old worn out covair motors or remade over car motors you could fill the Astro Dome with. If you want dependable, strong and economical power at 178 pounds, spend the money and get a 3300. My plane is only limited by the prop and it never fails to please me when I hear it's rhythm. All the water cooled plumbing, and oil in the cylinder bend a rod, reduction gears and belts, only one distributor and one spark plug per jug concerns are lost on the 3300 and it really makes the perfect mill for the XL and maybe the HDS as well. I have flown both types with the 3300. I know this may fan the flames of passion for those that keep hoping for the best or at least good for less, but a lot of folks depend on what they read in this thing for knowledge and they should at least understand that the words DEPENDABLE POWER is the key to survival because there is no place to pull over and fix anything falling off some crappy mill they hope will hold together. I always hope everybody makes it on every flight, me included, but Experimental should really start with a small e instead of a BIG E when your life is on the line. Sorry if I have offended anybody's feelings, Best to all you guys for Christmas, Bill Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:33 PM PST US From: Mike Subject: Re: Zenith-List: and we wonder why we lose airports --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike > Let me know what airport you are talking about, who the speaker was, > when, etc. I have some reasonable contacts with AOPA and others and > will be glad to stir the pot in your favor. Just need specifics. Unfortunately Steve, I think it's a done deal at this point. The FAA even caved in, which nobody thought they would do. I've been told that there was large political pressure put on this one (and the name Paul Allen was tossed around, although I can't prove it). The airport is Rialto, California (L67). Can't recall the AOPA guy's name, but he was definitely not in the camp that was fighting this closure. There was some mention that the city could use eminent domain if all else fails, which I suppose is true. There's more to the story, in that the City of Rialto, through mismanagement, claims that they do not have enough money to keep the airport in operation. That's total hogwash (I won't bore you why I feel that way), but they are now in the process of moving everyone to another airport. I have to disclose that I am a commercial real estate developer, and I'm usually on the other side of the fence on topics like this. However, I'm very much still against this scheme, and it pains me to see another small airport close for no good reason, other than greed. Mike do not archive