Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:28 AM - Re: Battery location (John anderson)
2. 02:18 AM - Re: Battery location (Paul Mulwitz)
3. 02:35 AM - Re: Battery location (Bryan Martin)
4. 04:46 AM - Re: Fuel system rework (Jean-Paul Roy)
5. 05:16 AM - Re: Short tail 801 with VGs (Tom Faulkner)
6. 05:18 AM - Re: Battery location (Dave Austin)
7. 07:16 AM - Re: Fuel system rework (Larry)
8. 07:25 AM - Flaming A-holes (Chris Lewis)
9. 07:35 AM - Re: Corvair crank (japhillipsga@aol.com)
10. 07:54 AM - Re: Fuel system rework (Steve Shuck)
11. 09:32 AM - EXPERIMENTAL crank email (Zed Smith)
12. 09:52 AM - Re: Battery location (John anderson)
13. 09:57 AM - Re: Battery location (John anderson)
14. 10:04 AM - Re: Battery location (John anderson)
15. 12:38 PM - Tarabocchia's flaps (601corvair)
16. 05:25 PM - zenith-list: plans for CH701 wanted (Peter Rochester)
17. 05:25 PM - zenith-list: plans for CH701 wanted (Peter Rochester)
18. 05:55 PM - Re: zenith-list: plans for CH701 wanted (Paul Mulwitz)
19. 06:03 PM - Re: zenith-list: plans for CH701 wanted (michael burkhardt)
20. 06:35 PM - Fw: [701builders] New file uploaded to 701builders (michael burkhardt)
21. 07:13 PM - Wing Issues (Michael Valentine)
22. 07:27 PM - Re: Flaming A-holes (ROBERT SCEPPA)
23. 07:51 PM - Why all the attacks?? (Chris sinfield)
24. 08:17 PM - Re: Wing Issues (Paul Mulwitz)
25. 08:37 PM - Re: Why all the attacks?? (Paul Mulwitz)
26. 08:43 PM - please move the corvair discution to another list. (Brett Hanley)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Battery location |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John anderson" <ande437@bellsouth.net>
Hi Paul,
Yes. Forward CG was done with full fuel and pilot (pilot full too, I just
had lunch). Aft CG was done with full fuel, passenger and pilot. The 601 has
generous range of CG as demonstrated in my query. I suppose I could put the
battery midway of the two locations but I am not sure that would be optimum.
Will check with Zac before I make a final decision.
Thanks,
John
Do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Battery location |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi John,
I don't know the best answer, but I might know the best
question. What will make the plane fly best?
The further forward you put the battery, the further forward the
final CG will be. This would tend to increase pitch stability as
well as reducing weight due to lack of battery cable required. If
this is within the design CG envelope then it might be the best choice.
On the other hand, a forward CG means elevator trim in the up
direction to counteract the tendency to drop the nose. This extra
nose-up trim may increase cruise flight drag and reduce cruise speed a bit.
Is it better to have good pitch stability or higher cruise
speed? That is where I get stuck.
Good luck,
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
At 08:36 PM 12/20/2005, you wrote:
>Hi Paul,
> Yes. Forward CG was done with full fuel and pilot (pilot full too, I just
>had lunch). Aft CG was done with full fuel, passenger and pilot. The 601 has
>generous range of CG as demonstrated in my query. I suppose I could put the
>battery midway of the two locations but I am not sure that would be optimum.
>Will check with Zac before I make a final decision.
>Thanks,
>John
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Battery location |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
Aft CG should be calculated with minimum fuel. Because the fuel tanks are
ahead of the CG, the CG will move farther aft as you burn off fuel. To do a
proper aft CG calculation you start with max gross weight with whatever fuel
load you would plan on taking off with then delete most of the fuel to find
the most aft CG condition you might have on landing.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
on 12/20/05 11:36 PM, John anderson at ande437@bellsouth.net wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John anderson" <ande437@bellsouth.net>
>
> Hi Paul,
> Yes. Forward CG was done with full fuel and pilot (pilot full too, I just
> had lunch). Aft CG was done with full fuel, passenger and pilot. The 601 has
> generous range of CG as demonstrated in my query. I suppose I could put the
> battery midway of the two locations but I am not sure that would be optimum.
> Will check with Zac before I make a final decision.
> Thanks,
> John
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel system rework |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
Very helpfull Larry. Where did you get your plastic tanks from?
Jean-Paul
Waiting for my tail kit
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel system rework
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
>
> BlankJust finished completely reworking my fuel delivery system. For
those who are interested, the new page is, www.skyhawg.com/fuelsystem.html.
>
>
> Larry Martin, www.skyhawg.com
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Short tail 801 with VGs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tom Faulkner" <tomtafcor@triton.net>
Rick: Contact Bill Wilcox in Valdez, www.keystone@gc1.net he has put VGs on
his 801 small stabilizer before installing the larger one. I thought he
would chip in by now, he usually watches the forum.
Tom Faulkner
N801TP
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Battery location |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@sprint.ca>
John,
Where is the CG with minimum fuel and just empty pilot?
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel system rework |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
Tanks were with the PegaStol Wing kit.
Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jean-Paul Roy" <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel system rework
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy"
> <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
>
> Very helpfull Larry. Where did you get your plastic tanks from?
>
> Jean-Paul
> Waiting for my tail kit
> do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel system rework
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
>>
>> BlankJust finished completely reworking my fuel delivery system. For
> those who are interested, the new page is,
> www.skyhawg.com/fuelsystem.html.
>>
>>
>> Larry Martin, www.skyhawg.com
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Chris Lewis <christopherlewis@earthlink.net>
I'm a long time reader of this list and have learned much. That said, what's with
all of the infantile behavior? The purpose of the list is to share information
and in general promote EXPERIMENTAL aviation.
There are good points and bad about every possible choice of airframe, powerplant,
construction method, color of paint, amount of pilot training, parachutes
for pilots, parachutes for planes, GA engines, car engines, etc.
Get over your bad selves and put your fingers in your pockets the next time you
feel like flaming someone. Everyone's entitled to their preference and no one
is trying to recruit you into the parachute club, the Corvair club, the Subaru
club or any other club.
Quit your whining, stop playing sandbox games and get back to talking constructively
about this hobby that we ALL love.
Happy Freaking Holidays! Even to you Grinches on this list...
Chris in Seattle
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair crank |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: japhillipsga@aol.com
Also, on the 0-200 correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Don Swords (Don's Dream
Machines in Griffin, Ga) make some modifications with another size crank and cam
on the 0-200 and greatly increase the torque and HP ? Seems like I read a story
about some Lady builder that used one of his engines in a plane she built/
rebuilt ? so modified and was greatly pleased.
-----Original Message-----
From: brucelee@mn.rr.com
Subject: Re: RE: Zenith-List: Corvair crank
--> Zenith-List message posted by: brucelee@mn.rr.com
I've promised to keep my posts noninflammatory whenever possible but,
am I missing somthing? Why don't more builders use the o-200
Continental? Yes, it costs somewhat more than a Corvair, but it's
usually cheaper than a Lycoming. It's a "real airplane engine", it has
redundant ignition, you can have a lightweight alternator without
worrying about a belt, and by changing the cam and adding tuned
exhaust, you can easily surpass 110hp. To me, it just seems like a
natural fit for the 601XL.
Bruce Lee
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Corvair crank
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain
> <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
> Its nice that you can throw in a statement like you did Craig
> about the Lycoming crankshafts to try to minimize the effects to
> the readers on the appearance of three Corvair engine crank
> failures. Comparing the three crank failures, and how many other
> Corvair engines I have heard of that seemed to have a very
> premature mode of failure, on roughly 400 Corvair engines flying
> really indicates a large percentage of failure. On the other
> hand, the few failures of Lycoming and Contenental engines out of
> probably close to a million flying and more than several million
> successful flying hours may put the Corvair in a bad light.
>
> Don
>
> >If you ask this on the Corvaircraft list
> >you will hear about all three cranks
> >breaks and why their engines were
> >different then the standard William
> >Wynne conversion.
> >
> >While the whole issue of the breaks
> > was being discussed on the e-mail list
> >someone posted *two* recalls from
> >Lycoming for broken cranks.
> >
> >-- Craig
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel system rework |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Shuck" <stshuck@comcast.net>
all right I take back what I took back..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel system rework
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
>
> Tanks were with the PegaStol Wing kit.
> Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jean-Paul Roy" <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel system rework
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy"
>> <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
>>
>> Very helpfull Larry. Where did you get your plastic tanks from?
>>
>> Jean-Paul
>> Waiting for my tail kit
>> do not archive
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
>> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel system rework
>>
>>
>>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
>>>
>>> BlankJust finished completely reworking my fuel delivery system. For
>> those who are interested, the new page is,
>> www.skyhawg.com/fuelsystem.html.
>>>
>>>
>>> Larry Martin, www.skyhawg.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | EXPERIMENTAL crank email |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
Its only Wednesday in this time zone, so, in advance, prematurely, ahead of time,
beforehand, etc, I'd like to wish all a Happy Holiday, Seasons Greetings, Merry
Christmas, several Hail Marys, or whatever turns your crank.
None of the above is "politically correct" in some quarters, but since I don't
subscribe to the Bleeding Heart Journal hopefully most on the List will accept
the greeting from one who is not amongst the "enlightened".
U.S. builders should turn to face Okla-Ho-Ho-Homa City, kneel and say, "Thank You"
for the opportunity to enjoy our hobby. Might want to include Oshkosh, too.
Its been a fun year......thanks to all for various tidbits that added to the experience.
Many of you have excellent web sites with good photos. These have been a real
help in some of those areas where I couldn't see the forest for all the trees.
As for "lively discussion"........I've been in some establishments that sell liquid
refreshments, where, if you didn't have a gun, they'd issue you one in case
your mouth overloaded your rear. This List hasn't ever gone that far but it
has occasionally been spirited. Keep up the good work.
Merry Christmas everybody!
Zed/701/R912/90+%/working on engine wiring, etc
do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Battery location |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John anderson" <ande437@bellsouth.net>
Hi Dave,
Interpolation says 13.1 with minim fuel and empty pilot. Aft CG is just to
close to limit with battery mounted in the tail. I am going with the
original position behind passenger. I think it will be good there even when
I add HDS wings. Thanks to all of you. You provoked a lot of thought that
helped me make what I think is the right decision. Merry Christmas.
CUL,
John
Alabama, Harpersville,the metropolis of.... We now have a traffic light!
Do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Battery location |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John anderson" <ande437@bellsouth.net>
Hi Paul,
Stability wins.
Thanks,
John
Do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Battery location |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John anderson" <ande437@bellsouth.net>
Hi Bryan,
Borderline aft CG and your post helped me decide on behind passenger
battery location. I have only the fuselage tank and emptying it makes an
impressive change in the CG.
Thanks,
John
Do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Tarabocchia's flaps |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: 601corvair <airvair601@yahoo.com>
Does anyone have the electronic version and photo's
of John Tarabocchia's flap design for the HD/HDS
series. They were on the CH601 site but were removed.
I've not been able to catch up with John recently and
was hoping some one would have a copy they could
e-mail me. Thanks phill hartig
Message 16
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| Subject: | zenith-list: plans for CH701 wanted |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Peter Rochester <peterdlr33@yahoo.ca>
I want to buy a complete set of Zenith CH701 plans. Must have unused serial number.
Thanks.
Peter Rochester
---------------------------------
Message 17
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| Subject: | zenith-list: plans for CH701 wanted |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Peter Rochester <peterdlr33@yahoo.ca>
I want to buy a complete set of Zenith CH701 plans. Must have unused serial number.
Thanks.
Peter Rochester
---------------------------------
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: zenith-list: plans for CH701 wanted |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Is there some reason you don't want to order them from ZAC?
http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/index1.html
>I want to buy a complete set of Zenith CH701 plans. Must have unused
>serial number. Thanks.
> Peter Rochester
>
-
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: zenith-list: plans for CH701 wanted |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: michael burkhardt <mjbavid@yahoo.com>
Peter, There is a set of Ch701 plans on
Barnstormers.com with Zenith newsletters these are not
cheap. Go to experimental, then to Zenith. Regards,
Mike
do not archive
--- Peter Rochester <peterdlr33@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Peter Rochester
> <peterdlr33@yahoo.ca>
>
> I want to buy a complete set of Zenith CH701 plans.
> Must have unused serial number. Thanks.
> Peter Rochester
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Fwd: [701builders] New file uploaded to 701builders |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: michael burkhardt <mjbavid@yahoo.com>
Note: forwarded message attached.
Authentication-Results: mta179.mail.mud.yahoo.com
from=yahoogroups.com; domainkeys=pass (ok)
by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Dec 2005 23:08:10 -0000
by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Dec 2005 23:08:10 -0000
From: 701builders@yahoogroups.com
List-Id: <701builders.yahoogroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:701builders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [701builders] New file uploaded to 701builders
--t11k2vAagzjVz8vXKAuFISoX51fmde4YMr7aQuG
Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the 701builders
group.
File : /SMITH701mount02.jpg
Uploaded by : gobbler_s <mgraves@usmo.com>
Description : Larry Smith's of Culver Prop, VW engine mount for the Zenith 701
You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/701builders/files/SMITH701mount02.jpg
To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
Regards,
gobbler_s <mgraves@usmo.com>
--t11k2vAagzjVz8vXKAuFISoX51fmde4YMr7aQuG
<tt>
Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the 701builders
group.
File : /SMITH701mount02.jpg
Uploaded by : gobbler_s mgraves@usmo.com
Description : Larry Smith's of Culver Prop, VW engine mount for the Zenith 701
You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/701builders/files/SMITH701mount02.jpg
To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
Regards,
gobbler_s mgraves@usmo.com
</tt>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<tt>Visit your group "701builders" on the web.
</tt>
<tt>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
701builders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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--t11k2vAagzjVz8vXKAuFISoX51fmde4YMr7aQuG--
Message 21
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michael Valentine <mgvalentine@gmail.com>
Happy Holidays listers -
Two Wing Rear Rib questions:
First: 6-W-00 shows Rear Rib #4 with the flanges pointing inboard
(opposite the rest of the ribs) with the three L angle stiffeners.
The drawing shows them all on the inside of the flanges (pointing
inboard) and it shows the wing locker cross-piece attaching to (or
near?) the third stiffener. 6-WLO-1 shows the cross piece attaching
to the middle stiffener and you can't really tell which side the
stiffeners are on. So the simple question is how do each of the three
stiffeners go on RR#4?
Second: 6-W-00 shows RR#5 as a left (for a right wing). This means
the flanges are also pointing inboard - into the wing locker. That
seems odd to me, though probably inconsequential. I spoke with Chris
at the factory and he implied it really didn't matter - at some point
it has been both ways as the drawings progressed. So, how did you do
it? Do you have one side of the baggage locker with the flanges
pointing away from the locker and one pointing into the locker? Are
there any reasons that I may see later down the line that would
influence me one way or the other?
Thanks,
Michael Valentine
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Flaming A-holes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep@yahoo.com>
> Dittos to you Chris
--- Chris Lewis <christopherlewis@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Chris Lewis
> <christopherlewis@earthlink.net>
>
> I'm a long time reader of this list and have learned
> much. That said, what's with all of the infantile
> behavior? The purpose of the list is to share
> information and in general promote EXPERIMENTAL
> aviation.
>
> There are good points and bad about every possible
> choice of airframe, powerplant, construction method,
> color of paint, amount of pilot training, parachutes
> for pilots, parachutes for planes, GA engines, car
> engines, etc.
>
> Get over your bad selves and put your fingers in
> your pockets the next time you feel like flaming
> someone. Everyone's entitled to their preference and
> no one is trying to recruit you into the parachute
> club, the Corvair club, the Subaru club or any other
> club.
>
> Quit your whining, stop playing sandbox games and
> get back to talking constructively about this hobby
> that we ALL love.
>
> Happy Freaking Holidays! Even to you Grinches on
> this list...
>
> Chris in Seattle
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Why all the attacks?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Chris sinfield <chris_sinfield@yahoo.com>
People, People, People..
Why all this attacking each other.. I want to build a zenith XL and join a group
of people who have similar minded ideas to help me complete and fly this aircraft.
I have been looking at a few different types and settled on the XL.
But I am not sure that this is an email list that I want to be a part of? people
should be free to express their views on engines and flying ect ect, as they
are just that.. their views , without somone jumping down their throat.. Lets
help each other out and remeber the goal of this list is to help people complete
and fly Zenith Aircraft through out the world..
Please convince me that I should stay, to me even Off topic stuff is OK but there
is just no need to attack each other, I can go to the sand pit for that..
Chris..
601XL
Down Under..
Message 24
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Michael,
I am currently working on the baggage locker on my right wing, so I
actually know the answers to your questions.
If you are planning on building wing lockers (either now or in the
future) I suggest you build your wing according to 6-W-0 rather than
6-W-00. If you build the wing with RR-4 facing inward and RR-5
facing outward (as shown on 6-W-0) then the rear panel for the wing
locker will need to be 498 mm in length as supplied when you order
the option from ZAC. If you are foolish like me and build it
according to 6-W-00 then the rear panel needs to be 518 mm in length.
When I built the stiffeners and panel support for RR-4 I put the
three stiffeners in the inboard side (same direction as the flanges)
and an additional "L" bracket on the outboard side for the baggage
locker rear panel. I found it easiest if I used the same rivets and
therefore the same location for the inboard and outboard "L" brackets.
Have fun,
Paul
XL wings
>Two Wing Rear Rib questions:
>
>First: 6-W-00 shows Rear Rib #4 with the flanges pointing inboard
>(opposite the rest of the ribs) with the three L angle stiffeners.
>The drawing shows them all on the inside of the flanges (pointing
>inboard) and it shows the wing locker cross-piece attaching to (or
>near?) the third stiffener. 6-WLO-1 shows the cross piece attaching
>to the middle stiffener and you can't really tell which side the
>stiffeners are on. So the simple question is how do each of the three
>stiffeners go on RR#4?
>
>Second: 6-W-00 shows RR#5 as a left (for a right wing). This means
>the flanges are also pointing inboard - into the wing locker. That
>seems odd to me, though probably inconsequential. I spoke with Chris
>at the factory and he implied it really didn't matter - at some point
>it has been both ways as the drawings progressed. So, how did you do
>it? Do you have one side of the baggage locker with the flanges
>pointing away from the locker and one pointing into the locker? Are
>there any reasons that I may see later down the line that would
>influence me one way or the other?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Michael Valentine
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Why all the attacks?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Chris,
If you know of another builder's list that has anywhere near the
activity of this one, please let me know.
I agree with you that personal attacks should not be necessary. On
the other hand, some people just scream out to be whacked.
I do agree that this should be a free speech forum and that off topic
stuff is OK if held to a reasonable amount. Some of the members of
this list seem to take offense at any comment that is not directly
related to setting rivets. Oh well, there is room for everybody in
this world . . .
Welcome aboard,
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
At 07:50 PM 12/21/2005, you wrote:
>People, People, People..
> Why all this attacking each other.. I want to build a zenith XL
> and join a group of people who have similar minded ideas to help me
> complete and fly this aircraft. I have been looking at a few
> different types and settled on the XL. But I am not sure that
> this is an email list that I want to be a part of?
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 26
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| Subject: | please move the corvair discution to another list. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brett Hanley <bretttdc@yahoo.com>
All the discussion of the Corvair engines is great but
it belongs on another list. It is off topic here.
Brett
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