Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:49 AM - Re: Grandson's First Flight (Al Young)
2. 05:56 AM - 701 extruded longerons (Keith Ashcraft)
3. 07:27 AM - Re: Grandson's First Flight (jnbolding1)
4. 07:32 AM - Re: T'was The Night Before Christmas - Sports Planes Style (bill naumuk)
5. 08:00 AM - Re: Grandson's First Flight (Kelly Meiste)
6. 08:19 AM - Re: Re: Original Question (bill naumuk)
7. 08:25 AM - Re: Grandson's First Flight (bill naumuk)
8. 09:20 AM - Re: Re: Original Question (Paul Mulwitz)
9. 09:37 AM - Re: Grandson's First Flight (Todd Osborne)
10. 09:48 AM - Re: 701 extruded longerons (ROBERT SCEPPA)
11. 10:06 AM - Re: Re: Original Question (Randy Stout)
12. 10:29 AM - Re: 701 extruded longerons (Gary Gower)
13. 11:28 AM - Re: Grandson's First Flight (Craig Payne)
14. 11:54 AM - Re: Tarabocchia's flaps (Lance Gingell)
15. 12:04 PM - Re: Re: Original Question (bill naumuk)
16. 12:12 PM - Re: Re: Original Question (bill naumuk)
17. 02:26 PM - Re: 701 extruded longerons (jnbolding1)
18. 03:34 PM - Re: Re: Re: Original Question ()
19. 04:08 PM - Re: 701 extruded longerons (MaresAlf2@aol.com)
20. 04:51 PM - Flying 601HDS with Corvair engine (Gpjann@aol.com)
21. 05:09 PM - Re: Re: Re: Original Question (bill naumuk)
22. 05:15 PM - Re: Re: Original Question (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
23. 05:40 PM - Re: Re: Original Question (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
24. 08:51 PM - Re: Grandson's First Flight (Brandon Tucker)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Grandson's First Flight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" <armyret@one-eleven.net>
Bill- You have done what I have dreamed of doing for 4 years. Congrats to
you both. What a Christmas present ! You've made this old heart flutter
and skip a beat. Kind regards and Merry Christmas to you and yours.
Al Young
Re-building XL
Message 2
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| Subject: | 701 extruded longerons |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Ashcraft <keith.ashcraft@itt.com>
Hello all,
For those of you that have used extruded angle for 7F3-1 (longerons) did
you use one piece (3500mm+) or splice it per plans?
Thanks,
Keith
N 38.9947
W 105.1305
Alt. 9,100'
************************************
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any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author
and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Industries, Inc. The recipient should
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Grandson's First Flight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
>Bill- You have done what I have dreamed of doing for 4 years. Congrats to
>you both. What a Christmas present ! You've made this old heart flutter
>and skip a beat. Kind regards and Merry Christmas to you and yours.
What a NEAT feeling it is!! took my son on his first airplane ride 30 yrs ago,
he sitting on my lap in my recently completed RV3, have now taken both HIS sons
on their first ride (and lots of others since) in our restored Champ. Can't
wait to do it in the 701. It's one of the reasons we put ourselves thru the ordeal/joy
of building these dang things. MERRY CHRISTMAS Everybody. John
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: T'was The Night Before Christmas - Sports Planes Style |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "bill naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jean-Paul Roy" <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: T'was The Night Before Christmas - Sports Planes
Style
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy"
<jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
>
> Very, very good, thank you Jim
> Merry Xmas too
>
> Jean-Paul
> do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Pellien" <jim@pellien.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: T'was The Night Before Christmas - Sports Planes
Style
I've met Tom P., and while he might be "little" (you probably don't even
need to include him in your weight+balance calculations if he flies with
you), he's far from "old". Of course, if you can't trust anyone over 30,
you'll have to disregard this response.
Merry Christmas, all! (Or whatever is politically correct).
Bill
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Grandson's First Flight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kelly Meiste" <kellymeiste@jcwifi.com>
Yes, for all you Dads and Grandpas out
> there that are tired of building, running a bit short on finances or just
> frustrated at the effort required or the slow pace of building and may be
> thinking
> of giving up I offer this as encouragement to keep working. It will be
> worth
> it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yup, been there done that!
601 kit --- $15,000
Engine --- $7,000
Tools & other options --- $5,000
Sons first flight --- PRICELESS!
Merry Christmas to all,
Kelly Meiste
do not achieve
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Original Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "bill naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brandon Tucker" <btucke73@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Original Question
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
>
All-
Thanks for all the networking help. Hopefully someone will come forward
with some numbers.
Finally, another Zenith builder showed up within 45 minutes of me (He's
waiting on his XL kit). From what I understand, he's well into a Corvair
rebuild. Did it backwards from just about all of the rest of us- picked the
airframe that might best work with his powerplant. We're going to visit each
other's shops in the next few days.
Frankly, 110smph for an HDS is disappointing; let's see what the final
result is after tweaking. What I'm shooting for is C-172 cruise performance
at the best price. A Jab 3300 will do it, for $17K, but if I can come close
for $7K with the Corvair.........
As far as TBO is concerned, those worried about reaching 1500hrs must be
retired with nothing else to do but fly, and live in an area without ice,
snow, and rain. I'm lucky to get in 50hrs a year flying. At that rate, I'll
be one of the world's oldest pilots by the time I run out an engine.
>
Bill
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Grandson's First Flight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "bill naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Grandson's First Flight
All-
My grandson just turned 1. Hopefully, I'll be able to give him a ride
before he's off to college!
Merry Christmas.
Bill
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Original Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Bill,
A Jabiru 3300 in an XL far exceeds C-172 performance. It gets 120
knot cruise while the C-172 is lucky to get 100. It also climbs
around twice as quickly. (If my memory serves me correctly, even
with two people a 172 barely climbs at 600 fpm and to get 120 IAS
requires cruise power and descent on a typical glide slope while
shooting an ILS approach.)
It is not surprising the Corvair can't compete with this performance,
it weighs considerably more and generates less horsepower.
I understand the desire to save money on an engine, but it seems
unreasonable to expect premium performance for discount prices. When
you consider the airframe and avionics costs and place some value on
the years of labor we put into our planes, the additional cost for a
higher performance engine doesn't seem quite as much.
That is not to say it is a bad choice to save money and get airborne
with a Corvair or other economy engine. We have many choices to make
and all of them lead to a wonderful result.
Paul
XL wings
>Frankly, 110smph for an HDS is disappointing; let's see what the final
>result is after tweaking. What I'm shooting for is C-172 cruise performance
>at the best price. A Jab 3300 will do it, for $17K, but if I can come close
>for $7K with the Corvair
-
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Grandson's First Flight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Todd Osborne <todd@toddtown.com>
I did the reverse of this in 1989, took my grandpa Bill for his first
ride ever in any plane, a rented 172. I was 19 or 20, he was in his
mid-60's. He loved it and we had a blast cruising through the North
Carolina spring skies. All I have remaining of that day is some
photographs my mom took. He died in 1997 but I will always cherish that
moment, as I know he did as well. He had a constant smile on his face,
but as we neared the airport to land he said "ok, this is fun, but I've
had enough of this sh*t" :-) Aviation certainly does spawn some great
and lasting memories. Have a great grandpa Bill certainly helped this
kid along in life! Merry Christmas to all.
Todd Osborne
Internet E-Mail: todd@toddtown.com
Web Site: www.toddtown.com
MSN (Windows) Messenger: todd@toddtown.com
AOL Instant Messenger: toddosborn@aol.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 701 extruded longerons |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep@yahoo.com>
> Keith, I plan on using a full length of .063
instead of
> splicing .040. ZAC says its ok long as you use the
thicker
> material. Rule of thumb always go the heavier
material not the
> lesser thickness. Hope that helps you....RS
--- Keith Ashcraft <keith.ashcraft@itt.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Ashcraft
> <keith.ashcraft@itt.com>
>
> Hello all,
> For those of you that have used extruded angle for
> 7F3-1 (longerons) did
> you use one piece (3500mm+) or splice it per plans?
> Thanks,
> Keith
> N 38.9947
> W 105.1305
> Alt. 9,100'
> ************************************
> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are
> proprietary and intended solely for the use of the
> individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If
> you have received this e-mail in error please notify
> the sender. Please note that any views or opinions
> presented in this e-mail are solely those of the
> author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT
> Industries, Inc. The recipient should check this
> e-mail and any attachments for the presence of
> viruses. ITT Industries accepts no liability for any
> damage caused by any virus transmitted by this
> e-mail.
> ************************************
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Original Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" <n282rs@earthlink.net>
I would hope that an HDS would get better than that for speed. My HD (with
Corvair) gets 122 mph at full throttle and 107 mph at cruise. I would
assume that if the factory can get a 15 mph difference between models, that
the HDS would get 137 mph full throttle and 122 mph cruise. Climb on a 60
degree day with a gross weight less than 1200 lbs, it will climb 1000-1200
fpm. I dont think the HDS is going to touch the same climb performance, but
we had that discussion a couple of weeks ago.
Randy Stout
n282rs"at"earthlink.net
www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brandon Tucker" <btucke73@yahoo.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Original Question
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
> >
> Frankly, 110smph for an HDS is disappointing; let's see what the final
> result is after tweaking. What I'm shooting for is C-172 cruise
performance
> at the best price. A Jab 3300 will do it, for $17K, but if I can come
close
> for $7K with the Corvair.........
> Bill
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 701 extruded longerons |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Hello Keith,
They HAVE to be spliced, look closely to the plans and you will notice that
the longerons are not straight, they make a very shallow arch in the middle of
the rear fusselage for structure porpose.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
701 912S
Keith Ashcraft <keith.ashcraft@itt.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Ashcraft
Hello all,
For those of you that have used extruded angle for 7F3-1 (longerons) did
you use one piece (3500mm+) or splice it per plans?
Thanks,
Keith
N 38.9947
W 105.1305
Alt. 9,100'
************************************
---------------------------------
Message 13
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| Subject: | Grandson's First Flight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
To heck with the kids, I want to take my 79 year old father flying. Makes it
more urgent to finish the plane.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Al Young
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Grandson's First Flight
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" <armyret@one-eleven.net>
Bill- You have done what I have dreamed of doing for 4 years. Congrats to
you both. What a Christmas present ! You've made this old heart flutter
and skip a beat. Kind regards and Merry Christmas to you and yours.
Al Young
Re-building XL
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Tarabocchia's flaps |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
I agree with Joe,
I barely use my flaps. The XL is great without them. Gusty winds can
really get you with flaps out in the XL.
As Joe says, "An XL is light..... Ask my passengers who have been in
turbulence." (believe it!).
If my XL hadn't had flaps, I could have built 50hrs quicker and spent
those hours flying ;-)!
..lance
http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
XL/3300/Flying
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Original Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "bill naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
Paul-
I'm spoiled. I sold my share in a 180hp Superhawk conversion to finance
my Zenith. I agree with you on a stock 150hp Hawk, many a time I wondered if
I'd ever get off the ground.
Merry Christmas!
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Original Question
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
<p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
> -
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Original Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "bill naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Stout" <n282rs@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Original Question
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" <n282rs@earthlink.net>
>
> I would hope that an HDS would get better than that for speed. My HD (with
> Corvair) gets 122 mph at full throttle and 107 mph at cruise. I would
> assume that if the factory can get a 15 mph difference between models,
that
> the HDS would get 137 mph full throttle and 122 mph cruise. Climb on a 60
> degree day with a gross weight less than 1200 lbs, it will climb 1000-1200
> fpm. I dont think the HDS is going to touch the same climb performance,
but
> we had that discussion a couple of weeks ago.
>
Randy-
Those numbers are a little more encouraging. The one good thing about an
HDS is, if I need the climb performance, I'm allowed to build a set of HD
wings. Compared to the trauma of building the tapered HDS wings, a set of HD
wings should be a walk in the park.
Thanks for your input, and Merry Christmas.
Bill
do not
archive
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: 701 extruded longerons |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
> They HAVE to be spliced, look closely to the plans and you will notice that
the longerons are not straight, they make a very shallow arch in the middle
of the rear fusselage for structure porpose.
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower.
> 701 912S
Actually they don't, the arch is shallow enough that if you're careful you can
work the longeron up the skins ,clecoing every hole and it comes out very nice
thank you. At least that's the way it worked on the 040 , don't know if you could
do it on o63 extrusion however without a little shrinking.
John
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Original Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <robhans777@cox.net>
I don't know where you get your information from, but the Cessna 172 SP that I
fly cruises in calm wind at 118 knots, and climbs easily with 450 lbs. of pilot
and passenger on board at 1,000 feet per minute.
Also, my friends Corvair engine weighed in at 200. That doesn't sound like it's
considerably more than a Jabiru 3300.
>
> From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
> Date: 2005/12/23 Fri PM 12:20:00 EST
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Original Question
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
> Bill,
>
> A Jabiru 3300 in an XL far exceeds C-172 performance. It gets 120
> knot cruise while the C-172 is lucky to get 100. It also climbs
> around twice as quickly. (If my memory serves me correctly, even
> with two people a 172 barely climbs at 600 fpm and to get 120 IAS
> requires cruise power and descent on a typical glide slope while
> shooting an ILS approach.)
>
> It is not surprising the Corvair can't compete with this performance,
> it weighs considerably more and generates less horsepower.
>
> I understand the desire to save money on an engine, but it seems
> unreasonable to expect premium performance for discount prices. When
> you consider the airframe and avionics costs and place some value on
> the years of labor we put into our planes, the additional cost for a
> higher performance engine doesn't seem quite as much.
>
> That is not to say it is a bad choice to save money and get airborne
> with a Corvair or other economy engine. We have many choices to make
> and all of them lead to a wonderful result.
>
> Paul
> XL wings
>
>
> >Frankly, 110smph for an HDS is disappointing; let's see what the final
> >result is after tweaking. What I'm shooting for is C-172 cruise performance
> >at the best price. A Jab 3300 will do it, for $17K, but if I can come close
> >for $7K with the Corvair
>
> -
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: 701 extruded longerons |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: MaresAlf2@aol.com
Hi Keith
Found your address as woodland park !! I hail from knob hill Colo
Spgs We plan to be in woodland park for newyears Just before the
fronts and ground bliz's I went to Penn. to get a CH701 kit that 3 guys
had worked on and pooped out .. tis in woodland your back yard !!!
Shoot a line and fill me in on your progress on 701 ?? I wi
nter in Venice Calif but will be in Colo. as soon as I get a new knee
joint in Jan.
Alf Peterson _maresalf2@aol.com_ (mailto:maresalf2@aol.com)
Message 20
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| Subject: | Flying 601HDS with Corvair engine |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gpjann@aol.com
I'm currently flying off Phase 1 hours in my Zodiac 601 HDS, Corvair
powered, tri-gear, 702 lbs, plans built airplane.
Am open to answering questions, discussing project, etc.
Greg Jannakos
Grayson, Ga.
_gpjann@aol.com_ (mailto:gpjann@aol.com)
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Original Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "bill naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: <robhans777@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Original Question
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <robhans777@cox.net>
>
> I don't know where you get your information from, but the Cessna 172 SP
that I fly cruises in calm wind at 118 knots, and climbs easily with 450
lbs. of pilot and passenger on board at 1,000 feet per minute.
>
> Also, my friends Corvair engine weighed in at 200. That doesn't sound
like it's considerably more than a Jabiru 3300.
> >
> > From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
> > Date: 2005/12/23 Fri PM 12:20:00 EST
> > To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Original Question
> >
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
<p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
> >
Guys-
C'mon, it's Christmas. The last thing I wanted to do was stir the muck.
When you're talking about a C-172, one with an O-360 is a totally different
animal than one with an O-320.
Our O-320 swallowed a valve (For all of you certificated engine
reliability buffs out there) while one of my partners was shooting ILSs at
an 8000' strip. He'd just taken off, heard a "Clunk", powered back, and
landed straight ahead. No harm, no foul. Good job, Bill K, Sr.
No one trusted the old engine any more. We had it zero timed and sold it
in 2 seconds to a guy building an RV. No funny business- we made a point of
emphasizing it's maintenance history. Another $23K and we had a Great Planes
"Superhawk" conversion kit.
We installed the conversion ourselves, under the eye of our regular A+P.
What I remember was:
1. Being disappointed with the cruise performance. We gained less than
10 knots.
2. Being thrilled with the climb performance. I was off and running in
1/3 the distance as with an O-320. 1000+fpm easy.
3. Being appalled with the increase in hourly rate. We went from $56/hr
wet to $84/hr wet per hour. Add to this the
increase in monthly dues from $15 to $20 and I was paying way more
than I could rent for.
I sold my share in the Superhawk, and for better or worse, now I'm part
of the Zenith Builder's Community. I just hope I can finish my HDS before I
can't even qualify for a driver's license!
I hope all listers make a New Year's resolution to make it a point to
use the left side of their brains when composing their postings.
Best wishes- over and out.
Bill
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Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Original Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Wonder if you can put XL wings on an HD ? Would make it over 30 feet wide and
that thinner wing would sure be faster. I have no clue how the HD/HDS wings
attach.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Original Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
My XL weighs almost 800 dry, With just me and full tanks my Jab powered XL
will climb at 100 mph at 1100 fpm. This weekend with me (217) and my buddy (230)
and near full tanks she climbed at 93 mph at 1000 fpm. Even loaded with all
our fat we did 140 @ 2750rpm. Jab power ! Oh, by the way, the Jab 3300 weighs
178 pounds complete with eveything, including muffler.
Message 24
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| Subject: | RE: Grandson's First Flight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
Gents,
I just had to share this. I took my daughter up
for her first flight a few weeks ago in a Varga
Kachina (two seat tandem). She is three, and I put
her on 6" of padding so that she could see over the
canopy rail, and I could get her in the plane's video
system. I Gave her the controls, and she was banking
left and right for a little bit. When I looked over
my shoulder, both of her hands were resting on the
canopy rails, and she was flying the aircraft with the
stick between her feet!!! I laughed my ass off! My
little co-pilot just can't wait for me to get "our"
plane flying... Gotta' love them.
Merry Christmas,
Brandon
Oceanside, Ca.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
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