Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:18 AM - Re: Air hose size (William Jeffries)
2. 02:35 AM - Re: Primer (William Jeffries)
3. 09:05 AM - Re: Primer (kevinbonds)
4. 09:46 AM - Re: Long Range Fuel Tanks (Lance Gingell)
5. 10:30 AM - Re: Primer (bill naumuk)
6. 10:57 AM - Re: Solution for HDS and HD Tire pressure problem (Larry McFarland)
7. 11:23 AM - Uni bits (neitzel)
8. 11:34 AM - AW: Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of Gravity (Martin Pohl)
9. 12:23 PM - Re: Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of Gravity (Bruce Lee)
10. 02:15 PM - Re: Uni bits (BrownTool@aol.com)
11. 03:15 PM - Re: Uni bits (Paul Mulwitz)
12. 05:30 PM - Re: Long Range Fuel Tanks (Robin Bellach)
13. 05:46 PM - curious about builders' experiences (Don Herman)
14. 05:47 PM - Re: Uni bits (Robin Bellach)
15. 05:59 PM - Re: curious about builders' experiences (Crvsecretary@aol.com)
16. 06:07 PM - Re: Long Range Fuel Tanks (Jack Russell)
17. 07:18 PM - Re: curious about builders' experiences (ROBERT SCEPPA)
18. 07:19 PM - Tach RPM error (NYTerminat@aol.com)
19. 07:32 PM - DAR inspection (NYTerminat@aol.com)
20. 08:12 PM - Re: DAR inspection (cgalley)
21. 08:22 PM - Re: DAR inspection (NYTerminat@aol.com)
22. 08:33 PM - Re: Tach RPM error (Mike Fothergill)
23. 08:39 PM - Re: Tach RPM error (NYTerminat@aol.com)
24. 08:57 PM - Re: Tach RPM error (cgalley)
25. 08:59 PM - Re: curious about builders' experiences (Matt & Jo)
26. 09:00 PM - Re: Tach RPM error (NYTerminat@aol.com)
27. 09:22 PM - Re: Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of Gravity (kevinbonds)
28. 11:52 PM - Re: Tach RPM error (Craig Moore)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Air hose size |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: William Jeffries <vair601@yahoo.com>
Mike,
The problem you are have is call line loss. You have a 1/4 in hose that is
100' long which creates a 100' long restriction. The original problem was a
stiff, hard to manage hose. This is because the material is pvc and I recommend
going with a 3/8 rubber hose, it remains flexable in the cold. They do weigh
more when handling an airtool for repetitive activity so then you attach
a light weight 1/4" extension hose, maybe 10-12' long to that. This will give
you the reduced weight and only a 10 ' restriction and greater air flow.
Hope this makes sense and helps.
Bill Jeffries
601 Dreaming, going down for a test flight in September.
---------------------------------
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: William Jeffries <vair601@yahoo.com>
Dave,
The primer that Diamond-Vogel is the right stuff.
I've read the posts bragging all the different primers, epoxies, activator
products, etc. So I thought that I would give a quick explaination of how and
why Zinc Chromate primers are probably the best for aircraft. Most primers
seal the material that they are bonded to there by offering protection the the
base metal. Self etching products are just describing a method of improving
the bond to the base material. Zinc Chromate offers protection by sealing
the metal as the others do however they offer one other means of protection.
Zinc Chromate has free electrons at a molecular level that are offered up to
the base metal to help stablize the material and prevent corrosion. Zinc Chromate
has been an industry standard far longer than I've been alive, it's proven
and trusted.
Hope this helps, Bill Jeffries.
---------------------------------
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Bill
What are your thoughts on Zinc Oxide as a replacement for Chromate?
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Jeffries
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer
--> Zenith-List message posted by: William Jeffries <vair601@yahoo.com>
Dave,
The primer that Diamond-Vogel is the right stuff.
I've read the posts bragging all the different primers, epoxies,
activator products, etc. So I thought that I would give a quick
explaination of how and why Zinc Chromate primers are probably the best for
aircraft. Most primers seal the material that they are bonded to there by
offering protection the the base metal. Self etching products are just
describing a method of improving the bond to the base material. Zinc
Chromate offers protection by sealing the metal as the others do however
they offer one other means of protection. Zinc Chromate has free electrons
at a molecular level that are offered up to the base metal to help stablize
the material and prevent corrosion. Zinc Chromate has been an industry
standard far longer than I've been alive, it's proven and trusted.
Hope this helps, Bill Jeffries.
---------------------------------
Message 4
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| Subject: | Long Range Fuel Tanks |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
Doug,
I have a flying XL with 2 x 12 Gal wing tanks. Flying solo with full
tanks, my CG is about as far forward as I would like it, so the aux
tanks may not have worked that well for me. I was thinking of adding a
wing locker tank. This would be much more flexible for my CG situation
(not so great for Lycoming folks, or 'bigger' pilots though!).
Also, my fuel vents dribble fuel when the tanks are fairly full and I'm
taxiing. If I'm not careful I can slosh out a gallon or so overboard
through the vent just on the ground! Makes 12 gal a bit optimistic when
the first couple never get to the engine!
(Yes, they are cut off at 45 degrees facing forward for pressure in
flight - but that doesn't help on the ground).
..lance
http://lanceginge.com/plane.asp
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Doug Sire" <dsire@imt.net>
My 601XL kit should ship in February, so I've been considering upgrading
to the long range fuel tank option before then. The only real reason to
do that would be to provide more flexibility in managing weight and
balance, since I don't have the long range bladder option. I'll be using
a J3300, I'm 200lbs and will be flying solo most of the time. I have the
wing locker option so can stow things there if need be. Any thoughts?
Message 5
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "bill naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
Kevin-
Don't know which Bill you're addressing this to, but Oxide is what I
went with, to avoid having to use a heavy duty respirator.
About $1/can more than Chromate, adheres to anything. Only thing that
will get it off is lacquer thinner. Tempo claims equivalent protection to
Chromate.
Translucent until you put on 3 coats. I still use a disposable mask. I'm
not in a salt air or acid rain environment, so it'll probably do fine.
Bought 10 cans from ACS, have used 4 so far on outboard wings, stab, elev,
rudder, and ailerons.
Bill in
Pa.
----- Original Message -----
From: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Primer
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
>
> Bill
> What are your thoughts on Zinc Oxide as a replacement for Chromate?
>
> Kevin Bonds
>
> Nashville TN
>
> 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
>
> Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
>
>
> do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
> Jeffries
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Jeffries <vair601@yahoo.com>
>
> Dave,
> The primer that Diamond-Vogel is the right stuff.
> I've read the posts bragging all the different primers, epoxies,
> activator products, etc. So I thought that I would give a quick
> explaination of how and why Zinc Chromate primers are probably the best
for
> aircraft. Most primers seal the material that they are bonded to there
by
> offering protection the the base metal. Self etching products are just
> describing a method of improving the bond to the base material. Zinc
> Chromate offers protection by sealing the metal as the others do however
> they offer one other means of protection. Zinc Chromate has free
electrons
> at a molecular level that are offered up to the base metal to help
stablize
> the material and prevent corrosion. Zinc Chromate has been an industry
> standard far longer than I've been alive, it's proven and trusted.
>
> Hope this helps, Bill Jeffries.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Solution for HDS and HD Tire pressure problem |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Hi guys,
I purchased another tube from the Yamaha cycle shop sized as a 3.5 x 8.0
which is named
KENDA. The rubber seemed harder, but I've studied the problem a bit
since I last posted
and the Cheng Shin tubes might be more delicate but not as much the
problem. I'll keep them as spares.
I took the Matco wheel and Michelin S-83 tire apart to check what
really causes a very small crack that occurs
beneath the stem, on top of the vulcanized rubber washer that is at the
base of the stem. I found that the
SLOT the stem goes thru was not edge-radiused and was making
sharp-depression edge-marks in the rubber
where the vulcanized rubber is seated in the slot. I used a micro file
to put a .005 radius broken edge on the slot.
The center recess-groove for releasing the tire on disassembly creates a
problem for the inflated tube
because the rubber has to stretch further under air pressure. This
causes a tension going to the valve stem
which would be inconsequential, but if you pull up on the stem, you can
cause it to crack. Not so
much as to immediately start a leak, but with mishandling or reinflating
and pushing on the stem, etc,
you will develop a small seeping crack eventually as I did.
I center-cut a patch and put it on a new tube, but it was too bulky.
Then I tried thin metal and plastic washers
to protect the shoulder near the stem, but ultimately found that the
best item was a three eighths ID rubber
fender-washer one and a half inches OD and is sixty thousandths thick
from Farm & Fleet.
It fits the stem snugly and is thick enough to prevent the observed
edge-damage. It flexes into the recess-groove
and spaces the stem down just enough to eliminate the initial peripheral
stretch near the stem. After inflation,
the stem was a bit more rigid, but I'm still contemplating drilling a
small hole in the wheel web beneath the stem and
safety-wiring it so that it cannot flex or be moved. I put the rubber
washer on a pencil and spun it against the sanding
disk to break the sharp outside edges of the rubber and prevent wear
problems there. Might not have been necessary.
My Pacific Coast Motorcycle has a stem-holder that makes the stems
immovable for all of the same reasons
and there were several examples of washers that are used in cars to
protect the vulcanized shoulder for larger tires.
I think the rubber washer is the best for this problem, so I'm going to
disassemble the other two wheels, tubes and tires
and check condition, file to break the sharp edges and add a rubber
washer at each there too.
I really do like the S-83 Michelin and think the inner tube problem is
completely resolvable.
I'll post pictures later with links to improve this descripton at some
early date.
Hope this helps,
Larry McFarland - 601HDS with one tube down and two to go.
Larry Portouw wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Portouw" <Larry@portouw.com>
>Larry,
> Be sure to spread a little bit of talc around the inside of the tire
>before assembly. Then after assembly, air it up to max, and then deflate
>completely, and re-air it to operating pressure.
> When I first changed the tires on my tri-pacer, I found two of the tubes
>actually had wrinkles and creases in them from being folded inside the
>tire-- a blow out waiting to happen.
>
>Larry Portouw
>601XL Kit
>Atlanta
>---------------------------------
>
>Hi guys,
> found a small crack around one quarter the
> perimeter and
> directly next to the valve stem. The 3.5 x 8.0 tube would have to be
> replaced. <SNIP>
>
> Have a good one,
>
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "neitzel" <n963wb@frontiernet.net>
Greetings all
Sometime ago there was a discussion on the benefits of having a set of step drills.
I couldn't agree more as they have been invaluable in my construction process.
There is a company in the mid west called Northern Tool and Equipment
(formerly Northern Hydraulics) that currently has a three piece set on sale for
$25.00. Set consists of a 3/16 to 1/2, a 1/8 to 1/2 and a 1/4 to 3/4. These
drills appear to US made by a company called GRIP (Grand Rapids Industrial
Products). Northern Tool has a 24/7 order line 1-800-533-5545.
Also there was a discussion on "oil canning". Is that a real problem in a 701
and is there a fix that does not carry a severe weight penalty?
Hope everyone has a great New building year!
Dick Neitzel
Sayner, WI
701 Jabiru 2200
N962WB reserved
Message 8
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| Subject: | Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of Gravity |
Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Martin Pohl" <mpohl@pohltec.ch>
Thank you for your CG and empty weight values. I hope to also get an empty
weight of around 720lbs. The Czech version of the Zodiac XL has a
carbonfiber landing gear which is 30 lbs lighter than the aluminium gear. So
I am still very confident...
Cheers
Martin
-----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]Im Auftrag von Jack
Russell
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. Dezember 2005 16:40
An: zenith-list@matronics.com
Betreff: RE: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of
Gravity
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell"
My empty weight is 712lbs, CG is 264.8.
I'm still not painted yet, so that will add a bit.
Lance sent me his weight and balance as a example and I just did mine
yesterday. I got 740 cg of 311. I am set up about the same as Lance but do
have paint and a full interior. I did some examples with full tanks and two
people180lbs andI can only get 40 lbs luggage for a total wt of 1284lbs. The
problem with this senario is that when the fuel goes to 0 my cg is 479 which
is aft of the 450 limit. I may get a bigger battery for the firewall.
I also expected my WL,WR,WN measurement to be the same as lances' but I
came up with a WR WL of 770 and a WN of -535 which was quite a ways off of
Lance's measurement. I would be interested in others.
Jack Russell -Clovis CA
601 XL Jabiru 3300
Progress update at:
http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of Gravity |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bruce Lee" <brucelee@mn.rr.com>
Do you know if it is possible to order the carbonfiber landing gear as an
upgrade when you order the kit?
Bruce lee
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Pohl" <mpohl@pohltec.ch>
Subject: AW: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of Gravity
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Martin Pohl" <mpohl@pohltec.ch>
>
> Thank you for your CG and empty weight values. I hope to also get an empty
> weight of around 720lbs. The Czech version of the Zodiac XL has a
> carbonfiber landing gear which is 30 lbs lighter than the aluminium gear.
> So
> I am still very confident...
>
> Cheers
> Martin
>
> -----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]Im Auftrag von Jack
> Russell
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. Dezember 2005 16:40
> An: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Betreff: RE: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of
> Gravity
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell"
>
> My empty weight is 712lbs, CG is 264.8.
>
> I'm still not painted yet, so that will add a bit.
>
> Lance sent me his weight and balance as a example and I just did mine
> yesterday. I got 740 cg of 311. I am set up about the same as Lance but
> do
> have paint and a full interior. I did some examples with full tanks and
> two
> people180lbs andI can only get 40 lbs luggage for a total wt of 1284lbs.
> The
> problem with this senario is that when the fuel goes to 0 my cg is 479
> which
> is aft of the 450 limit. I may get a bigger battery for the firewall.
> I also expected my WL,WR,WN measurement to be the same as lances' but I
> came up with a WR WL of 770 and a WN of -535 which was quite a ways off of
> Lance's measurement. I would be interested in others.
>
>
> Jack Russell -Clovis CA
> 601 XL Jabiru 3300
> Progress update at:
> http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html
>
>
>
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: BrownTool@aol.com
In a message dated 12/30/2005 1:25:13 PM Central Standard Time,
n963wb@frontiernet.net writes:
There is a company in the mid west called Northern Tool and Equipment
(formerly Northern Hydraulics) that currently has a three piece set on sale for
$25.00. Set consists of a 3/16 to 1/2, a 1/8 to 1/2 and a 1/4 to 3/4. These
drills appear to US made by a company called GRIP (Grand Rapids Industrial
Products).
Hi All,
Just for the record....the above mentioned step drills are in fact made in
China, they are NOT made in the USA. Almost always in the tool world, you
"get what you pay for" . My company as well as many others do sell Uni-Bits or
Step Drills that are MADE IN THE USA.
We sell a three piece Step Drill Kit equivalent to the above that is MADE IN
THE USA and comes in a custom fitted storage box with water jet cut foam
inserts for easy storage. It is our part number BAT-SDK3 and sells for $61.95.
Quite a difference in price versus the Chinese import, but again, when it
comes to cutting tools and hand tools, almost always and with very few
exceptions, "you get what you pay for".
Most builders would never consider buying a kit airplane from China, but
many will not hesitate to buy a drill bit or other cutting tool from a country
that produces precision products that are anything but precision. Sure, you
can find the occasional product from Harbor Freight or one of the other mass
importers that might perform well for a small job, but at what ultimate cost?
I would encourage people to think about a couple of things when considering
a tool purchase (or any purchase for that matter):
A) Will the tool last, will I end up replacing it several times at a
"bargain price"?
B) Is the company I am buying from a member of the aviation community? Do
they support my hobby/livelihood?
C) Am I truly interested in supporting American jobs and American workers?
Obviously my take on this issue is quite one sided and is based on the fact
that my livelihood and passion are based on the assumption that most members
of the aviation and kit building communities are intereted in buying quality
American made products at a fair price. For those that are, I would
encourage you to support small family owned tool suppliers that cater to your
passion
including my company, Avery, Cleaveland and others.
I will now hop off my soap box and get back to work!
Michael Brown
Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co.
2536 S.E. 15th Street
Oklahoma City, OK 73129
USA
405-688-6888
Fax 405-688-6555
browntool@aol.com
_www.browntool.com_ (http://www.browntool.com)
Absolutely - do not archive
Message 11
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
I too have been using step drill bits and find them very useful for a
very limited number of applications. I don't think it matters
whether they are made in China or the USA unless you want to spend
three times as much for the made in USA label. In either case these
are definitely not precision cutting tools.
The problem with these tools is they don't stay aligned with the
original pilot hole. If you use them in a hand held drill your will
find the center wandering as you move from one step to another. This
is no problem for very crude holes like starting holes to enable use
of more precision tools on a cutout in a wing skin. I find them
wonderful for starting inspection holes.
I have had problems trying to use them for holes that need to be in
the right place. One example of this is the large holes needed for
Dzus fasteners. The holes just don't wind up in the right place
after reaching the final diameter.
If you want precision holes, standard drill bits will work much
better than any step drill.
Paul
XL wings
At 02:14 PM 12/30/2005, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: BrownTool@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 12/30/2005 1:25:13 PM Central Standard Time,
>n963wb@frontiernet.net writes:
>
>There is a company in the mid west called Northern Tool and Equipment
>(formerly Northern Hydraulics) that currently has a three piece set
>on sale for
>$25.00. Set consists of a 3/16 to 1/2, a 1/8 to 1/2 and a 1/4 to
>3/4. These
>drills appear to US made by a company called GRIP (Grand Rapids Industrial
>Products).
>Hi All,
>
>Just for the record....the above mentioned step drills are in fact made in
>China, they are NOT made in the USA. Almost always in the tool world, you
>"get what you pay for" . My company as well as many others do
>sell Uni-Bits or
>Step Drills that are MADE IN THE USA.
>
>We sell a three piece Step Drill Kit equivalent to the above that is MADE IN
>THE USA and comes in a custom fitted storage box with water jet cut foam
>inserts for easy storage. It is our part number BAT-SDK3 and sells
>for $61.95.
> Quite a difference in price versus the Chinese import, but again, when it
>comes to cutting tools and hand tools, almost always and with very few
>exceptions, "you get what you pay for".
>
>Most builders would never consider buying a kit airplane from China, but
>many will not hesitate to buy a drill bit or other cutting tool from
>a country
>that produces precision products that are anything but precision. Sure, you
>can find the occasional product from Harbor Freight or one of the other mass
>importers that might perform well for a small job, but at
>what ultimate cost?
>I would encourage people to think about a couple of things when considering
>a tool purchase (or any purchase for that matter):
>
>A) Will the tool last, will I end up replacing it several times at a
>"bargain price"?
>B) Is the company I am buying from a member of the aviation community? Do
>they support my hobby/livelihood?
>C) Am I truly interested in supporting American jobs and American workers?
>
>Obviously my take on this issue is quite one sided and is based on the fact
>that my livelihood and passion are based on the assumption that most members
>of the aviation and kit building communities are intereted in
>buying quality
>American made products at a fair price. For those that are, I would
>encourage you to support small family owned tool suppliers that
>cater to your passion
>including my company, Avery, Cleaveland and others.
>
>I will now hop off my soap box and get back to work!
>
>Michael Brown
>
>Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co.
>2536 S.E. 15th Street
>Oklahoma City, OK 73129
>USA
>
>405-688-6888
>Fax 405-688-6555
>browntool@aol.com
>_www.browntool.com_ (http://www.browntool.com)
>
>Absolutely - do not archive
>
>
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Long Range Fuel Tanks |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
----- Original Message -----
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Long Range Fuel Tanks
-> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell"
<lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
> Doug,
> I have a flying XL with 2 x 12 Gal wing tanks.....
> Also, my fuel vents dribble fuel when the tanks are fairly full and I'm
> taxiing. If I'm not careful I can slosh out a gallon or so overboard
> through the vent just on the ground! Makes 12 gal a bit optimistic when
> the first couple never get to the engine!...
> ..lance
Lance,
Is your 601 a taildragger? I'm hoping my tri-gear won't slobber as bad.
Message 13
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| Subject: | curious about builders' experiences |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Herman <rocketone@astound.net>
Hey, guys,
I'm giving serious consideration to jumping into a Zodiac project, so I was
hoping some of you might share your experiences building the plane. I
would be keen to hear whether you have built or are building the standard
kit or the quick-build kit, and how many hours you figure you put into the
project. I would also like your thoughts on the factory support, and what
difficult problems you may have encountered during the build. Also, I
would appreciate any general thoughts or observations you would care to
share. -Don Herman
Message 14
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: <BrownTool@aol.com>
> Obviously my take on this issue is quite one sided and is based on the
fact
> that my livelihood and passion are based on the assumption that most
members
> of the aviation and kit building communities are intereted in buying
quality
> American made products at a fair price. For those that are, I would
> encourage you to support small family owned tool suppliers that cater to
your passion
> including my company, Avery, Cleaveland and others.
>
> I will now hop off my soap box and get back to work!
> Michael Brown
Michael,
Just curious, how many homebuilt kits has you passion allowed you to
complete?
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: curious about builders' experiences |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
Hello Don:
Here's a few thoughts -
I really enjoy building my Zodiac from the standard kit; I ADMIRE the scrap,
er, scratch builders out there !! I have a total of 71 hours actually
building the rudder, tail, flaps, and I'm 85% done with the ailerons. I have
to
admit I have at least DOUBLE that in studying the plans and photo guide and
planning my work, as well as building the table and equiping my shop (air
compressor, etc.).
Factory support - great. Support from other builders here on the Matronics
list - FANTASTIC !!
Go to the rudder workshop; it's worth the trip.
You'll end up with the envy of the airstrip when complete, and the RV guys
will drool with envy when you tell them the hours and the cost.....
Tracy Smith
Naugatuck, CT
601xl N458XL (reserved)
do not archive
Hey, guys,
I'm giving serious consideration to jumping into a Zodiac project, so I was
hoping some of you might share your experiences building the plane. I
would be keen to hear whether you have built or are building the standard
kit or the quick-build kit, and how many hours you figure you put into the
project. I would also like your thoughts on the factory support, and what
difficult problems you may have encountered during the build. Also, I
would appreciate any general thoughts or observations you would care to
share. -Don Herman
Message 16
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| Subject: | Long Range Fuel Tanks |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
I put a little over 1gal in each tank and ran them both dry. Then went back and
filled up. I found that the unusable fuel is .6gal so I now know that I can only
plan for about 22gals. Jack
Lance Gingell <lgingell@matrix-logic.com> wrote: Also, my fuel vents dribble fuel
when the tanks are fairly full and I'm
taxiing. If I'm not careful I can slosh out a gallon or so overboard
through the vent just on the ground! Makes 12 gal a bit optimistic when
the first couple never get to the engine!
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: curious about builders' experiences |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep@yahoo.com>
> Hi Tracy, I am a scrap builder as you say and I only
started
> last Sept. on my 701. I am working on the wing spars
right now
> and I must admit the plans do need mulling over. I
just found
> out thru some thinking that pitch meant rivet
spacing. Took me
> a while to figure it out, but it made sense as I
took a look at
> the MM scale. I am also in a group of guys building
a Glastar.
> I already have experience on building the rudder,
stabilizer,
> airlerons and flaps. It was quite an undertaking,
riveting and
> bucking rivets. Getting back to my wing spar. I have
the
> lightning holes drilled, but haven't flanged them
yet. I have a
> device I made up that will flange the holes while
its held in a
> drill press. Just got to try it out and see if it
works...
> Hey Tracy, good luck to you...Bob Sceppa
--- Crvsecretary@aol.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by:
> Crvsecretary@aol.com
>
>
> Hello Don:
>
>
> Here's a few thoughts -
>
> I really enjoy building my Zodiac from the standard
> kit; I ADMIRE the scrap,
> er, scratch builders out there !! I have a total of
> 71 hours actually
> building the rudder, tail, flaps, and I'm 85% done
> with the ailerons. I have to
> admit I have at least DOUBLE that in studying the
> plans and photo guide and
> planning my work, as well as building the table and
> equiping my shop (air
> compressor, etc.).
>
> Factory support - great. Support from other
> builders here on the Matronics
> list - FANTASTIC !!
>
> Go to the rudder workshop; it's worth the trip.
>
> You'll end up with the envy of the airstrip when
> complete, and the RV guys
> will drool with envy when you tell them the hours
> and the cost.....
>
>
> Tracy Smith
> Naugatuck, CT
> 601xl N458XL (reserved)
> do not archive
>
>
> Hey, guys,
>
> I'm giving serious consideration to jumping into a
> Zodiac project, so I was
> hoping some of you might share your experiences
> building the plane. I
> would be keen to hear whether you have built or are
> building the standard
> kit or the quick-build kit, and how many hours you
> figure you put into the
> project. I would also like your thoughts on the
> factory support, and what
> difficult problems you may have encountered during
> the build. Also, I
> would appreciate any general thoughts or
> observations you would care to
> share. -Don Herman
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
Message 18
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
List
Happy new year.
I have a problem with tach error on my 912ULS. I am complete and have a DAR
inspection set up for the 11th but I am unable to get the Tach,pitch RPM
correct.
I have a MGL M-1 engine monitor which picks up the signal from the 912 rev
counter wires. I didn't believe the accuracy of it and was sent a replacement
unit but it is reading the same.
I bought a Tiny Tach from Aircraft Spruce which picks up inductance off the
spark plug wire and it matches the E-1 RPM. Here is the problem, when I use
the optical tach to check the prop RPM using the 2.43 to 1 ratio there is a
large difference.
With 12 degrees pitch the tachs show max RPM of 4050 on the engine and 2187
on the prop.
With 11 degrees pitch the tachs show max RPM of 4502 on the engine and 2430
on the prop.
Using the backward formula of converting the prop RPM to engine RPM it
converts to 5304 at 12 degrees (tach showing 4050) and 5904 at 11 degrees pitch
(
engine tach showing 4502 RPM).
I don't know what to believe except that the engine is screaming at 11
degrees pitch. There is a test to check the optical tach and it checks out OK.
I
called Tiny Tach and they said that I have the right unit for the 912S and that
they doubt there is any inaccuracy but if I send it back they would retest it.
Is there any surefire way to verify engine RPM? I know there is a mechanical
cable take off on the 912 but I don't know what tach to use to verify RPM.
Any suggestions? I called Leading Edge Airfoils and they suggested that I
call Lockwood Aviation. Unfortunately they are closed until Monday. Could it be
possible that the 2.43 to 1 ratio is incorrect? I am going to try and verify
that in the morning.
Bob Spudis
CH-701 / 912S
Message 19
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
List
I have a DAR inspection coming up soon and he rattled off a bunch of things
that he would be looking for. What took me by surprise is he said that I would
need a conditional inspection done within 30 days prior to the inspection. I
told him that I would be going for my own Repairman Certificate but won't have
it until later. He told me that I would require an A&P to do it. Has anyone
ever heard of this before? I couldn't find that requirement anywhere.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX CH-701/912S
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: DAR inspection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
I am pretty sure there is a misunderstanding. The DAR does the initial
airworthiness inspection. If the plane passes, he should then give you your
operating limitations. At the end of the year, then you need to either have
your limited repairman's or have an A&P to do the conditional inspection.
I have passed on your message to Joe Norris A&P, IA, DAR at EAA. He may
answer this tomorrow but I will have an answer by Monday. If I or Joe
hasn't gotten back to you by Monday afternoon, please call Joe using the
FREE EAA info line listed in your EAA magazine. This service is part of your
EAA membership. I certainly hope that you have availed your self the
services of an EAA Tech Counselor and will talk to a Flight advisor before
your first flight. It is free and they both have been in your shoes.
Other questions, e-mail me. I can get the true answer for you.
Cy Galley -TC
EAA Safety Programs Editor
Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: <NYTerminat@aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: DAR inspection
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
>
> List
>
> I have a DAR inspection coming up soon and he rattled off a bunch of
> things
> that he would be looking for. What took me by surprise is he said that I
> would
> need a conditional inspection done within 30 days prior to the inspection.
> I
> told him that I would be going for my own Repairman Certificate but won't
> have
> it until later. He told me that I would require an A&P to do it. Has
> anyone
> ever heard of this before? I couldn't find that requirement anywhere.
>
> Bob Spudis
> N701ZX CH-701/912S
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: DAR inspection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
In a message dated 12/30/2005 11:13:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,
cgalley@qcbc.org writes:
I am pretty sure there is a misunderstanding. The DAR does the initial
airworthiness inspection. If the plane passes, he should then give you your
operating limitations. At the end of the year, then you need to either have
your limited repairman's or have an A&P to do the conditional inspection.
I have passed on your message to Joe Norris A&P, IA, DAR at EAA. He may
answer this tomorrow but I will have an answer by Monday. If I or Joe
hasn't gotten back to you by Monday afternoon, please call Joe using the
FREE EAA info line listed in your EAA magazine. This service is part of your
EAA membership. I certainly hope that you have availed your self the
services of an EAA Tech Counselor and will talk to a Flight advisor before
your first flight. It is free and they both have been in your shoes.
That's the way that I understood it. I have had two EAA tech inspections and
have had no squalks, said another wasn't necessary. I haven't talked to a
flight advisor.
Bob Spudis
Do not archive
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Tach RPM error |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill@sympatico.ca>
Hi Bob;
My 912ULS is 2.43. Be careful, you may be over revving the engine. I
have used an optical tach on mine. It is believable. Your numbers
suggest a ratio of only 1.85. That is not believable.
Mike
CH-601HDS
NYTerminat@aol.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
>
> List
>
> Happy new year.
>
> I have a problem with tach error on my 912ULS. I am complete and have a DAR
> inspection set up for the 11th but I am unable to get the Tach,pitch RPM
> correct.
>
> I have a MGL M-1 engine monitor which picks up the signal from the 912 rev
> counter wires. I didn't believe the accuracy of it and was sent a replacement
> unit but it is reading the same.
>
> I bought a Tiny Tach from Aircraft Spruce which picks up inductance off the
> spark plug wire and it matches the E-1 RPM. Here is the problem, when I use
> the optical tach to check the prop RPM using the 2.43 to 1 ratio there is a
> large difference.
>
> With 12 degrees pitch the tachs show max RPM of 4050 on the engine and 2187
> on the prop.
>
> With 11 degrees pitch the tachs show max RPM of 4502 on the engine and 2430
> on the prop.
>
> Using the backward formula of converting the prop RPM to engine RPM it
> converts to 5304 at 12 degrees (tach showing 4050) and 5904 at 11 degrees pitch
(
> engine tach showing 4502 RPM).
>
> I don't know what to believe except that the engine is screaming at 11
> degrees pitch. There is a test to check the optical tach and it checks out OK.
I
> called Tiny Tach and they said that I have the right unit for the 912S and that
> they doubt there is any inaccuracy but if I send it back they would retest it.
>
> Is there any surefire way to verify engine RPM? I know there is a mechanical
> cable take off on the 912 but I don't know what tach to use to verify RPM.
>
> Any suggestions? I called Leading Edge Airfoils and they suggested that I
> call Lockwood Aviation. Unfortunately they are closed until Monday. Could it
be
> possible that the 2.43 to 1 ratio is incorrect? I am going to try and verify
> that in the morning.
>
> Bob Spudis
> CH-701 / 912S
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Tach RPM error |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
In a message dated 12/30/2005 11:34:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mfothergill@sympatico.ca writes:
Hi Bob;
My 912ULS is 2.43. Be careful, you may be over revving the engine. I
have used an optical tach on mine. It is believable. Your numbers
suggest a ratio of only 1.85. That is not believable.
Mike
CH-601HDS
I'm with you worrying that I'd be overrevving the engine. Any ideas why the
other tachs are off? Or another way to verify engine RPM?
Bob
Do not archive
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Tach RPM error |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Do you have a piece of white tape on the back of the prop to assist the
optical tach?
----- Original Message -----
From: <NYTerminat@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tach RPM error
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 12/30/2005 11:34:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> mfothergill@sympatico.ca writes:
> Hi Bob;
> My 912ULS is 2.43. Be careful, you may be over revving the engine. I
> have used an optical tach on mine. It is believable. Your numbers
> suggest a ratio of only 1.85. That is not believable.
> Mike
> CH-601HDS
> I'm with you worrying that I'd be overrevving the engine. Any ideas why
> the
> other tachs are off? Or another way to verify engine RPM?
>
> Bob
> Do not archive
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: curious about builders' experiences |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt & Jo" <archermj@swbell.net>
Don,
You can check out my website for details of the build. www.zodiacxl.com
First, some philosophy. The journey of the build is much of the experience.
There is a mix between wanting to get into the air and saving as much money
as you can. I have learned and continue to learn so much. I though I knew
quite a bit. I am an Aerospace Engineer, and a Pilot. I have flown in the
Air Force and Reserves for the last 25 years. I have an ATP and have flown
767, KC-135s and was a test pilot for Boeing for a while. I have been a
designer and a System Safety Engineer. I am amazed at how much I have
learned with this journey. Half the fun has been discovering new ways to
screw things up and then fixing it. I wish I hadn't made the mistakes I've
made but it is from these mistakes that I have learned. The whole reason
for experimental aircraft is to learn. Go into it with an open mind.
I am really looking forward to flying. I probably have another year or so.
(Maybe a little optimistic) I got a test flight from the factory and from
another builder here in Wichita. Make sure you take a test flight. Know
what you are getting.
Factory support has been very good. They have answered every question I
have had.
The kit is very good. The photo assembly guides are a little deceptive. I
followed them very closely at first, but rely on the plans more and more.
The plans require careful study. The hours I logged don't include the many
hours looking at the drawings and pondering. You really need to understand
how the part you are working on fits into the next higher assembly before
you cut or drill. This has been the root of most of my rework. The first
time I had to rework a part I was over concerned. It really isn't that hard
to make a new part or to order a new one from the factory. I just ordered a
new side skin for the forward fuse. Had the cut out for the wing spar at
the wrong angle and miss drilled a couple of holes. Did it on Monday.
Ordered it that afternoon. Got it from ZAC yesterday. I know what I did
wrong and hopefully will make it work this time.
Balance. Make sure you keep your family in mind. It is awful tempting to
spend too much time in the shop. Don't get too concerned about schedules.
It will take longer than you think. But that is ok. The best advice I have
heard is. It's a hobby not a job.
I have enjoyed the project. Probably one of the best things I have done in
a long time.
Good luck with your decision.
Matt Archer
www.zodiacxl.com
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Herman <rocketone@astound.net>
>
> Hey, guys,
>
> I'm giving serious consideration to jumping into a Zodiac project, so I
> was
> hoping some of you might share your experiences building the plane. I
> would be keen to hear whether you have built or are building the standard
> kit or the quick-build kit, and how many hours you figure you put into the
> project. I would also like your thoughts on the factory support, and what
> difficult problems you may have encountered during the build. Also, I
> would appreciate any general thoughts or observations you would care to
> share. -Don Herman
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Tach RPM error |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
No, but the tach doesn't seem to hunt or have a hard time picking up the
blades. I will try that though.
Bob
Do not archive
In a message dated 12/30/2005 11:58:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
cgalley@qcbc.org writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Do you have a piece of white tape on the back of the prop to assist the
optical tach?
Message 27
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| Subject: | Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of Gravity |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Where can one purchase this carbon fiber landing gear you speak of?
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Martin Pohl
Subject: AW: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of Gravity
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Martin Pohl" <mpohl@pohltec.ch>
Thank you for your CG and empty weight values. I hope to also get an empty
weight of around 720lbs. The Czech version of the Zodiac XL has a
carbonfiber landing gear which is 30 lbs lighter than the aluminium gear. So
I am still very confident...
Cheers
Martin
-----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]Im Auftrag von Jack
Russell
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. Dezember 2005 16:40
An: zenith-list@matronics.com
Betreff: RE: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of
Gravity
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell"
My empty weight is 712lbs, CG is 264.8.
I'm still not painted yet, so that will add a bit.
Lance sent me his weight and balance as a example and I just did mine
yesterday. I got 740 cg of 311. I am set up about the same as Lance but do
have paint and a full interior. I did some examples with full tanks and two
people180lbs andI can only get 40 lbs luggage for a total wt of 1284lbs. The
problem with this senario is that when the fuel goes to 0 my cg is 479 which
is aft of the 450 limit. I may get a bigger battery for the firewall.
I also expected my WL,WR,WN measurement to be the same as lances' but I
came up with a WR WL of 770 and a WN of -535 which was quite a ways off of
Lance's measurement. I would be interested in others.
Jack Russell -Clovis CA
601 XL Jabiru 3300
Progress update at:
http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Tach RPM error |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Moore <moorecomp@yahoo.com>
Bob,
You did not say what prop you are running. I would
assume it is
a three blade since you have the 100hp 912. If that is
the case,
then I would suspect that the optical tach is set up
to read a 2
blade prop. All of your numbers have the prop turning
1/3rd
greater than it should read on the optical tach. If
the engine indicates 4502 as you say, then the prop
would be turning 1852.
If the optical tach is set for 2 blades, the it would
show
approx. 2468 rpm. I hope that this is the case and all
goes well
with the inspection.
Best regards,
Craig Moore
A&P and 701 builder wannabe
--> Zenith-List message posted by:
NYTerminat@aol.com
> List
>
> Happy new year.
>
> I have a problem with tach error on my 912ULS. I
> am complete and have a DAR
> inspection set up for the 11th but I am unable to
> get the Tach,pitch RPM
> correct.
snip
> With 11 degrees pitch the tachs show max RPM of
> 4502 on the engine and 2430 on the prop.
>
> Using the backward formula of converting the prop
> RPM to engine RPM it converts to 5304 at 12 degrees
(tach
> showing 4050) and 5904 at 11 degrees pitch (engine
tach
> showing 4502 RPM).
>
> Bob Spudis
> CH-701 / 912S
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