Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:18 AM - Re: Re: curious about builders' experiences ()
2. 01:48 AM - AW: Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of Gravity (Martin Pohl)
3. 06:04 AM - Re: DAR inspection (Bob Unternaehrer)
4. 07:02 AM - forum (Robert St.Denis)
5. 07:27 AM - CH701 (john swanson)
6. 08:01 AM - Re: Uni bits (bill naumuk)
7. 08:12 AM - Re: curious about builders' experiences (Larry McFarland)
8. 08:17 AM - Re: DAR inspection (Larry McFarland)
9. 08:54 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: Tach RPM Error (John M. Goodings)
10. 09:15 AM - Re: curious about builders' experiences (bill naumuk)
11. 09:31 AM - Re: Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of GravityZodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of Gravity (David X)
12. 10:02 AM - Re: Tach RPM error (NYTerminat@aol.com)
13. 10:08 AM - Re: curious about builders' experiences (fred sanford)
14. 10:40 AM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Digest: Tach RPM Error (NYTerminat@aol.com)
15. 10:50 AM - Re: Re: curious about builders' experiences (Mike)
16. 11:26 AM - Re: CH701 (JERICKSON03E@aol.com)
17. 11:29 AM - Avionics for sale (Mark Stauffer)
18. 12:46 PM - Re: CH701 (doug kandle)
19. 01:49 PM - Re: Re: curious about builders' experiences (Gary Liming)
20. 01:54 PM - AW: Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of GravityZodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of Gravity (Martin Pohl)
21. 02:33 PM - Re: Tach RPM error (David Alberti)
22. 02:55 PM - Center wing spar question (Randy)
23. 02:55 PM - Re: Tach RPM error (Paul Mulwitz)
24. 03:22 PM - Re: DAR inspection (ron dewees)
25. 03:41 PM - Re: Tach RPM error (David Alberti)
26. 04:02 PM - Re: CH701 (NYTerminat@aol.com)
27. 04:32 PM - 801 Builders (Rick Campbell)
28. 04:42 PM - Re: Tach RPM error (NYTerminat@aol.com)
29. 05:14 PM - Re: Tach RPM error (Craig Payne)
30. 06:36 PM - Re: Tach RPM error (cgalley)
31. 06:44 PM - Re: DAR inspection (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
32. 10:10 PM - Re: Primer (William Jeffries)
33. 10:21 PM - Re: Center wing spar question (Bryan Martin)
34. 11:04 PM - Re: Tach RPM error (NYTerminat@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: curious about builders' experiences |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <mhilderbrand@cox.net>
> Matt, you will be finished in a year or so? At the clip your completing your
bird I was thinking more like 6 months or so! keep pressing on!
mike
derby
do not archive
> From: "Matt & Jo" <archermj@swbell.net>
> Date: 2005/12/30 Fri PM 11:58:47 EST
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: curious about builders' experiences
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt & Jo" <archermj@swbell.net>
>
> Don,
>
> You can check out my website for details of the build. www.zodiacxl.com
>
> First, some philosophy. The journey of the build is much of the experience.
> There is a mix between wanting to get into the air and saving as much money
> as you can. I have learned and continue to learn so much. I though I knew
> quite a bit. I am an Aerospace Engineer, and a Pilot. I have flown in the
> Air Force and Reserves for the last 25 years. I have an ATP and have flown
> 767, KC-135s and was a test pilot for Boeing for a while. I have been a
> designer and a System Safety Engineer. I am amazed at how much I have
> learned with this journey. Half the fun has been discovering new ways to
> screw things up and then fixing it. I wish I hadn't made the mistakes I've
> made but it is from these mistakes that I have learned. The whole reason
> for experimental aircraft is to learn. Go into it with an open mind.
>
> I am really looking forward to flying. I probably have another year or so.
> (Maybe a little optimistic) I got a test flight from the factory and from
> another builder here in Wichita. Make sure you take a test flight. Know
> what you are getting.
>
> Factory support has been very good. They have answered every question I
> have had.
>
> The kit is very good. The photo assembly guides are a little deceptive. I
> followed them very closely at first, but rely on the plans more and more.
> The plans require careful study. The hours I logged don't include the many
> hours looking at the drawings and pondering. You really need to understand
> how the part you are working on fits into the next higher assembly before
> you cut or drill. This has been the root of most of my rework. The first
> time I had to rework a part I was over concerned. It really isn't that hard
> to make a new part or to order a new one from the factory. I just ordered a
> new side skin for the forward fuse. Had the cut out for the wing spar at
> the wrong angle and miss drilled a couple of holes. Did it on Monday.
> Ordered it that afternoon. Got it from ZAC yesterday. I know what I did
> wrong and hopefully will make it work this time.
>
> Balance. Make sure you keep your family in mind. It is awful tempting to
> spend too much time in the shop. Don't get too concerned about schedules.
> It will take longer than you think. But that is ok. The best advice I have
> heard is. It's a hobby not a job.
>
> I have enjoyed the project. Probably one of the best things I have done in
> a long time.
>
> Good luck with your decision.
>
> Matt Archer
> www.zodiacxl.com
>
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Herman <rocketone@astound.net>
> >
> > Hey, guys,
> >
> > I'm giving serious consideration to jumping into a Zodiac project, so I
> > was
> > hoping some of you might share your experiences building the plane. I
> > would be keen to hear whether you have built or are building the standard
> > kit or the quick-build kit, and how many hours you figure you put into the
> > project. I would also like your thoughts on the factory support, and what
> > difficult problems you may have encountered during the build. Also, I
> > would appreciate any general thoughts or observations you would care to
> > share. -Don Herman
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of Gravity |
Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Martin Pohl" <mpohl@pohltec.ch>
The carbon-fiber gear is standard on Czech Aircraft Works aircraft (european
dealer for the Zodiac XL). Therefore I don't know about price and
availability of the gear as an option. Try to contact CEO Chip Erwin
(AIRCRAFT@CZAW.CZ), he surely can give you an answer.
The gear assembly itself is different than the standard Zenith aluminium
gear. Some changes need to be made to the fuselage (it might be difficult to
do that belated). The gear consists of 2 halfs.
Cheers
Martin Pohl
601XL CZAW QBK
-----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]Im Auftrag von kevinbonds
Gesendet: Samstag, 31. Dezember 2005 06:21
An: zenith-list@matronics.com
Betreff: RE: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of
Gravity
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Where can one purchase this carbon fiber landing gear you speak of?
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Martin Pohl
Subject: AW: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of Gravity
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Martin Pohl" <mpohl@pohltec.ch>
Thank you for your CG and empty weight values. I hope to also get an empty
weight of around 720lbs. The Czech version of the Zodiac XL has a
carbonfiber landing gear which is 30 lbs lighter than the aluminium gear. So
I am still very confident...
Cheers
Martin
-----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]Im Auftrag von Jack
Russell
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. Dezember 2005 16:40
An: zenith-list@matronics.com
Betreff: RE: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of
Gravity
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell"
My empty weight is 712lbs, CG is 264.8.
I'm still not painted yet, so that will add a bit.
Lance sent me his weight and balance as a example and I just did mine
yesterday. I got 740 cg of 311. I am set up about the same as Lance but do
have paint and a full interior. I did some examples with full tanks and two
people180lbs andI can only get 40 lbs luggage for a total wt of 1284lbs. The
problem with this senario is that when the fuel goes to 0 my cg is 479 which
is aft of the 450 limit. I may get a bigger battery for the firewall.
I also expected my WL,WR,WN measurement to be the same as lances' but I
came up with a WR WL of 770 and a WN of -535 which was quite a ways off of
Lance's measurement. I would be interested in others.
Jack Russell -Clovis CA
601 XL Jabiru 3300
Progress update at:
http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: DAR inspection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
My plane was inspected by the FSDO, but he had me make a log book entry
myself using the standard inspection Jargen that I found it Airworthy. Bob
U.
----- Original Message -----
From: <NYTerminat@aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: DAR inspection
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
>
> List
>
> I have a DAR inspection coming up soon and he rattled off a bunch of
things
> that he would be looking for. What took me by surprise is he said that I
would
> need a conditional inspection done within 30 days prior to the inspection.
I
> told him that I would be going for my own Repairman Certificate but won't
have
> it until later. He told me that I would require an A&P to do it. Has
anyone
> ever heard of this before? I couldn't find that requirement anywhere.
>
> Bob Spudis
> N701ZX CH-701/912S
>
>
Message 4
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identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message
has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label
similar future email. If you have any questions, see
the administrator of that system for details.
Content preview: Hey guys ... got bored this morning so I set up a forum
http://ch640.iahu.ca/forum/ Have a good one [...]
Content analysis details: (-4.4 points, 5.0 required)
-1.8 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP
0.0 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert St.Denis" <rob@iahu.ca>
Hey guys ... got bored this morning so I set up a forum
http://ch640.iahu.ca/forum/
Have a good one
Message 5
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: john swanson <jswanson@up.net>
anyone
Kit building the 701, wings almost done, working on fuselage
I need help in positioning the Top Longeron Gusset. What reference point
do I use
to get it in the right place?
I have a msg into ZAC but have not heard from them yet
John
Tie Lake, MI
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "bill naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
All-
For me, availability is my main consideration, and the leads listers
give on where to find odd-ball tools and parts may be the greatest benefit
of this forum. I'm not going to blow half a day and $20 worth of gas to save
$5 on a tool! My step drills came from Harbor Freight, only because I
happened to be there, and they happened to be on sale. On the other hand, my
last 3 tools came from small, homebuilder-specific US companies on leads
from listers, and were a bargain for the fact that they work and I didn't
have to look all over Hell for them.
Now, excuse me while I go down to the local hardware store to pick up an
American branded saw blade, made in Sweden. I might pay $1 more, but I'll be
back in 20 minutes.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Uni bits
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <BrownTool@aol.com>
> > Obviously my take on this issue is quite one sided and is based on
the
> fact
> > that my livelihood and passion are based on the assumption that most
> members
> > of the aviation and kit building communities are intereted in buying
> quality
> > American made products at a fair price.
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: curious about builders' experiences |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Don,
You're looking at a project that can be extremely satisfying as either
kit, quick-build or plans-
built. Support from Zenith is regarded as very good. I'm a plans
builder and I always got an
answer within a day or two of email and when I called, usually they
provided an explanation
of what I needed know on the spot. The drawings were much improved at
Version 4.
What I've recently seen of XL drawings and build info, they've improved
considerably since.
I have to give Zenith high marks on builder-satisfaction during and
after build.
The real plus is that at 80+ hours the plane is still a real joy to fly.
If you'd like to see the process evolved from my perspective, please
visit my website
with journal and pages of pictures arranged to show the methods I used
to accomplish each
type of component, and see the final product on the Completions page.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Don Herman wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Herman <rocketone@astound.net>
>
>Hey, guys,
>
>I'm giving serious consideration to jumping into a Zodiac project, so I was
>hoping some of you might share your experiences building the plane. I
>would be keen to hear whether you have built or are building the standard
>kit or the quick-build kit, and how many hours you figure you put into the
>project. I would also like your thoughts on the factory support, and what
>difficult problems you may have encountered during the build. Also, I
>would appreciate any general thoughts or observations you would care to
>share. -Don Herman
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: DAR inspection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Bob,
If you have an FAA office anywhere near or a FAA inspector that visits
one of the larger airport repair facilities
near you, it might be easier to get your Airworthiness Inspection done
by him. The process is not lengthy and
It should not take more than 3 - 4 hours of a morning. My inspector was
more than pleased to visit and perform
the necessary paper work to get this done.
Larry McFarland
do not archive
NYTerminat@aol.com wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
>
>List
>
>I have a DAR inspection coming up soon and he rattled off a bunch of things
>that he would be looking for. What took me by surprise is he said that I would
>need a conditional inspection done within 30 days prior to the inspection. I
>told him that I would be going for my own Repairman Certificate but won't have
>it until later. He told me that I would require an A&P to do it. Has anyone
>ever heard of this before? I couldn't find that requirement anywhere.
>
>Bob Spudis
>N701ZX CH-701/912S
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: Tach RPM Error |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John M. Goodings" <goodings@yorku.ca>
Believe the optical tach once you have checked it. Check it using any
light bulb powered by the 60 Hz mains; i.e. 60 cycles per second = 3600
cycles per minute, or RPM. My inexpensive optical tach by Cermark shows
3600 RPM pointed at a light bulb; this is for a 2-bladed prop. Mine can
also be set for a 3-bladed prop (shows 2400 RPM) or a 4-bladed prop (shows
1800 RPM) pointed at the light bulb. My brand new Mitchell electronic
tach for the Rotax 912 engine read about 2/3 of the true value, and I came
close to overspeeding the prop before I had the blade pitch set correctly.
This was very disconcerting right at the beginning when the new engine had
only been run a few times. I can appreciate your mental anguish. I was
also annoyed that Mitchell would offer zero compensation because the tach
had been sitting on a shelf in my basement for more than 2 years
untouched, and was technically out of warranty. Mitchell gave me a load
of rubbish to the effect that when a tach is left untouched, it is very
hard on the tach! I suggested to them that, if true, they should give
serious thought to redesigning their tachometer. One also has to worry
whether the pickup point on the engine, i.e. the sender, is reading
correctly. In my case, a new electronic tach agreed with the optical
tach, meaning that the engine sender is fine. Good luck with it. But
proceed with caution - don't overspeed the engine.
John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, 97 hours, Toronto and Waterloo.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: curious about builders' experiences |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "bill naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
Tracy-
I agree with just about everything my fellow listers have said.
Everything's a trade-off. My observations:
1. You WILL screw up big time. I'm an engineer, many of the listers are
engineers, A+Ps, even EAA advisors and WE'VE ALL BEEN CAUGHT at some point
in the building process. Don't get the impression "This can't happen to me"
and you'll be prepared for the blow when it comes. Take heart that at least
you're in good company.
2. Your best buddies are listers. They're people that have done it
(Wrong) and figured out how to do it right. Formal list postings can get
downright ugly; but you'll find that if you prove you're not wasting their
time, listers will give you the shirt off their back to help you one-on-one.
3. Forget about progress by the hour. Concentrate on progress by work
completed that you're not afraid to fly with.
4. While you'll occasionally find blueprint mistakes, most bad advice
comes from the Builder's Manual.
5. Retro part support from Zenith is superb, but don't be afraid to make
your own replacements. Since you have to be intimately familiar with the
drawings to fabricate the parts, you're just as far ahead building from
plans, in my estimation.
6. The most useful tool not included in the "Basic" list is the
"Clicker" center punch.
Good luck.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "ROBERT SCEPPA" <rjscep@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: curious about builders' experiences
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep@yahoo.com>
>
> > Hi Tracy, I am a scrap builder as you say and I only
> started
> > last Sept. on my 701. I am working on the wing spars
> right now
> > and I must admit the plans do need mulling over. I
> just found
> > out thru some thinking that pitch meant rivet
> spacing. Took me
> > a while to figure it out, but it made sense as I
> took a look at
> > the MM scale. I am also in a group of guys building
> a Glastar.
> > I already have experience on building the rudder,
> stabilizer,
> > airlerons and flaps. It was quite an undertaking,
> riveting and
> > bucking rivets. Getting back to my wing spar. I have
> the
> > lightning holes drilled, but haven't flanged them
> yet. I have a
> > device I made up that will flange the holes while
> its held in a
> > drill press. Just got to try it out and see if it
> works...
> > Hey Tracy, good luck to you...Bob Sceppa
> --- Crvsecretary@aol.com wrote:
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by:
> > Crvsecretary@aol.com
> >
> >
> > Hello Don:
> >
> >
> > Here's a few thoughts -
> >
> > I really enjoy building my Zodiac from the standard
> > kit; I ADMIRE the scrap,
> > er, scratch builders out there !! I have a total of
> > 71 hours actually
> > building the rudder, tail, flaps, and I'm 85% done
> > with the ailerons. I have to
> > admit I have at least DOUBLE that in studying the
> > plans and photo guide and
> > planning my work, as well as building the table and
> > equiping my shop (air
> > compressor, etc.).
> >
> > Factory support - great. Support from other
> > builders here on the Matronics
> > list - FANTASTIC !!
> >
> > Go to the rudder workshop; it's worth the trip.
> >
> > You'll end up with the envy of the airstrip when
> > complete, and the RV guys
> > will drool with envy when you tell them the hours
> > and the cost.....
> >
> >
> > Tracy Smith
> > Naugatuck, CT
> > 601xl N458XL (reserved)
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> > Hey, guys,
> >
> > I'm giving serious consideration to jumping into a
> > Zodiac project, so I was
> > hoping some of you might share your experiences
> > building the plane. I
> > would be keen to hear whether you have built or are
> > building the standard
> > kit or the quick-build kit, and how many hours you
> > figure you put into the
> > project. I would also like your thoughts on the
> > factory support, and what
> > difficult problems you may have encountered during
> > the build. Also, I
> > would appreciate any general thoughts or
> > observations you would care to
> > share. -Don Herman
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > browse
> > Subscriptions page,
> > FAQ,
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> >
> > Admin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Just $16.99/mo. or less.
> dsl.yahoo.com
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of GravityZodiac |
XL: Your Empty weight / Center of Gravity
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" <dxj@comcast.net>
I've been told by one of the owners at Czech Aircraft Works that the carbon
fiber landing gear used in Europe requires some structural changes to the
aircraft. It's not a straight bolt-on replacement for the heavy duty
aluminum gear that comes with the kit. They claim that it is every bit as
strong as the aluminum gear, but again they don't fly them as heavy as they
do in the US - 450KG vs. 600KG. I haven't been able to find a straight
bolt-on carbon gear replacement from a third party either.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Tach RPM error |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
Craig
I wish it were that simple. No, I am using the 3 blade setting, I have a
Woodcomp Klassic 3 bladed prop.
In a message dated 12/31/2005 2:53:25 AM Eastern Standard Time,
moorecomp@yahoo.com writes:
Bob,
You did not say what prop you are running. I would
assume it is
a three blade since you have the 100hp 912. If that is
the case,
then I would suspect that the optical tach is set up
to read a 2
blade prop. All of your numbers have the prop turning
1/3rd
greater than it should read on the optical tach. If
the engine indicates 4502 as you say, then the prop
would be turning 1852.
If the optical tach is set for 2 blades, the it would
show
approx. 2468 rpm. I hope that this is the case and all
goes well
with the inspection.
Best regards,
Craig Moore
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: curious about builders' experiences |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: fred sanford <sonar1@cox.net>
Hi Don:
It isn't easy to build one of these planes, but everyone I talk to that
has ever done it says that it was the most fun year or their lives. Your
brain gets a workout, you learn to use new tools, learn new skills, one
challenge after another, etc. I've got 28 hours flying time on mine, and
am already looking forward to the next building project.
I had a friend helping me build mine, and that really helped. Also it
is really nice to be able to chat here with the other builders.
If you are at the go-no go decision; I'd say go for it! Have fun!
do not archive
Fred Sanford CH701 N9701 28 hours KIZA
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: Tach RPM Error |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
John,
Wow I'm not the only one that has such errors. I can't understand why there
are such errors in these tachs. I will be trying to sort things out today. I
hope that I haven't already overreved!
Bob
In a message dated 12/31/2005 11:56:14 AM Eastern Standard Time,
goodings@yorku.ca writes:
This was very disconcerting right at the beginning when the new engine had
only been run a few times. I can appreciate your mental anguish. I was
also annoyed that Mitchell would offer zero compensation because the tach
had been sitting on a shelf in my basement for more than 2 years
untouched, and was technically out of warranty. Mitchell gave me a load
of rubbish to the effect that when a tach is left untouched, it is very
hard on the tach! I suggested to them that, if true, they should give
serious thought to redesigning their tachometer. One also has to worry
whether the pickup point on the engine, i.e. the sender, is reading
correctly. In my case, a new electronic tach agreed with the optical
tach, meaning that the engine sender is fine. Good luck with it. But
proceed with caution - don't overspeed the engine.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: curious about builders' experiences |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
I also agree with most everything that was written here, but being the village
skeptic on the list, I really wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't throw in
a caution or two. :) As you have already read, most builders are enthusiasts
about this hobby -- and the goal is to be sure you fall into that same category.
There are those that enjoy the building process, and those that want to
fly. Yes, there are some that fall somewhere in the middle, but my opinion is
that you better lean heavily towards the builder side, or you could set yourself
up for disappointment later on. Building these kit planes is NOT tab A into
slot B, and it's definitely not as easy as the marketing materials make
it sound. This is true especially when you consider that the airframe is all
you get.....you still have to install everything firewall forward, and that's
a whole other task unto itself (and not as easy as the rest of the plane). This
is not to say that you need to be an A & P or an
aerospace engineer (although many builders are one of those things). You can
certainly plow through the process without those skills -- but understand that
it will be far more difficult. Those of us that didn't know a spar from a rib
have a larger challenge and learning curve.
You could try the rudder kit before taking the full plunge. It's relatively
cheap, and will give you a taste of what's ahead. Another caution though....the
rudder is by far the easiest part to build on the plane, and the instructions
are more detailed than some of the other components.
Those cautions aside, if you really think you'll enjoy building (most important),
and you can put flying on the back burner for a while (unless of course
you have acces to another plane), and if you have a reasonable set of skills,
then go for it!
Mike Fortunato
601XL
---------------------------------
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
Message 16
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
John,
Alignment is shown on 7F5, VIEW FROM TOP.
It shows the 20 mm dimension lined up over 7F5-3SP.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Avionics for sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" <mark.stauffer@cablespeed.com>
Fellow listers,
I have a friend that has the following for sale:
99 Apollo GX65 GPS/COMM
99 Apollo SL 79 transponder (300 watt)
Trans Cal Industries SSD120 encoder w/RS232
GPS Antennae and data card
The units have been bench checked.
He is asking $3,000.00 for the whole set up.
Please e-mail me off list if you're interested and I can give you his name
and phone number.
Please don't ask me any specific questions because I can't answer them.
Mark Stauffer
601XL firewall forward
Odenton, MD
Do not archive
Message 18
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: doug kandle <d_kandle@velocitus.net>
I am about a couple of weeks behind you so I thought I would look at
this problem. Speaking without having actually completed this task
(so beware!)
Figure 7-F-5, Top view. Point "A" is marked on the drawing (left
side pointing to the intersection of 7F5-1SP and 7F3-1). I believe
that this point will correspond to the point marked "A" on the part
drawing for 3SP on page 7-F-3.
At 08:26 AM 12/31/2005, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: john swanson <jswanson@up.net>
>
>anyone
>
>Kit building the 701, wings almost done, working on fuselage
>I need help in positioning the Top Longeron Gusset. What reference point
>do I use
>to get it in the right place?
>I have a msg into ZAC but have not heard from them yet
>
>John
>Tie Lake, MI
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: curious about builders' experiences |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Liming <gary@liming.org>
Mike's comments below as the resident skeptic are in order, well
stated, and accurate - its not easy. I think, though, that the
challenge of learning to fly, i.e., mastering not only the stick and
rudder but several other subjects like navigation, weather, systems,
communications, and yes, even regulations, is a steep learning curve
as well. It is that kind of sense of accomplishment you get from
leaping these hurdles that makes you love this stuff, hungry for
more. Building an airplane is another long list of learning curves
that represents a new kind of challenge. If you can't handle delayed
gratification, stay away - but then, you probably wouldn't be a
pilot, either. I believe its true that if you don't like learning
new things, applying those things until you get it right, and
enjoying the result, then probably homebuilding isn't for you.
However, I can honestly say that there have been very, very few
feelings in my life that comes close to what you feel when you
finally fly the aircraft you built for the first time. It took me 5
years, and I am thinking of doing it again. The sense of the miracle
of flight (if that's just a cliche for you now, just wait!) and the
sensation of controlling a untried craft in the air, one that you
know every detail, the trepidation that maybe you've overlooked
something, the joy of feeling its response, and the safe return when
you can say you've honestly join the ranks of test pilots is just
something that really can't be explained.
I think it is well worth it.
Gary Liming
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
>
>I also agree with most everything that was written here, but being
>the village skeptic on the list, I really wouldn't be doing my job
>if I didn't throw in a caution or two. :) As you have already
>read, most builders are enthusiasts about this hobby -- and the
>goal is to be sure you fall into that same category. There are
>those that enjoy the building process, and those that want to fly.
>Yes, there are some that fall somewhere in the middle, but my
>opinion is that you better lean heavily towards the builder side,
>or you could set yourself up for disappointment later on. Building
>these kit planes is NOT tab A into slot B, and it's definitely not
>as easy as the marketing materials make it sound. This is true
>especially when you consider that the airframe is all you
>get.....you still have to install everything firewall forward, and
>that's a whole other task unto itself (and not as easy as the rest
>of the plane).
Message 20
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| Subject: | Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of GravityZodiac |
XL: Your Empty weight / Center of Gravity
Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Martin Pohl" <mpohl@pohltec.ch>
I build the Zodiac XL as an "experimental" with a MTOW of 590kg - and the
gear should be capable to support this weight according CZAW. Nevertheless I
had a look in the building plans and it really looks like as the
installation of the carbon gear results in "major" changes of the fuselage
structure...
Cheers
Martin
-----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]Im Auftrag von David X
Gesendet: Samstag, 31. Dezember 2005 18:30
An: zenith-list@matronics.com
Betreff: Re: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of
GravityZodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of Gravity
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" <dxj@comcast.net>
I've been told by one of the owners at Czech Aircraft Works that the carbon
fiber landing gear used in Europe requires some structural changes to the
aircraft. It's not a straight bolt-on replacement for the heavy duty
aluminum gear that comes with the kit. They claim that it is every bit as
strong as the aluminum gear, but again they don't fly them as heavy as they
do in the US - 450KG vs. 600KG. I haven't been able to find a straight
bolt-on carbon gear replacement from a third party either.
Message 21
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Alberti" <daberti@sbcglobal.net>
I am assuming you have already discovered that the rotax fires on both the
compression and exhaust stroke. Perhaps the pickups you have are not
generating the correct signal due to the impulses being too close together
in the higher RPM ranges. IE a 7000 rpm tach is receiving a 10,000 rpm
signal a 5,000 rpm and over driving the tach.
Dave 601-HD 912ULS
You did not say what prop you are running. I would
assume it is
a three blade since you have the 100hp 912. If that is
the case,
then I would suspect that the optical tach is set up
to read a 2
blade prop. All of your numbers have the prop turning
1/3rd
greater than it should read on the optical tach. If
the engine indicates 4502 as you say, then the prop
would be turning 1852.
If the optical tach is set for 2 blades, the it would
show
approx. 2468 rpm. I hope that this is the case and all
goes well
with the inspection.
Best regards,
Craig Moore
Message 22
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| Subject: | Center wing spar question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy" <rpf@wi.rr.com>
Hello members,
I have a question about the center wing spar on my 601xl kit (pre-made part by
Zenith).
I thing I might have a problem with the way my center wing spar(6W4) was drilled.
I drilled the wing jig spar insert(6B13) and when I inserted them into the
wing spar the passenger side is at a greater angle than the pilot side. I thought
I might have drilled the holes incorrectly but after I re-measured them,
they are correct. So I decided to measure the holes in the center wing spar
(6W4) and found that the holes on the passenger side come in at a greater angle
than do the holes on the pilot side.
I measured from the flange to the bottom of the holes. The most inboard hole on
both the pilot and passenger sides is 36mm. The most outboard hole on the pilot
side is 40mm and on the passenger side is 44mm. I put a Smart Level on both
sides and when the center wing spar is level (0.0) the pilot side spar insert
jig is 5.0 and the passenger side jig is 5.8. Won't this make the tip of
the right wing be considerably higher than the left?
I've just sent an email to Zenith complete with pictures but I thought, with the
expertise of this list, I would check here also.
Thanks,
Randy Ferri
601xl
Message 23
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
I knew there was something about the Rotax I didn't like, but I
wasn't sure what it was.
Apparently they just use their 2 stroke ignition system for the 4
stroke engine . . .
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
At 02:32 PM 12/31/2005, you wrote:
>I am assuming you have already discovered that the rotax fires on both the
>compression and exhaust stroke. Perhaps the pickups you have are not
>generating the correct signal due to the impulses being too close together
>in the higher RPM ranges. IE a 7000 rpm tach is receiving a 10,000 rpm
>signal a 5,000 rpm and over driving the tach.
>
>Dave 601-HD 912ULS
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: DAR inspection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Hi Bob,
I second what Larry said. The guy who shares a hangar with me got his
project inspected 2 years ago by the FSDO office and the lady was very
up to date about paperwork and the process took about 40 minutes. I had
my inspection done about 1 year ago by the MIDO office which seems to be
a lot more aware of experimental and construction practices. I must have
called at an off time since a car with 4 inspectors pulled up to the
airport. I expected to have to drop my pants and cough, but it was a
very pleasant experience. I think several of the inspectors were in
training and my plane made an excuse for a field trip.
This week a friend of mine at my airport had a very sharp DAR do his
inspection and the inspection also took about an hour but cost $500
cash. I can't say which is better or worse, but this is just my
experience. I am sure the DAR scheduled on a shorter notice than the FAA
did, but I would move pretty fast for $500 an hour!
I will say that both MIDO and FSDO seemed to have the attitude that it
was my right to kill myself in the plane as long as the proper paperwork
had been filed and approved. The DAR would have been a better choice if
I was depending on someone to give it one more checkout before the
flight. OTOH, I had a very good EAA tech counselor who did do a good
checkout so I didn't depend on the FAA to backstop my errors.
In general I suspect that the FAA will take longer to schedule an
inspection so if you want to use them I suggest you get some telephone
numbers and start dialing,
Ron
do not archive
Larry McFarland wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
>Bob,
>If you have an FAA office anywhere near or a FAA inspector that visits
>one of the larger airport repair facilities
>near you, it might be easier to get your Airworthiness Inspection done
>by him. The process is not lengthy and
>It should not take more than 3 - 4 hours of a morning. My inspector was
>more than pleased to visit and perform
>the necessary paper work to get this done.
>
>Larry McFarland
>do not archive
>
>NYTerminat@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
Message 25
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Alberti" <daberti@sbcglobal.net>
This is a standard practice on most new electronic ignition systems. They
see the trigger on every revolution of the crankshaft and fire on every
trigger.
Dave 601-HD 912ULS
-----Original Message-----
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
I knew there was something about the Rotax I didn't like, but I
wasn't sure what it was.
Apparently they just use their 2 stroke ignition system for the 4
stroke engine . . .
Paul
XL wings
Message 26
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
You are so right!
Bob Spudis
N701ZX
In a message dated 12/31/2005 3:47:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,
d_kandle@velocitus.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: doug kandle <d_kandle@velocitus.net>
I am about a couple of weeks behind you so I thought I would look at
this problem. Speaking without having actually completed this task
(so beware!)
Figure 7-F-5, Top view. Point "A" is marked on the drawing (left
side pointing to the intersection of 7F5-1SP and 7F3-1). I believe
that this point will correspond to the point marked "A" on the part
drawing for 3SP on page 7-F-3.
At 08:26 AM 12/31/2005, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: john swanson <jswanson@up.net>
>
>anyone
>
>Kit building the 701, wings almost done, working on fuselage
>I need help in positioning the Top Longeron Gusset. What reference point
>do I use
>to get it in the right place?
>I have a msg into ZAC but have not heard from them yet
>
>John
>Tie Lake, MI
>
>
Message 27
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rick Campbell" <rcampbell@me.vccs.edu>
I have a pair of vacuum formed interior door panels for the CH-801 for sale. They
feature built-in arm rests and map pockets, they give the interior a professional
finished look. If anyone is interested e-mail me off-list.
31/12/2005
Rick Campbell
rcampbell@me.vccs.edu
http://www.mecc.edu
This email is intended for the exclusive use by the person(s) mentioned as recipient(s).
This email and its attachments, if any, contain confidential information
and/or may contain information protected by intellectual property rights
or others rights. This email does not constitute any commitment from Mountain
Empire Community College or its subsidiaries except when expressly agreed in a
written agreement between the intended recipient and Mountain Empire Community
College or its subsidiaries. If you receive this email by mistake, please notify
the sender and delete this email immediately from your system and destroy
all copies of it. You may not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute,
print or copy this email or any part of it if you are not the intended recipient.
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Tach RPM error |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
I am aware that the Rotax fires on each stroke. The Straomaster E-1 is set up
to look at that signal on every revolution. It seems to be reading way low
in low and high RPM. I can set the Stratomaster to a .7 or .8 setting which
will fake it into getting a closer RPM range( .7 is high by approx 400 and the
.8
setting is low by about 400 RPM). I can't set it inbetween (ie .75) to make
up the difference. This is the 2nd Stratomaster and it reads the same as the
1st one. The Tiny tach which picks up inductance off the plug wire is low by
well over 1000 RPM in the upper RPM range. How accurate are everyone elses tach?
I reset the prop to 13 degrees and get a optical tach reading of 5395 at max
RPM, which is real close to the 6% less than max RPM at static test that
Woodcomp reccomends. I pulled the plugs and checked the ratio between the prop
and
piston TDC and it looks like the 2.43 to 1 is correct. Do I have to live with
this inaccuracy?
Bob Spudis
N701ZX CH-701/912S
do not archive
In a message dated 12/31/2005 6:42:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
daberti@sbcglobal.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Alberti" <daberti@sbcglobal.net>
This is a standard practice on most new electronic ignition systems. They
see the trigger on every revolution of the crankshaft and fire on every
trigger.
Dave 601-HD 912ULS
-----Original Message-----
Message 29
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
A number of people have complained about the accuracy of a variety of tachs
that try to pick-up signals from the ignition system. Mark Langford for one
over on the Corvair list. What appears to be the most reliable is a
gear-tooth sensor. Mark is changing over his GRT engine monitor to use that
with an additional black box from GRT. William Wynne of Corvair fame is
using a gear tooth sensor on his 601xl/Corvair.
When I ordered my Stratormaster Ultra Deluxe Whoopie Wizbang glass panel I
also ordered their sensor:
"GT-1 Geartooth sensor for Rotor RPM, $85"
http://www.sportflyingshop.com/Instr/Stratomaster/Ultra/ultra.html
While this is intended for rotor speed Rainier at MGL says it should work
fine for engine rpm. Here is another sensor to consider: a tach signal
"Giant Magnetoresistive" pickup:
http://www.msdignition.com/2006/06-22.htm
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
NYTerminat@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tach RPM error
--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
I am aware that the Rotax fires on each stroke. The Straomaster E-1 is set
up to look at that signal on every revolution. It seems to be reading way
low in low and high RPM. I can set the Stratomaster to a .7 or .8 setting
which will fake it into getting a closer RPM range( .7 is high by approx 400
and the .8 setting is low by about 400 RPM). I can't set it inbetween (ie
.75) to make up the difference. This is the 2nd Stratomaster and it reads
the same as the 1st one. The Tiny tach which picks up inductance off the
plug wire is low by well over 1000 RPM in the upper RPM range. How accurate
are everyone elses tach?
I reset the prop to 13 degrees and get a optical tach reading of 5395 at max
RPM, which is real close to the 6% less than max RPM at static test that
Woodcomp reccomends. I pulled the plugs and checked the ratio between the
prop and piston TDC and it looks like the 2.43 to 1 is correct. Do I have to
live with this inaccuracy?
Bob Spudis
N701ZX CH-701/912S
do not archive
In a message dated 12/31/2005 6:42:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
daberti@sbcglobal.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Alberti"
--> <daberti@sbcglobal.net>
This is a standard practice on most new electronic ignition systems. They
see the trigger on every revolution of the crankshaft and fire on every
trigger.
Dave 601-HD 912ULS
-----Original Message-----
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Tach RPM error |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Harley used that method for years. My V-6 Buick uses only 3 coils and uses
the same lost spark scheme. Nothing wrong with it.
Cy Galley - Webmaster
www.edgewoodaggregates.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Alberti" <daberti@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Tach RPM error
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Alberti" <daberti@sbcglobal.net>
>
> This is a standard practice on most new electronic ignition systems. They
> see the trigger on every revolution of the crankshaft and fire on every
> trigger.
>
> Dave 601-HD 912ULS
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
> I knew there was something about the Rotax I didn't like, but I
> wasn't sure what it was.
>
> Apparently they just use their 2 stroke ignition system for the 4
> stroke engine . . .
>
> Paul
> XL wings
>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: DAR inspection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Get another DAR. Your paying, right ? Find one that understands his job.
Message 32
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: William Jeffries <vair601@yahoo.com>
Kevin,
As I understand zinc oxide, it's designed for use on steel. I would need to
research it further to form an opinion. However, chromate is not out of the realm
on price.
Bill Jeffries
kevinbonds <kevinbonds@comcast.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds"
Bill
What are your thoughts on Zinc Oxide as a replacement for Chromate?
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Jeffries
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer
--> Zenith-List message posted by: William Jeffries
Dave,
The primer that Diamond-Vogel is the right stuff.
I've read the posts bragging all the different primers, epoxies,
activator products, etc. So I thought that I would give a quick
explaination of how and why Zinc Chromate primers are probably the best for
aircraft. Most primers seal the material that they are bonded to there by
offering protection the the base metal. Self etching products are just
describing a method of improving the bond to the base material. Zinc
Chromate offers protection by sealing the metal as the others do however
they offer one other means of protection. Zinc Chromate has free electrons
at a molecular level that are offered up to the base metal to help stablize
the material and prevent corrosion. Zinc Chromate has been an industry
standard far longer than I've been alive, it's proven and trusted.
Hope this helps, Bill Jeffries.
---------------------------------
601 Dreaming, going down for a test flight in September.
---------------------------------
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Center wing spar question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
It is my understanding that the the center and outer segments of the wing
spar of the XL are assembled in a jig and the holes are drilled through both
parts at the same time. The holes drilled on the left side may not be
aligned the same as the holes on the right side but when all three segments
are bolted together both outer wing spars should be at the same angle. You
can test this out by putting the three sections of the spar together and
measuring the dihedral angle on both sides. The holes drilled on the left
side of the center wing spar section should match up with the holes on the
left outer spar section and the same match up should exist on the right
side.
As I recall, I ran into the same situation as you, drilling the wing jigs
according to the dimensions on the plans resulted in the holes in the wing
jigs not lining up with the holes already drilled in the center spar
section. The left side and the right side hole patterns were different. I
ended up using a file to oval out some of the holes in the jigs to make them
fit. After I made my adjustments, the jigs worked out just fine. The
"dihedral angle" of the wing jigs in not very important anyway. The
important thing is the fore-aft angles of the spar center section and the
rear frame. This is what the wing jigs are designed to establish.
To make the wing jigs, the holes need to be match drilled with the holes
already drilled in the spar center section. The hole locations shown in the
plans are the "nominal" locations, the actual locations will be a bit
different. This point apparently is not made clear in the plans. If you
check the list archives, I think you will find a discussion of this subject
that took place a couple of years ago.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
on 12/31/05 5:52 PM, Randy at rpf@wi.rr.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy" <rpf@wi.rr.com>
>
> Hello members,
>
> I have a question about the center wing spar on my 601xl kit (pre-made part by
> Zenith).
>
> I thing I might have a problem with the way my center wing spar(6W4) was
> drilled. I drilled the wing jig spar insert(6B13) and when I inserted them
> into the wing spar the passenger side is at a greater angle than the pilot
> side. I thought I might have drilled the holes incorrectly but after I
> re-measured them, they are correct. So I decided to measure the holes in the
> center wing spar (6W4) and found that the holes on the passenger side come in
> at a greater angle than do the holes on the pilot side.
>
> I measured from the flange to the bottom of the holes. The most inboard hole
> on both the pilot and passenger sides is 36mm. The most outboard hole on the
> pilot side is 40mm and on the passenger side is 44mm. I put a Smart Level on
> both sides and when the center wing spar is level (0.0) the pilot side spar
> insert jig is 5.0 and the passenger side jig is 5.8. Won't this make the tip
> of the right wing be considerably higher than the left?
>
> I've just sent an email to Zenith complete with pictures but I thought, with
> the expertise of this list, I would check here also.
>
> Thanks,
> Randy Ferri
> 601xl
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Tach RPM error |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
Craig,
The signal for the tach on the 912 is a seperate pickup coil seperate from
the ignition system. The gear tooth sensor may have some issuse at the high RPM
of the Rotax. The MSD sensor may be something that may work. I will see what
MSL has to say on monday.
Happy New Year to all.
Bob Spudis
do not archive
In a message dated 12/31/2005 8:15:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
craig@craigandjean.com writes:
A number of people have complained about the accuracy of a variety of tachs
that try to pick-up signals from the ignition system. Mark Langford for one
over on the Corvair list. What appears to be the most reliable is a
gear-tooth sensor. Mark is changing over his GRT engine monitor to use that
with an additional black box from GRT. William Wynne of Corvair fame is
using a gear tooth sensor on his 601xl/Corvair.
When I ordered my Stratormaster Ultra Deluxe Whoopie Wizbang glass panel I
also ordered their sensor:
"GT-1 Geartooth sensor for Rotor RPM, $85"
http://www.sportflyingshop.com/Instr/Stratomaster/Ultra/ultra.html
While this is intended for rotor speed Rainier at MGL says it should work
fine for engine rpm. Here is another sensor to consider: a tach signal
"Giant Magnetoresistive" pickup:
http://www.msdignition.com/2006/06-22.htm
-- Craig
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