Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:02 AM - Re: Tach RPM error (Craig Payne)
2. 04:57 AM - DAR DUTIES (PASSPAT@aol.com)
3. 05:00 AM - DAR DUTIES (PASSPAT@aol.com)
4. 06:04 AM - Re: Re: curious about builders' experiences (David Plozay)
5. 06:23 AM - Edge Distances on the 701 (David Plozay)
6. 07:50 AM - Re: Edge Distances on the 701 (Larry McFarland)
7. 08:12 AM - Wing painting jig (Al Young)
8. 08:39 AM - Re: Center wing spar question (Carlos Sa)
9. 08:46 AM - Re: Edge Distances on the 701 (Paul Mulwitz)
10. 08:51 AM - Re: Wing painting jig (Paul Mulwitz)
11. 08:58 AM - quick build 601 XL (Michial Pedri)
12. 09:03 AM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Digest: Tach RPM Error (Tommy Walker)
13. 09:12 AM - Re: Wing painting jig (cgalley)
14. 09:39 AM - Re: Center wing spar question (bill naumuk)
15. 09:44 AM - Re: quick build 601 XL (Trevor Page)
16. 09:56 AM - Re: quick build 601 XL (Paul Mulwitz)
17. 10:02 AM - Re: quick build 601 XL (Gary A. Boothe)
18. 11:57 AM - Re: quick build 601 XL. (Gary Gower)
19. 12:11 PM - Re: Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of Gravity ()
20. 12:50 PM - Re: Edge Distances on the 701 (Larry McFarland)
21. 01:59 PM - Re: quick build 601 XL. (bill naumuk)
22. 02:12 PM - Aileron Trim (bill naumuk)
23. 02:44 PM - Re: Center wing spar question (Bryan Martin)
24. 03:21 PM - Re: quick build 601 XL (long) (Allen Ricks)
25. 04:05 PM - 601XL v. 701Cabin Comfort (Bill Pagan)
26. 04:24 PM - Re: Wing painting jig (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
27. 04:32 PM - Re: quick build 601 XL (long) (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
28. 04:43 PM - Re: 601XL v. 701Cabin Comfort (Zodie Rocket)
29. 05:10 PM - Re: 601XL v. 701Cabin Comfort (Larry McFarland)
30. 05:33 PM - Re: quick build 601 XL (long) (Allen Ricks)
31. 06:13 PM - Re: quick build 601 XL (long) (JOHN STARN)
32. 06:28 PM - Re: quick build 601 XL (long) (Paul Mulwitz)
33. 06:32 PM - Re: Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of Gravity (Robin Bellach)
34. 06:49 PM - Nav/Strobe wire routing. (Paul Mulwitz)
35. 07:14 PM - 601 frapper map (Craig Payne)
36. 07:17 PM - Re: 601XL v. 701Cabin Comfort (Craig Payne)
37. 07:29 PM - Re: quick build 601 XL (long) (Craig Payne)
38. 07:34 PM - Re: Nav/Strobe wire routing. (Craig Payne)
39. 07:36 PM - Re: 601 frapper map (Allen Ricks)
40. 07:51 PM - Re: 601 frapper map (Craig Payne)
41. 07:51 PM - ISP Problems (bill naumuk)
42. 08:28 PM - Site update (Larry)
43. 08:33 PM - Re: ISP Problems (Robert St.Denis)
44. 08:52 PM - Re: quick build 601 XL (long) (Allen Ricks)
45. 09:00 PM - Re: 601XL v. 701Cabin Comfort (NYTerminat@aol.com)
46. 09:03 PM - Re: ISP Problems identified this incoming email as (Matt Dralle)
47. 09:11 PM - Re: Site update (NYTerminat@aol.com)
48. 09:23 PM - Re: quick build 601 XL (long) (Craig Payne)
49. 09:58 PM - Re:Wing painting jig (T. Graziano)
50. 10:13 PM - Re: 601 frapper map (cgalley)
51. 10:52 PM - Re: 601 frapper map (kevinbonds)
Message 1
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Interesting, where does the built-in coil pick up its signal from? Is it
conditioned at all? If it is more of a sine wave than a square wave the slow
rise and fall times may trigger false signals in E-1's input circuit. But it
is true that all the MGL manuals I have looked at show the RPM pickup going
directly to the engine.
The link below points to a spec sheet for the GT-1 (look at page 57). It
says the GT1 has "Fast operating speed - over 100 kHz".
http://stevenengineering.com/Tech_Support/PDFs/31SSS.PDF
Good luck and Happy New Year.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
NYTerminat@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tach RPM error
--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
Craig,
The signal for the tach on the 912 is a seperate pickup coil seperate from
the ignition system. The gear tooth sensor may have some issuse at the high
RPM of the Rotax. The MSD sensor may be something that may work. I will see
what MSL has to say on monday.
Happy New Year to all.
Bob Spudis
do not archive
In a message dated 12/31/2005 8:15:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
craig@craigandjean.com writes:
A number of people have complained about the accuracy of a variety of tachs
that try to pick-up signals from the ignition system. Mark Langford for one
over on the Corvair list. What appears to be the most reliable is a
gear-tooth sensor. Mark is changing over his GRT engine monitor to use that
with an additional black box from GRT. William Wynne of Corvair fame is
using a gear tooth sensor on his 601xl/Corvair.
When I ordered my Stratormaster Ultra Deluxe Whoopie Wizbang glass panel I
also ordered their sensor:
"GT-1 Geartooth sensor for Rotor RPM, $85"
http://www.sportflyingshop.com/Instr/Stratomaster/Ultra/ultra.html
While this is intended for rotor speed Rainier at MGL says it should work
fine for engine rpm. Here is another sensor to consider: a tach signal
"Giant Magnetoresistive" pickup:
http://www.msdignition.com/2006/06-22.htm
-- Craig
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: PASSPAT@aol.com
To The List
I think all home builders should download a copy of AC-20-27F and follow
the instructions included there with the flow chart .
Your DAR can refer to this as well it explains in detail all the phases
of getting your airworthiness cert. and duties REG. of the attending DAR
Pat Patterson AB-DAR
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: PASSPAT@aol.com
To The List
I think all home builders should download a copy of AC-20-27F and follow
the instructions included there with the flow chart .
Your DAR can refer to this as well it explains in detail all the phases
of getting your airworthiness cert. and duties REG. of the attending DAR
Pat Patterson AB-DAR
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: curious about builders' experiences |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Plozay" <dplozay@cox.net>
I'm building a 701 from kit (tail finished, working on right wing).
Here are some numbers on the building process that prospective builders
don't always think of (I didn't).
I'm one of those 'average' builders. Before I started my build I didn't
know how to read plans, didn't understand how to install a compressed air
system, was uninitiated in the arts of proper edge distance (still learning
here), and (cripes!) who would have thought building an airplane involved so
much filing.
To date I've purchased the tail and wings kits, a cost of about $5,000. I've
also purchased $550 in replacement parts for those that I've ruined; a
defect rate of about 10%. This rate also translates well to the amount of
time spent on rework (less the time spent on cursing, moping, and
reconsidering this mad mad adventure).
Less objectively, if I could give my earlier self advise it would be, "If
you only want to fly then buy a completed aircraft". After all, there are
lots of used aircraft that may bought for less than a new kit aircraft.
David Plozay, Omaha NE
701
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike" <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: curious about builders' experiences
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
>
> I also agree with most everything that was written here, but being the
> village skeptic on the list, I really wouldn't be doing my job if I
> didn't throw in a caution or two. :) As you have already read, most
> builders are enthusiasts about this hobby -- and the goal is to be sure
> you fall into that same category. There are those that enjoy the building
> process, and those that want to fly. Yes, there are some that fall
> somewhere in the middle, but my opinion is that you better lean heavily
> towards the builder side, or you could set yourself up for disappointment
> later on. Building these kit planes is NOT tab A into slot B, and it's
> definitely not as easy as the marketing materials make it sound. This is
> true especially when you consider that the airframe is all you
> get.....you still have to install everything firewall forward, and that's
> a whole other task unto itself (and not as easy as the rest of the
> plane). This is not to say that you need to be an A & P or an
> aerospace engineer (although many builders are one of those things). You
> can certainly plow through the process without those skills -- but
> understand that it will be far more difficult. Those of us that didn't
> know a spar from a rib have a larger challenge and learning curve.
>
> You could try the rudder kit before taking the full plunge. It's
> relatively cheap, and will give you a taste of what's ahead. Another
> caution though....the rudder is by far the easiest part to build on the
> plane, and the instructions are more detailed than some of the other
> components.
>
> Those cautions aside, if you really think you'll enjoy building (most
> important), and you can put flying on the back burner for a while (unless
> of course you have acces to another plane), and if you have a reasonable
> set of skills, then go for it!
>
> Mike Fortunato
> 601XL
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays,
> whatever.
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Edge Distances on the 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Plozay" <dplozay@cox.net>
Here's a seemingly simple question, "what is the minimum edge distance for holes
on the 701?" This issue is seemingly simple because the Construction Manual
states the "Absolute Minimum edge distance" as 2 x Hole Diameter; great here's
a fixed standard. This issue is confusing because the plans sometimes call for
rivets to be placed closer to edges than this standard (for example part 7V4-4
on drawing page 7V5 specifies a rivet line (for A5 rivets) 7mm from the top
of the part. I get concerned because I calculate the minimum edge distance as
2 x 4mm 8mm. Hmmm, what am I missing?
I'm also having difficulty achieving minimum edge distance on the Bent L Angle
that is riveted to the side of part 7V4-5 (see page 7V5). How have you experienced
701 builders solved this problem?
Dave, Omaha NE
701
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Edge Distances on the 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
David,
The drawing supersedes any "absolute rules" that are provided for
general good practice. Only the designer
can establish a dimension that violates the rule, because he knows what
the long term result will be. Trust
the drawing, consider the rule for general good practice, but follow the
drawing.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
David Plozay wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Plozay" <dplozay@cox.net>
>
>Here's a seemingly simple question, "what is the minimum edge distance for holes
on the 701?" This issue is seemingly simple because the Construction Manual
states the "Absolute Minimum edge distance" as 2 x Hole Diameter; great here's
a fixed standard. This issue is confusing because the plans sometimes call
for rivets to be placed closer to edges than this standard (for example part 7V4-4
on drawing page 7V5 specifies a rivet line (for A5 rivets) 7mm from the top
of the part. I get concerned because I calculate the minimum edge distance
as 2 x 4mm 8mm. Hmmm, what am I missing?
>
>I'm also having difficulty achieving minimum edge distance on the Bent L Angle
that is riveted to the side of part 7V4-5 (see page 7V5). How have you experienced
701 builders solved this problem?
>
>Dave, Omaha NE
>701
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Wing painting jig |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" <armyret@one-eleven.net>
Anyone designed a jig, stand, or whatever that can be used to hold the XL wing
for painting? Should be able to rotate wing during painting process. Other attributes
would be, easy to construct, cheap, etc. Am I asking the impossible?
Al Young
XL
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Center wing spar question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Bryan, are you keeping the oval hole?
I ask because I am told bolts in that location should fit snugly.
Here is some text, written by an aviation consultant with respectable credentials
(and member of our local EAA chapter) that discusses this:
"A loose joint will allow relative motion (wear and fatigue), will allow moisture
(corrosion), will cause hardening of the bearing surface (eventual cracking),
will transmit loads unevenly to the material it is supposed to hold (stress
cracks) and will allow the bolt to cant sideways in a single shear application
(cracking under the head of the bolt or thinning a softer material, weakening
it)."
Complete text here:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/fhofmann/art_round_hole.html
BTW, the article discusses the black art of drilling round holes (as opposed
to those pesky triangular ones).
Happy New Year, everyone - hope all your rivets are aligned, tail winds (at
altitude! nose wind near the runway!), all holes be round, and that extra hole
finds a purpose in life.
Carlos
CH601-HD
Building tanks
Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net> wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted
by: Bryan Martin
...
The left side and the right side hole patterns were different. I
ended up using a file to oval out some of the holes in the jigs to make them fit.
---------------------------------
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Edge Distances on the 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi David,
I am pretty new at metal airplane building myself, so I am not sure I
have the edge distance thing worked out correctly.
First, a 1/8" rivet is around 3 mm in diameter. 2 times that is 6
mm. This comes out to 4.5 mm from the edge of the hole to the edge
of the metal since edge distance is measured from the center of the
rivet hole. An A4 rivet is close to 1/8" and an A5 is just a little
bigger. My guess for the minimum A5 edge distance is 6 mm.
It gets a little fuzzy when you consider where edge distance
applies. It seems that when you are putting rivets into an "Angle"
the distance does apply to the open edge of the angle but not to the
edge where the bend is. I don't know exactly why that is, but that
seems to be the case. Perhaps one of the better trained listers can
address this subject for both of us.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
>Here's a seemingly simple question, "what is the minimum edge
>distance for holes on the 701?" This issue is seemingly simple
>because the Construction Manual states the "Absolute Minimum edge
>distance" as 2 x Hole Diameter; great here's a fixed standard. This
>issue is confusing because the plans sometimes call for rivets to be
>placed closer to edges than this standard (for example part 7V4-4 on
>drawing page 7V5 specifies a rivet line (for A5 rivets) 7mm from the
>top of the part. I get concerned because I calculate the minimum
>edge distance as 2 x 4mm 8mm. Hmmm, what am I missing?
>
>I'm also having difficulty achieving minimum edge distance on the
>Bent L Angle that is riveted to the side of part 7V4-5 (see page
>7V5). How have you experienced 701 builders solved this problem?
>
>Dave, Omaha NE
>701
--
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Wing painting jig |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Yes, I think you are asking the impossible.
Any jig you want that could remain in place while you rotate the wing
would cover some of the wing area you want to paint. I spent a lot
of mental energy trying to come up with convenient ways to turn a
wing over while building it and could not do it without having the
wing tip removed. That allowed using the lightening holes as points
to attach the handles.
That said, you might be able to build a stand that holds the wing
from underneath. Perhaps some kind of floating supports like the
kind you find on boat trailers would work well. You could lay the
wing on the stand to paint one side and turn it over after the paint
has dried to do the other side.
Good luck,
Paul
XL wings
At 08:13 AM 1/1/2006, you wrote:
>Anyone designed a jig, stand, or whatever that can be used to hold
>the XL wing for painting? Should be able to rotate wing during
>painting process. Other attributes would be, easy to construct,
>cheap, etc. Am I asking the impossible?
>Al Young
>XL
-
Message 11
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| Subject: | quick build 601 XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michial Pedri <pedfly60@yahoo.com>
I have read several posts that indicate the building process is much more complicated
and time consuming than what is advertised by zenith and this really scares
me away from the "kit build process." About the three years ago I purchased
the rudder for the 701 and was able to finish it with no major problems in
about 25 hours, but since then I have been on a three year deployment with the
military.
I am curious to know how much of the "new builder mistakes and frustrations"
might be aleviated by the quick build 601 xl kit? I am a new and timid builder
with little and long ago builder experience.
Any advice offered would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Mike Pedri, US
Army
---------------------------------
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: Tach RPM Error |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
Folks,
Regarding tachometer accuracy, a couple of months ago I offered a no-cost
piece of software that was given to me several years ago by the developer.
It uses sound to calculate RPM. I might serve as a backup to verify the
optical and other tachs you are testing. You could install it on your
laptop and take it out to the airport with you.
I had a geared Continental engine that I tested it on several years ago, and
it seemed more accurate than the 45 year old tach in the Cessna.
Email me at: twalker@cableone.net and I will forward the program to you.
Tommy Walker in Alabama
Do Not Archive.
Accuracy not guaranteed.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Wing painting jig |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Quickest and cheapest is to get a cheap automotive engine stand from China
and attach the wing root to it. Might have to weight the engine stand or
fasten an outrigger to the wing tip.
Cy Galley - Chair,
AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
A Service Project of Chapter 75
EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Young" <armyret@one-eleven.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Wing painting jig
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" <armyret@one-eleven.net>
>
> Anyone designed a jig, stand, or whatever that can be used to hold the XL
> wing for painting? Should be able to rotate wing during painting process.
> Other attributes would be, easy to construct, cheap, etc. Am I asking the
> impossible?
> Al Young
> XL
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Center wing spar question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "bill naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
I knew it- proof of another pandemic! Internationally transmitted,
targets homebuilders, a form of the "Bird" flu- "Extra hole syndrome".
Good luck to all in '06.......
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carlos Sa" <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Center wing spar question
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
>
> Bryan, are you keeping the oval hole?
>
> I ask because I am told bolts in that location should fit snugly.
> Here is some text, written by an aviation consultant with respectable
credentials (and member of our local EAA chapter) that discusses this:
>
> "A loose joint will allow relative motion (wear and fatigue), will
allow moisture (corrosion), will cause hardening of the bearing surface
(eventual cracking), will transmit loads unevenly to the material it is
supposed to hold (stress cracks) and will allow the bolt to cant sideways
in a single shear application (cracking under the head of the bolt or
thinning a softer material, weakening it)."
>
> Complete text here:
> http://www3.sympatico.ca/fhofmann/art_round_hole.html
>
> BTW, the article discusses the black art of drilling round holes (as
opposed to those pesky triangular ones).
>
>
> Happy New Year, everyone - hope all your rivets are aligned, tail winds
(at altitude! nose wind near the runway!), all holes be round, and that
extra hole finds a purpose in life.
>
> Carlos
> CH601-HD
> Building tanks
>
> Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net> wrote: --> Zenith-List message
posted by: Bryan Martin
>
>
> ...
> The left side and the right side hole patterns were different. I
> ended up using a file to oval out some of the holes in the jigs to make
them fit.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: quick build 601 XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
Mike: complicated? No! More time consuming? Yes
When I decided to build my 601HD I was really scared. The only other
plane I "built" (more like assembled) was an X-Air. When I spoke to a
friend who built an XL and he told me the only thing he ever built
before was a bird house. That gave me tons on confidence.
My kit was an unfinished plane and still put in a year to finish it.
It could have been sooner but I spent a lot of time on the interior,
engine and electronics to "get it right"
I'd do it again in a second (and some money! ;)
The main thing to remember: dedicate the time to do it and stick to
it. Most airplane projects don't get finished because people don't
make the time and thus lose interest. The quick-build kit won't be
any different.
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Jan 1, 2006, at 11:57 AM, Michial Pedri wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michial Pedri <pedfly60@yahoo.com>
>
> I have read several posts that indicate the building process is
> much more complicated and time consuming than what is advertised by
> zenith and this really scares me away from the "kit build
> process." About the three years ago I purchased the rudder for the
> 701 and was able to finish it with no major problems in about 25
> hours, but since then I have been on a three year deployment with
> the military.
>
> I am curious to know how much of the "new builder mistakes and
> frustrations" might be aleviated by the quick build 601 xl kit? I
> am a new and timid builder with little and long ago builder
> experience.
>
> Any advice offered would be greatly appreciated. Thank you,
> Mike Pedri, US Army
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: quick build 601 XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Mike,
I find it difficult to correctly describe how difficult the kit
building process is, but I will try.
First, I have no experience with quick build kits so I can't say for
sure how much easier they are than regular kits. I suspect the focus
is mostly on making the build process faster rather than easier. I
am sure some of the problems are already solved - particularly those
that get major components to fit together properly. Still, I am sure
there are plenty of challenges left for the builder. If that weren't
true the FAA 51% rule would be violated.
Some people start building an airplane kit with the idea it will be
similar to one of those Revel (TM) plastic plane kits we all built as
kids. This is far from the truth. In the plastic kid's kits all the
parts are formed and made to fit together before the box is
opened. The kid only has to add glue and place the parts where they
fit to complete the basic structure. A little trimming and the model
is ready to paint.
Another view of the notion of a kit applies to kits like the ones
provided by ZAC. In this version of a kit, the kit provider does the
leg work to find the correct materials needed for the finished
plane. They also prepare some of the raw materials to limit the
quantity to that needed for the project rather than the quantity
normally sold by the material manufacturer. For example, aluminum
sheets are commonly sold in 4 by 12 foot sheets. However you might
need a rough cut piece 6 inches by 14 inches for a given airplane
part. ZAC would cut the 6 by 14 piece from a large sheet and label
it before putting it in the kit. The builder still needs to
completely lay out the part, mark and drill whatever holes are
needed, deburr the edges and holes, and figure out how to install the
part where it is needed.
In this kind of kit, the builder is saved the effort of locating
numerous suppliers who have stock of the exact material needed. They
also save the builder from having to buy a standard quantity of the
material when they really need much less.
Another service provided by ZAC is to preform some of the
parts. They decide which parts and which operations on those parts
are too difficult for the builder to perform. The reason might
involve how hard it is to do the operation or how specialized the
equipment needed for the operation might be. That is all part of the
kit design process. So, some of the parts have pilot holes drilled
in them and some don't. Some are pre-bent before going into the kit
and some are not.
ZAC also provides extensive builder support. Some of this is
appropriate for plans builders while other support goes to all
builders. It often involves interpreting the design and sometimes
involves dealing with builder mistakes and how to correct them. All
builders, being human, eventually make some mistakes. It may be
possible to correct them without replacing the parts or it may be
necessary (or desirable) to replace parts. All of that is part of
the building process and part of the factory support game.
Hopefully this has been enough to make the process more
clear. Anyone can eventually build a plane from a Zenith kit. It
may be more important that the person is careful (e.g. measure twice,
cut once) rather than for the builder to have a lot of
experience. There is lots of help available for those operations you
don't really understand.
I think persistence is the most important quality for a successful
builder. The job is big enough that it takes several years to
complete. In that kind of job there are going to be many times when
a builder will ask himself if it is really worth continuing. This is
especially true after he discovers a mistake that requires going back
and either fixing the mistake or replacing materials and doing it
over again. If you have the kind of determination it takes to
complete such a project then I think you should give it a try. If
you are the kind of person who tends to give up on something if it is
difficult or painful then you might be best advised to consider an
easier hobby.
Good luck,
Paul
XL wings
>I have read several posts that indicate the building process is much
>more complicated and time consuming than what is advertised by
>zenith and this really scares me away from the "kit build
>process." About the three years ago I purchased the rudder for the
>701 and was able to finish it with no major problems in about 25
>hours, but since then I have been on a three year deployment with
>the military.
>
> I am curious to know how much of the "new builder mistakes and
> frustrations" might be aleviated by the quick build 601 xl kit? I
> am a new and timid builder with little and long ago builder experience.
>
> Any advice offered would be greatly appreciated. Thank
> you, Mike Pedri, US Army
>
>
>-----
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: quick build 601 XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary A. Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
Michial,
Thank you for your service to our country!
When these posts started showing up a few days ago I was tempted to respond,
but decided against it as the posters were merely representing their
well-deserved opinions. My concern, though, was that a prospective builder
would be dissuaded by these comments. One poster made it sound as though if
he, an educated and experienced person, made such mistakes, then ALL
builders must be having the same problems.
I am purchasing the various kits as I could not afford the entire kit at
once, and have completed the rudder, horizontal stab, and one wing (almost)
with zero mistakes! That's not to say that today may be the day I skrew up,
big time. Admittedly, I work at a slow pace, reading each process many
times before I start, and I never work with distractions. When my 4 yr old
grandson comes over, I stop. When I read a sentence 3 times and still can't
grasp the picture, I stop.
If building is what will bring you pleasure, then jump in - the water's
fine! I hope that you will have as much pleasure as I! This list is a
fantastic resource where you will always find the help and support you need.
Gary Boothe, Cool, Ca
<gboothe@calply.com>
601HDSTD, WW Corvair Conv. - complete
Tail Group - complete. Working on Wings...
> I have read several posts that indicate the building process is much more
> complicated and time consuming than what is advertised by zenith and this
> really scares me away from the "kit build process." About the three years
> ago I purchased the rudder for the 701 and was able to finish it with no
> major problems in about 25 hours, but since then I have been on a three
> year deployment with the military.
>
> I am curious to know how much of the "new builder mistakes and
> frustrations" might be aleviated by the quick build 601 xl kit? I am a
> new and timid builder with little and long ago builder experience.
>
> Any advice offered would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Mike Pedri,
> US Army
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays,
> whatever.
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: quick build 601 XL. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Gary is right, probably is easier for anyone named Gary :-)
But we built a 701 complete and only made one important mistake: The stabilizer
support (dont have the piece number now) where the elevator hinge is installed,
was drilled the wrong side, like looking at a mirror... No big deal to
make a second piece from scratch.
Mi two advises : before drilling, cutting or riveting, be shure you understand
what you are doing and look for the next steps.
Only a few steps are in this category, yes is important that when we read a sentence
3 times and still can't grasp the picture, stop and take a brake, later
the picture will be clear, or the inspiration will come easy from ZAC or the
List :-)
Another building "danger" is the excess of confidence. Some things look so easy
to make or assemble that we dont pay enough atention and blow it... Looking
backwards, for me the Kit is on the easy side to build.
Hope this helps.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
701 912S
Now assembling a 601XL...
"Gary A. Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary A. Boothe"
Michial,
Thank you for your service to our country!
When these posts started showing up a few days ago I was tempted to respond,
but decided against it as the posters were merely representing their
well-deserved opinions. My concern, though, was that a prospective builder
would be dissuaded by these comments. One poster made it sound as though if
he, an educated and experienced person, made such mistakes, then ALL
builders must be having the same problems.
I am purchasing the various kits as I could not afford the entire kit at
once, and have completed the rudder, horizontal stab, and one wing (almost)
with zero mistakes! That's not to say that today may be the day I skrew up,
big time. Admittedly, I work at a slow pace, reading each process many
times before I start, and I never work with distractions. When my 4 yr old
grandson comes over, I stop. When I read a sentence 3 times and still can't
grasp the picture, I stop.
If building is what will bring you pleasure, then jump in - the water's
fine! I hope that you will have as much pleasure as I! This list is a
fantastic resource where you will always find the help and support you need.
Gary Boothe, Cool, Ca
601HDSTD, WW Corvair Conv. - complete
Tail Group - complete. Working on Wings...
> I have read several posts that indicate the building process is much more
> complicated and time consuming than what is advertised by zenith and this
> really scares me away from the "kit build process." About the three years
> ago I purchased the rudder for the 701 and was able to finish it with no
> major problems in about 25 hours, but since then I have been on a three
> year deployment with the military.
>
> I am curious to know how much of the "new builder mistakes and
> frustrations" might be aleviated by the quick build 601 xl kit? I am a
> new and timid builder with little and long ago builder experience.
>
> Any advice offered would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Mike Pedri,
> US Army
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays,
> whatever.
>
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of Gravity |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
Kevin, I bought my composite gear (not sure it's carbon fiber) from Czech Aircraft Works. (aircraft@czaw.cz<mailto:aircraft@czaw.cz>) I got the legs, saddles, wheels, brakes, tires, etc. from them. Each leg complete weighed in at around 12.5 pounds. My first contact was with Chip Irwin, then with Marketa Durdakova. What with the currency fluctuations, I wouldn't know what the price is now, but it's comparable to Grove's prices. Very nice people to work with.
Paul Rodriguez
601XL/Corvair
----- Original Message -----
From: kevinbonds<mailto:kevinbonds@comcast.net>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:21 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of Gravity
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net<mailto:kevinbonds@comcast.net>>
Where can one purchase this carbon fiber landing gear you speak of?
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds<http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds>
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Martin Pohl
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Subject: AW: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of Gravity
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Martin Pohl" <mpohl@pohltec.ch<mailto:mpohl@pohltec.ch>>
Thank you for your CG and empty weight values. I hope to also get an empty
weight of around 720lbs. The Czech version of the Zodiac XL has a
carbonfiber landing gear which is 30 lbs lighter than the aluminium gear. So
I am still very confident...
Cheers
Martin
-----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]Im Auftrag von Jack
Russell
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. Dezember 2005 16:40
An: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Betreff: RE: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of
Gravity
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net<mailto:clojan@sbcglobal.net>>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell"
My empty weight is 712lbs, CG is 264.8.
I'm still not painted yet, so that will add a bit.
Lance sent me his weight and balance as a example and I just did mine
yesterday. I got 740 cg of 311. I am set up about the same as Lance but do
have paint and a full interior. I did some examples with full tanks and two
people180lbs andI can only get 40 lbs luggage for a total wt of 1284lbs. The
problem with this senario is that when the fuel goes to 0 my cg is 479 which
is aft of the 450 limit. I may get a bigger battery for the firewall.
I also expected my WL,WR,WN measurement to be the same as lances' but I
came up with a WR WL of 770 and a WN of -535 which was quite a ways off of
Lance's measurement. I would be interested in others.
Jack Russell -Clovis CA
601 XL Jabiru 3300
Progress update at:
http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html<http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Edge Distances on the 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Paul,
The edge distance is a similar to pitch settings for rivets. Most of
the edge distance issues relate more
to thin materials, that when pulled together by a rivet create a ripple
or stress wave to occur. Too close to the
edge and you eventually will see cracks from each rivet to the edge.
Probably would take a long time.
Same goes for too close a pitch. Eventually you see a crack running
from rivet to rivet because of the
stress wave that circles one rivet affecting the circle of stress at the
next. When you get too close
to the edge, the circle is upset by a broken wave and eventually the
material relaxes or breaks.
The edge distance issue probably has a margin for safety, but that would
depend on the size rivet
and the thickness of material as well as the kind of material you're
working with. 6061 aluminum is
probably the most forgiving of these, where 2024 would not.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Paul Mulwitz wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
>Hi David,
>
>I am pretty new at metal airplane building myself, so I am not sure I
>have the edge distance thing worked out correctly.
>
>First, a 1/8" rivet is around 3 mm in diameter. 2 times that is 6
>mm. This comes out to 4.5 mm from the edge of the hole to the edge
>of the metal since edge distance is measured from the center of the
>rivet hole. An A4 rivet is close to 1/8" and an A5 is just a little
>bigger. My guess for the minimum A5 edge distance is 6 mm.
>
>It gets a little fuzzy when you consider where edge distance
>applies. It seems that when you are putting rivets into an "Angle"
>the distance does apply to the open edge of the angle but not to the
>edge where the bend is. I don't know exactly why that is, but that
>seems to be the case. Perhaps one of the better trained listers can
>address this subject for both of us.
>
>Paul
>XL wings
>do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: quick build 601 XL. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "bill naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
Gary-
Bless you, you were able to say what I couldn't- "Things look so easy we
blow it".
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gower" <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: quick build 601 XL.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
>
> Gary is right, probably is easier for anyone named Gary :-)
>
> But we built a 701 complete and only made one important mistake: The
stabilizer support (dont have the piece number now) where the elevator hinge
is installed, was drilled the wrong side, like looking at a mirror... No
big deal to make a second piece from scratch.
>
> Mi two advises : before drilling, cutting or riveting, be shure you
understand what you are doing and look for the next steps.
> Only a few steps are in this category, yes is important that when we
read a sentence 3 times and still can't grasp the picture, stop and take a
brake, later the picture will be clear, or the inspiration will come easy
from ZAC or the List :-)
>
> Another building "danger" is the excess of confidence. Some things look
so easy to make or assemble that we dont pay enough atention and blow it...
Looking backwards, for me the Kit is on the easy side to build.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower.
> 701 912S
> Now assembling a 601XL...
>
> "Gary A. Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary A. Boothe"
>
> Michial,
>
> Thank you for your service to our country!
>
> When these posts started showing up a few days ago I was tempted to
respond,
> but decided against it as the posters were merely representing their
> well-deserved opinions. My concern, though, was that a prospective builder
> would be dissuaded by these comments. One poster made it sound as though
if
> he, an educated and experienced person, made such mistakes, then ALL
> builders must be having the same problems.
>
> I am purchasing the various kits as I could not afford the entire kit at
> once, and have completed the rudder, horizontal stab, and one wing
(almost)
> with zero mistakes! That's not to say that today may be the day I skrew
up,
> big time. Admittedly, I work at a slow pace, reading each process many
> times before I start, and I never work with distractions. When my 4 yr old
> grandson comes over, I stop. When I read a sentence 3 times and still
can't
> grasp the picture, I stop.
>
> If building is what will bring you pleasure, then jump in - the water's
> fine! I hope that you will have as much pleasure as I! This list is a
> fantastic resource where you will always find the help and support you
need.
>
> Gary Boothe, Cool, Ca
>
> 601HDSTD, WW Corvair Conv. - complete
> Tail Group - complete. Working on Wings...
>
> > I have read several posts that indicate the building process is much
more
> > complicated and time consuming than what is advertised by zenith and
this
> > really scares me away from the "kit build process." About the three
years
> > ago I purchased the rudder for the 701 and was able to finish it with no
> > major problems in about 25 hours, but since then I have been on a three
> > year deployment with the military.
> >
> > I am curious to know how much of the "new builder mistakes and
> > frustrations" might be aleviated by the quick build 601 xl kit? I am a
> > new and timid builder with little and long ago builder experience.
> >
> > Any advice offered would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Mike Pedri,
> > US Army
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays,
> > whatever.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 22
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "bill naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
For all you HD and HDS builders-
I just spent the last 3 days playing with AutoCad and building a proof-of-concept
18" chunk of aileron with RAC servo powered INBOARD aileron trim. My POC
used a flat plate tab, but it can be adapted to an airfoil tab. Pictures and
critical part drawings available, gratis if by e-mail.
Happy New Year.
Bill
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Center wing spar question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
The oval holes are in the wing jigs not in any part of the finished
airframe. I have since disassembled and disposed of the wing jigs as they
are no longer needed after the fuselage is complete.
on 1/1/06 11:38 AM, Carlos Sa at carlosfsa@yahoo.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
>
> Bryan, are you keeping the oval hole?
>
> I ask because I am told bolts in that location should fit snugly.
> Here is some text, written by an aviation consultant with respectable
> credentials (and member of our local EAA chapter) that discusses this:
>
> "A loose joint will allow relative motion (wear and fatigue), will allow
> moisture (corrosion), will cause hardening of the bearing surface (eventual
> cracking), will transmit loads unevenly to the material it is supposed to
> hold (stress cracks) and will allow the bolt to cant sideways in a single
> shear application (cracking under the head of the bolt or thinning a softer
> material, weakening it)."
>
> Complete text here:
> http://www3.sympatico.ca/fhofmann/art_round_hole.html
>
> BTW, the article discusses the black art of drilling round holes (as opposed
> to those pesky triangular ones).
>
>
> Happy New Year, everyone - hope all your rivets are aligned, tail winds (at
> altitude! nose wind near the runway!), all holes be round, and that extra
> hole finds a purpose in life.
>
> Carlos
> CH601-HD
> Building tanks
>
> Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net> wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted
> by: Bryan Martin
>
>
> ...
> The left side and the right side hole patterns were different. I
> ended up using a file to oval out some of the holes in the jigs to make them
> fit.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | quick build 601 XL (long) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Allen Ricks" <allenricks@verizon.net>
Mike,
I think I'm the only one on the list that has the new quick build kit.
There are three others on the West coast that have one, but I have not seen
responses on the list.
I received my QB kit just before Christmas, and have had little time to do
anything with it due to the holidays, kids out of school, bad weather (still
rearranging the garage, as I was not sure the fuselage would fit where I
planned It did) and some other family stuff.
I have not actually seen up close what the standard kit looks like when it
arrives, but from the pictures Ive seen, my kit has a LOT of the work done.
I have been told that about 9500 of the 10,000 holes have been drilled, so
that eliminates a lot of the room for error. A bunch of the holes that are
left to drill are in the rudder kit, which I have already done. (I even
drilled two holes in the wrong place, but a quick e-mail to Nicholas H. let
me know it was not a fatal error).
For those of you with the standard kit, my kit arrived with the fuselage
essentially ready to put on the gear. All drilled, corrosion proofed,
riveted etc. I mean the thing is pretty much done to the point that the
engine could be hung on the firewall, as the studs for the mount are in
place. The leather interior (came with it) is ready to go in. I can
already sit in it and make engine noise, but I wont until its on the gear.
Think that would save any time? ;)
Most, though not all of the remaining pieces have holes drilled in them, so
if they dont line up, youre putting the part in wrong and you need to
check again. If it fits, its probably right, and ready for a quick brush
of Core-tec, cleco, and rivet. The wings were put together on a jig,
drilled, clecod, and taken apart again for shipping, so they are much more
finished than the regular kit as well.
The above being true, there is still a whole lot of work left. I will need
to corrosion proof the wing parts and put them together. Lots of wiring,
plumbing, avionics (what I can afford) engine installation etc. to do. It
also appears that many of the parts have been zinc chromate coated on the
mating surfaces too, so Im not sure how much corrosion proofing I will have
to do.
I know that some feel the QB kit is not a real kit plane building
experience. There are plans builders that think the standard kit is not a
real building experience either. Im 40, and have two kids. I want to
build the plane in my lifetime without having my kids hate me or my wife
divorce me, so I went with the QB kit. Hey, the difference for the QB is a
LOT cheaper than a divorce. I figure however long it takes me to build the
plane, I will be flying YEARS ahead of where I would with the standard kit.
Yes, you can buy a plane to fly right away for less money. It will however,
be MUCH more expensive to fly and maintain. Ive wanted to build since I
was about three, and have been collecting kit aviation magazines since I was
very young. All forms of building, and aircraft rental or ownership for
that matter, have trade offs. The QB kit seemed the best choice for me.
By the way, the quality of the parts and building appears to be excellent.
The rivet lines and spacing are very uniform. Most of the standard builders
would hate me if they saw the QB kit and realized the time it would save.
That being said, it did cost more.
Regards,
Allen Ricks
Beaverton (Portland) OR.
Quick Build link:
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/xl-qbk.html
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michial Pedri <pedfly60@yahoo.com>
I have read several posts that indicate the building process is much more
complicated and time consuming than what is advertised by zenith and this
really scares me away from the "kit build process." About the three years
ago I purchased the rudder for the 701 and was able to finish it with no
major problems in about 25 hours, but since then I have been on a three year
deployment with the military.
I am curious to know how much of the "new builder mistakes and
frustrations" might be aleviated by the quick build 601 xl kit? I am a new
and timid builder with little and long ago builder experience.
Any advice offered would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Mike Pedri,
US Army
Message 25
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| Subject: | 601XL v. 701Cabin Comfort |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Pagan <pdn8r@yahoo.com>
Hello All,
I've been mulling over the 601XL vs. the 701 and have a question about the cabin
size. Yes, I have researched the Zenith website and compared the measurements
but am looking for some real world input. I'm a 6 footer and weigh about 220.
The 601XL seems like it would be a roomier and more comfortable cabin just
from looking at pictures even though the dimensions are not substantially different
than the 701. For my type of flying either model would suit me fine as
far as performance etc. but am concerned about he fit. Thanks in advance for
the input.
Bill Pagan
Florida
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
---------------------------------
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Wing painting jig |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Al, I looked at the same question for a couple six pac's and could only see
one way if the fiberglass tip was removed. Course, with sufficient counter
weight it could be done. Course again, by the time I would have built it and
tweaked all the bugs out of it I could have painted a dozen wings top then bottom.
Sounds like your getting close to looking to lift off again ? Hope so, best
regards, Bill N505WP
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: quick build 601 XL (long) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Allen, what we all can't understand if you've had this kit since before
Christmas why you aren't flying yet? Sounds like a couple all nighters would have
you and it to the airport, Just funning, Hope it comes together well and keep
us posted on how long the QBK really takes, Best regards, Bill N505WP
do not archive
Message 28
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| Subject: | 601XL v. 701Cabin Comfort |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Bill , this has been covered many, many times and is in the archives.
However, at 5'10 and 235lbs there is more then enough room in the 601XL
that I can even wear a large hat. The 701 typically has more headroom
and with the new bubble doors from Zenith the cabin width is a full 44"
the same as the 601XL. Fitting you is not a problem in either plane even
with a passenger of the same size. You should consider what you really
want to do with your plane. The 701 is a special breed and is a STOL
performer. IF the drastic STOL performance of a 701 is unnecessary then
go with the 601XL. Both planes offer an incredible view and the high
wing over the low wing in the view aspect seems negligible. Personal
preference and mission are the lists you should be drawing up to help in
your decision now.
Check out
http://www.frappr.com/zenith601
and
http://www.frappr.com/zenith701
Look for builders and owners in your area and plan for a visit, I have
yet to ever meet a Zenith owner who would not let me have a seat in
there plane. Zenith builders are just the cream of the crop when it come
to a group of friendly people. Plus check out Sun-N-Fun, you are also
more then Welcome to join in on the 2nd annual Webmasters BBQ being held
on Thursday evening April 6th 2006 ! for Zenith builders and owners. Did
I just let a cat out of the bag?
You can also find more information at www.ch601.org and www.ch701.com
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Pagan <pdn8r@yahoo.com>
Hello All,
I've been mulling over the 601XL vs. the 701 and have a question about
the cabin size. Yes, I have researched the Zenith website and compared
the measurements but am looking for some real world input. I'm a 6
footer and weigh about 220. The 601XL seems like it would be a roomier
and more comfortable cabin just from looking at pictures even though the
dimensions are not substantially different than the 701. For my type of
flying either model would suit me fine as far as performance etc. but am
concerned about he fit. Thanks in advance for the input.
Bill Pagan
Florida
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
--
12/30/2005
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: 601XL v. 701Cabin Comfort |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Bill,
There's a world of difference in these two aircraft, but I can say
unequivocally that the 601 is a more comfortable and accommodating
environment for the large guy. Besides, the extremely good view and
performance the XL provides. If you want to go places, the
601 is more of a destination plane. The 701 is world class STOL but
considerably slower, nearer to something like owning a helicopter.
Their both great planes, but are really different breeds. You should
definitively examine your flying experience and the kind of places
you want to go for the one that will do the best job for you.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS with a bias for light cross country at
www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Bill Pagan wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Pagan <pdn8r@yahoo.com>
>
>Hello All,
>
>I've been mulling over the 601XL vs. the 701 and have a question about the cabin
size. Yes, I have researched the Zenith website and compared the measurements
but am looking for some real world input. I'm a 6 footer and weigh about
220. The 601XL seems like it would be a roomier and more comfortable cabin just
from looking at pictures even though the dimensions are not substantially different
than the 701. For my type of flying either model would suit me fine
as far as performance etc. but am concerned about he fit. Thanks in advance for
the input.
>
>
>Bill Pagan
>Florida
>http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
>
>---------------------------------
> Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | quick build 601 XL (long) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Allen Ricks" <allenricks@verizon.net>
Hi Bill,
I figure I'll need at least two long weekends to finish. ;)
Seriously, I tend to be very methodical, so I'm hoping about 500 hours or so
for the airframe.
Less would be even better. Then there's engine, avionics, electrical, and
paint
work to do...
My research before building showed that most people (that kept track) took
about 1000 hours
give or take for the standard build. I'm guessing there is more slop than
people admit when
they leave the shop for a while and stare at the drawings for a couple of
days before proceeding.
Oh well, at least most of the interior is done...
My goal is a year, but safety and family first, so it takes as long as it
takes.
As a comparison, here's a link to Van's QB kit picture. Note that the
fusalage AND the wings are pretty well done.
Van estimates there is about 1000 hours left to do.
http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/rv-7_quickbuild_lg.jpg
Versus the Zenith QB page:
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/xl-qbk.html
Many people don't understand that the small stuff, not the big stuff is what
takes the time.
Allen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: quick build 601 XL (long)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Allen, what we all can't understand if you've had this kit since before
Christmas why you aren't flying yet? Sounds like a couple all nighters would
have
you and it to the airport, Just funning, Hope it comes together well and
keep
us posted on how long the QBK really takes, Best regards, Bill N505WP
do not archive
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: quick build 601 XL (long) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
That's where the ole adage comes from,
"90% complete with 90% to go".
We did the slow & slower build kits. Yep kits..
Partial RV-4 kit with plans and John Harmon parts
and plans for the HRII. No pre-punch or located holes.
Read & blend (parts & plans), cut & fit, measure & mark,
drill & deburr, re-read plans (2 sets) & blend, call for advise,
re-read the plans and come back tomorrow.
There is always a tomorrow. 8*)
HRII N561FS KABONG Do Not Archive
> I'm guessing there is more slop than
> people admit when
> they leave the shop for a while and stare at the drawings for a couple of
> days before proceeding.
>
> Oh well, at least most of the interior is done...
> As a comparison, here's a link to Van's QB kit picture. Note that the
> fusalage AND the wings are pretty well done.
> Van estimates there is about 1000 hours left to do.
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | quick build 601 XL (long) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
One big difference with Van's kit is the solid dimpled rivet
process. That is a lot slower than the blind rivets used on the Zodiac.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
At 05:24 PM 1/1/2006, you wrote:
>Van estimates there is about 1000 hours left to do.
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Re: Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of Gravity |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
When I inquired about the Czech gear, Chip said he would not sell it, so I
decided to go with the Grove gear as it is considerably lighter than the ZAC
gear and requires less modification for installation than the composite. .
But, If the Czech gear is now available, I will reconsider, as I have not
yet ordered gear. My only concern, assuming the Czech composite is now
available, is just how much more difficult is the installation, especially
with the fuselage already essentially completed - any clues?
----- Original Message -----
From: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of Gravity
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
>
> Kevin, I bought my composite gear (not sure it's carbon fiber) from
Czech Aircraft Works. (aircraft@czaw.cz<mailto:aircraft@czaw.cz>) I got the
legs, saddles, wheels, brakes, tires, etc. from them. Each leg complete
weighed in at around 12.5 pounds. My first contact was with Chip Irwin,
then with Marketa Durdakova. What with the currency fluctuations, I
wouldn't know what the price is now, but it's comparable to Grove's prices.
Very nice people to work with.
>
> Paul Rodriguez
> 601XL/Corvair
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: kevinbonds<mailto:kevinbonds@comcast.net>
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:21 PM
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of
Gravity
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds"
<kevinbonds@comcast.net<mailto:kevinbonds@comcast.net>>
>
> Where can one purchase this carbon fiber landing gear you speak of?
>
> Kevin Bonds
>
> Nashville TN
>
> 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
>
> Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
>
>
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds<http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds>
>
>
>
> do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Martin
Pohl
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: AW: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of
Gravity
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Martin Pohl"
<mpohl@pohltec.ch<mailto:mpohl@pohltec.ch>>
>
> Thank you for your CG and empty weight values. I hope to also get an
empty
> weight of around 720lbs. The Czech version of the Zodiac XL has a
> carbonfiber landing gear which is 30 lbs lighter than the aluminium
gear. So
> I am still very confident...
>
> Cheers
> Martin
>
> -----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
> Von:
owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]Im Auftrag von Jack
> Russell
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. Dezember 2005 16:40
> An: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Betreff: RE: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL: Your Empty weight / Center of
> Gravity
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell
<clojan@sbcglobal.net<mailto:clojan@sbcglobal.net>>
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell"
>
> My empty weight is 712lbs, CG is 264.8.
>
> I'm still not painted yet, so that will add a bit.
>
> Lance sent me his weight and balance as a example and I just did mine
> yesterday. I got 740 cg of 311. I am set up about the same as Lance
but do
> have paint and a full interior. I did some examples with full tanks and
two
> people180lbs andI can only get 40 lbs luggage for a total wt of
1284lbs. The
> problem with this senario is that when the fuel goes to 0 my cg is 479
which
> is aft of the 450 limit. I may get a bigger battery for the firewall.
> I also expected my WL,WR,WN measurement to be the same as lances' but
I
> came up with a WR WL of 770 and a WN of -535 which was quite a ways off
of
> Lance's measurement. I would be interested in others.
>
>
>
> Jack Russell -Clovis CA
> 601 XL Jabiru 3300
> Progress update at:
>
http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html<http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Nav/Strobe wire routing. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
I would like to drill holes in the rear ribs of my XL to route the
wiring for nav/strobe lights. My problem is I don't know where to
locate the holes.
Can anyone tell me the rules for where to locate small new holes in
wing ribs? Is it just a matter of finding a spot with a lot of
distance from edges and other holes?
Thanks,
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 35
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|
Received-SPF: none (mgr1.xmission.com: 166.70.39.121 is neither permitted nor denied
by domain of craigandjean.com) client-ip=166.70.39.121; envelope-from=craig@craigandjean.com;
helo=TheTCCraig;
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
The frapper map appears to have been depopulated. Aside from me it appears
that a lot of other people are missing too. It says there are 203 members
but there sure aren't 200 flags on the map. I know that not everyone lives
in North America but there isn't that many members living in other
countries. Anyone know what happened?
http://www.frappr.com/zenith601
-- Craig
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | 601XL v. 701Cabin Comfort |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
I was going to point you at the 601 and 701 members maps to find planes in
Florida. But it looks like something is wrong with at least the 601 map.
Also Florida is a "long" state. But tell us where you are located and I'll
bet you can find an xl and 701 to sit in. With this size of an investment
you could afford to fly to Mexico, MO and sit in the factory demos.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Pagan
Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL v. 701Cabin Comfort
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Pagan <pdn8r@yahoo.com>
Hello All,
I've been mulling over the 601XL vs. the 701 and have a question about the
cabin size. Yes, I have researched the Zenith website and compared the
measurements but am looking for some real world input. I'm a 6 footer and
weigh about 220. The 601XL seems like it would be a roomier and more
comfortable cabin just from looking at pictures even though the dimensions
are not substantially different than the 701. For my type of flying either
model would suit me fine as far as performance etc. but am concerned about
he fit. Thanks in advance for the input.
Bill Pagan
Florida
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
---------------------------------
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays,
whatever.
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | quick build 601 XL (long) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Another big question is what engine you will choose.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Allen Ricks
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: quick build 601 XL (long)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Allen Ricks"
--> <allenricks@verizon.net>
Hi Bill,
I figure I'll need at least two long weekends to finish. ;)
Seriously, I tend to be very methodical, so I'm hoping about 500 hours or so
for the airframe.
Less would be even better. Then there's engine, avionics, electrical, and
paint work to do...
My research before building showed that most people (that kept track) took
about 1000 hours give or take for the standard build. I'm guessing there is
more slop than people admit when they leave the shop for a while and stare
at the drawings for a couple of days before proceeding.
Oh well, at least most of the interior is done...
My goal is a year, but safety and family first, so it takes as long as it
takes.
As a comparison, here's a link to Van's QB kit picture. Note that the
fusalage AND the wings are pretty well done.
Van estimates there is about 1000 hours left to do.
http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/rv-7_quickbuild_lg.jpg
Versus the Zenith QB page:
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/xl-qbk.html
Many people don't understand that the small stuff, not the big stuff is what
takes the time.
Allen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: quick build 601 XL (long)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Allen, what we all can't understand if you've had this kit since before
Christmas why you aren't flying yet? Sounds like a couple all nighters would
have you and it to the airport, Just funning, Hope it comes together well
and keep us posted on how long the QBK really takes, Best regards, Bill
N505WP do not archive
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Nav/Strobe wire routing. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
This won't help you locate the holes but some builders run a piece of PVC
pipe from root to tip to make pulling future wires (adding or replacing)
easier.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz
Subject: Zenith-List: Nav/Strobe wire routing.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
--> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
I would like to drill holes in the rear ribs of my XL to route the wiring
for nav/strobe lights. My problem is I don't know where to locate the
holes.
Can anyone tell me the rules for where to locate small new holes in wing
ribs? Is it just a matter of finding a spot with a lot of distance from
edges and other holes?
Thanks,
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 39
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Allen Ricks" <allenricks@verizon.net>
Hi Craig,
I noticed this the other day too.
Hit the button at the bottom that says "show 50 more markers" a few times.
That should get them back.
Allen
do not archive.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Subject: Zenith-List: 601 frapper map
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
The frapper map appears to have been depopulated. Aside from me it appears
that a lot of other people are missing too. It says there are 203 members
but there sure aren't 200 flags on the map. I know that not everyone lives
in North America but there isn't that many members living in other
countries. Anyone know what happened?
http://www.frappr.com/zenith601
-- Craig
Message 40
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Yep, that worked. Odd, I remember visiting the map and seeing all the pins.
Now I just have to figure out why I can't log-in to update my entry.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Allen Ricks
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 frapper map
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Allen Ricks"
--> <allenricks@verizon.net>
Hi Craig,
I noticed this the other day too.
Hit the button at the bottom that says "show 50 more markers" a few times.
That should get them back.
Allen
do not archive.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Subject: Zenith-List: 601 frapper map
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
--> <craig@craigandjean.com>
The frapper map appears to have been depopulated. Aside from me it appears
that a lot of other people are missing too. It says there are 203 members
but there sure aren't 200 flags on the map. I know that not everyone lives
in North America but there isn't that many members living in other
countries. Anyone know what happened?
http://www.frappr.com/zenith601
-- Craig
Message 41
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "bill naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
All-
For all those who are interested in my aileron trim experiment, I'm having
troubles sending pictures tonight through my ISP, probably due to the holiday.
Hang in there, I'll try to re-send when the arteries are unclogged.
Bill
Message 42
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|
"rw@wittco.net" <wittco@656.org>,
"Raymond L. Miller" <Raymondm@alaska.com>, <MElrod3732@aol.com>,
"Martin Nielsen" <mmnpgd@hotmail.com>, "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>,
"Jim Audette" <JAudette@republic-financial.com>,
"James Sagerser" <alaskajim@cox.net>, "Henry Hill" <hohill@alltel.net>,
"Glenn" <wglennmartin@sbcglobal.net>,
"Gail Cunningham" <gailbabe1@aol.com>,
"Fletcher, Terry" <FletcherT@pginw.com>,
"Doug Stuiber" <dougstuiber@aol.com>, <djco@eoni.com>,
"CARL VAUGHN" <car_vau@msn.com>, "Bruce Hood" <bhood@hsnp.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
BlankI have update my site with new pictures. First page is a little different
and updated pictures are under "MORE PICTURES OF MY BIRD AND NEW ENGINE".
Well It's finally about ready, adjust the prop, a little safety wire, odds and
ends, ground run it for about 20 hours and have my friends over for a cook out
and (friendly, I hope) inspection. Then it's time to call FAA.
Larry Martin, www.skyhawg.com
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: ISP Problems |
identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message
has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label
similar future email. If you have any questions, see
the administrator of that system for details.
Content preview: Hey Bill, Feel free to post them on my site if you like
Rob http://ch640.iahu.ca [...]
Content analysis details: (-4.4 points, 5.0 required)
-1.8 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP
0.0 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert St.Denis" <rob@iahu.ca>
Hey Bill,
Feel free to post them on my site if you like
Rob
http://ch640.iahu.ca
bill naumuk wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "bill naumuk" <billn@velocity.net>
>
> All-
> For all those who are interested in my aileron trim experiment, I'm having
troubles sending pictures tonight through my ISP, probably due to the holiday.
> Hang in there, I'll try to re-send when the arteries are unclogged.
> Bill
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 44
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| Subject: | quick build 601 XL (long) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Allen Ricks" <allenricks@verizon.net>
Craig,
Not sure yet. I'm leaning towards the Jabiru. It seems
to be the best fit. Really expensive. The Rotax is expensive
to buy AND expensive to maintain. The Lycoming O-235 is expensive
to buy and heavy.
I want something very reliable that has a well
sorted install kit so the auto conversion are out for me. I know
there is a contengency of Corvair proponents, but the engine is a
little on the heavy side, and if I were going heavy I'd lean
towards a rebuilt O-235 instead.
The Jabiru is installed in the factory demo plane, and at 800+ hours it has
more total time than any single install of most of the auto engines have.
The Jabiru is finally getting enough of an install base that I think it will
be around for a while.
That being said, I will wait until the very last minute to make a choice on
engine and avionics, as things seem to be changing at a rapid pace.
In avionics the Dynon with the big screen and the engine guages in it looks
pretty
good. Wonder what we'll get a year from now?
Allen
Another big question is what engine you will choose.
-- Craig
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL v. 701Cabin Comfort |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
Mark
You have took the words right out of my mouth. You actually said it much
better than I would have.
I originally went to the Zenith factory to look at the 601XL and didn't like
the way that you had to climb into the 601. That's just me. They showed me the
701 and my initial reaction was it was too small (much like a toy), then I
saw the 801 and took a test fight in it. Nick took my wife and I up for a flight
and I immediately fell in love with the size and handling. I scheduled the
rudder workshop for the 801 in Oct 94.
My wife and I built the rudder and was ecstatic at how easy it was( we all
know how good the rudder draings are compared to the rest of the kit). I went
home and had to decide whether to order the kit or not. I wanted to be able to
fly from my own property and decided to clear land and see where I could get
the longest strip in line with the prevailing westerly wind. I was able to get
a
1300 ft grass strip with power lines on one side and trees on the other.
I still wasn't completely convinced that the 801 was my best choice for my
1st build. I looked again at the info pack that Zenith sent me home with and
looked hard at the 701 as my 1st build. I felt that the 801 was perfect for me
(was used to flying with 4 seats in Pipers and Cessnas) but it was so slow and
I
felt that I would be disappointed with that. Looking at the 701 at roughly
1/2 the price I felt that I would loose the 2 extra seats and almost get the
same speed. I could always build another plane at some later date if I chose to.
I was comfortable with the decision and called Shirley in the end of November
to place my order. I was ready to build a plane and Shirley told me that there
was a 10-12 week lead time for the kit, but would try to get the tail out
sooner. Received my first crate at the end of January and started building a
CH-701 on 2/8/05. My rudder, elevator and stabilizer was done by 2/20/05 and
I
had to wait for the rest of the kit. March 4th the Yellow freight driver
dropped off the big crate with the rest of the plane.
I am now built, painted and almost ready for my DAR inspection scheduled for
1/11/05. The building has been a hoot and loved the experience. All the guy's
on the list have been great and very informative. THANK YOU EVERYONE! While
most of the info I got off the list has been thru following other peoples
questions and problems, When I have had a specific question I have quickly gotten
an answer.
I have not had to have too many calls to Zenith (a few in the beginning to
Nick and then a couple to Roger). They have always been quick to answer my
questions. The drawings took a while to get used to reading and the info is not
always where you would expect to find it, but for the most part the info is there
if you look hard enough. The photo guide has been a big help but as some have
mentioned don't rely on them and ALWAYS verify things with the plans. I have
made some parts over because I didn't look ahead to the next couple of steps
but that's all part of the building experience. I have a lot of respect for the
scratch builders out there. I wouldn't have the patience to fabricate every
part.
I found what adds time to the building process is when you add your own
stuff. I chose to install Larry's wing tip access doors, additional fuselage oil
canning stiffeners, as well as the additional rear fuselage door ( a must in my
opinon). I installed an electric flap operator and taxi, landing lights in the
leading edge of the slats (that was fun). I also picked up some century 3
auto pilot servos from E-bay. I have them installed for roll and pitch and
control them from my stick grip. ( no actual autopilot head yet) I call it my "poor
mans autopilot". It should allow me to point the plane in the direction that
I want it to go and be able to leave the stick alone.
To those who are contemplating their 1st build I highly recommend a Zenith
kit. I found the Rudder workshop was the best way to start to immerse yourself
into aircraft building. Zenith has been great as well as Danny and Zaneta from
Skyshops. I bought the firewall forward package from them. They have been very
helpful with my questions as the Czechworks drawings also leave a lot to be
desired. They have updated their parts but not the drawings.
I didn't plan on writing this novel but I felt that those lurking out ther
would appreciate the info.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX CH-701/912S
just total my builders log-1161.5 hrs
In a message dated 1/1/2006 7:44:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,
zodierocket@hsfx.ca writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Bill , this has been covered many, many times and is in the archives.
However, at 5'10 and 235lbs there is more then enough room in the 601XL
that I can even wear a large hat. The 701 typically has more headroom
and with the new bubble doors from Zenith the cabin width is a full 44"
the same as the 601XL. Fitting you is not a problem in either plane even
with a passenger of the same size. You should consider what you really
want to do with your plane. The 701 is a special breed and is a STOL
performer. IF the drastic STOL performance of a 701 is unnecessary then
go with the 601XL. Both planes offer an incredible view and the high
wing over the low wing in the view aspect seems negligible. Personal
preference and mission are the lists you should be drawing up to help in
your decision now.
Check out
http://www.frappr.com/zenith601
and
http://www.frappr.com/zenith701
Look for builders and owners in your area and plan for a visit, I have
yet to ever meet a Zenith owner who would not let me have a seat in
there plane. Zenith builders are just the cream of the crop when it come
to a group of friendly people. Plus check out Sun-N-Fun, you are also
more then Welcome to join in on the 2nd annual Webmasters BBQ being held
on Thursday evening April 6th 2006 ! for Zenith builders and owners. Did
I just let a cat out of the bag?
You can also find more information at www.ch601.org and www.ch701.com
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: ISP Problems identified this incoming email as |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt Dralle" <dralle@matronics.com>
Send them to:
pictures@matronics.com
and I'll put them up on the Matronics Photoshare page.
Matt
-------------------- m2f --------------------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228#228
-------------------- m2f --------------------
Message 47
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
That's great Larry, wish you the best! Nothing llike a hog between your legs
or should I say in front of you.
Let us know how your inspection goes, I have one set for 1/11/05
Bob Spudis
In a message dated 1/1/2006 11:29:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
lrm01@centurytel.net writes:
BlankI have update my site with new pictures. First page is a little
different and updated pictures are under "MORE PICTURES OF MY BIRD AND NEW ENGINE".
Well It's finally about ready, adjust the prop, a little safety wire, odds
and ends, ground run it for about 20 hours and have my friends over for a cook
out and (friendly, I hope) inspection. Then it's time to call FAA.
Message 48
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| Subject: | quick build 601 XL (long) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
If I were going the manufactured-engine route then I would choose the Jabiru
too. I think it is telling that Zenith switched from the Rotax to the
Jabiru. And going with a direct-drive engine can only lead to less trouble
than choosing an engine with a re-drive. And the XL FWF kit for it is
getting better and better.
That being said I'm going the Corvair route. Heck, I've *gone* the Corvair
route - I shipped my parts and myself to Florida and helped build my engine
at William Wynne's hanger and test run it. If I had unlimited funds I don't
know what I would choose. But having bought my "kit" 80% complete from
another builder I see the engine and control panel as the two areas were I
get to innovate (or over-design).
As you say you don't have to make a decision for a while but do remember
that different motor mounts use different studs on the firewall. Anyway keep
an eye on the Corvair world as you build. Right now you can get complete
rebuilt engines for $6000. And motor mounts, nose bowls, exhaust and intake
manifolds are all available for the XL. Yes, they all cost but the
difference between the Corvair and Jabiru 3300 is still going to be $10,000.
We need to get a 601XL/3300 next to a 601XL/Corvair to compare weight and
performance.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Allen Ricks
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: quick build 601 XL (long)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Allen Ricks"
--> <allenricks@verizon.net>
Craig,
Not sure yet. I'm leaning towards the Jabiru. It seems to be the best fit.
Really expensive. The Rotax is expensive to buy AND expensive to maintain.
The Lycoming O-235 is expensive to buy and heavy.
I want something very reliable that has a well sorted install kit so the
auto conversion are out for me. I know there is a contengency of Corvair
proponents, but the engine is a little on the heavy side, and if I were
going heavy I'd lean towards a rebuilt O-235 instead.
The Jabiru is installed in the factory demo plane, and at 800+ hours it has
more total time than any single install of most of the auto engines have.
The Jabiru is finally getting enough of an install base that I think it will
be around for a while.
That being said, I will wait until the very last minute to make a choice on
engine and avionics, as things seem to be changing at a rapid pace.
In avionics the Dynon with the big screen and the engine guages in it looks
pretty good. Wonder what we'll get a year from now?
Allen
Another big question is what engine you will choose.
-- Craig
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re:Wing painting jig |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "T. Graziano" <tonyplane@bellsouth.net>
The way I painted my wings was to suspend the wing from the tie down ring at one
end and from the spar at the other end using heavy gauge wire. The wing then
stands almost, but not quite, nose up. You do have to get under the wing to
get to the aft spar and be either tall or use a small step to get to the L.E.
I painted my airplane in separate pieces in a 10x20 closed end car tent I picked
up at Costco for about $150 U.S. I used a fan with filter to pump in filtered
air and to keep the tent pressurized. I used a HVLP spray gun with a separate
2 Qt. pressure can with separate hoses going to the spray head so I could
paint up for the bottom fuselage and the aft spar. I suspended other parts
from the tent ceiling for painting.The paint I used was Dupont Nason Ful-thane
2k Urethane auto paint with its associated primer. Poly is the best, but that
stuff can kill you if you do not use a full fresh air respirator.Tony Graziano
601XL; N493TG--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" <armyret@one-eleven.net>
Anyone designed a jig, stand, or whatever that can be used to hold the XL wing
for painting? Should be able to rotate wing during painting process. Other attributes
would be, easy to construct, cheap, etc. Am I asking the impossible?
Al Young
XL
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: 601 frapper map |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
They only show 50. If you click on the links that says shoe 50 more it
will. You can continue until all are shown it you wish.
A frappr moderator
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: 601 frapper map
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> The frapper map appears to have been depopulated. Aside from me it appears
> that a lot of other people are missing too. It says there are 203 members
> but there sure aren't 200 flags on the map. I know that not everyone lives
> in North America but there isn't that many members living in other
> countries. Anyone know what happened?
>
> http://www.frappr.com/zenith601
>
> -- Craig
>
>
>
Message 51
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
If you'll notice it is showing 50 of 202 member, down bottom there is a link
to show 50 more.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Subject: Zenith-List: 601 frapper map
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
The frapper map appears to have been depopulated. Aside from me it appears
that a lot of other people are missing too. It says there are 203 members
but there sure aren't 200 flags on the map. I know that not everyone lives
in North America but there isn't that many members living in other
countries. Anyone know what happened?
http://www.frappr.com/zenith601
-- Craig
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