Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:02 AM - Canopy instalation (ERIC TINGEY)
2. 05:25 AM - First Flight (Beckman, Rick)
3. 06:03 AM - Re: 601 XL Autopilot? (Don Mountain)
4. 06:03 AM - Re: First Flight (Jean-Paul Roy)
5. 06:31 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 36 Msgs - 01/04/06 (Gig Giacona)
6. 06:32 AM - First Flight - An opposing point of view (Condon, Philip M.)
7. 07:02 AM - Re: First Flight (Garrou, Douglas)
8. 07:11 AM - Re: 601 XL Autopilot? ()
9. 07:31 AM - Re: First FlightFirst Flight (Tommy Walker)
10. 08:19 AM - Re: 601 XL Autopilot? (T. Graziano)
11. 08:46 AM - Re: First Flight (T. Graziano)
12. 08:55 AM - Re: Canopy instalation (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
13. 09:13 AM - Re: 601 XL Autopilot? (Mike Fothergill)
14. 09:27 AM - Re: First Flight (Paul Mulwitz)
15. 09:45 AM - Paint Drying? (Don Mountain)
16. 09:51 AM - Re: Re: 601 XL Autopilot? (Don Mountain)
17. 10:04 AM - Re: Paint Drying? (Stanley Challgren)
18. 10:15 AM - Re: First Flight (japhillipsga@aol.com)
19. 10:23 AM - Re: Paint Drying? (Randy L. Thwing)
20. 10:49 AM - Re: First Flight - An opposing point of view (japhillipsga@aol.com)
21. 11:56 AM - Re: paint drying/brave?fellow (Zed Smith)
22. 12:38 PM - Re: First Flight - An opposing point of view (Don Walker)
23. 12:38 PM - Re: Canopy instalation (Larry McFarland)
24. 12:54 PM - Re: First Flight - An opposing point of view (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
25. 02:12 PM - Re: First Flight (Craig Payne)
26. 03:01 PM - Re: Tach RPM error (Thilo Kind)
27. 03:01 PM - Re: Scapbuilding help (Thilo Kind)
28. 06:15 PM - Re: 701 pitot tube (John Flavin)
29. 07:33 PM - Re: Paint Drying? (Bob Unternaehrer)
30. 10:22 PM - Re: First Flight (NYTerminat@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Canopy instalation |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ERIC TINGEY <etingey@rogers.com>
List,
I'm looking for information on how to cut and fit the canopy.
Eric Tingey.
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick" <Rick.Beckman@atk.com>
=09
It's me, again, about this first flight thing.
I sure want to thank all of you for your input on this. What I left out
of the first post is that the plane is not finished, but I only need a hundred
hours or so to " git 'er done "! All that's left is the wiring, canopy, seats,
and paint. This is an XL with a Jabiru 3300. The main runway at KLXT
in Lee's Summit, MO, is 4015 ft. long, so it should allow a few hops and rather
fast taxiing.
As for my Dr., he's just looking out for me, that's all. My wife? well,
that's another story. She likes to fly with me and is learning to land and navigate---no
desire to get her ticket, though. She does, however, need to know
how to fly and land. I told her that if the Good Lord calls me home while we are
up, there's no need fot both of us to go! This bird is going to be our vacation
transportation to parts, as of yet, unknown. Few things in this world scare
me, such as first flight, but I don't intend to tempt destruction, either.
I do need more hours and definitely more time in this type. I've been told that
ZAC might work out something for a little more time in the Demo. I'll have to
check and see as the time to lift off gets closer.
Again, I want to thank all of you that responded to this. These types
of responses are what make this site so SUPER!!
I hope and Pray that all of you have a happy and safe New
Year !
Rick Beckman
Midwest Mudworks
729 MSL and sinking
www.sharbo.us/thebird
Do NOT archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL Autopilot? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
Thanks very much Mike. Thats what I wanted to hear. Does any of the unit get
installed in the wings before the top skin is riveted on? Or is all of the
unit, servos and stuff built into the airframe? At what point of construction
should I be buying the unit? I have the tail all done, and I am now working
on the wings, getting ready to put the top skins on them. I have not started
the airframe yet. What drives the altitude control unit? I am planning
to use the Dynon EFIS also.
Don
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill
>Hi Don;
>
>I have the Trio AP & altitude hold in my
>CH-601HDS that is coupled to the
>Garmin 295. They work very well. It is a
>very light system ,easy to install and setup.
>
>Mike
>CH-601HDS 1200+ hours
>UHS Spinners
---------------------------------
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
Good day. Here is a link to an article written by Chris Heintz about the
first flight. Hope you find it interesting.
Jean-Paul
http://exp-aircraft.com/library/heintz/testing.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Beckman, Rick" <Rick.Beckman@atk.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick" <Rick.Beckman@atk.com>
>
> =09
> It's me, again, about this first flight thing.
> I sure want to thank all of you for your input on this. What I
left out of the first post is that the plane is not finished, but I only
need a hundred hours or so to " git 'er done "! All that's left is the
wiring, canopy, seats, and paint. This is an XL with a Jabiru 3300.
The main runway at KLXT in Lee's Summit, MO, is 4015 ft. long, so it should
allow a few hops and rather fast taxiing.
> As for my Dr., he's just looking out for me, that's all. My wife?
well, that's another story. She likes to fly with me and is learning to land
and navigate---no desire to get her ticket, though. She does, however, need
to know how to fly and land. I told her that if the Good Lord calls me home
while we are up, there's no need fot both of us to go! This bird is going to
be our vacation transportation to parts, as of yet, unknown. Few things in
this world scare me, such as first flight, but I don't intend to tempt
destruction, either. I do need more hours and definitely more time in this
type. I've been told that ZAC might work out something for a little more
time in the Demo. I'll have to check and see as the time to lift off gets
closer.
> Again, I want to thank all of you that responded to this. These
types of responses are what make this site so SUPER!!
> I hope and Pray that all of you have a happy and
safe New Year !
>
>
Rick Beckman
>
Midwest Mudworks
>
729 MSL and sinking
>
>
www.sharbo.us/thebird
>
> Do NOT archive
>
>
Message 5
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"Zenith-List Digest List" <zenith-list-digest@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 36 Msgs - 01/04/06 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
You are right, I can pretty much guarantee that you would break of the Pitot
tube if you attach it now. As far as making sure you don't loose the tubes
into the wing just remember the immortal words of any home builder, "Duct
Tape is your friend."
Gig G
Do Not Archive
> Time: 07:09:41 AM PST US
> From: doug kandle <d_kandle@velocitus.net>
> Subject: Zenith-List: 701 pitot tube
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: doug kandle <d_kandle@velocitus.net>
>
> I am getting ready to rivet up the wing with the pitot tube on
> it. It appears to me that once I attach the pitot tube it will be
> hard to move the wing around without running the risk of breaking off the
> tube.
> Did anyone have a good solution for this problem? Is there some
> simple way to make this tube/plate assembly removable? I also worry
> that if I leave the tube unattached and plan to rivet in the
> tube/plate later, that I will loose the tubing inside the wing and
> will be unable to recover it without cutting a hole in the wing.
> Are my concerns warranted, or should I just connect and rivet up the
> pitot system and hope I don't bump it while finishing up the plane?
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | First Flight - An opposing point of view |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Condon, Philip M." <pcondon@mitre.org>
Many tail wheel instructors say this crow hopping self training method
is "for the birds" and not the best way to train yourself. Consider the
point or phase where you are most likely to get into trouble in the
flight phase (landing) -- and now place yourself there with hi speed
taxi tests, with "p" factor and right rudder (Take of power), and
possible winds now try to teach yourself correct, and fast enough
rudder responses to keep yourself straight on the runway. It can be
done, but you are placing yourself in a known hazard zone of flight,
with little initial training - only to train yourself....? . Only a
word of caution. There are two schools of thought on this issue,
hearing everyone say to crow-hop is a good teaching method needs a
thorough introspection with ALL the facts....
RV-4, Cessna-140, Cessna 150 tail conversion, CUB & RV-8 builder....
(All tail wheel airplanes.....)
Phil N41RV & N800RV
.......................................................................
...............
If you have a real desire to test fly your plane, you can do it...but
you must
prepare yourself. some good advice has been given about doing that.
Regarding taxi testing, I recommend lots of it with gradually
increasing speeds
to the point of taxiing at steady speedwith the nose wheel up or the
tail up.
I personally think High speed taxiing is good to build up to in a tail
dragger.
But work up to this in steps. These designs are solid in their controls
and
manageable as you get a feel for them with increasing taxi runs with
increased
speed...20, 30, 40, 50..up to 60+ in a tail dragger. Do numerous runs
at
each speed until you are confident of the feel of controls.
Faa Advice is to test ground handling throughout the range. I wanted
to know
what mine was going to feel like as it hit the ground, so I taxi tested
to 70
mph numerous times with nothing but solid control feel in the HDS... by
then
I had no fears of flying the plane. don Walker HDS taildragger 365
hrs
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Hoak<mailto:planejim@bellsouth.net>
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" <dgarrou@hunton.com>
I'm recently divorced, so I'll test fly it in exchange for travel expenses. :)
Fine print: Free test-pilot offer void where prohibited by law, and contingent
upon (a) satisfactory completion of lengthy preflight inspection and (b) use
of an aircraft-specific, rather than auto-conversion, powerplant.
(ducking.....)
Doug Garrou
Project 801
www.garrou.com
p.s. I take it back, if you can squeeze one of Ben Haas's engines on there, I'll
also fly behind that.
p.p.s. Gotta dump a doctor who gives flying, rather than medical, advice, and
who passes along said commentary to your spouse. That's just incredibly subversive
and must violate some medical oath he or she took somewhere. As the Three
Stooges would say, "The Noive!"
p.p.p.s. With respect to the spouse, obviously I am in no position to offer guidance.
-----Original Message-----
Time: 11:14:24 AM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight
From: "Beckman, Rick" <Rick.Beckman@atk.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick" <Rick.Beckman@atk.com>
Happy New Year, All Y'all !
I have a question: How many of you used a test pilot on the first
flight?
My young bride wants me to give up that once in a lifetime event.
So does my Doctor. I think he's the one prompting her to such thoughts.
Any thoughts worth reading?
Message 8
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| Subject: | 601 XL Autopilot? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <pstafford@attglobal.net>
Don,
I have installed the Trio roll and pitch servos in my 601, and they are
placed just behind the torque tube and to the pilot side of the fuselage
(roll) and just aft of the stiffener 6B1-7 (pitch). I will send you some
photos if you contact me off list. You can buy the servos separately - I
installed mine a few weeks ago, and I am 99% done with the project. One
thing, I split the baggage floor 6B16 -1 into front and rear halves to allow
me access for inspection a servicing of the servos/controls.
Pat S.
601XL Jabiru 3300
Patrick M. Stafford, Ph.D.
Director of Medical Physics
New4901 Lang, NE
Albuquerque, NM 87109
505-842-8171
pstafford@attglobal.net
Mexico Cancer Center
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Mountain
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 XL Autopilot?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
Thanks very much Mike. Thats what I wanted to hear. Does any of the unit
get installed in the wings before the top skin is riveted on? Or is all of
the unit, servos and stuff built into the airframe? At what point of
construction should I be buying the unit? I have the tail all done, and I
am now working on the wings, getting ready to put the top skins on them.
I have not started the airframe yet. What drives the altitude control
unit? I am planning to use the Dynon EFIS also.
Don
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill
>Hi Don;
>
>I have the Trio AP & altitude hold in my
>CH-601HDS that is coupled to the
>Garmin 295. They work very well. It is a
>very light system ,easy to install and setup.
>
>Mike
>CH-601HDS 1200+ hours
>UHS Spinners
---------------------------------
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: First FlightFirst Flight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
I talked with Roger at the factory a few months ago and he said I could come
out for a few hours familiarization flight during a weekend. He suggested I
schedule it a week before I was ready to fly my 701. He said that he had
done this for several builders to satisfy their insurance company. $60.00
per hour.
I am tentatively scheduling a date at the end of March, and weather
permitting, I will try go get 3-4 hrs over a Saturday and Sunday.
They will give you a demo flight free during the week, and I put two 30
minute flights in my log book, once when I flew during the rudder workshop,
and one when I was passing through town and called ahead and scheduled
another demo flight.
Regarding first flight, my building buddy and I are going to flip a coin and
whoever wins (or loses, based on your perspective) will take the first
flight.
Regards,
Tommy Walker in Alabama
Do Not Archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | re: 601 XL Autopilot? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "T. Graziano" <tonyplane@bellsouth.net>
I have a Trio EZ Pilot II in my XL. It receives input from my Garmin 295.
Works great. No problems in installation. Simple hookup to the Garmin NMEA
0183 data stream. It does not have altituude hold. I use minor throttle
adjustments and/or trim to hold altitude.
Tony Graziano
601XL N493TG
-------------------------------------
Time: 02:13:25 PM PST US
From: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: 601 XL Autopilot?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
I have flown in another plane that had an autopilot, and recognize the
usefullness
it would provide on long cross-country trips. I am considering installing
one in my 601 XL, and wonder if anyone else has done so. What sort of
trouble
they had, and what equipment they installed. I would like to have both
altitude and horizontal control. I now use a Garmin handheld 295 GPS, and
wonder if that can be used to drive the autopilot from the current route
being
flown. Do any of them allow this?
Don
601 XL, tail done, working on wings
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "T. Graziano" <tonyplane@bellsouth.net>
For what its worth.
I flew the maiden flight of my XL in July. I had always planned to do it.
I had built it so I was going to fly it. I did not have any doubts that it
comformined to the drawing requirements and weight and balance, fuel flow
tests, taxi runs, engine runs, etc. were ok. I did not make any crow hops
before first flight, just enough speed to get it a little light to make sure
nothing appeared to be amiss or strange. I never read of any bad habits
associated with the XL and with a lot of them flying I suspected no unusual
flight characteristics. I was current and reviewed the flight with my EAA
chapter flight advisor. I am glad I made the first flight - a really neat
thing to remember.
The XL is easy to fly.
Tony Graziano
601XL N493TG
------------------------------
Time: 11:14:24 AM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight
From: "Beckman, Rick" <Rick.Beckman@atk.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick" <Rick.Beckman@atk.com>
=09
=09
Happy New Year, All Y'all !
I have a question: How many of you used a test pilot on the
first
flight?
My young bride wants me to give up that once in a lifetime
event.
So does my Doctor. I think he's the one prompting her to such
thoughts.
Any thoughts worth reading?
Rick
Message 12
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| Subject: | Canopy instalation |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Eric I have built an HDS (sideways opening) and have just finished a
forward opening canopy on an RV 7.
Here a few of the basics when working with plexi aimed mainly around
avoiding the biggest issue...i.e cracking.
Cutting and grinding...Do not try to use any kind of saw with plexi,
instead use a metal cutting or gringing disk on an electric drill or
angle grinder. The disk is will make very nice cuts as it grinds/melts
its way along the canopy.
The above tools are a little big, the best way I found is to get a die
grinder ($10 on sale at harbor freight) and the 3" cutting disks that
Van's aircraft sells. Use a 1/4" arbor (can be a 1/4 bolt threaded to
the end with a nut to clamp the disk...not perfect but will work if you
can't find an arbor)
Similarly sanding the edges can be best achieved using 3M Roloc wheels
(look on Ebay) with the special arbor...Use the coarse disk, great for
sanding plexi, aluminium and steel, all of the custom fab shops use
these now...work very well.
The above disks will also work just as well in a high speed air drill. I
also sanded the bottom edge of my canopy with a belt sander...But its
big and unweildy, the roloc wheels are much more controllable, more
accurate and therefore much faster to get the work done.
Warm up the shop if posible, I never did anything on my canopy below 75
degrees.
Use proper plexiglass drill bits, they are cheap...At a pinch you can
grind down standard drill bits like ZAC recommends.
Do not use rivets ANYWHERE on the plexi...Sure fire way to crack it.
Use slighlty oversize holes in the plexi to allow for
expansion/contraction.
Good luck
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ERIC TINGEY
Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy instalation
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ERIC TINGEY <etingey@rogers.com>
List,
I'm looking for information on how to cut and fit the canopy.
Eric Tingey.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL Autopilot? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill@sympatico.ca>
Hi Don;
There is nothing in the wings. Other than the control heads the servos
go behind the seats.
I noticed that one of the other replies mentioned the 180 degree turn
around (escape manouver). It does work.
Regards
Mike
CH-601HDS
Don Mountain wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
>
> Thanks very much Mike. Thats what I wanted to hear. Does any of the unit get
installed in the wings before the top skin is riveted on? Or is all of the
unit, servos and stuff built into the airframe? At what point of construction
should I be buying the unit? I have the tail all done, and I am now working
on the wings, getting ready to put the top skins on them. I have not started
the airframe yet. What drives the altitude control unit? I am planning
to use the Dynon EFIS also.
>
> Don
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill
>
> >Hi Don;
> >
> >I have the Trio AP & altitude hold in my
> >CH-601HDS that is coupled to the
> >Garmin 295. They work very well. It is a
> >very light system ,easy to install and setup.
> >
> >Mike
> >CH-601HDS 1200+ hours
> >UHS Spinners
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Thank you for the link to Chris Heintz's flight test articles.
I just finished reading both articles and found them very useful. I
was particularly impressed with how Chris suggests a completely
different approach for testing a kit/plans built plane on its first
flight compared to the first flight for a new airplane design
prototype . The big difference is Chris's plan hits the high points
of the entire flight envelope while the FAA circular suggests only
slow flight for the first flight.
For me, this is another example of how valuable this list can be.
Paul
XL wings
At 06:06 AM 1/5/2006, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy"
><jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
>
>Good day. Here is a link to an article written by Chris Heintz about the
>first flight. Hope you find it interesting.
>Jean-Paul
>
>http://exp-aircraft.com/library/heintz/testing.html
>
>
----
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
I got over my problem with prime painting the wing upper skins during cold weather.
I am using Dupont's 615S VariPrime. While my wife was at work, I laid
down plastic in the living room and brought the polished and prepped skin in
and painted it with a brush at 11:00 am this morning. My question is, with
it at 30 degrees outside, how long should I let it dry in the house before
taking it back out to the garage? My wife gets home from work about 5:00 PM.
Can I get it done, or should I offer to meet her uptown for supper out and
a movie?
Don
601 XL, working on wings
---------------------------------
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: re: 601 XL Autopilot? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
Tony, if I remember correctly the Garmin 295 used the same plug in the back for
both downloading information off of the internet and running the power off
the plane. Is there a plug that you bought to both provide the data stream to
the autopilot and to power the Garmin off the plane? Or do you have to run
it off of its internal batteries while using the autopilot?
Don
601XL, tail done, working on wings
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "T. Graziano"
>
>I have a Trio EZ Pilot II in my XL. It receives input
>from my Garmin 295. Works great. No problems
>in installation. Simple hookup to the Garmin NMEA
>0183 data stream. It does not have altituude hold.
>I use minor throttle adjustments and/or trim to hold
>altitude.
>
>Tony Graziano
>601XL N493TG
---------------------------------
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Paint Drying? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren <challgren@mac.com>
Don:
...supper out and a movie; then a motel.
Stan
On Jan 5, 2006, at 10:44 AM, Don Mountain wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain
> <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
>
> I got over my problem with prime painting the wing upper skins
> during cold weather. I am using Dupont's 615S VariPrime. While
> my wife was at work, I laid down plastic in the living room and
> brought the polished and prepped skin in and painted it with a
> brush at 11:00 am this morning. My question is, with it at 30
> degrees outside, how long should I let it dry in the house before
> taking it back out to the garage? My wife gets home from work
> about 5:00 PM. Can I get it done, or should I offer to meet her
> uptown for supper out and a movie?
>
> Don
> 601 XL, working on wings
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events,
> holidays, whatever.
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: japhillipsga@aol.com
Rick, your welcome to fly in my XL-3300 anytime you can get down here to Georgia.
Bill N505WP
-----Original Message-----
From: Beckman, Rick <Rick.Beckman@atk.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick" <Rick.Beckman@atk.com>
=09
It's me, again, about this first flight thing.
I sure want to thank all of you for your input on this. What I left out
of the first post is that the plane is not finished, but I only need a hundred
hours or so to " git 'er done "! All that's left is the wiring, canopy, seats,
and paint. This is an XL with a Jabiru 3300. The main runway at KLXT in
Lee's Summit, MO, is 4015 ft. long, so it should allow a few hops and rather
fast taxiing.
As for my Dr., he's just looking out for me, that's all. My wife? well,
that's another story. She likes to fly with me and is learning to land and
navigate---no desire to get her ticket, though. She does, however, need to know
how to fly and land. I told her that if the Good Lord calls me home while we are
up, there's no need fot both of us to go! This bird is going to be our vacation
transportation to parts, as of yet, unknown. Few things in this world scare me,
such as first flight, but I don't intend to tempt destruction, either. I do need
more hours and definitely more time in this type. I've been told that ZAC might
work out something for a little more time in the Demo. I'll have to check and
see as the time to lift off gets closer.
Again, I want to thank all of you that responded to this. These types
of responses are what make this site so SUPER!!
I hope and Pray that all of you have a happy and safe
New Year !
Rick Beckman
Midwest Mudworks
729 MSL and sinking
www.sharbo.us/thebird
Do NOT archive
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Paint Drying? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
What was the plastic for??????
How are the wings NOT in the living room when you both return from supper
and the movie?
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas do not archive
Subject: Zenith-List: Paint Drying?
> I got over my problem with prime painting the wing upper skins during
cold weather. I am using Dupont's 615S VariPrime. While my wife was at
work, I laid down plastic in the living room and brought the polished and
prepped skin in and painted it with a brush at 11:00 am this morning. My
question is, with it at 30 degrees outside, how long should I let it dry in
the house before taking it back out to the garage? My wife gets home from
work about 5:00 PM. Can I get it done, or should I offer to meet her
uptown for supper out and a movie?
>
> Don
> 601 XL, working on wings
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight - An opposing point of view |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: japhillipsga@aol.com
I agree with Phil. Crow hopping in a plane you have plenty of time and experience
with would be no problem. Fact is some of my early landings would have qualified
as I "dribbled" down the strip, but to do it in a test plane that your totally
unfamiliar with and maybe not even sure if it will fly or flair seems unnecessarily
risky for the possible benefit, FWIW, Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Condon, Philip M. <pcondon@mitre.org>
Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight - An opposing point of view
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Condon, Philip M." <pcondon@mitre.org>
Many tail wheel instructors say this crow hopping self training method
is "for the birds" and not the best way to train yourself. Consider the
point or phase where you are most likely to get into trouble in the
flight phase (landing) -- and now place yourself there with hi speed
taxi tests, with "p" factor and right rudder (Take of power), and
possible winds now try to teach yourself correct, and fast enough
rudder responses to keep yourself straight on the runway. It can be
done, but you are placing yourself in a known hazard zone of flight,
with little initial training - only to train yourself....? . Only a
word of caution. There are two schools of thought on this issue,
hearing everyone say to crow-hop is a good teaching method needs a
thorough introspection with ALL the facts....
RV-4, Cessna-140, Cessna 150 tail conversion, CUB & RV-8 builder....
(All tail wheel airplanes.....)
Phil N41RV & N800RV
.......................................................................
...............
If you have a real desire to test fly your plane, you can do it...but
you must
prepare yourself. some good advice has been given about doing that.
Regarding taxi testing, I recommend lots of it with gradually
increasing speeds
to the point of taxiing at steady speedwith the nose wheel up or the
tail up.
I personally think High speed taxiing is good to build up to in a tail
dragger.
But work up to this in steps. These designs are solid in their controls
and
manageable as you get a feel for them with increasing taxi runs with
increased
speed...20, 30, 40, 50..up to 60+ in a tail dragger. Do numerous runs
at
each speed until you are confident of the feel of controls.
Faa Advice is to test ground handling throughout the range. I wanted
to know
what mine was going to feel like as it hit the ground, so I taxi tested
to 70
mph numerous times with nothing but solid control feel in the HDS... by
then
I had no fears of flying the plane. don Walker HDS taildragger 365
hrs
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Hoak<mailto:planejim@bellsouth.net>
Message 21
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| Subject: | re: paint drying/brave?fellow |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
The motel suggestion wins the prize this week!
do not archive
Zed
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight - An opposing point of view |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <d3dw@msn.com>
I agree with Phil, too. Crow hopping is for the birds, especially with a fairly
inexperienced pilot. I have seen three accidents while crow hopping. However,
thoroughly testing the ground behavior of your airplane is something I recommend
whether you are going to do the first flight or not. Since you do not begin
taxi testing by applying full throttle for maximum acceleration, P factor and
torque will be no factor. You will be going slowly. I personally enjoyed getting
the feel of my bird...turning in both directions, adding a little speed up
to 20 or so.
Comfortable with that, I then slowly put in enough power to lift the tail. You
can do this and lift the nose, also, for a tricycle. Holding this speed and
taxiing will give you valuable input on the feel of rudder and elevator. Work
the elevator up and down gently and observe the effect. Make some slight rudder
input and see how she feels. Now you have some experience without being
in the high risk zone. After doing this a time or two, or when one feels comfortable,
then do a run and increase speed by five or so miles an hour. You will
soon know how controllable you think the plane is. Treat your plane like a lover.
Do this dance with her and be sensitive to how she feels. Plenty of foreplay
is good before getting off... And I mean play...experiment with the controls...according
to your comfortable capacity. Feel them out at each speed. Trying
to be TOO perfect down the line can leave you stressed, rigid, and never let
you know how your plane feels. She will let you know when she feels light or
may go too far sideways. If you can't pay attention during testing, you probably
don't need to fly. The faster you go, the straighter she will track and the
more solid the feel on these birds.
If you can't develop a feel for these controls before you hit forty mph, you
need some more practice. Most will get it pretty quickly. Then you should do
okay with higher speed as long as you don't jerk her around with really abrupt
inputs.
The HDS is easier than flying any tail dragger I have flown, except for the champ.
That includes Chief, Luscombe, Stearman, Mustang II, ultralights, Rans S-10,
cub, Taylorcraft... off the top of my head.
You need to know how you plane responds to control inputs at varying speeds.
Doing as much of that as possible without leaving the ground seems smart to
me. don walker
From: japhillipsga@aol.com<mailto:japhillipsga@aol.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight - An opposing point of view
--> Zenith-List message posted by: japhillipsga@aol.com<mailto:japhillipsga@aol.com>
I agree with Phil. Crow hopping in a plane you have plenty of time and experience
with would be no problem. Fact is some of my early landings would have qualified
as I "dribbled" down the strip, but to do it in a test plane that your
totally unfamiliar with and maybe not even sure if it will fly or flair seems
unnecessarily risky for the possible benefit, FWIW, Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Condon, Philip M. <pcondon@mitre.org<mailto:pcondon@mitre.org>>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight - An opposing point of view
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Condon, Philip M." <pcondon@mitre.org<mailto:pcondon@mitre.org>>
Many tail wheel instructors say this crow hopping self training method
is "for the birds" and not the best way to train yourself. Consider the
point or phase where you are most likely to get into trouble in the
flight phase (landing) -- and now place yourself there with hi speed
taxi tests, with "p" factor and right rudder (Take of power), and
possible winds now try to teach yourself correct, and fast enough
rudder responses to keep yourself straight on the runway. It can be
done, but you are placing yourself in a known hazard zone of flight,
with little initial training - only to train yourself....? . Only a
word of caution. There are two schools of thought on this issue,
hearing everyone say to crow-hop is a good teaching method needs a
thorough introspection with ALL the facts....
RV-4, Cessna-140, Cessna 150 tail conversion, CUB & RV-8 builder....
(All tail wheel airplanes.....)
Phil N41RV & N800RV
......................................................................
...............
If you have a real desire to test fly your plane, you can do it...but
you must
prepare yourself. some good advice has been given about doing that.
Regarding taxi testing, I recommend lots of it with gradually
increasing speeds
to the point of taxiing at steady speedwith the nose wheel up or the
tail up.
I personally think High speed taxiing is good to build up to in a tail
dragger.
But work up to this in steps. These designs are solid in their controls
and
manageable as you get a feel for them with increasing taxi runs with
increased
speed...20, 30, 40, 50..up to 60+ in a tail dragger. Do numerous runs
at
each speed until you are confident of the feel of controls.
Faa Advice is to test ground handling throughout the range. I wanted
to know
what mine was going to feel like as it hit the ground, so I taxi tested
to 70
mph numerous times with nothing but solid control feel in the HDS... by
then
I had no fears of flying the plane. don Walker HDS taildragger 365
hrs
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Hoak<mailto:planejim@bellsouth.net<mailto:planejim@bellsouth.net>>
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Canopy instalation |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Eric,
Canopy fitting is perplexing because you need to know how much trimming
is correct before the fact. All the cutting information
you'll receive is more than adequate. Grind, do not saw cut. Radius
all edges ever so slightly by hand and the screw holes
need to be larger by 50% to allow adding small rubber hose segments that
will fit under the washers, around the screw threads
and protect the plexi. Make the hose segments 25% longer than the
thickness of the plexi. For the fitting, leave all the protective
skin on the canopy even after you have the canopy set upon the skins,
bows and structure. You'll have to use a compass
with an ink marker to sweep the front and rear edges to get them marked
progressively until the canopy sets as shown
in the guidance. Final trimming of the front and rear edges will place
the canopy on the bows. Do be carefull to get
the front and rear edges trimmed so they are no more than a quarter of
an inch above the forward top skin and the rear top skin and just
touching all way around the sides of both bows. This is the hardest
part of fitting, but if you go slowly, you can put the canopy on with no
more
than rubber edger on front and back, get a sealed fit that requires no
flashing to compensate for over-cutting.
Do take a look at my canopy page and note the progression of the canopy
pictures. They tell the story of how the structure is first put together
and the steps of trimming and fitting the front and back edges. Once
the perimeter is in place with correct bow contact and gap front and
rear, you fit the rubber trim to check the set on the skins. Then
proceed to mark the bows for screw holes with the ink marker and then copy
those thru the plexiglass for the drilling. Take the time to examine
contacts all round and fit front and back many times as you prepare for
drilling.
From there out, the progression is intuitive. I always found it takes
two sets of hands to place the canopy with the wings off held at the sides.
You'll probably put it on and take it off a dozen times or more over a
period of a couple of weeks before drilling any holes.
I hope this is helpful, but if you have questions, please ask. (sample
links below)
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/cnpyrailcover.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/canopyframeup.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/canopyset.gif
Larry C. McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
ERIC TINGEY wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: ERIC TINGEY <etingey@rogers.com>
>
>List,
>
> I'm looking for information on how to cut and fit the canopy.
>
> Eric Tingey.
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | First Flight - An opposing point of view |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Plenty of foreplay is good before getting off.
We are still talking about airplanes here Don right?...:)
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Walker
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight - An opposing point of view
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <d3dw@msn.com>
I agree with Phil, too. Crow hopping is for the birds, especially with a
fairly inexperienced pilot. I have seen three
Message 25
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Don't forget that Jim Pellen at Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes has a 601XL for
instruction or rental. It has a Rotax and a three-bladed prop, not a Jabiru:
http://www.maspl.com/
jim@pellien.com
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Beckman, Rick
Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick"
--> <Rick.Beckman@atk.com>
=09
It's me, again, about this first flight thing.
I sure want to thank all of you for your input on this. What I left
out of the first post is that the plane is not finished, but I only need a
hundred hours or so to " git 'er done "! All that's left is the wiring,
canopy, seats, and paint. This is an XL with a Jabiru 3300. The main
runway at KLXT in Lee's Summit, MO, is 4015 ft. long, so it should allow a
few hops and rather fast taxiing.
As for my Dr., he's just looking out for me, that's all. My wife?
well, that's another story. She likes to fly with me and is learning to land
and navigate---no desire to get her ticket, though. She does, however, need
to know how to fly and land. I told her that if the Good Lord calls me home
while we are up, there's no need fot both of us to go! This bird is going to
be our vacation transportation to parts, as of yet, unknown. Few things in
this world scare me, such as first flight, but I don't intend to tempt
destruction, either. I do need more hours and definitely more time in this
type. I've been told that ZAC might work out something for a little more
time in the Demo. I'll have to check and see as the time to lift off gets
closer.
Again, I want to thank all of you that responded to this. These
types of responses are what make this site so SUPER!!
I hope and Pray that all of you have a happy and
safe New Year !
Rick Beckman
Midwest Mudworks
729 MSL and sinking
www.sharbo.us/thebird
Do NOT archive
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Tach RPM error |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind@gmx.net>
Hi there,
I have a Rotax 912. I'm using the Grand Rapid Engine Information System as
well as a MicroTach 100 from Aircraft Spruce. Both use the signal wire from
the Rotax 912. Initally I had trouble with the MicroTach (neddle went all
the way to the left when RPM exceeded 3,500. Got that fixed by installing a
resistor. Now. both tachs show the same numbers.
Good luck
Thilo Kind
----- Original Message -----
From: <NYTerminat@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tach RPM error
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
>
> I am aware that the Rotax fires on each stroke. The Straomaster E-1 is set
up
> to look at that signal on every revolution. It seems to be reading way low
> in low and high RPM. I can set the Stratomaster to a .7 or .8 setting
which
> will fake it into getting a closer RPM range( .7 is high by approx 400 and
the .8
> setting is low by about 400 RPM). I can't set it inbetween (ie .75) to
make
> up the difference. This is the 2nd Stratomaster and it reads the same as
the
> 1st one. The Tiny tach which picks up inductance off the plug wire is low
by
> well over 1000 RPM in the upper RPM range. How accurate are everyone elses
tach?
>
> I reset the prop to 13 degrees and get a optical tach reading of 5395 at
max
> RPM, which is real close to the 6% less than max RPM at static test that
> Woodcomp reccomends. I pulled the plugs and checked the ratio between the
prop and
> piston TDC and it looks like the 2.43 to 1 is correct. Do I have to live
with
> this inaccuracy?
>
>
> Bob Spudis
> N701ZX CH-701/912S
>
> do not archive
>
> In a message dated 12/31/2005 6:42:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> daberti@sbcglobal.net writes:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Alberti" <daberti@sbcglobal.net>
>
> This is a standard practice on most new electronic ignition systems. They
> see the trigger on every revolution of the crankshaft and fire on every
> trigger.
>
> Dave 601-HD 912ULS
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: Scapbuilding help |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind@gmx.net>
Hi there,
never heard about Nylon 42. Must be a part number of some sort. Check out
the material you got: should be hard with a slight waxy touch. Almost
impossible to cut with a knife. If you can determine the melting point:
should be above 240 C.
Happy building
Thilo Kind
----- Original Message -----
From: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Scapbuilding help
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
>
> I ordered some Nylon from Aircraft Spruce. The catalog didn't specify
resin
> content, but it came in as Nylon 42. The plans call for "Nylon 66" in some
> places and "plastic" in others (such as elevator fairlead on the Front HT
> Frame). Anyone have any thoughts on whether or not I should use it?
>
>
> Also, tonight I started checking to see if I had the correct size solid
> rivets for the Center Spar. Where the plans call for AN-470-AD-5-9 (which
is
> .5625") these seem to be too long. Doing the math, a 5/32 diameter rivet
is
> .156" and 1.5 times is .234" for MIN and MAX (I am interpreting the 1.5D
> supplied in AC43.13-1b as MAX diameter). My spar cap and web measure .287"
> Subtract that from .5625 and I get .278 which is outside the range of
> between .156" and .234". Looks like I need to order some AN-470-AD-5-8's
> instead. Anyone else have this issue? Or am I missing something.
>
>
> Kevin Bonds
>
> Nashville TN
>
> 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
>
> Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
>
> <http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
>
>
> do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: 701 pitot tube |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Flavin" <jf701@bellsouth.net>
Doug:
I'd definitely use nut plates instead of rivets. Also leave just enough extra
length in the tubing so you can pull it down through the hole and fix a leak.
Just a little extra bit of time now is bound to save you lots of time and aggravation
later on.
John
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Paint Drying? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
You're not going to fool anybody so save the money on the dinner. The house
will smell like paint?? Bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Mountain" <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Paint Drying?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
>
> I got over my problem with prime painting the wing upper skins during
cold weather. I am using Dupont's 615S VariPrime. While my wife was at
work, I laid down plastic in the living room and brought the polished and
prepped skin in and painted it with a brush at 11:00 am this morning. My
question is, with it at 30 degrees outside, how long should I let it dry in
the house before taking it back out to the garage? My wife gets home from
work about 5:00 PM. Can I get it done, or should I offer to meet her
uptown for supper out and a movie?
>
> Don
> 601 XL, working on wings
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays,
whatever.
>
>
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
Jean-Paul
Thank you very much, there is alot of great info in Chris's article as well
as the other articles. It could not have come at a better time, I have a DAR
inspection on the 11th.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX CH-701
do not archive
In a message dated 1/5/2006 9:04:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy"
<jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
Good day. Here is a link to an article written by Chris Heintz about the
first flight. Hope you find it interesting.
Jean-Paul
http://exp-aircraft.com/library/heintz/testing.html
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