Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:31 AM - Re: Take-off roll reality check... (Ron Crook)
2. 06:08 AM - Re: Take-off roll reality check... (Paul Mulwitz)
3. 07:14 AM - Re: Take-off roll reality check... (David X)
4. 07:30 AM - Re: Take-off roll reality check... (doug kandle)
5. 07:52 AM - Re: Take-off roll reality check... (Ron Crook)
6. 08:00 AM - Re: Take-off roll reality check...Take-off roll reality check... (Tommy Walker)
7. 11:14 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Alternator Inciator. (Charles D)
8. 11:35 AM - Right seat flying ? (Maarten Versteeg)
9. 11:53 AM - Re: Right seat flying ? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
10. 12:28 PM - Re: Rotax 912 Alternator Inciator. ()
11. 02:15 PM - Re: Right seat flying ? (Bryan Martin)
12. 02:34 PM - Re: Rotax 912 Alternator Inciator. (Trevor Page)
13. 02:47 PM - flying the 701 (Jeff Small)
14. 03:19 PM - Re: Right seat flying ? (Paul Mulwitz)
15. 06:43 PM - Re: Right seat flying ? (Gary Gower)
16. 07:01 PM - All New BBS Interface For Matronics List Forums! (Matt Dralle)
17. 08:42 PM - Re: Take-off roll reality check... (David X)
18. 09:20 PM - Re: 601 HDS for sale (Fred Kirkland)
19. 09:40 PM - Re: Fuel sender, VW Beetle... (NYTerminat@aol.com)
20. 10:21 PM - Re: Take-off roll reality check. (Gary Gower)
21. 10:26 PM - Re: Drill stop (flybumtoo)
22. 10:59 PM - Re: Right seat flying ? (Craig Payne)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Take-off roll reality check... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Crook" <ronflys701@hotmail.com>
Just curious do u fly a 701? Or are u a math teacher?Every 701 is different
they are not alike we have 5 of them and they all fly at different speeds
and take off some sooner then others and land according to the pilots
experience.....You need to flys and know your limitations,,,Lets be honest,
the best is no trees or wires on either end and 2000 ft of runway but thats
not what the plane is about if u look in the archives u will see a couple of
guys who have almost met disaster taking off even with full flaps and
stalled? If u want to be safe don t push the plane to its limits when the
pilots limits can t match the plane....Like the zenith site says it takes
alot of practice and sometimes new gear from bending to perfect the stol
caracteristics of the 701 expecially at full gross....Regards Ron
>From: "David X" <dxj@comcast.net>
>Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Take-off roll reality check...
>Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 23:06:17 -0500
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" <dxj@comcast.net>
>
>This is an interesting problem, and I hope you don't mind the long answer
>... but I would hate to see a fellow pilot get hurt or killed ... so read
>on. Don't let your desires over-ride your common sense. That might get you
>divorced in case of marriage, but it will kill you in the case of
>airplanes.
>
>A quick look at the specs on Zenair's site for the CH701:
>http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7-perf.html
>
>Assumptions:
>============
>Let's assume you're going to be attempting takeoff at maximum gross weight.
>The web site quotes 38 as the stall speed with "dual" ... but it's not
>clear
>if that's maximum gross or not. For the purposes of discussion, let's use
>38
>as Vso.
>
>The best rate of climb (Vy) of 1000 FPM quoted on the site probably doesn't
>account for the worst case density altitude and humidity either. Let's
>assume Vy is 1.5 times Vso - or 57 MPH at 900 FPM. That's 84 feet per
>second
>(FPS) horizontally for every 15 FPS vertically.
>
>The best rate of climb (Vy) is also not the same as best angle of climb
>(Vx). On a short runway, you'll definitely want to use Vx; which means the
>rate of climb is going to be less than Vy! Lets assume Vx is 1.4 times Vso
>-
>or 54 MPH at 850 FPM. That's 80 FPS horizontally and 14 FPS vertically.
>
>The web site indicates you'll need about 115 feet for take-off roll at max
>gross weight, presumably on a hard runway surface. Let's assume a 50%
>increase in rolling distance for wet/soft/high grass and low density air
>due
>to high temperature and humidity ... so your take-off roll will be about
>170
>feet.
>
>The web site indicates a landing roll of 140 feet, presumably on a hard
>runway surface. Let's assume landing roll on grass is 25% longer because
>you
>don't want to be too aggressive with the brakes on a grass surface. That
>puts landing roll at 175 feet.
>
>You'll want to clear the trees by at least 50 feet, so you need to be 80
>AGL
>at the end of the runway. Runway length is 500 feet.
>
>Takeoff:
>========
>You'll need a little less than 6 seconds (80 feet AGL divided by 14 FPS
>vertical) after liftoff to clear the trees by 50 feet. At 80 FPS
>(horizontal) you'll use up another 450 feet of runway in that time to clear
>the trees by 50 feet. Add that to the 170 feet of ground roll for a total
>of
>620 feet. You're 120 feet short. In fact, with a 500 foot runway you only
>have about 4 seconds of runway left after take-off; which would put you
>only
>25 feet above the trees at the end of the runway. That's less than a wing
>span from disaster or death. So, technically, your 500 foot runway would
>work for takeoff so long as everything went well and you don't mind
>skimming
>trees on occasion.
>
>Aborted takeoff:
>================
>Let's say things don't go as planned: You get off or are about to get off
>the ground and things just don't seem right. Perhaps you forgot to put the
>flaps in the right position or the carb heat was on or the tires are
>under-inflated or the grass is wet/soft/tall etc. Maybe a suicidal deer
>jumped on the runway.
>
>You'll need perhaps 175 feet to stop if your wheels are on the ground at
>the
>time you abort. If you abort before liftoff, you'll need 345 feet
>(170+175),
>leaving 165 feet to spare.
>
>Let's say you lift off before aborting. You're traveling at about 80 FPS,
>so
>you'll have about 2 seconds of in-the-air time on an abort. How long will
>it
>take you make an abort decision once airborne? There is really no margin
>for
>error once you are off the ground - perhaps 1 second to decide to abort
>once
>airborne ... because if you climbed for 1 second, you'll presumably descend
>for 1 second before back to mother earth.
>
>Landing:
>========
>Approach is typically done at best glide speed for safety. Let's assume
>best
>glide is the same as Vy - or 84 FPS horizontally - and you're a minimum of
>50 feet above the trees at the approach end of the runway. You could use up
>as much as 450 feet of the runway on approach while descending 80 AGL and
>bleeding off your air speed during the flare etc. High-lift planes tend to
>have long flares. Add another 175 feet of ground roll to stop for a total
>of
>625 feet. You're 125 feet short. Ok, maybe you can come in steep and slow
>and closer to the trees. Maybe you can force it on the ground sooner and
>brake for longer. Would 500 feet be enough? I don't know, but it would be
>very close.
>
>Aborted landing:
>================
>Let's say things don't go as planned again and you have to abort the
>landing, perhaps even a few feet off the ground. It's that damned suicidal
>deer again! You already know that you can barely make it above the trees on
>take-off after a 170 ground roll, so it follows that you can only abort the
>landing in the first 170 feet of runway.
>
>Unfortunately, that deer did his math and knows that if he pops out
>anywhere
>on the last half of the runway, you'll either have to kill him or kill
>yourself (and passenger) on a go-around attempt.
>
>Conclusion:
>===========
>You need at least 650 feet if everything goes well, but 1000 feet if they
>don't. You need an additional 5 acres.
>
>
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Take-off roll reality check... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
I am surprised nobody has mentioned AOA or LRI device use to minimize
take off and landing distances for the 701.
Is anyone using these devices on a 701? What results?
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
At 05:29 AM 1/9/2006, you wrote:
>Just curious do u fly a 701? Or are u a math teacher?Every 701 is different
>they are not alike we have 5 of them and they all fly at different speeds
>and take off some sooner then others and land according to the pilots
>experience.....You need to flys and know your limitations,,,Lets be honest,
>the best is no trees or wires on either end and 2000 ft of runway but thats
>not what the plane is about if u look in the archives u will see a couple of
>guys who have almost met disaster taking off even with full flaps and
>stalled? If u want to be safe don t push the plane to its limits when the
>pilots limits can t match the plane....Like the zenith site says it takes
>alot of practice and sometimes new gear from bending to perfect the stol
>caracteristics of the 701 expecially at full gross....Regards Ron
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Take-off roll reality check... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" <dxj@comcast.net>
> Out of curiosity what sort of strip do you usually operate your 701 out
of?
Dave,
I fly a CH601 and a CH2000, but the principal applies to any aircraft. It's
not just what the aircraft and pilot can do when everything goes right ...
think about the contingencies ...
There were a number of antidotal accounts in the list about what the 701
could do. I've seen it operate. It's an impressive aircraft in the right
hands. However, don't bet your own life on antidotal accounts.
I think the best advice was to get some training or a demo to see what could
be done. Tell them what you want to do at your proposed field, then have
them go through a few simulations, like aborted landings and take-offs.
Consider worst case scenario, because it will happen eventually.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Take-off roll reality check... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: doug kandle <d_kandle@velocitus.net>
A 500' runway with trees at one end is a one-way strip in my
opinion. A 500' strip with trees at both ends is no runway at
all. I wouldn't make the strip longer, I would just try to give it a
clear approach from at least one end.
If you have a 50' tree that must be flown over on approach, then by
definition the runway can't start within 250' or so of the
obstruction. To my way of thinking, the runway starts at the point
where it is reasonable to begin the flare.
As for aborted landings: several mountain flying instructors around
here teach that you should remove the concept of aborted landings
from your mind. You can abort the approach, but not the landing. We
kill more pilots here during aborted landings than just about any
other phase of the flight (the part 135 guys usually meet their end
due to weather, but the flat landers usually buy the farm while
attempting a go around). As for the deer (moose, elk, mule). Better
to bend metal when almost stopped than hit something at full
power. Consider planning to ground loop the plane in this event.
> >You'll want to clear the trees by at least 50 feet, so you need to be 80
> >AGL
> >at the end of the runway. Runway length is 500 feet.
> >
> >
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Doug Kandle
CH701
Boise ID
Rudder & Horiz. Stab. done Working on 2nd Wing
Jabiru 2200
From complete kit
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Take-off roll reality check... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Crook" <ronflys701@hotmail.com>
I fly a 701 out of a 1800 ft ,but land and then taxi to the 500 ft mark to
taxi off the grass strip.you can fly the plane in at 50 mph or drop it in
and stop with a stall 1 ft above the field and come to a stop in 100
ft.........there is no substitute for practice and build your confidence you
will know your limitations.How many pilots have died trying to return to the
field on takeoff?Yet they hear about others... and have been told time and
time again to point down and land ahead. Go for a flight with someone who
has the plane, and really knows how to use the stol performance and see how
it performs and you will see if it is the right plane for u or not?I have
bent the spring learning how to perform this with a zenith instructor so I
know personally how fast it can drop .....just like a helicopter..Just
always be ready for the unexpected...there is a point where u will be
committed and u have to follow through even on takeoff....Regards Ron PS
....Im not an expert just had a bit of experience and seen some of the
problems u can run into with this plane........ 250 hrs .1 bent spring
and because Im using the old style, Had a wheel fork break ( had a hairline
crack between the bolt holes and slid along the grass with no damage to the
pro;p or the plane ..some luck as well).Regards Ron
>From: "David X" <dxj@comcast.net>
>Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Take-off roll reality check...
>Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 10:12:32 -0500
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" <dxj@comcast.net>
>
>
> > Out of curiosity what sort of strip do you usually operate your 701 out
>of?
>
>Dave,
>
>I fly a CH601 and a CH2000, but the principal applies to any aircraft. It's
>not just what the aircraft and pilot can do when everything goes right ...
>think about the contingencies ...
>
>There were a number of antidotal accounts in the list about what the 701
>could do. I've seen it operate. It's an impressive aircraft in the right
>hands. However, don't bet your own life on antidotal accounts.
>
>I think the best advice was to get some training or a demo to see what
>could
>be done. Tell them what you want to do at your proposed field, then have
>them go through a few simulations, like aborted landings and take-offs.
>Consider worst case scenario, because it will happen eventually.
>
>
Don't just Search. Find! http://search.sympatico.msn.ca/default.aspx The new
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Take-off roll reality check...Take-off roll reality check... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
I've read the following description of flying the 701 several time and the
guy seems to know what he's talking about regards flying the 701 out of
short sites:
http://www.acomodata.com/zenair701/index.htm
Tommy Walker in Alabama
Experience is a stern teacher, it gives you the test, THEN teaches you the
lesson.
dO nOt ArChIvE
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 Alternator Inciator. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles D" <charlesd1@telkomsa.net>
Hi all,
I may be wrong, but ....
in my experience, the 3W 12V lamp is to limit the field current to the
alternator. I don't think it would be wise to replace it with an LED.
cheers, Charles Davis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Fothergill" <mfothergill@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotax 912 Alternator Inciator.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill
<mfothergill@sympatico.ca>
>
> Hi:
> My opinon. Forget the lamp. Install an ammeter and a voltmeter. Then you
> will have a clue as to what is happening.
> Mike
>
>
> george may wrote:
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" <gfmjr_20@hotmail.com>
> >
> > A question for those flying behind the Rotax 912. The
documentation
> > suggests
> > the use of a 3 watt 12 volt indicator lamp to be tied across the L & C
> > terminals
> > of the regulator to indicate whether or not the charging circuit is
working.
> > 1) Can an LED be substituted for the suggested lamp? And if
yes,
> > what terminal does the
> > plus lead of the LED get tie to.
> >
> > Thanks
> > George May
> > 601XL 912S
> >
> > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Right seat flying ? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Maarten Versteeg <maarten.versteeg@swri.org>
Hello List,
I am still getting ready to build a XL, reading list and
archive but there is so much information on the list to
digest. Hopefully I can start building somewhere this
spring. I was recently offered a ride (thanks) and the 601xl
flies great, the center stick felt very comfortable and the
view was beautiful, in short I like the 601xl.
A question concerning the control; I am used to write ATC
info and other things down. If I would be flying in the left
seat that would be hard (unless I have an autopilot). I like
the center stick both from a simplicity point of view and
control feels nice.
Any thoughts about setting up the panel and pedals for right
seat flying, or is this a silly thought. It would allow the
pilot to control the plane left handed and the right hand
would be free to control radio's and write ATC calls. Cockpit
view is so good that flying left or right patterns wouldn't
make much of a difference, any other concerns ?
Regards,
Maarten
Message 9
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| Subject: | Right seat flying ? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
You could certinly set it up for right seat flying no problem...Of
course most patterns are left and with a low wing plane you do not get
quite the visibilty but its not a big deal I don't think.
Like you I learned to fly control wheel in the left hand...I instantly
changed to stick in the righ no problem...Now with the RV I have to
change back again and I'm very nervous about going the other way...:)
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Maarten
Versteeg
Subject: Zenith-List: Right seat flying ?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Maarten Versteeg
--> <maarten.versteeg@swri.org>
Hello List,
I am still getting ready to build a XL, reading list and archive but
there is so much information on the list to digest. Hopefully I can
start building somewhere this spring. I was recently offered a ride
(thanks) and the 601xl flies great, the center stick felt very
comfortable and the view was beautiful, in short I like the 601xl.
A question concerning the control; I am used to write ATC info and other
things down. If I would be flying in the left seat that would be hard
(unless I have an autopilot). I like the center stick both from a
simplicity point of view and control feels nice.
Any thoughts about setting up the panel and pedals for right seat
flying, or is this a silly thought. It would allow the pilot to control
the plane left handed and the right hand would be free to control
radio's and write ATC calls. Cockpit view is so good that flying left or
right patterns wouldn't make much of a difference, any other concerns ?
Regards,
Maarten
Message 10
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| Subject: | Rotax 912 Alternator Inciator. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <max.johansson@nokia.com>
Charles
This might be true for older conventional generators,
but the Rotax generator is permanent magnet and does
not have a field current. But you are right, I found
that a auto bulb was a better indicator than a LED
during bench testing of a rectifier regulator. Perhaps
by loading the L line to +12V with a resistor connected
in parallell with a LED with its own separate serial
resistor might do the trick.
rgrds
Max
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> ext Charles
> D
> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 9:06 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotax 912 Alternator Inciator.
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles D"
> <charlesd1@telkomsa.net>
>
> Hi all,
> I may be wrong, but ....
> in my experience, the 3W 12V lamp is to limit the field current to the
> alternator. I don't think it would be wise to replace it with an LED.
>
> cheers, Charles Davis
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Right seat flying ? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
There's a guy with an HDS based at a nearby airport that built his plane to
be flown from the right seat. It can be done and it probably won't make much
difference in flyability. In any case, I find it's not too difficult to
switch hands and fly with my left hand on the stick while writing with my
right or reaching for controls that are out of reach of my left hand. Two
fingers on the stick is all it takes to keep it straight and level.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
on 1/9/06 2:32 PM, Maarten Versteeg at maarten.versteeg@swri.org wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Maarten Versteeg
> <maarten.versteeg@swri.org>
>
> Hello List,
>
> A question concerning the control; I am used to write ATC
> info and other things down. If I would be flying in the left
> seat that would be hard (unless I have an autopilot). I like
> the center stick both from a simplicity point of view and
> control feels nice.
> Any thoughts about setting up the panel and pedals for right
> seat flying, ...
>
> Regards,
> Maarten
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 Alternator Inciator. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
Putting in resistor for an LED is absolutely required. There are no
filament bulbs in my panel at all, everything is LED on my 601HD.
I have then on every switch, this way I know at a visual glance if a
fuse has blown.
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Jan 9, 2006, at 3:23 PM, <max.johansson@nokia.com>
<max.johansson@nokia.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <max.johansson@nokia.com>
>
> Charles
>
> This might be true for older conventional generators,
> but the Rotax generator is permanent magnet and does
> not have a field current. But you are right, I found
> that a auto bulb was a better indicator than a LED
> during bench testing of a rectifier regulator. Perhaps
> by loading the L line to +12V with a resistor connected
> in parallell with a LED with its own separate serial
> resistor might do the trick.
>
> rgrds
> Max
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>> ext Charles
>> D
>> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 9:06 PM
>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotax 912 Alternator Inciator.
>>
>>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles D"
>> <charlesd1@telkomsa.net>
>>
>> Hi all,
>> I may be wrong, but ....
>> in my experience, the 3W 12V lamp is to limit the field current to
>> the
>> alternator. I don't think it would be wise to replace it with an LED.
>>
>> cheers, Charles Davis
>
>
Message 13
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
Once again for the newbies:
Best flying advice for the "thinking about the 701" bunch.
http://www.acomodata.com/zenair701/flying.htm<http://www.acomodata.com/zenair701/flying.htm>
Build it, you'll love it...jeff
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Right seat flying ? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Why not just trim it up and let it fly itself?
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
At 11:32 AM 1/9/2006, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Maarten Versteeg
><maarten.versteeg@swri.org>
>
>Hello List,
>
>Any thoughts about setting up the panel and pedals for right
>seat flying, or is this a silly thought. It would allow the
>pilot to control the plane left handed and the right hand
>would be free to control radio's and write ATC calls. Cockpit
>view is so good that flying left or right patterns wouldn't
>make much of a difference, any other concerns ?
>
>Regards,
> Maarten
-
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Right seat flying ? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
How soon you forgot how to drive (as a teenager) with a girlfriend... I think
is easier to write a little note in a plane,... I am sure... :-) :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower
I miss my old VW... ;-)
Do not archive!!!
Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
Why not just trim it up and let it fly itself?
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
At 11:32 AM 1/9/2006, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Maarten Versteeg
>
>
>Hello List,
>
>Any thoughts about setting up the panel and pedals for right
>seat flying, or is this a silly thought. It would allow the
>pilot to control the plane left handed and the right hand
>would be free to control radio's and write ATC calls. Cockpit
>view is so good that flying left or right patterns wouldn't
>make much of a difference, any other concerns ?
>
>Regards,
> Maarten
---------------------------------
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
Message 16
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| Subject: | All New BBS Interface For Matronics List Forums! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
I'm very proud to announce a completely new BBS interface is now available for
all of the Email Lists at Matronics! This is a full-featured system that allows
for viewing, posting, attachments, polls - the works.
But the best part is that it is *completely* integrated with all of the existing
email tools currently available at Matronics! What this means at the most basic
level is that, if you post a message to List from Email in the traditional
way, it will show up on the BBS system *and* get distributed to everyone currently
subscribed to the Email List. By the same token, if you are on the BBS
and post a message to a given List-Forum, the message will not only show up on
the BBS, but also be distributed to everyone on the Email List!!
It is really a very nice implementation and I am very pleased with its operation.
All of the tools you have come to know and love such as the List Search Engine
and List Browse and Download will still be available and contain all of the
latest posts. Think of the new BBS interface as just another method of accessing
the all of the Lists.
You can use the BBS to view all of the latest posts without having to do anything
except use your browser to surf over to the site. You can view and look at
all of the various List's posts. If you want to post a new message or reply
to an existing message from the BBS, you will have to Register on the BBS. This
is a *very* simple process and will only take a couple of minutes. There is
a small icon in the upper righthand side of the main BBS page labeled "Register"
to get you started.
I strongly recommend that you use the exact *same* email address you are subscribed
to the Email Lists with when registering on the BBS. Also, while not an
absolute requirement, I would really appreciate it if people would use their full
name when choosing their Username on the BBS (for example "Matt Dralle").
This just makes it easier for everyone to know who's posting. Also, I have enabled
the ability to upload a small user picture with your profile called an
"avatar". Please use a *real* picture of yourself *with* your cloths on! Thank
you! Maximum size of the bitmap is 120x120.
You can either be subscribed to the BBS, or any number of Email Lists, or both.
Registering on the BBS will allow you to email directly to all of the various
Lists. However, to receive direct List Email, you will need to be *subscribed*
to the various Lists as you have in the past. No changes here in operation.
I have added numerous links on the BBS pointing to the Email List subscription
page.
I've had the BBS connected to the Lists for about a week now, so its already loaded
up with a fair number of messages. You can post photos and other documents
directly to the BBS and links to them will appear in the List Email distributions.
Also, when any messages posted to the BBS are viewed in the List Email
distribution, there will be a URL link at the bottom of the message pointing
back to the BBS.
And here's what you've been waiting for -- the main URL for the new Matronics Email
List BBS is:
http://forums.matronics.com
Please surf on over, Register, and have a great time! I think this will be the
dawn of a whole new era for the Lists at Matronics!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Take-off roll reality check... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" <dxj@comcast.net>
> Or are u a math teacher?
Any safe pilot will add to the minimums some margin for pilot error and
unforeseen events. The approach I outlined is a tried and true way to
thumb-nail a reality check . so I was required to demonstrate using a POH
before being granted a pilot's license.
Ok, so I got Vso, Vx and Vy wrong, but anyone with a 6th grade education can
redo the math . in case you were wondering.
Some people like living on the edge . but the gentleman asked for opinions
from the peanut gallery . so I suggested he think about adding a healthy
margin for error so he can continue to enjoy that fine wife, faithful dog,
hard earned house and beautiful 5 acres of tall trees. There are obviously
going to be differences in opinion. On the other hand, if my novice opinion
prompted another to reply in more useful terms, even if it were to insult me
. then the gentleman has all the more opinion to weigh :)
The article linked to previously (
http://www.acomodata.com/zenair701/flying.htm ) was a good read. There are
some useful quotes there about margin of error:
"the speed will bleed amazingly quickly. This is particularly pronounced
when approaching with full flap, (30 deg.) Early power reduction and speed
decay can result in loss of elevator authority." Sounds like potential
trouble if too close to the trees during a power loss. But, leaving more
margin over the trees also means a longer runway is required.
"any strip with a fence at each end less than 200 m long requires the pilot
to be well versed with the STOL capabilities of the 701" So, 200 meters is
156 feet longer than the gentleman's proposed field. I recall that I told
him he was 120 feet too short based on a thumbnail calculation.
"I believe it's absolute minimum length, in still air, fenced at both ends,
level, at sea level and moderate temperatures is 100m with no margin for
error" That's 328 feet, and I doubt the "fence" is 30 feet tall. I recall
that I told the gentlemen 345 was the absolute minimum landing distance
based on a thumbnail calculation.
"if you do attempt continued climb at this low speed and high body angle
and then suffer an engine failure below 100' agl, [then] recovery is not
possible before hitting the ground." So, you need more runway to pick up
speed in ground affect so not to be forced to climb at 30 knots, and you
need more runway incase of an engine failure.
"A low experience pilot wanting to buy a 701 to operate a really short field
on the strength of the advertised figures could be in for disappointment." I
think that sums it up nicely.
Math is your friend. Don't be afraid of it.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: 601 HDS for sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred Kirkland" <fdk0154.tx@cox.net>
It's been suggested that I provide more information about my kit. It is a complete
kit and includes everything to finish it except the avionics and essential
instruments, i.e. I don't have the altimeter, compass, or skid ball. All engine
instruments are included. I have the cowling, radiator, motor mount, and
so forth.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel sender, VW Beetle... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
Thank to all that tried to help out in finding the sender for my 701. Could
not find it locally through any auto parts stores or VW dealers. I wound up
ordering it online through Don's Sport Vehicle Sales (www.egauges.com) I
overnited it and Lord willing I will get it tomorrow and have enough time to get
it
installed before Wednesday.
Thanks again
Bob Spudis
CH-701/912S
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Take-off roll reality check. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
David, you are right, lets take an example of driving a modern car with power
asisted, vented disc, anti block brakes... Any brand. and at every light you
get there at 50 mph and stop hard at the last minute a foot away of the front
car bumper, just because of your great braking power...
One day you might miss or can fail and you are in big trouble.
But if you drive carefully (normaly for that car) and sudenly another driver
in the intersection misses the red light... You have more chances to stop and
avoid with that car than driving (at the same speed) a 1950 car with drum brakes
and without power asistance. This simple.
The way I see our 701 is also simple:
Takes off and lands near as an ultralight and cruises almost as a light plane
(Sport in USA). ( 95 mph 912S @ 5,1000 rpm ). Is like having two airplanes
in one.
The lower the speed you are able to land safely, the more chances you have to
make corrections, things happen at a lower pace and give you a little more
chance...
Also the cabin is more confortable and silent than most ultralights...
Yes, I enjoy flying the bush pilot type, This is why we choose the 701, first
place.
We have bush pilot friend (and my Instructor) that once in a while "needs"
a copilot, I enjoy every flight, but I admit, not beeing ready yet in our 701...
Saludos
Gary Gower
Do not archive.
David X <dxj@comcast.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X"
> Or are u a math teacher?
Any safe pilot will add to the minimums some margin for pilot error and
unforeseen events. The approach I outlined is a tried and true way to
thumb-nail a reality check . so I was required to demonstrate using a POH
before being granted a pilot's license.
Ok, so I got Vso, Vx and Vy wrong, but anyone with a 6th grade education can
redo the math . in case you were wondering.
Some people like living on the edge . but the gentleman asked for opinions
from the peanut gallery . so I suggested he think about adding a healthy
margin for error so he can continue to enjoy that fine wife, faithful dog,
hard earned house and beautiful 5 acres of tall trees. There are obviously
going to be differences in opinion. On the other hand, if my novice opinion
prompted another to reply in more useful terms, even if it were to insult me
. then the gentleman has all the more opinion to weigh :)
The article linked to previously (
http://www.acomodata.com/zenair701/flying.htm ) was a good read. There are
some useful quotes there about margin of error:
"the speed will bleed amazingly quickly. This is particularly pronounced
when approaching with full flap, (30 deg.) Early power reduction and speed
decay can result in loss of elevator authority." Sounds like potential
trouble if too close to the trees during a power loss. But, leaving more
margin over the trees also means a longer runway is required.
"any strip with a fence at each end less than 200 m long requires the pilot
to be well versed with the STOL capabilities of the 701" So, 200 meters is
156 feet longer than the gentleman's proposed field. I recall that I told
him he was 120 feet too short based on a thumbnail calculation.
"I believe it's absolute minimum length, in still air, fenced at both ends,
level, at sea level and moderate temperatures is 100m with no margin for
error" That's 328 feet, and I doubt the "fence" is 30 feet tall. I recall
that I told the gentlemen 345 was the absolute minimum landing distance
based on a thumbnail calculation.
"if you do attempt continued climb at this low speed and high body angle
and then suffer an engine failure below 100' agl, [then] recovery is not
possible before hitting the ground." So, you need more runway to pick up
speed in ground affect so not to be forced to climb at 30 knots, and you
need more runway incase of an engine failure.
"A low experience pilot wanting to buy a 701 to operate a really short field
on the strength of the advertised figures could be in for disappointment." I
think that sums it up nicely.
Math is your friend. Don't be afraid of it.
---------------------------------
Message 21
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "flybumtoo" <dan@danribb.com>
Very cool. This works great!
Dan Ribb
601 XL Tail Kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2390#2390
Message 22
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| Subject: | Right seat flying ? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
I faced the same question myself and couldn't see any reason *not* to switch
to the dual sticks. I've trained in dual yoke and dual stick planes and
flown in an XL with dual sticks (William Wynne's tail-dragger) and didn't
find the sticks in the way. And since various emergency controls will go on
the center console (tank select, back-up fuel pump select, ignition
coil/points select (semi-redundant Corvair ignition)) I'd rather keep my
right hand free. I've tried to keep other important controls near the center
so I can operate them with my right hand or my passenger/co-pilot can too.
Your mileage may vary.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Maarten
Versteeg
Subject: Zenith-List: Right seat flying ?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Maarten Versteeg
--> <maarten.versteeg@swri.org>
Hello List,
I am still getting ready to build a XL, reading list and archive but there
is so much information on the list to digest. Hopefully I can start building
somewhere this spring. I was recently offered a ride (thanks) and the 601xl
flies great, the center stick felt very comfortable and the view was
beautiful, in short I like the 601xl.
A question concerning the control; I am used to write ATC info and other
things down. If I would be flying in the left seat that would be hard
(unless I have an autopilot). I like the center stick both from a simplicity
point of view and control feels nice.
Any thoughts about setting up the panel and pedals for right seat flying, or
is this a silly thought. It would allow the pilot to control the plane left
handed and the right hand would be free to control radio's and write ATC
calls. Cockpit view is so good that flying left or right patterns wouldn't
make much of a difference, any other concerns ?
Regards,
Maarten
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