---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 01/10/06: 66 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:33 AM - Re: Official Usage Guidelines (Rick Roberts) 2. 05:04 AM - scenery flying/ greenhouse effect (Doug Naylor) 3. 06:25 AM - Re: Right seat flying ? () 4. 07:22 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Alternator Inciator. (Leo Gates) 5. 07:28 AM - Re: Tach RPM error (Larry Martin) 6. 07:40 AM - Re: Right seat flying ? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 7. 07:52 AM - Re: Right seat flying ? (Leo Gates) 8. 08:01 AM - Re: Right seat flying ? (japhillipsga@aol.com) 9. 08:19 AM - Looking for a DAR in MN, ND, SD (Brad Larson) 10. 08:33 AM - 701 battery location? (Zed Smith) 11. 08:36 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Alternator Inciator. (David X) 12. 08:38 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Alternator Inciator. (David X) 13. 08:40 AM - Shop size (John Hines) 14. 08:49 AM - Re: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect (japhillipsga@aol.com) 15. 08:58 AM - Re: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect (David X) 16. 09:07 AM - Re: 701 battery location? (Ron Crook) 17. 09:21 AM - Re: Looking for a DAR in MN, ND, SD (cgalley) 18. 09:22 AM - Re: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect (Mike Fothergill) 19. 09:37 AM - Re: Right seat flying ? (Mitch Hodges) 20. 09:55 AM - Re: shop size (Zed Smith) 21. 09:58 AM - Re: Shop size (Paul Mulwitz) 22. 09:58 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 01/09/06 (Gig Giacona) 23. 10:18 AM - Flap actuator (601corvair) 24. 10:19 AM - Re: Re: shop size (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 25. 10:26 AM - Re: Shop size (David X) 26. 10:39 AM - Re: Shop size (Dave Covert) 27. 10:41 AM - Threaded Gas Filler Neck Sealer (Don Mountain) 28. 10:52 AM - Re: Flap actuator (lgingell) 29. 11:05 AM - Re: Flap actuator (N5SL) 30. 11:14 AM - Re: Flap actuator (Robin Bellach) 31. 11:53 AM - Re: 601 XL Autopilot? (Gig Giacona) 32. 11:55 AM - Re: Shop size (steveadams) 33. 12:47 PM - Re: Shop size (Larry McFarland) 34. 12:47 PM - Re: Re: 601 XL Autopilot? (Craig Payne) 35. 01:22 PM - Re: Re: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect () 36. 01:32 PM - Re: Shop size (David X) 37. 01:35 PM - Re: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect (Larry McFarland) 38. 02:06 PM - Re: Re: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect (jim) 39. 02:16 PM - Info (Gpjann@aol.com) 40. 02:22 PM - Zodiac 601 (Gpjann@AOL.COM) 41. 02:27 PM - Re: Looking for a DAR in MN, ND, SD (Bryan Martin) 42. 02:37 PM - Re: Looking for a DAR in MN, ND, SD (ron dewees) 43. 02:43 PM - Re: Re: shop size (Bryan Martin) 44. 02:45 PM - Re: Re: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect (Craig Moore) 45. 02:56 PM - Re: Looking for a DAR in MN, ND, SD (Bryan Martin) 46. 03:11 PM - Re: Info (Craig Payne) 47. 03:20 PM - Re: Right seat flying (Maarten Versteeg) 48. 03:30 PM - Re: Re: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect () 49. 03:43 PM - Re: Re: shop size (Zodie Rocket) 50. 05:14 PM - Re: Re: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect (David Alberti) 51. 05:26 PM - Re: Info (Randy Stout) 52. 06:10 PM - Re: 701 battery location? (Ron Crook) 53. 06:17 PM - Re: Zodiac 601 (Randy Stout) 54. 06:20 PM - Re: Looking for a DAR in MN, ND, SD (Paul Moore) 55. 06:46 PM - Re: Re: Right seat flying (Paul Moore) 56. 07:01 PM - Re: Zodiac 601 (ron dewees) 57. 07:19 PM - Re: Re: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect (ron dewees) 58. 07:21 PM - Re: Zodiac 601 (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 59. 07:41 PM - Harley Question (Larry) 60. 08:05 PM - Re: Fuel tank sending units for 701 (MaresAlf2@aol.com) 61. 08:06 PM - Zenith plane tours (Zodie Rocket) 62. 09:03 PM - Re: Re: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect (JOHN STARN) 63. 09:38 PM - Constant torque hose clamps (David X) 64. 10:09 PM - Re: Constant torque hose clamps (Bill Cardell) 65. 10:40 PM - Our Zenith 701 is in Airliners.net !!! Cant believe it! Great honor. (Gary Gower) 66. 10:55 PM - Re: Re: Shop size (Gary Gower) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:33:14 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Official Usage Guidelines From: "Rick Roberts" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rick Roberts" Very nice upgrade! Thanks! :D -------- Low Slow Rick www.n7001rr.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2402#2402 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:04:29 AM PST US From: "Doug Naylor" Subject: Zenith-List: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Doug Naylor" Hi Guys, Two quick questions: #1 Really, how good is the Zodiac XL at relatively low and slow, looking-at-the-ground-scenery type flying? i.e.-- is it pretty stable flying at slow speeds (with some flaps), and how much can you really see over the wings tightly strapped into those steeply reclined Lazy Boy-type seats? I've had one short ride in the company's XL but it's hard to remember the small details. --I'm trying to compare the Zodiac to a high wing, semi-STOL design (Wittman Buttercup). I'm not interested in the 701 because of it's slow cruising speed. #2 How hot can it get under that big bubble canopy in the summertime? Can the little fresh air vents keep up with the sun rays? Much Thanks, Doug N. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:23 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Right seat flying ? --> Zenith-List message posted by: INSTALL THE DUEL STICK OPTION AND FLY FROM EITHER SIDE. IF YOU CONFIGURE THE PLANE TO FLY FROM THE RIGHT, YOU MAY DECREASE ITS VALUE. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maarten Versteeg" Subject: Zenith-List: Right seat flying ? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Maarten Versteeg > > Hello List, > > I am still getting ready to build a XL, reading list and > archive but there is so much information on the list to > digest. Hopefully I can start building somewhere this > spring. I was recently offered a ride (thanks) and the 601xl > flies great, the center stick felt very comfortable and the > view was beautiful, in short I like the 601xl. > A question concerning the control; I am used to write ATC > info and other things down. If I would be flying in the left > seat that would be hard (unless I have an autopilot). I like > the center stick both from a simplicity point of view and > control feels nice. > Any thoughts about setting up the panel and pedals for right > seat flying, or is this a silly thought. It would allow the > pilot to control the plane left handed and the right hand > would be free to control radio's and write ATC calls. Cockpit > view is so good that flying left or right patterns wouldn't > make much of a difference, any other concerns ? > > Regards, > Maarten > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:24 AM PST US From: Leo Gates Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotax 912 Alternator Inciator. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Leo Gates The 3 W lamp is Optional. If none is connected, nothing is conneted to the lamp circuit. I have the regulator lamp output connected to a Radio Shack Relay. A bright flashing red LED is connected to the normally closed relay contacts, thru a dropping resistor. When starting the engine, the LED starts flashing when Essential Power is turned on. When the engine starts and there is output from the altinator, the LED goes off. The LED is mounted on the panel, just above my throttle. At 50 hours I had an altinator connection to the voltage regulator come loose. I was in flight, on my way home from a short XC. The light got my attention immediately and a quick glance at the ammeter verified no charge. I was 15 mins. from home, so continued the flight. Leo Gates N601Z Charles D wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles D" > >Hi all, >I may be wrong, but .... >in my experience, the 3W 12V lamp is to limit the field current to the >alternator. I don't think it would be wise to replace it with an LED. > >cheers, Charles Davis > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:02 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Tach RPM error From: "Larry Martin" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" I had a problem with my tack on my Harley engine. It read only half. I had to get a signal converter from www.datokadigital.com. A little expensive, $78, but it fixed the problem. Might be worth looking at. -------- 701 with a Harley, www.skyhawg.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2455#2455 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:40:28 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Right seat flying ? From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" What value? To explain...If you are going to build this thing to sell with =in the firt year you mybe right...If you are going to keep it for a few I think the value will taper off at an alarming rate no matter where you fly it from. Just my 2 cents Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CLEONARD52@comcast.net Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Right seat flying ? --> Zenith-List message posted by: INSTALL THE DUEL STICK OPTION AND FLY FROM EITHER SIDE. IF YOU CONFIGURE THE PLANE TO FLY FROM THE RIGHT, YOU MAY DECREASE ITS VALUE. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maarten Versteeg" Subject: Zenith-List: Right seat flying ? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Maarten Versteeg > > Hello List, > > I am still getting ready to build a XL, reading list and > archive but there is so much information on the list to > digest. Hopefully I can start building somewhere this > spring. I was recently offered a ride (thanks) and the 601xl > flies great, the center stick felt very comfortable and the > view was beautiful, in short I like the 601xl. > A question concerning the control; I am used to write ATC > info and other things down. If I would be flying in the left > seat that would be hard (unless I have an autopilot). I like > the center stick both from a simplicity point of view and > control feels nice. > Any thoughts about setting up the panel and pedals for right > seat flying, or is this a silly thought. It would allow the > pilot to control the plane left handed and the right hand > would be free to control radio's and write ATC calls. Cockpit > view is so good that flying left or right patterns wouldn't > make much of a difference, any other concerns ? > > Regards, > Maarten > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:26 AM PST US From: Leo Gates Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Right seat flying ? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Leo Gates My 2 cents. I do not understand all the concern about the "Y" stick. I have a Taylorcraft BC12D with two wheels. Often, when folding a map, playing with the GPS or jotting a note, I take both hands off the wheel and fly with the rudders. In my CH601HDS I usually have my bride or a neighbor/neighbor's wife/grandson/etc in the right seat. They can hold the plane level for a min. or two. Otherwise I find no problem with flying with my feet on the rudder pedals. Chris' "Y" stick is outstanding for my money. Nothing between the legs to contend with. I'm sure the installation is less complicated, and lighter. Leo Gates N601Z 82+ hours Maarten Versteeg wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Maarten Versteeg > >Hello List, > > >A question concerning the control; I am used to write ATC >info and other things down. If I would be flying in the left >seat that would be hard (unless I have an autopilot). I like >the center stick both from a simplicity point of view and >control feels nice. > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:20 AM PST US From: japhillipsga@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Right seat flying ? --> Zenith-List message posted by: japhillipsga@aol.com Maarten, an easier solution might be to install dual stick controls as opposed to the unorthodox setup of having PIC on the right side. Remember, someday you might want to sell your plane when ZAC comes out with a new "super XL" model and who would purchase it ? FWIW Bill -----Original Message----- From: Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Right seat flying ? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" You could certinly set it up for right seat flying no problem...Of course most patterns are left and with a low wing plane you do not get quite the visibilty but its not a big deal I don't think. Like you I learned to fly control wheel in the left hand...I instantly changed to stick in the righ no problem...Now with the RV I have to change back again and I'm very nervous about going the other way...:) Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Maarten Versteeg Subject: Zenith-List: Right seat flying ? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Maarten Versteeg --> Hello List, I am still getting ready to build a XL, reading list and archive but there is so much information on the list to digest. Hopefully I can start building somewhere this spring. I was recently offered a ride (thanks) and the 601xl flies great, the center stick felt very comfortable and the view was beautiful, in short I like the 601xl. A question concerning the control; I am used to write ATC info and other things down. If I would be flying in the left seat that would be hard (unless I have an autopilot). I like the center stick both from a simplicity point of view and control feels nice. Any thoughts about setting up the panel and pedals for right seat flying, or is this a silly thought. It would allow the pilot to control the plane left handed and the right hand would be free to control radio's and write ATC calls. Cockpit view is so good that flying left or right patterns wouldn't make much of a difference, any other concerns ? Regards, Maarten ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:59 AM PST US From: Brad Larson Subject: Zenith-List: Looking for a DAR in MN, ND, SD --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brad Larson Does anyone have a reference for a DAR in MN,ND,SD? I've been waiting on the one here in Fargo, ND for three months and cant seem to get to the top of his priority list. I have a friend that is just starting a RV-10 in Fergus Falls, MN that is concerned for the same reason. Brad. Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:56 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: 701 battery location? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith do not archive Can anyone offer comment on possible CG problems in the following: Standard 701 kit with standard 912 engine, standard ZAC wing tanks (10 gallons per wing) and NOT using the ZAC-supplied header tank; no floats, skis, bomb doors, arresting hook, onboard potty or food service. The ZAC assembly photos (ZAC web site) plainly show the battery just behind the right seat. However.......some builder sites show a tail-mounted battery. Larry's excellent site, for example. Do some other engines (Harley or Subaru) weigh more, therefore requiring the extra weight aft? I'm 165 pounds, including headset and gimme cap, and would rarely ever have a passenger. It's not too late to install a rear hatch, just more work. Comments, gentlemen? Thanks, Zed/701/R912/90+% etc ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:47 AM PST US From: "David X" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotax 912 Alternator Inciator. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" One watt is one ampere of current flowing at one volt; therefore AMPS x VOLTS = WATTS ... or .25A x 12V = 3W. If the bulb's secondary purpose is to limit current between L and C terminals on the alternator, then we must not exceed .25A when using an LED instead of a bulb. As discussed previously, the LED - in series with a current limiting resistor - draws 30mA (.03A) which is considerably less than a 3W bulb. The LED is also an advantage because it is cheaper, brighter and more reliable. This is why the LED is commonly used as a low voltage lamp instead of a 3W incandescent bulb. Sorry, Mr. Edison! >Hi all, >I may be wrong, but .... >in my experience, the 3W 12V lamp is to limit the field current to the >alternator. I don't think it would be wise to replace it with an LED. do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:36 AM PST US From: "David X" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotax 912 Alternator Inciator. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" I really like that idea! If the switch is on, but the light is not, check the fuse. >Putting in resistor for an LED is absolutely required. There are no >filament bulbs in my panel at all, everything is LED on my 601HD. >I have then on every switch, this way I know at a visual glance if a >fuse has blown. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:14 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Shop size From: "John Hines" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" I am about to begin my Zodiac XL project. I'm going to the workshop next week and bringing the tail kit home with me. I don't have room for anything else. I'm planning on building an 18 x 20 shop in the spring so I have room to build the rest. Do you guys think that is big enough? By my calculations I should be able to put it together and attach one wing at a time and still walk around it. Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, John ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:49:26 AM PST US From: japhillipsga@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect --> Zenith-List message posted by: japhillipsga@aol.com Doug, like any low wing vs high wing the ground view suffers. The trade off is safety in flight with the great view to the sides and above, etc. Whenever I want to see something below I just point one wing up and one down and look out the side and top. As to the Green House effect it is a real issue in summer and the venting on the ground is marginal, but this summer in Mid Georgia after take off and air could circulate it was not much of an issue. You do always have to wear a hat for sun though and my wife hates hats. Big hair woman. I would advise the larger air vent eyeballs. I plan to increase mine for more flow in the near future. Best regards, Bill N505WP 601XL-3300w/DC -----Original Message----- From: Doug Naylor Subject: Zenith-List: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Doug Naylor" Hi Guys, Two quick questions: #1 Really, how good is the Zodiac XL at relatively low and slow, looking-at-the-ground-scenery type flying? i.e.-- is it pretty stable flying at slow speeds (with some flaps), and how much can you really see over the wings tightly strapped into those steeply reclined Lazy Boy-type seats? I've had one short ride in the company's XL but it's hard to remember the small details. --I'm trying to compare the Zodiac to a high wing, semi-STOL design (Wittman Buttercup). I'm not interested in the 701 because of it's slow cruising speed. #2 How hot can it get under that big bubble canopy in the summertime? Can the little fresh air vents keep up with the sun rays? Much Thanks, Doug N. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:22 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect From: "David X" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" Once in the air, the cabin cooling is not bad. On the taxiway, it can get really hot in the summer - same as a piper. There are little circular rotating scoops that you can install in the canopy to catch the prop wash when on the taxi. -------- do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2502#2502 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:14 AM PST US From: "Ron Crook" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 701 battery location? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Crook" My battery is behind passenger seat I have no header tank in the front but I do have a header tank closed off in the rear section of the baggage compartment(10 litres) I also carry 90 liters 45 in each wing tank and also fly with 2 up most of the time with no c of g problems.......Ron >From: Zed Smith >Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: 701 battery location? >Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:32:56 -0600 (GMT-06:00) > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith > >do not archive > >Can anyone offer comment on possible CG problems in the following: > >Standard 701 kit with standard 912 engine, standard ZAC wing tanks (10 >gallons per wing) and NOT using the ZAC-supplied header tank; no floats, >skis, bomb doors, arresting hook, onboard potty or food service. > >The ZAC assembly photos (ZAC web site) plainly show the battery just behind >the right seat. >However.......some builder sites show a tail-mounted battery. Larry's >excellent site, for example. > >Do some other engines (Harley or Subaru) weigh more, therefore requiring >the extra weight aft? > >I'm 165 pounds, including headset and gimme cap, and would rarely ever have >a passenger. > >It's not too late to install a rear hatch, just more work. > >Comments, gentlemen? > >Thanks, > >Zed/701/R912/90+% etc > > Powerful Parental Controls Let your child discover the best the Internet has to offer. Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:21:30 AM PST US From: "cgalley" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Looking for a DAR in MN, ND, SD --> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley" If you are an EAA member call the Free EAA info line and ask for Joe Norris. He might be able to give you the name of a DAR or put you in touch with some one from your FSDO to do the inspection. Cy Galley EAA Safety Programs Editor Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Larson" Subject: Zenith-List: Looking for a DAR in MN, ND, SD > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brad Larson > > Does anyone have a reference for a DAR in MN,ND,SD? > > I've been waiting on the one here in Fargo, ND for three months and cant > seem to get to the top of his priority list. > > I have a friend that is just starting a RV-10 in Fergus Falls, MN that > is concerned for the same reason. > > Brad. > > Do Not Archive > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:44 AM PST US From: Mike Fothergill Subject: Re: Zenith-List: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill Hi; Install a 12 volt computer fan in the bulkhead at the back of the baggage shelf to exhaust some of the hot air. Also helps to defog the bubble in cold weather. Mike CH-601HDS UHS Spinners japhillipsga@aol.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: japhillipsga@aol.com > > Doug, like any low wing vs high wing the ground view suffers. The trade off is safety in flight with the great view to the sides and above, etc. Whenever I want to see something below I just point one wing up and one down and look out the side and top. As to the Green House effect it is a real issue in summer and the venting on the ground is marginal, but this summer in Mid Georgia after take off and air could circulate it was not much of an issue. You do always have to wear a hat for sun though and my wife hates hats. Big hair woman. I would advise the larger air vent eyeballs. I plan to increase mine for more flow in the near future. Best regards, Bill N505WP 601XL-3300w/DC > > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Naylor > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Doug Naylor" > > Hi Guys, > > Two quick questions: > > #1 Really, how good is the Zodiac XL at relatively low and slow, > looking-at-the-ground-scenery type flying? i.e.-- is it pretty stable > flying at slow speeds (with some flaps), and how much can you really see > over the wings tightly strapped into those steeply reclined Lazy Boy-type > seats? I've had one short ride in the company's XL but it's hard to > remember the small details. --I'm trying to compare the Zodiac to a high > wing, semi-STOL design (Wittman Buttercup). I'm not interested in the 701 > because of it's slow cruising speed. > > #2 How hot can it get under that big bubble canopy in the summertime? Can > the little fresh air vents keep up with the sun rays? > > Much Thanks, > > Doug N. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:42 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Right seat flying ? From: "Mitch Hodges" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mitch Hodges" Or, you could do what I did. I planned for this from an early age, and became left-handed! Definitely, DO NOT ARCHIVE -------- N601MH (Zenith 601HDS) Wings Under Construction Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2525#2525 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:13 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: re: shop size --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith do not archive The First Rule of Physics is: "Junk expands to fill all available space". Regardless of size, it still won't be large enough. Check the Boeing web site.....theirs are full, too. Every situation is different, but the first plane I built was in a 30 x 30. Thirty-two foot wings went on okay sitting diagonally in the building, but had to come off to get outside the ten-foot door. (Boat-in-the-basement syndrome) If there is any way to enlarge the area I'd sure consider doing so. Storage of finished parts (wings, etc) can also be a problem. Regards, Zed/701/R912/etc/90+% ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:32 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Shop size --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz Hi John, When it comes to workshop space, more is better. Your dimensions might be OK, but it would be a tight fit at best. Consider how difficult it would be to walk around your workbench which must be 12 long and 4 feet wide with wing parts hanging over some of the edges. Add some other "furniture" for tool storage and who knows what else, and it gets to be very difficult to move around. If you can make your shop bigger, I am sure you will find a way to use the extra space. Paul XL wings do not archive At 08:43 AM 1/10/2006, you wrote: >I am about to begin my Zodiac XL project. I'm going to the workshop >next week and bringing the tail kit home with me. I don't have room for >anything else. I'm planning on building an 18 x 20 shop in the spring >so I have room to build the rest. Do you guys think that is big enough? >By my calculations I should be able to put it together and attach one >wing at a time and still walk around it. Any comments or suggestions >would be appreciated. --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:56 AM PST US From: "Gig Giacona" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 01/09/06 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" There is nothing that says you have to fly from the left seat. If you want to set your plane up for right seat go for it. You're right if you are flying in an area where you have to contact ATC and write stuff down the center stick and left seat just won't work for a right hander. I'm going with the duel stick option and I did the majority of the work that is different from the center stick in one weekend. > > ________________________________ Message 8 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 11:35:51 AM PST US > From: Maarten Versteeg > Subject: Zenith-List: Right seat flying ? > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Maarten Versteeg > > > Hello List, > > I am still getting ready to build a XL, reading list and > archive but there is so much information on the list to > digest. Hopefully I can start building somewhere this > spring. I was recently offered a ride (thanks) and the 601xl > flies great, the center stick felt very comfortable and the > view was beautiful, in short I like the 601xl. > A question concerning the control; I am used to write ATC > info and other things down. If I would be flying in the left > seat that would be hard (unless I have an autopilot). I like > the center stick both from a simplicity point of view and > control feels nice. > Any thoughts about setting up the panel and pedals for right > seat flying, or is this a silly thought. It would allow the > pilot to control the plane left handed and the right hand > would be free to control radio's and write ATC calls. Cockpit > view is so good that flying left or right patterns wouldn't > make much of a difference, any other concerns ? > > Regards, > Maarten > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:50 AM PST US From: 601corvair Subject: Zenith-List: Flap actuator --> Zenith-List message posted by: 601corvair Ok folks I am about to open a can of worms with this question and I do it as a last resort and with several caveats. I need some info about the flap actuator on the XL. My partner and I are HDS builders who, because and for no other good reason than we WANT to, are designing and installing flaps on our HDS. We have designs for electrical and mechanical instillations and are assessing the financial and weight costs for both. I talked to ZAC about parts numbers and costs ( because this is not on the HDS plans I have). It is possible that I did not clearly articulate what I was asking, but I was told that the flaps actuator weights 5 lbs, is part number D1450036-3 and costs $584.85. Does this track with what you KNOW to be true? If anyone knows the exact weight I would appreciate transmitting this information. It would also be helpful to know how long it is, what the travel is, an how much force it can generate. I am assuming it comes with range limit switches etc. Are you plans builders getting this part from ZAC? I have found some aluminum ones that are lighter than 5 lbs and would leave my wallet heavier? Thanks for your help. phill --------------------------------- Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:19:15 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: re: shop size From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Built mine in a 24 * 24...Seemed plenty big enough for the HDS. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: re: shop size --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith do not archive The First Rule of Physics is: "Junk expands to fill all available space". Regardless of size, it still won't be large enough. Check the Boeing web site.....theirs are full, too. Every situation is different, but the first plane I built was in a 30 x 30. Thirty-two foot wings went on okay sitting diagonally in the building, but had to come off to get outside the ten-foot door. (Boat-in-the-basement syndrome) If there is any way to enlarge the area I'd sure consider doing so. Storage of finished parts (wings, etc) can also be a problem. Regards, Zed/701/R912/etc/90+% ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:26:29 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Shop size From: "David X" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" [Idea] If you can manage to rent a 40 foot hanger, that would be an alternate solution. The rent might even be less than the building costs of your shop (depending on where you live) ... or if you live on a filed, build the hanger instead. Building in a hanger also solves the problem of transport and reassembly when it's time to test fly it. I have my 601XL in a 40 foot hanger. There is a 15x5 open section on each side of the plane and another 15x6 open section behind the tail. I keep my benches, tools etc in these sections. do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2539#2539 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:52 AM PST US From: "Dave Covert" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Shop size --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Covert" How tall is the building? I plan on hoisting my finished parts up into the rafters so as to conserve floor and wall space. It would help if you could get things up out of the way. Dave 701-wanna-be -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hines Subject: Zenith-List: Shop size --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" --> I am about to begin my Zodiac XL project. I'm going to the workshop next week and bringing the tail kit home with me. I don't have room for anything else. I'm planning on building an 18 x 20 shop in the spring so I have room to build the rest. Do you guys think that is big enough? By my calculations I should be able to put it together and attach one wing at a time and still walk around it. Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, John ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:57 AM PST US From: Don Mountain Subject: Zenith-List: Threaded Gas Filler Neck Sealer --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain I am getting ready to rivet up the top skin on my 601 XL wing, and wonder what to use as a sealer on the gas tank screw in filler neck cap threads. I am planning to rivet the top and nose skins on, then put some sort of sealer on the gas tank internal threads and on the screw in gas cap piece, and screw it in tight against the nose skin. But I am not sure what to buy, or what not to buy for this application. It probably needs to be something that is semi-ridged when set up, and gasoline proof of course. And won't leak. The filler neck appears to just screw in until it contacts the skin, and not all the way down to some sort of mating flare or something that would seal it up. Don 601 XL, tail done, working on wings --------------------------------- Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:00 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Flap actuator From: "lgingell" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lgingell" That sounds like the beast. I got my kit from ZAC, and it included a flap motor that had a sticker "Weight: 5lbs" on it, along with limit switches. I believe this same thing may have been/is used on Cessna's too. It is an "aircraft part" rather than a multipurpose motor, which would explain the cost. Feels like it weighs more than the rest of my airframe. I just looked at my parts list, and it is D1450036-3. ..lance (who barley uses his flaps...) -------- Zodiac XL/Jab 3300 http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2552#2552 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:19 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flap actuator --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Phill: I'm a plans builder and used a Warner Electrak 1, linear actuator that seems to work well although I haven't made my first flight yet. The following series of pictures should help you see what I did as well as show a part number you can read from the photograph. It was pretty simple to get the geometry right so that it uses up all the travel. I prefer this actuator over the one ZAC uses because it has internal limit switches. This is why you want it to use up all the travel in both directions. It goes to full travel in about 6 seconds. http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_21_04_Flaps.JPG http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_21_04_Flaps2.JPG http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_27_04_Actuator.JPG http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_17_04_Actuator.JPG I have other photographs posted on my "Fuselage" page of this installation. Send me a private email if you have further questions. Scott Laughlin 601XL / Corvair www.cooknwithgas.com working on FWF --- 601corvair wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: 601corvair > > > Ok folks I am about to open a can of worms with > this question and I do it as a last resort and with > several caveats. I need some info about the flap > actuator on the XL. > Are you plans builders getting this part from ZAC? > I have found some aluminum ones that are lighter > than 5 lbs and would leave my wallet heavier? > > Thanks for your help. phill > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 11:14:33 AM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flap actuator --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> The XL actuator I received from ZAC has that part number, is a Commercial Aircraft Products item, and weighs 71.1 ounces. ----- Original Message ----- From: "601corvair" To: "Zenith list" Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 12:16 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Flap actuator > --> Zenith-List message posted by: 601corvair > > Ok folks I am about to open a can of worms with this question and I do it as a last resort and with several caveats. I need some info about the flap actuator on the XL. My partner and I are HDS builders who, because and for no other good reason than we WANT to, are designing and installing flaps on our HDS. We have designs for electrical and mechanical instillations and are assessing the financial and weight costs for both. > > I talked to ZAC about parts numbers and costs ( because this is not on the HDS plans I have). It is possible that I did not clearly articulate what I was asking, but I was told that the flaps actuator weights 5 lbs, is part number D1450036-3 and costs $584.85. Does this track with what you KNOW to be true? If anyone knows the exact weight I would appreciate transmitting this information. It would also be helpful to know how long it is, what the travel is, an how much force it can generate. I am assuming it comes with range limit switches etc. Are you plans builders getting this part from ZAC? I have found some aluminum ones that are lighter than 5 lbs and would leave my wallet heavier? > > Thanks for your help. phill > > > > --------------------------------- > Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 11:53:45 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: re: 601 XL Autopilot? From: "Gig Giacona" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" Tony, do you have any photos of the servos mounted in your plane? I'm thinking I'll go with the Trio and would like to see the installation. tonyplane(at)bellsouth.ne wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "T. Graziano" > > I have a Trio EZ Pilot II in my XL. It receives input from my Garmin 295. > Works great. No problems in installation. Simple hookup to the Garmin NMEA > 0183 data stream. It does not have altituude hold. I use minor throttle > adjustments and/or trim to hold altitude. > > Tony Graziano > 601XL N493TG > -------- W.R. Gig Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2592#2592 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 11:55:53 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Shop size From: "steveadams" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "steveadams" While more space is always better, your shop should be plenty big enough. I built my CH640 using a single bay of a 3 car garage, and that included having to keep my QB fuselage in there for the whole build. I had to roll it outside to fit the wings, but otherwise, it was easily done. For storage I used wall and ceiling space. I would discourage trying to build it in a hanger, unless the airport is across the street. It is often easy to find 20-30 minutes here and there to work on the plane if it's right outside your door, which really adds up and speeds the project along. If your plane is at the airport, you'll spend a lot of unproductive time going back and forth, and need a considerable block of time available to justify going over to do some work. Make it as convenient and comfortable as possible to work on the plane, and you will finish it in a reasonable time. Just my 2 cents. do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2594#2594 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 12:47:01 PM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Shop size --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland John, That's plenty of space for building, but the key is organizing the space you use so that parts and assemblies don't overwhelm your area. Practice a tight inventory, good clean up and white surfaced work tables etc. Overhead lighting is real important. I plans built my 601HDS in a double garage, but the wife's car had to fit inside every night. Put your table(s) on casters. Good luck, Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive John Hines wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" > >I am about to begin my Zodiac XL project. I'm going to the workshop >next week and bringing the tail kit home with me. I don't have room for >anything else. I'm planning on building an 18 x 20 shop in the spring >so I have room to build the rest. Do you guys think that is big enough? >By my calculations I should be able to put it together and attach one >wing at a time and still walk around it. Any comments or suggestions >would be appreciated. > >Thanks, > >John > > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 12:47:01 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: re: 601 XL Autopilot? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" Somebody (possibly Tony) sent me some pictures of servos in a 601 but now I can't find them. They may have been for a different AP but that doesn't matter because the servos of the different manufactures are roughly laid out the same. If any one has pictures e-mail them to me and I'll put then in the photo archive. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gig Giacona Subject: Zenith-List: re: 601 XL Autopilot? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" Tony, do you have any photos of the servos mounted in your plane? I'm thinking I'll go with the Trio and would like to see the installation. tonyplane(at)bellsouth.ne wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "T. Graziano" > > I have a Trio EZ Pilot II in my XL. It receives input from my Garmin 295. > Works great. No problems in installation. Simple hookup to the Garmin > NMEA > 0183 data stream. It does not have altituude hold. I use minor > throttle adjustments and/or trim to hold altitude. > > Tony Graziano > 601XL N493TG > -------- W.R. Gig Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2592#2592 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 01:22:12 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect --> Zenith-List message posted by: Most folks keep the canopy slightly open until just before takeoff in warm weather to get a little more air in the cockpit. There is a gizmo I've seen in a friends RV7-A which is a retractable sunshade that works on a track mounted along the center line of the canopy with pressure sensitive adhesive. We slide it all the way back for full visibility and extend it forward as much as needed at cruise altitude. I'm going to that in my 601XL because Louisiana is way too close to the sun. Ed > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 01:32:26 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Shop size From: "David X" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" steveadams wrote: > I would discourage trying to build it in a hanger, unless the airport is across the street. > do not archive It kinda depends on the circumstance. Although my plane is compelted, there is always something else I want to do to it or to do maintenenace etc. I picked a hanger near my job so that I could stop by after work for a few hours away from the wife. She's very supportive of my flying, but if I'm home, she ownes me. [Rolling Eyes] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2612#2612 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 01:35:06 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect From: "Larry McFarland" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Doug, I'd stay with the low wing as visibility is excellent in the 601s. Last year I flew off the 40 hours and there were just a few days that reached mid 90s. So long as I wore a ball cap and sunglasses, things were mostly comfortable. On a couple of days, I found myself overheated because of the intense humidity and I'd not been drinking enough water. The canopy does allow a lot of heat to be radiated in, so wear the hat and do spend some time putting vents in or below the panel that you can focus air toward your face. Try to fly a bit higher when it becomes unbearably warm to take in cooler air. It will really make a difference. These links show my $2. vents and they work great. http://www.macsmachine.com/images/largeassembly2/full/outletvent.gif http://www.macsmachine.com/images/largeassembly2/full/freshairassy.gif http://www.macsmachine.com/images/largeassembly2/full/NACAvent.gif good luck, Larry -------- Larry McFarland - 601HDS - Stratus Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2622#2622 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 02:06:13 PM PST US From: "jim" Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jim" Do you have a web URL where I could go and see what this gizmo looks like? Jim Jim Pellien Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes www.MASPL.com 703-313-4818 jim@sportsplanes.com ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: > >Most folks keep the canopy slightly open until just before takeoff in warm weather to get a little more air in the cockpit. > >There is a gizmo I've seen in a friends RV7-A which is a retractable sunshade that works on a track mounted along the center line of the canopy with pressure sensitive adhesive. We slide it all the way back for full visibility and extend it forward as much as needed at cruise altitude. I'm going to that in my 601XL because Louisiana is way too close to the sun. > >Ed > >> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect > > > > > > > Sent via the WebMail system at mail.pellien.com ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 02:16:24 PM PST US From: Gpjann@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Info --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gpjann@aol.com Ref: Zodiac 601HDS Corvair Power Warp Drive two blade prop I'm looking for anyone who is using 601/Corvair/2 blade WD prop and would like to gather info on pitch setting you are using or have used along with results. Would appreciate any info you can provide. Greg Jannakos gpjann@aol.com ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:25 PM PST US From: Gpjann@AOL.COM Subject: Zenith-List: Zodiac 601 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gpjann@aol.com I am located in the greater Atlanta, Ga area and would like to find out if anyone is interested in having a gathering of anyone interested in the Zodiac 601 airplanes. The main purpose of the gathering is to meet and exchange information. Please contact me if you are interested. Greg Jannakos 770-277-1637 gpjann@aol.com ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 02:27:42 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Looking for a DAR in MN, ND, SD From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin Go to : http://makeashorterlink.com/?T2491227C Click on the "DAR directory" link. This will download a PDF file with a list of DARs by category (manufacturing or maintenance) and by state within each category. Look for a DAR in either category with Function 46, which is Experimental Amateur Built. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive. on 1/10/06 11:19 AM, Brad Larson at blarson@meridianhouse.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brad Larson > > Does anyone have a reference for a DAR in MN,ND,SD? > > I've been waiting on the one here in Fargo, ND for three months and cant > seem to get to the top of his priority list. > > I have a friend that is just starting a RV-10 in Fergus Falls, MN that > is concerned for the same reason. > > Brad. > > Do Not Archive > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 02:37:28 PM PST US From: ron dewees Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Looking for a DAR in MN, ND, SD --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees Brad, Don't want to start another feud here but have you considered applying to the nearest FSDO of the FAA? My application took about a month from application to inspection and cost nothing. Most DARs are getting $400 to $500 now. Most builders that use them justify the expense because DARs are able to come out quickly, but that is clearly not your experience. Ron DeWees do not archive Brad Larson wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brad Larson > >Does anyone have a reference for a DAR in MN,ND,SD? > >I've been waiting on the one here in Fargo, ND for three months and cant >seem to get to the top of his priority list. > >I have a friend that is just starting a RV-10 in Fergus Falls, MN that >is concerned for the same reason. > >Brad. > >Do Not Archive > > > > ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:44 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: shop size From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin I built my zodiac in an 8 1/2' by 24' cargo trailer parked in a outdoor storage lot. I used a long extension cord to tap power from one to the storage buildings 30 yards away. I had just enough power to run my lights, the battery charger for my drill and a small air compressor for the rivet puller. I built the first wing and then hung it on one side wall of the trailer then built the other wing. After I finished the wings, I hauled them up north to my dad's garage and built a shelf along the back wall to store them. Then I towed the trailer back down to the lot and started working on the fuselage. I did the final assembly at a rented hangar at the airport down the road from my dad's house. I think I'd get lost in an 18 X 20 workshop. :) -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" > > I am about to begin my Zodiac XL project. I'm going to the workshop > next week and bringing the tail kit home with me. I don't have room for > anything else. I'm planning on building an 18 x 20 shop in the spring > so I have room to build the rest. Do you guys think that is big enough? > By my calculations I should be able to put it together and attach one > wing at a time and still walk around it. Any comments or suggestions > would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > > John ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 02:45:01 PM PST US From: Craig Moore Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect --> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Moore Jim, http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1136932743-0-756&browse=airframe&product=koger-shade Craig Moore A&P 701 Builder wannabe --- jim wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jim" > > > Do you have a web URL where I could go and see what > this gizmo looks like? > > Jim > > Jim Pellien > Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes > www.MASPL.com > 703-313-4818 > jim@sportsplanes.com > > > > ---------- Original Message > ---------------------------------- > From: > Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 16:18:20 -0500 > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: > > > > >Most folks keep the canopy slightly open until just > before takeoff in warm weather to get a little more > air in the cockpit. > > > >There is a gizmo I've seen in a friends RV7-A which > is a retractable sunshade that works on a track > mounted along the center line of the canopy with > pressure sensitive adhesive. We slide it all the way > back for full visibility and extend it forward as > much as needed at cruise altitude. I'm going to that > in my 601XL because Louisiana is way too close to > the sun. > > > >Ed > > > >> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: scenery flying/ > greenhouse effect > > ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:03 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Looking for a DAR in MN, ND, SD From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin My local FSDO told me it would be at least 90 days before they could even schedule an inspection. I called a DAR and he flew up in his RV-6 about three weeks later for the inspection. It cost me $350. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive. on 1/10/06 5:36 PM, ron dewees at rdewees@mindspring.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees > > Brad, > Don't want to start another feud here but have you considered applying > to the nearest FSDO of the FAA? My application took about a month from > application to inspection and cost nothing. Most DARs are getting $400 > to $500 now. Most builders that use them justify the expense because > DARs are able to come out quickly, but that is clearly not your experience. > > Ron DeWees > > do not archive > > Brad Larson wrote: > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brad Larson >> >> Does anyone have a reference for a DAR in MN,ND,SD? >> >> I've been waiting on the one here in Fargo, ND for three months and cant >> seem to get to the top of his priority list. >> >> I have a friend that is just starting a RV-10 in Fergus Falls, MN that >> is concerned for the same reason. >> >> Brad. >> >> Do Not Archive >> ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 03:11:27 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Info --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" How about asking William Wynne? He is flying exactly that. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gpjann@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Info --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gpjann@aol.com Ref: Zodiac 601HDS Corvair Power Warp Drive two blade prop I'm looking for anyone who is using 601/Corvair/2 blade WD prop and would like to gather info on pitch setting you are using or have used along with results. Would appreciate any info you can provide. Greg Jannakos gpjann@aol.com ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 03:20:35 PM PST US From: Maarten Versteeg Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Right seat flying --> Zenith-List message posted by: Maarten Versteeg Thanks for the responses and ideas, it didn't immediately bring a solution but gave me more aspects to consider. I still have more than enough time to consider but it is not something you can easily change once a decision is taken. - I am happy that no major problems were raised, it will certainly take some time getting used to but it should not be much different from learning to fly a different plane. - I don't have so much a concern about the Y stick, as said, I liked the feel of the center stick and it was very easy to lay down my arm and control the plane with small movements in a relaxed way. - Having a knee pad is probably even simpler than in a cessna where it always conflicts with joke movements. - I understand that in most cases you can just let the plane fly itself, but ATC always seems to manage to give information when there are thermals around or when I am maneuvering, so I would like to keep my hands close if not on the stick. - I like the idea of an autopilot but I am not sure if that would be high enough on the priority list to be installed immediately, it may have to wait a little. - I understand that resale value may be important, but I plan on flying the plane and only by building your own plane you have the unique possibility to make it fit your preferences. Again thanks for the ideas, Maarten ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 03:30:30 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect --> Zenith-List message posted by: Yep, that's the device. Thanks for the info. Ed > > From: Craig Moore > Date: 2006/01/10 Tue PM 05:43:19 EST > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Moore > > Jim, > > http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1136932743-0-756&browse=airframe&product=koger-shade > > Craig Moore > A&P > 701 Builder wannabe > > --- jim wrote: > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jim" > > > > > > Do you have a web URL where I could go and see what > > this gizmo looks like? > > > > Jim > > > > Jim Pellien > > Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes > > www.MASPL.com > > 703-313-4818 > > jim@sportsplanes.com > > > > > > > > ---------- Original Message > > ---------------------------------- > > From: > > Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 16:18:20 -0500 > > > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: > > > > > > > >Most folks keep the canopy slightly open until just > > before takeoff in warm weather to get a little more > > air in the cockpit. > > > > > >There is a gizmo I've seen in a friends RV7-A which > > is a retractable sunshade that works on a track > > mounted along the center line of the canopy with > > pressure sensitive adhesive. We slide it all the way > > back for full visibility and extend it forward as > > much as needed at cruise altitude. I'm going to that > > in my 601XL because Louisiana is way too close to > > the sun. > > > > > >Ed > > > > > >> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: scenery flying/ > > greenhouse effect > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 03:43:51 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: re: shop size --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" Make the ceiling as high as possible. This allows for easier movement of larger pieces and for hanging storage of flying surfaces during fuselage construction. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: re: shop size --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith do not archive The First Rule of Physics is: "Junk expands to fill all available space". Regardless of size, it still won't be large enough. Check the Boeing web site.....theirs are full, too. Every situation is different, but the first plane I built was in a 30 x 30. Thirty-two foot wings went on okay sitting diagonally in the building, but had to come off to get outside the ten-foot door. (Boat-in-the-basement syndrome) If there is any way to enlarge the area I'd sure consider doing so. Storage of finished parts (wings, etc) can also be a problem. Regards, Zed/701/R912/etc/90+% -- 1/10/2006 -- 1/10/2006 ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:47 PM PST US From: "David Alberti" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Alberti" As an aside to this issue Plexiglas does not block any of the UV rays as glass will. Last spring I found myself quite red after a four hour jaunt through clear blue sky's. Now I pack sunscreen, especially in early spring. I also installed a Koger sunshade on the canopy this last fall. Dave 601-HD 912ULS --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" ........ Last year I flew off the 40 hours and there were just a few days that reached mid 90s. So long as I wore a ball cap and sunglasses, things were mostly comfortable. On a couple of days, I found myself overheated because of the intense humidity and I'd not been drinking enough water. The canopy does allow a lot of heat to be radiated in, so wear the hat and do spend some time putting vents in or below the panel that you can focus air toward your face. Try to fly a bit higher when it becomes unbearably warm to take in cooler air. It will really make a difference. _ ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 05:26:26 PM PST US From: "Randy Stout" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Info --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" Greg I like mine set at 8.5 degrees at the tips. That allows me to spin it at 3400 rpm. Max speed: 122 MPH, cruise @3100 RPM: 107 MPH ROC: 1000 FPM. My prop is a 64" Warp Randy Stout n282rs"at"earthlink.net www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 1/10/2006 4:15:47 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Info > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gpjann@aol.com > > Ref: Zodiac 601HDS > Corvair Power > Warp Drive two blade prop > > I'm looking for anyone who is using 601/Corvair/2 blade WD prop and would > like to gather info on pitch setting you are using or have used along with > results. > Would appreciate any info you can provide. > > Greg Jannakos > gpjann@aol.com > > ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:12 PM PST US From: "Ron Crook" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 701 battery location? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Crook" Here something to ponder? >From: Zed Smith >Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: 701 battery location? >Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:32:56 -0600 (GMT-06:00) > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith > >do not archive > >Can anyone offer comment on possible CG problems in the following: > >Standard 701 kit with standard 912 engine, standard ZAC wing tanks (10 >gallons per wing) and NOT using the ZAC-supplied header tank; no floats, >skis, bomb doors, arresting hook, onboard potty or food service. > >The ZAC assembly photos (ZAC web site) plainly show the battery just behind >the right seat. >However.......some builder sites show a tail-mounted battery. Larry's >excellent site, for example. > >Do some other engines (Harley or Subaru) weigh more, therefore requiring >the extra weight aft? > >I'm 165 pounds, including headset and gimme cap, and would rarely ever have >a passenger. > >It's not too late to install a rear hatch, just more work. > >Comments, gentlemen? > >Thanks, > >Zed/701/R912/90+% etc > > Take charge with a pop-up guard built on patented Microsoft SmartScreen Technology. Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:38 PM PST US From: "Randy Stout" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zodiac 601 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" I was wondering about a similar deal only a Zenith gathering, not just a 601 gathering. Modeled after the gatherings that the KR people have. I didn't want to bring it up because I have too much going on in my life to be able to sponsor one. It requires several dedicated people to put one of these things on. It also requires donations to fund it, especially to get it started. The KR guys nominate and vote on a place to meet around the same time every year. I went to one in Perry OK back in 97 (I think). They had someone showing how to do fiberglass layups, someone assembling VW engines, another explaining flight testing,....etc. Those with flying airplanes would usually do demo flights. Saturday night there is normally a banquet. We have the facillites at San Geronimo (8t8) to hold such a thing...EAA clubhouse w/kitchen, camping, super large grill/smoker, and at least one hangar (assuming my hangar mate goes along). Like I said I can't host the thing. But if you are going to have one in Atlanta, spit out a date, so I can put it on my vacation schedule. Maybe I can make it. Randy Stout n282rs"at"earthlink.net www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 1/10/2006 4:21:34 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Zodiac 601 > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gpjann@aol.com > > I am located in the greater Atlanta, Ga area and would like to find out if > anyone is interested in having a gathering of anyone interested in the Zodiac > 601 airplanes. > The main purpose of the gathering is to meet and exchange information. > Please contact me if you are interested. > Greg Jannakos > 770-277-1637 > gpjann@aol.com > > ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:49 PM PST US From: "Paul Moore" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Looking for a DAR in MN, ND, SD --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Moore" Go here http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/designees_delegations/desig nee_types/dar/ At the bottom there is a link to the DAR directory Paul XL - O200 ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:01 PM PST US From: "Paul Moore" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Right seat flying --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Moore" Most of the popular intercoms have limited digital recording add-ons for catching clearances and directions from ATC. Or, a good digital recorder weighing a few ounces and able to record for hours at a time only costs a hundred bucks or so. Both much easier than dealing with a RH setup. Paul Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:19 PM PST US From: ron dewees Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zodiac 601 --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees Hi Greg, Count me in on the meeting. I would love to see more folks gather to chat about the 601 series of planes and swap ideas. We have a local Yahoo website set up for greater Atlanta 601 builders or flyers. It's http://groups.yahoo.com/group/601_HD-HDS/ Come join us! I think I know of at least a couple more 601's in the area and others that are under construction. Thanks for the invite. Ron DeWees do not archive Gpjann@aol.com wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gpjann@aol.com > >I am located in the greater Atlanta, Ga area and would like to find out if >anyone is interested in having a gathering of anyone interested in the Zodiac >601 airplanes. >The main purpose of the gathering is to meet and exchange information. >Please contact me if you are interested. >Greg Jannakos >770-277-1637 >gpjann@aol.com > > > > ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:09 PM PST US From: ron dewees Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees I had the same problem flying last summer in my HDS and am "follicle challenged" north of my ears so I was very sensitive to cutting down the heat/UV/ and glare. I went to the local Pep Boy's parts store and paid about $5 for a pair of sun screens that are attached with suction cups on the corners. They are a black mesh of some sort and the frame is wire. You just wad them up and they will fit in a small space as long as you can confine them. You can look thru them easily and I would estimate that the glare is cut by 30% or more. you can remove or reposition them easily and throw them away after the hot season passes if they are too dirty. I guess the dimensions are something like 8X14 inches and two of them cover a lot of the overhead canopy. Worked for me! Ron do not archive David Alberti wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Alberti" > >As an aside to this issue Plexiglas does not block any of the UV rays as >glass will. Last spring I found myself quite red after a four hour jaunt >through clear blue sky's. Now I pack sunscreen, especially in early spring. >I also installed a Koger sunshade on the canopy this last fall. > >Dave 601-HD 912ULS > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" > >........ Last year I flew off the 40 hours and there were just a few days >that reached mid 90s. So long as I wore a ball cap and sunglasses, things >were mostly comfortable. > >On a couple of days, I found myself overheated because of the intense >humidity and I'd not been drinking enough water. The canopy does allow a lot >of heat to be radiated in, so wear the hat and do spend some time putting >vents in or below the panel that you can focus air toward your face. Try to >fly a bit higher when it becomes unbearably warm to take in cooler air. It >will really make a difference. >_ > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:49 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zodiac 601 --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Greg, sounds like a good idea. We have three at Thomsaton (XL, HD, HDS) I am sure a few fellows would be interested, Bill ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:30 PM PST US From: "Larry" Subject: Zenith-List: Harley Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" BlankThe question below was e-mailed to me by Tracy Smith. He has AOL, I could not respond, AOL blocked me. So here is the question(s) and my answer. Hope you don't mind Tracy, but you really need to trash AOL, it sucks. You probably miss a lot of e-mails, they, AOL, Earthlink and another one, I can't remember the third one, were rated by computer magazine a while back as the worst three. They are too zealous with their spam controls. That's not my opinion, it's what the magazine said. Anyway, that's why you didn't get an answer, I answer all my e-mails. QUESTIONS I have a question regarding the Harley installation. Being an Evo owner (1987 Harley Tour Glide) I'm very familiar with the Motor Company and the Twin-Cam. My question is what i see as a lack of redundancy in the HD ignition system. There is ONE hall-effect pickup, one processor, etc. This scares me a bit. Did you or Brett do anything to address this? I was at Sun & Fun and this question was carefully sidestepped along with a lack of carb heat on his demo installation (NOT the 601XL installation that he sold). Another question: would this installation lend itself to an Ivoporp electrically-adjustable prop? The Corvair I am also looking at will NOT. MY ANSWER. To the best of my knowledge there is no dual ignition available. It doesn't worry me. It is extremely rare for one of the new ignition systems to fail. When and if they do fail, they just don't start. I've never seen one fail while running. You don't need carb heat, the carb sits between and a little behind the cylinders. It get all the heat it needs. Can't address the prop thing. I know nothing about it Larry Martin, www.skyhawg.com ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:51 PM PST US From: MaresAlf2@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel tank sending units for 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: MaresAlf2@aol.com Hi Bill Am building A 701 Plan on aux . gas . send an address and ship cost for two senders AlfPeterson 2112 Zeno Pl Venice Calif 90291 _Maresalf2@aol.com_ (mailto:Maresalf2@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:33 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith plane tours --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" We have actually been planning this very thing, plus a one week tour with firm departures and arrival airports, travel at your own speed. In other words 640's arrange the parking and fuel and campsites at the airport, plus go to town for the food run, 601's prepare dinner, 801's setup the camping site with all the gear they haul and the 701's do the dishes after they touchdown to a hot meal! But unfortunately we are unable to do it this year. But keep the ideas coming for such an adventure. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" I was wondering about a similar deal only a Zenith gathering, not just a 601 gathering. Modeled after the gatherings that the KR people have. I didn't want to bring it up because I have too much going on in my life to be able to sponsor one. It requires several dedicated people to put one of these things on. It also requires donations to fund it, especially to get it started. The KR guys nominate and vote on a place to meet around the same time every year. I went to one in Perry OK back in 97 (I think). They had someone showing how to do fiberglass layups, someone assembling VW engines, another explaining flight testing,....etc. Those with flying airplanes would usually do demo flights. Saturday night there is normally a banquet. We have the facillites at San Geronimo (8t8) to hold such a thing...EAA clubhouse w/kitchen, camping, super large grill/smoker, and at least one hangar (assuming my hangar mate goes along). Like I said I can't host the thing. But if you are going to have one in Atlanta, spit out a date, so I can put it on my vacation schedule. Maybe I can make it. Randy Stout n282rs"at"earthlink.net www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 -- 1/10/2006 ________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:54 PM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect --> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" Me too...but because I run the Young Eagles for my EAA Chapter and we also encourage parents to fly with us, we refer to ourselves are the Apple Valley Air Corps Bald Eagles. 8*). Hey it always breaks the ice & gets a laugh or two. KABONG Do Not Archive. HRII N561FS approaching 300 hrs. Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: scenery flying/ greenhouse effect > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees > am "follicle challenged" ________________________________ Message 63 ____________________________________ Time: 09:38:36 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Constant torque hose clamps From: "David X" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" I have a Rotax 912 engine in my 601XL. One of the oil hoses will leak where it connects to the oil cooler. It's a relatively new hose. I've retightened the clamp several times, but it will leak again after a few cross country trips. I've even replaced the clamp with a wider, stainless steel clamp with an internal sleeve. I think it's a case of differential thermal expansion - the rubber hose and the stainless steel clamp don't expand equally - which deforms the hose over time ("cold flow"). I was thinking of trying a Breeze constant torque clamp (http://www.breezeclamps.com/ct.htm) and tightening it to about 40 inch pounds. Has anyone else run into this sort of problem with hoses and was it solved using a spring clamp? -------- do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2764#2764 ________________________________ Message 64 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:49 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Constant torque hose clamps From: "Bill Cardell" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Cardell" We use the breeze clamps in our turbo kits with good success. Probably the ultimate in self adjustment would be spring clamps like the factories use on modern cars. Can be a pain to deal with, but work very well. TurboDog's Dad Bill Cardell www.flyinmiata.com 1-800-FLY-MX5S 970-242-3800 Subject: Zenith-List: Constant torque hose clamps --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" I have a Rotax 912 engine in my 601XL. One of the oil hoses will leak where it connects to the oil cooler. It's a relatively new hose. I've retightened the clamp several times, but it will leak again after a few cross country trips. I've even replaced the clamp with a wider, stainless steel clamp with an internal sleeve. I think it's a case of differential thermal expansion - the rubber hose and the stainless steel clamp don't expand equally - which deforms the hose over time ("cold flow"). I was thinking of trying a Breeze constant torque clamp (http://www.breezeclamps.com/ct.htm) and tightening it to about 40 inch pounds. Has anyone else run into this sort of problem with hoses and was it solved using a spring clamp? ============================================================ ________________________________ Message 65 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:02 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Zenith-List: Our Zenith 701 is in Airliners.net !!! Cant believe it! Great honor. Larry Gower" , Cesar dela Garza , tagore05@hotmail.com.0.00.MANY_EXCLAMATIONS.Subject.has.many.exclamations --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower hello Friends, A friend (Memo) just called me, he saw a photo of our Yellow and White 701 in www.airliners.net page! Is Great to see the airplane we built,and fly in this famous web page! Thanks to the great Mexican Airplane Photographer Rafael Cordero. Search for "Rafeal Cordero" in the Airliners web page., in his most recent photos, the ones about our local Fly Inn "Flyers 2005" there are the photos, the 701 has the (photo ID 977561) Our 701 STOL ultralight was piloted by Larry my brother in the Airshow doing a STOL demo in front of the croud.. Another friend Guillermo "Memo" Villanueva was piloting the white Piper PA-18. A very known airplane here, Flys low and slow over the city with powerfull speakers. with advertisement and pulling signs... (photo ID 978029) Memo is 20, just finished his Comercial licence and is going to airline training, he also put a couple of hours building our 701... I know his family since he was about 5 years old... Well just a proud 701 STOL builder, pilot and owner... Saludos Gary Gower --------------------------------- Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. ________________________________ Message 66 ____________________________________ Time: 10:55:14 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Shop size --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Yes, mainly when you forgot something you needed (tool or part) and the airport is a long drive away. Our hangar is 40 minutes from home (in light trafic). So we were happy to build it over our factory, we had all the tools we could need, . The only problem was happy working and forget how late is in the night was to go hone... Saludos Gary Gower Do not archive. steveadams wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "steveadams" While more space is always better, your shop should be plenty big enough. I built my CH640 using a single bay of a 3 car garage, and that included having to keep my QB fuselage in there for the whole build. I had to roll it outside to fit the wings, but otherwise, it was easily done. For storage I used wall and ceiling space. I would discourage trying to build it in a hanger, unless the airport is across the street. It is often easy to find 20-30 minutes here and there to work on the plane if it's right outside your door, which really adds up and speeds the project along. If your plane is at the airport, you'll spend a lot of unproductive time going back and forth, and need a considerable block of time available to justify going over to do some work. Make it as convenient and comfortable as possible to work on the plane, and you will finish it in a reasonable time. Just my 2 cents. do not archive --------------------------------- Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.