Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:29 AM - Re: Proper Deburring Technique (Hunt Malcolm)
2. 03:10 AM - Loctite for Canopy Sealer (Jonathan Starke)
3. 03:16 AM - Re: Proper Deburring Technique (Gbrac80@aol.com)
4. 03:40 AM - Re: Loctite for Canopy Sealer (Bryan Martin)
5. 05:19 AM - Re: Proper Deburring Technique (Bob Unternaehrer)
6. 05:19 AM - Re: Proper Deburring Technique (Bob Unternaehrer)
7. 05:25 AM - Re: has anyone dimpled their XL? Dimpled Vs. Raised rivets (Condon, Philip M.)
8. 06:47 AM - Re: Proper Deburring Technique (Larry McFarland)
9. 06:50 AM - Definitive hole deburring (Geoff Heap)
10. 06:56 AM - Re: has anyone dimpled their XL? Dimpled Vs. Raised rivets (James Ferris)
11. 06:58 AM - Re: Loctite for Canopy Sealer (Larry McFarland)
12. 07:01 AM - Rudder workshop this week (John Hines)
13. 07:02 AM - Gas Tank Cleaning (Don Mountain)
14. 07:39 AM - 701 Forced Landing (Craig Moore)
15. 08:07 AM - Re: Gas Tank Cleaning (Paul Mulwitz)
16. 08:15 AM - Re: has anyone dimpled their XL? (Gig Giacona)
17. 08:21 AM - Re: Rudder workshop this week (Gig Giacona)
18. 08:31 AM - Re: Re: has anyone dimpled their XL? (Dave Austin)
19. 08:33 AM - Re: Re: Rudder workshop this week (John Hines)
20. 08:56 AM - Re: Proper Deburring Technique (ken smith)
21. 09:50 AM - Re: Re: has anyone dimpled their XL? (JOHN STARN)
22. 10:08 AM - Re: Rudder workshop this week (MUL-T-LOCK TEL 212 22 220 748 - GSM 212 61 338 838)
23. 10:08 AM - Re: Rudder workshop this week (MUL-T-LOCK TEL 212 22 220 748 - GSM 212 61 338 838)
24. 10:08 AM - Re: Rudder workshop this week (MUL-T-LOCK TEL 212 22 220 748 - GSM 212 61 338 838)
25. 10:08 AM - Re: Rudder workshop this week (MUL-T-LOCK TEL 212 22 220 748 - GSM 212 61 338 838)
26. 10:08 AM - Re: Rudder workshop this week (MUL-T-LOCK TEL 212 22 220 748 - GSM 212 61 338 838)
27. 10:08 AM - Re: Rudder workshop this week (MUL-T-LOCK TEL 212 22 220 748 - GSM 212 61 338 838)
28. 10:08 AM - Re: Rudder workshop this week (MUL-T-LOCK TEL 212 22 220 748 - GSM 212 61 338 838)
29. 11:01 AM - Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts? (N5SL)
30. 11:12 AM - Re: Gas Tank Cleaning (Bob Unternaehrer)
31. 11:17 AM - Re: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts? (Craig Payne)
32. 11:40 AM - Re: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts? (Don Mountain)
33. 11:53 AM - Ref to using XL's fw for a HDS (Gpjann@aol.com)
34. 01:17 PM - Re: Gas Tank Cleaning (Larry McFarland)
35. 01:29 PM - Re: 701 Forced Landing (Larry McFarland)
36. 01:29 PM - Re: Re: has anyone dimpled their XL? (Dave G.)
37. 01:41 PM - Re: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts? (Thilo Kind)
38. 01:52 PM - Re: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts? (Larry McFarland)
39. 02:03 PM - Re: 701 Forced Landing (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
40. 02:03 PM - fuel sender leak (Gordon)
41. 02:19 PM - Re: Re: has anyone dimpled their XL? (James Ferris)
42. 03:24 PM - Re: Re: has anyone dimpled their XL? (JOHN STARN)
43. 04:47 PM - Re: Definitive hole deburring (Jim Hoak)
44. 07:21 PM - Re: 701 Forced Landing (Larry)
45. 08:54 PM - Re: Gas Tank Cleaning (David Alberti)
46. 10:03 PM - Re: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts? (Gary Gower)
47. 10:32 PM - Re: fuel sender leak (NYTerminat@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Proper Deburring Technique |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hunt Malcolm" <Malcolm.HUNT@networkrail.co.uk>
Dave
I use a hand held countersink bit but you need a very delicate touch
when using on aluminium, I aim to get the merest bright ring around the
edge of the hole (less than one thou') as I figure this is better than a
slight ridge. It is very quick and no wear yet on the countersink (new
when started) yet. Also works with 4130N.
Just a thought- it works for me, no scratches from files and looks very
professional.
Regards
Malcolm
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
VanLanen
Sent: 17 January 2006 03:17
Subject: Zenith-List: Proper Deburring Technique
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen"
<davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
I have a procedural question regarding deburring. How much is enough in
terms of material removed? If I use the file technique with a light
touch
to avoid scratches, or if I use the drill bit technique with minimal
turns
to avoid countersinking, it will take off the noticeable burrs.
However, if
I run my fingernail towards the hole, there is still a slight "ridge"
right
at the edge of the hole. Do I need to get all of this material off, so
that
there is absolutely no "raised" area at all? If I do that with the
file, it
tends to scratch the surface. If I try to remove it with additional
turns
of the drill bit, it looks like it may be starting to countersink the
hole,
which I know you're not supposed to do.
Any advice for me?
Thanks,
Dave Van Lanen
Madison, WI
601 XL
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Loctite for Canopy Sealer |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jonathan Starke" <jonathan@entry.co.za>
Hi All wise listers,
I am in South Africa, and I cannot source the Loctite Product P/N 23782 , as
recommended by ZAC to glue the Rubber Seal on The canopy. I have tried to
order the Adhesive from ZAC, but they do not supply it.
My Question is: Does anyone know of an alternative glue that can be used for
Acrylic to Rubber bonding.
Thnx
Jonathan Starke
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Proper Deburring Technique |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gbrac80@aol.com
MSC (_www.mscdirect.com_ (http://www.mscdirect.com) ) sells a large variety
of deburring tools for internal and external radii, for less than ten
dollars. These comprise a handle with a swiveling deburring blade that removes
the
burr with a simple rotary motion of the wrist.
Rgfd,
Mike.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Loctite for Canopy Sealer |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
3M weather-strip adhesive worked very well on mine. Acrylic is not too
difficult to glue to rubber, any good quality weather-strip adhesive should
do the job.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
on 1/17/06 6:10 AM, Jonathan Starke at jonathan@entry.co.za wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jonathan Starke" <jonathan@entry.co.za>
>
> Hi All wise listers,
>
> I am in South Africa, and I cannot source the Loctite Product P/N 23782 , as
> recommended by ZAC to glue the Rubber Seal on The canopy. I have tried to
> order the Adhesive from ZAC, but they do not supply it.
>
> My Question is: Does anyone know of an alternative glue that can be used for
> Acrylic to Rubber bonding.
> Thnx
> Jonathan Starke
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Proper Deburring Technique |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
I know zenith likes the file method, but over the years I've found that the
rotary tool that looks like a countersink tool on an offset screw driver
handle is the best. In my opinion you don't need to remove the raised area
around the hole, because this area will be reformed in the riveting process.
My way of doing is run your finger over it and if it feels smooth it's ok.
This opinion comes from buck riveting and should mostly apply to Pop
riveting. bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 9:17 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Proper Deburring Technique
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen"
<davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
>
> I have a procedural question regarding deburring. How much is enough in
> terms of material removed? If I use the file technique with a light touch
> to avoid scratches, or if I use the drill bit technique with minimal turns
> to avoid countersinking, it will take off the noticeable burrs. However,
if
> I run my fingernail towards the hole, there is still a slight "ridge"
right
> at the edge of the hole. Do I need to get all of this material off, so
that
> there is absolutely no "raised" area at all? If I do that with the file,
it
> tends to scratch the surface. If I try to remove it with additional turns
> of the drill bit, it looks like it may be starting to countersink the
hole,
> which I know you're not supposed to do.
>
> Any advice for me?
>
> Thanks,
> Dave Van Lanen
> Madison, WI
> 601 XL
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Proper Deburring Technique |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
Be a little careful, most scratches, and especially those that you can feel
don't "disappear under the paint". If you remove the ridge you will most
likely increase the size of the hole and fit up of any rivet is important to
it's strength. bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Proper Deburring Technique
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
<p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> I think it is important to take off all the raised area around the
> hole so the pieces of sheet metal mate completely. As I understand
> it, this is not so important where the rivets mate to the holes, but
> I try to get that area flat too.
>
> I don't think light scratches are a problem, so I don't worry about
> them. I just use a smooth file and let the scratches come along with
> the burrs. I intend to paint my plane anyway, so the scratches will
> disappear under the paint.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Paul
> XL wings
>
>
> At 07:17 PM 1/16/2006, you wrote:
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen"
> ><davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
> >
> >I have a procedural question regarding deburring. How much is enough in
> >terms of material removed? If I use the file technique with a light
touch
> >to avoid scratches, or if I use the drill bit technique with minimal
turns
> >to avoid countersinking, it will take off the noticeable burrs. However,
if
> >I run my fingernail towards the hole, there is still a slight "ridge"
right
> >at the edge of the hole. Do I need to get all of this material off, so
that
> >there is absolutely no "raised" area at all? If I do that with the file,
it
> >tends to scratch the surface. If I try to remove it with additional
turns
> >of the drill bit, it looks like it may be starting to countersink the
hole,
> >which I know you're not supposed to do.
> >
> >Any advice for me?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Dave Van Lanen
> >Madison, WI
> >601 XL
> >
> >
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | has anyone dimpled their XL? Dimpled Vs. Raised rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Condon, Philip M." <pcondon@mitre.org>
Mark, your numbers are off. Mooney aircraft tried to use the less labor
intensive method of using raised rivets heads on some Mooney's produced
by Butler/Avstar in the early to mid 60's. On the wing from Leading
edge to spar they used raised head rivets in addition to other frontal
area(s). Speed loss was dramatic at over 10 knots indicated. Later
Mooney's went back to the countersunk rivets in the critical air flow
areas. Mooneys cruse at 160 knots. The Zeniths certainly less, but I
would expect a larger difference then what you stated based on the
Mooney story. It's quite easy to back (face) a countersunk rivet by
shooting the tail and not the face of a rivet. Having built two RV's I
can say that. Is it necessary on a Zenith..that depends. Certainly not
(IMHO) for my 701. Other builders of faster Zeniths may want think this
out with the facts. (BTW, extra fuel capability is a "speed mod" that
many pilots don't think of.)
Time: 04:23:20 PM PST US
From: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: has anyone dimpled their XL?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
The effect of flat riveting over domed heads is 1/4 mph gain on speeds
below 200mph. IS the time worth it on an XL ? I doubt it, but if you
want to do it for looks then knock yourself out.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Proper Deburring Technique |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Dave,
Get yourself a deburring tool with a swiveling tip. Insert it in the
hole and pull it around the hole deburing
one side. Remove only enough to get rid of the burr. Files and drills
are seldom a complete solution to removing
edge ridges and burrs. The deburing tool will do it all with
considerably less effort and potential damage.
You only need to remove enough to be able to draw your finger across an
edge without sensing a sharp one.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS
do not archive
Dave VanLanen wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
>
>I have a procedural question regarding deburring. How much is enough in
>terms of material removed? If I use the file technique with a light touch
>to avoid scratches, or if I use the drill bit technique with minimal turns
>to avoid countersinking, it will take off the noticeable burrs. However, if
>I run my fingernail towards the hole, there is still a slight "ridge" right
>at the edge of the hole. Do I need to get all of this material off, so that
>there is absolutely no "raised" area at all? If I do that with the file, it
>tends to scratch the surface. If I try to remove it with additional turns
>of the drill bit, it looks like it may be starting to countersink the hole,
>which I know you're not supposed to do.
>
>Any advice for me?
>
>Thanks,
>Dave Van Lanen
>Madison, WI
>601 XL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Definitive hole deburring |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" <stol10@comcast.net>
First we need to get rid of the mindset that hole deburring is an unimportant distraction.
It is an operation in itself. Think about
how many holes you will debur in your building process. Using the wrong tool will
add countless hours to the process over the life of the project.Please buy
the right tool and avoid being cheap. I've seen this question so many times over
the years and someone always says to use a drillbit. Sorry guys this only works
sometimes, usually with small diameter holes. No machinist would ever do
this.The rotating blade is very good at this job.The most common brand name at
MSCDIRECT.COM is the VARGUS. There are other brands, plus,I think SEARS sells
something like it. One MSC debur set is from VARGUS (msc ORDER # 00424523). One
handle and about a dozen blades for $3.92. One blade will almost last forever
in aluminum. Add in a few steel parts and this set will build a couple of aircraft.
This tool is great for holes about 3/8 dia. or larger. However, if the
burr is thick and raised as a result of a dull drill, the resulting debur will
be ugly.(same for using a drillbit). A smooth
file should be used first to get rid of the raised part. Then the deburring tool
can take the sharp corner off the hole nicely. I'm Building a CH701 so my holes
are mainly 1/8" and 5/32". For these sizes the drill bit approach can work
fairly well but only if the original hole was made with a sharp drill which will
produce a very small burr. However you can do a better and I think, quicker
job with a small countersink tool in a pin vise/chuck holder(you still need
the file if the burr is heavy). It looks exactly like the rotating blade tool
holder but instead of "snap in/snap out" as with the rotating blade, it will hold
anything round just like a drill chuck does. MSC sells Part # 06491906 (5/16
dia. capacity) for $21.72.(I spent a while looking up these part numbers).
Now all you need is a small countersink to use in the pin vise. There are millions
of them out there. Try MSC PART # 60316650. It is 90 degrees, 5/16" dia.
with 1/4" shank (MSC Part # 60316655 $12.69). Now here's the important part.
This tool and all coutersinks have 3 or more flutes. This gives stability and
is the reason why a 2 flute drillbit cannot debur well. I have all these tools
and use them constantly.If you don't buy them now you probably will later. The
parts I list here total about $37 + shipping. You can find them cheaper and
possibly locally at SEARS. Don't baulk at the cost. I have a rivet squeezer that
I paid a bundle for and only needed it for less than a hundred rivets. The
deburring tools I use ALL the time. I hope this helps put this problem to rest.
It's a recuring question from new builders. Regards to the group....Geoff Heap.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4668#4668
Message 10
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| Subject: | has anyone dimpled their XL? Dimpled Vs. Raised rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: James Ferris <mijniljj@yahoo.com>
This is an unreasonable comparison. The Mooney has a
laminar flow airfoil designed to have laminar flow to
about 40 percent chord (as far back as the spar) where
as the thick blunt airfoil on the Zenith is a
turbulent flow airfoil, it is amazing that you would
get any increase in speed from flush rivits since the
airfoil as turbulent flow from near the leading edge.
Jim
--- "Condon, Philip M." <pcondon@mitre.org> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Condon, Philip
> M." <pcondon@mitre.org>
>
>
> Mark, your numbers are off. Mooney aircraft tried to
> use the less labor
> intensive method of using raised rivets heads on
> some Mooney's produced
> by Butler/Avstar in the early to mid 60's. On the
> wing from Leading
> edge to spar they used raised head rivets in
> addition to other frontal
> area(s). Speed loss was dramatic at over 10 knots
> indicated. Later
> Mooney's went back to the countersunk rivets in the
> critical air flow
> areas. Mooneys cruse at 160 knots. The Zeniths
> certainly less, but I
> would expect a larger difference then what you
> stated based on the
> Mooney story. It's quite easy to back (face) a
> countersunk rivet by
> shooting the tail and not the face of a rivet.
> Having built two RV's I
> can say that. Is it necessary on a Zenith..that
> depends. Certainly not
> (IMHO) for my 701. Other builders of faster Zeniths
> may want think this
> out with the facts. (BTW, extra fuel capability is a
> "speed mod" that
> many pilots don't think of.)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Time: 04:23:20 PM PST US
> From: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: has anyone dimpled their
> XL?
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket"
> <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
>
> The effect of flat riveting over domed heads is 1/4
> mph gain on speeds
> below 200mph. IS the time worth it on an XL ? I
> doubt it, but if you
> want to do it for looks then knock yourself out.
>
> Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Loctite for Canopy Sealer |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Jonathan,
I used PolyZap which is a product like Crazy Glue but works extremely
well for your purpose.
Had to order it from a place in Florida, but one 2-ounce bottle will do.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Jonathan Starke wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jonathan Starke" <jonathan@entry.co.za>
>
>Hi All wise listers,
>
>I am in South Africa, and I cannot source the Loctite Product P/N 23782 , as
>recommended by ZAC to glue the Rubber Seal on The canopy. I have tried to
>order the Adhesive from ZAC, but they do not supply it.
>
>My Question is: Does anyone know of an alternative glue that can be used for
>Acrylic to Rubber bonding.
>Thnx
>Jonathan Starke
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Rudder workshop this week |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" <John.Hines@craftontull.com>
Is anyone else out there going to the rudder workshop this week? I am
so excited I can't get any work done. I did start a web site (while I
was supposed to be working). There is nothing there yet except a few
pictures you have all seen before. I will post pictures from the
workshop when I get back. http://www.johnsplane.com/
I hope I see some of you there.
John Hines
John Hines
IT Manager
Crafton Tull & Associates
901 N. 47th Street
Suite 200
Rogers, AR 72756
Tel:479-878-2449
Fax:479-631-6224
Mobile:479-366-4783
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely
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Message 13
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| Subject: | Gas Tank Cleaning |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
I cut the hole for the fuel level indicator in my gas tank, and ended up having
to file a little to get it to fit. Now I have to clean out the filings from
inside the tank. Anybody have some good ideas? I tried a small vacume cleaner,
but couldn't get them all.
Don
601 XL, tail done, working on wings
---------------------------------
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | 701 Forced Landing |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Moore <moorecomp@yahoo.com>
Hello,
The Safetydata website shows that a 701 made a forced
landing on Jan. 8th, in Youngstown Ohio after a loss
of oil pressure. Landed in a field. No damage or
injuries. Looks as if it has a Soob for power. Anybody
have more info as to the reason for the loss of oil
pressure, some are flying these engines or are
considering them. "Inquiring minds want to know!"
Craig Moore
A&P 701 builder wannabe
Northern MI
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Gas Tank Cleaning |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Don,
Have you tried turning the tank upside down and shaking?
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
> I cut the hole for the fuel level indicator in my gas tank, and
> ended up having to file a little to get it to fit. Now I have to
> clean out the filings from inside the tank. Anybody have some
> good ideas? I tried a small vacume cleaner, but couldn't get them all.
>
> Don
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: has anyone dimpled their XL? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
Doesn't some of the strength come from the domed shape of the rivet?
--------
W.R. Gig Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4697#4697
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder workshop this week |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
Great, a fellow Arkansasan is building. Good move going to the workshop I can't
stress enough to new builders what a good idea it is to go to the workshop. Are
you building the 701 or 601?
John.Hines(at)craftontull wrote:
> Is anyone else out there going to the rudder workshop this week? I am
> so excited I can't get any work done. I did start a web site (while I
> was supposed to be working). There is nothing there yet except a few
> pictures you have all seen before. I will post pictures from the
> workshop when I get back. http://www.johnsplane.com/
>
> I hope I see some of you there.
>
>
--------
W.R. Gig Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4700#4700
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: has anyone dimpled their XL? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@sprint.ca>
As a test to speed production of Spitfires in WW2 they stuck split peas over
every rivet on the plane. Lost about 4 mph at 400 mph. That was too much
to give an Me 109.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder workshop this week |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" <John.Hines@craftontull.com>
I forgot to mention I'm building a 601XL.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gig Giacona
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 10:21 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rudder workshop this week
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
Great, a fellow Arkansasan is building. Good move going to the workshop
I can't stress enough to new builders what a good idea it is to go to
the workshop. Are you building the 701 or 601?
John.Hines(at)craftontull wrote:
> Is anyone else out there going to the rudder workshop this week? I am
> so excited I can't get any work done. I did start a web site (while I
> was supposed to be working). There is nothing there yet except a few
> pictures you have all seen before. I will post pictures from the
> workshop when I get back. http://www.johnsplane.com/
>
> I hope I see some of you there.
>
>
--------
W.R. Gig Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4700#4700
John Hines
IT Manager
Crafton Tull & Associates
901 N. 47th Street
Suite 200
Rogers, AR 72756
Tel:479-878-2449
Fax:479-631-6224
Mobile:479-366-4783
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely
for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.. If you
have received this email in error please notify the system manager.. This message
contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual
named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute
or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you
have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system.
If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying,
distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information
is strictly prohibited.
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Proper Deburring Technique |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ken smith <lrepilot@yahoo.com>
The Vargus deburring tool described by several people is great when the hole size
is very large (1/2 inch or better) but is not terribly good for 1/8 rivet holes.
What I have done for these is to get a sponge rubber sanding block from
Home Depot or Lowes, and use it on the concrete floor to break it in (almost wear
it out). It then works great for the long rows of rivets. It also is very
effective for smoothing the sheared edges of the parts. It leaves a polished finish
on the aluminum and the holes are as clean as they can be.
Ken
Empennage 90%
Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland
Dave,
Get yourself a deburring tool with a swiveling tip. Insert it in the
hole and pull it around the hole deburing
one side. Remove only enough to get rid of the burr. Files and drills
are seldom a complete solution to removing
edge ridges and burrs. The deburing tool will do it all with
considerably less effort and potential damage.
You only need to remove enough to be able to draw your finger across an
edge without sensing a sharp one.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS
do not archive
Dave VanLanen wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen"
>
>I have a procedural question regarding deburring. How much is enough in
>terms of material removed? If I use the file technique with a light touch
>to avoid scratches, or if I use the drill bit technique with minimal turns
>to avoid countersinking, it will take off the noticeable burrs. However, if
>I run my fingernail towards the hole, there is still a slight "ridge" right
>at the edge of the hole. Do I need to get all of this material off, so that
>there is absolutely no "raised" area at all? If I do that with the file, it
>tends to scratch the surface. If I try to remove it with additional turns
>of the drill bit, it looks like it may be starting to countersink the hole,
>which I know you're not supposed to do.
>
>Any advice for me?
>
>Thanks,
>Dave Van Lanen
>Madison, WI
>601 XL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
---------------------------------
Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: has anyone dimpled their XL? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
So that's why Spitfires are green, Boy the things ya learn from the list.
8*) KABONG
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@sprint.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: RE: Zenith-List: has anyone dimpled their XL?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@sprint.ca>
>
> As a test to speed production of Spitfires in WW2 they stuck split peas
> over
> every rivet on the plane. Lost about 4 mph at 400 mph. That was too much
> to give an Me 109.
> Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rudder workshop this week |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "MUL-T-LOCK TEL 212 22 220 748 - GSM 212 61
338 838" <mul-t-lock@menara.ma>
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hines" <John.Hines@craftontull.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 3:04 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder workshop this week
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines"
> <John.Hines@craftontull.com>
>
> Is anyone else out there going to the rudder workshop this week? I am
> so excited I can't get any work done. I did start a web site (while I
> was supposed to be working). There is nothing there yet except a few
> pictures you have all seen before. I will post pictures from the
> workshop when I get back. http://www.johnsplane.com/
>
> I hope I see some of you there.
>
> John Hines
>
>
> John Hines
> IT Manager
>
>
> Crafton Tull & Associates
> 901 N. 47th Street
> Suite 200
> Rogers, AR 72756
>
>
> Tel:479-878-2449
> Fax:479-631-6224
> Mobile:479-366-4783
>
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
> addressed.. If you have received this email in error please notify the
> system manager.. This message contains confidential information and is
> intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee
> you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify
> the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by
> mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the
> intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing
> or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is
> strictly prohibited.
>
>
> --
> 16/01/2006
>
>
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rudder workshop this week |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "MUL-T-LOCK TEL 212 22 220 748 - GSM 212 61
338 838" <mul-t-lock@menara.ma>
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hines" <John.Hines@craftontull.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 3:04 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder workshop this week
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines"
> <John.Hines@craftontull.com>
>
> Is anyone else out there going to the rudder workshop this week? I am
> so excited I can't get any work done. I did start a web site (while I
> was supposed to be working). There is nothing there yet except a few
> pictures you have all seen before. I will post pictures from the
> workshop when I get back. http://www.johnsplane.com/
>
> I hope I see some of you there.
>
> John Hines
>
>
> John Hines
> IT Manager
>
>
> Crafton Tull & Associates
> 901 N. 47th Street
> Suite 200
> Rogers, AR 72756
>
>
> Tel:479-878-2449
> Fax:479-631-6224
> Mobile:479-366-4783
>
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
> addressed.. If you have received this email in error please notify the
> system manager.. This message contains confidential information and is
> intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee
> you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify
> the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by
> mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the
> intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing
> or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is
> strictly prohibited.
>
>
> --
> 16/01/2006
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder workshop this week |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "MUL-T-LOCK TEL 212 22 220 748 - GSM 212 61
338 838" <mul-t-lock@menara.ma>
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hines" <John.Hines@craftontull.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 3:04 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder workshop this week
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines"
> <John.Hines@craftontull.com>
>
> Is anyone else out there going to the rudder workshop this week? I am
> so excited I can't get any work done. I did start a web site (while I
> was supposed to be working). There is nothing there yet except a few
> pictures you have all seen before. I will post pictures from the
> workshop when I get back. http://www.johnsplane.com/
>
> I hope I see some of you there.
>
> John Hines
>
>
> John Hines
> IT Manager
>
>
> Crafton Tull & Associates
> 901 N. 47th Street
> Suite 200
> Rogers, AR 72756
>
>
> Tel:479-878-2449
> Fax:479-631-6224
> Mobile:479-366-4783
>
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
> addressed.. If you have received this email in error please notify the
> system manager.. This message contains confidential information and is
> intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee
> you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify
> the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by
> mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the
> intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing
> or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is
> strictly prohibited.
>
>
> --
> 16/01/2006
>
>
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rudder workshop this week |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "MUL-T-LOCK TEL 212 22 220 748 - GSM 212 61
338 838" <mul-t-lock@menara.ma>
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hines" <John.Hines@craftontull.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 3:04 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder workshop this week
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines"
> <John.Hines@craftontull.com>
>
> Is anyone else out there going to the rudder workshop this week? I am
> so excited I can't get any work done. I did start a web site (while I
> was supposed to be working). There is nothing there yet except a few
> pictures you have all seen before. I will post pictures from the
> workshop when I get back. http://www.johnsplane.com/
>
> I hope I see some of you there.
>
> John Hines
>
>
> John Hines
> IT Manager
>
>
> Crafton Tull & Associates
> 901 N. 47th Street
> Suite 200
> Rogers, AR 72756
>
>
> Tel:479-878-2449
> Fax:479-631-6224
> Mobile:479-366-4783
>
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
> addressed.. If you have received this email in error please notify the
> system manager.. This message contains confidential information and is
> intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee
> you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify
> the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by
> mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the
> intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing
> or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is
> strictly prohibited.
>
>
> --
> 16/01/2006
>
>
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rudder workshop this week |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "MUL-T-LOCK TEL 212 22 220 748 - GSM 212 61
338 838" <mul-t-lock@menara.ma>
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hines" <John.Hines@craftontull.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 3:04 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder workshop this week
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines"
> <John.Hines@craftontull.com>
>
> Is anyone else out there going to the rudder workshop this week? I am
> so excited I can't get any work done. I did start a web site (while I
> was supposed to be working). There is nothing there yet except a few
> pictures you have all seen before. I will post pictures from the
> workshop when I get back. http://www.johnsplane.com/
>
> I hope I see some of you there.
>
> John Hines
>
>
> John Hines
> IT Manager
>
>
> Crafton Tull & Associates
> 901 N. 47th Street
> Suite 200
> Rogers, AR 72756
>
>
> Tel:479-878-2449
> Fax:479-631-6224
> Mobile:479-366-4783
>
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
> addressed.. If you have received this email in error please notify the
> system manager.. This message contains confidential information and is
> intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee
> you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify
> the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by
> mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the
> intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing
> or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is
> strictly prohibited.
>
>
> --
> 16/01/2006
>
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rudder workshop this week |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "MUL-T-LOCK TEL 212 22 220 748 - GSM 212 61
338 838" <mul-t-lock@menara.ma>
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hines" <John.Hines@craftontull.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 3:04 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder workshop this week
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines"
> <John.Hines@craftontull.com>
>
> Is anyone else out there going to the rudder workshop this week? I am
> so excited I can't get any work done. I did start a web site (while I
> was supposed to be working). There is nothing there yet except a few
> pictures you have all seen before. I will post pictures from the
> workshop when I get back. http://www.johnsplane.com/
>
> I hope I see some of you there.
>
> John Hines
>
>
> John Hines
> IT Manager
>
>
> Crafton Tull & Associates
> 901 N. 47th Street
> Suite 200
> Rogers, AR 72756
>
>
> Tel:479-878-2449
> Fax:479-631-6224
> Mobile:479-366-4783
>
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
> addressed.. If you have received this email in error please notify the
> system manager.. This message contains confidential information and is
> intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee
> you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify
> the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by
> mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the
> intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing
> or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is
> strictly prohibited.
>
>
> --
> 16/01/2006
>
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rudder workshop this week |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "MUL-T-LOCK TEL 212 22 220 748 - GSM 212 61
338 838" <mul-t-lock@menara.ma>
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hines" <John.Hines@craftontull.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 3:04 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder workshop this week
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines"
> <John.Hines@craftontull.com>
>
> Is anyone else out there going to the rudder workshop this week? I am
> so excited I can't get any work done. I did start a web site (while I
> was supposed to be working). There is nothing there yet except a few
> pictures you have all seen before. I will post pictures from the
> workshop when I get back. http://www.johnsplane.com/
>
> I hope I see some of you there.
>
> John Hines
>
>
> John Hines
> IT Manager
>
>
> Crafton Tull & Associates
> 901 N. 47th Street
> Suite 200
> Rogers, AR 72756
>
>
> Tel:479-878-2449
> Fax:479-631-6224
> Mobile:479-366-4783
>
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
> addressed.. If you have received this email in error please notify the
> system manager.. This message contains confidential information and is
> intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee
> you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify
> the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by
> mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the
> intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing
> or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is
> strictly prohibited.
>
>
> --
> 16/01/2006
>
>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Fellow builders:
As you can see from the following photo, I haven't yet
attached my forward, top skin permanently.
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/1_17_06_Panel.jpg
The first reason is that I have a rat's nest of wires
to be tidied up. The second reason is that I want to
be able to remove it later and haven't decided how
best to do this.
I have been using rivnuts all over the place for
non-structural applications (like wire-clamps).
For those of you who are reading and have not
personally installed a rivnut and/or an anchor nut
before, here's the best photo I could find:
http://www.torquecontrol.ltd.uk/photo2.jpg
or
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/rivets/rivnuts.jpg
As opposed to an anchor nut:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/bolts/minianchornut.jpg
So - after all that - my question is - does anybody
have a good reason why I should not install rivnuts to
hold down the top forward skin with screws? (Besides
the obvious reason that one or two may spin in the
future - I can get back there to hold them if this
happens).
Thanks in advance for any input,
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Re: Gas Tank Cleaning |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
Sponge material safety wired to a stick. That's the way I completely drain
and clean out stuff out of the bottom of the tank. bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Mountain" <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 9:01 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Gas Tank Cleaning
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
>
> I cut the hole for the fuel level indicator in my gas tank, and ended up
having to file a little to get it to fit. Now I have to clean out the
filings from inside the tank. Anybody have some good ideas? I tried a
small vacume cleaner, but couldn't get them all.
>
> Don
> 601 XL, tail done, working on wings
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays,
whatever.
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Another possibility is Tinnerman U nuts. At least one builder use them to
attach his top, forward skin.
Look half way down this page:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/tinnerman.php
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N5SL
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 12:00 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Fellow builders:
As you can see from the following photo, I haven't yet attached my forward,
top skin permanently.
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/1_17_06_Panel.jpg
The first reason is that I have a rat's nest of wires to be tidied up. The
second reason is that I want to be able to remove it later and haven't
decided how best to do this.
I have been using rivnuts all over the place for non-structural applications
(like wire-clamps).
For those of you who are reading and have not personally installed a rivnut
and/or an anchor nut before, here's the best photo I could find:
http://www.torquecontrol.ltd.uk/photo2.jpg
or
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/rivets/rivnuts.jpg
As opposed to an anchor nut:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/bolts/minianchornut.jpg
So - after all that - my question is - does anybody have a good reason why I
should not install rivnuts to hold down the top forward skin with screws?
(Besides the obvious reason that one or two may spin in the future - I can
get back there to hold them if this happens).
Thanks in advance for any input,
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
The anchor nuts have a much larger bearing area and are much stronger, plus the
rivets provide much larger torque capacity when the screw gets hard to turn
in old age. And they are pretty easy to put in.
Don
601 XL, tail done, working on wings
---------------------------------
Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.
Message 33
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| Subject: | Ref to using XL's fw for a HDS |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gpjann@aol.com
The 601 XL's firewall AND NG BRACKETs with additional reinforcements should
also be used. It will withstand a hard landing much better the original
HDS's.
GPJ
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Gas Tank Cleaning |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Don,
I had to replace a shut-off valve that was ruined by aluminum swarf in
the header tank. It had become leaky and meant taking the cap off after
draining
the tank dry. After removing the finger strainer which was nearly
clogged at one end with silver stuff, I used a brush on a stick and a
flashlight
to get it all pushed to the drain where another bottle brush cleared it
from the fitting in the bottom of the tank. Really unpleasant but
necessary.
The swarf was accumulated from fabrication of my header, filings etc and
I'd thought it was cleaned out, but seams have a way of hiding stuff.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Don Mountain wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
>
> I cut the hole for the fuel level indicator in my gas tank, and ended up having
to file a little to get it to fit. Now I have to clean out the filings from
inside the tank. Anybody have some good ideas? I tried a small vacume
cleaner, but couldn't get them all.
>
> Don
> 601 XL, tail done, working on wings
>
>
>
>
>
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: 701 Forced Landing |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Craig,
The easiest way to loose oil in a Subaru is to put the pressure sensor
on an extended fitting
purchased from a hardware store in lieu of the automotive fitting.
Automotive fittings are
twice the wall thickness at the threaded ends as those typically found
in hardware stores. I had one
crack from vibration and it sprayed oil in the cowl. Didn't loose
enough to put me
down, but smelled a bit like a startup of the furnace in the fall. I
replaced it with an automotive
fitting that was much shorter and thicker. The other way to loose oil
is to ignore the front seal
at the lower redrive pully. You won't loose it so quickly you have to
do an emergency landing
but it will mess up the cowl just as effectively. I replaced one last
year with a better
sealant.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS Stratus Subaru at www.macsmachine.com
Craig Moore wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Moore <moorecomp@yahoo.com>
>
>Hello,
>
>The Safetydata website shows that a 701 made a forced
>landing on Jan. 8th, in Youngstown Ohio after a loss
>of oil pressure. Landed in a field. No damage or
>injuries. Looks as if it has a Soob for power. Anybody
>have more info as to the reason for the loss of oil
>pressure, some are flying these engines or are
>considering them. "Inquiring minds want to know!"
>
>Craig Moore
>A&P 701 builder wannabe
>Northern MI
>
>
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: has anyone dimpled their XL? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave G." <d.goddard@ns.sympatico.ca>
----- Original Message ----- > As a test to speed production of Spitfires in
WW2 they stuck split peas over
> every rivet on the plane. Lost about 4 mph at 400 mph. That was too much
> to give an Me 109.
I guess the other side of this question is, how much would it hurt to use
round head rivets on an RV. How much time could you save?
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind@gmx.net>
Hi Scott,
I used anchor nuts for the forward skin. Replaced all rivets with #8 (for
the side longerons) and #6 (for the firewall and IP) anchor nuts. Was a lot
of work to install all those anchor nuts, but haven't regretted it at all. I
have taken the forward skin off multiple times. And best off all: the plane
flys fine and has not fallen out of the sky.
I never used rivnuts, but heard several time, that too much torque will turn
them loose in their holes.
Best regards
Thilo Kind
CH 601 HDS
----- Original Message -----
From: "N5SL" <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 8:00 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
>
> Fellow builders:
>
> As you can see from the following photo, I haven't yet
> attached my forward, top skin permanently.
>
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/1_17_06_Panel.jpg
>
> The first reason is that I have a rat's nest of wires
> to be tidied up. The second reason is that I want to
> be able to remove it later and haven't decided how
> best to do this.
>
> I have been using rivnuts all over the place for
> non-structural applications (like wire-clamps).
>
> For those of you who are reading and have not
> personally installed a rivnut and/or an anchor nut
> before, here's the best photo I could find:
>
> http://www.torquecontrol.ltd.uk/photo2.jpg
> or
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/rivets/rivnuts.jpg
>
> As opposed to an anchor nut:
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/bolts/minianchornut.jpg
>
> So - after all that - my question is - does anybody
> have a good reason why I should not install rivnuts to
> hold down the top forward skin with screws? (Besides
> the obvious reason that one or two may spin in the
> future - I can get back there to hold them if this
> happens).
>
> Thanks in advance for any input,
>
> Scott Laughlin
> www.cooknwithgas.com
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Scott,
The Tinnerman J-nuts are far more easy to use and they are only about
$10 for a package of 50.
I sized them for 6-32 screws and purchased them from McMaster Carr.
Don't use Rivnuts or plate nuts
as they wear out and are hard to replace. I've had my forward top skin
off a dozen times and have replaced
half a dozen screws (stripped thread) and perhaps 10 J-nuts in all that
time. They never let go and you don't
find any screws loose or missing after a flight. See links
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/uclips.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/xlfwdtopskin.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/flash&rubber.gif
http://www.mcmaster.com/ (see j nuts shapes 1 and 2)
See part numbers 94809A102
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
>As opposed to an anchor nut:
>
>http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/bolts/minianchornut.jpg
>
>So - after all that - my question is - does anybody have a good reason why I
>should not install rivnuts to hold down the top forward skin with screws?
>(Besides the obvious reason that one or two may spin in the future - I can
>get back there to hold them if this happens).
>
>Thanks in advance for any input,
>
>Scott Laughlin
>www.cooknwithgas.com
>
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | 701 Forced Landing |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
And an even more spectacular way is....
If you look at the pick up tube in the bottom of the sump, you will find
it can be like 1n inch and quarter above the bottom of the sump. If you
have a STOL airplane and slightly low oil...The oil surges back,
uncovers your pick up tube and you get instant destroyed crank bearings
under full power.
RAM offers a dropped pickup tube, although you can make your own fairly
easily.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
McFarland
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Forced Landing
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland
--> <larrymc@qconline.com>
Craig,
The easiest way to loose oil in a Subaru is to put the pressure sensor
on an extended fitting purchased from a hardware store in lieu of the
automotive fitting.
Automotive fittings are
twice the wall thickness at the threaded ends as those typically found
in hardware stores. I had one crack from vibration and it sprayed oil
in the cowl. Didn't loose enough to put me down, but smelled a bit like
a startup of the furnace in the fall. I replaced it with an automotive
fitting that was much shorter and thicker. The other way to loose oil
is to ignore the front seal at the lower redrive pully. You won't loose
it so quickly you have to do an emergency landing but it will mess up
the cowl just as effectively. I replaced one last year with a better
sealant.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS Stratus Subaru at www.macsmachine.com
Craig Moore wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Moore <moorecomp@yahoo.com>
>
>Hello,
>
>The Safetydata website shows that a 701 made a forced landing on Jan.
>8th, in Youngstown Ohio after a loss of oil pressure. Landed in a
>field. No damage or injuries. Looks as if it has a Soob for power.
>Anybody have more info as to the reason for the loss of oil pressure,
>some are flying these engines or are considering them. "Inquiring minds
>want to know!"
>
>Craig Moore
>A&P 701 builder wannabe
>Northern MI
>
>
>
>
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | fuel sender leak |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gordon" <cscsail@gmavt.net>
I just checked my 701 fuel tanks (main & aux.) in the right wink for leaks prior
to closing it up. I found that both VDO fuel senders leaked around some of
the screw heads that go into the backing flange inside the tank. The paper washes
under the screw heads had split, probably from over tightening, although it
doesn't take much to break them. I also has a leak when I put an electrical
ring connector under a screw head for a ground, as shown in the assembly guide.
Has anyone else had this problem, and is there a better washer, copper, etc.
that might be more durable. It seems like these thin paper washers are all that
prevent the screws from leaking fuel?
Gordon
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: has anyone dimpled their XL? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: James Ferris <mijniljj@yahoo.com>
It doesn't have a laminar flow airfoil either so i
don't think it would make a dimes worth of difference,
may lower the landing speed because of the vortices.
jim
--- "Dave G." <d.goddard@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave G."
> <d.goddard@ns.sympatico.ca>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- > As a test to speed
> production of Spitfires in
> WW2 they stuck split peas over
> > every rivet on the plane. Lost about 4 mph at 400
> mph. That was too much
> > to give an Me 109.
>
> I guess the other side of this question is, how much
> would it hurt to use
> round head rivets on an RV. How much time could you
> save?
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 42
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|
| Subject: | Re: has anyone dimpled their XL? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Saw a TV program the other night on Spitfires. Top speed was not the pilots
main concern. Turning and stall speed in a vertical climb was the name of
the game. They had two "Aces" on. An ME 109 & Spitfire were involved, 109
behind & both turning. 109 was gaining the advantage so the Spitfire pilot
pulled straight up in a vertical climb, the 109 followed & rolled to watch
the Spitfire. They were at about the same level looking at each other. The
first one to stall & fall off would have the other on its tail. It would
seem that the smoother the wing, the less air separation & lower stall.
Flush vs round head ? ?. The 109 stalled first, Spitfire did a modified
"hammerhead" & shot down the 109. KABONG Do No Archive
Subject: Re: RE: Zenith-List: has anyone dimpled their XL?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: James Ferris <mijniljj@yahoo.com>
>
> It doesn't have a laminar flow airfoil either so i
> don't think it would make a dimes worth of difference,
> may lower the landing speed because of the vortices.
> jim
>
> --- "Dave G." <d.goddard@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave G."
>> <d.goddard@ns.sympatico.ca>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- > As a test to speed
>> production of Spitfires in
>> WW2 they stuck split peas over
>> > every rivet on the plane. Lost about 4 mph at 400
>> mph. That was too much
>> > to give an Me 109.
>>
>> I guess the other side of this question is, how much
>> would it hurt to use
>> round head rivets on an RV. How much time could you
>> save?
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | Re: Definitive hole deburring |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" <planejim@bellsouth.net>
Hey Listers,
I agree completely with Geoff. I have done this stuff for nearly 50 years
and I am Chairman of the Basic Sheet Metal Workshop at the SunNFun Fly-In.
So for what its worth let me add a few thoughts. Many of my fellow
volunteers who teach in the SNF workshop also have many years of experience.
We nearly all prefer the offset handle with the three flut countersink bit
installed. They just aren't that expensive when you consider that you will
use the tool several thousand times during the construction of your metal
aircraft. Yes, occasionally you can't get that tool into where you need it.
Use the file or drill bit only when you must. If you were working with
2024-T3 and used a file you would be removing the Alclad which is there to
prevent corrosion. Corrosion under a rivet head is a bad place to have it.
6060-T6 isn't as critical. There is no Alclad because of the makeup of the
metal.
The main thing to remember when deburring is that the junction of the pieces
of metal and the rivet is the strongest when the hole is completely filled
with the rivet. Also, rivets primarily do their job in shear. If the
countersink is too deep, the sheetmetal acts as a shear on the rivet. If the
burrs keep the two pieces of metal apart as the rivet is set, the joint just
won't be as strong. The trick (which comes with practice) is to completely
remove the burr without countersinking the hole at all. One of the previous
Listers stated "I try to go maybe one thousandth into the hole" Not a bad
way to describe it. It's important to deburr properly but don't agonize over
it too much. I don't know of any General Aviation airplanes that have come
apart because of improper deburring!
Have fun building your airplane!
Jim Hoak 601HD 500.3 hrs
----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Heap" <stol10@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 9:49 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Definitive hole deburring
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" <stol10@comcast.net>
>
> First we need to get rid of the mindset that hole deburring is an
> unimportant distraction. It is an operation in itself. Think about
> how many holes you will debur in your building process. Using the wrong
> tool will add countless hours to the process over the life of the
> project.Please buy the right tool and avoid being cheap. I've seen this
> question so many times over the years and someone always says to use a
> drillbit. Sorry guys this only works sometimes, usually with small
> diameter holes. No machinist would ever do this.The rotating blade is very
> good at this job.The most common brand name at MSCDIRECT.COM is the
> VARGUS. There are other brands, plus,I think SEARS sells something like
> it. One MSC debur set is from VARGUS (msc ORDER # 00424523). One handle
> and about a dozen blades for $3.92. One blade will almost last forever in
> aluminum. Add in a few steel parts and this set will build a couple of
> aircraft. This tool is great for holes about 3/8 dia. or larger. However,
> if the burr is thick and raised as a result of a dull drill, the resulting
> debur will be ugly.(same for using a drillbit). A smooth
> file should be used first to get rid of the raised part. Then the
> deburring tool can take the sharp corner off the hole nicely. I'm Building
> a CH701 so my holes are mainly 1/8" and 5/32". For these sizes the drill
> bit approach can work fairly well but only if the original hole was made
> with a sharp drill which will produce a very small burr. However you can
> do a better and I think, quicker job with a small countersink tool in a
> pin vise/chuck holder(you still need the file if the burr is heavy). It
> looks exactly like the rotating blade tool holder but instead of "snap
> in/snap out" as with the rotating blade, it will hold anything round just
> like a drill chuck does. MSC sells Part # 06491906 (5/16 dia. capacity)
> for $21.72.(I spent a while looking up these part numbers). Now all you
> need is a small countersink to use in the pin vise. There are millions of
> them out there. Try MSC PART # 60316650. It is 90 degrees, 5/16" dia. with
> 1/4" shank (MSC Part # 60316655 $12.69). Now h!
> ere's the important part. This tool and all coutersinks have 3 or more
> flutes. This gives stability and is the reason why a 2 flute drillbit
> cannot debur well. I have all these tools and use them constantly.If you
> don't buy them now you probably will later. The parts I list here total
> about $37 + shipping. You can find them cheaper and possibly locally at
> SEARS. Don't baulk at the cost. I have a rivet squeezer that I paid a
> bundle for and only needed it for less than a hundred rivets. The
> deburring tools I use ALL the time. I hope this helps put this problem to
> rest. It's a recuring question from new builders. Regards to the
> group....Geoff Heap.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4668#4668
>
>
>
Message 44
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|
| Subject: | Re: 701 Forced Landing |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>
The best way I have found to install a oil sending unit with a Subaru or any
other engine for that matter is to use a 12" grease whip and locate your
sending unit on the firewall. Direct engine vibration is hard on the
sending units. Most of the time they just quit working, I've not seen one
crack open. But, I'm sure it could happen.
Larry, www.skyhawg.com
---- Original Message -----
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Forced Landing
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> Craig,
> The easiest way to loose oil in a Subaru is to put the pressure sensor
> on an extended fitting
> purchased from a hardware store in lieu of the automotive fitting.
> Automotive fittings are
> twice the wall thickness at the threaded ends as those typically found
> in hardware stores. I had one
> crack from vibration and it sprayed oil in the cowl. Didn't loose
> enough to put me
> down, but smelled a bit like a startup of the furnace in the fall. I
> replaced it with an automotive
> fitting that was much shorter and thicker. The other way to loose oil
> is to ignore the front seal
> at the lower redrive pully. You won't loose it so quickly you have to
> do an emergency landing
> but it will mess up the cowl just as effectively. I replaced one last
> year with a better
> sealant.
>
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS Stratus Subaru at www.macsmachine.com
>
> Craig Moore wrote:
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Moore <moorecomp@yahoo.com>
>>
>>Hello,
>>
>>The Safetydata website shows that a 701 made a forced
>>landing on Jan. 8th, in Youngstown Ohio after a loss
>>of oil pressure. Landed in a field. No damage or
>>injuries. Looks as if it has a Soob for power. Anybody
>>have more info as to the reason for the loss of oil
>>pressure, some are flying these engines or are
>>considering them. "Inquiring minds want to know!"
>>
>>Craig Moore
>>A&P 701 builder wannabe
>>Northern MI
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 45
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|
| Subject: | Gas Tank Cleaning |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Alberti" <daberti@sbcglobal.net>
Make a small ball of masking tap with the sticky side out and attach it to a
opened coat hanger. Just blot the ships on the sticky tape.
Dave 601-HD 912ULS
-
> I cut the hole for the fuel level indicator in my gas tank, and
> ended up having to file a little to get it to fit. Now I have to
> clean out the filings from inside the tank.
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Hello Scott,
Thats the only reason, they can turn loose in the skin. I made a test for the
rivnuts to prevent them to turn: A used an epoxy putty with aluminum powder
and applied carefully a little in the rivnut holding area and the skin...
Then pressed the rivnut. My idea is that it will have double support, the natural
squeeze of the rivnut and the glue of the epoxy... has to be very the exact
quantity so the epoxy will not get in the nut area. Hope I got understood...
Hope it holds as welded....
The tool was to expensive to trow it away :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower
N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL
Fellow builders:
As you can see from the following photo, I haven't yet
attached my forward, top skin permanently.
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/1_17_06_Panel.jpg
The first reason is that I have a rat's nest of wires
to be tidied up. The second reason is that I want to
be able to remove it later and haven't decided how
best to do this.
I have been using rivnuts all over the place for
non-structural applications (like wire-clamps).
For those of you who are reading and have not
personally installed a rivnut and/or an anchor nut
before, here's the best photo I could find:
http://www.torquecontrol.ltd.uk/photo2.jpg
or
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/rivets/rivnuts.jpg
As opposed to an anchor nut:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/bolts/minianchornut.jpg
So - after all that - my question is - does anybody
have a good reason why I should not install rivnuts to
hold down the top forward skin with screws? (Besides
the obvious reason that one or two may spin in the
future - I can get back there to hold them if this
happens).
Thanks in advance for any input,
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
DO NOT ARCHIVE
---------------------------------
Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: fuel sender leak |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
Gordon,
I had to replace the VDO sending unit in my 701 last week. I couldn't get the
new one to seal, had it in and out 4 times through an access hole in the
bottom of the wing( you did put an access hole in, right?) A mechanic on the field
told me to use "Fuel Lube" and don't over tighten the screws. I used it and
it worked the 1st time. It has the consistancy of a toilet bowl wax ring but
won't dissolve in gas. I asked where to purchase it and he told me Aircraft
Spruce but I couldn't find it there. Copper washers are available at auto parts
stores. My replacement fuel sender (not VDO) used them undrer the ground lug,
the other screws had little nylon washers.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX
In a message dated 1/17/2006 5:12:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
cscsail@gmavt.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gordon" <cscsail@gmavt.net>
I just checked my 701 fuel tanks (main & aux.) in the right wink for leaks
prior to closing it up. I found that both VDO fuel senders leaked around some
of the screw heads that go into the backing flange inside the tank. The paper
washes under the screw heads had split, probably from over tightening, although
it doesn't take much to break them. I also has a leak when I put an
electrical ring connector under a screw head for a ground, as shown in the assembly
guide. Has anyone else had this problem, and is there a better washer, copper,
etc. that might be more durable. It seems like these thin paper washers are all
that prevent the screws from leaking fuel?
Gordon
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