---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/23/06: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:15 AM - MCS Sales Rivet Puller (eBay) (Larry Portouw) 2. 03:02 AM - Re: MCS Sales Rivet Puller (eBay) (Elwood140@aol.com) 3. 05:59 AM - Rudder Workshop (John Hines) 4. 06:06 AM - I have a running engine!! (Bill Howerton) 5. 06:57 AM - Re: I have a running engine!! (Gig Giacona) 6. 08:20 AM - Re: I have a running engine!! (BillHowerton) 7. 08:29 AM - Re: Rear wing spar question. (Jack Russell) 8. 09:06 AM - RE : Re: Rear wing spar question - shimming (Carlos Sa) 9. 11:27 AM - Re: : Re: Rear wing spar question - shimming (japhillipsga@aol.com) 10. 11:36 AM - Re: : Re: Rear wing spar question - shimming (japhillipsga@aol.com) 11. 02:08 PM - Re: Imprortant New Corvair info from WW (Gig Giacona) 12. 02:56 PM - FAA Alerts had CH701 items this month. (Richard T. Perry) 13. 03:04 PM - Re: Rudder Workshop (kevinbonds) 14. 05:22 PM - Re: FAA Alerts had CH701 items this month. (Mike Sinclair) 15. 05:40 PM - Re: FAA Alerts had CH701 items this month. (Steve Hulland) 16. 07:14 PM - Re: FAA Alerts had CH701 items this month. (lgingell) 17. 07:29 PM - Re: FAA Alerts had CH701 items this month. (Mike Sinclair) 18. 07:29 PM - Re: FAA Alerts had CH701 items this month. (Mike Sinclair) 19. 07:29 PM - Re: Re: FAA Alerts had CH701 items this month. (Craig Payne) 20. 07:45 PM - Re: FAA Alerts had CH701 items this month. (Mike Sinclair) 21. 07:52 PM - Aluminum Sheet Sourcing (Nate Erb) 22. 08:15 PM - Re: FAA Alerts had CH701 items this month. (Steve Hulland) 23. 09:00 PM - Re: Aluminum Sheet Sourcing (Ron Lendon) 24. 09:11 PM - [Re: FAA Alerts had CH701 items this month.] (Mike Sinclair) 25. 09:12 PM - Re: FAA Alerts had CH701 items this month. (Rory Davis) 26. 09:26 PM - Re: [Re: FAA Alerts had CH701 items this month.] (Mike Sinclair) 27. 09:49 PM - Re: Aluminum Sheet Sourcing (Randy L. Thwing) 28. 09:52 PM - Re: Re: Aluminum Sheet Sourcing (Craig Payne) 29. 11:03 PM - Re: FAA Alerts had CH701 items this month. (Gary Gower) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:15:25 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: MCS Sales Rivet Puller (eBay) From: "Larry Portouw" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Portouw" Has anyone bought or used one of these rivet pullers? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=ADME:B:FSEL:US:1&Item=7583391017 They are offered by MCS Sales on eBay for $45.00. I'm assuming it's a Chinese knockoff. Good price. Photo attached for those on the forum. Larry Portouw 601XL kit H. Stab Atlanta, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=6068#6068 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/bwriveter_120.jpg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:02:26 AM PST US From: Elwood140@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: MCS Sales Rivet Puller (eBay) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Elwood140@aol.com In a message dated 1/23/2006 4:16:40 AM Central Standard Time, Larry@portouw.com writes: Has anyone bought or used one of these rivet pullers? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=ADME:B:FSEL:US:1& Item=7583391017 Larry, this appears to be the exact same rivet puller that Zenith sells. If that is true, the price is good and the puller works well. Mine has pulled lots of rivets. One thing you will probably notice is that they leak a little air with a resulting low hiss. This seems to be the nature of the beast and has no other effect besides nuisance noise. Regards, Larry Wood (N701LW in process) Do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:29 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder Workshop From: "John Hines" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" Guys, I went to the rudder workshop last week and it was great. The facilities were very nice and the people were fantastic. I really encourage anyone who is thinking about building to attend. I have some pictures of the workshop and the demo flight on my web site. Check it out and let me know what you think. http://www.johnsplane.com/ John John Hines IT Manager Crafton, Tull & Associates 901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 Rogers, AR 72756 Tel: 479-878-2449 Fax: 479-631-6224 Mob: 479-366-4783 This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:24 AM PST US From: "Bill Howerton" Subject: Zenith-List: I have a running engine!! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" As many of you know, I've been building a Corvair engine for my 601XL. Well, last year I was in Florida, and had the oppurtunity to meet William Wynne at his shop. After a long conversation, he offered to take all the parts that I had collected and prepped and assemble my engine for me at his shop. An offer I jumped on right away. So I shipped it all off, and then in late October he called me to let me know that the engine was running, and was ready to spend some time on his Dyno. Now after a long series of testing and adjustments by him and his crew, about two weeks ago, my engine was crated up, and shipped to my home in Colorado, and last week it arrived. I couldn't wait to open the crate and take a look. I couldn't have been more pleased with the way it came out. This weekend, I took many many pictures and posted them on my site. Take a look: http://bill.howerton.com/zodiac/engine_page.htm Bill ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:01 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: I have a running engine!! From: "Gig Giacona" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" That's great have you weighed it by any chance? Is the crank nitrited? Bill(at)Howerton.com wrote: > As many of you know, I've been building a Corvair engine for my 601XL. > Well, last year I was in Florida, and had the oppurtunity to meet William > Wynne at his shop. After a long conversation, he offered to take all the > parts that I had collected and prepped and assemble my engine for me at his > shop. An offer I jumped on right away. > > So I shipped it all off, and then in late October he called me to let me > know that the engine was running, and was ready to spend some time on his > Dyno. Now after a long series of testing and adjustments by him and his > crew, about two weeks ago, my engine was crated up, and shipped to my home > in Colorado, and last week it arrived. > > I couldn't wait to open the crate and take a look. I couldn't have been > more pleased with the way it came out. This weekend, I took many many > pictures and posted them on my site. Take a look: > http://bill.howerton.com/zodiac/engine_page.htm > > Bill -------- W.R. Gig Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=6112#6112 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:15 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: I have a running engine!! From: "BillHowerton" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "BillHowerton" No and yes I haven't quite figured out a good way to weigh it, however WW tells me that it weighed in at 218 pounds. As far as Nitriding the crank: Yes! I've read enough on the subject to conclude that installing a non-nitrided crank represents too great of a risk. In my opinion, the additonal cost was well worth the insurance it provided. For what was essentially an additional investment of $150 and a willingness to wait an additional 6 weeks or so while it went to the nitriding shop I just gained a huge piece of mind, and have dramatically reduced the liklihood that my crank will suffer from stress fractures. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=6144#6144 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:42 AM PST US From: Jack Russell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rear wing spar question. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell michael: I found a use for adding a few aluminum shims in several places durning the build. I believe I used a couple just where you are having the problem . Jack in Los Osos CA Michael Valentine wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michael Valentine Hello again everyone... I have just attached my rear spar to the back of the rear ribs and it is clear that it is not straight. Jack Russell -Clovis CA 601 XL Jabiru 3300 Progress update at: http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:06:00 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: RE : Re: Zenith-List: Rear wing spar question - shimming --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Shimms are ok up to 3 mm, more than that and you should "consult the designer" (from the old HD construction manual, page 12). Carlos CH601-HD. Left tank done, right tank in progress. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell michael: I found a use for adding a few aluminum shims in several places durning the build. I believe I used a couple just where you are having the problem . Jack in Los Osos CA Michael Valentine wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michael Valentine Hello again everyone... I have just attached my rear spar to the back of the rear ribs and it is clear that it is not straight. Jack Russell -Clovis CA 601 XL Jabiru 3300 Progress update at: http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:27:55 AM PST US From: japhillipsga@aol.com Subject: Re: : Re: Zenith-List: Rear wing spar question - shimming --> Zenith-List message posted by: japhillipsga@aol.com Michael, forgive me, maybe I missed some of your message. Are you saying that the rear spar metal is warped ? Or is it setting at an angle to the main spar ? If it is warped, is it metal bent in or out, up or down ? Is the warp standard the whole length of the spar ? I am having trouble picturing a warp. I have read that there is a difference in the plans for wings from when I built mine a couple years ago, but I recall cutting blocks of wood to specific differing heights to set wing ribs on that warped the rear of the wing from the main spar as a design consideration. Is that the warp your writing about ? Is your wing still in clecos or have you riveted yet ? Is this the second wing and if not, does it match the first wing ? Best regards, Bill of Georgia -----Original Message----- From: Carlos Sa Sent: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 12:05:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: RE : Re: Zenith-List: Rear wing spar question - shimming --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Shimms are ok up to 3 mm, more than that and you should "consult the designer" (from the old HD construction manual, page 12). Carlos CH601-HD. Left tank done, right tank in progress. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell michael: I found a use for adding a few aluminum shims in several places durning the build. I believe I used a couple just where you are having the problem . Jack in Los Osos CA Michael Valentine wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michael Valentine Hello again everyone... I have just attached my rear spar to the back of the rear ribs and it is clear that it is not straight. Jack Russell -Clovis CA 601 XL Jabiru 3300 Progress update at: http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:36:21 AM PST US From: japhillipsga@aol.com Subject: Re: : Re: Zenith-List: Rear wing spar question - shimming --> Zenith-List message posted by: japhillipsga@aol.com Michael, the only two reasons I can think of is if you used the wrong center rib (s) at the correct location or you set the rib at the wrong place on the backside of the main spar. Either one would cause an alignment problem with the rear spar. I am, of course, discounting that ZAC sent you any imprecise part (s), Bill -----Original Message----- From: japhillipsga@aol.com Sent: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 14:26:27 -0500 Subject: Re: : Re: Zenith-List: Rear wing spar question - shimming --> Zenith-List message posted by: japhillipsga@aol.com Michael, forgive me, maybe I missed some of your message. Are you saying that the rear spar metal is warped ? Or is it setting at an angle to the main spar ? If it is warped, is it metal bent in or out, up or down ? Is the warp standard the whole length of the spar ? I am having trouble picturing a warp. I have read that there is a difference in the plans for wings from when I built mine a couple years ago, but I recall cutting blocks of wood to specific differing heights to set wing ribs on that warped the rear of the wing from the main spar as a design consideration. Is that the warp your writing about ? Is your wing still in clecos or have you riveted yet ? Is this the second wing and if not, does it match the first wing ? Best regards, Bill of Georgia -----Original Message----- From: Carlos Sa Sent: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 12:05:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: RE : Re: Zenith-List: Rear wing spar question - shimming --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Shimms are ok up to 3 mm, more than that and you should "consult the designer" (from the old HD construction manual, page 12). Carlos CH601-HD. Left tank done, right tank in progress. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell michael: I found a use for adding a few aluminum shims in several places durning the build. I believe I used a couple just where you are having the problem . Jack in Los Osos CA Michael Valentine wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michael Valentine Hello again everyone... I have just attached my rear spar to the back of the rear ribs and it is clear that it is not straight. Jack Russell -Clovis CA 601 XL Jabiru 3300 Progress update at: http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:10 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Imprortant New Corvair info from WW From: "Gig Giacona" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote: > I don't see anything new beyond what I read on the 15th. Am I missing > something? > > -- Craig > > -- No but I hadn't seen any mention of the issue here in the Zenith forum. I just came accross it recently over at R.A.H. -------- W.R. Gig Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=6248#6248 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:39 PM PST US From: "Richard T. Perry" Subject: Zenith-List: FAA Alerts had CH701 items this month. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard T. Perry" Sorry if this is a duplicate posting, folks, but I tried posting this several days ago and it seems to have never shown up in the digests that I get, so I'm assuming some SPAM filter munched it somewhere. Anyway, for those of us that aren't familiar with it, the FAA puts out a monthly publication - titled AC43-16A, or "Aviation Maintenance Alerts". It's a summary of feedback they're getting (either voluntarily or required per the FAR's) from operators and mechanics in the field. This last month (Dec 05) it had three items about the CH-701 in it. The issue can be had from the FAA at: http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/safety/alerts/aviation_maintenance/index.cfm It's been somewhat unusual to see items about experimental aircraft in the past - perhaps this is a sign of an increased focus on SLSA-type aircraft (which is a good thing, I think.) Anyway, the important bit is that while these reports carry NO regulatory weight with them, it's been my experience as an A&P that things that show up in this publication are worth keeping in mind the next time you look at an area of the aircraft, 'cause if somebody else noticed them and was motivated enough to send in a report on it...well, let's just say that most mechanics aren't known for their love of paperwork. We pass these publications around to all our guys in the shop here, and I try to keep a binder with back issues with the "items" about the aircraft we have here tabbed. Of the three items that I saw in this particular issue, the prop hub crack scared me a bit (considering this prop appears to have a history of cracking in other applications - check www.ultralightnews.ca and search on "Warp Drive" for further), and the other two issues concerned me a little considering they're both related to primary flight controls. I think that if I owned or maintained a 701 (I don't, not yet), I'd keep an eye on those areas, or possibly look at beefing up those areas a bit while building. Thanks - Richard Perry, A&P/IA ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:04:43 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rudder Workshop --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" My wife wants to challenge your dad to a clecoff. Ha Ha. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hines Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 7:59 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder Workshop --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" Guys, I went to the rudder workshop last week and it was great. The facilities were very nice and the people were fantastic. I really encourage anyone who is thinking about building to attend. I have some pictures of the workshop and the demo flight on my web site. Check it out and let me know what you think. http://www.johnsplane.com/ John John Hines IT Manager Crafton, Tull & Associates 901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 Rogers, AR 72756 Tel: 479-878-2449 Fax: 479-631-6224 Mob: 479-366-4783 This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:18 PM PST US From: Mike Sinclair Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FAA Alerts had CH701 items this month. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair Richard Appreciate you bringing the 701 safety alerts to our attention. As you (or any other A&P's) have regular access to these type of alerts, most defintely feel free to pass this info along to other builders. As I am limited to a dial up connection only, I don't usually see these type of alerts, though suspect I might try to look them up a little more. This one took over 45 minutes to download. Now, for what it's worth, I took a good look at the alert and my best guess on the prop hub crack is that it is probably on an older 582 powered 701 as it is only a 2 bladed prop. Most of the current builders if using a warp drive prop would now have one of the newer 3 blade assemblies. On the cracked elevator hinge bracket, this looks to be one area that should be looked at during conditional inspection. Though looking at the condition of the paint surrounding the area leads one to belive that this aircraft has had considerable use, possibly been parked outside a long time, and the problem should have been noticed quite some time ago due to the deterioration in the bend area. Finally, the loose rudder hinge problem looks to me to be a builders error in the first place. I have the plans dated 1986 and even in them it calls for AN3 bolts to hold this plate in place, not pop rivits. I would suspect that a close examination on this aircraft would find more than just the 3 problem area listed in the alert. That said, thanks again for passing on this info. Mike Sinclair N701TD > Anyway, for those of us that aren't familiar with it, the FAA puts out a > monthly publication - titled AC43-16A, or "Aviation Maintenance Alerts". > It's a summary of feedback they're getting (either voluntarily or required > per the FAR's) from operators and mechanics in the field. This last month > (Dec 05) it had three items about the CH-701 in it. The issue can be had > from the FAA at: > > http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/safety/alerts/aviation_maintenance/index.cfm > > the prop hub crack scared me a bit (considering this prop appears to have a > history of cracking in other applications - check www.ultralightnews.ca and > search on "Warp Drive" for further), and the other two issues concerned me a > little considering they're both related to primary flight controls. I think > that if I owned or maintained a 701 (I don't, not yet), I'd keep an eye on > those areas, or possibly look at beefing up those areas a bit while > building. > > Thanks - > > Richard Perry, A&P/IA > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:40:46 PM PST US From: Steve Hulland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FAA Alerts had CH701 items this month. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Steve Hulland Richard, I went to the web site you bookmarked, but could not find my way to AC43-16A. Can you give me some additional guidance - I am very interested in reading these safety items. On 1/23/06, Richard T. Perry wrote: > the FAA puts out a > monthly publication - titled AC43-16A, or "Aviation Maintenance Alerts". > It's a summary of feedback they're getting (either voluntarily or required > per the FAR's) from operators and mechanics in the field. This last month > (Dec 05) it had three items about the CH-701 in it. The issue can be had > from the FAA at: > http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/safety/alerts/aviation_maintenance/index.cfm > -- > Semper Fi, > Steven R. Hulland > CH 701, Amado, AZ > This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies > scanned prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:14:24 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: FAA Alerts had CH701 items this month. From: "lgingell" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lgingell" Its the December PDF: Look here: http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/safety/alerts/aviation_maintenance/media/2005/2005_12_Alert.pdf hope this helps you find it, ..lance -------- Zodiac XL/Jab 3300 http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=6337#6337 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:05 PM PST US From: Mike Sinclair Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FAA Alerts had CH701 items this month. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair Steve When you go to the link, and see the box with the 2006 that has the click down button, go there and pick 2005, then Dec. And it gets you right to where you need to go. Mike Sinclair ex- US Navy, Just like always, gotta help the Marines get to the beach! Steve Hulland wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Steve Hulland > > Richard, > I went to the web site you bookmarked, but could not find my way to > AC43-16A. Can you give me some additional guidance - I am very interested in > reading these safety items. > On 1/23/06, Richard T. Perry wrote: > : > > http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/safety/alerts/aviation_maintenance/index.cfm > > -- > > Semper Fi, > > Steven R. Hulland > > CH 701, Amado, AZ ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:31 PM PST US From: Mike Sinclair Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FAA Alerts had CH701 items this month. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair Steve When you go to the link, and see the box with the 2006 that has the click down button, go there and pick 2005, then Dec. And it gets you right to where you need to go. Mike Sinclair ex-US Navy (and not just an average boat jockey, 2 tours to Nam with one spent in the Delta riding river boats), & just like always, gotta help the Marines get to the beach! N701TD Steve Hulland wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Steve Hulland > > Richard, > I went to the web site you bookmarked, but could not find my way to > AC43-16A. Can you give me some additional guidance - I am very interested in > reading these safety items. > On 1/23/06, Richard T. Perry wrote: > : > > http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/safety/alerts/aviation_maintenance/index.cfm > > -- > > Semper Fi, > > Steven R. Hulland > > CH 701, Amado, AZ ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:32 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: FAA Alerts had CH701 items this month. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" Or as a tiny URL: http://tinyurl.com/9ew7d -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lgingell Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:10 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: FAA Alerts had CH701 items this month. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lgingell" --> Its the December PDF: Look here: http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/safety/alerts/aviation_maintenance/media/2005/20 05_12_Alert.pdf hope this helps you find it, ..lance -------- Zodiac XL/Jab 3300 http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=6337#6337 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:26 PM PST US From: Mike Sinclair Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FAA Alerts had CH701 items this month. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair My appologies guys, didn't think the first little bit of guff for the Marines went out. Thought I stopped it before it went because I wanted to add another line. And Steve, I hope you didn't take any offense, it's just a small part of the crap I get from my other ex-Marine friends. After seeing all the Semper-Fi, I finally couldn't hold back any longer. And for sure am proud of all our Vets. Mike Sinclair Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:30 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Aluminum Sheet Sourcing From: "Nate Erb" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Nate Erb" Hello Group, I have received my plans, the workshop is ready. Zodiac 601XL #6274 production will commence as soon as I procure the materials. It's very exciting, as I am sick of polishing my ass in front of this computer. I think I must have read the whole Internet by now. Television does nothing for me anymore. Here's what I've found on Al pricing so far, for archival purposes for future scratch-builders: 6061-T6 .025 48"x144" -------------------------------- Wicks - $87.15 on the web plus UPS shipping (~$18 I'm guessing) Aircraft Spruce - $77.50 on the web plus UPS shipping (~$18 I'm guessing) plus a $4 boxing charge SpeedyMetals (local - like MetalMart) - sold per pound @ $5.93 - so about $102.63 per their quote, but no shipping Yarde -- $57.20 per sheet - plus a skid fee of $75 plus freight (~$200) for the order I need 13 sheets of this. The price difference between the local-yokels at SpeedyMetals and Yarde is nearly $600.00! I don't know if you can get a certificate of quality from Yarde, and doubt the SpeedyMetals quote came with that. Caveat emptor! Buyer beware! If any of you are building from plans, IT PAYS TO SHOP AROUND FOR YOUR MATERIALS!!! And, like others here have warned, don't tell 'em what it's for. People hear "airplane" and you are instantly a Rockefeller. Price goes up 50%. Nate Erb 601XL from plans / Corvair power (well maybe, now with the crank issues and the 701/Warp Drive AC mentioned today) Plans looked at, workbench half ready. Planned completion 2053. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:50 PM PST US From: Steve Hulland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FAA Alerts had CH701 items this month. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Steve Hulland Mike, No offense taken, I am aware of the source. During my twenty plus years in the Corps I spent more than three years afloat, 2 years teaching at Navy/Marine Corps schools; 1.5 years as OIC of Navy/Marine Corps schools; 1/2 year stationed at NAS; and 2.5 years as Marine I&I at NAS. Rank varied from Sergeant to Captain. In all cases, the Navy guys needed lots of help reading/working radar/filling out personel evaluations/making decisions and figuring out who the enemy was. On the other hand, they never needed help with Acy-Ducy; Drinking Coffee; Finding their Rack; or Determining the best Liberty location and time. Besides, during those few times I needed a taxi from the boat to the beach, the Navy was there. I got to the beach via Navy taxi (excluding numerous liberty taxi's) eight times - appreciate the rides. BTW, I did go to the "Display Alerts" and attempted to display December 2005 - it did not work. Will try something else when I do not have to get some sleep before work. *Do Not Archive * -- Semper Fi, Steven R. Hulland CH 701, Amado, AZ This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:00:35 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aluminum Sheet Sourcing From: "Ron Lendon" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" I got almost all my material from the same source, Jim Dankovich. He procured it from Yarde and decided to sell it to me before he broke the bands. I picked it up a couple of weeks ago and have most of the rudder parts made. The price from the folks at Yarde seemed about the lowest, and their material, which Iv'e handled every sheet while loading into the rack, looks to be of good quality. Forms and bends just like 6061 T6 which is what the mill marks say. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=6367#6367 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:00 PM PST US From: Mike Sinclair Subject: [re: Zenith-List: FAA Alerts had CH701 items this month.] --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair Wow, 20+. You were quite a bit more serious about it than I or most of my peers were. But I do appreciate your dedication. And I noticed that being a normal Marine you couldn't avoid a minor jab about Acey Duecy, etc.. I am proud to have served with you guys. As a matter of fact it was some of your guys that helped me understand the first time I heard that strange kind of a screaming whistle, you need to make yourself as flat and small as possible. Amazing to see all those Marines laying on the deck around you, and a whole bunch of cherry swabbies looking at them and wondering what the hell was going on, until the bang! Next time I was right down there with them. Did a mapquest search and seen where Amado is (and seen that I have been thru there a couple of times), may have to look you up sometime in the next couple of years. I went to school at Pima College there in Tucson in the late 70's and have been kind of thinking about getting back down that way sometime to see how things have changed. Really enjoyed the area and the climate, but to make any money had to come back up to Wichita and the aircraft industry around here to make a living. But since Boeing sold the Wichita commercial division last year, and I was 55, I decided to retire and now have a bit more free time. Back to the AC43.16, it is a .pdf file and requires Adobe Acrobat to read it. If you don't have that on your computer, there is a link at the bottom of the page to download the reader. Also, I've noticed that when I sometimes try to open this type of file on Netscape (where my e-mail is) it doesn't always work, so in that case I copy the link and paste on Internet Explorer and then it will usually work. Hope this helps and maybe our paths will cross someday. Mike Sinclair Steve Hulland wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Steve Hulland > > Mike, > No offense taken, I am aware of the source. During my twenty plus years in > the Corps I spent more than three years afloat, 2 years teaching at > Navy/Marine Corps schools; 1.5 years as OIC of Navy/Marine Corps schools; > 1/2 year stationed at NAS; and 2.5 years as Marine I&I at NAS. Rank varied > from Sergeant to Captain. In all cases, the Navy guys needed lots of help > reading/working radar/filling out personel evaluations/making decisions and > figuring out who the enemy was. On the other hand, they never needed help > with Acy-Ducy; Drinking Coffee; Finding their Rack; or Determining the best > Liberty location and time. Besides, during those few times I needed a taxi > from the boat to the beach, the Navy was there. I got to the beach via Navy > taxi (excluding numerous liberty taxi's) eight times - appreciate the rides. > > BTW, > I did go to the "Display Alerts" and attempted to display December 2005 - it > did not work. Will try something else when I do not have to get some sleep > before work. > > *Do Not Archive > * > -- > Semper Fi, > Steven R. Hulland > CH 701, Amado, AZ > > This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned > prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:40 PM PST US From: Rory Davis Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FAA Alerts had CH701 items this month. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rory Davis Did anyone else get the impression that this particular 701 has been poorly maintained? In the photos of the rudder hinge, I believe the location was identified incorrectly in the report. That appears to be the upper rudder hinge plate 7F4-1, which as Mike correctly points out should be attached with 4 ea AN3-4A. It is identified as the _lower_ hinge bracket in the report. It also appears that the elevator hinge bracket described in the report is more properly identified as the center hinge gusset 7H5-4 in the 2004 plans, which has been changed from two L sections riveted together as shown in the photo, to a single bracket with an additional flange which would reduce the flexing of the gusset web which causes the stress crack at the bend. Rory CH-701 empennage nearly complete Mike Sinclair said the following on 1/23/2006 7:21 PM: > would now have one of the newer 3 blade assemblies. On the cracked elevator > hinge bracket, this looks to be one area that should be looked at during > conditional inspection. Though looking at the condition of the paint surrounding > the area leads one to belive that this aircraft has had considerable use, > possibly been parked outside a long time, and the problem should have been > noticed quite some time ago due to the deterioration in the bend area. Finally, > the loose rudder hinge problem looks to me to be a builders error in the first > place. I have the plans dated 1986 and even in them it calls for AN3 bolts to > hold this plate in place, not pop rivits. I would suspect that a close > examination on this aircraft would find more than just the 3 problem area listed > in the alert. > > That said, thanks again for passing on this info. > > Mike Sinclair N701TD > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:26:45 PM PST US From: Mike Sinclair Subject: Re: [re: Zenith-List: FAA Alerts had CH701 items this month.] --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair Once again I've got to apologize. I thought I was replying to Steve Hulland offline and find that I've once again sent something to the list which I did not intend. I've been modifying my cowl to accept the 17mm farther forward position of the new 912s and a larger oil cooler, as compared to the old 912ul and stock oil cooler, and I'm going to use the fiberglass resin fumes as an excuse. No more e-mails for me tonight! Do Not Archive Mike ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:24 PM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aluminum Sheet Sourcing --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" I still recommend Copper & Brass Sales, check the archives, everything I've bought from them for several years has been quoted at very good prices with freight paid. Of course, I live in Las Vegas, NV, I don't know how they handle more rural areas but they have distribution centers all over the country. Metals are a volume business, the more you buy the cheaper it gets per lb. When I need 3 sheets, I always ask for quotes on 3 sheets, 6 sheets, 10 sheets and 20 sheets to see where the real price breaks are. Also, at Copper & Brass Sales, they quote on the total weight of a shipment of a like material, i.e. all 6061T6, without regard for the various sheet thicknesses. Randy L. Thwing, do not archive > 6061-T6 .025 48"x144" > > -------------------------------- > > Wicks - $87.15 on the web plus UPS shipping (~$18 I'm guessing) > > Aircraft Spruce - $77.50 on the web plus UPS shipping (~$18 I'm > guessing) plus a $4 boxing charge > > SpeedyMetals (local - like MetalMart) - sold per pound @ $5.93 - so > about $102.63 per their quote, but no shipping > > Yarde -- $57.20 per sheet - plus a skid fee of $75 plus freight (~$200) > for the order ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:55 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Aluminum Sheet Sourcing --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" Hmm, interesting. I have the rest of Jim's project: the XL and a roll of aluminum. Jim sometimes reads this list - Hi Jim! -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lendon Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:59 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aluminum Sheet Sourcing --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" I got almost all my material from the same source, Jim Dankovich. He procured it from Yarde and decided to sell it to me before he broke the bands. I picked it up a couple of weeks ago and have most of the rudder parts made. The price from the folks at Yarde seemed about the lowest, and their material, which Iv'e handled every sheet while loading into the rack, looks to be of good quality. Forms and bends just like 6061 T6 which is what the mill marks say. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=6367#6367 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 11:03:00 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FAA Alerts had CH701 items this month. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower By the way, looks like that airplane (in the article) is very negletled (sp?) is no surprise to find this problems there, also I think (almost sure) is a pre 912 model, remember that the 701 has about 25 or more years since the first plans were released... Nothing better that a good daily preflight, personal washing the plane and constant by the book mantainance to keep a safe airplane. What ever, if someone finds something important like this, please let us all know. I (we all) appreciate it very much. Safety first. Saludos Gary Gower. Rory Davis wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rory Davis Did anyone else get the impression that this particular 701 has been poorly maintained? In the photos of the rudder hinge, I believe the location was identified incorrectly in the report. That appears to be the upper rudder hinge plate 7F4-1, which as Mike correctly points out should be attached with 4 ea AN3-4A. It is identified as the _lower_ hinge bracket in the report. It also appears that the elevator hinge bracket described in the report is more properly identified as the center hinge gusset 7H5-4 in the 2004 plans, which has been changed from two L sections riveted together as shown in the photo, to a single bracket with an additional flange which would reduce the flexing of the gusset web which causes the stress crack at the bend. Rory CH-701 empennage nearly complete Mike Sinclair said the following on 1/23/2006 7:21 PM: > would now have one of the newer 3 blade assemblies. On the cracked elevator > hinge bracket, this looks to be one area that should be looked at during > conditional inspection. Though looking at the condition of the paint surrounding > the area leads one to belive that this aircraft has had considerable use, > possibly been parked outside a long time, and the problem should have been > noticed quite some time ago due to the deterioration in the bend area. Finally, > the loose rudder hinge problem looks to me to be a builders error in the first > place. I have the plans dated 1986 and even in them it calls for AN3 bolts to > hold this plate in place, not pop rivits. I would suspect that a close > examination on this aircraft would find more than just the 3 problem area listed > in the alert. > > That said, thanks again for passing on this info. > > Mike Sinclair N701TD > --------------------------------- Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.