---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 01/25/06: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:31 AM - R912 oil filter & breather hose (Zed Smith) 2. 12:57 PM - fuel senders (Brad Cohen) 3. 01:13 PM - Non-Toxic Anti-corrosion?? (John Hines) 4. 01:23 PM - Re: Non-Toxic Anti-corrosion?? (kevinbonds) 5. 01:29 PM - Webmasters Sun-N-Fun BBQ (Zodie Rocket) 6. 01:49 PM - Re: fuel senders (N5SL) 7. 03:02 PM - Tire size and Zero G. (Tim Egan) 8. 03:39 PM - Re: Tire size and Zero G. (John Marzulli) 9. 04:18 PM - Re: Tire size and Zero G. (Samm Munn) 10. 05:04 PM - Fuel tanks - one done, one to go (Carlos Sa) 11. 05:30 PM - Re: Tire size and Zero G. (Larry McFarland) 12. 05:41 PM - Re: Fuel tanks - one done, one to go (n801bh@netzero.com) 13. 07:03 PM - Re: fuel senders (Paul Mulwitz) 14. 09:50 PM - Re: fuel senders (Jon Croke) 15. 10:33 PM - Re: Tire size and Zero G. (Paul Mulwitz) 16. 10:47 PM - Hawaii metal tool shops? (Chris sinfield) 17. 11:30 PM - Re: N701ZX 1st flight (NYTerminat@aol.com) 18. 11:37 PM - Re: N701ZX 1st flight (NYTerminat@AOL.COM) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:31:56 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: R912 oil filter & breather hose --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith List - Somebody emailed me off-list asking about safety-wiring the oil filter and also asked if there was an easy way to prevent the oil tank breather hose from making bottom of plane nasty. My apologies.....in a hasty session of deleting a bunch of stuff, yours got trashed. At this point we insert DO NOT ARCHIVE. At a Rotax factory school we were shown the easy way to safety the filter: Put an appropriate size hose clamp around the filter right at the base of the filter, nice and snug, don't crush the filter. Then safety the clamp with wire around the clamp bolt head and through the nearby engine case bolt head which already has a hole for the wire. The clamp can be rotated such that the clamp bolt is near the case bolt.....makes for a really short safety wire. ZAC drawings/assembly manual (mine, at least) call for a hose from the oil tank breather to a point just below the bottom of the firewall (in the airstream). If you run this hose to a bottle, akin to the water overflow bottle, then the dripping oil ends up in the bottle and not smeared all over the bottom of the fuselage. One caution.....no need for a short hose inside the bottle, and drill a couple of #30 holes in the bottle cap so it too can breathe. Mounting on the firewall is much like the radiator overflow bottle; where it fits best. My 912 previously lived on a pusher, had the breather bottle setup, and never got spatters on the tail surfaces. Hope this is helpful, whoever you were, Zed/701/R912/90% etc do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:57:46 PM PST US From: "Brad Cohen" Subject: Zenith-List: fuel senders --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brad Cohen" hello all, after a short hiatus, I have returned to working on N969BC, my 601XL. I have a question regarding the fuel senders. I have installed both units on the top of the tanks as so many of you suggested. I bent the float arm so the float rests on the very bottom of the tank when it is empty. According to the plans the Ohms should be 70 for empty and 10 for full fuel. Of course that's not exactly how mine turned out. both tanks varied somewhat from 70.5 to 68.3 (empty) as I added water 2 gallons at a time I took a new reading with the Ohm meter and started getting inconsistent results. 0 gals; 70.5/68.3 (in Ohms, Right tank then Left) 2 gal; 46.4/37.2 4 gal; 35/27.8 6 gal; 28.5/21.9 8 gal; 22.2/21.9 10gal; 24/22.2 12 gal;27/29.6 14.5 gal; 26/27 Believe it or not, at 6 degrees incidence 14.5 gal was the most I could stuff into the tanks. you can see the inversion of the readings @ ~ half tanks I assume due to the bent float arm is this discrepancy something that I can rectify when the gauges are installed? did I make a huge error when I installed the damn things? any suggestions? -Brad Cohen ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:13:48 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Non-Toxic Anti-corrosion?? From: "John Hines" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" When I was at the Rudder workshop last week they had coated everything with a non-toxic anti-corrosive paint. I forgot to ask what it was and I don't see it mentioned on their web site. Does anyone know what it is? Thanks, John www.johnsplane.com Do not archive John Hines IT Manager Crafton, Tull & Associates 901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 Rogers, AR 72756 Tel: 479-878-2449 Fax: 479-631-6224 Mob: 479-366-4783 This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:23:14 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Non-Toxic Anti-corrosion?? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" Cortec. Look it up in the archives. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hines Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 3:17 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Non-Toxic Anti-corrosion?? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" When I was at the Rudder workshop last week they had coated everything with a non-toxic anti-corrosive paint. I forgot to ask what it was and I don't see it mentioned on their web site. Does anyone know what it is? Thanks, John www.johnsplane.com Do not archive John Hines IT Manager Crafton, Tull & Associates 901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 Rogers, AR 72756 Tel: 479-878-2449 Fax: 479-631-6224 Mob: 479-366-4783 This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:29:22 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: Zenith-List: Webmasters Sun-N-Fun BBQ --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" Hello Listers, once again David, Jon, Rick and Myself will be holding the 2nd annual Webmasters BBQ. This event is dated for Thursday April 6 2006 right after the show, running till over, which was 8pm last year(last trolley back to parking area). The BBQ is a non-company event by builders for builders and flyers and interested parties. We do not charge anything, but since it does come out of our pockets we will have the jar available again. We have unfortunately run into one snag this year David and I are not camping! We do have other avenues for location but would prefer to hold it in the same camping area. I'm requesting fellow campers who are going to Sun-N-Fun to possibly setup in the area of the BBQ last year, we will look after all the other arrangements we just need Zenith people in the area. Please let me know if your able to do this ASAP or else I will have to make other arrangements. Thanks Folks Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com -- 1/20/2006 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:49:38 PM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel senders --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Hi Brad: I'm probably missing something here, but why don't you wire the fuel gauge to the sender, then add 12Vdc to get an actual reading on your gauge? That's what I did. Scott Laughlin www.cooknwithgas.com > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brad Cohen" > > Believe it or not, at 6 degrees incidence 14.5 gal > was the most I could stuff into the tanks. you can > see the inversion of the readings @ ~ half tanks I > assume due to the bent float arm > is this discrepancy something that I can rectify > when the gauges are installed? did I make a huge > error when I installed the damn things? any > suggestions? > > -Brad Cohen ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:02:01 PM PST US From: "Tim Egan" Subject: Zenith-List: Tire size and Zero G. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Egan" Folks, Anyone here have the size of tire handy for a 601 HD? Need to get new ones ordered, and had to leave my plane in MT last weekend. Got my destination socked in by fog for 2 days. Also got to experience a momentary zero G in clear air, all of the sudden my camera bag is floating in the canopy and then over to my side of the plane. Lost close to 1000 feet before the ride was thru. Still analying in my mind, and so am not sure if I suddenly got a 50 mph tail causing a stall and drop or if it was downdraft, or a black hole. No damage to the plane, we were flying wings level the whole time. TimE ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:39:27 PM PST US From: John Marzulli Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tire size and Zero G. --> Zenith-List message posted by: John Marzulli I've been hearing conflicting views recently about how to deal with that sort of down draft situation. One side says to just try to hold your attitude while another has told me to try to "dive" out of a draft like that to get out of it quicker. I know there is a lot of GA experience on the list so any thoughts or comments? DO NOT ARCHIVE On 1/25/06, Tim Egan wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Egan" > > Folks, > Anyone here have the size of tire handy for a 601 HD? > Need to get new ones ordered, and had to leave my plane > in MT last weekend. > Got my destination socked in by fog for 2 days. > Also got to experience a momentary zero G in clear air, > all of the sudden my camera bag is floating in the canopy > and then over to my side of the plane. Lost close to 1000 feet > before the ride was thru. Still analying in my mind, and so > am not sure if I suddenly got a 50 mph tail causing a stall > and drop or if it was downdraft, or a black hole. > No damage to the plane, we were flying wings level the whole > time. > TimE > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:18:37 PM PST US From: "Samm Munn" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tire size and Zero G. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Samm Munn" Just try to keep the wings level and reduce airspeed to your aircraft's maneuvering speed. DO NOT fight to keep the aircraft on altitude. You may amplify the vertical oscillations resulting in increased load on the wings and you might either stall or overload the wings during a pull-up. Just SLOW DOWN and try to keep the wings level!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Marzulli" Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 5:38 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tire size and Zero G. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: John Marzulli > > I've been hearing conflicting views recently about how to deal with that > sort of down draft situation. > > One side says to just try to hold your attitude while another has told me > to > try to "dive" out of a draft like that to get out of it quicker. > > I know there is a lot of GA experience on the list so any thoughts or > comments? > > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > On 1/25/06, Tim Egan wrote: >> >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Egan" >> >> Folks, >> Anyone here have the size of tire handy for a 601 HD? >> Need to get new ones ordered, and had to leave my plane >> in MT last weekend. >> Got my destination socked in by fog for 2 days. >> Also got to experience a momentary zero G in clear air, >> all of the sudden my camera bag is floating in the canopy >> and then over to my side of the plane. Lost close to 1000 feet >> before the ride was thru. Still analying in my mind, and so >> am not sure if I suddenly got a 50 mph tail causing a stall >> and drop or if it was downdraft, or a black hole. >> No damage to the plane, we were flying wings level the whole >> time. >> TimE >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:04 PM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel tanks - one done, one to go --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Hello, all Sunday I finished one of the (CH601-HD) wing tanks - riveted, not welded ("stirred, not shaken"?!) I had help from so many people (via direct email and through this list) that I can't name them - but they know who they are, and a big "thank you" goes to them all! As this is not the "normal" approach to building ZAC fuel tanks, I was on my own: a lot of internet surfing and head scratching was required. Much of the information came from builders web sites, particularly Graham Kirby ( http://www.601hd.com/index.htm ) and RV builders, like Dan Checkoway, who is writing a series for Kitplanes. ( http://www.rvproject.com/ ) I still have another tank to finish (this weekend, probably), but I posted a few pictures of the completed work here: http://www3.sympatico.ca/c.sa/tank.html Hold your breath ask you click the URL... :o) Cheers Carlos CH601-HD (a solid tradition in building fine aeroplanes since 1998 - number completed: 0.008) --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:30:53 PM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tire size and Zero G. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Tim, If you're using the 8-inch wheels the tire size is generally called an 4.00 by 8.00. I use a Michelin 3.5 by 8.0 called the S-83 tire. It's used on motor scooters. Excellent tire, rounded section and much easier to look at than the wheelbarrow tires. Tubes for these also have the bent stems that are easily accessible. Sometime ago, when getting a final check ride for re-establishment of my pilot certificate, my instructor and I encountered a wind-shear on final approach that cost us 100 feet with no notice. Shortly after commenting that I was a little high we dropped as if the wings were cut off, no imbalance or change in attitude, but when we caught air again and regained control, we were only 30 feet above the runway. I'd never encountered shear before or since. It doesn't seem to be something you can do anything about or do to prevent short of flying higher or not flying at all. Very scary experience to say the least! We did report wind-shear to the tower which provided warning to other aircraft on approach for a while. Larry McFarland do not archive Tim Egan wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Egan" > >Folks, >Anyone here have the size of tire handy for a 601 HD? >Need to get new ones ordered, and had to leave my plane >in MT last weekend. >Got my destination socked in by fog for 2 days. >Also got to experience a momentary zero G in clear air, >all of the sudden my camera bag is floating in the canopy >and then over to my side of the plane. Lost close to 1000 feet >before the ride was thru. Still analying in my mind, and so >am not sure if I suddenly got a 50 mph tail causing a stall >and drop or if it was downdraft, or a black hole. >No damage to the plane, we were flying wings level the whole >time. >TimE > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:22 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel tanks - one done, one to go --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" Sunday I finished one of the (CH601-HD) wing tanks - riveted, not welded ("stirred, not shaken"?!) I had help from so many people (via direct email and through this list) that I can't name them - but they know who they are, and a big "thank you" goes to them all! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Nice clean looking work... Good job. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com Sunday I finished one of the (CH601-HD) wing tanks - riveted, not welded ("stirred, not shaken"?!) I had help from so many people (via direct email and through this list) that I can't name them - but they know who they are, and a big "thank you" goes to them all! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Nice clean looking work... Good job. do not archive BenHaas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:44 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel senders --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz Hi Brad, I think your problem might be the water. The fuel sender has an open frame variable resistor which the water can reach. If the water is not completely pure, it will short it all out. I don't think this will cause permanent damage. Just dry it all out and repeat your test using fuel. Good luck, Paul XL wings At 12:56 PM 1/25/2006, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brad Cohen" > as I added water 2 gallons at a time I took a new reading with > the Ohm meter and started getting inconsistent results. > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:06 PM PST US From: "Jon Croke" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel senders --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" Hi Brad, I went thru this same thing a couple years ago... here is the reason for inaccurate readings.. If you use WATER, there are minerals (salt, iron etc) and you have created a small battery! You have an aluminum tank, and an electrolyte (water with trace minerals, esp if you have well water) and then some steel parts in the sender. If you use your VOLT meter, you can detect millivolts being generated from this combination that will mess up any OHM meter readings.... the moral of the story is: dont use WATER to take your tests. USE gasoline or other solvent and you will find it works just right. The complete story is in the archives (with my name)... like I say, I went thru this SAME issue and it was frustrating and misleading until I discovered this! Good luck Jon 701 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Cohen" > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brad Cohen" > > hello all, > after a short hiatus, I have returned to working on N969BC, my 601XL. I > have a question regarding the fuel senders. > I have installed both units on the top of the tanks as so many of you > suggested. I bent the float arm so the float rests on the very bottom of > the tank when it is empty. According to the plans the Ohms should be 70 > for empty and 10 for full fuel. > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:33:22 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tire size and Zero G. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz I got involved in this discussion last time around, so I can give a quick summary. In powered planes, it is probably best to maintain attitude (and airspeed) and wait for the downdraft to go away. Apparently glider drivers like to push the nose down to get through this sort of thing more quickly. Good luck, Paul XL wings At 03:38 PM 1/25/2006, you wrote: >I've been hearing conflicting views recently about how to deal with that >sort of down draft situation. > >One side says to just try to hold your attitude while another has told me to >try to "dive" out of a draft like that to get out of it quicker. > >I know there is a lot of GA experience on the list so any thoughts or >comments? --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:46 PM PST US From: Chris sinfield Subject: Zenith-List: Hawaii metal tool shops? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Chris sinfield Any one know of any good aircraft tool shops in Hawaii (Hono)? I have a day off there soon and wanted to pick up a heap of metal working tools and Clico's to build my XL.. They must me cheaper than here in Australia or even buying and shipping to Aust from Aircraft Spruce?? So are there any shops around Hono that carry the range of tools needed?.. and would they be any cheeper than getting stuff shipped from the mainland back to Australia.. Weight this trip would not be a problem as it will be in my plane.. Chris.. --------------------------------- Bring words and photos together (easily) with ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:30:56 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N701ZX 1st flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com Johann Thanks , The weight was within a few lbs so I suspect I have a rigging problem. Bob do not archive In a message dated 1/20/2006 7:54:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, johann@rafpostur.is writes: Hello Bob. Congratulations on your first flight. I did not experience any left turn tendance. Was there much difference between the weight of thr right and left main wheels, when doing the weight and banlance? ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:56 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N701ZX 1st flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com Chuck Thanks, I will look into that. Bob Spudis Do not archive In a message dated 1/20/2006 11:49:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, cfd@thegateway.net writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" I too initially had a "heavy" left wing. My heavy wing is due to the down elevator cable being pulled to the side by a spring to avoid rubbing the up cable. The spring puts a slight torque on the stick causing the left wing to act heavy. Once I put the tab on the right flaperon which cancels most of the roll and my vernier adjustment (adjustable spring tension on the aileron push rod) all is fine. I have flown with various tank loadings and passengers, there is very little roll influence from the loadings. Chuck D. N701TX