---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 01/27/06: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:28 AM - Dynon Help please (Zodie Rocket) 2. 07:20 AM - Wing skin tension (Wes or Lurlene Bressler) 3. 07:56 AM - Re: Wing skin tension (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 4. 08:09 AM - Re: Wing skin tension (Bill Howerton) 5. 08:12 AM - Re: Wing skin tension (doug kandle) 6. 08:46 AM - Re: Wing skin tension (N5SL) 7. 09:15 AM - Re: Wing skin tension (Paul Mulwitz) 8. 11:07 AM - XL flap speed (601corvair) 9. 11:17 AM - Rotax 912 Engine List (Stanley Challgren) 10. 11:36 AM - Re: XL flap speed (bryanmmartin@comcast.net) 11. 12:53 PM - Re: Rotax 912 Engine List (Gary Gower) 12. 03:08 PM - Re: Dynon Help please (Samm Munn) 13. 03:36 PM - Re: Wing skin tension (Zodie Rocket) 14. 03:52 PM - Re: Wing skin tension (William J. Naumuk) 15. 04:43 PM - Re: Wing skin tension (N5SL) 16. 06:34 PM - The Building has begun (Ron Lendon) 17. 07:51 PM - Re: N701ZX 1st flight (NYTerminat@aol.com) 18. 08:44 PM - Re: The Building has begun (Mike Sinclair) 19. 10:03 PM - Re: The Building has begun (Bill Howerton) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:28:38 AM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: Zenith-List: Dynon Help please --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" Has anyone installed the Dynon in there 601XL if so could you send some pictures of the installation please. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com -- 1/26/2006 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:17 AM PST US From: "Wes or Lurlene Bressler" Subject: Zenith-List: Wing skin tension --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wes or Lurlene Bressler" Thread Users: We are building a 601XL from a kit and are about to turn the first wing. The Photo Guide indicates that after installation of the nose ribs and leading edge skin, the wing is again turned and tension straps are used for making the final curvature. The instructions indicate that a 2x4 should be used to bring the skin into alignment. Our concern is that local lumber yards only handle grade 2 "construction grade" pine that will have warps and twists in a 12' length. How important is it that the 2x4 be straight and flat? Is there another method that others have used for load distribution? Wes & Lurlene Bressler ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:43 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wing skin tension From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" It certainly does not have to be completely flat but not horribly twisted either....a standard #2 should be fine. If your worried about it u could rip some strips of ply and glue them together to make 1.5 thick but personally I think this is overkill. Frank 601 HDS 390 hours -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wes or Lurlene Bressler Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 7:16 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Wing skin tension --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wes or Lurlene Bressler" --> Thread Users: We are building a 601XL from a kit and are about to turn the first wing. The Photo Guide indicates that after installation of the nose ribs and leading edge skin, the wing is again turned and tension straps are used for making the final curvature. The instructions indicate that a 2x4 should be used to bring the skin into alignment. Our concern is that local lumber yards only handle grade 2 "construction grade" pine that will have warps and twists in a 12' length. How important is it that the 2x4 be straight and flat? Is there another method that others have used for load distribution? Wes & Lurlene Bressler ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:58 AM PST US From: "Bill Howerton" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing skin tension --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" I'ts reallno not critical that the boards be perferct, as long as they can lay flat on the skin. The main thing you need to think about is that the skin be subjected to even pressure. Instead of 2X4's I used three 1X2's. That way, I was able to duct-tape them to the skin so they wouldn't shift while the straps were tightened. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wes or Lurlene Bressler" To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: Wing skin tension Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 08:15:56 -0700 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wes or Lurlene Bressler" Thread Users: We are building a 601XL from a kit and are about to turn the first wing. The Photo Guide indicates that after installation of the nose ribs and leading edge skin, the wing is again turned and tension straps are used for making the final curvature. The instructions indicate that a 2x4 should be used to bring the skin into alignment. Our concern is that local lumber yards only handle grade 2 "construction grade" pine that will have warps and twists in a 12' length. How important is it that the 2x4 be straight and flat? Is there another method that others have used for load distribution? Wes & Lurlene Bressler ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:06 AM PST US From: doug kandle Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing skin tension --> Zenith-List message posted by: doug kandle Wes & Lurlene: I used lengths MDF and vinyl trim/moldings (trim used on exterior doors is about 1 x 2 or a bit bigger). While neither of these are as rigid as solid wood, they are dimensionally stable. They worked well, especially the vinyl. Doug Kandle, CH 701 At 08:15 AM 1/27/2006, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wes or Lurlene Bressler" > > >Thread Users: >We are building a 601XL from a kit and are about to turn the first >wing. The Photo Guide indicates that after installation of the nose >ribs and leading edge skin, the wing is again turned and tension >straps are used for making the final curvature. The instructions >indicate that a 2x4 should be used to bring the skin into alignment. >Our concern is that local lumber yards only handle grade 2 >"construction grade" pine that will have warps and twists in a 12' >length. How important is it that the 2x4 be straight and flat? Is >there another method that others have used for load distribution? > >Wes & Lurlene Bressler > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:46:47 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing skin tension --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Hi Wes (and Lurlene): Don't sweat it. As long as you can find something that will press evenly across most of the length you will be fine. I did it so many times I didn't use the wood after it was drilled. I ripped a 2x4 in half so I'd have two pieces. It's just there to spread out the load. Here's a picture and you can see that my timber was not perfectly flat: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/2_25_04_Wing1.JPG You will be a pro at this before it's over since you'll get lots of practice. Happy Building, Scott Laughlin www.cooknwithgas.com --- Wes or Lurlene Bressler wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wes or Lurlene > Bressler" Is there another method that others have > used for load distribution? > > Wes & Lurlene Bressler ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:15:27 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing skin tension --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz >I guess we all missed the part about using 2x4's. I used 1x3's I >selected for their straight grain. I agree it is more important for >the boards to be flat than anything else. It doesn't matter if they >have holes in them or chips missing - only that they can lay flat on the skin. Good luck, Paul XL wings >Thread Users: >We are building a 601XL from a kit and are about to turn the first >wing. The Photo Guide indicates that after installation of the nose >ribs and leading edge skin, the wing is again turned and tension >straps are used for making the final curvature. The instructions >indicate that a 2x4 should be used to bring the skin into alignment. >Our concern is that local lumber yards only handle grade 2 >"construction grade" pine that will have warps and twists in a 12' >length. How important is it that the 2x4 be straight and flat? Is >there another method that others have used for load distribution? > >Wes & Lurlene Bressler > - ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:07:59 AM PST US From: 601corvair Subject: Zenith-List: XL flap speed --> Zenith-List message posted by: 601corvair Hi All: Does anyone know the degrees of travel of the XL flaps and the rate at which they can be deployed and retracted (either in total travel time or degrees/sec). Has anyone ever counted the seconds? For that matter how long does it take to retract the 40 degrees of flaps in a C150? My memory of my training days fades and I am now using manual flaps and they work as quick as my wrist. --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:17:59 AM PST US Cc: Stanley Challgren From: Stanley Challgren Subject: Zenith-List: Rotax 912 Engine List --> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren Listees: I am seriously considering the 912S for the 701 I will begin building on Feb 16 at the rudder workshop. I am unable to find a Rotax engine list similar to the one that the Jabiru owners have. I would like to be part of a Rotax Builders List before making my final decision. Can anyone suggest such a list? Stan Challgren 701 Builder-to-be ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:36:21 AM PST US From: bryanmmartin@comcast.net Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL flap speed --> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net Nominal travel on the XL flaps is 30 degrees. If I recall correctly, total travel time to the stops is about 6 seconds. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive -------------- Original message -------------- From: 601corvair > --> Zenith-List message posted by: 601corvair > > Hi All: > Does anyone know the degrees of travel of the XL flaps and the rate at which > they can be deployed and retracted (either in total travel time or > degrees/sec). Has anyone ever counted the seconds? For that matter how long > does it take to retract the 40 degrees of flaps in a C150? My memory of my > training days fades and I am now using manual flaps and they work as quick as > my wrist. Nominal travel on the XL flaps is 30 degrees. If I recall correctly, total travel time to the stops is about 6 seconds. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive -------------- Original message -------------- From: 601corvair airvair601@yahoo.com -- Zenith-List message posted by: 601corvair Hi All: Does anyone know the degrees of travel of the XL flaps and the rate at which they can be deployed and retracted (either in total travel time or degrees/sec). Has anyone ever counted the seconds? For that matter how long does it take to retract the 40 degrees of flaps in a C150? My memory of my training days fades and I am now using manual flaps and they work as quick as my wrist. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:53:22 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotax 912 Engine List --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Hello Stan, I dont know if there is a Rotax 912S list... But I have one in my 701, is perfect for the plane, like that was designed for this plane. Have taken off from 6,300 ft ASL and cruised at 11,500 with no problem. Take off is great. Just very happy with my plane, better than spected! Welcome to the 701 family anytime. Saludos Gary Gower 701 912S Flying from Chapala, Mexico. Stanley Challgren wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren Listees: I am seriously considering the 912S for the 701 I will begin building on Feb 16 at the rudder workshop. I am unable to find a Rotax engine list similar to the one that the Jabiru owners have. I would like to be part of a Rotax Builders List before making my final decision. Can anyone suggest such a list? Stan Challgren 701 Builder-to-be --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:40 PM PST US From: "Samm Munn" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dynon Help please --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Samm Munn" Try here: http://www.epanelbuilder.com/legacy/ at the bottom of the page. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zodie Rocket" Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 6:19 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Dynon Help please > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" > > Has anyone installed the Dynon in there 601XL if so could you send some > pictures of the installation please. > > Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario > Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started > www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com > > > > -- > 1/26/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:36:43 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wing skin tension --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" DUCT TAPE !!! now why the hell didn't I think of that on my 1X2's The shifting board act was akin to an episode of the keystone cops!!! Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" I used three 1X2's. That way, I was able to duct-tape them to the skin so they wouldn't shift while the straps were tightened. Bill -- 1/27/2006 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:52:39 PM PST US From: "William J. Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing skin tension --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. Naumuk" The hold-down doesn't "Bring the skin into alignment". Correct shim height, making sure the shims can't move, and making sure you have the print correct part in the print correct location does. I found that the 1x3s I scavenged from the packing crate to be perfectly suitable. Just make sure there are no exposed staples. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 10:53 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wing skin tension > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > It certainly does not have to be completely flat but not horribly > twisted either....a standard #2 should be fine. > > If your worried about it u could rip some strips of ply and glue them > together to make 1.5 thick but personally I think this is overkill. > > Frank > 601 HDS 390 hours > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wes or > Lurlene Bressler > Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 7:16 AM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Wing skin tension > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wes or Lurlene Bressler" > --> > > Thread Users: > We are building a 601XL from a kit and are about to turn the first wing. > The Photo Guide indicates that after installation of the nose ribs and > leading edge skin, the wing is again turned and tension straps are used > for making the final curvature. The instructions indicate that a 2x4 > should be used to bring the skin into alignment. Our concern is that > local lumber yards only handle grade 2 "construction grade" pine that > will have warps and twists in a 12' length. How important is it that the > 2x4 be straight and flat? Is there another method that others have used > for load distribution? > > Wes & Lurlene Bressler > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:43:39 PM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing skin tension --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Shims? You lost me there. I must have missed something because I didn't use any shims. --- "William J. Naumuk" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William J. > Naumuk" > > The hold-down doesn't "Bring the skin into > alignment". Correct shim height, > making sure the shims can't move, and making sure > you have the print correct > part in the print correct location does. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:38 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: The Building has begun From: "Ron Lendon" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" Hey Builders, On January 15, 2006 I started cutting metal. Up till then it has been Planning, Preparing the garage and making tools (forms). This is so much fun I can't keep up with the logs. I have taken many pictures and hope to put together a better website. If you want to see a little of the start take a look at the Kitlog site of mine. http://www.kitlog.com/users/index.php?user=rlendon&project=113 Thanks for all the encouragement and sharing. I hope to follow your example. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=7465#7465 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:14 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N701ZX 1st flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com Chuck I took off the bungee from the elevator cable and tweaked my right flaperon two threads and it flys straight. I had installed nylon tubing over my elevator cables during construction so the cable rubbing should be a non issue. Thanks for your input. Bob Spudis N701ZX 2.7 hrs In a message dated 1/26/2006 2:39:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, NYTerminat@aol.com writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com Chuck Thanks, I will look into that. Bob Spudis Do not archive In a message dated 1/20/2006 11:49:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, cfd@thegateway.net writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" I too initially had a "heavy" left wing. My heavy wing is due to the down elevator cable being pulled to the side by a spring to avoid rubbing the up cable. The spring puts a slight torque on the stick causing the left wing to act heavy. Once I put the tab on the right flaperon which cancels most of the roll and my vernier adjustment (adjustable spring tension on the aileron push rod) all is fine. I have flown with various tank loadings and passengers, there is very little roll influence from the loadings. Chuck D. N701TX ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:44 PM PST US From: Mike Sinclair Subject: Re: Zenith-List: The Building has begun --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair Ron > Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI > Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder Welcome to the metal airplane business. I did find it interesting that you signed off as a Zodiac XL, "Scrap"builder. I have a small pile of "scrap" also, and I built my airplane from a kit. Hate to imagine how many times some parts would have been made if building from scratch. My hat is off to you guys that can go that route. Mike Sinclair N701TD If the weather holds as it has around here this winter, should be ready to start the engine, checking systems, and then flight testing in the next couple of weeks. Wet sanding the cowling today wearing shorts and sandals. I don't ever remember a winter this mild in Kansas. Usually have to go quite a ways farther south to get these temperatures. Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:10 PM PST US From: "Bill Howerton" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: The Building has begun --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" Amen brother! I've ruined bunches of pre-formed parts drilling in the wrong place, or cutting the wrong angle. I can't imagine how much scrap I'd have if I was doing it all from scratch. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Sinclair" Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 9:41 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: The Building has begun > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair > > Ron > >> Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI >> Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder > > Welcome to the metal airplane business. I did find it interesting that you > signed off as a Zodiac XL, "Scrap"builder. I have a small pile of "scrap" > also, and I built my airplane from > a kit. Hate to imagine how many times some parts would have been made if > building from scratch. My hat is off to you guys that can go that route. > > Mike Sinclair N701TD If the weather holds as it has around here this > winter, should be ready to start the engine, checking systems, and then > flight testing in the next couple of > weeks. Wet sanding the cowling today wearing shorts and sandals. I don't > ever remember a winter this mild in Kansas. Usually have to go quite a > ways farther south to get these > temperatures. > > Do Not Archive > > >