Zenith-List Digest Archive

Tue 01/31/06


Total Messages Posted: 14



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:35 AM - Re: Elctrical Wiring Software (Martin Pohl)
     2. 09:36 AM - control cables (john butterfield)
     3. 10:04 AM - Re: Matco Brake Fluid (P.H. Raker)
     4. 10:27 AM - Re: control cables (japhillipsga@aol.com)
     5. 11:05 AM - Re: Re: Matco Brake Fluid (Leo Gates)
     6. 11:33 AM - Re: Re: Matco Brake Fluid (Jim Hoak)
     7. 11:50 AM - Re: Re: Matco Brake Fluid (Bryan Martin)
     8. 12:35 PM -  Re: Matco Brake Fluid (neitzel)
     9. 12:41 PM - Can you reweld a 701 cabin frame? (Tony Bonsell)
    10. 01:44 PM - Re: Re: Matco Brake Fluid (Rick R)
    11. 01:53 PM - Re: Can you reweld a 701 cabin frame? (Keith Ashcraft)
    12. 02:31 PM - Re: Re: Matco Brake Fluid (cgalley)
    13. 02:55 PM - Re: Can you reweld a 701 cabin frame? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
    14. 05:07 PM - Re: Can you reweld a 701 cabin frame? (Keith Ashcraft)
    15. 11:58 PM - Vs: Can you reweld a 701 cabin frame? (Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:35:27 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Elctrical Wiring Software
    From: "Martin Pohl" <mpohl@pohltec.ch>
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Martin Pohl" <mpohl@pohltec.ch> "PCB123 Schematic" is great!!! Thanks for the link. Cheers Martin ___________________________ Martin Pohl Zodiac XL QBK Jona, Switzerland Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=8383#8383


    Message 2


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    Time: 09:36:51 AM PST US
    From: john butterfield <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
    Subject: control cables
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com> hi list there dosen't seem to be much information on the installation of the control surface cables. they are clearly set out, but what is the best way to install them as you complete the plane. I have the wings done and most of the fuse. How do you guys do the controls, ie, connect the ends to the control surfaces and just run the cables to the stick area and connect later, I understand the actual connections on the elevators and rudder are easily removed, but i would like to finish the aeliron bell crank and close the wing and not have to work through the inspection plate. If i must, then i must. any ideas regarding the order, proceedures for controls kor other helpful hints would be great regards john butterfield XL, corvair


    Message 3


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    Time: 10:04:12 AM PST US
    From: "P.H. Raker" <n556p@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Matco Brake Fluid
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: "P.H. Raker" <n556p@yahoo.com> Hello, Mac said that Matco recommends DOT-5 brake fluid. I've heard others say that 5606 is the only thing to use, while others say to use "Dexron" Automatic Transmission Fluid. The ATF is certainly the least expensive and should be compatible with just about any hydraulic system components. Can anyone think of a good reason NOT to use ATF? Has anyone used it? Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed


    Message 4


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    Time: 10:27:44 AM PST US
    From: japhillipsga@aol.com
    Subject: Re: control cables
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: japhillipsga@aol.com John, What I did on my XL was I ran a nylon cord from each connection on the bellcrank through the wing rib holes and tied them together at the root for safe keeping. As you are making the final attachment of the wing to the fuselage you attach the cables to the bellcrank side of each cord and pull the cable through. Now you can make a reasonable guesstmate on alerion cable length. You swedge the cable ends to the bellcrank, connect, and the feed the running ends through the fairleads on the side of the fuselage. Then you push the wing on in and bolt it to the center section and rear spar bracket. Then cut and swedge the in board ends to fit. As designed by ZAC you can remove the wings by disconnecting the bellcrank ends and pulling them through as you pull the wing out. If you do this remember to re-attach a cord to the cable ends so you can pull the cables back through when you re-attach the wing. I hope this makes sense. Was not very difficult to do, best regards, Bill N505WP 601XL-3300w/DC -----Original Message----- From: john butterfield <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com> Sent: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 09:31:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: Zenith-List: control cables --> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com> hi list there dosen't seem to be much information on the installation of the control surface cables. they are clearly set out, but what is the best way to install them as you complete the plane. I have the wings done and most of the fuse. How do you guys do the controls, ie, connect the ends to the control surfaces and just run the cables to the stick area and connect later, I understand the actual connections on the elevators and rudder are easily removed, but i would like to finish the aeliron bell crank and close the wing and not have to work through the inspection plate. If i must, then i must. any ideas regarding the order, proceedures for controls kor other helpful hints would be great regards john butterfield XL, corvair


    Message 5


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    Time: 11:05:54 AM PST US
    From: Leo Gates <leogates@allvantage.com>
    Subject: Re: Matco Brake Fluid
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: Leo Gates <leogates@allvantage.com> Dexron ATF has been in my Matco breaks for 2+ years now. 85+ flying hours. Cheap, works, available any where, Why use anything else? Leo Gates N601Z, CH601HDS, TDO P.H. Raker wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "P.H. Raker" <n556p@yahoo.com> > >Hello, > Mac said that Matco recommends DOT-5 brake fluid. I've heard >others say that 5606 is the only thing to use, while others say to use >"Dexron" Automatic Transmission Fluid. The ATF is certainly the least >expensive and should be compatible with just about any hydraulic system >components. Can anyone think of a good reason NOT to use ATF? Has >anyone used it? > >Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 11:33:44 AM PST US
    From: "Jim Hoak" <planejim@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: Matco Brake Fluid
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" <planejim@bellsouth.net> Listers, FWIW, as long as whatever fliud used is compatable with the seals and metals in the system it should work. Some fluids attract moisture quicker than others. I would use what the manufacturer recommends. I've had 5606 in my 601HD for over 9 years. Jim Hoak 601HD 500.3 hrs do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leo Gates" <leogates@allvantage.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 2:03 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Matco Brake Fluid > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Leo Gates <leogates@allvantage.com> > > Dexron ATF has been in my Matco breaks for 2+ years now. 85+ flying > hours. Cheap, works, available any where, Why use anything else? > > Leo Gates > N601Z, CH601HDS, TDO > > P.H. Raker wrote: > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "P.H. Raker" <n556p@yahoo.com> >> >>Hello, >> Mac said that Matco recommends DOT-5 brake fluid. I've heard >>others say that 5606 is the only thing to use, while others say to use >>"Dexron" Automatic Transmission Fluid. The ATF is certainly the least >>expensive and should be compatible with just about any hydraulic system >>components. Can anyone think of a good reason NOT to use ATF? Has >>anyone used it? >> >>Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed >> >> > > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 11:50:16 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Matco Brake Fluid
    From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net> As I recall, all three of those are acceptable fluids. On the other hand, standard automotive brake fluid (DOT-3,-4) is not acceptable. Mil-H 5606 is probably the same stuff as ATF. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive. on 1/31/06 12:43 PM, P.H. Raker at n556p@yahoo.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "P.H. Raker" <n556p@yahoo.com> > > Hello, > Mac said that Matco recommends DOT-5 brake fluid. I've heard > others say that 5606 is the only thing to use, while others say to use > "Dexron" Automatic Transmission Fluid. The ATF is certainly the least > expensive and should be compatible with just about any hydraulic system > components. Can anyone think of a good reason NOT to use ATF? Has > anyone used it? > > Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed > >


    Message 8


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    Time: 12:35:34 PM PST US
    From: "neitzel" <n963wb@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: Matco Brake Fluid
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: "neitzel" <n963wb@frontiernet.net> Have used ATF in Matco brakes for two years now, no problems. Another benefit of ATF is it does not absorb moisture like regular brake fluid. Dick Neitzel Sayner, WI 701 Jabiru 2200


    Message 9


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    Time: 12:41:18 PM PST US
    From: "Tony Bonsell" <tbonsell@luxuria.com>
    Subject: Can you reweld a 701 cabin frame?
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tony Bonsell" <tbonsell@luxuria.com> Hi Guys! Still toiling away on the 701, and I've got some good momentum going. I'm currently joining the front and rear fuselage, very exciting, but I've hit a brick wall. I bought an old edition kit for the fuse because, well, I'm stupid and it was cheap. I ended up having to rebuy a lot of 4th edition parts from Zenith to keep it current. Looks like I may have to buy a new cabin frame now! Which sucks because I'm up here in Canuckistan and it will cost a fortune. It turns out they changed some of the angles between versions, by a couple of degrees on the front tubes. Enough to totally miss the firewall and the front horn of the cabin side. I got out the old plans, and it looks like I could save it if I could, um, "adjust" those angles. The lengths are all fine. I certainly wouldn't try to do it myself (chicken), but do you guys think it can be done without sacrificing strength? Would you cut through the weld on one side, bend a little and then reweld? Or would you just heat up the tube and bend? Or are you outraged at the very idea? ************************************************* Tony Bonsell (tbonsell@luxuria.com) CI-FKF Luxuria + Apparatus Design Communications 535 Cragg Road, RR #3 Uxbridge, Ontario L9P 1R3 Voice: 905.852.3848 http://www.luxuria.com *************************************************


    Message 10


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    Time: 01:44:32 PM PST US
    From: Rick R <rick@n701rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Matco Brake Fluid
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick R <rick@n701rr.com> This is copied from the Matco web site: " D. Inject brake fluid (Mil-H-5606) or equivalent, into the puck housing and continue injecting until the fluid travels through the system in to the master cylinder. " ACS has the Mil-H-5606. I'll be using that... Rick Orlando, FL. USA http://www.n701rr.com


    Message 11


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    Time: 01:53:58 PM PST US
    From: Keith Ashcraft <keith.ashcraft@itt.com>
    Subject: Re: Can you reweld a 701 cabin frame?
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Ashcraft <keith.ashcraft@itt.com> Hi Tony, You can heat and bend. Do so in small amounts. 4130 is fairly forgiving for heating and re-normalizing. Don't try to bend to much at one time, as the way it works is on the inside of the bend the metal is being compressed into colder metal and the outside of the bend, the hot is being streched. This is a technique used for bending the axles for my Sidewinder. Although, the axle is a solid bar of steel, the process works the same. Once again, 4130 was designed for torch welding, bending and shaping. Keith ************************************************************************** Tony Bonsell wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tony Bonsell" <tbonsell@luxuria.com> > >Hi Guys! > >Still toiling away on the 701, and I've got some good momentum going. I'm >currently joining the front and rear fuselage, very exciting, but I've hit a >brick wall. > >I bought an old edition kit for the fuse because, well, I'm stupid and it >was cheap. I ended up having to rebuy a lot of 4th edition parts from Zenith >to keep it current. Looks like I may have to buy a new cabin frame now! >Which sucks because I'm up here in Canuckistan and it will cost a fortune. > >It turns out they changed some of the angles between versions, by a couple >of degrees on the front tubes. Enough to totally miss the firewall and the >front horn of the cabin side. I got out the old plans, and it looks like I >could save it if I could, um, "adjust" those angles. The lengths are all >fine. > >I certainly wouldn't try to do it myself (chicken), but do you guys think it >can be done without sacrificing strength? Would you cut through the weld on >one side, bend a little and then reweld? Or would you just heat up the tube >and bend? Or are you outraged at the very idea? > >************************************************* >Tony Bonsell (tbonsell@luxuria.com) CI-FKF >Luxuria + Apparatus Design Communications >535 Cragg Road, RR #3 >Uxbridge, Ontario L9P 1R3 >Voice: 905.852.3848 >http://www.luxuria.com > >************************************************* > > > > > > > > > -- ************************************* *Keith Ashcraft* ITT Industries Advanced Engineering & Sciences 5009 Centennial Blvd. Colorado Springs, CO 80919 (719) 599-1787 -- work (719) 332-4364 -- cell keith.ashcraft@itt.com ************************************ This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Industries, Inc. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT Industries accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. ************************************


    Message 12


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    Time: 02:31:46 PM PST US
    From: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
    Subject: Re: Matco Brake Fluid
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org> Mil-H 5606 is NOT the same as ATF except in color. 5606 gets sticky ATF doesn't. Cy Galley - Chair, AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair A Service Project of Chapter 75 EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC EAA Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Martin" <bryanmmartin@comcast.net> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 1:48 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Matco Brake Fluid > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net> > > As I recall, all three of those are acceptable fluids. On the other hand, > standard automotive brake fluid (DOT-3,-4) is not acceptable. Mil-H 5606 > is > probably the same stuff as ATF. > > > -- > Bryan Martin > N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. > do not archive. > > > on 1/31/06 12:43 PM, P.H. Raker at n556p@yahoo.com wrote: > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "P.H. Raker" <n556p@yahoo.com> >> >> Hello, >> Mac said that Matco recommends DOT-5 brake fluid. I've heard >> others say that 5606 is the only thing to use, while others say to use >> "Dexron" Automatic Transmission Fluid. The ATF is certainly the least >> expensive and should be compatible with just about any hydraulic system >> components. Can anyone think of a good reason NOT to use ATF? Has >> anyone used it? >> >> Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed >> >> > > >


    Message 13


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    Time: 02:55:47 PM PST US
    Subject: Can you reweld a 701 cabin frame?
    From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com> I think Larry would add two further cautions... 1) Be careful not to kink the tube 2) Do not cool it too fast...Keep playing the flame over the heated area to cool slowly. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Keith Ashcraft Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 1:52 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Can you reweld a 701 cabin frame? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Ashcraft --> <keith.ashcraft@itt.com> Hi Tony, You can heat and bend. Do so in small amounts. 4130 is fairly forgiving for heating and re-normalizing. Don't try to bend to much at one time, as the way it works is on the inside of the bend the metal is being compressed into colder metal and the outside of the bend, the hot is being streched. This is a technique used for bending the axles for my Sidewinder. Although, the axle is a solid bar of steel, the process works the same. Once again, 4130 was designed for torch welding, bending and shaping. Keith ************************************************************************ ** Tony Bonsell wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tony Bonsell" >--> <tbonsell@luxuria.com> > >Hi Guys! > >Still toiling away on the 701, and I've got some good momentum going. >I'm currently joining the front and rear fuselage, very exciting, but >I've hit a brick wall. > >I bought an old edition kit for the fuse because, well, I'm stupid and >it was cheap. I ended up having to rebuy a lot of 4th edition parts >from Zenith to keep it current. Looks like I may have to buy a new cabin frame now! >Which sucks because I'm up here in Canuckistan and it will cost a fortune. > >It turns out they changed some of the angles between versions, by a >couple of degrees on the front tubes. Enough to totally miss the >firewall and the front horn of the cabin side. I got out the old plans, >and it looks like I could save it if I could, um, "adjust" those >angles. The lengths are all fine. > >I certainly wouldn't try to do it myself (chicken), but do you guys >think it can be done without sacrificing strength? Would you cut >through the weld on one side, bend a little and then reweld? Or would >you just heat up the tube and bend? Or are you outraged at the very idea? > >************************************************* >Tony Bonsell (tbonsell@luxuria.com) CI-FKF Luxuria + Apparatus Design >Communications >535 Cragg Road, RR #3 >Uxbridge, Ontario L9P 1R3 >Voice: 905.852.3848 >http://www.luxuria.com > >************************************************* > > > > > > > > > -- ************************************* *Keith Ashcraft* ITT Industries Advanced Engineering & Sciences 5009 Centennial Blvd. Colorado Springs, CO 80919 (719) 599-1787 -- work (719) 332-4364 -- cell keith.ashcraft@itt.com ************************************ This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Industries, Inc. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT Industries accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. ************************************


    Message 14


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    Time: 05:07:39 PM PST US
    From: Keith Ashcraft <keith.ashcraft@itt.com>
    Subject: Re: Can you reweld a 701 cabin frame?
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Ashcraft <keith.ashcraft@itt.com> Well put!!! Keith (still pounding those little 3mm flanges on those little things call flaperon and slat ribs!! Of course, in the Snow) Alt. 9,100' *************************************************** Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com> > >I think Larry would add two further cautions... > >1) Be careful not to kink the tube >2) Do not cool it too fast...Keep playing the flame over the heated area >to cool slowly. > >Frank > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Keith >Ashcraft >Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 1:52 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Can you reweld a 701 cabin frame? > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Ashcraft >--> <keith.ashcraft@itt.com> > >Hi Tony, >You can heat and bend. Do so in small amounts. 4130 is fairly forgiving >for heating and re-normalizing. Don't try to bend to much at one time, >as the way it works is on the inside of the bend the metal is being >compressed into colder metal and the outside of the bend, the hot is >being streched. This is a technique used for bending the axles for my >Sidewinder. Although, the axle is a solid bar of steel, the process >works the same. Once again, 4130 was designed for torch welding, bending >and shaping. > >Keith >************************************************************************ >** > >Tony Bonsell wrote: > > > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tony Bonsell" >>--> <tbonsell@luxuria.com> >> >>Hi Guys! >> >>Still toiling away on the 701, and I've got some good momentum going. >>I'm currently joining the front and rear fuselage, very exciting, but >>I've hit a brick wall. >> >>I bought an old edition kit for the fuse because, well, I'm stupid and >>it was cheap. I ended up having to rebuy a lot of 4th edition parts >> >> >>from Zenith to keep it current. Looks like I may have to buy a new >cabin frame now! > > >>Which sucks because I'm up here in Canuckistan and it will cost a >> >> >fortune. > > >>It turns out they changed some of the angles between versions, by a >>couple of degrees on the front tubes. Enough to totally miss the >>firewall and the front horn of the cabin side. I got out the old plans, >> >> > > > >>and it looks like I could save it if I could, um, "adjust" those >>angles. The lengths are all fine. >> >>I certainly wouldn't try to do it myself (chicken), but do you guys >>think it can be done without sacrificing strength? Would you cut >>through the weld on one side, bend a little and then reweld? Or would >>you just heat up the tube and bend? Or are you outraged at the very >> >> >idea? > > >>************************************************* >>Tony Bonsell (tbonsell@luxuria.com) CI-FKF Luxuria + Apparatus Design >>Communications >>535 Cragg Road, RR #3 >>Uxbridge, Ontario L9P 1R3 >>Voice: 905.852.3848 >>http://www.luxuria.com >> >>************************************************* >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- ************************************* *Keith Ashcraft* ITT Industries Advanced Engineering & Sciences 5009 Centennial Blvd. Colorado Springs, CO 80919 (719) 599-1787 -- work (719) 332-4364 -- cell keith.ashcraft@itt.com ************************************ This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Industries, Inc. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT Industries accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. ************************************


    Message 15


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    Time: 11:58:01 PM PST US
    Subject: Can you reweld a 701 cabin frame?
    From: Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com
    --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com > I certainly wouldn't try to do it myself (chicken), but do you guys think it > can be done without sacrificing strength? Would you cut through the weld on > one side, bend a little and then reweld? Or would you just heat up the tube > and bend? Or are you outraged at the very idea? Do NOT cut it "a little"! Cut it TOTALLY and reweld it to a new angle! Do NOT heat tubes and bend them either! You can use Dremell with cutting disc etc... ------------------------------------------- Jari Kaija Electronic Designer PKC Group Oyj Vihikari 10 FIN-90440 KEMPELE FINLAND Mobile: +358 (0)40 5200265 Phone: +358 (0)201 752252 TeleFax: +358 (0)201 752401 jari.kaija@pkcgroup.com http://www.pkcgroup.com http://www.project-ch701.net -------------------------------------------




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