Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:18 AM - Vs: Re: Can you reweld a 701 cabin frame? (Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com)
2. 07:35 AM - Re: Vs: Can you reweld a 701 cabin frame? (Larry McFarland)
3. 08:53 AM - Re: Can you reweld a 701 cabin frame? (Craig Moore)
4. 08:54 AM - Re: Vs: Can you reweld a 701 cabin frame? (Lee Ross)
5. 10:53 AM - Re: Kitplanes Magazine Request: Hazard Avoidance Avionics Installations ()
6. 11:20 AM - Re: Kitplanes Magazine Request: Hazard Avoidance Avionics Installations (Cory Emberson)
7. 11:48 AM - Corrosion Prevention: Alodine and Zinc Chromate (Dan Morehouse)
8. 11:48 AM - Re: Re: Can you reweld a 701 cabin frame? (Gary Gower)
9. 12:05 PM - Re: Kitplanes Magazine Request: Hazard Avoidance Avionics Installations. (Gary Gower)
10. 01:32 PM - Re: Vs: Re: Can you reweld a 701 cabin frame? (Keith Ashcraft)
11. 02:10 PM - Re: Corrosion Prevention: Alodine and Zinc Chromate (lynn dingfelder)
12. 02:24 PM - Batteries (Beckman, Rick)
13. 03:41 PM - Re: Corrosion Prevention: Alodine and Zinc Chromate (Dan Morehouse)
14. 03:41 PM - Re: Matco Brake Fluid (Bill Morelli)
15. 08:42 PM - Re: Corrosion Prevention: Alodine and Zinc Chromate (Bob Unternaehrer)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Can you reweld a 701 cabin frame? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com
>You can heat and bend. Do so in small amounts. 4130 is fairly forgiving
REALLY! Never thought thing called "torsion"?
> works the same. Once again, 4130 was designed for torch welding, bending
> and shaping.
Yes. But NOT in the plane, where all structures are designed
to be straight!
-------------------------------------------
Jari Kaija
http://www.project-ch701.net
-------------------------------------------
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Can you reweld a 701 cabin frame? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Jari,
If it were neccessary to cut a structural tube to obtain a bend, the
strength could only be recovered by
welding a splice, gusset, strap or sleeve section across the cut. It'd
be better to consider the tubes bent
strength and its effect on joining structure. Think about what you need
to accomplish before you move on this one.
Larry McFarland
do not archive
Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com
>
>
>
>>I certainly wouldn't try to do it myself (chicken), but do you guys think
>>
>>
>it
>
>
>>can be done without sacrificing strength? Would you cut through the weld
>>
>>
>on
>
>
>>one side, bend a little and then reweld? Or would you just heat up the
>>
>>
>tube
>
>
>>and bend? Or are you outraged at the very idea?
>>
>>
>
> Do NOT cut it "a little"! Cut it TOTALLY and reweld it to a new
>angle! Do NOT heat tubes and bend them either!
>
>You can use Dremell with cutting disc etc...
>
>
>-------------------------------------------
>Jari Kaija
>Electronic Designer
>PKC Group Oyj
>Vihikari 10
>FIN-90440 KEMPELE
>FINLAND
>Mobile: +358 (0)40 5200265
>Phone: +358 (0)201 752252
>TeleFax: +358 (0)201 752401
>jari.kaija@pkcgroup.com
>http://www.pkcgroup.com
>http://www.project-ch701.net
>-------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Can you reweld a 701 cabin frame? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Moore <moorecomp@yahoo.com>
All,
Wouldn't this be best answered by asking CH himself?
Obviously, some feel it would be ok to bend it, some
feel it is ok to cut it. I would want the final word
to come from ZAC.
Craig Moore
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Can you reweld a 701 cabin frame? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lee Ross" <lross@cngmail.com>
Im a nobody and know nothing about building an airplane but ive see the top
2 lord mounts break on an ag-cat right when it was pulling up for a spraying
run, it was not a pretty wreck. seems like the last place you would want to
weaken an aircraft is right where the big heavy vibrating spinning parts
attach to the part that your ass will be sitting in. but hey what the hell
do i know
Lee
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: Vs: Zenith-List: Can you reweld a 701 cabin frame?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> Jari,
> If it were neccessary to cut a structural tube to obtain a bend, the
> strength could only be recovered by
> welding a splice, gusset, strap or sleeve section across the cut. It'd
> be better to consider the tubes bent
> strength and its effect on joining structure. Think about what you need
> to accomplish before you move on this one.
>
> Larry McFarland
> do not archive
>
> Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com wrote:
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com
>>
>>
>>
>>>I certainly wouldn't try to do it myself (chicken), but do you guys think
>>>
>>>
>>it
>>
>>
>>>can be done without sacrificing strength? Would you cut through the weld
>>>
>>>
>>on
>>
>>
>>>one side, bend a little and then reweld? Or would you just heat up the
>>>
>>>
>>tube
>>
>>
>>>and bend? Or are you outraged at the very idea?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Do NOT cut it "a little"! Cut it TOTALLY and reweld it to a new
>>angle! Do NOT heat tubes and bend them either!
>>
>>You can use Dremell with cutting disc etc...
>>
>>
>>-------------------------------------------
>>Jari Kaija
>>Electronic Designer
>>PKC Group Oyj
>>Vihikari 10
>>FIN-90440 KEMPELE
>>FINLAND
>>Mobile: +358 (0)40 5200265
>>Phone: +358 (0)201 752252
>>TeleFax: +358 (0)201 752401
>>jari.kaija@pkcgroup.com
>>http://www.pkcgroup.com
>>http://www.project-ch701.net
>>-------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Kitplanes Magazine Request: Hazard Avoidance Avionics |
Installations
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
I understand eyeballs are pretty good. They're portable, too.
(sorry, couldn't resist!)
Paul Rodriguez
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: Cory Emberson<mailto:bootless@earthlink.net>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 12:47 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Kitplanes Magazine Request: Hazard Avoidance Avionics Installations
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cory Emberson" <bootless@earthlink.net<mailto:bootless@earthlink.net>>
Hello all,
I'm working on an article for Kitplanes Magazine about the various products
for hazard avoidance (traffic, terrain and weather), and would like to hear
from anyone who's had this gear installed in their aircraft. In particular,
I'd like to hear your experiences in what you learned in the process, what
you wish you had known at the outset, how your experiences with the gear has
been and whether it's met your expectations. I would like to focus on the
products that are not dug-in certified gear, but rather designed and
engineered for experimental aircraft.
In addition, I would like to talk to a few avionics shops who have some
solid experience in these installations in experiementals. If you have a
shop that you felt did a good job, I would love to hear from you.
For the sake of the list traffic, I may be contacted off-list at (de-spammed
email to follow):
Coryemberson (at) earthlink (dot) net
Thanks very much!
Cory Emberson
Contributing Editor
Kitplanes Magazine
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Kitplanes Magazine Request: Hazard Avoidance Avionics |
Installations
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Cory Emberson <bootless@earthlink.net>
<grin> They're on my MEL, too.
Do Not Archive
PAULROD36@msn.com wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
>
>I understand eyeballs are pretty good. They're portable, too.
>(sorry, couldn't resist!)
>Paul Rodriguez
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Corrosion Prevention: Alodine and Zinc Chromate |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Dan Morehouse <messydeer@yahoo.com>
Hi!
I've got seveal sheets of 6061. Some areas of most all the sheets got corroded
from sitting stacked in the rain for the last several months. A great experiment,
but I wish I wouldn't have done it with ALL the sheets. Just about ready
to start bending metal. So I'm planning on getting some aluminum cleaner/etcher
w/ phosphoric acid to clean them up. Prolly start with a manual scotchbrite
(green) and the cleaner. Any residual left I'd take off with a Blendex drum and
my angle grinder.
Plan on treating all parts with Alodine, the gold kind. Larger parts I'll prolly
brush on and may treat only the inside of the skins, leaving the outside to
polish or paint. Faying surfaces I plan paint with zinc chromate. All other
inside areas I may hit with a spray of zinc chromate, CorrosionX, or something
like that. It would be nice to do this at the time of assembly, but could be
done later.
Could you refer me to some good sources for concentrated Alodine (Irridite?)?
Let me know what you think of this plan. Oh! I live in Bellingham, WA. We've
only had .3" of rain this month, but it rained 8" last month. Just north of Seattle.
Plane will be tied down outside, most likely.
Cheers,
Dan Morehouse
---------------------------------
Bring words and photos together (easily) with
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Can you reweld a 701 cabin frame? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
To this kit owner:
From previous post, I remember that you bought the KIT second hand,
No problem contacting ZAC, What you need to do is to change the name of the
owner in the serial number data they have. Ask them for all things: The welds,
advise over important mods needed since your kit and how to change the owners
name.
What ever: Safety first, Hope everything comes OK with your kit,,, As we
say here, "Sometimes buying cheap, ends more expensive".
Saludos
Gary Gower
Craig Moore <moorecomp@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Moore
All,
Wouldn't this be best answered by asking CH himself?
Obviously, some feel it would be ok to bend it, some
feel it is ok to cut it. I would want the final word
to come from ZAC.
Craig Moore
---------------------------------
Bring words and photos together (easily) with
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Kitplanes Magazine Request: Hazard Avoidance Avionics |
Installations.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Not that bad Paul, our Instructor here always insists: "The most important instrument
is the Windshield"
Hello Cory, hope you get enough info and will be looking for the article in Kitplanes.
The only instruments I have in my 701 (aside the "normal" ones), is a Lift Reserve
Indicator, a Wing Leveler Autopilot. and a GPS This, I think will help
me in case of suden bad weather to make a safe 180 to land, and find even a
short strip while weather clears... Here weather can (and does) change in a
few minutes.
No plans or hurry to get into weather while flying for pleassure.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
PAULROD36@msn.com wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by:
I understand eyeballs are pretty good. They're portable, too.
(sorry, couldn't resist!)
Paul Rodriguez
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: Cory Emberson
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 12:47 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Kitplanes Magazine Request: Hazard Avoidance Avionics Installations
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cory Emberson" >
Hello all,
I'm working on an article for Kitplanes Magazine about the various products
for hazard avoidance (traffic, terrain and weather), and would like to hear
from anyone who's had this gear installed in their aircraft. In particular,
I'd like to hear your experiences in what you learned in the process, what
you wish you had known at the outset, how your experiences with the gear has
been and whether it's met your expectations. I would like to focus on the
products that are not dug-in certified gear, but rather designed and
engineered for experimental aircraft.
In addition, I would like to talk to a few avionics shops who have some
solid experience in these installations in experiementals. If you have a
shop that you felt did a good job, I would love to hear from you.
For the sake of the list traffic, I may be contacted off-list at (de-spammed
email to follow):
Coryemberson (at) earthlink (dot) net
Thanks very much!
Cory Emberson
Contributing Editor
Kitplanes Magazine
---------------------------------
Bring words and photos together (easily) with
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Can you reweld a 701 cabin frame? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Ashcraft <keith.ashcraft@itt.com>
Jari,
That is correct, but normailizing takes out the torsion tension. Look at
a Bearhawk, 95% of the 4130 tubing is bent. There is hardly any straight
pieces, (mostly the longerons) Another example, look at the EXEC
Helicopter, bent and formed 4130 tubing, all structural pieces to mount
the skids-engine-rotor-hub!!!
Keith
************************************************************
Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com
>
>
>
>
>>You can heat and bend. Do so in small amounts. 4130 is fairly forgiving
>>
>>
>
> REALLY! Never thought thing called "torsion"?
>
>
>
>>works the same. Once again, 4130 was designed for torch welding, bending
>>and shaping.
>>
>>
>
> Yes. But NOT in the plane, where all structures are designed
> to be straight!
>
>-------------------------------------------
>Jari Kaija
>http://www.project-ch701.net
>-------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
*************************************
*Keith Ashcraft*
ITT Industries
Advanced Engineering & Sciences
5009 Centennial Blvd.
Colorado Springs, CO
80919
(719) 599-1787 -- work
(719) 332-4364 -- cell
keith.ashcraft@itt.com
************************************
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Prevention: Alodine and Zinc Chromate |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "lynn dingfelder" <ding@tbscc.com>
Dan,
I recently researched the market for a source for these products,
and the winning vendor was Aircraft Spruce. They didn't charge $20 per jug
hazardous shipping, as some others wanted to, but $20 per order. Huge
difference. I wasn't able to find a cheaper source.
Lynn
Corry, PA
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick" <Rick.Beckman@atk.com>
Hi,All
Would some of you Zodie XL fliers mind telling me which starter battery you are
using? I cannot recall a solid answer on this. I'll take the answers and compare
batteries to my needs (and size! ). Thanks ahead of time!!
Rick
Midwest Mudworks
729 MSL and sinking
Zodie XL 52EB (res.)
Do NOT archive...
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Prevention: Alodine and Zinc Chromate |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Dan Morehouse <messydeer@yahoo.com>
Thanks, Lynn.
They're close to the bottom of the price list all right. I think they're around
$17 per gallon before shipping. I asked them 2 days ago for a shipping w/ hazmat
quote. They acknowledged they're working on that. Still no word, which sounds
like Spruce. In my short experience Wicks is MUCH better organized if a
little higher on most products. But they want something like $20 hazmat fee ontop
of a higher than Spruce price.
After calling around town, I found Alumiprep and Alodine for ~$20/gal each. Not
a huge difference and no fees, except tax.
Cheers,
Dan
lynn dingfelder <ding@tbscc.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "lynn dingfelder"
Dan,
I recently researched the market for a source for these products,
and the winning vendor was Aircraft Spruce. They didn't charge $20 per jug
hazardous shipping, as some others wanted to, but $20 per order. Huge
difference. I wasn't able to find a cheaper source.
Lynn
Corry, PA
---------------------------------
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Matco Brake Fluid |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Morelli" <billvt@together.net>
I've had Dexron ATF fluid in my Matco brakes for 5 years and 441 fligth hours with
no problems. I've made 558 landings and have stopped every time!!
Bill
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Prevention: Alodine and Zinc Chromate |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
Cory, Have you tried your local automotive paint stores. Here in the
Midwest the PPG and Dupont stores all have Alodine and Zinc Chromate or
epoxy primer. Auto parts stores who mix paint's like O'Reiley's again in
the Midwest have it where you can walk in and pick it up with out hazardous
fees. bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: "lynn dingfelder" <ding@tbscc.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Corrosion Prevention: Alodine and Zinc Chromate
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lynn dingfelder" <ding@tbscc.com>
>
> Dan,
> I recently researched the market for a source for these products,
> and the winning vendor was Aircraft Spruce. They didn't charge $20 per jug
> hazardous shipping, as some others wanted to, but $20 per order. Huge
> difference. I wasn't able to find a cheaper source.
> Lynn
> Corry, PA
>
>
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