---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 02/02/06: 32 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:36 AM - Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines (dralle@matronics.com) 2. 03:54 AM - Re: XL flap speed (David X) 3. 03:54 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Engine List (David X) 4. 05:30 AM - Re: Batteries (N5SL) 5. 06:02 AM - Re: Corrosion Prevention: Alodine and Zinc Chromate (ROBERT SCEPPA) 6. 06:56 AM - Re: Batteries (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 7. 07:02 AM - Re: Batteries (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 8. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: Batteries () 9. 10:52 AM - Looking for a 601 (Joe Scheibinger) 10. 11:04 AM - Re: Re: Batteries (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 11. 11:18 AM - Re: Looking for a 601 (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 12. 11:29 AM - Re: Looking for a 601 (jim) 13. 12:09 PM - Re: Looking for a 601 (Royer, Michel) 14. 01:22 PM - Batteries.... (Beckman, Rick) 15. 02:31 PM - wing kit? (Stephen R. Look) 16. 02:58 PM - Re: Looking for a 601 (george may) 17. 03:18 PM - Re: wing kit? (Larry McFarland) 18. 03:36 PM - Re: wing kit? (Zodie Rocket) 19. 04:05 PM - Re: wing kit? (Leo Gates) 20. 05:23 PM - Re: wing kit? (Dave Austin) 21. 06:53 PM - ZAC Pneumatic Riveter - Questions (Dave VanLanen) 22. 07:10 PM - Re: Corrosion Prevention: Alodine and Zinc Chromate (Keith Norton) 23. 07:11 PM - Official Zenith-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) (Matt Dralle) 24. 07:24 PM - Re: Looking for a 601 (Jim Pellien) 25. 08:14 PM - Re: ZAC Pneumatic Riveter - Questions (Rory Davis) 26. 08:14 PM - Re: ZAC Pneumatic Riveter - Questions (David Plozay) 27. 08:23 PM - Re: wing kit? (Paul Mulwitz) 28. 08:33 PM - Re: Discolored fuel (David X) 29. 08:41 PM - Re: wing kit? (David X) 30. 09:57 PM - Re: Weld Repair to steel tube frame... (E&M Bima) 31. 10:16 PM - Re: ZAC Pneumatic Riveter - Questions () 32. 11:00 PM - Re: wing kit?. (Gary Gower) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:36:39 AM PST US From: dralle@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines --> Zenith-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com Dear Listers, Please read over the Zenith-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Zenith-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Zenith-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Zenith-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:58 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: XL flap speed From: "David X" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" 30 degrees, 6 seconds -------- do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=8926#8926 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:58 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rotax 912 Engine List From: "David X" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" I was sceptical when I first flew a Rotax, but after about 100 hours, I love the engine. It's very light, lot's of torque, quiet and smooth. There's a new list here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=62 -------- do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=8928#8928 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:30:28 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Batteries --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Rick: Odyssey PC680 for me. http://www.cooknwithgas.com/10_15_05_Battery_Box3.JPG If you buy the "PC680-MJ" you get a metal jacket that can be removed and lightened and used as a battery-box. Specs are: * 680 cranking amps for 5 seconds * 595 cranking amps for 10 seconds * 525 cranking amps for 20 seconds * 17 amp hours * Short circuit current over 1800A * 25 minute reserve capacity with 25amp load * Female brass terminal w/M6 SS bolt * Length 7 1/16" * Width 2 15/16" * Height 6 9/16" * Weighs less than 14.5 lbs I like it because it's skinney so it fits against the firewall nicely. More details: * 2 year full warranty * Rugged Drycell sealed design * Military grade * Vibration resistant * 60% more starting power * Deep discharge reserve power * 2 year storage life * 8-12 year design life * Can be mounted flat or upright Scott Laughlin http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ --- "Beckman, Rick" wrote: > Hi,All > Would some of you Zodie XL fliers mind telling me > which starter battery you are using? ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:18 AM PST US From: ROBERT SCEPPA Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Corrosion Prevention: Alodine and Zinc Chromate --> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA > I am also in a group building a Glastar and we had > just purchsed a gallon of etch and Alodine, > purchased locally and it cost double the price. We > paid $40 a gallon for each. Guess we should have > ordered it from AC Spruce. thanks Lynn --- lynn dingfelder wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lynn dingfelder" > > > Dan, > I recently researched the market for a > source for these products, > and the winning vendor was Aircraft Spruce. They > didn't charge $20 per jug > hazardous shipping, as some others wanted to, but > $20 per order. Huge > difference. I wasn't able to find a cheaper source. > > Lynn > > Corry, PA > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:12 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Batteries From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" I have an HDS and I use the helious 17AH model...For the backup I use the 3Ah...Cheap sealed lead acid technology. I usually change them every two years or so. My starter battery is behind the seat with a #6 cable to start the Subaru engine. Never had a problem cranking even I cold weather. Frank HDS 380 hours Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Beckman, Rick Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 1:52 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Batteries --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick" --> Hi,All Would some of you Zodie XL fliers mind telling me which starter battery you are using? I cannot recall a solid answer on this. I'll take the answers and compare batteries to my needs (and size! ). Thanks ahead of time!! Rick Midwest Mudworks 729 MSL and sinking Zodie XL 52EB (res.) Do NOT archive... ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:47 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Batteries From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Of course each to his own and if you like this battery that's just peachy...BUT....I think its overkill for a zodiac unless maybe you are running a high compression big bore Lycoming or something. I am using the Odyssey in a fuel injected IO360...I.e it's a huge motor that I know takes a lot of cranking. The Helious batteries are less than half the cost and about the same size or smaller as far as I rememeber. Check out www.batteries.com Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N5SL Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 5:25 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Batteries --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Rick: Odyssey PC680 for me. http://www.cooknwithgas.com/10_15_05_Battery_Box3.JPG If you buy the "PC680-MJ" you get a metal jacket that can be removed and lightened and used as a battery-box. Specs are: * 680 cranking amps for 5 seconds * 595 cranking amps for 10 seconds * 525 cranking amps for 20 seconds * 17 amp hours * Short circuit current over 1800A * 25 minute reserve capacity with 25amp load * Female brass terminal w/M6 SS bolt * Length 7 1/16" * Width 2 15/16" * Height 6 9/16" * Weighs less than 14.5 lbs I like it because it's skinney so it fits against the firewall nicely. More details: * 2 year full warranty * Rugged Drycell sealed design * Military grade * Vibration resistant * 60% more starting power * Deep discharge reserve power * 2 year storage life * 8-12 year design life * Can be mounted flat or upright Scott Laughlin http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ --- "Beckman, Rick" wrote: > Hi,All > Would some of you Zodie XL fliers mind telling me which starter > battery you are using? ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:43:43 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: RE: Zenith-List: Batteries --> Zenith-List message posted by: Those who use the Jabiru 3300 have to spin the engine @ 300 rpm or so to get ignition on start up. If it is cold and the battery has been heavily used (landing lights, flap motor etc.) on the last landing and the carb bowl is dry, you are likely to need the overkill of the battery. This wisdom has been repeated many times on this list and others and it comes from those who have applicable experience. Ed > > From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Batteries BUT....I think its overkill for a zodiac unless maybe you are > running a high compression big bore Lycoming or something. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:52:40 AM PST US From: "Joe Scheibinger" Subject: Zenith-List: Looking for a 601 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Joe Scheibinger" Friends, If there is anyone that would like to sell their 601XL or HD project, please call me on the toll free number below. I also have a friend in the Indiana area that is looking for a 701 kit for sale. Thanks. 800-416-8360 ext. 217 after 11:00 AM Central Time 920-237-1450 after 6:00 PM Central Time Al ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:03 AM PST US Subject: RE: RE: Zenith-List: Batteries From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" The Subaru with TP45 igntions has to be spun pretty quickly to start too but works quite well on the cheaper battery. As I do not rely on a mechanical fuel pump (twin) electric I probably do not have to spin is for so long as the Jab engine however. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dredmoody@cox.net Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 9:39 AM Subject: Re: RE: Zenith-List: Batteries --> Zenith-List message posted by: Those who use the Jabiru 3300 have to spin the engine @ 300 rpm or so to get ignition on start up. If it is cold and the battery has been heavily used (landing lights, flap motor etc.) on the last landing and the carb bowl is dry, you are likely to need the overkill of the battery. This wisdom has been repeated many times on this list and others and it comes from those who have applicable experience. Ed > > From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: > Batteries BUT....I think its overkill for a zodiac unless maybe you are > running a high compression big bore Lycoming or something. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:18:32 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Looking for a 601 From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" I got a flying HDS for sale...in the next couple of months Frank HDS well sorted Stratus 380 hours -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joe Scheibinger Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:43 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Looking for a 601 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Joe Scheibinger" Friends, If there is anyone that would like to sell their 601XL or HD project, please call me on the toll free number below. I also have a friend in the Indiana area that is looking for a 701 kit for sale. Thanks. 800-416-8360 ext. 217 after 11:00 AM Central Time 920-237-1450 after 6:00 PM Central Time Al ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:29:21 AM PST US From: "jim" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Looking for a 601 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jim" Joe, I have a used factory-built 601XL ELSA available for sale with less than 180 hours. Only $69K with radios, transponder, leather, wing lockers and other extras. A savings of $14K over a new ELSA. Also this particular ELSA can be used for commercial flight training. www.MASPL.com for more info. Jim Pellien Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes www.MASPL.com 703-313-4818 jim@sportsplanes.com ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Joe Scheibinger" >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Joe Scheibinger" > >Friends, > >If there is anyone that would like to sell their 601XL or HD project, please >call me on the toll free number below. I also have a friend in the Indiana >area that is looking for a 701 kit for sale. Thanks. > >800-416-8360 ext. 217 after 11:00 AM Central Time >920-237-1450 after 6:00 PM Central Time > >Al > > > > > > > Sent via the WebMail system at mail.pellien.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:09:22 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Looking for a 601 From: "Royer, Michel" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Royer, Michel" Joe....I still have the 601Hds but never got a definite answer from you last time so I thought that you had abandonned the idea.. > Michel Royer -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Joe Scheibinger Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 1:43 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Looking for a 601 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Joe Scheibinger" Friends, If there is anyone that would like to sell their 601XL or HD project, please call me on the toll free number below. I also have a friend in the Indiana area that is looking for a 701 kit for sale. Thanks. 800-416-8360 ext. 217 after 11:00 AM Central Time 920-237-1450 after 6:00 PM Central Time Al ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:22:47 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Batteries.... From: "Beckman, Rick" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick" =09 I just want say a quick " Thank You! " to all those that responded to my battery question on and off list!! You helped this old Stuck In The Mud a LOT!! Thanks, again! Rick Do NOT archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:31:15 PM PST US From: "Stephen R. Look" Subject: Zenith-List: wing kit? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen R. Look" Howdy All, I'm nearing the end of my tail kit and thinking about ordering my wings. I'm looking for opinions about getting the aileron trim tab option. How worthwhile is this? I don't know that I've even flown anything with aileron trim.... It wouldn't hurt to save that money for something else. Steve Steve Look Monticello, IL 601XL - tail kit "Dogs have owners, Cats have staff" ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:58:10 PM PST US From: "george may" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Looking for a 601 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" Jim-- Does this mean no more training in the 601? George May 601XL 912s do not archive >From: "jim" >To: >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Looking for a 601 >Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 14:27:41 -0500 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jim" > >Joe, > >I have a used factory-built 601XL ELSA available for sale with less than >180 hours. Only $69K with radios, transponder, leather, wing lockers and >other extras. A savings of $14K over a new ELSA. Also this particular >ELSA can be used for commercial flight training. > >www.MASPL.com for more info. > >Jim Pellien >Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes >www.MASPL.com >703-313-4818 >jim@sportsplanes.com > > >---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- >From: "Joe Scheibinger" >Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 12:43:02 -0600 > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Joe Scheibinger" > > > >Friends, > > > >If there is anyone that would like to sell their 601XL or HD project, >please > >call me on the toll free number below. I also have a friend in the >Indiana > >area that is looking for a 701 kit for sale. Thanks. > > > >800-416-8360 ext. 217 after 11:00 AM Central Time > >920-237-1450 after 6:00 PM Central Time > > > >Al > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Sent via the WebMail system at mail.pellien.com > > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:18:16 PM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: wing kit? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Steven, The trim tab seems a bit much initially, but when you fly a plane that has a shorter span and loading becomes one sided or your trim isn't exactly where it should be to begin with, the tab could be a worth while item. My HDS with 23-foot span is very responsive to inputs and loading and the tab does take the pressure off when I'm transferring fuel or carrying someone that's 225. I think you'll find the XL just as sensitive and is a better value with the tab when you decide to sell. Also there's the influx of cheaper autopilot controls that would be helped by having electric trim tabs. Much easier to install before than later. I'd recommend you go for it. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive Stephen R. Look wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen R. Look" > >Howdy All, > >I'm nearing the end of my tail kit and thinking about ordering my >wings. I'm looking for opinions about getting the aileron trim tab >option. How worthwhile is this? I don't know that I've even flown >anything with aileron trim.... It wouldn't hurt to save that money >for something else. > >Steve > > >Steve Look >Monticello, IL >601XL - tail kit >"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff" > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:36:05 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: wing kit? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" Keep the aileron trim, it's the wing lockers that would be the optional choice in my opinion. But I'm rather heavy set and running the 4 gas tanks so I couldn't imagine not having the aileron trim. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stephen R. Look Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 5:09 PM Subject: Zenith-List: wing kit? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen R. Look" Howdy All, I'm nearing the end of my tail kit and thinking about ordering my wings. I'm looking for opinions about getting the aileron trim tab option. How worthwhile is this? I don't know that I've even flown anything with aileron trim.... It wouldn't hurt to save that money for something else. Steve Steve Look Monticello, IL 601XL - tail kit "Dogs have owners, Cats have staff" -- -- ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:05:38 PM PST US From: "Leo Gates" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: wing kit? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo Gates" Amen to Larry's comments. I couldn't say it better. Leo Gates N601Z -------Original Message------- From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: wing kit? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Steven, The trim tab seems a bit much initially, but when you fly a plane that has a shorter span and loading becomes one sided or your trim isn't exactly where it should be to begin with, the tab could be a worth while item. My HDS with 23-foot span is very responsive to inputs and loading and the tab does take the pressure off when I'm transferring fuel or carrying someone that's 225. I think you'll find the XL just as sensitive and is a better value with the tab when you decide to sell. Also there's the influx of cheaper autopilot controls that would be helped by having electric trim tabs. Much easier to install before than later. I'd recommend you go for it. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive Stephen R. Look wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen R. Look" > >Howdy All, > >I'm nearing the end of my tail kit and thinking about ordering my >wings. I'm looking for opinions about getting the aileron trim tab >option. How worthwhile is this? I don't know that I've even flown >anything with aileron trim.... It wouldn't hurt to save that money >for something else. > >Steve > > >Steve Look >Monticello, IL >601XL - tail kit >"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff" > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:23:21 PM PST US From: "Dave Austin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: wing kit? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" Buy the aileron trim. You will not regret it. Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:52 PM PST US From: "Dave VanLanen" Subject: Zenith-List: ZAC Pneumatic Riveter - Questions --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" I purchased the ZAC pneumatic riveter with my kit, and I am setting it up for use. It did not come with much for instructions, so I have these questions: 1. The instructions suggest that I not install a hose coupler on the riveter itself (i.e. into the regulator supplied with the riveter), due to adding bulk, putting an unnecessary strain on the inlet threads, etc. Instead, they suggest using a leader (whip) hose. Is this necessary? I thought the riveter we used at the workshop had a coupling directly on the riveter regulator. 2. Next to the air inlet, it says "Oil" with an arrow pointing to the inlet. No other instructions. What type of oil do I use? How much? How frequently? 3. If I use a leader hose, can I oil the tool through the end of the hose? If not, I'd have to take the hose off each time. If I oil through the hose end, will it even get to the tool, or will it be absorbed into the hose? 4. The instructions say I need a compressor with at least 1 HP and 12 gallon capacity. I have a 4 HP compressor with an 11 gallon capacity, developing 7.6 CFI at 40 PSI and 5.1 CFI at 90 PSI. Is this big enough? Thanks, Dave Van Lanen Madison, WI 601XL ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:25 PM PST US From: Keith Norton Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Corrosion Prevention: Alodine and Zinc Chromate --> Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Norton --> Zenith-List message posted by: Dan Morehouse >Any residual left I'd take off with a Blendex drum and my angle grinder. Be very careful using any power tools to remove corrosion. It is very easy to remove too much material. The FAA allows 10% on certified aircraft but I'm not sure what ZAC allows. Most of the sheetmetal on these planes is very thin in the first place. Another problem with using power tools this way is the possibility of heating the metal and changing its strength. Good luck with it. Keith Norton A&P Zenith 701 - Tail completed Cessna 170A - Major sheetmetal project due to corrosion ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:28 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Zenith-List: Official Zenith-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, Please read over the Zenith-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete Zenith-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. 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Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Zenith-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Zenith-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:44 PM PST US From: "Jim Pellien" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Looking for a 601 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Pellien" George, not sure what you are asking???? The used ELSA that I am selling can be used for training until 2010. My SLSA 601XL is also being used weekly in our 1-week flight school. Does this answer your question? Jim Jim Pellien Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com www.MASPL.com 703-313-4818 -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of george may Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 5:57 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Looking for a 601 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" Jim-- Does this mean no more training in the 601? George May 601XL 912s do not archive >From: "jim" >To: >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Looking for a 601 >Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 14:27:41 -0500 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jim" > >Joe, > >I have a used factory-built 601XL ELSA available for sale with less than >180 hours. Only $69K with radios, transponder, leather, wing lockers and >other extras. A savings of $14K over a new ELSA. Also this particular >ELSA can be used for commercial flight training. > >www.MASPL.com for more info. > >Jim Pellien >Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes >www.MASPL.com >703-313-4818 >jim@sportsplanes.com > > >---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- >From: "Joe Scheibinger" >Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 12:43:02 -0600 > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Joe Scheibinger" > > > >Friends, > > > >If there is anyone that would like to sell their 601XL or HD project, >please > >call me on the toll free number below. I also have a friend in the >Indiana > >area that is looking for a 701 kit for sale. Thanks. > > > >800-416-8360 ext. 217 after 11:00 AM Central Time > >920-237-1450 after 6:00 PM Central Time > > > >Al > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Sent via the WebMail system at mail.pellien.com > > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:23 PM PST US From: Rory Davis Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ZAC Pneumatic Riveter - Questions --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rory Davis Dave VanLanen said the following on 2/2/2006 8:48 PM: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" > > I purchased the ZAC pneumatic riveter with my kit, and I am setting it up > for use. It did not come with much for instructions, so I have these > questions: > 1. The instructions suggest that I not install a hose coupler on the > riveter itself (i.e. into the regulator supplied with the riveter), due to > adding bulk, putting an unnecessary strain on the inlet threads, etc. > Instead, they suggest using a leader (whip) hose. Is this necessary? I > thought the riveter we used at the workshop had a coupling directly on the > riveter regulator. Hose coupler works for me. For the amount of actual time spent with the riveter I don't think having one on is a problem. 2. Next to the air inlet, it says "Oil" with an arrow pointing to the > inlet. No other instructions. What type of oil do I use? How much? How > frequently? My tech advisor says to use "3 in 1" oil. Couldn't find it at the local Home Despot, but they had a 4 oz container of "Pneumatic tool oil" for a couple of bucks that works fine. Just squirt a couple of drops in the air inlet when you're done for the day and squeeze the trigger a couple of times to get the oil in there. You'll know when you use too much when it sprays oil into the mandrel reservoir cup. > 3. If I use a leader hose, can I oil the tool through the end of the > hose? If not, I'd have to take the hose off each time. If I oil through > the hose end, will it even get to the tool, or will it be absorbed into the > hose? Just don't oil the hose you'll be using with your paint spray gun! ;) > 4. The instructions say I need a compressor with at least 1 HP and 12 > gallon capacity. I have a 4 HP compressor with an 11 gallon capacity, > developing 7.6 CFI at 40 PSI and 5.1 CFI at 90 PSI. Is this big enough? Yup. Turn your regulator down to where it reads around 40 psi when you pull the trigger on the riveter. More than that will make the tool bounce around too much and anything less than 40 (with the small adjustment regulator valve at the tool) will often not completely pull the rivet. Rory CH-701 empennage finishing tonight Lacombe, LA ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:23 PM PST US From: "David Plozay" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ZAC Pneumatic Riveter - Questions --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Plozay" Dave, I also have the pneumatic riveter from Zenith. Here's my experience with the questions you asked: 1. I installed a swivel-coupler on the end of my air hose and a corresponding (male) coupler on the riveter. That way I can benefit from the swivel with whatever I have attached to the air line (drill, die grinder, etc). 2. I use an in-line oiler set to about 2 drops per minute (when air is flowing). The oiler adds oil to the air that goes to the tool (riveter). Otherwise one or two drops of oil per session would suffice. Buy air-tool oil, many brand names exist; available in the air-tool aisle at Home Depot, etc. 3. If you don't want to use an in-line oiler, definitely use the swivel coupler (with quick connect fitting). That way disconnecting the air line to oil is easy and fast. 4. Your compressor will work fine for riveting. I set mine at 46 PSI. You'll definitely need a bigger compressor if you want to run an air drill or grinder. Also, my riveter had a disconcerting tendency for strong kick-back for the first 200 rivets or so (even after installing the pressure regulator on the riveter). I hope this helps, David Plozay CH701 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave VanLanen" Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 8:48 PM Subject: Zenith-List: ZAC Pneumatic Riveter - Questions > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" > > > I purchased the ZAC pneumatic riveter with my kit, and I am setting it up > for use. It did not come with much for instructions, so I have these > questions: > 1. The instructions suggest that I not install a hose coupler on the > riveter itself (i.e. into the regulator supplied with the riveter), due to > adding bulk, putting an unnecessary strain on the inlet threads, etc. > Instead, they suggest using a leader (whip) hose. Is this necessary? I > thought the riveter we used at the workshop had a coupling directly on the > riveter regulator. > 2. Next to the air inlet, it says "Oil" with an arrow pointing to the > inlet. No other instructions. What type of oil do I use? How much? How > frequently? > 3. If I use a leader hose, can I oil the tool through the end of the > hose? If not, I'd have to take the hose off each time. If I oil through > the hose end, will it even get to the tool, or will it be absorbed into > the > hose? > 4. The instructions say I need a compressor with at least 1 HP and 12 > gallon capacity. I have a 4 HP compressor with an 11 gallon capacity, > developing 7.6 CFI at 40 PSI and 5.1 CFI at 90 PSI. Is this big enough? > > Thanks, > Dave Van Lanen > Madison, WI > 601XL > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:47 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: wing kit? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz I opted for the aileron trim. I want to be able to fly hands-off both with and without a passenger in the other seat. I suspect the aileron trim is the only way (short of an autopilot) to do this. Paul XL wings At 02:09 PM 2/2/2006, you wrote: >I'm nearing the end of my tail kit and thinking about ordering my >wings. I'm looking for opinions about getting the aileron trim tab >option. How worthwhile is this? I don't know that I've even flown >anything with aileron trim.... It wouldn't hurt to save that money >for something else. > >Steve --- ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:26 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Discolored fuel From: "David X" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" The CH2000 has the same problem. The factory uses auto brake lines instead of aircraft quality lines. As a consequence, the lines must be replaced every 10 years. At first, I thought it was the gascolator, but even after I drain all the brown gas out, it comes back if I switch the fuel selector and drain some more. It seems to happen only when the plane sits for a week or more. The next time I had brown gas, I immediately cyphoned some from the fuel tank. It was blue, like it was supposed to be (AVGAS). This makes it pretty clear to me that the crud is coming from the lines. I don't know if Zenith is using the same lines in the CH601 kits that they are using in the CH2000 ... but if I had to bet, I'd bet yes. DO NOT ARCHIVE -------- do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=9265#9265 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:41:56 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: wing kit? From: "David X" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" It's very helpfull for two finger flying on a cross country. It helps reduce pilot fatigue and makes it easier to stay on course. I usually end up trimming it nearly all the way up until I burn off the left tank first ... if I'm the only one on board (the trim is on the left on my plane). After losing 60 or 80 pounds of fuel, I can reduce the trim (and drag). -------- do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=9268#9268 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:04 PM PST US From: "E&M Bima" Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Weld Repair to steel tube frame... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "E&M Bima" Wow, lots of "opinions out there". Let me answer this consisely and accurately. "AC 43.13-1B Part IV" Martin Bima 701STOL-Vair ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:01 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ZAC Pneumatic Riveter - Questions --> Zenith-List message posted by: Dave, just my opinion, but: a: connect it however you want. It's a heavy, tough tool and will work just fine no matter what the plumbing. b: Shoot some WD-40 into the hose, or gun. It'll run through the system in about two trigger squeezes. c: Try pulling some A-5 rivets. If it works, it works. d: Use it to hold down your plans on windy days, and go to Harbor Freight for one of their $35 specials. It's lighter, better balanced, and more comfortable to the hand. Just my opinion. Paul Rodriguez 601XL/Corvair Attaching the tailfeathers DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave VanLanen To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 8:48 PM Subject: Zenith-List: ZAC Pneumatic Riveter - Questions --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" > I purchased the ZAC pneumatic riveter with my kit, and I am setting it up for use. It did not come with much for instructions, so I have these questions: 1. The instructions suggest that I not install a hose coupler on the riveter itself (i.e. into the regulator supplied with the riveter), due to adding bulk, putting an unnecessary strain on the inlet threads, etc. Instead, they suggest using a leader (whip) hose. Is this necessary? I thought the riveter we used at the workshop had a coupling directly on the riveter regulator. 2. Next to the air inlet, it says "Oil" with an arrow pointing to the inlet. No other instructions. What type of oil do I use? How much? How frequently? 3. If I use a leader hose, can I oil the tool through the end of the hose? If not, I'd have to take the hose off each time. If I oil through the hose end, will it even get to the tool, or will it be absorbed into the hose? 4. The instructions say I need a compressor with at least 1 HP and 12 gallon capacity. I have a 4 HP compressor with an 11 gallon capacity, developing 7.6 CFI at 40 PSI and 5.1 CFI at 90 PSI. Is this big enough? Thanks, Dave Van Lanen Madison, WI 601XL ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 11:00:11 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: wing kit?. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower A wing leveler autopilot like the Navaid Devices will do the same, plus extras when connected to the handheld GPS.. http://www.navaid-devices.com/ I have one in our 701, Saludos Gary Gower. "Stephen R. Look" wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen R. Look" Howdy All, I'm nearing the end of my tail kit and thinking about ordering my wings. I'm looking for opinions about getting the aileron trim tab option. How worthwhile is this? I don't know that I've even flown anything with aileron trim.... It wouldn't hurt to save that money for something else. Steve Steve Look Monticello, IL 601XL - tail kit "Dogs have owners, Cats have staff" ---------------------------------