Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:13 AM - Re: 601 Canopy Latches and Towbar attachment (Hunt Malcolm)
2. 05:02 AM - Phoenix (Tommy Walker)
3. 05:12 AM - Re: 601 Canopy Latches and Towbar attachment (N5SL)
4. 06:30 AM - Re: upper fuse doubler fit (N5SL)
5. 07:13 AM - Re: 601 Canopy Latches and Towbar attachment (Hunt Malcolm)
6. 07:13 AM - Re: Corrosion Prevention: Alodine and Zinc Chromate: folow ups, pics and scotchbrite (Dan Morehouse)
7. 07:25 AM - Re: Phoenix (Charles Deiterich)
8. 07:26 AM - Re: green scotchbrite (BobTezyk)
9. 08:38 AM - Re: Re: green scotchbrite *** Please clarify for me*** (B Johnson)
10. 10:00 AM - Propeller Balancing (Jeffrey J Paris)
11. 10:37 AM - Re: Re: green scotchbrite *** Please clarify for me*** (Craig Moore)
12. 11:21 AM - Zinc chromate (Steve)
13. 11:43 AM - Re: Zinc chromate (Bill Howerton)
14. 12:26 PM - Re: Zinc chromate (Steve)
15. 01:32 PM - Re: Re: green scotchbrite *** Please clarify for me*** (B Johnson)
16. 01:55 PM - Re: Re: green scotchbrite *** Please clarify for me*** (Ron Butterfield)
17. 02:18 PM - Re: Zinc chromate (Zodie Rocket)
18. 02:18 PM - Re: Propeller Balancing (kevinbonds)
19. 02:34 PM - Local newspaper photo & article (Zed Smith)
20. 02:44 PM - Re: Propeller Balancing (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
21. 03:45 PM - Re: Propeller Balancing (doug kandle)
22. 04:16 PM - Re: Local newspaper photo & article (doug kandle)
23. 07:17 PM - Re: green scotchbrite (Dave VanLanen)
24. 07:54 PM - Re: Re: green scotchbrite (Mike Sinclair)
Message 1
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| Subject: | 601 Canopy Latches and Towbar attachment |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hunt Malcolm" <Malcolm.HUNT@networkrail.co.uk>
Scott
Thanks to you and all the others, had no chance in finding this one in
England!
On point that is not clear from the manual, is the lock welded to the
canopy frame? If not how is it fixed.
Once again thanks to you all.
Kind regards
Malcolm
CH601XL Plans Builder in England
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N5SL
Sent: 06 February 2006 16:20
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Canopy Latches and Towbar attachment
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Larry, Al, Trevor, Brandon, Neil and others:
Thanks for all the replies on and off-list about the
latches. I ordered them directly from Spaenaur and it
was $50 for both sides and a few extra strikers ($50US
was their minimum order). ZAC wants $370 for the pair
of assemblies.
Also, thanks for the lively discussion last week (or
the week before) on towbar attachments. I made one
last weekend with my little mill/lathe. It was a fun
project and I think it will work well. It gave me
something to do while my crankshaft is away.
Here's a photo:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/2_4_06_Towbar.JPG
Happy Building,
Scott Laughlin
601XL/Corvair
www.cooknwithgas.com
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland
> <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> *Scott,
>>
> SPAE-NAUR company, Toronto. They can be purchased
> from the Windsor
> >> >Factory Supply 519-966-2202. The part numbers
> are 099-031 for the left
> >hand
> >> >one and 099-030 for the right hand one. They
> cost $36.40 Canadian each.
>
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS
> *
Your attention is drawn to the fact that this email originated from a
source external to Network Rail.
***************************************************************************************************************
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nor may it be copied or disclosed to anyone who is
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please notify us by emailing the sender, and then
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Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
Listers,
Has anyone had contact with Hal Rozema of Phoenix, AZ? His 701 web site is
down and he hasn't posted anything on this list for some time now.
Regards,
Tommy Walker in Alabama
Do Not Archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | 601 Canopy Latches and Towbar attachment |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Malcolm:
I plan to weld it to the frame. Some modification to
the latch is required also from what I understand.
sl
--- Hunt Malcolm <Malcolm.HUNT@networkrail.co.uk>
wrote:
>
> On point that is not clear from the manual, is the
> lock welded to the
> canopy frame? If not how is it fixed.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: upper fuse doubler fit |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
John:
I built my parts to the plans and the doublers fit
almost perfect with a little overhang outside of the
side skins (maybe a millimeter or so) - the opposite
of your situation. If I were in your shoes, I would
just make another doubler that's wider on the top and
trim it to fit after drilling and cleco-ing. I used a
file for a nice fit and I'm happy with the looks. I
didn't take a photo of this, but found it in another
shot here:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_15_05_Seats.JPG
Did ZAC volunteer to send you a wider doubler?
Scott Laughlin
Wiring radio and intercom
--- john butterfield <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield
> <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
>
> hi list
>
> i am installing the upper fuse longeron doublers and
> am having trouble with the fit. When put on, at the
> shoulder position the longerons extend about 1/2
> inch
> outboard of the doubler.
Message 5
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| Subject: | 601 Canopy Latches and Towbar attachment |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hunt Malcolm" <Malcolm.HUNT@networkrail.co.uk>
Many thanks,
I have had a look at Eberhars's website
www.eberhardcanada.com/slam.3.htm for some different angles.
Malcolm
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N5SL
Sent: 07 February 2006 13:11
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Canopy Latches and Towbar attachment
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Malcolm:
I plan to weld it to the frame. Some modification to
the latch is required also from what I understand.
sl
--- Hunt Malcolm <Malcolm.HUNT@networkrail.co.uk>
wrote:
>
> On point that is not clear from the manual, is the
> lock welded to the
> canopy frame? If not how is it fixed.
Your attention is drawn to the fact that this email originated from a
source external to Network Rail.
***************************************************************************************************************
The content of this email (and any attachment) is confidential. It may also be
legally privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure.
This email should not be used by anyone who is not an original intended recipient,
nor may it be copied or disclosed to anyone who is
not an original intended recipient. If you have received this email by mistake
please notify us by emailing the sender, and then
delete the email and any copies from your system.
Liability cannot be accepted for statements made which are clearly the senders
own and not made on behalf of Network Rail.
***************************************************************************************************************
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Prevention: Alodine and Zinc Chromate: folow |
ups, pics and scotchbrite
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Dan Morehouse <messydeer@yahoo.com>
Thanks everybody for being thankful. I've taken so much from this group over the
past several months, so it's nice to add something.
I'll be asking a few follow up questions to these guys in a little while, so
please post any you have. I'll ask about the stain 'shadow' that remains or recurrs.
I was told it's fine to paint over, but I will double check to make sure
it would be nothing but a minor cosmetic defect.
I hit the aluminum with a Blendes drum and also with Alumiprep and scotchbrite
for the first time last night. The Alumiprep didn't work so-so. I used a GREEN
scotchbrite and maybe 20# hand pressure after mixing the Alumiprep 1:2, the
highest suggested mix ratio. Did that after a 6-8 minute dwell time.
The Blendex drum on an angle grinder by itself worked much better. It looked
like that stain shadow was left after an initial pass using 10-20# pressure on
the grinder. It was much shinier and the shadow was only noticeable at certain
reflective angles. I'm not sure this is what Dr. Dean talked about or not. I
was able to get rid of it with a second pass and twice as much pressure. If this
will be the interior side, I might not even have to do that. One of my questions
I'll ask.
I emailed a few pics of this to the list. I'm told it may take a few days to
post and the group will be notified.
Finally, it seems there's a debate on the grade of scotchbrite to be used. I'm
using green and have heard others say maroon is better. Is that a finer or coarser
grade?
Cheers,
Dan
---------------------------------
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Deiterich" <cfd@thegateway.net>
Hal had the flu around the first of the year and was in the hospital but
was supposed to go home. I have not heard anything since then.
Chuck D.
N701TX
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
>
> Listers,
>
> Has anyone had contact with Hal Rozema of Phoenix, AZ? His 701 web site
> is
> down and he hasn't posted anything on this list for some time now.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tommy Walker in Alabama
> Do Not Archive
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: green scotchbrite |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "BobTezyk" <bob@eaglesnestestates.org>
3M publishes several application documents specifically for use in aircraft. I
have attached them to this message in the BBS forum. Those of you who get the
email distribution will have to go there to get them.
Hope this helps.
Bob Tezyk
Getting Hangar ready to build a 601XL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10584#10584
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/sbforacmfg_199.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/sbforacmaint_105.pdf
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: green scotchbrite *** Please clarify for me*** |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" <bjohnson@satx.rr.com>
Can someone just cut to the chase and tell me, the 6061t-6 parts on my Sonex
that I have buffed with green scotchbright pad, (it says "type S" on the pad
I cannot read the numbers though) Are those parts trash now??? How will it
screw it up, and is there anything I can do to fix it???? I'm about to
finish riveting the layers of my spar together which were scuffed with this
pad, then painted with NAPA self etching primer....
The 2 documents really say nothing about the above issue....
Thanks!
-Bruce Johnson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobTezyk
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 9:26 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: green scotchbrite
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "BobTezyk" <bob@eaglesnestestates.org>
3M publishes several application documents specifically for use in aircraft.
I have attached them to this message in the BBS forum. Those of you who get
the email distribution will have to go there to get them.
Hope this helps.
Bob Tezyk
Getting Hangar ready to build a 601XL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10584#10584
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/sbforacmfg_199.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/sbforacmaint_105.pdf
--
--
Message 10
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| Subject: | Propeller Balancing |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey J Paris" <jeffrey-j-paris@excite.com>
Guru's of the Zenith List,
I've Googled without much luck, but does anyone have an inexpensive way, directions,
instructions to balance ones' wooden propeller? I'm curious to see what
has to be said?
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Jeff Paris
N196ZP CH601XL Jabiru 3300
45 hours in the air and loving every minute of it!!!!
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: green scotchbrite *** Please clarify for me*** |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Moore <moorecomp@yahoo.com>
Bruce,
I have poured through the 3M website, and it appears
that the green pads are "scrubbing pads" and the
maroon pads are "abrasive pads". The 7447 maroon pads
are coated with aluminum oxide abrasive and cut the
same as aluminum oxide "sandpaper". The green pads are
not coated and are simply synthetic fiber and are for
cleaning, like a common dish scrubber. That would
explain why Gary had so much "green dust". I have two
links to the 3M website, for the 2 different pads.
Green Scrubbing Pads - http://tinyurl.com/byss3
Maroon Abrasive Pads - http://tinyurl.com/7lnpr
When I worked for a large regional airline, we only
used the 7447 pads.
Hope this clears it up. You should be fine.
Craig Moore
A&P
701 Builder wannabe
--- B Johnson <bjohnson@satx.rr.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson"
> <bjohnson@satx.rr.com>
>
> Can someone just cut to the chase and tell me, the
> 6061t-6 parts on my Sonex
> that I have buffed with green scotchbright pad, (it
> says "type S" on the pad
> I cannot read the numbers though) Are those parts
> trash now??? How will it
> screw it up, and is there anything I can do to fix
> it???? I'm about to
> finish riveting the layers of my spar together which
> were scuffed with this
> pad, then painted with NAPA self etching primer....
>
> The 2 documents really say nothing about the above
> issue....
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Bruce Johnson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of BobTezyk
> Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 9:26 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: green scotchbrite
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "BobTezyk"
> <bob@eaglesnestestates.org>
>
> 3M publishes several application documents
> specifically for use in aircraft.
> I have attached them to this message in the BBS
> forum. Those of you who get
> the email distribution will have to go there to get
> them.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Bob Tezyk
> Getting Hangar ready to build a 601XL
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10584#10584
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
>
http://forums.matronics.com//files/sbforacmfg_199.pdf
>
http://forums.matronics.com//files/sbforacmaint_105.pdf
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve" <hilander@charter.net>
Is there a difference between the zinc chromte marine vs aviation zinc chromate.
Can the marine be used for corroion protection for my 701 rudder.
Steve
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Zinc chromate |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" <bill@howerton.com>
I'm not really sure about the paint chemistry, but if you use it, you'll
have to fly wearing a skipper's hat; begin all radio calls with "Ahoy!";
and you'll have to refer to your co-pilot as your "first mate"
...sorry, couldn't resist ;)
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Zinc chromate
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 13:19:07 -0600
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve"
Is there a difference between the zinc chromte marine vs aviation
zinc
chromate. Can the marine be used for corroion protection for my 701
rudder.
Steve
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Zinc chromate |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve" <hilander@charter.net>
Bill,
With my level of frustration at this point with the anti-corrosion dilema
ie; zinc chromate, zinc oxide, napa self-etching, etcetera etcetera,
etcetera, and little humurous interjection is probably just what the doctor
ordered.
By the way "Ahoy" and "matey" are fine by me as long as I can find a
solution that works.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Howerton" <bill@Howerton.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zinc chromate
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" <bill@howerton.com>
>
> I'm not really sure about the paint chemistry, but if you use it, you'll
> have to fly wearing a skipper's hat; begin all radio calls with "Ahoy!";
> and you'll have to refer to your co-pilot as your "first mate"
>
> ...sorry, couldn't resist ;)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steve
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Zinc chromate
> Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 13:19:07 -0600
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve"
>
> Is there a difference between the zinc chromte marine vs aviation
> zinc
> chromate. Can the marine be used for corroion protection for my 701
> rudder.
>
> Steve
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: green scotchbrite *** Please clarify for me*** |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" <bjohnson@satx.rr.com>
A bit more research I cannot find my exact Scotchbrite on the 3m website, I
got it from a surplus place so God knows if it's still in existence, but the
original post referenced from the "luscomb association" or sum such says
"type s no good" and that's what I actually have. It's more of a
gray-green.. it very well could be gray, in which case I think the abrasive
is "silicon carbide"...
It is definitely NOT the green scrubby clean you sink thing..
K, now I get to research silicon carbide.... or relax and have a homebrew...
Hrm.. have to think on that one.
-Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Moore
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 12:35 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: green scotchbrite *** Please clarify for me***
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Moore <moorecomp@yahoo.com>
Bruce,
I have poured through the 3M website, and it appears
that the green pads are "scrubbing pads" and the
maroon pads are "abrasive pads". The 7447 maroon pads
are coated with aluminum oxide abrasive and cut the
same as aluminum oxide "sandpaper". The green pads are
not coated and are simply synthetic fiber and are for
cleaning, like a common dish scrubber. That would
explain why Gary had so much "green dust". I have two
links to the 3M website, for the 2 different pads.
Green Scrubbing Pads - http://tinyurl.com/byss3
Maroon Abrasive Pads - http://tinyurl.com/7lnpr
When I worked for a large regional airline, we only
used the 7447 pads.
Hope this clears it up. You should be fine.
Craig Moore
A&P
701 Builder wannabe
--- B Johnson <bjohnson@satx.rr.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson"
> <bjohnson@satx.rr.com>
>
> Can someone just cut to the chase and tell me, the
> 6061t-6 parts on my Sonex
> that I have buffed with green scotchbright pad, (it
> says "type S" on the pad
> I cannot read the numbers though) Are those parts
> trash now??? How will it
> screw it up, and is there anything I can do to fix
> it???? I'm about to
> finish riveting the layers of my spar together which
> were scuffed with this
> pad, then painted with NAPA self etching primer....
>
> The 2 documents really say nothing about the above
> issue....
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Bruce Johnson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of BobTezyk
> Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 9:26 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: green scotchbrite
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "BobTezyk"
> <bob@eaglesnestestates.org>
>
> 3M publishes several application documents
> specifically for use in aircraft.
> I have attached them to this message in the BBS
> forum. Those of you who get
> the email distribution will have to go there to get
> them.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Bob Tezyk
> Getting Hangar ready to build a 601XL
>
--
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: green scotchbrite *** Please clarify for me*** |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ron Butterfield <rbutterfield@mebtel.net>
me***
At 01:35 PM 2/7/06, Craig Moore wrote:
>The 7447 maroon pads are coated with aluminum oxide abrasive and cut
>the same as aluminum oxide "sandpaper".
And if someone thinks these are super-pricey aviation-only items, I
just got an MSC flyer ( www.mscdirect.com ), and they have a whole
section of these pads, in various compounds. The 7447 (part #
AN03356540) are the least expensive, at $0.84 each in quantities of
10 or more. Just the color does not tell you exactly what a pad is
for; you need the actual number which you can check against at the 3M
site. There is also an 8447, same color size and grit, but which
claims "50% greater life than conventional maroon pads" and is
perforated to be torn in half. (part # AN03356573, $1.03 >10)
>
Regards,
RonB
Message 17
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
By the way "Ahoy" and "matey" are fine by me as long as I can find a
solution that works.
Steve
-----------------
Also let's not have any mention of swabbing the poop-deck!!!!
Cdngoose
Sorry guys it has been a very long day
Do not archive
--
Message 18
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| Subject: | Propeller Balancing |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Statically or dynamically? A friend of mine dynamically balanced his prop
recently. He paid a guy about $150 to hook it up to a machine; run it up to
cruise speed; and balance it there. Man does it fly smoother now! I watched
the whole process and asked questions. Very cool. I do not often here anyone
talk about dynamically balancing a prop. Seems like one of those things that
people regard as voodoo or snake-oil or something. Also talk of indexing
ones prop to the piston closest to it, so that the weight of the blades
doesn't coincide with the force of the combustion event (I am not completely
clear on this myself, just seen some valid arguments for doing so) is not
often mentioned. I will be giving these things more thought as I get closer.
Seems like a good idea to index then dyn. Balance. FWIW
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey J Paris
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 11:56 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Propeller Balancing
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey J Paris"
<jeffrey-j-paris@excite.com>
Guru's of the Zenith List,
I've Googled without much luck, but does anyone have an inexpensive way,
directions, instructions to balance ones' wooden propeller? I'm curious to
see what has to be said?
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Jeff Paris
N196ZP CH601XL Jabiru 3300
45 hours in the air and loving every minute of it!!!!
Message 19
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| Subject: | Local newspaper photo & article |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
Believe It Or Don't!
Local afternoon scandal sheet ran a photo of Steve Fossett (AP photo) walking away
from his "Virgin Atlantic Global Flyer".
Registration in the picture shows N277SF. FAA data indicates Rotax powerplant.
News article (by Mike Schneider of the AP) says he has 18,000 (eighteen thousand)
pounds of fuel and his intention is to fly at 45,000 feet (flt lev 450).
Did the writer possibly mean to say that the runway at the Cape was 18,000 feet
long and cruise altitude would be 4500? Is this a new, secret, Rotax engine?
Did I just miss something here?
Is this the same reporter who did the 1977 "C-172 catches up with and runs down
a PSA 727 at San Diego" story?
do not archive, for I do not know how to calculate fuel burn on this one.
Okay....point out that today is actually April 1st.
Zed/701/R912/90+%/less than nine tons
see page 8, www.theparisnews.com
Message 20
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| Subject: | Propeller Balancing |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Indexing the prop I simply don't buy...If the prop is balanced it is
already balanced relative to istelf. It should make no difference how it
is indexed.
Dynamically balancing does make make a HUGE difference that I can vouch
for personally.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinbonds
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 2:17 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Propeller Balancing
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Statically or dynamically? A friend of mine dynamically balanced his
prop recently. He paid a guy about $150 to hook it up to a machine; run
it up to cruise speed; and balance it there. Man does it fly smoother
now! I watched the whole process and asked questions. Very cool. I do
not often here anyone talk about dynamically balancing a prop. Seems
like one of those things that people regard as voodoo or snake-oil or
something. Also talk of indexing ones prop to the piston closest to it,
so that the weight of the blades doesn't coincide with the force of the
combustion event (I am not completely clear on this myself, just seen
some valid arguments for doing so) is not often mentioned. I will be
giving these things more thought as I get closer.
Seems like a good idea to index then dyn. Balance. FWIW
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey J
Paris
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 11:56 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Propeller Balancing
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey J Paris"
<jeffrey-j-paris@excite.com>
Guru's of the Zenith List,
I've Googled without much luck, but does anyone have an inexpensive way,
directions, instructions to balance ones' wooden propeller? I'm curious
to see what has to be said?
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Jeff Paris
N196ZP CH601XL Jabiru 3300
45 hours in the air and loving every minute of it!!!!
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Propeller Balancing |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: doug kandle <d_kandle@velocitus.net>
I too have had very good results from dynamic balancing. Even after
a new 72", balanced at the factory, three blade prop had been
installed on an IO-520, the dynamic balancing still made quite a difference.
As for indexing. A few years ago I had a long talk with one of the
engineers at Macauley. I wanted to know why a particular prop could
be used on another aircraft but not on mine even though the two used
the same engine. What I came away with from that discussion was a
much better appreciation of how much complex engineering goes into
propeller design. The entire engine, prop, and engine mounting
structure must be considered. It is a dynamic system and resonances
are an important component. The prop flexes, the engine mounts move,
and the forces on the system are impulsive. This all leads to a very
complicated system. This is one area that it is best not to do much
experimenting and just go with the propeller manufacturers
recommendations. I have been told that on some prop-engine-mounting
combinations that the orientation of the propeller relative to the
crank shaft is critical to avoid resonance problems.
At 03:41 PM 2/7/2006, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
><frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>Indexing the prop I simply don't buy...If the prop is balanced it is
>already balanced relative to istelf. It should make no difference how it
>is indexed.
>
>Dynamically balancing does make make a HUGE difference that I can vouch
>for personally.
>
>Frank
>
>Do not archive
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinbonds
>Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 2:17 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Propeller Balancing
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
>
>Statically or dynamically? A friend of mine dynamically balanced his
>prop recently. He paid a guy about $150 to hook it up to a machine; run
>it up to cruise speed; and balance it there. Man does it fly smoother
>now! I watched the whole process and asked questions. Very cool. I do
>not often here anyone talk about dynamically balancing a prop. Seems
>like one of those things that people regard as voodoo or snake-oil or
>something. Also talk of indexing ones prop to the piston closest to it,
>so that the weight of the blades doesn't coincide with the force of the
>combustion event (I am not completely clear on this myself, just seen
>some valid arguments for doing so) is not often mentioned. I will be
>giving these things more thought as I get closer.
>Seems like a good idea to index then dyn. Balance. FWIW
>
>Kevin Bonds
>
>Nashville TN
>
>601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
>
>Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
>
>http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
>
>
>do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey J
>Paris
>Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 11:56 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Propeller Balancing
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey J Paris"
><jeffrey-j-paris@excite.com>
>
>
>Guru's of the Zenith List,
>
>I've Googled without much luck, but does anyone have an inexpensive way,
>directions, instructions to balance ones' wooden propeller? I'm curious
>to see what has to be said?
>
>Thank you for your time and consideration.
>
>Jeff Paris
>N196ZP CH601XL Jabiru 3300
>45 hours in the air and loving every minute of it!!!!
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Local newspaper photo & article |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: doug kandle <d_kandle@velocitus.net>
You must have typed in the wrong N-number. I get the correct info on N277SF (
assigned/Registered Aircraft
Aircraft Description
Serial Number 001 Type Registration Corporation
Manufacturer Name SCALED COMPOSITES LLC Certificate Issue Date 02/04/2005
Model 311 Status Valid
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine Type Engine Reciprocating
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 50541023
MFR Year 2003 Fractional Owner NO
DO NOT ARCHIVE
At 03:31 PM 2/7/2006, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
>
>Believe It Or Don't!
>
>Local afternoon scandal sheet ran a photo of Steve Fossett (AP
>photo) walking away from his "Virgin Atlantic Global Flyer".
>
>Registration in the picture shows N277SF. FAA data indicates Rotax
>powerplant.
>
>News article (by Mike Schneider of the AP) says he has 18,000
>(eighteen thousand) pounds of fuel and his intention is to fly at
>45,000 feet (flt lev 450).
>
>Did the writer possibly mean to say that the runway at the Cape was
>18,000 feet long and cruise altitude would be 4500? Is this a new,
>secret, Rotax engine? Did I just miss something here?
>
>Is this the same reporter who did the 1977 "C-172 catches up with
>and runs down a PSA 727 at San Diego" story?
>
>do not archive, for I do not know how to calculate fuel burn on this one.
>
>Okay....point out that today is actually April 1st.
>
>Zed/701/R912/90+%/less than nine tons
>
>see page 8, www.theparisnews.com
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: green scotchbrite |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
Bryan,
So are you saying that the "green stuff" is OK? I purchased the green
stuff, but could not find a part number on the product, so I don't know if I
got part 7447+ or not. Since I haven't started building yet, I guess I'd
like to know for sure if it is OK to use. I haven't seen any red stuff -
wouldn't even know where to get that.
Thanks,
Dave
Do not archive
Time: 06:10:02 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: green scotchbrite
From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
The 3M MSDS sheet for product P/N 7447+ shows that it uses an aluminum oxide
abrasive so it should be correct for use on aluminum. I guess you can't tell
what abrasive is used in the product by its color.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: green scotchbrite |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair@att.net>
Thilo
Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind@gmx.net>
> >
> > Green dust??? Sounds, like you are using the green Scotchbrite. No good for
> > aluminum. Use only the darl red stuff.
Guess that since you kinda got this started, can you tell us where you got your
reference as to the suitability of red vs. green? I have enjoyed the discussion
and
it is quite a bit late for me since I have mine already painted. I did use a
solvent product called Final Kleen and a tack rag over all surfaces after using
the
green Scotch Brite, and I do believe I eliminated all the "green dust" before
primer coats. Seems that there are a couple of opinions as to red or green, but
so
far nothing that really backs up one or the other. As I understand so far, green
should clean the surface by scuffing, and red is more of an abrasive. For myself
I
think I would use the red only when dealing with a surface that has been previously
painted and you are in the process of prepping it for new paint. And also if
dealing with an aircraft that has a thicker skin than the typical Zenith aircraft
(due to the abrasive nature of the red). But since I've been wrong at least once
before (hate to admit that though, and ain't gonna say when), am open to any
suggestions that will help our sport be safer. And did I say I've enjoyed this
topic? Subjects like this keep the list interesting.
Mike Sinclair N701TD
Dave VanLanen wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Bryan,
>
> So are you saying that the "green stuff" is OK? I purchased the green
> stuff, but could not find a part number on the product, so I don't know if I
> got part 7447+ or not. Since I haven't started building yet, I guess I'd
> like to know for sure if it is OK to use. I haven't seen any red stuff -
> wouldn't even know where to get that.
>
> Thanks,
> Dave
>
> Do not archive
>
> Time: 06:10:02 PM PST US
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: green scotchbrite
> From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
>
> The 3M MSDS sheet for product P/N 7447+ shows that it uses an aluminum oxide
> abrasive so it should be correct for use on aluminum. I guess you can't tell
> what abrasive is used in the product by its color.
>
> --
> Bryan Martin
> N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
> do not archive.
>
>
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